Do i need to apologize for rejecting Ishmael's Shri Kalki claim?

[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , " Ishmael Abraham "

<ishmael35a> wrote:

>

> Dear Jagbir,

>

> I commend your bravery brother on this post. It is the reality of

> my existence since being conveyed through the celestial Shri

> Virgin over 4 1/2 years ago. I return but not with anything new,

> as there is nothing new under the sun, all is repackaged.

>

> A few comments though are in order. Not very long ago you raised a

> stinky over our Brother Furat's attempt to post the same

> literature. You tried to make him out as the crazy one, who needed

> help. I held my tongue, I have the memory of the elephant..so i

> know there is a mending of the fences in order here. Something

> called an apology i believe.

>

> This is indeed the future for Sahaja Yogis who are fearless and do

> not run away when She comes for you..the alternative is some thing

> like what happened to Daphne..being pursued by a presense as great

> as a mountain.

>

> Regards,

> Ishmael

>

 

To all SYs of this forum,

 

Since late 2002 Ishmael has been trying to claim himself to be Shri

Kalki, and his wife a reincarnation of lady Magdalene. Some SYs have

believed him and now there is a small sect around him, the same way

there was a small group of SYs around the false prophet SDM in the

mid 1980s. i believe that if no action is taken we SYs will one day

face a cult led by Ishmael claiming himself to be Shri Kalki.

 

Two years ago i tried to reason with him but to no avail; he just

wanted me to confirm that he is Shri Kalki. Naturally i rejected him

as politely as possible so as not to hurt him because i remember how

another Kalki imposter in 1996 bawled and stomped around heartbroken

when i told him that there was something wrong with him mentally,

and that he was definitely no Kalki.

 

Below are my emails to play down the issue, hoping that Ishmael will

come tohis senses and forget the whole issue:

 

Ishmael Abraham <ishmael35a wrote:

 

Dear Jagbir,

 

Thanks for the wisdom of your heart.

It is true enough what you say. My goal in this life

is to put on, on this earth, the body i wore in

heaven. I may have to wait till my life in this body

is finished, but i will somehow exist here for the

next 800 years or so..She has said this to me. Exactly

867 she said from the birth. I cant say what form ,

but the only one i could bear for so long is the

celestial one.

This is what i hold as a goal, to work towards every

day. The rest of my life is just to support this.

 

Love to you,

Ishmael

 

 

 

Dear Ishmael,

 

Thank you for the reply but from your answers now i have more

questions as something is just not right regarding your Kalki claim:

 

1) What exactly did Shri Mataji tell you regarding Shri Kalki?

 

2) Why is this extremely secret information allowed to be available?

That is why i told you that the Divine cannot sanction such a

frightening announcement when there is absolutely no reason for

doing so - 99.99% of the world has absolutely no knowledge that the

Adi Shakti is on Earth to announce the Last Judgment and

Resurrection! Yet the emergence of Shri Kalki is being leaked.

Ishmael, it just does not make sense to me as i know that the Divine

just does not act this way!

 

3) Shri Kalki is supposed to just come and kill, and will not be

born as a human being on Earth. Your present position does not fit

this reality. Can you explain please?

 

You told me that " Yes i have a plan in motion to address Shri

Mataji, it should be a short time before this is done. " i did not

mean the physical Shri Mataji but the One within. Any attempt to

address the physical Shri Mataji will only make matters worse as She

has made it clear that no one can claim to be Shri Kalki. Ishmael, i

very strongly advise you not to do so. Maybe 800 years from now

things may be different but to do so at present is fraught with

danger and damnation. Please do not proceed ............ and also do

not talk about Shri Kalki anymore. This is an extremely dangerous

Divine personality who will be the Man on the White Horse. i know

that He will be none other that Lord Jesus Christ.

 

 

jagbir

 

------------

 

Sun, 2 Nov 2003 17:43:40 -0800 (PST)

" Ishmael Abraham " <ishmael35a

Re: your post

" jagbir singh " <adishakti_org

 

 

Dear Jagbir,

 

Let me make one or two things clear before i

continue. a.) I dont owe you anything. b.) be careful

what you try to tell me to do. I do know it comes from

your heart, so i am only seeing my concerned brother.

 

> 1) What exactly did Shri Mataji tell you regarding

> Shri Kalki?

 

If you still have the journal i sent you read the part

about the faces of the divine. replace the name

kartekiya. because jesus+kartekiya=kalki. I posses the

memories of my lives, i dont need to explain them.

 

 

> 2) Why is this extremely secret information allowed

> to be available?

I will only say as in my post, a warning. I posted for

your reflection, to stop you destroying your

vishuddhi. You deserve the best chance also. I have

watched, directed, supported and protected this group,

cringing with disgust at some of the behaviour

exhibited by SY's.

 

> 3) Shri Kalki is supposed to just come and kill, and

> will not be born as a human being on Earth. Your

> present position does not fit this reality. Can you

> explain please?

 

I am not going to explain the actions of God, when the

Goddess if finished with the pheonix, she sets it off,

it acts on it own, with the authority of God. When i

begin my work, the bulk of SY's unfortunately may be

the last to realize. It puts a new twist on first will

be last...though some sit in Nirvikalpa, that is not

the end...it is like a waiting room for the ultimate

journey.

 

Normally i am quite used to my agnya lighting up with

thousands of needles of fire, they flow down the sides

of the face. This is an aspect of shri agni (needles

of fire). The first day of Diwali the whole head lit

in a wave of this light and it sustained itself quite

nicely.

 

I have gone out of my way to satisfy your curiousity.

I have little to add. Except maybe remind you again,

God knows your books, he is not bound by them as you

seem to be.

 

Regards my Brother,

Love

Ishmael

 

--

 

Sun, 2 Nov 2003 20:14:42 -0800 (PST)

" Ishmael Abraham " <ishmael35a

Re: your post

" jagbir singh " <adishakti_org

 

 

Dear Jagbir,

 

I only wish to say Shri Mataji and I are in complete

accord with each other. She said to me upon our first

meeting many years ago in the flesh, " I know all about

you, THEY have told me everything, all about you " .

 

I of course did not know all about anything at that

time.

 

Ishmael

 

--------------

 

 

A few months later in 2003 Ishmael took offence at my posting an

article on the Kalki Avatar. i asked him publicly why he felt that

way and i realized that he still had not given up on his Shri Kalki:

 

" Ishmael,

 

You seem to be mighty miffed about what Shri Mataji may have said

about Kalki, which i am in no position to accept or deny. Since you

seem to be cocksure and know the reason for taking offence at Shri

Mataji's private talk, please have the guts to explain to those like

me who do not take such temper tantrums lightly. .............

especially if they are against Shri Mataji. i am sure members of

this forum are shocked by your arrogance and may want some answers.

Please clear your chest once and for all. "

 

 

jagbir

 

PS: Furat, i am still working on your previous posting and will

reply soon.

 

shriadishakti/message/1543

 

 

That was when Furat, as a devotee of Ishmael, joined to protect his

Lord and warned me against speaking against Ishmael;

 

 

" What a coward I am! I feel terribly ashamed. The Divine had arranged

the whole situation, but I chickened out at first. (I hope the

Deities will forgive me, but I do not see another arrangement like

this coming again.) And so though it's quite late, I must speak

now anyway… "

 

Jagbir,

 

As an old friend in armour, I am warning you: now is the time to

start controlling ourselves; please, be_very_careful as to what you

say from now on!

 

 

----------------

 

 

" As Sahaja Yogis we must know that certain events and coincidences

are beyond our own making. In fact Shri Mataji teaches that

EVERYTHING is done by Paramchaitanya. How many times before have you

overreacted and then apologised for it? This will be no exception.

 

1. Do not put words in Sahajis' mouths;

2. Do not put words in Shri Mataji's mouth.

3. Know, if a children's tale with innocent intentions can make

you

angry like that King Mercer, there must be something wrong with you.

 

a). You know perfectly well that there is enough room for both kinds

of interpretations;

b). Your reaction, especially if it is shared by many (which is not

the case), clearly implies that which we have not been admitting to:

namely that there is a fear of this subject. No, we are TERRIFIED of

it! That is your soft spot, that was your reaction!

 

So why do we keep bringing it up then? And why did you have to jump

like this? Now we cannot avoid it anymore, as I had hoped at first,

but simply have to face it.

 

So, Jagbir, I must ask you now: please, come out and admit to the

above two points of (a) and (b). You have to do it now...

 

And again, Jagbirji, for old time's sake, I am reinforcing the

above warning, counting on your discretion. "

 

f

 

 

PS: I do not mind the other discussion -- draft it, as we will return

to it when it's time.

 

shriadishakti/message/1548

 

 

-----------------

 

 

i then tried to get the help of Ivan and Balwinder to stop Furat

before he made a fool of himself. This is because all of us were the

team that finally put an end to Simon's forum. i did not want a

friend to suffer ridicule and embarrassment.

 

There was no response from Ivan but Balwinder did pursue the matter

further with Furat before contacting me. It was something that i

never expected, and that Ishmael had brainwashed him good. (i know

Ishmael has a few more followers who submit to his Kalki authority.)

 

This is the correspondence between Balwinder and Furat:

 

_______________

 

 

Furat: Thank you, Balwinder, for your softness as usual.

 

Let me assure I never asked anything of the kind Jagbir by now has

almost managed to accuse me of.

 

Balwinder: Can you be specific please Furat?It is best we all be

specific at this juncture to avoid any further misundersatndings.

 

Furat: And so one thing I do not enjoy at all is prosetylising. I am

requesting this more for your own as well as the Collective's sake,

so that the differences may cease.

 

Balwinder: I am lost as to what you are trying to say Furat.I

thought we are all SYs here having a discussion

 

Furat: My question, no matter how " out-of-place " it appears, has

been one and one only: " Who is Ishmael " .

 

Balwinder:

The question to me is innocent.The problem starts when the question

of knowing what Ishmael has told Jagbir (the sexual intercourse

part).

 

Furat: I know He is who He is, it's just I'm dreaming of the day I

wouldn't need to feel I must forever be hiding something and not be

able to speak about certain issues.

 

But if my Patron Saint is being actively discredeted, that is when I

am compelled to act with full force at hand. Otherwise I am not

worthy this honour. And one cannot patronise innocence, even less if

it has its arms open towards us, not judging back, and being

forgiving...

 

Balwinder:

I admire with your loyalty to your belief Furat.Who is actively

discrediting Ishamel?

 

 

Furat: I've been granted all these boons beyond my imaginantion. And

this is my way of making a statement to the Divine that I have been

deserving of this. I too must stand and proclaim the Truth, as I

know it.

 

Balwinder:

Discretion must go hand in hand with proclaiming the Truth.In this

case you may be the only one " knowing this truth " .

Jagbir has a lot of resistance even from some SYs themselves just to

believe the meditative experiences of his kids.

Is the question about " who is Ishmael " for your own conviction only?

The other more important question which went unanswered the last

time is that " how will the question and then the answer benefit SY? "

 

Furat: I know Shri Mataji knows I am sincere. And She will most

certainly find a way to respond that would not disturb any of our

own respective understandings, protect Jagbir and at the same time

clear Ishamel's name. Who is a saint, who is an incarnation, and who

as such would never lie and has no ego. (What happened to our

Vibratory Awareness part thing BTW? As he has said, he is a dead

man, i.e. with a body transforming into Paramchaitanya; see the ibn

Arabi bit I posted.)

 

Balwinder:

Are you talking about clearing Ishmael's name on the forum or in

North America?

How will Jagbir's children question help in clearing the name when

1)Mother could just say he is a normal SY

2)SYs still have doubts about the childrens' experiences

 

 

Furat: But as I've said before he has never explicitly told me

anything other than what I would ask him. And this has not been one

of the questions. I find it somehow more rude to ask him upfront

than to ask Mother. It's true.

 

Balwinder:Frankly I am suprised.

 

 

Furat: The reason why nasty things have been said about Lord

Krishna's relationship with women

 

Balwinder:

I actually made the reference from Mother's talk that Krishna had

16,000 wifes but he never talked/boasted about his sexual experience

with them.

 

 

Furat: So to answer your qurestion, Brother Balwinder, Ishmael

having sexual intercourse with the Goddess is a misunderstanding on

my brother Jagbir's part from A to Z.

 

Balwinder:

IMO Jagbir must clear the air on this as soon as possible

(immediately).

 

Furat: I doubt letting you read that journal itself is a good idea

for now. It must be approached with reverance and a desire to learn

about death in life rather than clearing somebody's doubts. We will

be reading it anyway when we've all humbled ourselves just a little

more in due time.

 

Balwinder:

The idea to want to read it never even crossed my mind and since you

mentioned, it can wait because I am still catching up on Shree

Mataji's talks alone.

 

Furat: So when I dragged you in, brother Balwinder, it was because I

knew you would try to act wisely and prevent your elder brother from

proceeding with what clearly appears to be a tragic fooloshness,

when he would seek your regular counsel.

 

Balwinder:

He hardly seeks my counsel and I really would like to be able to

understand the tragic fooloishness part.

 

Furat: But it would be a tragedy if it were not to happen! So it was

better you formulated those classically deadly objections of yours

to me personally than providing Jagbirji with an excuse for a quick

and easy way out.

 

Balwinder:

Like I said I " thought " I could contribute.

 

Furat: I also think you would agree with me that as it is it would

still be much better for this situation to be resolved now than in

five years from now on... Or this way than the painful official way.

 

Balwinder:

Personally the earlier the better but whether going thru the kids at

this juncture is a big question mark ............ in the near future

thru them would be a better idea IMO.

 

Furat: And so if Mother's answer is: " he's an SY brother " , then it

simply means we are not meant to draw ANY sort of conclusions as

well as that we try to keep friendly relations. But it would also

mean he's not guilty as charged... ;-

 

Balwinder:

Can I presume the charge is the disgusting " claim to having sexual

intercourse " with SM? I would still like Jagbir to shed some light

on this claim first - I know it is difficult for him too to even

mention such a charge against anyone let alone a SY brother.

 

Jai Shri Mataji!

 

Balwinder

 

______________

 

 

Balwinder contacted me. i told him what had transpired and how

Ishmael had tried to convince me in late 2002 that he was Shri Kalki:

 

 

Balwinder:

IMO Jagbir must clear the air on this as soon as possible

(immediately).

 

Jagbir: This is no misunderstanding. Ishmael sent me a file about

his experiences even though i never requested them. He asked me to

check and see what i thought of them.

 

It was a rather large file and i just skimmed through it. Some of

his experiences were rather difficult for me to understand - evil

spirits coming out and being destroyed, ugly demons materializing

from SDM toilet forum. Others were quite pleasant. But one thing is

clear - he did not meditate to enter into the Sahasrara. It was as

if they were happening right before him.

 

Only after a few weeks/months did i begin to read it thoroughly and

that was when i came across the sexually explicit paragraph. Ishmael

made it clear that he thoroughly enjoyed that tryst and, if my

memory is correct, 'shri mataji' was on top. That shook me because

immediately i knew something was very wrong.

 

I know that Shri Mataji in the Sahasrara takes extreme precaution

and not have even a remote reference to sex or lust. She covers Her

front with the sari at ALL times and neither Kash, Arwinder nor

Lalita have ever been able to ascertain if She wears a necklace. I

have asked them to find this out but they just can't, though they

tell me about Her koka (nose-ring), rings on fingers and toes etc.

She guards Her modesty at all times. That is why Ishmael's claim is

monstrous. How can Furat say that i have a misunderstanding?!!!!!!!

 

Everything that happens to me has a reason. Thus this exposure of

Ishmael is no fluke. I feel that he made a mistake by not erasing

that sexual part from his experiences. Maybe he forgot or whatever,

but the fact that it was sent to me is sufficient. This will destroy

his claim to be Shri Kalki. I WILL DESTROY HIS CLAIM! He will make

his move and enforce his claim once Shri Mataji leaves - mark these

words!

 

Furat has been told that Shri Mataji, in a late 90's Puja talk,

scoffed at someone claiming to be Shri Kalki. She added that he

should send Her some saris. Ishmael claims that American SYs knew he

had powers before being ostracized by them, possibly because of the

NA leader Manoj. I know he dislikes Manoj and his Kalki claim has to

be partly the reason. But Furat just does not care to confirm this.

 

Ishmael has always, and still continues to, deflect any evidence

that cast doubts on his Kalki claim. That is why he even scorns

scripture because it does not fit him. That is why he scorned at

Shri Mataji making the statement two years ago because it does not

fit him!!!!!! Why is Furat bending over backwards and breaking his

back in the process, against all logic and against Shri Mataji

Herself, to project Ishmael as Kalki????!!!!!!!!!

 

I have yet to comprehend why are we even discussing him. This is not

the first Kalki impersonator I have met and probably not the last.

The previous one also wanted me to endorse his claim and made a

manifesto to be read to all SYs. (I still have that evidence.) It

would have been a disaster had i in any way continued associating

with him. But he still managed to cause damage after being sought by

Yogi Mahajan.

 

Ishmael is playing the same game. He wants me to endorse his claim.

Just to let you both know that negativity is very cunning and

continues to find ways to destroy the Truth. I have been given

enough lessons regarding false claims and so i know that Ishmael is

100% an imposter. You think the Adi Shakti has no better work to do

than seeking sexual favors? What utter rubbish and unforgivable

blasphemy! This is surely the worst i have ever heard regarding my

Niskalanka Primordial Mother. Are we insane by thinking this is just

a mere misunderstanding?

 

jagbir

 

------------------

 

 

Now this whole thing is flaring up again, perhaps for the last time.

Ivan and Balwinder, can both of you put an end to this madness and

Ishmael's claim? SYs really do not want to deal with a breakaway

Kalki sect in future. It is time to destroy all the negativity that

affects Sahaja Yoga. This is one of the worst negativity towards

Shri Mataji, one that is against Her chastity. Ivan, you have the

power to destroy this false Kalki for all times. So just perform

your duty!

 

Jai Shri Mataji,

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

Dear Jagbir,

 

i really do become surprised by your attacks on persnalities. What a

juvenille thing to do.

This is not the issue. it is one of principles. carry on...

you could get yur facts straight though, i never have said i have a wife

who is this mary mperson...as i am not married.

 

grow up brother

ishmael

[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , " Ishmael Abraham "

<ishmael35a> wrote:

> Dear Jagbir,

>

> i really do become surprised by your attacks on persnalities.

> What a juvenille thing to do.

> This is not the issue. it is one of principles. carry on...

> you could get yur facts straight though, i never have said i have

a wife who is this mary mperson...as i am not married.

>

> grow up brother

> ishmael

>

 

 

" My fiance' says i am Mother in a mans body, she has

no doubt. Well She is all that is in here, actually

she inhabits my whole left side, she is that and i

find my Father has bestowed upon me his ego.. What

that makes me Kalki? It will make you also. Those who

are most empty recieve the most of him. "

 

Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:31:33 -0800 (PST)

" Ishmael Abraham " <ishmael35a

Re: your post

" jagbir singh " <adishakti_org

CC: ishmael35a

 

 

Jai Shri Mataji !!!!!!!!

Dear Brother Jagbir,

 

So we see the institution invaded by human beings..

They will always do what is their nature,

unfortunately.

 

> 1. why the physical Adi Shakti would ridicule anyone

> claiming to be Shri Kalki?

 

maybe because they arent.

 

>

> 2. what is the reason/purpose of making this claim

> prematurely, since Shri Kalki is only supposed to

> come at the end of time?

 

Like self-realization , my experience is an organic

one. It takes some time, or it is taking me some time.

Over the last 3.5 years i have experienced continuous

growth and experience. There is nothing static, on a

daily basis this flower unfolds more and more.

 

I cant tell you on what day the end will come, but it

is recorded in my journal that Shri Mataji said to me,

" you are for those who survive the destruction of

their world " . She did actually say the world was to be

destroyed. So i can not interpret it any other way.

 

When i sat down to write i prayed to my Goddess to

move my hand to say what She would have me say. There

was little idea what i would actually write, but i

felt compelled, She has kept bringing it up for the

past few days. i write assuming Shri Mataji reads it,

She is the only one I have a desire to please, as

there is no one has any ability to upset my yoga.

 

Over the last few years i have come to this, it has

not always been easy. I was my own greatest doubter

and denial came first from myself. It was a

combination of my own strength growing and others many

others ( SY'S ) who helped to cast all doubt aside. I

do live with the knowledge i am not for this world but

the next.. She has never told me not to write, about

anything except the days in the wilderness...she says

i would tell to much.

 

My fiance' says i am Mother in a mans body, she has

no doubt. Well She is all that is in here, actually

she inhabits my whole left side, she is that and i

find my Father has bestowed upon me his ego.. What

that makes me Kalki? It will make you also. Those who

are most empty recieve the most of him.

 

For the most part Jagbir, i practise the sage words of

Buddha, where he said, " it is better to do nothing

than do the wrong thing " . Perhaps we are closer than

any of us know, to some events leading to destruction.

I do not know, I do not ask. I am only sure it is

coming. Shri Mother only came to delay, to give her

children a chance. When she is gone physically from

this world there is no telling what will occur. We

will just have to witness it.

 

I hope there are some words here answering your

question. I also try to refrain from making outright

statements as they have a way of becoming reality

tommorrow. So to conclude, She wrote that post..Shri

Adi Shakti.

 

Love to you,

Ishmael

 

p.s. i understand the end of time as recorded by most

spiritual cultures is only some 8 years away.

[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , " Ishmael Abraham "

<ishmael35a> wrote:

> Dear Jagbir,

>

> i really do become surprised by your attacks on persnalities.

> What a juvenille thing to do.

> This is not the issue. it is one of principles. carry on...

> you could get yur facts straight though, i never have said i have

> a wife who is this mary mperson...as i am not married.

>

> grow up brother

> ishmael

>

 

 

" A few years ago, i had the pleasure to spend a year

re-aquainting an old friendship with a beautiful soul

who was my beloved Mary Magdelene. "

 

 

Sun, 2 Nov 2003 10:43:10 -0800 (PST)

" Ishmael Abraham " <ishmael35a

Re: your post

" jagbir singh " <adishakti_org

 

 

Dear Jagbir,

 

I have some thoughts surfacing about some writting of

C.S Lewis.

In the Naria Chronicle and elsewhere he makes some

statement about god being changed somehow by the

events of the cross. I used to think when i read that

he was full of #%$#, how did he know anything of God

like that. Now i do know what he meant, he is right.

 

A few years ago, i had the pleasure to spend a year

re-aquainting an old friendship with a beautiful soul

who was my beloved Mary Magdelene. I dont have to tell

you how recognition takes place. It was wonderful and

awesome experience for us both. During this time all

things in her life were set right, disease cured and a

baby brought forth. With her husband..The baby was

concieved during the week of the star of bethlehem

conjunction. His name they choose is Mathew, means

gift from God. I wish all my relationships could be so beautiful.

 

When this first occured, my voyage, i looked into the

meaning of ishmael. I found at the time a definition

which satisfied me at the time. " I hear God " . But over

time i realised this was a modern definition. This

time was long long ago and when ishmael lived..I have

found some ancient definitions.. " God who hears "

to be more correct. Sanskrit Ish is a name of God.

So do i worry for human sanctioning of my existence?

no my brother..Divine sanctions itself. There is no

such thing as unsanctioned life. Yes i have a plan in

motion to address Shri Mataji, it should be a short

time before this is done.

 

love

ishmael