Guest guest Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 So to understand this question of death, we must be rid of fear which invents the various theories of afterlife or immortality or reincarnation. So we say, those in the East say, that there is reincarnation, there is a rebirth, a constant renewal going on and on and on-the soul, the so-called soul. Now please listen carefully.Is there such a thing? We like to think there is such a thing, because it gives us pleasure, because that is something which we have set beyond thought, beyond words, beyond; it is something eternal, spiritual, that can never die, and so thought clings to it. But is there such a thing, as a soul, which is something beyond time, something beyond thought, something which is not invented by man, something which is beyond the nature of man, something which is not put together by the cunning mind? Because the mind sees such enormous uncertainty, confusion, nothing permanent in life-nothing. Your relationship to your wife, your husband, your job-nothing is permanent. And so the mind invents a something which is permanent, which it calls the soul. But since the mind can think about it, thought can think about it; as thought can think about it, it is still within the field of time-naturally. If I can think about something, it is part of my thought. And my thought is the result of time, of experience, of knowledge. So, the soul is still within the field of time...So the idea of a continuity of a soul which will be reborn over and over and over again has no meaning because it is the invention of a mind that is frightened, of a mind that wants, that seeks a duration through permanency, that wants certainty, because in that there is hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 shriadishakti , " v_radha_om " <v_radha_om> wrote: > > And so the mind invents a something which is permanent, > which it calls the soul. > Om (hope this is not your real name), Can you please take your crappy ideas elsewhere. This is not a forum for humans without a soul. moderator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Dear Radha, Your message seems something on the lines of what Krishnamurthy has written. Only, I dont know if he addressed the subject of soul. The only thing that does not make sense in your argument is that a) You say man realises that everything is transitory and impermanent. Most dont realise this. b)You say he invents something beyond thought and calls it the soul. Till now man has not had the ability to go beyond thiought. Sahaj Yoga is the probably the first time that this has come in reach of ordinary people. You'll have to give sahaj yoga a try for maybe 5-6 months and then re-think this. Alex --- v_radha_om <v_radha_om wrote: > > So to understand this question of death, we must be > rid of fear > which invents the various theories of afterlife or > immortality or > reincarnation. So we say, those in the East say, > that there is > reincarnation, there is a rebirth, a constant > renewal going on and on > and on-the soul, the so-called soul. Now please > listen carefully.Is > there such a thing? We like to think there is such a > thing, because > it gives us pleasure, because that is something > which we have set > beyond thought, beyond words, beyond; it is > something eternal, > spiritual, that can never die, and so thought clings > to it. But is > there such a thing, as a soul, which is something > beyond time, > something beyond thought, something which is not > invented by man, > something which is beyond the nature of man, > something which is not > put together by the cunning mind? Because the mind > sees such enormous > uncertainty, confusion, nothing permanent in > life-nothing. Your > relationship to your wife, your husband, your > job-nothing is > permanent. And so the mind invents a something which > is permanent, > which it calls the soul. But since the mind can > think about it, > thought can think about it; as thought can think > about it, it is > still within the field of time-naturally. If I can > think about > something, it is part of my thought. And my thought > is the result of > time, of experience, of knowledge. So, the soul is > still within the > field of time...So the idea of a continuity of a > soul which will be > reborn over and over and over again has no meaning > because it is the > invention of a mind that is frightened, of a mind > that wants, that > seeks a duration through permanency, that wants > certainty, because in > that there is hope. > > > > The all-new My - Get yours free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Hi Alex, Thats true some lines are from krishnamurthi. I am not his follower nor do i follow anything. I had practised almost all forms of meditations.But everything is just trying deceive you.infact you deceive yourself in this.People have tendency not to accept truth because of their fear. If you are not free of your fears , without understanding yourself its very difficult to go beyond.Infact there is nothing called going beyond your thoughts.You required simply understand what u are. Your thoughts or any method cannot take you there, because where you want to go is something u defined and when you reach there it is till the definition of your own thoughts not the real.If you listen carefully understand.I am trying put anybody or forcing accept things. But telling the fact. As krishnamurthi says " you r light to yourself " , " Truth is a Pathless land " shriadishakti , alex arthur <dude11976> wrote: > Dear Radha, > > Your message seems something on the lines of what > Krishnamurthy has written. Only, I dont know if he > addressed the subject of soul. > > The only thing that does not make sense in your > argument is that > a) You say man realises that everything is transitory > and impermanent. Most dont realise this. > > b)You say he invents something beyond thought and > calls it the soul. Till now man has not had the > ability to go beyond thiought. Sahaj Yoga is the > probably the first time that this has come in reach of > ordinary people. > > You'll have to give sahaj yoga a try for maybe 5-6 > months and then re-think this. > > Alex > > > --- v_radha_om <v_radha_om> wrote: > > > > > So to understand this question of death, we must be > > rid of fear > > which invents the various theories of afterlife or > > immortality or > > reincarnation. So we say, those in the East say, > > that there is > > reincarnation, there is a rebirth, a constant > > renewal going on and on > > and on-the soul, the so-called soul. Now please > > listen carefully.Is > > there such a thing? We like to think there is such a > > thing, because > > it gives us pleasure, because that is something > > which we have set > > beyond thought, beyond words, beyond; it is > > something eternal, > > spiritual, that can never die, and so thought clings > > to it. But is > > there such a thing, as a soul, which is something > > beyond time, > > something beyond thought, something which is not > > invented by man, > > something which is beyond the nature of man, > > something which is not > > put together by the cunning mind? Because the mind > > sees such enormous > > uncertainty, confusion, nothing permanent in > > life-nothing. Your > > relationship to your wife, your husband, your > > job-nothing is > > permanent. And so the mind invents a something which > > is permanent, > > which it calls the soul. But since the mind can > > think about it, > > thought can think about it; as thought can think > > about it, it is > > still within the field of time-naturally. If I can > > think about > > something, it is part of my thought. And my thought > > is the result of > > time, of experience, of knowledge. So, the soul is > > still within the > > field of time...So the idea of a continuity of a > > soul which will be > > reborn over and over and over again has no meaning > > because it is the > > invention of a mind that is frightened, of a mind > > that wants, that > > seeks a duration through permanency, that wants > > certainty, because in > > that there is hope. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The all-new My - Get yours free! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 Radha, Its a promise. Be as critical as you like, but try out sahaj yoga. It will take you just where you re talking about. All the things that you are so sceptical about, will all get clarified. Give it six months, you wont regret it. The phenomenom, if you'd like to call it that, has never been experienced by humanity before. Alex <v_radha_om wrote: > > Hi Alex, > > Thats true some lines are from krishnamurthi. I am > not his follower > nor do i follow anything. I had practised almost all > forms of > meditations.But everything is just trying deceive > you.infact you > deceive yourself in this.People have tendency not to > accept truth > because of their fear. If you are not free of your > fears , without > understanding yourself its very difficult to go > beyond.Infact there > is nothing called going beyond your thoughts.You > required simply > understand what u are. > Your thoughts or any method cannot take you there, > because where you > want to go is something u defined and when you reach > there it is till > the definition of your own thoughts not the real.If > you listen > carefully understand.I am trying put anybody or > forcing accept things. > But telling the fact. > As krishnamurthi says " you r light to yourself " , " > Truth is a > Pathless land " > > > > shriadishakti , alex arthur > <dude11976> > wrote: > > Dear Radha, > > > > Your message seems something on the lines of what > > Krishnamurthy has written. Only, I dont know if he > > addressed the subject of soul. > > > > The only thing that does not make sense in your > > argument is that > > a) You say man realises that everything is > transitory > > and impermanent. Most dont realise this. > > > > b)You say he invents something beyond thought and > > calls it the soul. Till now man has not had the > > ability to go beyond thiought. Sahaj Yoga is the > > probably the first time that this has come in > reach of > > ordinary people. > > > > You'll have to give sahaj yoga a try for maybe 5-6 > > months and then re-think this. > > > > Alex > > > > > > --- v_radha_om <v_radha_om> wrote: > > > > > > > > So to understand this question of death, we > must be > > > rid of fear > > > which invents the various theories of afterlife > or > > > immortality or > > > reincarnation. So we say, those in the East say, > > > that there is > > > reincarnation, there is a rebirth, a constant > > > renewal going on and on > > > and on-the soul, the so-called soul. Now please > > > listen carefully.Is > > > there such a thing? We like to think there is > such a > > > thing, because > > > it gives us pleasure, because that is something > > > which we have set > > > beyond thought, beyond words, beyond; it is > > > something eternal, > > > spiritual, that can never die, and so thought > clings > > > to it. But is > > > there such a thing, as a soul, which is > something > > > beyond time, > > > something beyond thought, something which is not > > > invented by man, > > > something which is beyond the nature of man, > > > something which is not > > > put together by the cunning mind? Because the > mind > > > sees such enormous > > > uncertainty, confusion, nothing permanent in > > > life-nothing. Your > > > relationship to your wife, your husband, your > > > job-nothing is > > > permanent. And so the mind invents a something > which > > > is permanent, > > > which it calls the soul. But since the mind can > > > think about it, > > > thought can think about it; as thought can think > > > about it, it is > > > still within the field of time-naturally. If I > can > > > think about > > > something, it is part of my thought. And my > thought > > > is the result of > > > time, of experience, of knowledge. So, the soul > is > > > still within the > > > field of time...So the idea of a continuity of a > > > soul which will be > > > reborn over and over and over again has no > meaning > > > because it is the > > > invention of a mind that is frightened, of a > mind > > > that wants, that > > > seeks a duration through permanency, that wants > > > certainty, because in > > > that there is hope. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The all-new My - Get yours free! > > > > > > Meet the all-new My - Try it today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 shriadishakti , " v_radha_om " <v_radha_om> wrote: > Hi Alex, ,,Thats true some lines are from krishnamurthi. I am not his follower nor do i follow anything.,, ................................................... ............................................................ Good..then you are not following anything.This is the beginning of your journey.From now one,my friend, you can experience the TRUTH ,and not think of the idea of,, the truth,,.But then ,what is the truth?...If the truth makes you hate everybody ,then you're wrong.If the truth makes you feel the connection with ALL the GOD has created,and you understand it,then you are right.If the truth makes you feel the divinity in all of us,as love,then you are right.If the truth tells you to not follow anything,then you are wrong.I promise you that Sahaja Yoga(from my experience)..will give you the tools to understand this questions. ................................................... ................................................... .......................... ,,I had practised almost all forms of meditations,, ................................................... ................................................... ........................... Very good....,all forms of meditations,,...you remind me of myself,about 15 years ago.I was back then about 22 years old,and very upset about the life( at least..I was considering suicide because I couldn't find the truth..Sahaja Yoga saved my life)). At that time,I was already an expert in the ,,Hare Krishna,,movement,read (and practiced Hatha Yoga...and all the others),and also I had been meditating since I was 16 yo in the Zen Buddhism.Why Zen?...I was a kid back then,and the samurai movies(ZEN was the religion of the samurai) made an impression on me.Also Bruce Lee.The first time I did sahaja yoga,I knew (for myself)...that I have found the truth..and it took me 2 weeks only,not 6 months..(.because I had already the discipline from ZEN), and..Nobody had to tell me.And,like you my friend,I didn't trust anybody. ................................................... ................................................... ................................. ..But everything is just trying deceive you.infact you deceive yourself in this.People have tendency not to accept truth because of their fear. If you are not free of your fears , without understanding yourself its very difficult to go beyond.Infact there is nothing called going beyond your thoughts.You required simply understand what u are. Your thoughts or any method cannot take you there, because where you want to go is something u defined and when you reach there it is till the definition of your own thoughts not the real.If you listen carefully understand.I am trying put anybody or forcing accept things. But telling the fact. As krishnamurthi says " you r light to yourself " , " Truth is a Pathless land " ................................................... ................................................... .................................. If the TRUTH is a pathless path,then why all the sages and incarnations of divine love have appeared on the earth,just to help us? Krishnamurthi said,,you r light to yourself,,...but how can you get the light?...You need the light in the first.In this times,the only light is Sahaja Yoga.Anyway,what happened with me in last 15 years is a different story.But is a story filled with wonders ,joy,and miracles.And this is because of Sahaja Yoga.And in Sahaja Yoga,you'll learn how to become your OWN guru. Sincerely,danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 If you tell to a blind person about light, he will understand according to his assumptions and knoweledge but basically what he thought is not exactly a light. But a person who can see doesn't required any explaniation about light, because he can see the light very clearly.Same way you don't required anybody to show something nameless you have to see yourself now not after 2 weeks 6 months. Sages or gurus whoever it may be how do you know they are telling the truth ? how do you really see truth ? unless you understand what is false and ways you get deceived you can't really understand truth. Truth cannot be given to anybody it should be preceived every moment of life. it is not a record that u can remember, it is very dynamic. What you experience tells you is just a record of the past not of the present. You people always take paths as important not the truth.you given importance to path not to the truth.To understand to truth you should never have choice. shriadishakti , " calugar22 " <calugar22> wrote: > > shriadishakti , " v_radha_om " <v_radha_om> > wrote: > > > Hi Alex, > > ,,Thats true some lines are from krishnamurthi. I am not his follower > nor do i follow anything.,, > .................................................. > ........................................................... > > Good..then you are not following anything.This is the beginning of > your journey.From now one,my friend, you can experience the TRUTH ,and > not think of the idea of,, the truth,,.But then ,what is the > truth?...If the truth makes you hate everybody ,then you're wrong.If > the truth makes you feel the connection with ALL the GOD has > created,and you understand it,then you are right.If the truth makes > you feel the divinity in all of us,as love,then you are right.If the > truth tells you to not follow anything,then you are wrong.I promise > you that Sahaja Yoga(from my experience)..will give you the tools to > understand this questions. > .................................................. > .................................................. > ......................... > ,,I had practised almost all forms of > meditations,, > .................................................. > .................................................. > .......................... > Very good....,all forms of meditations,,...you remind me of > myself,about 15 years ago.I was back then about 22 years old,and very > upset about the life( at least..I was considering suicide because I > couldn't find the truth..Sahaja Yoga saved my life)). At that time,I > was already an expert in the ,,Hare Krishna,,movement,read (and > practiced Hatha Yoga...and all the others),and also I had been > meditating since I was 16 yo in the Zen Buddhism.Why Zen?...I was a > kid back then,and the samurai movies(ZEN was the religion of the > samurai) made an impression on me.Also Bruce Lee.The first time I did > sahaja yoga,I knew (for myself)...that I have found the truth..and it > took me 2 weeks only,not 6 months..(.because I had already the > discipline from ZEN), and..Nobody had to tell me.And,like you my > friend,I didn't trust anybody. > > .................................................. > .................................................. > ................................ > > > .But everything is just trying deceive you.infact you > deceive yourself in this.People have tendency not to accept truth > because of their fear. If you are not free of your fears , without > understanding yourself its very difficult to go beyond.Infact there > is nothing called going beyond your thoughts.You required simply > understand what u are. > Your thoughts or any method cannot take you there, because where you > want to go is something u defined and when you reach there it is till > the definition of your own thoughts not the real.If you listen > carefully understand.I am trying put anybody or forcing accept things. > But telling the fact. > As krishnamurthi says " you r light to yourself " , " Truth is a > Pathless land " > .................................................. > .................................................. > ................................. > > If the TRUTH is a pathless path,then why all the sages and > incarnations of divine love have appeared on the earth,just to help > us? Krishnamurthi said,,you r light to yourself,,...but how can you > get the light?...You need the light in the first.In this times,the > only light is Sahaja Yoga.Anyway,what happened with me in last 15 > years is a different story.But is a story filled with wonders ,joy,and > miracles.And this is because of Sahaja Yoga.And in Sahaja Yoga,you'll > learn how to become your OWN guru. > > Sincerely,danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 this is from an email not intended for me ,but for v_radha_om ......................... To Om, The practice of sahajayoga will remove all doubts about the existence of soul or souls.The only thing is that if you are entering in a new region then you have to follow its rules. Then you will come to know with experience what are lying there. Sahajayoga is the living process so you will know all about life and consciousness not outside but within your own person. It is better to experience than going on orguing about the soul or the Spirit. Without your soul you can not exist as a living being or a humanbeing. You have been given a chance to realize your spirit.You are lucky to enter this forum.So please follow the advice given and we are sure you will come out of all doubts when you will experience. It is left to u to proceed to practice Sahajayoga and not wasting your precious time. CL Patel ..............................................................end of email Sincerely,danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 shriadishakti , " v_radha_om " <v_radha_om> wrote: > > If you tell to a blind person about light, he will understand > according to his assumptions and knoweledge but basically what he > thought is not exactly a light. But a person who can see doesn't > required any explaniation about light, because he can see the > light very clearly.Same way you don't required anybody to show > something nameless you have to see yourself now not after 2 weeks > 6 months. > > Sages or gurus whoever it may be how do you know they are telling > the truth ? how do you really see truth ? unless you understand > what is false and ways you get deceived you can't really > understand truth. > > Truth cannot be given to anybody it should be preceived every > moment of life. it is not a record that u can remember, it is very > dynamic. What you experience tells you is just a record of the > past not of the present. You people always take paths as important > not the truth. you given importance to path not to the truth.To > understand to truth you should never have choice. > > " When the Bodhisattvas are possessed of four qualities, then they are practicing the Great Yoga, " we read in the Lankavatara-sutra, one of the principal texts of the Yogacara. " These four qualities are as follows: 1. the realization that everything is but a manifestation of our spirit, 2. freedom from the false idea that there is any such thing as growth, duration, or succession of things, 3. the understanding that the sole characteristic of external objects is nonexistence, and 4. the understanding that the Holy Knowledge is to be realized within ourselves. " This four-fold mental yoga recluses the practioner from the painful whirlpool of samsara, which is otherwise without end. Heinrich Zimmer, Philosophies of India Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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