i am only asking for an answer to what many SYs believe in their heart

[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , " Dr.Nitin Khandelwal "

<dr_nitin_khandelwal> wrote:

>

> || JAI SHRI MATAJI ||

>

> Dear Shri Girish Bhai, JAI SHRI MATAJI !

>

> Though all these Ice-Pack, Lemon-n-Chilly & Shoe-Beating are

Sahaja Yogic methods to eliminate specific problems, you should pay

full attention of yours to Meditation. At regular basis every Sahaja

Yogi has to Meditate twice-a-day & has to do Foot-Soaking atleast

once a day before going to bed. Also, we've to give Self Realization

to as many seekers as possible & go out of the way to work for

Sahaja Yoga. Therefore it's a Protocol that you MUST attend atleast

one Public Programme a week.

>

> If you follow the above regulations, no doubt you'll have all your

problems solved effortlessly. As far as awareness of these

treatments is concerned, please contact Senior Sahaja Yogis in your

Collective for the same.

>

> Yours Sahaja Yogi Brother,

>

> Dr. Nitin Khandelwal, Ujjain Sahaja Yoga Yuva Shakti, UJJAIN,

INDIA.

>

>

 

Dear Nitin,

 

Can i know in DETAIL why it is not possible to rid oneself of all

the petty subtle system catches etc, by following this enlightened

advise?:

 

" the best solution to all the problems is to SURRENDER TEHM TO SHRI

MATAJI & GET RID OF THEM.... let Shri Mataji do whatever she wishes.

Believe me that all your problems will be over in No Time. LEAVE ALL

THE QUESTIONS & PROBLEMS TO THE UNCONSCIOUS THAT'S FLOWING FROM THE

LOTUS FEET OF SHRI MATAJI. "

 

i would really appreciate any SY who follows such cleansing

techniques on a daily basis to speak up and provide some honest

answers. All my years i have never been given an answer as to why

the Mother Kundalini cannot heal, and we need external rituals. This

is a form where you can speak your mind. i am only asking for an

answer to what many SYs believe in their heart is a daily necessity.

Please just rid me of my ignorance in this matter.

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

Dear Jagbirji,

I will really bre thankful to you and to everyone concerned, that if only learn to surrender everything to the kundalini. Maybe we don't know to surrender. I too am looking for this kind of a stage. But i feel scared to live without treatments, coz some people in my collective tried to do exactly the same, they said that they only meditated and didn't spend time in cleansing themselves and one day they were almost out of Sahaja and they came back only after taking Sahaj treatments. So please tell me the proper way to surrender. I'm sure many will be thankful to you.

Madhurimajagbir singh <adishakti_org wrote:

shriadishakti , "Dr.Nitin Khandelwal" <dr_nitin_khandelwal> wrote:> > || JAI SHRI MATAJI ||> > Dear Shri Girish Bhai, JAI SHRI MATAJI !> > Though all these Ice-Pack, Lemon-n-Chilly & Shoe-Beating are Sahaja Yogic methods to eliminate specific problems, you should pay full attention of yours to Meditation. At regular basis every Sahaja Yogi has to Meditate twice-a-day & has to do Foot-Soaking atleast once a day before going to bed. Also, we've to give Self Realization to as many seekers as possible & go out of the way to work for Sahaja Yoga. Therefore it's a Protocol that you MUST attend atleast one Public Programme a week.> > If you follow the above regulations, no doubt you'll have all your problems solved effortlessly. As far as

awareness of these treatments is concerned, please contact Senior Sahaja Yogis in your Collective for the same.> > Yours Sahaja Yogi Brother,> > Dr. Nitin Khandelwal, Ujjain Sahaja Yoga Yuva Shakti, UJJAIN, INDIA.> > Dear Nitin,Can i know in DETAIL why it is not possible to rid oneself of all the petty subtle system catches etc, by following this enlightened advise?:"the best solution to all the problems is to SURRENDER TEHM TO SHRI MATAJI & GET RID OF THEM.... let Shri Mataji do whatever she wishes. Believe me that all your problems will be over in No Time. LEAVE ALL THE QUESTIONS & PROBLEMS TO THE UNCONSCIOUS THAT'S FLOWING FROM THE LOTUS FEET OF SHRI MATAJI."i would really appreciate any SY who follows such cleansing techniques on a daily basis to speak up and provide some honest answers. All my years i have never been given an answer as to why

the Mother Kundalini cannot heal, and we need external rituals. This is a form where you can speak your mind. i am only asking for an answer to what many SYs believe in their heart is a daily necessity. Please just rid me of my ignorance in this matter.jagbir

Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more.

[Guest guest]

Dear Madhurima,

 

There are elements of truth in what you have written. Please give me

a few days to respond. In the meantime can you elaborate on how the

SYs nearly went out of Sahaja Yoga. i really need this information

to understand why your post makes sense.

 

jagbir

 

shriadishakti , Madhurima M <marycheva>

wrote:

> Dear Jagbirji,

> I will really bre thankful to you and to everyone concerned, that

if only learn to surrender everything to the kundalini. Maybe we

don't know to surrender. I too am looking for this kind of a stage.

But i feel scared to live without treatments, coz some people in my

collective tried to do exactly the same, they said that they only

meditated and didn't spend time in cleansing themselves and one day

they were almost out of Sahaja and they came back only after taking

Sahaj treatments. So please tell me the proper way to surrender. I'm

sure many will be thankful to you.

> Madhurima

>

>

[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org> wrote:

>

> Dear Nitin,

>

> Can we have an end to all this uncalled for conditioning

> advertisments? i have already asked you questions which you have

> not the courtesy to reply:

>

> -----------

> Dear Nitin,

>

> Can i know in DETAIL why it is not possible to rid oneself of all

> the petty subtle system catches etc, by following this enlightened

> advise?:

>

> " the best solution to all the problems is to SURRENDER TEHM TO SHRI

> MATAJI & GET RID OF THEM.... let Shri Mataji do whatever she

> wishes. Believe me that all your problems will be over in No Time.

> LEAVE ALL THE QUESTIONS & PROBLEMS TO THE UNCONSCIOUS THAT'S

> FLOWING FROM THE LOTUS FEET OF SHRI MATAJI. "

>

> i would really appreciate any SY who follows such cleansing

> techniques on a daily basis to speak up and provide some honest

> answers. All my years i have never been given an answer as to why

> the Mother Kundalini cannot heal, and we need external rituals.

> This is a forum where you can speak your mind. i am only asking

> for an answer to what many SYs believe in their heart is a daily

> necessity. Please just rid me of my ignorance in this matter.

>

> jagbir

> ----------

>

> Yet you continue to post these unnecessary reminders. Perhaps you

> do not understand what i am trying to say - Let SYs learn how to

> use the kundalini for ALL THEIR PROBLEMS! Why do you keep on

> giving wrong/false advise? If these treatments work for you fine

> and good. But please don't insist the rest of us must do so. Let

> us learn how to " SURRENDER THEM TO SHRI MATAJI & GET RID OF

> THEM.... let Shri Mataji do whatever she wishes. Believe me that

> all your problems will be over in No Time. " (i think these are

> your words.)

>

> Unless you tell me how chillies and lemons are empowered to heal

> in contradiction of both our faith in Shri Mataji and the Mother

> Kundalini, or at least mine, please do not post these unnecessary

> conditioning reminders anymore. If you are a subtle system expert

> and a doctor at the same time you will provide answers.

>

> jagbir

>

>

> shriadishakti , " SRIRAM " <sri204> wrote:

> > || JAI SHRI MATAJI ||

> > Dear Shri Girish Bhai, JAI SHRI MATAJI !

> >

> > Though all these Ice-Pack, Lemon-n-Chilly & Shoe-Beating are

> > Sahaja Yogic methods to eliminate specific problems, you should

> > pay full attention of yours to Meditation. At regular basis

> > every Sahaja Yogi has to Meditate twice-a-day & has to do Foot-

> > Soaking atleast once a day before going to bed. Also, we've to

> > give Self Realization to as many seekers as possible & go out of

> > the way to work for Sahaja Yoga. Therefore it's a Protocol that

> > you MUST attend atleast one Public Programme a week.

> >

> > If you follow the above regulations, no doubt you'll have all

> > your problems solved effortlessly. As far as awareness of these

> > treatments is concerned, please contact Senior Sahaja Yogis in

> > your Collective for the same.

> >

> > Yours Sahaja Yogi Brother,

> >

> > Dr. Nitin Khandelwal, Ujjain Sahaja Yoga Yuva Shakti, UJJAIN,

> INDIA.

 

shriadishakti , " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org> wrote:

>

> Dear Madhurima,

>

> There are elements of truth in what you have written. Please give

> me a few days to respond. In the meantime can you elaborate on how

> the SYs nearly went out of Sahaja Yoga. i really need this

> information to understand why your post makes sense.

>

> jagbir

>

> shriadishakti , Madhurima M <marycheva>

> wrote:

> :

> > Dear Jagbirji,

> > I will really bre thankful to you and to everyone concerned,

> > that if only learn to surrender everything to the kundalini.

> > Maybe we don't know to surrender. I too am looking for this kind

> > of a stage. But i feel scared to live without treatments, coz

> > some people in my collective tried to do exactly the same, they

> > said that they only meditated and didn't spend time in cleansing

> > themselves and one day they were almost out of Sahaja and they

> > came back only after taking Sahaj treatments. So please tell me

> > the proper way to surrender. I'm sure many will be thankful to

> > you.

> > Madhurima

> >

> >

 

 

 

Dear Madhurima,

 

My faith in Shri Mataji is grounded in Her message of the Last

Judgment and Resurrection. The faith of almost all SYs is rooted in

the subtle system. My guidance comes from the eternal Goddess

within. The guidance of almost all SYs comes from the human Shri

Mataji Nirmala Devi. My conviction in healing lies in the Mother

Kundalini. The curative belief of almost all SYs lies in footsoaks,

treatments and constant cleansing.

 

Those who are taking part in the promised, preordained Great Event,

seek guidance from the Shakti within and leave all their subtle

system problems to the Mother Kundalini will never fall or resort to

ritualistic cleansings. That is the proper way to surrender.

 

Those taking part in cleansing the subtle system by seeking help

from Shri Mataji and still resorting to lemons and chillies will

always remain sick, waver and even fall.

 

i believe you are talking about a few Russian SYs who " only

meditated (on the external Shri Mataji) and didn't spend time in

cleansing themselves (instead of asking the Mother Kundalini to take

care of all subtle system problems) and one day they were almost out

of Sahaja (because they know so little about the Last Judgment and

Resurrection) and they came back only after taking Sahaj treatments

(because their faith is rooted in ritual cleansing). "

 

Yes, i did tell you that " there are elements of truth in what you

have written. Please give me a few days to respond. In the meantime

can you elaborate on how the SYs nearly went out of Sahaja Yoga. i

really need this information to understand why your post makes

sense. " Though you did not give me that required information i still

have been able to understand why your post made sense, and the

answer lies in this quote of Shri Mataji:

 

" When the Kundalini rises one can feel easily the Cool Breeze

coming out of one's fontanel bone area on top of one's head. One can

feel it oneself, and one has to certify oneself. One can also feel

this Cool Breeze all around oneself. This Cool Breeze is the one

that is manifested by the All-Pervading Power of Divine Love. For

the first time in life one actualizes the experience of feeling this

subtle Divine Power.

 

Even after feeling this Power one has to understand that this

Kundalini is not fully established. In ordinary mechanical language

we can say that the connection is not established. One has to work

it out. Though sprouting in a seed is spontaneous, the gardener has

to now look after the tender sapling.

 

In the same way a seeker has to look after his Self-Realization in

the beginning. Some people achieve heights very easily, but some

have to work for six or seven months and are still not all right.

Under these circumstances it is important that one must know and

understand where the problem is by understanding the proper decoding

system and its practices in Sahaja Yoga. " (Shri Mataji)

 

There you have it - cures and treatments are for people who are

still have not established their kundalini after six months or so.

That is when they are encouraged to use various external treatments

and mentally focus their attention within. That is why lemons and

chillies treatments prove effective to these type of people.

 

But at the same time after getting healed such patients " feel scared

to live without treatments. This has been proven by the fact

that " some people in my collective tried to do exactly the same,

they said that they only meditated and didn't spend time in

cleansing themselves and one day they were almost out of Sahaja and

they came back only after taking Sahaj treatments. "

 

To understand the wonderful curative powers of revered lemons and

chillies, whose only side-effects seem to be a life-long addiction

and morbid fear of withdrawal, it is necessary to fully comprehend

this controlled medical studies titled " The Placebo Effect " :

 

" The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt

improvement in health not attributable to treatment. This effect is

believed by many people to be due to the placebo itself in some

mysterious way. A placebo (Latin for " I shall please " ) is a

medication or treatment believed by the administrator of the

treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may be sugar pills or

starch pills. Even " fake " surgery and " fake "

psychotherapy are considered placebos.

 

Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos to patients.

Anecdotal evidence for the placebo effect is garnered in this way.

Those who believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo

effect point to clinical studies, many of which use a control group

treated with a placebo. Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or

therapy, would be effective is not known.

 

The psychological theory: it's all in your mind

 

Some believe the placebo effect is psychological, due to a belief in

the treatment or to a subjective feeling of improvement. Irving

Kirsch, a psychologist at the University of Connecticut, believes

that the effectiveness of Prozac and similar drugs may be attributed

almost entirely to the placebo effect. He and Guy Sapirstein

analyzed 19 clinical trials of antidepressants and concluded that

the expectation of improvement, not adjustments in brain chemistry,

accounted for 75 percent of the drugs' effectiveness (Kirsch

1998).   " The critical factor, " says Kirsch, " is our beliefs about

what's going to happen to us. You don't have to rely on drugs to see

profound transformation. " In an earlier study, Sapirstein analyzed

39 studies, done between 1974 and 1995, of depressed patients

treated with drugs, psychotherapy, or a combination of both. He

found that 50 percent of the drug effect is due to the placebo

response.

 

A person's beliefs and hopes about a treatment, combined with their

suggestibility, may have a significant biochemical effect. Sensory

experience and thoughts can affect neurochemistry. The body's

neurochemical system affects and is affected by other biochemical

systems, including the hormonal and immune systems. Thus, it is

consistent with current knowledge that a person's hopeful attitude

and beliefs may be very important to their physical well-being and

recovery from injury or illness.

 

However, it may be that much of the placebo effect is not a matter

of mind over molecules, but of mind over behavior. A part of the

behavior of a " sick " person is learned. So is part of the behavior

of a person in pain. In short, there is a certain amount of role-

playing by ill or hurt people. Role-playing is not the same as

faking or malingering. The behavior of sick or injured persons is

socially and culturally based to some extent. The placebo effect may

be a measurement of changed behavior affected by a belief in the

treatment. The changed behavior includes a change in attitude, in

what one says about how one feels, and how one acts. It may also

affect one's body chemistry.

 

The psychological explanation seems to be the one most commonly

believed. Perhaps this is why many people are dismayed when they are

told that the effective drug they are taking is a placebo. This

makes them think that their problem is " all in their mind " and that

there is really nothing wrong with them. Yet, there are too many

studies which have found objective improvements in health from

placebos to support the notion that the placebo effect is entirely

psychological. 

 

Doctors in one study successfully eliminated warts by painting them

with a brightly colored, inert dye and promising patients the warts

would be gone when the color wore off. In a study of asthmatics,

researchers found that they could produce dilation of the airways by

simply telling people they were inhaling a bronchiodilator, even

when they weren't. Patients suffering pain after wisdom-tooth

extraction got just as much relief from a fake application of

ultrasound as from a real one, so long as both patient and therapist

thought the machine was on. Fifty-two percent of the colitis

patients treated with placebo in 11 different trials reported

feeling better -- and 50 percent of the inflamed intestines actually

looked better when assessed with a sigmoidoscope ( " The Placebo

Prescription " by Margaret Talbot, New York Times Magazine, January

9, 2000).*

 

It is unlikely that such effects are purely psychological. But it is

not necessarily the case that the placebo is actually effective in

such cases.

 

The nature-taking-its-course theory

 

Some believe that at least part of the placebo effect is due to an

illness or injury taking its natural course. We often heal

spontaneously if we do nothing at all to treat an illness or injury.

Furthermore, many disorders, pains and illnesses, wax and wane. What

is measured as the placebo effect could be, in many cases, the

measurement of natural regression. In short, the placebo may be

given credit that is due to Nature.

 

However, spontaneous healing and spontaneous remission of disease

cannot explain all the healing or improvement that takes place

because of placebos. People who are given no treatment at all often

do not do as well as those given placebos or real medicine and

treatment.

 

The process-of-treatment theory

 

Another theory gaining popularity is that a process of treatment

that involves showing attention, care, affection, etc., to the

patient/subject, a process that is encouraging and hopeful, may

itself trigger physical reactions in the body which promote healing.

According to Dr. Walter A. Brown, a psychiatrist at Brown

University, there is certainly data that suggest that just being in

the healing situation accomplishes something. Depressed patients who

are merely put on a waiting list for treatment do not do as well as

those given placebos. And -- this is very telling, I think -- when

placebos are given for pain management, the course of pain relief

follows what you would get with an active drug. The peak relief

comes about an hour after it's administered, as it does with the

real drug, and so on. If placebo analgesia was the equivalent of

giving nothing, you'd expect a more random pattern ( " The Placebo

Prescription " by Margaret Talbot, New York Times Magazine, January

9, 2000).*

 

Dr. Brown and others believe that the placebo effect is mainly or

purely physical and due to physical changes which promote healing or

feeling better. It is assumed that the physical changes are not

caused by the placebo itself. So, what is the explanatory mechanism

for the placebo effect? Some think it is the process of

administering it. It is thought that the touching, the caring, the

attention, and other interpersonal communication that is part of the

controlled study process (or the therapeutic setting), along with

the hopefulness and encouragement provided by the

experimenter/healer, affect the mood of the subject, which in turn

triggers physical changes such as release of endorphins. The process

reduces stress by providing hope or reducing uncertainty about what

treatment to take or what the outcome will be. The reduction in

stress prevents or slows down further harmful physical changes from

occurring.

 

The process-of-treatment hypothesis would explain how inert

homeopathic remedies and the questionable therapies of

many " alternative " health practitioners are often effective or

thought to be effective. It would also explain why pills or

procedures used by conventional medicine work until they are shown

to be worthless.

 

Forty years ago, a young Seattle cardiologist named Leonard Cobb

conducted a unique trial of a procedure then commonly used for

angina, in which doctors made small incisions in the chest and tied

knots in two arteries to try to increase blood flow to the heart. It

was a popular technique -- 90 percent of patients reported that it

helped -- but when Cobb compared it with placebo surgery in which he

made incisions but did not tie off the arteries, the sham operations

proved just as successful. The procedure, known as internal mammary

ligation, was soon abandoned ( " The Placebo Prescription " by Margaret

Talbot, New York Times Magazine, January 9, 2000).*

Of course, spontaneous healing or regression can also adequately

explain why homeopathic remedies might appear to be effective.

Whether the placebo effect is mainly psychological, misunderstood

spontaneous healing, due to showing care and attention, or due to

some combination of all three may not be known with complete

confidence.

 

The powerful placebo challenged

 

The powerful effect of the placebo is not in doubt. It should be,

however, according to Danish researchers Asbjørn Hróbjartsson

and Peter C. Götzsche. Their meta-study of 114 studies involving

placebos found " little evidence in general that placebos had

powerful clinical effects...[and]...compared with no treatment,

placebo had no significant effect on binary outcomes, regardless of

whether these outcomes were subjective or objective. For the trials

with continuous outcomes, placebo had a beneficial effect, but the

effect decreased with increasing sample size, indicating a possible

bias related to the effects of small trials ( " Is the Placebo

Powerless? An Analysis of Clinical Trials Comparing Placebo with No

Treatment, " The New England Journal of Medicine, May 24, 2001 (Vol.

344, No. 21). "

 

According to Dr. Hróbjartsson, professor of medical philosophy and

research methodology at University of Copenhagen, " The high levels

of placebo effect which have been repeatedly reported in many

articles, in our mind are the result of flawed research

methodology. " * This claim flies in the face of more than fifty years

of research. At the very least, we can expect to see more rigorously

designed research projects trying to disprove Hróbjartsson and

Götzsche.

 

The origin of the idea

 

The idea of the powerful placebo in modern times originated with H.

K. Beecher. He evaluated over two dozen studies and calculated that

about one-third of those in the studies improved due to the placebo

effect ( " The Powerful Placebo, " 1955). Other studies calculate the

placebo effect as being even greater than Beecher claimed. For

example, studies have shown that placebos are effective in 50 or 60

percent of subjects with certain conditions, e.g., " pain,

depression, some heart ailments, gastric ulcers and other stomach

complaints. " * And, as effective as the new psychotropic drugs seem

to be in the treatment of various brain disorders, some researchers

maintain that there is not adequate evidence from studies to prove

that the new drugs are more effective than placebos.

 

Placebos have even been shown to cause unpleasant side effects.

Dermatitis medicamentosa and angioneurotic edema have resulted from

placebo therapy, according to Dodes. There are even reports of

people becoming addicted to placebos.

 

The ethical dilemma

 

The power of the placebo effect has led to an ethical dilemma. One

should not deceive other people, but one should relieve the pain and

suffering of one's patients. Should one use deception to benefit

one's patients? Is it unethical for a doctor to knowingly prescribe

a placebo without informing the patient? If informing the patient

reduces the effectiveness of the placebo, is some sort of deception

warranted in order to benefit the patient? Some doctors think it is

justified to use a placebo in those types of cases where a strong

placebo effect has been shown and where distress is an aggravating

factor.* 

 

Others think it is always wrong to deceive the patient and

that informed consent requires that the patient be told that a

treatment is a placebo treatment. Others, especially " alternative "

medicine practitioners, don't even want to know whether a treatment

is a placebo or not. Their attitude is that as long as the treatment

is effective, who cares if it a placebo? Of course, if the placebo

effect is an illusion, then another ethical dilemma arises: should

placebos be given if it is known that deception does not really

reduce pain or aid in the cure of anything?

 

Are placebos dangerous?

 

While skeptics may reject faith, prayer and " alternative " medical

practices such as bioharmonics, chiropractic and homeopathy, such

practices may not be without their salutary effects. Clearly, they

can't cure cancer or repair a punctured lung, and they might not

even prolong life by giving hope and relieving distress as is

sometimes thought. But administering useless therapies does involve

interacting with the patient in a caring, attentive way, and this

can provide some measure of comfort. However, to those who say " what

difference does it make why something works, as long as it seems to

work " I reply that it is likely that there is something which works

even better, something for the other two-thirds or one-half of

humanity who, for whatever reason, cannot be cured or helped by

placebos or spontaneous healing or natural regression of their pain.

Furthermore, placebos may not always be beneficial or harmless. In

addition to adverse side effects, mentioned above, John Dodes notes

that 

 

Patients can become dependent on nonscientific practitioners who

employ placebo therapies. Such patients may be led to believe

they're suffering from imagined " reactive " hypoglycemia, nonexistent

allergies and yeast infections, dental filling amalgam " toxicity, "

or that they're under the power of Qi or extraterrestrials. And

patients can be led to believe that diseases are only amenable to a

specific type of treatment from a specific practitioner (The

Mysterious Placebo by John E. Dodes, Skeptical Inquirer, Jan/Feb

1997).

 

---------------

 

 

Will SYs finally understand the difference between having faith in

chillies and Mother Kundalini? But i have to admit it works both

ways. The difference is that the Mother Kundalini does not make you

scared of living without treatments, induce fear of bhoots, spiders,

cats, bats or make you run hide from this evil world so full of

scary entities and wicked characters ................... oh, i

forgot to mention this small petty fact - She also rids you of all

catches within minutes. Guess SYs do not need to take the placebo

after all. But those who need please don't pass your ignorance to

others, especially those seeking to join Sahaja Yoga. Is that too

much to ask?

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

Dear Jagbirji,

Thnks a lot for all the trouble you have taken to anwer my mail. But the question still lies. How do you achieve that state of surrendering everything to the kundaline when you know your left swadisthan is catching very badly or your liver is heated up. I still cannot figure out how did you achieve this state by doing nothing at all. I mean not taking the normal treatments. I know i might sound as a "treatment fanatic"but i don't know the other way out.

Maybe you should let us know what exactly you did to achieve this state. I would even like to know how you meditated, where, what did you say to your Kundalinie, were your eyes closed or open , how were the vibs when you started doing your meditation and how did they change. Did you listen to some special bhajans, mantras etc.

It is not that I want to cross examine you or in any way beating around the bushes, but I want to know very specifically what did you exactly do surrender everything to your Kundalini. Because for me to get into Nirvichara is not so simple. I have to work hard and need to be disciplined in order to be in Nirvichara during meditation and without meditation.Don't take this mail as if I'm trying to anyway hurt you but just want to know the details. I'm a seeker who wants to achieve his goal and nothing else. This is the only truth which I can put before.

Much love,

Madhurimajagbir singh <adishakti_org wrote:

shriadishakti , "jagbir singh" <adishakti_org> wrote:> > Dear Nitin,> > Can we have an end to all this uncalled for conditioning > advertisments? i have already asked you questions which you have > not the courtesy to reply:> > -----------> Dear Nitin,> > Can i know in DETAIL why it is not possible to rid oneself of all> the petty subtle system catches etc, by following this enlightened> advise?:> > "the best solution to all the problems is to SURRENDER TEHM TO SHRI> MATAJI & GET RID OF THEM.... let Shri Mataji do whatever she > wishes. Believe me that all your problems will be over in No Time. > LEAVE ALL THE QUESTIONS & PROBLEMS TO THE UNCONSCIOUS THAT'S > FLOWING FROM THE LOTUS FEET OF SHRI

MATAJI."> > i would really appreciate any SY who follows such cleansing> techniques on a daily basis to speak up and provide some honest> answers. All my years i have never been given an answer as to why> the Mother Kundalini cannot heal, and we need external rituals. > This is a forum where you can speak your mind. i am only asking > for an answer to what many SYs believe in their heart is a daily > necessity. Please just rid me of my ignorance in this matter.> > jagbir> ----------> > Yet you continue to post these unnecessary reminders. Perhaps you > do not understand what i am trying to say - Let SYs learn how to > use the kundalini for ALL THEIR PROBLEMS! Why do you keep on > giving wrong/false advise? If these treatments work for you fine > and good. But please don't insist the rest of us must do so. Let > us learn how to "SURRENDER THEM TO SHRI MATAJI

& GET RID OF > THEM.... let Shri Mataji do whatever she wishes. Believe me that > all your problems will be over in No Time." (i think these are > your words.)> > Unless you tell me how chillies and lemons are empowered to heal > in contradiction of both our faith in Shri Mataji and the Mother > Kundalini, or at least mine, please do not post these unnecessary > conditioning reminders anymore. If you are a subtle system expert > and a doctor at the same time you will provide answers. > > jagbir> > > shriadishakti , "SRIRAM" <sri204> wrote:> > || JAI SHRI MATAJI ||> > Dear Shri Girish Bhai, JAI SHRI MATAJI !> > > > Though all these Ice-Pack, Lemon-n-Chilly & Shoe-Beating are > > Sahaja Yogic methods to eliminate specific problems, you should > > pay full attention of yours to

Meditation. At regular basis > > every Sahaja Yogi has to Meditate twice-a-day & has to do Foot-> > Soaking atleast once a day before going to bed. Also, we've to > > give Self Realization to as many seekers as possible & go out of > > the way to work for Sahaja Yoga. Therefore it's a Protocol that > > you MUST attend atleast one Public Programme a week.> > > > If you follow the above regulations, no doubt you'll have all > > your problems solved effortlessly. As far as awareness of these > > treatments is concerned, please contact Senior Sahaja Yogis in > > your Collective for the same.> > > > Yours Sahaja Yogi Brother,> > > > Dr. Nitin Khandelwal, Ujjain Sahaja Yoga Yuva Shakti, UJJAIN, > INDIA.shriadishakti , "jagbir singh" <adishakti_org> wrote:> > Dear

Madhurima,> > There are elements of truth in what you have written. Please give > me a few days to respond. In the meantime can you elaborate on how > the SYs nearly went out of Sahaja Yoga. i really need this > information to understand why your post makes sense.> > jagbir> > shriadishakti , Madhurima M <marycheva> > wrote:> :> > Dear Jagbirji,> > I will really bre thankful to you and to everyone concerned, > > that if only learn to surrender everything to the kundalini. > > Maybe we don't know to surrender. I too am looking for this kind > > of a stage. But i feel scared to live without treatments, coz > > some people in my collective tried to do exactly the same, they > > said that they only meditated and didn't spend time in cleansing > > themselves and one day they were almost out of

Sahaja and they > > came back only after taking Sahaj treatments. So please tell me > > the proper way to surrender. I'm sure many will be thankful to > > you.> > Madhurima> > > >Dear Madhurima,My faith in Shri Mataji is grounded in Her message of the Last Judgment and Resurrection. The faith of almost all SYs is rooted in the subtle system. My guidance comes from the eternal Goddess within. The guidance of almost all SYs comes from the human Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi. My conviction in healing lies in the Mother Kundalini. The curative belief of almost all SYs lies in footsoaks, treatments and constant cleansing.Those who are taking part in the promised, preordained Great Event, seek guidance from the Shakti within and leave all their subtle system problems to the Mother Kundalini will never fall or resort to ritualistic cleansings. That is the proper way to

surrender.Those taking part in cleansing the subtle system by seeking help from Shri Mataji and still resorting to lemons and chillies will always remain sick, waver and even fall. i believe you are talking about a few Russian SYs who "only meditated (on the external Shri Mataji) and didn't spend time in cleansing themselves (instead of asking the Mother Kundalini to take care of all subtle system problems) and one day they were almost out of Sahaja (because they know so little about the Last Judgment and Resurrection) and they came back only after taking Sahaj treatments (because their faith is rooted in ritual cleansing)."Yes, i did tell you that "there are elements of truth in what you have written. Please give me a few days to respond. In the meantime can you elaborate on how the SYs nearly went out of Sahaja Yoga. i really need this information to understand why your post makes sense." Though you did not

give me that required information i still have been able to understand why your post made sense, and the answer lies in this quote of Shri Mataji:"When the Kundalini rises one can feel easily the Cool Breezecoming out of one's fontanel bone area on top of one's head. One can feel it oneself, and one has to certify oneself. One can also feel this Cool Breeze all around oneself. This Cool Breeze is the one that is manifested by the All-Pervading Power of Divine Love. For the first time in life one actualizes the experience of feeling this subtle Divine Power. Even after feeling this Power one has to understand that this Kundalini is not fully established. In ordinary mechanical language we can say that the connection is not established. One has to work it out. Though sprouting in a seed is spontaneous, the gardener has to now look after the tender sapling. In the same way a seeker has to look after his

Self-Realization in the beginning. Some people achieve heights very easily, but some have to work for six or seven months and are still not all right. Under these circumstances it is important that one must know and understand where the problem is by understanding the proper decoding system and its practices in Sahaja Yoga." (Shri Mataji)There you have it - cures and treatments are for people who are still have not established their kundalini after six months or so. That is when they are encouraged to use various external treatments and mentally focus their attention within. That is why lemons and chillies treatments prove effective to these type of people. But at the same time after getting healed such patients "feel scared to live without treatments. This has been proven by the fact that "some people in my collective tried to do exactly the same, they said that they only meditated and didn't spend time in

cleansing themselves and one day they were almost out of Sahaja and they came back only after taking Sahaj treatments." To understand the wonderful curative powers of revered lemons and chillies, whose only side-effects seem to be a life-long addiction and morbid fear of withdrawal, it is necessary to fully comprehend this controlled medical studies titled "The Placebo Effect":"The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in health not attributable to treatment. This effect is believed by many people to be due to the placebo itself in some mysterious way. A placebo (Latin for "I shall please") is a medication or treatment believed by the administrator of the treatment to be inert or innocuous. Placebos may be sugar pills or starch pills. Even "fake" surgery and "fake"psychotherapy are considered placebos.Researchers and medical doctors sometimes give placebos to patients. Anecdotal

evidence for the placebo effect is garnered in this way. Those who believe there is scientific evidence for the placebo effect point to clinical studies, many of which use a control group treated with a placebo. Why an inert substance, or a fake surgery or therapy, would be effective is not known. The psychological theory: it's all in your mind Some believe the placebo effect is psychological, due to a belief in the treatment or to a subjective feeling of improvement. Irving Kirsch, a psychologist at the University of Connecticut, believes that the effectiveness of Prozac and similar drugs may be attributed almost entirely to the placebo effect. He and Guy Sapirstein analyzed 19 clinical trials of antidepressants and concluded that the expectation of improvement, not adjustments in brain chemistry, accounted for 75 percent of the drugs' effectiveness (Kirsch 1998). "The critical factor," says Kirsch, "is our

beliefs about what's going to happen to us. You don't have to rely on drugs to see profound transformation." In an earlier study, Sapirstein analyzed 39 studies, done between 1974 and 1995, of depressed patients treated with drugs, psychotherapy, or a combination of both. He found that 50 percent of the drug effect is due to the placebo response. A person's beliefs and hopes about a treatment, combined with their suggestibility, may have a significant biochemical effect. Sensory experience and thoughts can affect neurochemistry. The body's neurochemical system affects and is affected by other biochemical systems, including the hormonal and immune systems. Thus, it is consistent with current knowledge that a person's hopeful attitude and beliefs may be very important to their physical well-being and recovery from injury or illness. However, it may be that much of the placebo effect is not a matter of mind over

molecules, but of mind over behavior. A part of the behavior of a "sick" person is learned. So is part of the behavior of a person in pain. In short, there is a certain amount of role-playing by ill or hurt people. Role-playing is not the same as faking or malingering. The behavior of sick or injured persons is socially and culturally based to some extent. The placebo effect may be a measurement of changed behavior affected by a belief in the treatment. The changed behavior includes a change in attitude, in what one says about how one feels, and how one acts. It may also affect one's body chemistry. The psychological explanation seems to be the one most commonly believed. Perhaps this is why many people are dismayed when they are told that the effective drug they are taking is a placebo. This makes them think that their problem is "all in their mind" and that there is really nothing wrong with them. Yet, there are too many

studies which have found objective improvements in health from placebos to support the notion that the placebo effect is entirely psychological. Doctors in one study successfully eliminated warts by painting them with a brightly colored, inert dye and promising patients the warts would be gone when the color wore off. In a study of asthmatics, researchers found that they could produce dilation of the airways by simply telling people they were inhaling a bronchiodilator, even when they weren't. Patients suffering pain after wisdom-tooth extraction got just as much relief from a fake application of ultrasound as from a real one, so long as both patient and therapist thought the machine was on. Fifty-two percent of the colitis patients treated with placebo in 11 different trials reported feeling better -- and 50 percent of the inflamed intestines actually looked better when assessed with a sigmoidoscope ("The Placebo

Prescription" by Margaret Talbot, New York Times Magazine, January 9, 2000).* It is unlikely that such effects are purely psychological. But it is not necessarily the case that the placebo is actually effective in such cases. The nature-taking-its-course theory Some believe that at least part of the placebo effect is due to an illness or injury taking its natural course. We often heal spontaneously if we do nothing at all to treat an illness or injury. Furthermore, many disorders, pains and illnesses, wax and wane. What is measured as the placebo effect could be, in many cases, the measurement of natural regression. In short, the placebo may be given credit that is due to Nature. However, spontaneous healing and spontaneous remission of disease cannot explain all the healing or improvement that takes place because of placebos. People who are given no treatment at all often do not do as well as those

given placebos or real medicine and treatment. The process-of-treatment theory Another theory gaining popularity is that a process of treatment that involves showing attention, care, affection, etc., to the patient/subject, a process that is encouraging and hopeful, may itself trigger physical reactions in the body which promote healing. According to Dr. Walter A. Brown, a psychiatrist at Brown University, there is certainly data that suggest that just being in the healing situation accomplishes something. Depressed patients who are merely put on a waiting list for treatment do not do as well as those given placebos. And -- this is very telling, I think -- when placebos are given for pain management, the course of pain relief follows what you would get with an active drug. The peak relief comes about an hour after it's administered, as it does with the real drug, and so on. If placebo analgesia was the equivalent of

giving nothing, you'd expect a more random pattern ("The Placebo Prescription" by Margaret Talbot, New York Times Magazine, January 9, 2000).* Dr. Brown and others believe that the placebo effect is mainly or purely physical and due to physical changes which promote healing or feeling better. It is assumed that the physical changes are not caused by the placebo itself. So, what is the explanatory mechanism for the placebo effect? Some think it is the process of administering it. It is thought that the touching, the caring, the attention, and other interpersonal communication that is part of the controlled study process (or the therapeutic setting), along with the hopefulness and encouragement provided by the experimenter/healer, affect the mood of the subject, which in turn triggers physical changes such as release of endorphins. The process reduces stress by providing hope or reducing uncertainty about what

treatment to take or what the outcome will be. The reduction in stress prevents or slows down further harmful physical changes from occurring. The process-of-treatment hypothesis would explain how inert homeopathic remedies and the questionable therapies of many "alternative" health practitioners are often effective or thought to be effective. It would also explain why pills or procedures used by conventional medicine work until they are shown to be worthless. Forty years ago, a young Seattle cardiologist named Leonard Cobb conducted a unique trial of a procedure then commonly used for angina, in which doctors made small incisions in the chest and tied knots in two arteries to try to increase blood flow to the heart. It was a popular technique -- 90 percent of patients reported that it helped -- but when Cobb compared it with placebo surgery in which he made incisions but did not tie off the arteries, the sham

operations proved just as successful. The procedure, known as internal mammary ligation, was soon abandoned ("The Placebo Prescription" by Margaret Talbot, New York Times Magazine, January 9, 2000).* Of course, spontaneous healing or regression can also adequately explain why homeopathic remedies might appear to be effective. Whether the placebo effect is mainly psychological, misunderstood spontaneous healing, due to showing care and attention, or due to some combination of all three may not be known with complete confidence. The powerful placebo challenged The powerful effect of the placebo is not in doubt. It should be, however, according to Danish researchers Asbjørn Hróbjartssonand Peter C. Götzsche. Their meta-study of 114 studies involving placebos found "little evidence in general that placebos had powerful clinical effects...[and]...compared with no treatment, placebo had no significant effect on binary

outcomes, regardless of whether these outcomes were subjective or objective. For the trials with continuous outcomes, placebo had a beneficial effect, but the effect decreased with increasing sample size, indicating a possible bias related to the effects of small trials ("Is the Placebo Powerless? An Analysis of Clinical Trials Comparing Placebo with No Treatment," The New England Journal of Medicine, May 24, 2001 (Vol. 344, No. 21)." According to Dr. Hróbjartsson, professor of medical philosophy and research methodology at University of Copenhagen, "The high levels of placebo effect which have been repeatedly reported in many articles, in our mind are the result of flawed research methodology."* This claim flies in the face of more than fifty years of research. At the very least, we can expect to see more rigorously designed research projects trying to disprove Hróbjartsson and Götzsche.The origin of the idea

The idea of the powerful placebo in modern times originated with H. K. Beecher. He evaluated over two dozen studies and calculated that about one-third of those in the studies improved due to the placebo effect ("The Powerful Placebo," 1955). Other studies calculate the placebo effect as being even greater than Beecher claimed. For example, studies have shown that placebos are effective in 50 or 60 percent of subjects with certain conditions, e.g., "pain, depression, some heart ailments, gastric ulcers and other stomach complaints."* And, as effective as the new psychotropic drugs seem to be in the treatment of various brain disorders, some researchers maintain that there is not adequate evidence from studies to prove that the new drugs are more effective than placebos. Placebos have even been shown to cause unpleasant side effects. Dermatitis medicamentosa and angioneurotic edema have resulted from placebo therapy,

according to Dodes. There are even reports of people becoming addicted to placebos. The ethical dilemma The power of the placebo effect has led to an ethical dilemma. One should not deceive other people, but one should relieve the pain and suffering of one's patients. Should one use deception to benefit one's patients? Is it unethical for a doctor to knowingly prescribe a placebo without informing the patient? If informing the patient reduces the effectiveness of the placebo, is some sort of deception warranted in order to benefit the patient? Some doctors think it is justified to use a placebo in those types of cases where a strong placebo effect has been shown and where distress is an aggravating factor.* Others think it is always wrong to deceive the patient and that informed consent requires that the patient be told that a treatment is a placebo treatment. Others, especially "alternative" medicine

practitioners, don't even want to know whether a treatment is a placebo or not. Their attitude is that as long as the treatment is effective, who cares if it a placebo? Of course, if the placebo effect is an illusion, then another ethical dilemma arises: should placebos be given if it is known that deception does not really reduce pain or aid in the cure of anything? Are placebos dangerous? While skeptics may reject faith, prayer and "alternative" medical practices such as bioharmonics, chiropractic and homeopathy, such practices may not be without their salutary effects. Clearly, they can't cure cancer or repair a punctured lung, and they might not even prolong life by giving hope and relieving distress as is sometimes thought. But administering useless therapies does involve interacting with the patient in a caring, attentive way, and this can provide some measure of comfort. However, to those who say "what

difference does it make why something works, as long as it seems to work" I reply that it is likely that there is something which works even better, something for the other two-thirds or one-half of humanity who, for whatever reason, cannot be cured or helped by placebos or spontaneous healing or natural regression of their pain. Furthermore, placebos may not always be beneficial or harmless. In addition to adverse side effects, mentioned above, John Dodes notes that Patients can become dependent on nonscientific practitioners who employ placebo therapies. Such patients may be led to believe they're suffering from imagined "reactive" hypoglycemia, nonexistent allergies and yeast infections, dental filling amalgam "toxicity," or that they're under the power of Qi or extraterrestrials. And patients can be led to believe that diseases are only amenable to a specific type of treatment from a specific practitioner (The

Mysterious Placebo by John E. Dodes, Skeptical Inquirer, Jan/Feb 1997).---------------Will SYs finally understand the difference between having faith in chillies and Mother Kundalini? But i have to admit it works both ways. The difference is that the Mother Kundalini does not make you scared of living without treatments, induce fear of bhoots, spiders, cats, bats or make you run hide from this evil world so full of scary entities and wicked characters ................... oh, i forgot to mention this small petty fact - She also rids you of all catches within minutes. Guess SYs do not need to take the placebo after all. But those who need please don't pass your ignorance to others, especially those seeking to join Sahaja Yoga. Is that too much to ask?jagbir

[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , Madhurima M <marycheva>

wrote:

> Dear Jagbirji,

> Thnks a lot for all the trouble you have taken to anwer my mail.

But the question still lies. How do you achieve that state of

surrendering everything to the kundaline when you know your left

swadisthan is catching very badly or your liver is heated up. I

still cannot figure out how did you achieve this state by doing

nothing at all. I mean not taking the normal treatments. I know i

might sound as a " treatment fanatic " but i don't know the other way

out.

> Maybe you should let us know what exactly you did to achieve this

state. I would even like to know how you meditated, where, what did

you say to your Kundalinie, were your eyes closed or open , how were

the vibs when you started doing your meditation and how did they

change. Did you listen to some special bhajans, mantras etc.

> It is not that I want to cross examine you or in any way beating

around the bushes, but I want to know very specifically what did you

exactly do surrender everything to your Kundalini. Because for me to

get into Nirvichara is not so simple. I have to work hard and need

to be disciplined in order to be in Nirvichara during meditation and

without meditation.Don't take this mail as if I'm trying to anyway

hurt you but just want to know the details. I'm a seeker who wants

to achieve his goal and nothing else. This is the only truth which I

can put before.

 

> Much love,

> Madhurima

>

>

 

Dear Madhurima,

 

This is a difficult email to answer because it would seem i have an

exclusive way to meditate and remain both catch-free and in

nirvikalpa. The truth is there is just no exclusive way, i do catch

once in a while but only for a few minutes, and cannot remain very

long in nirvichara.

 

Saying a dozen mantras may make things easier for some, saying just

one also works for others. Listening only to Sahaj bhajhans may

bring joy to most, listening to all may bring ecstasy to some.

Seeking treatments may clear the subtle system problems for many but

leaving it to the kundalini also works just fine. Meditating twice a

day may be compulsory but missing once in a while should not bring

guilt.

 

What i am trying to say is to take it easy and enjoy. Do not feel

guilty or fear you will fall. Don't become rigid and too disciplined.

 

i have never wanted to use my vibrations for mundane things.

Whatever knowledge the vibrations bring must be spontaneous and not

due to my desire/mental need to know. Maybe through too much

practice and attention SYs have become super-sensitive and register

even weak catches very strongly. What you may be thinking as a badly

caught left swadhistan or hot liver may be because your subtle

system is super-sensitive. i may just register the same as mild,

easily cured. But you will need daily footsoaks and ice-packs, and

still not get 'cured' because your subtle system is still able to

pick even very weak signals. That only continues the perpetual cycle

of catch and cure. You are not catching on any chakras but just

having an excellent subtle system that is just too finely tuned.

There is just nothing wrong with your subtle system because i am not

registering any catches from you.

 

But if i had a fine-tuned subtle system or put too much attention on

catches i will definitely register catches strongly everyday, with

no solution in sight. Maybe that is why the senior SY told me that

there is no such thing as being catch-free. Maybe a less finely

tuned subtle system will register catches less. That does not mean

it is defective. Maybe it may be balanced and normal, and not highly

strung and super-sensitive. Think about it Madhurima.

 

jagbir