So where else does the Goddess reside, if not in your own Sahasrara?

[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , A L <vindhyavasinidasi>

wrote:

> >

> > This is a forum where you can speak freely so that

> > SYs are forced to look themselves in the mirror.

> > If you can tell about these negative SYs who hurt

> > you it would help confirm my long-held conviction that

> > the negativity is within.

 

>

> I don't want to say anything bad about these people. I

> am a very sensitive person and my feelings are easily

> hurt. Let's just say that those Sahaja Yogis may be

> right about me. I may have a big ego, conditionings,

> my chakras may be all caught up, but it hurts when

> these things are thrown at my face.

>

 

Thank you Dasi for your kind consideration and humility. Others

would have been less forgiving.

 

It is true that some SYs love boasting about their ability to check

the chakras of others, thinking those 'caught' are negative. What

galls me is these characters are themselves full of catches,

requiring daily ritualistic cleansing for years. Yet these sickly

SYs keep advising the healthy how to heal! Shri Mataji said

that " some people achieve heights very easily, but some

have to work for six or seven months and are still not all right. "

What gives 'sick' SYs working on themselves for more than six months

the authority to order those who have achieved heights to come down

to their level?

 

Shri Mataji has told SYs to stop checking chakras of others and take

care of themselves. This is because people, especially newcomers,

have been hurt by them. Yet these arrogant SYs keep on giving

unsolicited subtle system diagnosis. What can be done to stop this

insensitive practise?

 

i do not mind those free of catches to give advise when required.

This is because i KNOW those caught up are often just registering

their own catches when they give such advise. That is the whole

problem with this collective catching mess. The 'sick' are mentally

sneezing and coughing on each other and everybody is psychologically

diseased. After all, you are also healing others by absorbing the

negativity of others. It is all one huge, futile exercise of catch

consciousness.

 

And when senior SYs proudly proclaim that you will never be free of

catches, chances are you always will remain 'sick'. The whole subtle

system crumbles if you insist that the Mother Kundalini is far

capable of healing. What are SYs going to talk and impress on others

if everyone achieves heights very easily and get healed? Only by

making you guilty of catches can they have control as you beg for

their catch-free enlightenment.

 

Even this catch-free illumination will never come. So throw all

lemons and chillies into the garbage and past ignorance out of the

window. Just ask the Mother Kundalini within to heal.

 

 

> > i also want to know if your present disillusionment

> > is caused more by the treatment of some SYs than the

> > confusion with Shri Mataji.

 

>

> I guess both. Of course it has an effect when people

> make me feel bad. I also wonder why there are lots of

> Sahaja Yogis who seem very hard and cold, especially

> among those who are close to Shri Mataji. Shouldn't

> they be the most angel-like, loving and compassionate

> people on earth?

>

 

i have that same experience with SYs close with Shri Mataji, but my

memories are still painful. One of them is of a SYogini loudly

scolding my 5-year-old son, accusing him of being on drugs just

because she suspected him of scribbled something on the tabla. i

know my son is a gentle soul with a very brave heart, but he still

burst into tears. How often does a stranger scold you so heartlessly?

 

It hurt me more because i witnessed the whole incident from a blind

spot. How could a self-realized soul and woman hurt an innocent

child with so much anger? Are all children who scribble on walls and

floors on drugs!!??? (This SYogini is still very close with Shri

Mataji.)

 

Shouldn't SYs then be the most angel-like, loving and compassionate

people on earth? That is what i thought would be the case in the

beginning. i was so blissed out by my son's daily experiences of

witnessing the Goddess in the Sahasrara that i was awed into

humility. There was so much love, innocence and humbleness in me

that i became subservient to SYs. All i wanted to do was to serve

the devotees of the Shakti for the rest of my life. And SYs were for

years almost weekly served with free, fine food cooked with so much

love. Such was the inspiration of knowing that the Creator really

exists, that there is an eternal afterlife, that we will be judged

by our righteous life on Earth that i was even prepared to wash

their feet, just like Jesus did to His disciples. i though those

longer in Sahaja Yoga would be like me, and definitely better.

 

But in the end all my castles of compassion and dreams of divine

humans vanished. My children were ultimately accused of being

possessed and demonic in nature. Years of my family's unselfish

service to fellow SYs did not even matter - we were evil because our

children witnessed the Shakti ............. against their will.

 

In the end my heart became so filled with pain and hurt the Shakti

within had to act, even though i never asked for help. i just could

not take the pain and disillusionment any more. i wondered how could

such people inherit eternal life.

 

My whole family is so glad to be out of the collective. Even my

wife, one of the most humble beings i have ever met, does not want

to go back and join the collective. She was the one who resisted

breaking off the most but now is convinced that it was the right

move. The Goddess within has healed us and allowed us to continue

this journey. For us it was necessary to leave the collective in

order to be free from all fears and conditioning. Now we only

meditate with the Shakti within. The Goddess has truly removed all

obstacles between myself and Her. The Great Event is a personally

journey with absolutely no intermediaries. Don't let them slow you

down with that excess baggage. Don't give up just because SYs are

not what you thought they would be. If you want to change this world

transform yourself first. Others will follow if you are truly

enlightened ........................ and it shows in kind words and

exemplary deeds.

 

> But my feelings are linked with Shri

> Mataji, too. I just don't see her as the loving and

> compassionate mother. I always hoped that I would be

> one of those who just recognize her, love her and

> surrender their lives to her without any doubts or any

> confusion. I don't know how many times I prayed that I

> would be able to love her like that. I don't know how

> many times I have asked in my meditation if she is the

> Goddess. In the beginning I got no answers, nothing.

> In the end I just felt some sort of a darkness or

> negative feeling.

>

 

Dasi, i have had so much problems with so few SYs over these years.

Even this forum strains my mind and tests my patience at times. Now

imagined what tens of thousands of SYs have been capable of doing

over decades? i mean having to almost daily deal with complaints,

letters, gossip, negativity, in-fighting, power struggles, hate,

stupidity and what not.

 

i learnt to be hard after i discovered that many SYs are not angel-

like, loving and compassionate. Honestly, i do not feel good telling

some members off at this forum. But i have no choice as that is the

only way. Some members may think i am not loving and compassionate.

The same goes for Shri Mataji. If She had not dealt strongly with

some SYs, there will be chaos in Sahaja Yoga. Shri Mataji has also

discovered, just like me, that many SYs are not angel-like, loving

and compassionate.

 

But that does not mean She is not loving or compassionate. Does my

dealing strongly with some members make me insensitive and

inconsiderate? If it does than i will have to keep silent and

tolerate all to protect my image and reputation as a realized soul.

But i am not here to make others respect and admire me, just tell

the truth no matter how ego-bruising and loss of members. i think

the same goes for Shri Mataji and how She deals with difficult

people, and i assure you there are many difficult SYs.

 

Maybe these words from Sir C.P. can throw some light as to how Shri

Mataji has struggled to perform Her duty to the Divine despite all

obstacles:

 

" I'm not standing up because that would create a problem for the

microphone. First of all I'm very honoured, very happy to be here

with my wife, and I am also very, very pleased to see all of you,

see the faces which show love and divinity and dedication to your

Mother. She has been talking about the role of women and that set me

athinking. I began to think of the last 48 years that we have been

married, and I just want to tell you very briefly how She has

performed the role of an ideal wife, an ideal Mother and an ideal

grandmother in the family, besides being the spiritual leader of

Sahaja Yoga.

 

When we got married I belonged to a very conservative family. She

belonged to a very radical family and it was a good complement to

each other. But when She came to my house She behaved as if for

generations She had lived in a very conservative family and pleased

everybody. The old ladies of the house who were looking a little

worried, they thought here's a new lady from another province,

speaking another language, professing another religion, how will She

fit into our family? But what She did was She won over the heart of

everyone by behaving in a very modest way, in a very loving way, in

a very caring way, and I have to admit that She became the favourite

and I was lost.

 

Well that is how our family life began. I was certainly very happy

about it. But then I was a bureaucrat, a civil servant, and

unfortunately given to idea that absolute honesty must be observed,

which meant that we had to live within our means, our salary and all

I had to do was to work in office, and I left all the problems of

the house to my wife. So I said: " Here's the salary, now do what

you can. " And I tell you She managed beautifully within our

means. No possibility of anything going wrong.

 

We had two children, two daughters. She brought them up, and brought

them up extremely well, arranged for their education, arranged for

their marriage. Then they grew up, I didn't know how, for I was from

morning until late evening every day in office but ... and She was

in charge of the house. She looked after not only my daughters, but

I want tell you this. All of us have rich relations and they care

for themselves, take care, and we have in India poor relations as

well, and when you are in a good position the poor relations flock

to you. And they came to our house, children who needed education,

and each one of them (we had some sort of hostel running all the

time) each one of them was looked after by my wife in the same way

as our own daughters; given the same food, given the same affection.

Only She could have done that. And they have grown up, they're now

in so many places. That was the role She played as a mother. Mother

not only to my children, but to the children of the family.

 

And then as we grew further, She had a role to play as my wife. I

held some assignments in government in India and abroad in the

United Nations. When I was Secretary to the Prime Minister of India,

about whom I have written a book now, She was the main motive force

behind me. In fact I wouldn't have gone to Mr Shastri if She had not

insisted that I must go, and I went and served there. Mr Shastri had

very great respect for Her because She was, of course She was

obviously a spiritual person but also a very good mother, a very

good housewife; and he used to ask Her: " How do you run your

house, what are your priorities? " And She would say what She had

to say, and Mr Shastri listened to that.

 

Now as a wife She played that role. When I was working with the

Prime Minister sometimes I would be in the office till midnight. Why

sometimes? Every day. Sometimes till early hours of the morning. But

She supported me. She said, " This is your duty now, duty to your

country, to your Prime Minister. You must work. Don't worry about

the house. Don't worry about the children. I'll take care of

them. "

 

Then I went to United Nations. There again, my goodness me, you have

to take care of one government was bad enough in India, to take care

of 130 governments all over was not easy. Travelling, meeting

people, receptions, dinners, a very busy life. But She stood by me,

and while doing all that She was at the same time promoting Sahaja

Yoga. I don't know how She did it but She has done a wonderful job.

You know I saw Sahaja Yoga beginning with four people in London and

they were wearing jeans, not very clean either. That was the

beginning of Sahaja Yoga. One day I came back home and found a young

boy — I'm talking 1974, — young boy sitting in my drawing

room, and when I entered the house he looked at me as if I was a

stranger, he was the real owner of the house. So I receded. I didn't

quite understand, but what surprised me even more was that he was

wearing my clothes. I rubbed my eyes. I said: " Am I seeing

something real or is it a dream? " Well, then I receded.

 

I came to my wife and I said, " Now who, who is this

gentleman? " So She explained. She said, " You know he's a poor

young boy, and he was almost lying unattended to, unhelped near

Piccadilly Circus. " She had gone out for shopping and She saw him

lying almost in a miserable condition. So She stepped out of the

car, went to that boy, said: " Why are you lying here, are you

alright? " He said no, he was not well at all. She said, " Is

there anyone to take care of you? " He said, " No, there's

none. " She said, " That's awful. " Then She said,

" Okay, hop into the car " , and She brought him home.

 

Then he was given a wash. He had no clothes, so he had to wear my

clothes, and that's how he was wearing my clothes. And then for the

next some weeks he stayed in the house, and there I saw Sahaja Yoga

acting. This boy was suffering from, I think, he was in very bad

shape. Within three, four weeks he blossomed. Another three, four

weeks became healthy person. And then we got to know that he was

from Australia. He was a young engineer who had run away from his

house and was in bad shape. After he was cured he became a very good

person. He came back to Australia, was united with his mother. I

don't know where he is, a Mr Gus, but that was what I saw, the

miracle of Sahaja Yoga, and from those four persons, yes four I

talked to they.....Once I came home and found four persons wearing

jeans, and again I did not know who they were, but they were Sahaja

Yogis, and they were the initial Sahaja Yogis. Well, from them to

this is a marvel.

 

All I can say is despite all Her attention to the family, to me,

(I've been a busy person), She has attended to all the duties of the

family; She has created a new universal family of Sahaja Yoga. Each

Sahaja Yogi in my view is an angel. And I mean this. I mean this

because I have known human beings in the world. The world is

terrible. If you look at newspapers you will see all kinds of horror

stories, but when you meet a Sahaja Yogi, he or she is a very

different person. The face is different, the inner self is

different, the outer self is different. It's another creation. And

She has created thousands and thousands of such persons. Each one of

you is a miracle. You know, it's very difficult to transform human

beings. I have worked in United Nations, in India, for 40 years. I

cannot honestly say that I was able to transform even one human

being. Yes, people followed my example and worked hard, but that's

not transformation. Transformation is what I see in you. And that is

a miracle. That is what She has done. And now a new world is being

created. I sincerely hope that Sahaja Yoga will spread more rapidly.

It has spread very, very fast but it needs to spread very much

faster.

 

And all over the world there's a race between the forces of good and

the forces of evil. You represent the force of good — the forces

of evil outside. Have the heart, have the courage. She, Her

vibrations and your vibrations will, I hope envelop the world and

create a good world, and this bad world will be suppressed, will

disappear. This is all that I can say. I thank you very much for

receiving me here. I'm delighted to be in Australia. I have liked my

visit immensely already. I think in Australia the beautiful thing is

that the advantages of a developed world are present here, but the

heart seems to be very good, very sound, wonderful. You are open-

hearted people, warm people, loving people, and I cannot say how

very, very ... I cannot say adequately how very happy I am and how

very grateful. I thank you, Ma'am, for letting me come to Australia

and I am going to enjoy my stay, so that's all that I can say. "

 

Sir C.P. Srivastava

Melbourne Airport, Australia, February 19, 1995

 

 

Dasi, you don't know how many times you have asked in your

meditation if she is the Goddess. Let me tell you of something

similar.

 

i once told my son to ask Jesus if indeed Shri Mataji is the

Comforter. i told him that although we all know She is, i just want

to ask Him. When Kash meditated and requested permission to approach

Jesus the Goddess gently rejected permission. This incident is one

of those rare occasions when She refused to accommodate a request.

The question was not only frivolous but insulting to the Savior as

well since we all knew She is the Comforter sent by Him.

 

Dasi, i am giving you evidence and testimony that She is the Goddess

within. If i ask Her the same question you did i am sure there will

be no answer. And i don't think She will answer any other question

either. Only the SILENCE answers all questions. Just learn to listen

to IT.

 

 

> > Just want to be sure. You also mentioned that you

> > are/were a SYogini. Are you out/still hanging on/just

> > not sure?

 

>

> I would say that I am out of Sahaja Yoga. But I am

> confused and not sure if I have done the right thing.

>

 

Learn from the mystics banished for what they know and proclaim, not

the ignorant, cowardly priests who rule the collective temples. Even

if you do not remain you must always seek the company of spiritual

people. Do not ever abandon the path to seek the Divine. And seek a

guru or path that embraces all religions, prophets and scriptures.

Seek the Shakti who is entrenched in all traditions. Only after

meeting the Divine Mother is liberation possible. So where else does

the Goddess reside, if not in your own Sahasara?

 

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

Jagbir,

 

Thank you for your kind and encouraging words.

There's something I'd like to comment and ask.

 

 

>Shri Mataji has told SYs to stop checking chakras of

>others and take

>care of themselves. This is because people,

especially >newcomers,

>have been hurt by them. Yet these arrogant SYs keep

on >giving

>unsolicited subtle system diagnosis. What can be done

>to stop this

>insensitive practise?

 

I know what you mean. I did not like that some yogis

were always checking if this or that person is all

right. I am not so egoless that I would not mind my

subtle system being monitored. But although that was

irksome it did not hurt my feelings so much. What hurt

me most was that when I tried to talk about my doubts

and problems and was asking questions I was told that

I am negative. The fact that I have not been able to

love and recognize Shri Mataji and have had bad

feelings about her is too much.

 

 

>i have that same experience with SYs close with Shri

>Mataji, but my

>memories are still painful. One of them is of a

>SYogini loudly

>scolding my 5-year-old son, accusing him of being on

>drugs just

>because she suspected him of scribbled something on

>the tabla. i

>know my son is a gentle soul with a very brave heart,

>but he still

>burst into tears. How often does a stranger scold you

>so heartlessly?

 

I am sorry to hear that. Children who I know scribble

something almost everywhere. I think it a good lesson

for us adults to learn what is really important in

this world, material things or the joy that children

get from their scribbling.

 

>It hurt me more because i witnessed the whole

incident >from a blind

>spot. How could a self-realized soul and woman hurt

an >innocent

>child with so much anger? Are all children who

>scribble on walls and

>floors on drugs!!??? (This SYogini is still very

close >with Shri

>Mataji.)

 

This is what I mean. Maybe that Sahaja Yogini had a

bad day. And some people get easily irritated by

children. But if she is always cold-hearted like that,

does not Shri Mataji's close presence have any effect?

If she gets Mother's love, shouldn't she also emit

Mother's love?

 

>Shouldn't SYs then be the most angel-like, loving and

>compassionate

>people on earth? That is what i thought would be the

>case in the

>beginning. i was so blissed out by my son's daily

>experiences of

>witnessing the Goddess in the Sahasrara that i was

>awed into

>humility. There was so much love, innocence and

>humbleness in me

>that i became subservient to SYs. All i wanted to do

>was to serve

>the devotees of the Shakti for the rest of my life.

>And SYs were for

>years almost weekly served with free, fine food

cooked >with so much

>love. Such was the inspiration of knowing that the

>Creator really

>exists, that there is an eternal afterlife, that we

>will be judged

>by our righteous life on Earth that i was even

>prepared to wash

>their feet, just like Jesus did to His disciples. i

>though those

>longer in Sahaja Yoga would be like me, and

definitely >better.

 

>But in the end all my castles of compassion and

dreams >of divine

>humans vanished. My children were ultimately accused

>of being

>possessed and demonic in nature. Years of my family's

>unselfish

>service to fellow SYs did not even matter - we were

>evil because our

>children witnessed the Shakti ............. against

>their will.

 

How is it possible? Did they ever say why? Does Shri

Mataji know about this and if she knows what is her

opinion?

 

 

>My whole family is so glad to be out of the

>collective. Even my

>wife, one of the most humble beings i have ever met,

>does not want

>to go back and join the collective. She was the one

>who resisted

>breaking off the most but now is convinced that it

was >the right

>move. The Goddess within has healed us and allowed us

>to continue

>this journey. For us it was necessary to leave the

>collective in

>order to be free from all fears and conditioning. Now

>we only

>meditate with the Shakti within.

 

When you say that you only meditate with the Shakti

within, don't you pay any attention to Shri Mataji as

a guru and as an incarnation?

 

 

>i learnt to be hard after i discovered that many SYs

>are not angel-

>like, loving and compassionate.

 

But it is odd...is there no power in the kundalini

awakening then? In the talk by Sir CP that you also

sent here Sir CP said that all the Sahaja Yogis are

like angels, that Shri Mataji has transformed them. Is

Sir CP wrong? Is Shri Mataji not able to transfrom her

disciples?

 

Honestly, i do not >feel good telling

>some members off at this forum. But i have no choice

>as that is the

>only way. Some members may think i am not loving and

>compassionate.

>The same goes for Shri Mataji. If She had not dealt

>strongly with

>some SYs, there will be chaos in Sahaja Yoga. Shri

>>Mataji discovered, just like me, that many SYs are

>not angel-like, loving

>and compassionate.

 

But she still has so many hard and cold people around

her. She has not dealt with them strongly.

 

 

>Dasi, you don't know how many times you have asked in

>your

>meditation if she is the Goddess. Let me tell you of

>something

>similar.

 

>i once told my son to ask Jesus if indeed Shri Mataji

>is the

>Comforter. i told him that although we all know She

>is, i just want

>to ask Him. When Kash meditated and requested

>permission to approach

>Jesus the Goddess gently rejected permission. This

>incident is one

>of those rare occasions when She refused to

>accommodate a request.

>The question was not only frivolous but insulting to

>the Savior as

>well since we all knew She is the Comforter sent by

>Him.

 

But I don't! And Sahaja Yogis (like the one here) told

me to ask that question. Now you say that these

questions should not be asked. Why did everybody else

get some great answer when they asked that question?

Does the Goddess answer them but not us? How is it

possible? Are those answers Sahaja Yogis get just

imagination?

 

>Dasi, i am giving you evidence and testimony that She

>is the Goddess

>within. If i ask Her the same question you did i am

>sure there will

>be no answer. And i don't think She will answer any

>other question

>either. Only the SILENCE answers all questions. Just

>learn to listen

>to IT.

 

But I do listen to the silence. I feel that the

Goddess comes to me in silence and emits love,

understanding...it is like merging with the whole

Universe. She IS the silence. Still I don't see the

connection between the silence and Shri Mataji. On the

contrary, Shri Mataji takes me AWAY from it.

 

 

>Learn from the mystics banished for what they know

and >proclaim, not

>the ignorant, cowardly priests who rule the

collective >temples. Even

>if you do not remain you must always seek the company

>of spiritual

>people.

 

The problem is that after being in Sahaja Yoga I am

afraid of most spiritual or religious people. It is

difficult to find people who are spiritual and still

humane.

 

Dasi

 

 

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[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , A L <vindhyavasinidasi>

wrote:

>

> Jagbir,

>

> Thank you for your kind and encouraging words.

> There's something I'd like to comment and ask.

>

>

> >Shri Mataji has told SYs to stop checking chakras of

> >others and take

> >care of themselves. This is because people,

> especially >newcomers,

> >have been hurt by them. Yet these arrogant SYs keep

> on >giving

> >unsolicited subtle system diagnosis. What can be done

> >to stop this

> >insensitive practise?

>

> I know what you mean. I did not like that some yogis

> were always checking if this or that person is all

> right. I am not so egoless that I would not mind my

> subtle system being monitored. But although that was

> irksome it did not hurt my feelings so much. What hurt

> me most was that when I tried to talk about my doubts

> and problems and was asking questions I was told that

> I am negative. The fact that I have not been able to

> love and recognize Shri Mataji and have had bad

> feelings about her is too much.

>

 

There is nothing i can do to make you change your feelings about

Her. You have not been able to understand what it takes to transform

humans i.e. dealing with all sorts of characters. There is bound to

be conflicts in any human organization. How they are resolved is

subjective. What may be regarded as enlightenment by some may be

viewed as high-handedness by others. Charging a few thousands

dollars for a series of mantras or scaling up the Scientology grades

may be reasonable for many but charging $108 for pujas may be

highway robbery to others. It is all in your mind.

 

>

> >i have that same experience with SYs close with Shri

> >Mataji, but my

> >memories are still painful. One of them is of a

> >SYogini loudly

> >scolding my 5-year-old son, accusing him of being on

> >drugs just

> >because she suspected him of scribbled something on

> >the tabla. i

> >know my son is a gentle soul with a very brave heart,

> >but he still

> >burst into tears. How often does a stranger scold you

> >so heartlessly?

>

> I am sorry to hear that. Children who I know scribble

> something almost everywhere. I think it a good lesson

> for us adults to learn what is really important in

> this world, material things or the joy that children

> get from their scribbling.

>

> >It hurt me more because i witnessed the whole

> incident >from a blind

> >spot. How could a self-realized soul and woman hurt

> an >innocent

> >child with so much anger? Are all children who

> >scribble on walls and

> >floors on drugs!!??? (This SYogini is still very

> close >with Shri

> >Mataji.)

>

> This is what I mean. Maybe that Sahaja Yogini had a

> bad day. And some people get easily irritated by

> children. But if she is always cold-hearted like that,

> does not Shri Mataji's close presence have any effect?

> If she gets Mother's love, shouldn't she also emit

> Mother's love?

 

 

The vast majority of SYoginis are loving, nurturing and

compassionate. That was the only incident i had of a negative

SYogini. Yes, maybe she may have had a bad day but i was shocked at

her behavior. But picking one SYogini and questioning why she cannot

emit Mother's Love is asking for way too much. It is just like

looking at thousands of shining stars and picking one that has less

lustre, and wondering what went wrong.

 

You should know that Shri Mataji has transformed tens of thousands

of people to live better, spiritual lives. Putting our attention on

a few fallen ones will always create doubts in our minds about Shri

Mataji abilities.

 

>

> >Shouldn't SYs then be the most angel-like, loving and

> >compassionate

> >people on earth? That is what i thought would be the

> >case in the

> >beginning. i was so blissed out by my son's daily

> >experiences of

> >witnessing the Goddess in the Sahasrara that i was

> >awed into

> >humility. There was so much love, innocence and

> >humbleness in me

> >that i became subservient to SYs. All i wanted to do

> >was to serve

> >the devotees of the Shakti for the rest of my life.

> >And SYs were for

> >years almost weekly served with free, fine food

> cooked >with so much

> >love. Such was the inspiration of knowing that the

> >Creator really

> >exists, that there is an eternal afterlife, that we

> >will be judged

> >by our righteous life on Earth that i was even

> >prepared to wash

> >their feet, just like Jesus did to His disciples. i

> >though those

> >longer in Sahaja Yoga would be like me, and

> definitely >better.

>

> >But in the end all my castles of compassion and

> dreams >of divine

> >humans vanished. My children were ultimately accused

> >of being

> >possessed and demonic in nature. Years of my family's

> >unselfish

> >service to fellow SYs did not even matter - we were

> >evil because our

> >children witnessed the Shakti ............. against

> >their will.

>

> How is it possible? Did they ever say why? Does Shri

> Mataji know about this and if she knows what is her

> opinion?

>

 

This is a long story that is still unfolding.

 

 

>

> >My whole family is so glad to be out of the

> >collective. Even my

> >wife, one of the most humble beings i have ever met,

> >does not want

> >to go back and join the collective. She was the one

> >who resisted

> >breaking off the most but now is convinced that it

> was >the right

> >move. The Goddess within has healed us and allowed us

> >to continue

> >this journey. For us it was necessary to leave the

> >collective in

> >order to be free from all fears and conditioning. Now

> >we only

> >meditate with the Shakti within.

>

> When you say that you only meditate with the Shakti

> within, don't you pay any attention to Shri Mataji as

> a guru and as an incarnation?

>

 

No - there is nothing external to pay attention to. i just meditate

on the Adi Shakti within my Sahasrara.

 

>

> >i learnt to be hard after i discovered that many SYs

> >are not angel-

> >like, loving and compassionate.

>

> But it is odd...is there no power in the kundalini

> awakening then? In the talk by Sir CP that you also

> sent here Sir CP said that all the Sahaja Yogis are

> like angels, that Shri Mataji has transformed them. Is

> Sir CP wrong? Is Shri Mataji not able to transfrom her

> disciples?

>

 

As i said before most SYs are kind, considerate and loving. Yes, Sir

CP said that all the Sahaja Yogis are like angels and Shri Mataji

has transformed them. i don't see anything false about this

statement. Can you name me one guru/religious organization that has

been able to make their followers unconditionally embrace all

religions, ther messengers and scriptures? How is it possible for so

many SYs who were former drunks, drug adicts, social misfits,

hippies etc. to give up all these vices and believe in the Divine?

Why do you feel Sir CP is wrong and Shri Mataji is not able to

transform her disciples? It just does not make sense.

 

 

> Honestly, i do not >feel good telling

> >some members off at this forum. But i have no choice

> >as that is the

> >only way. Some members may think i am not loving and

> >compassionate.

> >The same goes for Shri Mataji. If She had not dealt

> >strongly with

> >some SYs, there will be chaos in Sahaja Yoga. Shri

> >>Mataji discovered, just like me, that many SYs are

> >not angel-like, loving

> >and compassionate.

>

> But she still has so many hard and cold people around

> her. She has not dealt with them strongly.

>

 

i wonder why you think they must be dealt strongly. Did they murder,

rape or embezzle? What is the seriousness of their crimes that has

left you unsatisfied? Have you witnessed them first-hand or just

depending on rumours and hearsay?

 

Shri Mataji has expelled a number of leaders from Sahaja Yoga for

wrongdoings. Are you not satisfied by Her having the guts to expell

those capable of damaging Sahaja Yoga once out of the organization?

Why do you think you know better?

 

>

> >Dasi, you don't know how many times you have asked in

> >your

> >meditation if she is the Goddess. Let me tell you of

> >something

> >similar.

>

> >i once told my son to ask Jesus if indeed Shri Mataji

> >is the

> >Comforter. i told him that although we all know She

> >is, i just want

> >to ask Him. When Kash meditated and requested

> >permission to approach

> >Jesus the Goddess gently rejected permission. This

> >incident is one

> >of those rare occasions when She refused to

> >accommodate a request.

> >The question was not only frivolous but insulting to

> >the Savior as

> >well since we all knew She is the Comforter sent by

> >Him.

>

> But I don't! And Sahaja Yogis (like the one here) told

> me to ask that question. Now you say that these

> questions should not be asked. Why did everybody else

> get some great answer when they asked that question?

> Does the Goddess answer them but not us? How is it

> possible? Are those answers Sahaja Yogis get just

> imagination?

>

 

They are ALL asking the vibrations and that is how they get answers.

i am surprised that you did not know this fundamental fact.

 

> >Dasi, i am giving you evidence and testimony that She

> >is the Goddess

> >within. If i ask Her the same question you did i am

> >sure there will

> >be no answer. And i don't think She will answer any

> >other question

> >either. Only the SILENCE answers all questions. Just

> >learn to listen

> >to IT.

>

> But I do listen to the silence. I feel that the

> Goddess comes to me in silence and emits love,

> understanding...it is like merging with the whole

> Universe. She IS the silence. Still I don't see the

> connection between the silence and Shri Mataji. On the

> contrary, Shri Mataji takes me AWAY from it.

>

 

If you are truly in Silence nothing can take you away from anything.

Shri Mataji IS the incarantion of the Goddess within. After 10 years

and thousands of visits in the Sahasrara there is no way anyone can

demolish this Truth. There is just no way any human can do so,

unless of course they just do not want to believe. They must

logically deny all the evidence i have presented so far and will

present in the future. There is just no way anyone can do so.

Whether humans believe or not is immaterial. In the end it is the

Divine Message that matters and you know what it is. Denying that

Shri Mataji is the Goddess does nothing to diminish that Message. It

will stand on this Earth as long as it exists!

 

>

> >Learn from the mystics banished for what they know

> and >proclaim, not

> >the ignorant, cowardly priests who rule the

> collective >temples. Even

> >if you do not remain you must always seek the company

> >of spiritual

> >people.

>

> The problem is that after being in Sahaja Yoga I am

> afraid of most spiritual or religious people. It is

> difficult to find people who are spiritual and still

> humane.

>

 

It is the Divine Message that matters after all. You are free to do

as you wish.

 

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

Jagbir,

 

I feel that you got angy with me and now make me feel

ignorant and stupid. Maybe you are right about that,

but I am not revengeful like you suggested. And why

tell me first that this is a safe place to talk when

your reaction to my doubts and questions is just the

same as those Sahaja Yogis' who hurt me? Do you think

that after one nice and kind message my doubts will be

cleared just like that and suddenly I start feeling

positive about Shri Mataji?

 

I don't understand some other things either. First you

say that you are disappointed with Sahaja Yogis and

don't want to be in the collective. Now you say that

you have only met one negative Sahaja Yogini and most

Sahaja Yogis are just like angels. If they are, why

are you out of the collective then? Didn't Shri Mataji

say that it is important to be in the collective?

Don't her words matter?

 

Dasi

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

shriadishakti , A L <vindhyavasinidasi>

wrote:

>

> Jagbir,

>

> I feel that you got angy with me and now make me feel

> ignorant and stupid. Maybe you are right about that,

> but I am not revengeful like you suggested. And why

> tell me first that this is a safe place to talk when

> your reaction to my doubts and questions is just the

> same as those Sahaja Yogis' who hurt me? Do you think

> that after one nice and kind message my doubts will be

> cleared just like that and suddenly I start feeling

> positive about Shri Mataji?

>

 

Dasi,

 

Why are you so sure that i am angry with you? How have i made you

into an ignorant and stupid person? If you are going to be so

sensitive then it will be difficult to be honest and truthful

because the ego gets bruised.

 

So what made you feel ignorant and stupid, and think that i was

angry?

 

------------

 

>

> >i learnt to be hard after i discovered that many SYs

> >are not angel-

> >like, loving and compassionate.

>

> But it is odd...is there no power in the kundalini

> awakening then? In the talk by Sir CP that you also

> sent here Sir CP said that all the Sahaja Yogis are

> like angels, that Shri Mataji has transformed them. Is

> Sir CP wrong? Is Shri Mataji not able to transform her

> disciples?

>

 

As i said before most SYs are kind, considerate and loving. Yes, Sir

CP said that all the Sahaja Yogis are like angels and Shri Mataji

has transformed them. i don't see anything false about this

statement. Can you name me one guru/religious organization that has

been able to make their followers unconditionally embrace all

religions, their messengers and scriptures? How is it possible for so

many SYs who were former drunks, drug addicts, social misfits,

hippies etc. to give up all these vices and believe in the Divine?

Why do you feel Sir CP is wrong and Shri Mataji is not able to

transform her disciples? It just does not make sense.

 

-----------

 

Maybe the above answer made you feel that way. But what is so

hurtful about it? You are doubting Shri Mataji is able to transform

humans, even implying that Sir CP could be wrong! i am trying to

make you understand that is just not true because Sir CP just does

not make bombastic statements. He is a very distinguished diplomat

who served as Secretary General of the UN International Maritime

Organization for a record term of 16 years. Sir C.P. Srivastava is

himself distinguished not only as India's most decorated civil

servant but also as the first Indian to be knighted by Queen

Elizabeth II for his contribution to the United Nations. You just

don't accuse such eminent beings of being wrong, especially when he

has been married to Her for more than half a century. He knows Shri

Mataji far more than anyone else. That is why his words carry weight

and we have to respect his point of view.

 

However i think you are doubting him because of he used the

word " angel " . Perhaps that is all there it to it. But " angel " is

just a figure of speech. And Sir CP says they are LIKE angels, not

angels. Please try to understand what people are trying to say when

such descriptive terms are used. Does President Bush's " axis of

evil " make all Iraqis, Iranians and North Koreans into wicked

beings? Does greeting others with " Good Morning " make the morning

better or subject to arguments? They are all figures of speech.

A figure of speech, sometimes termed a rhetorical figure or device,

or elocution, is a word or phrase that departs from straightforward,

literal language. Figures of speech are often used and crafted for

emphasis, freshness of expression, or clarity. However, clarity may

also suffer from their use when Oprah Winfrey, along with millions

of others, say so often " You are an angel. " At least Sir CP was more

precise, truthful and less flattering when he used the term " like

angels " .

 

-------------

 

> But she still has so many hard and cold people around

> her. She has not dealt with them strongly.

>

 

i wonder why you think they must be dealt strongly. Did they murder,

rape or embezzle? What is the seriousness of their crimes that has

left you unsatisfied? Have you witnessed them first-hand or just

depending on rumours and hearsay?

 

Shri Mataji has expelled a number of leaders from Sahaja Yoga for

wrongdoings. Are you not satisfied by Her having the guts to expell

those capable of damaging Sahaja Yoga once out of the organization?

Why do you think you know better?

 

-----------

 

i think you are very judgmental when you say " she still has so many

hard and cold people around

her. She has not dealt with them strongly. " In fact you are accusing

all of them of some imaginary crime which, in your case, is being

hard and cold. Maybe your comprehension of " hard and cold " may

actually be a case of quiet, stoic, meditative individuals. Have you

met all of them personally? Maybe they are busy carrying out their

duties. Maybe they have met funny people and try not to waste their

energies when it can be better used. There are so many reasons and

we are just speculating. For all we know they may actually be very

warm, nice and friendly people. The video tapes of pujas and public

programs are proof of what i am saying. Where are the " many hard and

cold people around her " that you have seen? Yes, many one or two may

be hard and cold and that is a big MAYBE. But you are speaking of

many hard and cold people. This is just not true Dasi.

 

Now i am wondering why you want them to be punished and that Shri

Mataji must deal with them strongly. What have they done wrong? Why

do you feel they must be punished? Why do you think you know better?

 

If asking you to justify your accusations with solid facts make you

think i am angry, what can i really ask you then? And the fact is

that i am not. i am just asking questions that strip accusations of

falsehood and expose the naked truth. Please do not expect me to

butter you just to make you believe in Shri Mataji.

 

> I don't understand some other things either. First you

> say that you are disappointed with Sahaja Yogis and

> don't want to be in the collective. Now you say that

> you have only met one negative Sahaja Yogini and most

> Sahaja Yogis are just like angels. If they are, why

> are you out of the collective then? Didn't Shri Mataji

> say that it is important to be in the collective?

> Don't her words matter?

>

>

 

i am very disappointed with SYs because they do not have the courage

and conviction to announce the Last Judgment and Resurrection. i am

also very concerned about the way they put so much emphasis on

cleansing chakras and treatments. i am appalled by the fear

exhibited by some SYs regarding all types of evil entities - cats,

bats, bhoots, spiders and what not.

 

Yes, i met only one negative SY because of what she did. Perhaps she

has improved since. My definition of " negative' may not be what

others think it is. We will start splitting hairs is we try to argue

about this.

 

Most SYs are LIKE angels, not angels and don't get me wrong this

time. All humans who try to live a honest righteous life, believe in

God and love ALL others are LIKE angels. i am sure millions of

priests, pastors, reverends, bishops, popes, rabbis, clerics, imams,

mullahs, shaikhs, ulema, ayatollahs, gurus, swamis, pandits,

brahmins, acaryas, bhagwans, granthis, gianis, lamas, monks, dalai

lamas have described humans as angels. So please do not crucify me

if i think SYs are like angels, not angels.

 

i came out of the collective because it was necessary for me to heal

myself. When others think your children are possessed for having

that cosmic vision it is time to protect your family by isolation.

Moreover my views are very strong and opposed to what SYs are doing

to spread the advent of Shri Mataji. At the time i leaving i was

already begin to argue and question the integrity of SYs. i still am.

 

Yes, Shri Mataji did say to be collective. This is crucial for

initial growth. Once the kundalini is established you have to

ascend. It becomes necessary to be in Collective Consciousness. Many

SYs are still in local collective consciousness. They still have not

understood what She means by being collective. Shri Mataji has said

exactly what i am telling you. Yes, Her words do matter. It all

depends on how you comprehend their deeper meanings. That is why it

is necessary to listen to Her tapes many times ...................

unless you depend on the SILENCE by meditating on Her in the

Sahasrara. The SILENCE will teach you the true meaning of being

collective.

 

jagbir