Guest guest Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 shriadishakti , Avnish Bhagat <avnishbhagat> wrote: > Dear Jane, > > Please dont get offended by Calugar. He does not > intend to abuse/insult you in any manner. His english > is not very good and when he writes he assumes he is > having a conversation with you. Unfortunately, written > communication is devoid of voice modulation and facial > expression. > .....Avnish,my pranaam to you.You are the first one to recognize that I use the spoken language in my posts.And when I write to somebody,I usually see them,and give them hidden messages between words...They just have to look for them,to find them... Sincerely,danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Hello Danny I am glad you wrote this, as I have just read "Calugar's" last posting to me (or rather the last one I have just found in my "in box" and despite all my awareness of "the ego" (ie my own!) and how it hates to be confunted, and is all too ready to attack anyone or anything who tries to "cure" it - I was so "naffed off" by the tone of this email that I was half in a mind to just delete all the other emails from this group and send an email to Jagbir telling I had a high respect and admiration for him, but I did not find this group at all "helpful" and "goodbye!" Re: the apparent lack of compassion - all I can say, as I tried to explain to someone on the group recently, is that as I am now aware that I see many things very differently to many people around me (they literally do not appear to "see" or "hear" what I see and hear, and as I certainly do not think that I have reached the pinacle of compassion or understanding - the only way I can "make sense of things" is in thinking that there are other "beings" around me who actually see and hear more than I do, but as I can't see/hear things in their terms, because I am not on their level, instead I see them as having a "lack of compassion" - Does this make any sense? I fully understand what you mean about "love" I see how transient it is - and how "comicaltrue love" is to me in romantic terms, in this life - I have a spinal deformity and another truely horrible physical problem (which I certainly don't want to go into here - although it is not "noticeable") - please - no emails from anyone in this group saying "You got this thing because of wrong things you did in past lives - it is karma- you desereve it" words to which effect a most "delightful" SY lady whom I did not know - once turned and said to me at an event I attended in Regents Park in London (she didn't know about the "hidden" thing - just saw the spinal deformity - and I had merely turned and smiled at her!). Simply because, as I am seen to be "unlovable" in romantic terms, because of looking "ugly" re the deformity - I also know that on this Earth in flesh and blood terms, were I to meet the kindest, sweetest, all compassionate man in the world who fell madly "in love" with me - were he a "dwarf" - I could not "love" him back! Hense, this implies to me that the madness of the "transient world" - we can only "fall in love" with those who "look" ok to us, THEN, we will consider their "depth of soul" etc - and the depth of our love may well depend on them staying looking ok, remaining "mentally ok" etc - otherwise we might suddenly find we have "fallen out of love" with them and suddenly "fallen madly in love" with someone else - (who are purely by "coincidence") years younger and more beautiful! (of course it was their "pure soul" which we "fell in love" with!). Will respond to your email again later - but thanks very much for this - if you hadn't sent this I would not be sending any more emails to this group! The only thing that confuses me is - wasn't it "Danny" that got me "rather cross" in the first place?!!!! Jane P x - Avnish Bhagat shriadishakti Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:06 AM Re: [shriadishakti] Re: Sensation (Jane Pickup) Dear Jane,Please dont get offended by Calugar. He does notintend to abuse/insult you in any manner. His englishis not very good and when he writes he assumes he ishaving a conversation with you. Unfortunately, writtencommunication is devoid of voice modulation and facialexpression. As for your thoughts on the lack of compassion. Thisis a really difficult one to explain. You'd reallyhave to fully understand that this is a transientworld. Absolutely everything that you see around youis temporary/ephemeral in nature. Be it buildings, thechildren you care for, solidiers in a war, your car.Anything and everything is temporary. Even theemotions we go through are like passing ripples withno truth in them. To elucidate, you can look at thenumerous couples who fall so madly in love that theyare willing to die for each other. The emotion seemsso true and so deep. Yet, look at the same couple afew years later as they tear each other apart with themost abusive language in opposite parts of acourtroom!While not apparent initially, Sahaja Yoga aims toslowly detach you from this temporary world. It worksslowly and surely to reveal the reality of things.SY's do not lack compassion, they will do the sameactions that any other caring human will do, the onlything is that they will do it without atachment andtherefore emotion. The hungry child you feed today maywell starve tomorrow. Fine, so your compassion knowsno bounds and you'll adopt him, but what can you do ifanother tragedy strikes when you are not taking care?How many will you save? And to what end? All thepeople you save will die anyways, whether now orlater. IS life really so much fun that they must havea couple of years more on planet earth? You yourselfsay your life is not easy, not by far. Its time yourealised that none of our lives were easy either. Wehave ALL gone through untold misery, trauma, lack ofdirection, worries, grief...you name it. All of us.But that was till we found Sahaja Yoga. I can go on explaining till eternity, but I doubt youwill be able to understand. The ONLY way that you canis through meditation, and that too Sahaja Yogamditation. I am well versed in lots of other energysciences, but trust me, they dont even touch the tipof the iceberg. All the other ways, might give yousensations and even temporary results, but from what iknow they are based on half truths and unverifiedfacts. No one has the complete knowledge. It is onlyhere in sahaja yoga that you will find it. It is notin a book though and it is not on the internet. Thetext might be there but it will only make sense to youas you evolve and reach the point where you cancomprehend it.I strongly recommend that you worry about nothing elseexcept your growth in Sahaja Yoga, you will besurprised to see that your own life will work out sobeautifully and so will the lives of people you areconcerned about.--- Jane Pickup <jane.pickup1 wrote:> Hello Danny> > I only put "Hi" when I am not sure who I am> responding to! I wonder if you see me as a very> "superficial" sort of person? I can assure you this> is far from the case! I assumed whist in Sahaj Yoga> that as there was so much said about achieving> "thoughtless awareness" and people telling me they> had achieved it and "gone collective" and how> blissful this was, that it must be some kind of> desirable state to be in? Re: No one asked me to> believe in kundalini - firstly I wasn't saying I> didn't believe in it - just that my experience of it> (what I assume was it - moving up within me on my> first SY meditation) did not appear to take the> normal SY manner of (from what people said) was> coming out of the top of the head in the form of a> cool breeze.I think it is unfair of you to kind of> assume I "don't believe in anything at all" (if this> is what you are implying?) - again I wonder if you> think I am some kind of very superficial woman who> has had a really easy life and is now "toying" with> the spiritual side of things? I have had a very> difficult life and right from being a child I have> been questioning why I/we are here and what goes on,> etc.> > This has led me to some answers. I now believe, for> example, that third world poverty is criminal when> we are so affluent in the West and that the arms> trade is criminal. I can no longer just "get on with> life" and not try to do something to protest against> this and change things. Ideally I would pack up and> go to work for nothing in Africa. I don't seem to be> able to do this. So I have just been to an anti war> group after work that is not that easy for me to get> to and is almost depressing when we consider how few> of us now bother to even attend, and how little> chance we appear to have of changing things, yet one> or two of us have some kind of faith that things> might chance one day. If I get reprimanded for> belonging to such a group (ie anti-war group) by> people on this list, I shall have to leave and> decide that I was right to have left SY and that I> do not understand it. I don't mind accepting> criticism as I am becoming more and more aware of> the snares of the ego but I really don't understand> the apparent lack of compassion I seemed to come> across whilst attending meetings in SY and have seen> some evidence of in this group. So, I BELIEVE in and> am working towards, despite this appearing to be> against all "odds" - a fair and equal and peaceful> world, where we in the West care more about a> child's life, health and decent education, etc, than> our own selfish and trivial "comforts." At the same> time, I have to try not to feel "judgmental" and> superior to lots of other people around me who do> not seem to see thing like this. I also appear to> have had some quite different experiences to some> people in this SY discussion group - which I neither> apologise for nor agree to dismiss as not being true> for me - I am however prepared to accept feedback -> even of a negative nature (as long as not abusive!)> so that I can learn and grow!> > Jane P> - > calugar22 > shriadishakti > Monday, January 10, 2005 3:57 PM> [shriadishakti] Re: Sensation / Catch /> Or Desease> > > > shriadishakti , "Jane> Pickup"> <jane.pickup1@b...> wrote:> > Hi> > > > It would be wonderful to experience "thoughtless> awareness" which I> have certainly not achieved, but if Anil IS> experiencing what I am> experiencing (it may be quite different) this is> nothing to do with> "thoughts" - it is a physical process that seems> to be going on. I> personally find it hard to believe that the> kundalini can just shoot> up from the base charka and emerge out of the top> of the head in one> moment of "self realisation." > >.................................................................> Hi,Jane..(Unlike you,I address people by their> names,but you just say> Hi..to whom you say Hi?..just curious)> > In the first, why do you think it would be> wonderful to experience> ,,thoughtless awareness,,..maybe it is something> very horrible ..how> do you know it will be beautiful?..Please> elaborate this subject,cas'> I don't get it.Second,nobody asked you to believe> in Kundalini.Did> I?..Jane...even if I did,how can I prove> it?..talking you under the> table about it?..the fact that you find hard to> believe whatever,has> no meaning to me.It's not the point.I even didn't> believe in GOD> before sahaja.I was raised in a strict communist> regime,where the> notion of GOD was banned.What is the point of> telling me about what> you don't believe?...tell me in what YOU> believe,then I could> understand you.By the way,do you believe in> something,or anything at> all?..just curious. > It comes to the ,pure desire,,...Jane.The desire> to find the truth.The> law of Karma proclaims that all the desires have> to be fulfilled on> this plane,so we might know the good and the> bad,and make a choice.Do> not ever tell me about what you don't> believe...tell me in WHAT you> believe,Jane Pickup. > Sincerely,danny> > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 HI Avnish/Danny (I get confused!) (Second Resonse!) The only thing (well, maybe!) that I wish to dispute with you concerns "the babies" The hungry child you feed today maywell starve tomorrow. Yes, but poor babies - should we not feed them every day so that there will be no "hungry tomorrow" for them? Poor babies - I don't care what they may have done in the past, they don't deserve this - to come into this world and to suffer - they might suffer through direct starvation/being born into "the Third World" etc - or they might suffer by being born into a greedy, empty "first world" where they are told so many lies - how can they "remember" what is the truth? I love babies so much these days - I really can't bare to see them suffer. - Avnish Bhagat shriadishakti Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:06 AM Re: [shriadishakti] Re: Sensation (Jane Pickup) Dear Jane,Please dont get offended by Calugar. He does notintend to abuse/insult you in any manner. His englishis not very good and when he writes he assumes he ishaving a conversation with you. Unfortunately, writtencommunication is devoid of voice modulation and facialexpression. As for your thoughts on the lack of compassion. Thisis a really difficult one to explain. You'd reallyhave to fully understand that this is a transientworld. Absolutely everything that you see around youis temporary/ephemeral in nature. Be it buildings, thechildren you care for, solidiers in a war, your car.Anything and everything is temporary. Even theemotions we go through are like passing ripples withno truth in them. To elucidate, you can look at thenumerous couples who fall so madly in love that theyare willing to die for each other. The emotion seemsso true and so deep. Yet, look at the same couple afew years later as they tear each other apart with themost abusive language in opposite parts of acourtroom!While not apparent initially, Sahaja Yoga aims toslowly detach you from this temporary world. It worksslowly and surely to reveal the reality of things.SY's do not lack compassion, they will do the sameactions that any other caring human will do, the onlything is that they will do it without atachment andtherefore emotion. The hungry child you feed today maywell starve tomorrow. Fine, so your compassion knowsno bounds and you'll adopt him, but what can you do ifanother tragedy strikes when you are not taking care?How many will you save? And to what end? All thepeople you save will die anyways, whether now orlater. IS life really so much fun that they must havea couple of years more on planet earth? You yourselfsay your life is not easy, not by far. Its time yourealised that none of our lives were easy either. Wehave ALL gone through untold misery, trauma, lack ofdirection, worries, grief...you name it. All of us.But that was till we found Sahaja Yoga. I can go on explaining till eternity, but I doubt youwill be able to understand. The ONLY way that you canis through meditation, and that too Sahaja Yogamditation. I am well versed in lots of other energysciences, but trust me, they dont even touch the tipof the iceberg. All the other ways, might give yousensations and even temporary results, but from what iknow they are based on half truths and unverifiedfacts. No one has the complete knowledge. It is onlyhere in sahaja yoga that you will find it. It is notin a book though and it is not on the internet. Thetext might be there but it will only make sense to youas you evolve and reach the point where you cancomprehend it.I strongly recommend that you worry about nothing elseexcept your growth in Sahaja Yoga, you will besurprised to see that your own life will work out sobeautifully and so will the lives of people you areconcerned about.--- Jane Pickup <jane.pickup1 wrote:> Hello Danny> > I only put "Hi" when I am not sure who I am> responding to! I wonder if you see me as a very> "superficial" sort of person? I can assure you this> is far from the case! I assumed whist in Sahaj Yoga> that as there was so much said about achieving> "thoughtless awareness" and people telling me they> had achieved it and "gone collective" and how> blissful this was, that it must be some kind of> desirable state to be in? Re: No one asked me to> believe in kundalini - firstly I wasn't saying I> didn't believe in it - just that my experience of it> (what I assume was it - moving up within me on my> first SY meditation) did not appear to take the> normal SY manner of (from what people said) was> coming out of the top of the head in the form of a> cool breeze.I think it is unfair of you to kind of> assume I "don't believe in anything at all" (if this> is what you are implying?) - again I wonder if you> think I am some kind of very superficial woman who> has had a really easy life and is now "toying" with> the spiritual side of things? I have had a very> difficult life and right from being a child I have> been questioning why I/we are here and what goes on,> etc.> > This has led me to some answers. I now believe, for> example, that third world poverty is criminal when> we are so affluent in the West and that the arms> trade is criminal. I can no longer just "get on with> life" and not try to do something to protest against> this and change things. Ideally I would pack up and> go to work for nothing in Africa. I don't seem to be> able to do this. So I have just been to an anti war> group after work that is not that easy for me to get> to and is almost depressing when we consider how few> of us now bother to even attend, and how little> chance we appear to have of changing things, yet one> or two of us have some kind of faith that things> might chance one day. If I get reprimanded for> belonging to such a group (ie anti-war group) by> people on this list, I shall have to leave and> decide that I was right to have left SY and that I> do not understand it. I don't mind accepting> criticism as I am becoming more and more aware of> the snares of the ego but I really don't understand> the apparent lack of compassion I seemed to come> across whilst attending meetings in SY and have seen> some evidence of in this group. So, I BELIEVE in and> am working towards, despite this appearing to be> against all "odds" - a fair and equal and peaceful> world, where we in the West care more about a> child's life, health and decent education, etc, than> our own selfish and trivial "comforts." At the same> time, I have to try not to feel "judgmental" and> superior to lots of other people around me who do> not seem to see thing like this. I also appear to> have had some quite different experiences to some> people in this SY discussion group - which I neither> apologise for nor agree to dismiss as not being true> for me - I am however prepared to accept feedback -> even of a negative nature (as long as not abusive!)> so that I can learn and grow!> > Jane P> - > calugar22 > shriadishakti > Monday, January 10, 2005 3:57 PM> [shriadishakti] Re: Sensation / Catch /> Or Desease> > > > shriadishakti , "Jane> Pickup"> <jane.pickup1@b...> wrote:> > Hi> > > > It would be wonderful to experience "thoughtless> awareness" which I> have certainly not achieved, but if Anil IS> experiencing what I am> experiencing (it may be quite different) this is> nothing to do with> "thoughts" - it is a physical process that seems> to be going on. I> personally find it hard to believe that the> kundalini can just shoot> up from the base charka and emerge out of the top> of the head in one> moment of "self realisation." > >.................................................................> Hi,Jane..(Unlike you,I address people by their> names,but you just say> Hi..to whom you say Hi?..just curious)> > In the first, why do you think it would be> wonderful to experience> ,,thoughtless awareness,,..maybe it is something> very horrible ..how> do you know it will be beautiful?..Please> elaborate this subject,cas'> I don't get it.Second,nobody asked you to believe> in Kundalini.Did> I?..Jane...even if I did,how can I prove> it?..talking you under the> table about it?..the fact that you find hard to> believe whatever,has> no meaning to me.It's not the point.I even didn't> believe in GOD> before sahaja.I was raised in a strict communist> regime,where the> notion of GOD was banned.What is the point of> telling me about what> you don't believe?...tell me in what YOU> believe,then I could> understand you.By the way,do you believe in> something,or anything at> all?..just curious. > It comes to the ,pure desire,,...Jane.The desire> to find the truth.The> law of Karma proclaims that all the desires have> to be fulfilled on> this plane,so we might know the good and the> bad,and make a choice.Do> not ever tell me about what you don't> believe...tell me in WHAT you> believe,Jane Pickup. > Sincerely,danny> > > > > >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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