JAGBIR; Are we suppose to just let people starve and die if we can help??

[Guest guest]

Dear Jagbir (and whom ever else has insights or comments)

 

This e-mail was spawned because of another¡¯s response on here that

dealt with the " transient life " and peoples sufferings. ANYWAYS, this

inquiry is going to be one two parts, both with many questions inside

of each of them. I would appreciate if you could touch on all the

point present in both parts of this post, if you have the time to do

so, as its of great importance to me.

 

PART ONE:

 

I was kind of caught off guard by a part of a response by " avnish

bhagat " that stated, and I quote

 

" SY's do not lack compassion, they will do the same

Actions that any other caring human will do, the only

Thing is that they will do it without attachment and

Therefore emotion. The hungry child you feed today may

Well starve tomorrow. Fine, so your compassion knows

No bounds and you'll adopt him, but what can you do if

Another tragedy strikes when you are not taking care?

How many will you save? And to what end? All the

people you save will die anyways, whether now or

later. IS life really so much fun that they must have

a couple of years more on planet earth? "

 

Is that not a contradiction? Even though everyone and everything is

transitory and that maybe the choices those souls make in terms of

karma to be experienced this lifetime is to starve to death in

Ethiopia for example, is it not dharmic to help those in suffering,

starvation etc if we have the means to do so? IF we have the means to

do so, do we simply leave those people to their chosen destiny in

substantial suffering because it is simply their karma? Even if that

help is for that person or persons to live ONLY another day or not to

be hungry for one more night? IF someone is hit by a car and bleeding

to death, or trapped in a burning building, are we suppose to just

let that person/those people to his or her death, or karma as Avnish

stated?

 

Those extreme situations are exactly the same as those who starve

around the world, sleep in garbage dumps and eat from garbage dumps

as well in third world countries, but because those things have been

going on for so long, on such a large scale 1000's miles away from

most people with the money to do any substantial deed, they simply

become forgotten and people take all that for granted or simply

become used to/ desensitized to it.

 

Finally, what are the protocols of sahaja yoga/yogi's when it comes

to helping the starving, suffering, homeless etc with food, money, or

whatever the case may, locally or around the globe?

 

Part 2:

 

Also, I read somewhere (the source I cannot remember) where Shri

MAtaji said something along the lines of (not a direct quote by any

means)

 

---Helping those suffering in anyways is a very noble act, but if you

are to really be of any help, tell them the truth and give them

realization.---

 

Now my question is, why has Shri mataji not gone into places like

Ethiopia, or the poorest parts of south America where people look

like skeletons, live in garbage dumps as well as eat from them (the

whole save the children commercial locations etc) and give them

realization so the mother kundalini could help heal them and help

them slowly out of their problems, both health, financially and

spiritually as well?

 

The many countries where sahaja yoga has be established and is being

practiced seem to be industrialized countries, though I have read

that Shri mataji has visited many poor villages in India and so forth

to give realization. I assume however; that those villages were

nowhere near as dire and poor as those shantytowns I referenced above.

Why are they left to die by the thousands daily, even if they are

simply transitory and all else is on this planet?

IS it the karma of millions, or are the many, large, overly

populated, industrialized counties to reach a spiritually critical

mass through sahaja yoga first, at which time the people like those

in Ethiopia will be taken care of automatically? Or is it the job of

sahaja yogi's to get to the places where the " physical " Shri MAtaji

could not reach?

 

Please touch on all my questions if you could, and please know I am

curious and NOT attacking Shri mataji in anyways, as I do believe she

is the adishakti, even though I had self realization over a year ago

but don¡¯t practice Sahaja yoga at all (yet).

 

Kyyan

[Guest guest]

Hey Kyyan,

 

IF someone is hit by a

> car and bleeding

> to death, or trapped in a burning building, are we

> suppose to just

> let that person/those people to his or her death, or

> karma as Avnish

> stated?

 

Avnish: Pray, where has Avnish said let them starve to

death? Where has Avnish used the word 'Karma'. I dont

know about karma. Avnish said that a Sahaja Yogi will

do the same actions i.e save bleeding people on the

road, jump into burning buildings etc but will do it

without 'attachement' and without thinking that he is

doing something noble.

 

 

Shri

> MAtaji said something along the lines of (not a

> direct quote by any

> means)

>

> ---Helping those suffering in anyways is a very

> noble act, but if you

> are to really be of any help, tell them the truth

> and give them

> realization.---

 

Avnish: By all means I agree. Give realisation to a

millionaire and you'll have given him more wealth in a

second than he can accumulate in many lifetimes.

 

 

Avnish Also Says: You can ask questions endlessly, the

answers will never satisfy you. What 'Realisation' is,

cannot be defined. As incredible as it may seem, the

language we use is insufficient to express it.

Perhaps, you'd like to try it for a month and see if

you dont get all your answers...automatically.

 

At the same time, i'd like to admit that my post about

the 'transient' world was sort of negative. Specially

the part about 'is it so much fun to be alive' ...yes

it is fun, but only since i came into Sahaja Yoga. It

was utter misery before that. An endless barrage of

wants and needs, mental agony over frivilous things,

hatred, animosity, a search for something i couldnt

define, endless questions about 'humanity', 'values'

'the right thing' etc etc. I do feel bad for those who

havent found it yet....Sahaja Yoga. Even my dearest

friends, when they whine about the same mundane things

day after day.

 

Thats my two pence, could you plese pick on someone

else to tear apart. If i say anything inappropriate,

ill admit to it, but hang on till i do.

Avnish

 

--- v_koa <v_koa wrote:

>

>

> Dear Jagbir (and whom ever else has insights or

> comments)

>

> This e-mail was spawned because of another¡¯s

> response on here that

> dealt with the " transient life " and peoples

> sufferings. ANYWAYS, this

> inquiry is going to be one two parts, both with many

> questions inside

> of each of them. I would appreciate if you could

> touch on all the

> point present in both parts of this post, if you

> have the time to do

> so, as its of great importance to me.

>

> PART ONE:

>

> I was kind of caught off guard by a part of a

> response by " avnish

> bhagat " that stated, and I quote

>

> " SY's do not lack compassion, they will do the same

> Actions that any other caring human will do, the

> only

> Thing is that they will do it without attachment and

> Therefore emotion. The hungry child you feed today

> may

> Well starve tomorrow. Fine, so your compassion knows

> No bounds and you'll adopt him, but what can you do

> if

> Another tragedy strikes when you are not taking

> care?

> How many will you save? And to what end? All the

> people you save will die anyways, whether now or

> later. IS life really so much fun that they must

> have

> a couple of years more on planet earth? "

>

> Is that not a contradiction? Even though everyone

> and everything is

> transitory and that maybe the choices those souls

> make in terms of

> karma to be experienced this lifetime is to starve

> to death in

> Ethiopia for example, is it not dharmic to help

> those in suffering,

> starvation etc if we have the means to do so? IF we

> have the means to

> do so, do we simply leave those people to their

> chosen destiny in

> substantial suffering because it is simply their

> karma? Even if that

> help is for that person or persons to live ONLY

> another day or not to

> be hungry for one more night? IF someone is hit by a

> car and bleeding

> to death, or trapped in a burning building, are we

> suppose to just

> let that person/those people to his or her death, or

> karma as Avnish

> stated?

>

> Those extreme situations are exactly the same as

> those who starve

> around the world, sleep in garbage dumps and eat

> from garbage dumps

> as well in third world countries, but because those

> things have been

> going on for so long, on such a large scale 1000's

> miles away from

> most people with the money to do any substantial

> deed, they simply

> become forgotten and people take all that for

> granted or simply

> become used to/ desensitized to it.

>

> Finally, what are the protocols of sahaja

> yoga/yogi's when it comes

> to helping the starving, suffering, homeless etc

> with food, money, or

> whatever the case may, locally or around the globe?

>

> Part 2:

>

> Also, I read somewhere (the source I cannot

> remember) where Shri

> MAtaji said something along the lines of (not a

> direct quote by any

> means)

>

> ---Helping those suffering in anyways is a very

> noble act, but if you

> are to really be of any help, tell them the truth

> and give them

> realization.---

>

> Now my question is, why has Shri mataji not gone

> into places like

> Ethiopia, or the poorest parts of south America

> where people look

> like skeletons, live in garbage dumps as well as eat

> from them (the

> whole save the children commercial locations etc)

> and give them

> realization so the mother kundalini could help heal

> them and help

> them slowly out of their problems, both health,

> financially and

> spiritually as well?

>

> The many countries where sahaja yoga has be

> established and is being

> practiced seem to be industrialized countries,

> though I have read

> that Shri mataji has visited many poor villages in

> India and so forth

> to give realization. I assume however; that those

> villages were

> nowhere near as dire and poor as those shantytowns I

> referenced above.

> Why are they left to die by the thousands daily,

> even if they are

> simply transitory and all else is on this planet?

> IS it the karma of millions, or are the many, large,

> overly

> populated, industrialized counties to reach a

> spiritually critical

> mass through sahaja yoga first, at which time the

> people like those

> in Ethiopia will be taken care of automatically? Or

> is it the job of

> sahaja yogi's to get to the places where the

> " physical " Shri MAtaji

> could not reach?

>

> Please touch on all my questions if you could, and

> please know I am

> curious and NOT attacking Shri mataji in anyways, as

> I do believe she

> is the adishakti, even though I had self realization

> over a year ago

> but don¡¯t practice Sahaja yoga at all (yet).

>

> Kyyan

 

[Guest guest]

yoga is the work , it is the work to purify your thoughts from the

evil so you can see the light in yourself, if you want to help the

poor , it cannot be done here by chatting, it can be done by working,

why do you sit here and chat about the suferring? do YOU firstly

stop the suffer in you, then you can only help the other people ,

firstly help yourself, work with discipline , find the good in you,

it will show you the way, if you do the right thinking, if you do

the right actions and thoughts , the suffer ends... The people in

this world may be are not the one' s who are hungry, or ill ...may

be the only suffering is the ignorance , the only suffering is the

ignorance

yours,

ela cigdem

 

 

note: first you have to ask the questions to yourselves, then to the

other people , because ýf you do not, you can be the slaves of the

other thoughts, organisations etc...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

shriadishakti , " v_koa " <v_koa> wrote:

>

> Dear Jagbir (and whom ever else has insights or comments)

>

> This e-mail was spawned because of another¡¯s response on here

that

> dealt with the " transient life " and peoples sufferings. ANYWAYS,

this

> inquiry is going to be one two parts, both with many questions

inside

> of each of them. I would appreciate if you could touch on all the

> point present in both parts of this post, if you have the time to

do

> so, as its of great importance to me.

>

> PART ONE:

>

> I was kind of caught off guard by a part of a response by " avnish

> bhagat " that stated, and I quote

>

> " SY's do not lack compassion, they will do the same

> Actions that any other caring human will do, the only

> Thing is that they will do it without attachment and

> Therefore emotion. The hungry child you feed today may

> Well starve tomorrow. Fine, so your compassion knows

> No bounds and you'll adopt him, but what can you do if

> Another tragedy strikes when you are not taking care?

> How many will you save? And to what end? All the

> people you save will die anyways, whether now or

> later. IS life really so much fun that they must have

> a couple of years more on planet earth? "

>

> Is that not a contradiction? Even though everyone and everything

is

> transitory and that maybe the choices those souls make in terms of

> karma to be experienced this lifetime is to starve to death in

> Ethiopia for example, is it not dharmic to help those in

suffering,

> starvation etc if we have the means to do so? IF we have the means

to

> do so, do we simply leave those people to their chosen destiny in

> substantial suffering because it is simply their karma? Even if

that

> help is for that person or persons to live ONLY another day or not

to

> be hungry for one more night? IF someone is hit by a car and

bleeding

> to death, or trapped in a burning building, are we suppose to just

> let that person/those people to his or her death, or karma as

Avnish

> stated?

>

> Those extreme situations are exactly the same as those who starve

> around the world, sleep in garbage dumps and eat from garbage

dumps

> as well in third world countries, but because those things have

been

> going on for so long, on such a large scale 1000's miles away from

> most people with the money to do any substantial deed, they simply

> become forgotten and people take all that for granted or simply

> become used to/ desensitized to it.

>

> Finally, what are the protocols of sahaja yoga/yogi's when it

comes

> to helping the starving, suffering, homeless etc with food, money,

or

> whatever the case may, locally or around the globe?

>

> Part 2:

>

> Also, I read somewhere (the source I cannot remember) where Shri

> MAtaji said something along the lines of (not a direct quote by

any

> means)

>

> ---Helping those suffering in anyways is a very noble act, but if

you

> are to really be of any help, tell them the truth and give them

> realization.---

>

> Now my question is, why has Shri mataji not gone into places like

> Ethiopia, or the poorest parts of south America where people look

> like skeletons, live in garbage dumps as well as eat from them

(the

> whole save the children commercial locations etc) and give them

> realization so the mother kundalini could help heal them and help

> them slowly out of their problems, both health, financially and

> spiritually as well?

>

> The many countries where sahaja yoga has be established and is

being

> practiced seem to be industrialized countries, though I have read

> that Shri mataji has visited many poor villages in India and so

forth

> to give realization. I assume however; that those villages were

> nowhere near as dire and poor as those shantytowns I referenced

above.

> Why are they left to die by the thousands daily, even if they are

> simply transitory and all else is on this planet?

> IS it the karma of millions, or are the many, large, overly

> populated, industrialized counties to reach a spiritually critical

> mass through sahaja yoga first, at which time the people like

those

> in Ethiopia will be taken care of automatically? Or is it the job

of

> sahaja yogi's to get to the places where the " physical " Shri

MAtaji

> could not reach?

>

> Please touch on all my questions if you could, and please know I

am

> curious and NOT attacking Shri mataji in anyways, as I do believe

she

> is the adishakti, even though I had self realization over a year

ago

> but don¡¯t practice Sahaja yoga at all (yet).

>

> Kyyan

[Guest guest]

i just have a couple quotes, that i felt sum it up pretty well. i

wont list the people who wrote them(obvious anyway), mostly because

it doesnt really matter.

 

" Grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change,

the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the

difference. "

 

" Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to

fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime "

 

What i get from this is, that you cant feed all the hungry. There is

a reason they are starving and hungry, granted i dont know why, i

dont understand why, so i wont even bother going there. You could

say that you could send money. I aswell have seen the charities,

sure some of the money goes to them but most of it is pocketed by

those who have more then enough. You could go there yourself and

feed them. Still you cant bring enough food to feed them all it will

eventually run out. Do you want to be the man who gets to choose who

eats and who doesnt? Point being that is something that we can not

change. Dont get me wrong though you could still help if you choose

too.

 

Lets say you come across a car wreak or a burning building? Is that

something you can change? well no not really, You cant keep the

building from burning, you cant take back the car wreak. once again

can you help? you most certainly could.

 

You could give all your money and all your time for the rest of your

life. Still you could not reach them all.

 

The only thing you really can change is you. Which is the point

there trying to make. With the difference in culture and languages

it can be easy to misunderstand.

 

 

 

 

 

shriadishakti , Avnish Bhagat

<avnishbhagat> wrote:

> Hey Kyyan,

>

> IF someone is hit by a

> > car and bleeding

> > to death, or trapped in a burning building, are we

> > suppose to just

> > let that person/those people to his or her death, or

> > karma as Avnish

> > stated?

>

> Avnish: Pray, where has Avnish said let them starve to

> death? Where has Avnish used the word 'Karma'. I dont

> know about karma. Avnish said that a Sahaja Yogi will

> do the same actions i.e save bleeding people on the

> road, jump into burning buildings etc but will do it

> without 'attachement' and without thinking that he is

> doing something noble.

>

>

> Shri

> > MAtaji said something along the lines of (not a

> > direct quote by any

> > means)

> >

> > ---Helping those suffering in anyways is a very

> > noble act, but if you

> > are to really be of any help, tell them the truth

> > and give them

> > realization.---

>

> Avnish: By all means I agree. Give realisation to a

> millionaire and you'll have given him more wealth in a

> second than he can accumulate in many lifetimes.

>

>

> Avnish Also Says: You can ask questions endlessly, the

> answers will never satisfy you. What 'Realisation' is,

> cannot be defined. As incredible as it may seem, the

> language we use is insufficient to express it.

> Perhaps, you'd like to try it for a month and see if

> you dont get all your answers...automatically.

>

> At the same time, i'd like to admit that my post about

> the 'transient' world was sort of negative. Specially

> the part about 'is it so much fun to be alive' ...yes

> it is fun, but only since i came into Sahaja Yoga. It

> was utter misery before that. An endless barrage of

> wants and needs, mental agony over frivilous things,

> hatred, animosity, a search for something i couldnt

> define, endless questions about 'humanity', 'values'

> 'the right thing' etc etc. I do feel bad for those who

> havent found it yet....Sahaja Yoga. Even my dearest

> friends, when they whine about the same mundane things

> day after day.

>

> Thats my two pence, could you plese pick on someone

> else to tear apart. If i say anything inappropriate,

> ill admit to it, but hang on till i do.

> Avnish

>

> --- v_koa <v_koa> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Dear Jagbir (and whom ever else has insights or

> > comments)

> >

> > This e-mail was spawned because of another¡¯s

> > response on here that

> > dealt with the " transient life " and peoples

> > sufferings. ANYWAYS, this

> > inquiry is going to be one two parts, both with many

> > questions inside

> > of each of them. I would appreciate if you could

> > touch on all the

> > point present in both parts of this post, if you

> > have the time to do

> > so, as its of great importance to me.

> >

> > PART ONE:

> >

> > I was kind of caught off guard by a part of a

> > response by " avnish

> > bhagat " that stated, and I quote

> >

> > " SY's do not lack compassion, they will do the same

> > Actions that any other caring human will do, the

> > only

> > Thing is that they will do it without attachment and

> > Therefore emotion. The hungry child you feed today

> > may

> > Well starve tomorrow. Fine, so your compassion knows

> > No bounds and you'll adopt him, but what can you do

> > if

> > Another tragedy strikes when you are not taking

> > care?

> > How many will you save? And to what end? All the

> > people you save will die anyways, whether now or

> > later. IS life really so much fun that they must

> > have

> > a couple of years more on planet earth? "

> >

> > Is that not a contradiction? Even though everyone

> > and everything is

> > transitory and that maybe the choices those souls

> > make in terms of

> > karma to be experienced this lifetime is to starve

> > to death in

> > Ethiopia for example, is it not dharmic to help

> > those in suffering,

> > starvation etc if we have the means to do so? IF we

> > have the means to

> > do so, do we simply leave those people to their

> > chosen destiny in

> > substantial suffering because it is simply their

> > karma? Even if that

> > help is for that person or persons to live ONLY

> > another day or not to

> > be hungry for one more night? IF someone is hit by a

> > car and bleeding

> > to death, or trapped in a burning building, are we

> > suppose to just

> > let that person/those people to his or her death, or

> > karma as Avnish

> > stated?

> >

> > Those extreme situations are exactly the same as

> > those who starve

> > around the world, sleep in garbage dumps and eat

> > from garbage dumps

> > as well in third world countries, but because those

> > things have been

> > going on for so long, on such a large scale 1000's

> > miles away from

> > most people with the money to do any substantial

> > deed, they simply

> > become forgotten and people take all that for

> > granted or simply

> > become used to/ desensitized to it.

> >

> > Finally, what are the protocols of sahaja

> > yoga/yogi's when it comes

> > to helping the starving, suffering, homeless etc

> > with food, money, or

> > whatever the case may, locally or around the globe?

> >

> > Part 2:

> >

> > Also, I read somewhere (the source I cannot

> > remember) where Shri

> > MAtaji said something along the lines of (not a

> > direct quote by any

> > means)

> >

> > ---Helping those suffering in anyways is a very

> > noble act, but if you

> > are to really be of any help, tell them the truth

> > and give them

> > realization.---

> >

> > Now my question is, why has Shri mataji not gone

> > into places like

> > Ethiopia, or the poorest parts of south America

> > where people look

> > like skeletons, live in garbage dumps as well as eat

> > from them (the

> > whole save the children commercial locations etc)

> > and give them

> > realization so the mother kundalini could help heal

> > them and help

> > them slowly out of their problems, both health,

> > financially and

> > spiritually as well?

> >

> > The many countries where sahaja yoga has be

> > established and is being

> > practiced seem to be industrialized countries,

> > though I have read

> > that Shri mataji has visited many poor villages in

> > India and so forth

> > to give realization. I assume however; that those

> > villages were

> > nowhere near as dire and poor as those shantytowns I

> > referenced above.

> > Why are they left to die by the thousands daily,

> > even if they are

> > simply transitory and all else is on this planet?

> > IS it the karma of millions, or are the many, large,

> > overly

> > populated, industrialized counties to reach a

> > spiritually critical

> > mass through sahaja yoga first, at which time the

> > people like those

> > in Ethiopia will be taken care of automatically? Or

> > is it the job of

> > sahaja yogi's to get to the places where the

> > " physical " Shri MAtaji

> > could not reach?

> >

> > Please touch on all my questions if you could, and

> > please know I am

> > curious and NOT attacking Shri mataji in anyways, as

> > I do believe she

> > is the adishakti, even though I had self realization

> > over a year ago

> > but don¡¯t practice Sahaja yoga at all (yet).

> >

> > Kyyan

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

an excellent post Spencer (my apologies if i got the name wrong).

This reminds me of a timeless quote by Mahatma Gandhi : " You must be

the change you wish to see in the world "

 

anuj

 

shriadishakti , " spencercorliss "

<spencercorliss> wrote:

>

> i just have a couple quotes, that i felt sum it up pretty well. i

> wont list the people who wrote them(obvious anyway), mostly because

> it doesnt really matter.

>

> " Grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change,

> the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the

> difference. "

>

> " Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to

> fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime "

>

> What i get from this is, that you cant feed all the hungry. There

is

> a reason they are starving and hungry, granted i dont know why, i

> dont understand why, so i wont even bother going there. You could

> say that you could send money. I aswell have seen the charities,

> sure some of the money goes to them but most of it is pocketed by

> those who have more then enough. You could go there yourself and

> feed them. Still you cant bring enough food to feed them all it

will

> eventually run out. Do you want to be the man who gets to choose

who

> eats and who doesnt? Point being that is something that we can not

> change. Dont get me wrong though you could still help if you choose

> too.

>

> Lets say you come across a car wreak or a burning building? Is that

> something you can change? well no not really, You cant keep the

> building from burning, you cant take back the car wreak. once again

> can you help? you most certainly could.

>

> You could give all your money and all your time for the rest of

your

> life. Still you could not reach them all.

>

> The only thing you really can change is you. Which is the point

> there trying to make. With the difference in culture and languages

> it can be easy to misunderstand.

>

>

>

>

>

> shriadishakti , Avnish Bhagat

> <avnishbhagat> wrote:

> > Hey Kyyan,

> >

> > IF someone is hit by a

> > > car and bleeding

> > > to death, or trapped in a burning building, are we

> > > suppose to just

> > > let that person/those people to his or her death, or

> > > karma as Avnish

> > > stated?

> >

> > Avnish: Pray, where has Avnish said let them starve to

> > death? Where has Avnish used the word 'Karma'. I dont

> > know about karma. Avnish said that a Sahaja Yogi will

> > do the same actions i.e save bleeding people on the

> > road, jump into burning buildings etc but will do it

> > without 'attachement' and without thinking that he is

> > doing something noble.

> >

> >

> > Shri

> > > MAtaji said something along the lines of (not a

> > > direct quote by any

> > > means)

> > >

> > > ---Helping those suffering in anyways is a very

> > > noble act, but if you

> > > are to really be of any help, tell them the truth

> > > and give them

> > > realization.---

> >

> > Avnish: By all means I agree. Give realisation to a

> > millionaire and you'll have given him more wealth in a

> > second than he can accumulate in many lifetimes.

> >

> >

> > Avnish Also Says: You can ask questions endlessly, the

> > answers will never satisfy you. What 'Realisation' is,

> > cannot be defined. As incredible as it may seem, the

> > language we use is insufficient to express it.

> > Perhaps, you'd like to try it for a month and see if

> > you dont get all your answers...automatically.

> >

> > At the same time, i'd like to admit that my post about

> > the 'transient' world was sort of negative. Specially

> > the part about 'is it so much fun to be alive' ...yes

> > it is fun, but only since i came into Sahaja Yoga. It

> > was utter misery before that. An endless barrage of

> > wants and needs, mental agony over frivilous things,

> > hatred, animosity, a search for something i couldnt

> > define, endless questions about 'humanity', 'values'

> > 'the right thing' etc etc. I do feel bad for those who

> > havent found it yet....Sahaja Yoga. Even my dearest

> > friends, when they whine about the same mundane things

> > day after day.

> >

> > Thats my two pence, could you plese pick on someone

> > else to tear apart. If i say anything inappropriate,

> > ill admit to it, but hang on till i do.

> > Avnish

> >

> > --- v_koa <v_koa> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Jagbir (and whom ever else has insights or

> > > comments)

> > >

> > > This e-mail was spawned because of another¡¯s

> > > response on here that

> > > dealt with the " transient life " and peoples

> > > sufferings. ANYWAYS, this

> > > inquiry is going to be one two parts, both with many

> > > questions inside

> > > of each of them. I would appreciate if you could

> > > touch on all the

> > > point present in both parts of this post, if you

> > > have the time to do

> > > so, as its of great importance to me.

> > >

> > > PART ONE:

> > >

> > > I was kind of caught off guard by a part of a

> > > response by " avnish

> > > bhagat " that stated, and I quote

> > >

> > > " SY's do not lack compassion, they will do the same

> > > Actions that any other caring human will do, the

> > > only

> > > Thing is that they will do it without attachment and

> > > Therefore emotion. The hungry child you feed today

> > > may

> > > Well starve tomorrow. Fine, so your compassion knows

> > > No bounds and you'll adopt him, but what can you do

> > > if

> > > Another tragedy strikes when you are not taking

> > > care?

> > > How many will you save? And to what end? All the

> > > people you save will die anyways, whether now or

> > > later. IS life really so much fun that they must

> > > have

> > > a couple of years more on planet earth? "

> > >

> > > Is that not a contradiction? Even though everyone

> > > and everything is

> > > transitory and that maybe the choices those souls

> > > make in terms of

> > > karma to be experienced this lifetime is to starve

> > > to death in

> > > Ethiopia for example, is it not dharmic to help

> > > those in suffering,

> > > starvation etc if we have the means to do so? IF we

> > > have the means to

> > > do so, do we simply leave those people to their

> > > chosen destiny in

> > > substantial suffering because it is simply their

> > > karma? Even if that

> > > help is for that person or persons to live ONLY

> > > another day or not to

> > > be hungry for one more night? IF someone is hit by a

> > > car and bleeding

> > > to death, or trapped in a burning building, are we

> > > suppose to just

> > > let that person/those people to his or her death, or

> > > karma as Avnish

> > > stated?

> > >

> > > Those extreme situations are exactly the same as

> > > those who starve

> > > around the world, sleep in garbage dumps and eat

> > > from garbage dumps

> > > as well in third world countries, but because those

> > > things have been

> > > going on for so long, on such a large scale 1000's

> > > miles away from

> > > most people with the money to do any substantial

> > > deed, they simply

> > > become forgotten and people take all that for

> > > granted or simply

> > > become used to/ desensitized to it.

> > >

> > > Finally, what are the protocols of sahaja

> > > yoga/yogi's when it comes

> > > to helping the starving, suffering, homeless etc

> > > with food, money, or

> > > whatever the case may, locally or around the globe?

> > >

> > > Part 2:

> > >

> > > Also, I read somewhere (the source I cannot

> > > remember) where Shri

> > > MAtaji said something along the lines of (not a

> > > direct quote by any

> > > means)

> > >

> > > ---Helping those suffering in anyways is a very

> > > noble act, but if you

> > > are to really be of any help, tell them the truth

> > > and give them

> > > realization.---

> > >

> > > Now my question is, why has Shri mataji not gone

> > > into places like

> > > Ethiopia, or the poorest parts of south America

> > > where people look

> > > like skeletons, live in garbage dumps as well as eat

> > > from them (the

> > > whole save the children commercial locations etc)

> > > and give them

> > > realization so the mother kundalini could help heal

> > > them and help

> > > them slowly out of their problems, both health,

> > > financially and

> > > spiritually as well?

> > >

> > > The many countries where sahaja yoga has be

> > > established and is being

> > > practiced seem to be industrialized countries,

> > > though I have read

> > > that Shri mataji has visited many poor villages in

> > > India and so forth

> > > to give realization. I assume however; that those

> > > villages were

> > > nowhere near as dire and poor as those shantytowns I

> > > referenced above.

> > > Why are they left to die by the thousands daily,

> > > even if they are

> > > simply transitory and all else is on this planet?

> > > IS it the karma of millions, or are the many, large,

> > > overly

> > > populated, industrialized counties to reach a

> > > spiritually critical

> > > mass through sahaja yoga first, at which time the

> > > people like those

> > > in Ethiopia will be taken care of automatically? Or

> > > is it the job of

> > > sahaja yogi's to get to the places where the

> > > " physical " Shri MAtaji

> > > could not reach?

> > >

> > > Please touch on all my questions if you could, and

> > > please know I am

> > > curious and NOT attacking Shri mataji in anyways, as

> > > I do believe she

> > > is the adishakti, even though I had self realization

> > > over a year ago

> > > but don¡¯t practice Sahaja yoga at all (yet).

> > >

> > > Kyyan

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

SPencer,

 

Thank you so much for your post, which really helped me to see these

things in a different way then i did when i was writing that post. IT

makes total sense, especially that first quote. I just wanted to

thank you for that and let you know i've incorperated it into my

head, along with the other response and will try to get that up and

runnin in my life. IT makes much sense. Thank you :-)

 

Kyyan

shriadishakti , " spencercorliss "

<spencercorliss> wrote:

>

> i just have a couple quotes, that i felt sum it up pretty well. i

> wont list the people who wrote them(obvious anyway), mostly because

> it doesnt really matter.

>

> " Grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change,

> the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the

> difference. "

>

> " Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to

> fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime "

>

> What i get from this is, that you cant feed all the hungry. There

is

> a reason they are starving and hungry, granted i dont know why, i

> dont understand why, so i wont even bother going there. You could

> say that you could send money. I aswell have seen the charities,

> sure some of the money goes to them but most of it is pocketed by

> those who have more then enough. You could go there yourself and

> feed them. Still you cant bring enough food to feed them all it

will

> eventually run out. Do you want to be the man who gets to choose

who

> eats and who doesnt? Point being that is something that we can not

> change. Dont get me wrong though you could still help if you choose

> too.

>

> Lets say you come across a car wreak or a burning building? Is that

> something you can change? well no not really, You cant keep the

> building from burning, you cant take back the car wreak. once again

> can you help? you most certainly could.

>

> You could give all your money and all your time for the rest of

your

> life. Still you could not reach them all.

>

> The only thing you really can change is you. Which is the point

> there trying to make. With the difference in culture and languages

> it can be easy to misunderstand.

>

>

>

>

>

> shriadishakti , Avnish Bhagat

> <avnishbhagat> wrote:

> > Hey Kyyan,

> >

> > IF someone is hit by a

> > > car and bleeding

> > > to death, or trapped in a burning building, are we

> > > suppose to just

> > > let that person/those people to his or her death, or

> > > karma as Avnish

> > > stated?

> >

> > Avnish: Pray, where has Avnish said let them starve to

> > death? Where has Avnish used the word 'Karma'. I dont

> > know about karma. Avnish said that a Sahaja Yogi will

> > do the same actions i.e save bleeding people on the

> > road, jump into burning buildings etc but will do it

> > without 'attachement' and without thinking that he is

> > doing something noble.

> >

> >

> > Shri

> > > MAtaji said something along the lines of (not a

> > > direct quote by any

> > > means)

> > >

> > > ---Helping those suffering in anyways is a very

> > > noble act, but if you

> > > are to really be of any help, tell them the truth

> > > and give them

> > > realization.---

> >

> > Avnish: By all means I agree. Give realisation to a

> > millionaire and you'll have given him more wealth in a

> > second than he can accumulate in many lifetimes.

> >

> >

> > Avnish Also Says: You can ask questions endlessly, the

> > answers will never satisfy you. What 'Realisation' is,

> > cannot be defined. As incredible as it may seem, the

> > language we use is insufficient to express it.

> > Perhaps, you'd like to try it for a month and see if

> > you dont get all your answers...automatically.

> >

> > At the same time, i'd like to admit that my post about

> > the 'transient' world was sort of negative. Specially

> > the part about 'is it so much fun to be alive' ...yes

> > it is fun, but only since i came into Sahaja Yoga. It

> > was utter misery before that. An endless barrage of

> > wants and needs, mental agony over frivilous things,

> > hatred, animosity, a search for something i couldnt

> > define, endless questions about 'humanity', 'values'

> > 'the right thing' etc etc. I do feel bad for those who

> > havent found it yet....Sahaja Yoga. Even my dearest

> > friends, when they whine about the same mundane things

> > day after day.

> >

> > Thats my two pence, could you plese pick on someone

> > else to tear apart. If i say anything inappropriate,

> > ill admit to it, but hang on till i do.

> > Avnish

> >

> > --- v_koa <v_koa> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Jagbir (and whom ever else has insights or

> > > comments)

> > >

> > > This e-mail was spawned because of another¡¯s

> > > response on here that

> > > dealt with the " transient life " and peoples

> > > sufferings. ANYWAYS, this

> > > inquiry is going to be one two parts, both with many

> > > questions inside

> > > of each of them. I would appreciate if you could

> > > touch on all the

> > > point present in both parts of this post, if you

> > > have the time to do

> > > so, as its of great importance to me.

> > >

> > > PART ONE:

> > >

> > > I was kind of caught off guard by a part of a

> > > response by " avnish

> > > bhagat " that stated, and I quote

> > >

> > > " SY's do not lack compassion, they will do the same

> > > Actions that any other caring human will do, the

> > > only

> > > Thing is that they will do it without attachment and

> > > Therefore emotion. The hungry child you feed today

> > > may

> > > Well starve tomorrow. Fine, so your compassion knows

> > > No bounds and you'll adopt him, but what can you do

> > > if

> > > Another tragedy strikes when you are not taking

> > > care?

> > > How many will you save? And to what end? All the

> > > people you save will die anyways, whether now or

> > > later. IS life really so much fun that they must

> > > have

> > > a couple of years more on planet earth? "

> > >

> > > Is that not a contradiction? Even though everyone

> > > and everything is

> > > transitory and that maybe the choices those souls

> > > make in terms of

> > > karma to be experienced this lifetime is to starve

> > > to death in

> > > Ethiopia for example, is it not dharmic to help

> > > those in suffering,

> > > starvation etc if we have the means to do so? IF we

> > > have the means to

> > > do so, do we simply leave those people to their

> > > chosen destiny in

> > > substantial suffering because it is simply their

> > > karma? Even if that

> > > help is for that person or persons to live ONLY

> > > another day or not to

> > > be hungry for one more night? IF someone is hit by a

> > > car and bleeding

> > > to death, or trapped in a burning building, are we

> > > suppose to just

> > > let that person/those people to his or her death, or

> > > karma as Avnish

> > > stated?

> > >

> > > Those extreme situations are exactly the same as

> > > those who starve

> > > around the world, sleep in garbage dumps and eat

> > > from garbage dumps

> > > as well in third world countries, but because those

> > > things have been

> > > going on for so long, on such a large scale 1000's

> > > miles away from

> > > most people with the money to do any substantial

> > > deed, they simply

> > > become forgotten and people take all that for

> > > granted or simply

> > > become used to/ desensitized to it.

> > >

> > > Finally, what are the protocols of sahaja

> > > yoga/yogi's when it comes

> > > to helping the starving, suffering, homeless etc

> > > with food, money, or

> > > whatever the case may, locally or around the globe?

> > >

> > > Part 2:

> > >

> > > Also, I read somewhere (the source I cannot

> > > remember) where Shri

> > > MAtaji said something along the lines of (not a

> > > direct quote by any

> > > means)

> > >

> > > ---Helping those suffering in anyways is a very

> > > noble act, but if you

> > > are to really be of any help, tell them the truth

> > > and give them

> > > realization.---

> > >

> > > Now my question is, why has Shri mataji not gone

> > > into places like

> > > Ethiopia, or the poorest parts of south America

> > > where people look

> > > like skeletons, live in garbage dumps as well as eat

> > > from them (the

> > > whole save the children commercial locations etc)

> > > and give them

> > > realization so the mother kundalini could help heal

> > > them and help

> > > them slowly out of their problems, both health,

> > > financially and

> > > spiritually as well?

> > >

> > > The many countries where sahaja yoga has be

> > > established and is being

> > > practiced seem to be industrialized countries,

> > > though I have read

> > > that Shri mataji has visited many poor villages in

> > > India and so forth

> > > to give realization. I assume however; that those

> > > villages were

> > > nowhere near as dire and poor as those shantytowns I

> > > referenced above.

> > > Why are they left to die by the thousands daily,

> > > even if they are

> > > simply transitory and all else is on this planet?

> > > IS it the karma of millions, or are the many, large,

> > > overly

> > > populated, industrialized counties to reach a

> > > spiritually critical

> > > mass through sahaja yoga first, at which time the

> > > people like those

> > > in Ethiopia will be taken care of automatically? Or

> > > is it the job of

> > > sahaja yogi's to get to the places where the

> > > " physical " Shri MAtaji

> > > could not reach?

> > >

> > > Please touch on all my questions if you could, and

> > > please know I am

> > > curious and NOT attacking Shri mataji in anyways, as

> > > I do believe she

> > > is the adishakti, even though I had self realization

> > > over a year ago

> > > but don¡¯t practice Sahaja yoga at all (yet).

> > >

> > > Kyyan

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hello Spencer

 

I have just looked at this again and I want to say that agree with some of the things you say here, but not others. I agree with the quote about teaching a man to fish, rather than just feeding him. Jesus did both! However, as regards "the things we can't change" I don't agree as I believe really that we can change everything. I would never have said this before my SY experiences and I have somewhat failed to achieve very much since having this "realisation" ! But I still believe anything is possible really.

 

I know one is not supposed to have "psychic" experiences" in SY but I don't see the experiences I've had as "psychic" really I tend to think "Reality" is just what is defined as being possible by a group of beings. This is probably how "scientific" discoveries are made - because the person who is doing the experiment has certain pre-set beliefs as to what is and is not "possible." There was one definite occasion when it was as if I stepped right out of "reality" for a moment - or rather entered another reality in the midst of the other one going on around me. Someone else that I work with also saw it and in fact it was her that pointed it out to me. But I think she kind of "incorporated" it into her own ideas of "normality" and I never mentioned it to her after as I think she would have thought I was insane or it may have disturbed her.I have also had the most incredible, incredible "coincidences" some connected with SY and some with some other people which I don't really want to go into (I don't mean a spiritual/religious group) but the way it works all seems to make a lot of sense and to connect me with other people that I feel I should be with. I seem to think there was something in SY about "Synchronicity" and Carl Jung. Synchronicity is probably all about seeing "connections" that were there all along in your life!

 

I don't seem to have had any "control" over how these things happened, so I don't see myself as having made them happen - but these experiences have made me realise that "anything is possible." There are some things which horrible weapons can do which I would have thought people might question more, but these things seem to be accepted as being part of the everyday world - there are definitely some things that I wish were "not possible."

 

Another thing that I have begun to realise more and more of recent years is that poverty in the Third World is not just a rotten fact of life. I do genuinely now believe that we in the West help to keep hunger and poverty going. If anyone had the time or inclination to read up on this they could read people like Norm Chomsky and John Pilger, I don't think I'm allowed to put links to websites? I am not saying let's have Communism either (a friend in America tells me that Hegel had some much better ideas which were partially stolen by Karl Marx - but I haven't had time to look into this yet!).

 

I agree with what you say about changing yourself, which is probably the hardest thing for us to do! But I still think we could also change the world if we all got together and believed we could!

 

 

 

-

spencercorliss

shriadishakti

Thursday, January 13, 2005 6:41 PM

[shriadishakti] Re: JAGBIR; Are we suppose to just let people starve and die if we can help??

i just have a couple quotes, that i felt sum it up pretty well. i wont list the people who wrote them(obvious anyway), mostly because it doesnt really matter. "Grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change,the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.""Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime"What i get from this is, that you cant feed all the hungry. There is a reason they are starving and hungry, granted i dont know why, i dont understand why, so i wont even bother going there. You could say that you could send money. I aswell have seen the charities, sure some of the money goes to them but most of it is pocketed by those who have more then enough. You could go there yourself and feed them. Still you cant bring enough food to feed them all it will eventually run out. Do you want to be the man who gets to choose who eats and who doesnt? Point being that is something that we can not change. Dont get me wrong though you could still help if you choose too.Lets say you come across a car wreak or a burning building? Is that something you can change? well no not really, You cant keep the building from burning, you cant take back the car wreak. once again can you help? you most certainly could.You could give all your money and all your time for the rest of your life. Still you could not reach them all. The only thing you really can change is you. Which is the point there trying to make. With the difference in culture and languages it can be easy to misunderstand.shriadishakti , Avnish Bhagat <avnishbhagat> wrote:> Hey Kyyan,> > IF someone is hit by a> > car and bleeding > > to death, or trapped in a burning building, are we> > suppose to just > > let that person/those people to his or her death, or> > karma as Avnish > > stated?> > Avnish: Pray, where has Avnish said let them starve to> death? Where has Avnish used the word 'Karma'. I dont> know about karma. Avnish said that a Sahaja Yogi will> do the same actions i.e save bleeding people on the> road, jump into burning buildings etc but will do it> without 'attachement' and without thinking that he is> doing something noble.> > > Shri > > MAtaji said something along the lines of (not a> > direct quote by any > > means)> > > > ---Helping those suffering in anyways is a very> > noble act, but if you > > are to really be of any help, tell them the truth> > and give them > > realization.---> > Avnish: By all means I agree. Give realisation to a> millionaire and you'll have given him more wealth in a> second than he can accumulate in many lifetimes.> > > Avnish Also Says: You can ask questions endlessly, the> answers will never satisfy you. What 'Realisation' is,> cannot be defined. As incredible as it may seem, the> language we use is insufficient to express it.> Perhaps, you'd like to try it for a month and see if> you dont get all your answers...automatically.> > At the same time, i'd like to admit that my post about> the 'transient' world was sort of negative. Specially> the part about 'is it so much fun to be alive' ...yes> it is fun, but only since i came into Sahaja Yoga. It> was utter misery before that. An endless barrage of> wants and needs, mental agony over frivilous things,> hatred, animosity, a search for something i couldnt> define, endless questions about 'humanity', 'values'> 'the right thing' etc etc. I do feel bad for those who> havent found it yet....Sahaja Yoga. Even my dearest> friends, when they whine about the same mundane things> day after day. > > Thats my two pence, could you plese pick on someone> else to tear apart. If i say anything inappropriate,> ill admit to it, but hang on till i do.> Avnish> > --- v_koa <v_koa> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Jagbir (and whom ever else has insights or> > comments)> > > > This e-mail was spawned because of another¡¯s> > response on here that > > dealt with the" transient life" and peoples> > sufferings. ANYWAYS, this > > inquiry is going to be one two parts, both with many> > questions inside > > of each of them. I would appreciate if you could> > touch on all the > > point present in both parts of this post, if you> > have the time to do > > so, as its of great importance to me.> > > > PART ONE:> > > > I was kind of caught off guard by a part of a> > response by "avnish > > bhagat" that stated, and I quote> > > > " SY's do not lack compassion, they will do the same> > Actions that any other caring human will do, the> > only> > Thing is that they will do it without attachment and> > Therefore emotion. The hungry child you feed today> > may> > Well starve tomorrow. Fine, so your compassion knows> > No bounds and you'll adopt him, but what can you do> > if> > Another tragedy strikes when you are not taking> > care?> > How many will you save? And to what end? All the> > people you save will die anyways, whether now or> > later. IS life really so much fun that they must> > have> > a couple of years more on planet earth?"> > > > Is that not a contradiction? Even though everyone> > and everything is > > transitory and that maybe the choices those souls> > make in terms of > > karma to be experienced this lifetime is to starve> > to death in > > Ethiopia for example, is it not dharmic to help> > those in suffering, > > starvation etc if we have the means to do so? IF we> > have the means to > > do so, do we simply leave those people to their> > chosen destiny in > > substantial suffering because it is simply their> > karma? Even if that > > help is for that person or persons to live ONLY> > another day or not to > > be hungry for one more night? IF someone is hit by a> > car and bleeding > > to death, or trapped in a burning building, are we> > suppose to just > > let that person/those people to his or her death, or> > karma as Avnish > > stated?> > > > Those extreme situations are exactly the same as> > those who starve > > around the world, sleep in garbage dumps and eat> > from garbage dumps > > as well in third world countries, but because those> > things have been > > going on for so long, on such a large scale 1000's> > miles away from > > most people with the money to do any substantial> > deed, they simply > > become forgotten and people take all that for> > granted or simply > > become used to/ desensitized to it.> > > > Finally, what are the protocols of sahaja> > yoga/yogi's when it comes > > to helping the starving, suffering, homeless etc> > with food, money, or > > whatever the case may, locally or around the globe?> > > > Part 2:> > > > Also, I read somewhere (the source I cannot> > remember) where Shri > > MAtaji said something along the lines of (not a> > direct quote by any > > means)> > > > ---Helping those suffering in anyways is a very> > noble act, but if you > > are to really be of any help, tell them the truth> > and give them > > realization.---> > > > Now my question is, why has Shri mataji not gone> > into places like > > Ethiopia, or the poorest parts of south America> > where people look > > like skeletons, live in garbage dumps as well as eat> > from them (the > > whole save the children commercial locations etc)> > and give them > > realization so the mother kundalini could help heal> > them and help > > them slowly out of their problems, both health,> > financially and > > spiritually as well?> > > > The many countries where sahaja yoga has be> > established and is being > > practiced seem to be industrialized countries,> > though I have read > > that Shri mataji has visited many poor villages in> > India and so forth > > to give realization. I assume however; that those> > villages were > > nowhere near as dire and poor as those shantytowns I> > referenced above.> > Why are they left to die by the thousands daily,> > even if they are > > simply transitory and all else is on this planet?> > IS it the karma of millions, or are the many, large,> > overly > > populated, industrialized counties to reach a> > spiritually critical > > mass through sahaja yoga first, at which time the> > people like those > > in Ethiopia will be taken care of automatically? Or> > is it the job of > > sahaja yogi's to get to the places where the> > "physical" Shri MAtaji > > could not reach?> > > > Please touch on all my questions if you could, and> > please know I am > > curious and NOT attacking Shri mataji in anyways, as> > I do believe she > > is the adishakti, even though I had self realization> > over a year ago > > but don¡¯t practice Sahaja yoga at all (yet).> > > > Kyyan> > > > > > > > > > > > > >