I cant be in collective but you can be in Collective Consciousness

February 4, 2005

Dear sister,

Shri Mataji did mention there are twelve types of SYs. Ask any SY

who has heard the tape and they will tell you it is true. Aunty

Lyndal, if you are reading this please confirm.

Shri Mataji did not specifically say what the categories were but it

should range between the great souls, good SYs, bad apples and ugly

ducklings. There is no such thing as we SYs are all the same.

Through experience i know most are very good, a few bad and a

handful ugly.

Just yesterday a SY told me how he lost a doctor devotee who had

brought a number of people into Sahaja Yoga. This physician quit

when he met some SYs in India. Apparently their behavior shocked him

and forced him to question his faith. In the end he left because he

could not reconcile with what he had experienced. (i find he made an

error because he should have realized that Shri Mataji is not

responsible for the actions of SYs as they have all freedom to do as

they wish.) Not only that but he has ever since told his bad

experiences to others, including new SYs who faith is shaken and

these people may slowly cease meditating.

So i do not want you to stay to the point of disgust, and may leave

forever. So do not listen to SYs who are not in your shoes and

induce more fear and guilt by subtle system talk. Since they are so

involved with the subtle system they seem to understand things only

in terms of chakras. (That is one of the reasons i left because i

could not take all this constant chatter of catches and cures.)

You may stay away from the collective and continue meditating alone

if you find SYs give you problems, or that the atmosphere is not

conducive to progress. But please do not stay for the sake of the

collective, only to leave in revulsion when you cannot take it

anymore. Do not reach this point of no return. Shri Mataji wants us

to be in Collective Consciousness and not local collective

consciousness. Please understand this very important fact that many

SYs are ignorant of.

Sure there are many benefits of staying in the collective but

leaving it does not mean the end. In fact there are some SYs who

have advanced themselves because they are not retarded by the fear

and guilt-ridden, catch conscious nature of collectives.

i assure you that the journey is within yourself and the Shakti

resides in your Sahasrara. One day when Shri Mataji leaves SYs will

be forced to meditate on Her within. So leaving the collective will

not diminish your progress, provided you are strong and have great

faith in Shri Mataji.

You should take comfort that i have left the collective years ago

when it became unbearable for me to continue. Even my wife could not

stand all that constant chatter of catches and cures that made her

fear and guilty of so many things. Today she is glad that she left

and began meditating at home. We do not have the fears that many SYs

project on you in the collective. Leaving the collective has been

really beneficial as we are now our own gurus. No outsider can shake

our faith and trust in the Adi Shakti, nor any SY make us feel

fearful or guilty.

So weigh your options before making a decision. If you do leave

please occasionally return to the collective to recharge your

batteries. Perhaps that may also teach others a lesson. Anyway, we

are a still collective at this forum and can draw upon it for

strength and guidance. For all i know it will help you establish a

deep and unbreakable bond with Shri Mataji because in this

collective garden we weed out ignorance. You should know this forum

and websites have brought back SYs on the verge of leaving because

they are able to understand things better, and have a venue to

present their grievances or doubts that will be heard and, most

importantly, answered. Maybe you can't be in collective but you can

definitely be in Collective Consciousness.

So please do not feel guilty about expressing your views as SYs have

this habit of sweeping problems under the carpet and sanitizing

Sahaja Yoga. This has resulted in problems festering for years. i

believe that prevention is better than cure. And we can only prevent

problems by acknowledging them first. Please feel free to express

your doubts, problems and concerns so that we can all learn from

them. It is a win-win situation no matter what others say. By

keeping silent you will only protect those who keep you in

ignorance, fear and guilt. You said that " So much things I dont

understand, like gateways and not allowed information, even see

photos of Mother which I would like to print and keep in my place. "

Why protect those who cannot give you knoweldge and keep information

secret? Why protect idiots who do not even allow you to see photos

of Shri Mataji?

But maybe you are wondering why you are not allowed to even see Shri

Mataji's photos. Let you tell you why through my expereince.

A few years ago i went to the Toronto ashram because Shri Mataji was

coming there for a public program. As i was walking around and

admiring the rooms i came across hundreds of Shri Mataji's photos

strewn on a bed. Apparently other SYs have been looking at them for

a day or two. So naturally i was attracted and begun looking at them

with joy and love in my heart - they were so many pretty ones that i

had never seen before.

Then a senior SY passed by, stopped and came into the room. He told

me i was not to touch the photographs even though others had. It did

not take much intelligence to realize that being a member of a

possessed family with demonic children, i had no right to even look

at Shri Mataji's photographs.

In the end it was necessary for my whole family to leave and

meditate alone. At least we are still devoted to Her and feeling so

much better in mind, body and soul.

So who wants to stay in Sahaja Yoga when some SYs give you so many

reasons to leave? We left in order to remain Her devotees.

Jai Shri Mataji,

jagbir

shriadishakti , " yoginisahaja "

<yoginisahaja> wrote:

>

> Dear Oleg savisky and sisters and brothers

> thank you deeply for help and advices, it help me greatly. I

> understand collective yoga is important as Mother says, I will try

> hard. I wont tell problems here, we are all brothers and sisters

in divine love, is important to protect sahaj and culture.

> I think dear brother jagbir wrote about 12 yogis before, i will

see messages here, maybe i understood wrong.

> Blessing to all of you,

> Jai Shree Mataji!!!

> your sister yogini

>

> shriadishakti , Oleg Savitsky

<savitsky@f...>

> wrote:

> > Jay Shri Mataji!

> >

> > Dear sister,

> >

> > Shri Mataji created sahaja yoga as collective yoga. That means

> when you are the part of sahaja collective - you get special

> blessings and attention from Shri Adi Shakti. But even you're

> meditating alone, Paramchaitanya, the all penetrating power, still

> with you - because you are connected. But considerate the quality

of Vishuddhi chakra you are loosing. It's very, very difficult to be

> out of sahaja collective and keep this chakra in a proper state -

> because of collectivity principle in it. You know that aspects of

> Vishuddhi includes collectivity, be a spectator, be unattached to

> everything, sweet talking and doing.

> >

> > According to your e-mail, you are really good and sweet sahaja

> yogini loving Shri Mataji. No doubts that you will spread your

love and patience to all people surrounding you. While spreading

pure love don't wait for reflecting it back, don't wait for

anything, just spread love and all things will go in the right

direction after a time. Be confident, we are upholding you with our

love too.

> >

> > Your brother,

> > Oleg Savitsky

> > Kiev, Ukraine

> >

-

> >

> > >> Dear brother jagbirji,

> >

> > >> Jai shree MAtaji!

> >

> > >> When you post previous reply to me you mentioned 12 types of

SYs, I think i am start to get your meaning this time. May be I now

meet most types.

> >

> > >> I believe in Mothers Grace, I believe in adiShakti. I dont

> > >> understand many yogis thouh and now starting thinking to

> leave SY official) and just believe for myself. So much things I

dont understand, like gateways and not allowed information, even

> see photos of Mother which I would like to print and keep in my

> place.

> >

> > >> Can I be SY but not in collective do you think? I have

> reasons not living in ashram (sick person to care of) and I dont

> understand religion that says some people are not good enough,

thank you for understanding me,,

> >

> > >> your sister,

> > >> JSM!!!!!

> >

February 4, 2005

dear Brother, thank you very kindly for advices. And for telling

what you said, is my belief also, i keep attention on importance

things not ugly things i see in some peopole.

I will not tell who is problem here, but I can show this on subject

of photos - http://bhajan.nirmalvihar.info/?SubmitYourBiodata

I only want precious photos of Mother, but i have few minuts on

internet and they make me wait,tell everything - is not easy when i

have no time. I only want photos not gold!!! They make me criminal!!

You say you have problems in sahaja for your children,I am sorry for

that. and I thank you most deeply for responses,

Jai Shree Mataji!!!

your sister yogini

February 4, 2005

Man, reading what they did to you I am sorry for you.

Any way forgive them !

Catajagbir singh <adishakti_org wrote:

Dear sister,Shri Mataji did mention there are twelve types of SYs. Ask any SY who has heard the tape and they will tell you it is true. Aunty Lyndal, if you are reading this please confirm.Shri Mataji did not specifically say what the categories were but it should range between the great souls, good SYs, bad apples and ugly ducklings. There is no such thing as we SYs are all the same. Through experience i know most are very good, a few bad and a handful ugly.Just yesterday a SY told me how he lost a doctor devotee who had brought a number of people into Sahaja Yoga. This physician quit when he met some SYs in India. Apparently their behavior shocked him and forced him to question his faith. In the end he left because he could not reconcile with what he had experienced. (i find he made an error because

he should have realized that Shri Mataji is not responsible for the actions of SYs as they have all freedom to do as they wish.) Not only that but he has ever since told his bad experiences to others, including new SYs who faith is shaken and these people may slowly cease meditating.So i do not want you to stay to the point of disgust, and may leave forever. So do not listen to SYs who are not in your shoes and induce more fear and guilt by subtle system talk. Since they are so involved with the subtle system they seem to understand things only in terms of chakras. (That is one of the reasons i left because i could not take all this constant chatter of catches and cures.)You may stay away from the collective and continue meditating alone if you find SYs give you problems, or that the atmosphere is not conducive to progress. But please do not stay for the sake of the collective, only to leave in revulsion when you cannot

take it anymore. Do not reach this point of no return. Shri Mataji wants us to be in Collective Consciousness and not local collective consciousness. Please understand this very important fact that many SYs are ignorant of.Sure there are many benefits of staying in the collective but leaving it does not mean the end. In fact there are some SYs who have advanced themselves because they are not retarded by the fear and guilt-ridden, catch conscious nature of collectives. i assure you that the journey is within yourself and the Shakti resides in your Sahasrara. One day when Shri Mataji leaves SYs will be forced to meditate on Her within. So leaving the collective will not diminish your progress, provided you are strong and have great faith in Shri Mataji.You should take comfort that i have left the collective years ago when it became unbearable for me to continue. Even my wife could not stand all that constant

chatter of catches and cures that made her fear and guilty of so many things. Today she is glad that she left and began meditating at home. We do not have the fears that many SYs project on you in the collective. Leaving the collective has been really beneficial as we are now our own gurus. No outsider can shake our faith and trust in the Adi Shakti, nor any SY make us feel fearful or guilty.So weigh your options before making a decision. If you do leave please occasionally return to the collective to recharge your batteries. Perhaps that may also teach others a lesson. Anyway, we are a still collective at this forum and can draw upon it for strength and guidance. For all i know it will help you establish a deep and unbreakable bond with Shri Mataji because in this collective garden we weed out ignorance. You should know this forum and websites have brought back SYs on the verge of leaving because they are able to

understand things better, and have a venue to present their grievances or doubts that will be heard and, most importantly, answered. Maybe you can't be in collective but you can definitely be in Collective Consciousness.So please do not feel guilty about expressing your views as SYs have this habit of sweeping problems under the carpet and sanitizing Sahaja Yoga. This has resulted in problems festering for years. i believe that prevention is better than cure. And we can only prevent problems by acknowledging them first. Please feel free to express your doubts, problems and concerns so that we can all learn from them. It is a win-win situation no matter what others say. By keeping silent you will only protect those who keep you in ignorance, fear and guilt. You said that "So much things I dont understand, like gateways and not allowed information, even see photos of Mother which I would like to print and keep in my

place."Why protect those who cannot give you knoweldge and keep information secret? Why protect idiots who do not even allow you to see photos of Shri Mataji?But maybe you are wondering why you are not allowed to even see Shri Mataji's photos. Let you tell you why through my expereince.A few years ago i went to the Toronto ashram because Shri Mataji was coming there for a public program. As i was walking around and admiring the rooms i came across hundreds of Shri Mataji's photos strewn on a bed. Apparently other SYs have been looking at them for a day or two. So naturally i was attracted and begun looking at them with joy and love in my heart - they were so many pretty ones that i had never seen before.Then a senior SY passed by, stopped and came into the room. He told me i was not to touch the photographs even though others had. It did not take much intelligence to realize that being a member of a

possessed family with demonic children, i had no right to even look at Shri Mataji's photographs. In the end it was necessary for my whole family to leave and meditate alone. At least we are still devoted to Her and feeling so much better in mind, body and soul.So who wants to stay in Sahaja Yoga when some SYs give you so many reasons to leave? We left in order to remain Her devotees.Jai Shri Mataji,jagbirshriadishakti , "yoginisahaja" <yoginisahaja> wrote:> > Dear Oleg savisky and sisters and brothers> thank you deeply for help and advices, it help me greatly. I > understand collective yoga is important as Mother says, I will try > hard. I wont tell problems here, we are all brothers and sisters in divine love, is important to protect sahaj and culture.> I think dear brother jagbir wrote about 12 yogis before, i will see messages

here, maybe i understood wrong.> Blessing to all of you,> Jai Shree Mataji!!!> your sister yogini> > shriadishakti , Oleg Savitsky <savitsky@f...> > wrote:> > Jay Shri Mataji!> > > > Dear sister,> > > > Shri Mataji created sahaja yoga as collective yoga. That means > when you are the part of sahaja collective - you get special > blessings and attention from Shri Adi Shakti. But even you're > meditating alone, Paramchaitanya, the all penetrating power, still > with you - because you are connected. But considerate the quality of Vishuddhi chakra you are loosing. It's very, very difficult to be > out of sahaja collective and keep this chakra in a proper state - > because of collectivity principle in it. You know that aspects of > Vishuddhi includes collectivity, be a spectator, be unattached to >

everything, sweet talking and doing.> > > > According to your e-mail, you are really good and sweet sahaja > yogini loving Shri Mataji. No doubts that you will spread your love and patience to all people surrounding you. While spreading pure love don't wait for reflecting it back, don't wait for anything, just spread love and all things will go in the right direction after a time. Be confident, we are upholding you with our love too.> > > > Your brother,> > Oleg Savitsky> > Kiev, Ukraine> > > > -> > > > >> Dear brother jagbirji,> > > > >> Jai shree MAtaji!> > > > >> When you post previous reply to me you mentioned 12 types of SYs, I think i am start to get your meaning this time. May be I now meet most types.> > > > >> I believe in

Mothers Grace, I believe in adiShakti. I dont > > >> understand many yogis thouh and now starting thinking to > leave SY official) and just believe for myself. So much things I dont understand, like gateways and not allowed information, even > see photos of Mother which I would like to print and keep in my > place.> > > > >> Can I be SY but not in collective do you think? I have > reasons not living in ashram (sick person to care of) and I dont > understand religion that says some people are not good enough, thank you for understanding me,,> > > > >> your sister, > > >> JSM!!!!!> > > >

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