Guest guest Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 Hi,Alex Alex wrote;''Semira - Once you are realised and have realised you are the spirit, then it becomes possible to believe in the last judgement. Please try to tell a man lost in worldly affairs about this and measure the credibility he assigns you.'' Semira;For me, though, I couldn't even begin to meditate until I had heard and understood the Divine message. There are many people like me trying to understand the teachings of the Scriptures and their message, and who have become saddened and disillusioned with the way that organised religions are being to propagate discrimination and differences between people. The Last Judgement makes sense of the teaching of the Scriptures, and therefore is not an incredulous concept for people sincerely searching for the meaning of the Scriptures. The Divine message affords the Scriptures credibility. Alex wrote;''Now, a normal sahaja yogi can bring in say at least 10 people a year? yes, thats a fair number even for someone who is not over zealous. Can you tell me if adishakti.com, for the amount of web space it occupies has gotten 10 people into sahaja yoga since the time it came into existence? I really really doubt that.'' Semira; The adishakti site has been the source of much valuable insight for me concerning the teachings of Jesus and also of the Koran.Without this knowledge, I could not have understood even why it is necessary to meditate. Alex wrote;''But, thats where it has has failed. It has seen success too. Its made people like semira, anuj...and many others believe that after they die, they will be sitting in front of matajis throne in the afterlife and meditating alongside Kash and Arvinder who will be some 30 odd years old by then. Also in attendance will be lord shiva, lord ganesha and many other gods and goddesses.'' Semira; The Divine reveals itself to people in different ways for different purposes. It is both Formless, and has Form. The adishakti site certainly has seen success; it has allowed people reading it to know with certainty that the Holy Spirit is within each of us. Making fun of people's experiences of the Divine in this way merely reveals insincerity and insensitivity. Alex wrote;Now the truth. 1)Mataji right from the 70's has been saying (this is documented) that 'I am the destination' Semira; No one is arguing with this. 2)She has time and again said, 'You are like cells in my body....all of you'...Im sure you dont think it is the physical body she was reffering to. Then how is kash, seperate from her in the spiritual realm that Jagbir claims his kids visit. How are all the gods and goddesses outside her, even there? Semira;As I said above; the Divine reveals Itself in many ways. 3)Again, in her last speech in 2004 she clearly and emphatically said 'I do not see the difference between you and adishakti, they are the same' She further insisted that this speech be distributed immediately worldwide. Semira; No one is arguing with this. The Spirit is all One and the Same. 4)Mataji told Jagbir, by his own admission, to leave the work he had submitted to her. He pasted a note saying she had said 'TO LEAVE IT TO HER'. Jagbir has not left it to her. he continues to promote the site. Thereby diobeying the adishakti. Semira; Did She say; Close down the adishakti site? 5) When we all know that the dieties exist inside us, and also inside the virat, then where are the seperate identities coming from. The are all created by the adishakti and exist inside her. Semira; I suggest you take some time to read the adishakti site; in particular the teachings of Jesus. 6)Again if someone is describing the insides of the sahasrar, why has shri mataji not explained this herself. Never has she mentioned that there is any such place. No sahaja yogi has ever come forward to descibe the experience either. I am sure you will agree there are many yogis who have gone past nirvikalpa also....and transcended the four chakras beyond the sahasrar. Semira;Again, the Divine reveals Itself to people for a purpose. 7)Does it not seem ridiculous to you that all the divine beings are sitting around with human bodies even in Heaven (Er..thats heaven right where Kash and Arvinder go?) Ever wondered if that what Kash and Arvinder see are real then where do they get their clothes from, who stitches them? Do they have a tailor, a hairdresser? Shri Ram for sure has footwear, so is there an Adidas store in that realm? ok, he wears sandals, a poor joke on my part. But he's still need a cobbler. A forest to get wood from....what are heavenly forests like? Human bodies require food. Who cooks? Semira; Do not ridicule people's experiences of the Divine. These experiences have a purpose. 8)Why is it only Jagbirs kids get an audience in front of shri Mataji? Where are all the devis and devtas...35 crore of them. Where are the other advanced sahaja yogis, do they get a seperate audience in another realm of space? Semira;As above. 9)As for why Shri MAtaji has not done anything about Jagbirs site....well....she told him to leave it. He did not listen. Now the SY sites dontlink to this fantasy land...what more do you want her to do?? She knows some seekers wil get misled. But thats the way it has to be. Semira; Mislead by the Truth, do you mean? 10) Kash and Arinders visits are the basis of this entire website. To say it is the last judgement that is spoken of, is just a selling point. Sahaja Yoga does not hide the FACT of the last judgement. In fact as soon as you join SY, one of the first few tapes you will find speaks clearly of THE LAST JUDGEMENT. Where is the secret. Semira; I didn't get that Kash and Arwinders visits are the basis of the adishakti site. In fact, I'm still busy reading about other issues on the site, and have looked briefly at these. You seem to be making their visits and your disbelief the basis of your posts, though. If there are no secrets in SY, why are people who have been practising it for years saying that 'people will think that they are crazy' if they tell the truth about the beliefs? 11)The techniques of spreading sahaja yoga have been laid down by mataji, all of us do just that. And it is effective. Semira;Please substantiate this claim. [and please do not use the trick of taking a few lines here and a few lines there to quote; to be seriously considered, quotes must remain in the context of the entirety of the speech they are taken from.] 12)If you think subtle system is not so important, then my dear brothers and sisters please meditate onthe fact that even during the last judgement, the ones who will not be saved are the ones who have not perfected their subtle system and thereby attained nirvikalpa. Semira; No one has said that the subtle system is unimportant.However, before I could begin to understand the subtle system and why it is important, I needed to understand the Divine message and the Holy Spirit. Warm regrads, Alex A Regards, Semira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 I do not know about you people. I wrote one long mail and was thinking why is this jagbir man always so angry angry. i have not seen anyone talk this. Even ordinary people. Anyway, i tried checking vibrations. I got a stinging feeling in my left thumb. Has anyone else felt this. I was going to tell Jagbir to put matka treatment. But i know he will go mad because yogi mahajan and many other people told him to do same thing before he ran away from collective. I was listen to audio cassette yesterday at night. I am not interested to fight like you people but i must say this. Mataji said, (5.5.85, i think. I am in cyber cafe so i tell from memeory)that whatever you do, stay in the collective. She said sometimes even if you think people are not behaving so nicely, even then you must go to collective. It is very important. She says you cannot, you simply cannot ascend alone. No matter what you must meditate in colleectivity. Those people who do not attrend collective are finished. I have read many peoples posts. Lots of you - semira, jagbir, ialex, and all are trying to rise alone. Matai says it is not possible. My duty to tell so i am telling. Dont involve in your arguements about this and that. Also, about the possesion when it happens, the possessed person will not know. semirafields <semirafields wrote: Hi,AlexAlex wrote;''Semira - Once you are realised and have realised youare the spirit, then it becomes possible to believe inthe last judgement. Please try to tell a man lost inworldly affairs about this and measure the credibilityhe assigns you.''Semira;For me, though, I couldn't even begin to meditate until I had heard and understood the Divine message. There are many people like me trying to understand the teachings of the Scriptures and their message, and who have become saddened and disillusioned with the way that organised religions are being to propagate discrimination and differences between people. The Last Judgement makes sense of the teaching of the Scriptures, and therefore is not an incredulous concept for people sincerely searching for the meaning of the Scriptures. The Divine message affords the Scriptures credibility.Alex wrote;''Now, a normal sahaja yogi can bring in say at least 10people a year? yes, thats a fair number even forsomeone who is not over zealous. Can you tell me ifadishakti.com, for the amount of web space it occupieshas gotten 10 people into sahaja yoga since the timeit came into existence? I really really doubt that.''Semira; The adishakti site has been the source of much valuable insight for me concerning the teachings of Jesus and also of the Koran.Without this knowledge, I could not have understood even why it is necessary to meditate. Alex wrote;''But, thats where it has has failed. It has seensuccess too. Its made people like semira, anuj...andmany others believe that after they die, they will besitting in front of matajis throne in the afterlifeand meditating alongside Kash and Arvinder who will besome 30 odd years old by then. Also in attendance willbe lord shiva, lord ganesha and many other gods andgoddesses.''Semira; The Divine reveals itself to people in different ways for different purposes. It is both Formless, and has Form. The adishakti site certainly has seen success; it has allowed people reading it to know with certainty that the Holy Spirit is within each of us. Making fun of people's experiences of the Divine in this way merely reveals insincerity and insensitivity.Alex wrote;Now the truth.1)Mataji right from the 70's has been saying (this isdocumented) that 'I am the destination'Semira; No one is arguing with this.2)She has time and again said, 'You are like cells inmy body....all of you'...Im sure you dont think it isthe physical body she was reffering to. Then how iskash, seperate from her in the spiritual realm thatJagbir claims his kids visit. How are all the gods andgoddesses outside her, even there?Semira;As I said above; the Divine reveals Itself in many ways.3)Again, in her last speech in 2004 she clearly andemphatically said 'I do not see the difference betweenyou and adishakti, they are the same' She furtherinsisted that this speech be distributed immediatelyworldwide.Semira; No one is arguing with this. The Spirit is all One and the Same.4)Mataji told Jagbir, by his own admission, to leavethe work he had submitted to her. He pasted a notesaying she had said 'TO LEAVE IT TO HER'. Jagbir hasnot left it to her. he continues to promote the site.Thereby diobeying the adishakti.Semira; Did She say; Close down the adishakti site?5) When we all know that the dieties exist inside us,and also inside the virat, then where are the seperateidentities coming from. The are all created by theadishakti and exist inside her.Semira; I suggest you take some time to read the adishakti site; in particular the teachings of Jesus.6)Again if someone is describing the insides of thesahasrar, why has shri mataji not explained thisherself. Never has she mentioned that there is anysuch place. No sahaja yogi has ever come forward todescibe the experience either. I am sure you willagree there are many yogis who have gone pastnirvikalpa also....and transcended the four chakrasbeyond the sahasrar.Semira;Again, the Divine reveals Itself to people for a purpose.7)Does it not seem ridiculous to you that all thedivine beings are sitting around with human bodieseven in Heaven (Er..thats heaven right where Kash andArvinder go?)Ever wondered if that what Kash and Arvinder see arereal then where do they get their clothes from, whostitches them? Do they have a tailor, a hairdresser?Shri Ram for sure has footwear, so is there an Adidasstore in that realm? ok, he wears sandals, a poor jokeon my part. But he's still need a cobbler. A forest toget wood from....what are heavenly forests like? Humanbodies require food. Who cooks?Semira; Do not ridicule people's experiences of the Divine. These experiences have a purpose.8)Why is it only Jagbirs kids get an audience in frontof shri Mataji? Where are all the devis anddevtas...35 crore of them. Where are the otheradvanced sahaja yogis, do they get a seperate audiencein another realm of space?Semira;As above.9)As for why Shri MAtaji has not done anything aboutJagbirs site....well....she told him to leave it. Hedid not listen. Now the SY sites dontlink to thisfantasy land...what more do you want her to do?? Sheknows some seekers wil get misled. But thats the wayit has to be.Semira; Mislead by the Truth, do you mean?10) Kash and Arinders visits are the basis of thisentire website. To say it is the last judgement thatis spoken of, is just a selling point. Sahaja Yogadoes not hide the FACT of the last judgement. In factas soon as you join SY, one of the first few tapes youwill find speaks clearly of THE LAST JUDGEMENT. Whereis the secret.Semira; I didn't get that Kash and Arwinders visits are the basis of the adishakti site. In fact, I'm still busy reading about other issues on the site, and have looked briefly at these. You seem to be making their visits and your disbelief the basis of your posts, though. If there are no secrets in SY, why are people who have been practising it for years saying that 'people will think that they are crazy' if they tell the truth about the beliefs?11)The techniques of spreading sahaja yoga have beenlaid down by mataji, all of us do just that. And it iseffective.Semira;Please substantiate this claim. [and please do not use the trick of taking a few lines here and a few lines there to quote; to be seriously considered, quotes must remain in the context of the entirety of the speech they are taken from.] 12)If you think subtle system is not so important,then my dear brothers and sisters please meditateonthe fact that even during the last judgement, theones who will not be saved are the ones who have notperfected their subtle system and thereby attainednirvikalpa.Semira; No one has said that the subtle system is unimportant.However, before I could begin to understand the subtle system and why it is important, I needed to understand the Divine message and the Holy Spirit.Warm regrads,Alex ARegards, Semira India Matrimony: Find your life partner online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Vinay, Jagbir, at least from all the posts i have read, has never claimed to be perfect nor to be free from catching all the time. IT has been said that no one is perfect, but SY allows one to become to perfect over time. IT may take years upon years to reach that ideal state; meanwhile as you travel to attain that end you are never free from anger, negativity or catching completely. He has also said many times that he isn't against cures or treatments, but to rely on them forever and obsess over them he is against and does not see the point. I am not trying to put words in his mouth, only to make mention of the information in regards to that i have read over a long period of time as was stated by him. I recall a message written in response to my questions on the collective, ( cant recall the message number but it is in the archives)where jagbir has said that collectives are absolutly neccesary to learn of the subtle system and t heal quickly. After that, if the collective does not bother you then by all means stay, and learn to become a master of the suble system while staying focused on the core mesage of shi mataji, which is the last judgement and resurrection. He went on to say that if it becomes and issues for whatever reason and the collecties mind set is too much to bare in a negative fashion, then you are welcme to leave and continue on your own. From what i have read, it is spiritually collective that is needed to be stuck to in order to acnd, as if you are disconnected from that oucannot ascend, not physical collectivity. Kyyan shriadishakti , Vinay Talwar <vinay_yogi2000> wrote: > I do not know about you people. I wrote one long mail and was thinking why is this jagbir man always so angry angry. i have not seen anyone talk this. Even ordinary people. > > Anyway, i tried checking vibrations. I got a stinging feeling in my left thumb. Has anyone else felt this. I was going to tell Jagbir to put matka treatment. But i know he will go mad because yogi mahajan and many other people told him to do same thing before he ran away from collective. > > I was listen to audio cassette yesterday at night. I am not interested to fight like you people but i must say this. > > Mataji said, (5.5.85, i think. I am in cyber cafe so i tell from memeory)that whatever you do, stay in the collective. She said sometimes even if you think people are not behaving so nicely, even then you must go to collective. It is very important. She says you cannot, you simply cannot ascend alone. No matter what you must meditate in colleectivity. Those people who do not attrend collective are finished. > > I have read many peoples posts. Lots of you - semira, jagbir, ialex, and all are trying to rise alone. Matai says it is not possible. > > My duty to tell so i am telling. Dont involve in your arguements about this and that. > > Also, about the possesion when it happens, the possessed person will not know. > > semirafields <semirafields> wrote: > > Hi,Alex > Alex wrote;''Semira - Once you are realised and have realised you > are the spirit, then it becomes possible to believe in > the last judgement. Please try to tell a man lost in > worldly affairs about this and measure the credibility > he assigns you.'' > > Semira;For me, though, I couldn't even begin to meditate until I had > heard and understood the Divine message. There are many people like > me trying to understand the teachings of the Scriptures and their > message, and who have become saddened and disillusioned with the way > that organised religions are being to propagate discrimination and > differences between people. The Last Judgement makes sense of the > teaching of the Scriptures, and therefore is not an incredulous > concept for people sincerely searching for the meaning of the > Scriptures. The Divine message affords the Scriptures credibility. > > > Alex wrote;''Now, a normal sahaja yogi can bring in say at least 10 > people a year? yes, thats a fair number even for > someone who is not over zealous. Can you tell me if > adishakti.com, for the amount of web space it occupies > has gotten 10 people into sahaja yoga since the time > it came into existence? I really really doubt that.'' > > Semira; The adishakti site has been the source of much valuable > insight for me concerning the teachings of Jesus and also of the > Koran.Without this knowledge, I could not have understood even why > it is necessary to meditate. > > > > Alex wrote;''But, thats where it has has failed. It has seen > success too. Its made people like semira, anuj...and > many others believe that after they die, they will be > sitting in front of matajis throne in the afterlife > and meditating alongside Kash and Arvinder who will be > some 30 odd years old by then. Also in attendance will > be lord shiva, lord ganesha and many other gods and > goddesses.'' > > Semira; The Divine reveals itself to people in different ways for > different purposes. It is both Formless, and has Form. The adishakti > site certainly has seen success; it has allowed people reading it to > know with certainty that the Holy Spirit is within each of us. > > Making fun of people's experiences of the Divine in this way merely > reveals insincerity and insensitivity. > > > Alex wrote;Now the truth. > > 1)Mataji right from the 70's has been saying (this is > documented) that 'I am the destination' > Semira; No one is arguing with this. > > 2)She has time and again said, 'You are like cells in > my body....all of you'...Im sure you dont think it is > the physical body she was reffering to. Then how is > kash, seperate from her in the spiritual realm that > Jagbir claims his kids visit. How are all the gods and > goddesses outside her, even there? > Semira;As I said above; the Divine reveals Itself in many ways. > > 3)Again, in her last speech in 2004 she clearly and > emphatically said 'I do not see the difference between > you and adishakti, they are the same' She further > insisted that this speech be distributed immediately > worldwide. > Semira; No one is arguing with this. The Spirit is all One and the > Same. > > 4)Mataji told Jagbir, by his own admission, to leave > the work he had submitted to her. He pasted a note > saying she had said 'TO LEAVE IT TO HER'. Jagbir has > not left it to her. he continues to promote the site. > Thereby diobeying the adishakti. > Semira; Did She say; Close down the adishakti site? > > 5) When we all know that the dieties exist inside us, > and also inside the virat, then where are the seperate > identities coming from. The are all created by the > adishakti and exist inside her. > Semira; I suggest you take some time to read the adishakti site; in > particular the teachings of Jesus. > > 6)Again if someone is describing the insides of the > sahasrar, why has shri mataji not explained this > herself. Never has she mentioned that there is any > such place. No sahaja yogi has ever come forward to > descibe the experience either. I am sure you will > agree there are many yogis who have gone past > nirvikalpa also....and transcended the four chakras > beyond the sahasrar. > Semira;Again, the Divine reveals Itself to people for a purpose. > > 7)Does it not seem ridiculous to you that all the > divine beings are sitting around with human bodies > even in Heaven (Er..thats heaven right where Kash and > Arvinder go?) > Ever wondered if that what Kash and Arvinder see are > real then where do they get their clothes from, who > stitches them? Do they have a tailor, a hairdresser? > Shri Ram for sure has footwear, so is there an Adidas > store in that realm? ok, he wears sandals, a poor joke > on my part. But he's still need a cobbler. A forest to > get wood from....what are heavenly forests like? Human > bodies require food. Who cooks? > Semira; Do not ridicule people's experiences of the Divine. These > experiences have a purpose. > > 8)Why is it only Jagbirs kids get an audience in front > of shri Mataji? Where are all the devis and > devtas...35 crore of them. Where are the other > advanced sahaja yogis, do they get a seperate audience > in another realm of space? > Semira;As above. > > 9)As for why Shri MAtaji has not done anything about > Jagbirs site....well....she told him to leave it. He > did not listen. Now the SY sites dontlink to this > fantasy land...what more do you want her to do?? She > knows some seekers wil get misled. But thats the way > it has to be. > Semira; Mislead by the Truth, do you mean? > > > 10) Kash and Arinders visits are the basis of this > entire website. To say it is the last judgement that > is spoken of, is just a selling point. Sahaja Yoga > does not hide the FACT of the last judgement. In fact > as soon as you join SY, one of the first few tapes you > will find speaks clearly of THE LAST JUDGEMENT. Where > is the secret. > Semira; I didn't get that Kash and Arwinders visits are the basis of > the adishakti site. In fact, I'm still busy reading about other > issues on the site, and have looked briefly at these. You seem to be > making their visits and your disbelief the basis of your posts, > though. > If there are no secrets in SY, why are people who have been > practising it for years saying that 'people will think that they are > crazy' if they tell the truth about the beliefs? > > > 11)The techniques of spreading sahaja yoga have been > laid down by mataji, all of us do just that. And it is > effective. > Semira;Please substantiate this claim. [and please do not use the > trick of taking a few lines here and a few lines there to quote; to > be seriously considered, quotes must remain in the context of the > entirety of the speech they are taken from.] > > > 12)If you think subtle system is not so important, > then my dear brothers and sisters please meditate > onthe fact that even during the last judgement, the > ones who will not be saved are the ones who have not > perfected their subtle system and thereby attained > nirvikalpa. > Semira; No one has said that the subtle system is > unimportant.However, before I could begin to understand the subtle > system and why it is important, I needed to understand the Divine > message and the Holy Spirit. > > > Warm regrads, > > Alex A > > Regards, Semira > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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