Why not simply change the leadership in SY?????????????????

February 7, 2005

Jagbir,

What is to be done about such leaders? Is it not possible for others

who are advocates for the truth up front and qualified to lead, to

become leaders as well, or replce existing leaders? Who are these

leaders anyways, especially north american sy leaders? Who appoints

them to be leaders and how can u become one? IS there no way to

change leadership so the webpages can reflect and make known the

truth as well as straight away at the sy weekly meetings? It is made

to seem impossible to change the leadership to the type of yogis we

need leading sy and as well making new seekers aware of the main

goal of/in SY through the meetings and the web pages? Why has

nothing been done for so long?

More importantly what will become of SY once shri mataji leaves and

these leaders are running things? THis situation will go from bad to

worse and possibly turn into the typical organized, hierarcy style

religion.

I surely hope not

Kyyan

shriadishakti , " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org> wrote:

>

> shriadishakti , " v_koa " <v_koa> wrote:

> >

> > Alex,

> >

> > IF there is to be any proof of these visits, how do u propose

they

> > are proven legit? How to you provide proof of visits and

> > happenings that are of the spirit, not of a material nature in

> > which yu can snap a photograph etc. Im just curious as to what

> > proof of such things would satisfy your doubts?

> >

>

> Other than checking vibrations the only other method to confirm

> authenticity would be cross-examination. Children do not have the

> knowledge of the spiritual Kingdom of God within. When they

continue

> explaining their daily experiences over a sustained period of many

> years there is absolutely no way one can deny what they say.

>

> Take for example the first meeting with Lord Jesus. i had doubts

> when Kash told me the Saviour was a massive giant of a man.

Despite

> all my questioning and reminding that Christ was a thin and

smaller-

> sized, Kash refused to change. i became apprehensive but he stood

> his ground even though doubted. This child just refused to

> compromise despite apparent pressure. i realized later it was a

> genuine experience because Shri Mataji was telling the same to

> SYs: " He was a very healthy, hefty and tall person. He had to

carry

> the cross. "

>

> When three children tell you their expereinces it is so easy to

> check them out. You just ask A first, then B a few days later, C

> afterwards, A again after a month, get B and C together and ask

> questions, check again with A and so on. That is what i have been

> doing over the years and the detailed description of what they

> witness has always been consistent.

>

> For example the Light above Shri Mataji. Kash stunned me when he

> said its rays are cool. i was speechless when he added that no

> shadows are formed from this Light. All three of them confirm the

> same. How then can i doubt the authenticity of their experiences?

> All of them have been consistent, no matter how many times over

time

> they are questioned.

>

> > Also, just because one person has great experiences with SY

> > leaders, does not mean others have shared that experience as

well.

> > Even you yourself have said " It is unfair to say there is a lot

to

> > be desired of their behaviour. I have interacted with many, and

> > given the amount of responsibilty they have, i think they do a

> > wonderful job " . That statement there proves that even you have

not

> > interacted with ALL SY leaders and officers, so for you to say

> > that your experience/statement is absolute and Satish Shukla's

is

> > not, is clearly not fair. It is a two way street.

> >

>

> Alex just met the Indian leaders since he only joined Sahaja Yoga

> last year. This accusation that those in authority are at times

> arrogant and unbecoming of realized souls have been echoed over

the

> years by a number of people. i believe many SYs have been

> disillusioned in one way or another, as i am, by their actions. We

> have lost good professional people due to the actions of some SYs.

>

> Sure there are great leaders in some countries but the overall

> picture is not that good. Shri Mataji has said that seekers will

be

> attracted by the quality of SYs. Surely leaders are included and

> play a vital role in getting others into Sahaja Yoga. The quality

of

> leadership should be gauged by the number of seekers attracted to

> Sahaja Yoga through them, not the amount of pujas they organize or

> attend.

>

> And once Shri Mataji leaves we will need good leaders to advance

Her

> cause. Somehow i feel great individual souls will join forces and

> collectively do far more to attract seekers in future. The

> groundwork for these souls to flourish in complete freedom without

> any fear must be laid today so that tomorrow they can enlighten

and

> attract others.

>

> jagbir

February 7, 2005

Koa madam,

I think yoyu should take it easy. Concentrate on mediatation. Have you been taught how to bring attention to the self and to ciltivate witness state. I ask again and very slowly ' have you cultivated witness state?'

In sahaja yoga, wehn one yogi tells another somethig, it is out of love, so please do not mind me telling you that u are not in witness state. This is the basic state that is required. Please dont be so involved in all the discussion here. Sahaja yoga is not about talking and arguing and all the rubbish. It is about meditating in collectivy to attain collective conscious.

First of all go and sit with other yogis to mediatate. i am very much concerned for you. please.

With love VT

v_koa <v_koa wrote:

Jagbir,What is to be done about such leaders? Is it not possible for others who are advocates for the truth up front and qualified to lead, to become leaders as well, or replce existing leaders? Who are these leaders anyways, especially north american sy leaders? Who appoints them to be leaders and how can u become one? IS there no way to change leadership so the webpages can reflect and make known the truth as well as straight away at the sy weekly meetings? It is made to seem impossible to change the leadership to the type of yogis we need leading sy and as well making new seekers aware of the main goal of/in SY through the meetings and the web pages? Why has nothing been done for so long?More importantly what will become of SY once shri mataji leaves and these leaders are running things? THis situation will

go from bad to worse and possibly turn into the typical organized, hierarcy style religion.I surely hope notKyyanKyyanshriadishakti , "jagbir singh" <adishakti_org> wrote:> > > > shriadishakti , "v_koa" <v_koa> wrote:> > > > Alex,> > > > IF there is to be any proof of these visits, how do u propose they > > are proven legit? How to you provide proof of visits and > > happenings that are of the spirit, not of a material nature in > > which yu can snap a photograph etc. Im just curious as to what > > proof of such things would satisfy your doubts? > > > > Other than checking vibrations the only other method to confirm > authenticity would be cross-examination. Children do not have the > knowledge of the spiritual Kingdom of God

within. When they continue > explaining their daily experiences over a sustained period of many > years there is absolutely no way one can deny what they say.> > Take for example the first meeting with Lord Jesus. i had doubts > when Kash told me the Saviour was a massive giant of a man. Despite > all my questioning and reminding that Christ was a thin and smaller-> sized, Kash refused to change. i became apprehensive but he stood > his ground even though doubted. This child just refused to > compromise despite apparent pressure. i realized later it was a > genuine experience because Shri Mataji was telling the same to > SYs: "He was a very healthy, hefty and tall person. He had to carry > the cross."> > When three children tell you their expereinces it is so easy to > check them out. You just ask A first, then B a few days later, C > afterwards, A again

after a month, get B and C together and ask > questions, check again with A and so on. That is what i have been > doing over the years and the detailed description of what they > witness has always been consistent.> > For example the Light above Shri Mataji. Kash stunned me when he > said its rays are cool. i was speechless when he added that no > shadows are formed from this Light. All three of them confirm the > same. How then can i doubt the authenticity of their experiences? > All of them have been consistent, no matter how many times over time > they are questioned.> > > > Also, just because one person has great experiences with SY > > leaders, does not mean others have shared that experience as well. > > Even you yourself have said "It is unfair to say there is a lot to > > be desired of their behaviour. I have interacted with many, and

> > given the amount of responsibilty they have, i think they do a > > wonderful job". That statement there proves that even you have not > > interacted with ALL SY leaders and officers, so for you to say > > that your experience/statement is absolute and Satish Shukla's is > > not, is clearly not fair. It is a two way street.> > > > Alex just met the Indian leaders since he only joined Sahaja Yoga > last year. This accusation that those in authority are at times > arrogant and unbecoming of realized souls have been echoed over the > years by a number of people. i believe many SYs have been > disillusioned in one way or another, as i am, by their actions. We > have lost good professional people due to the actions of some SYs.> > Sure there are great leaders in some countries but the overall > picture is not that good. Shri Mataji has said that

seekers will be > attracted by the quality of SYs. Surely leaders are included and > play a vital role in getting others into Sahaja Yoga. The quality of > leadership should be gauged by the number of seekers attracted to > Sahaja Yoga through them, not the amount of pujas they organize or > attend.> > And once Shri Mataji leaves we will need good leaders to advance Her > cause. Somehow i feel great individual souls will join forces and > collectively do far more to attract seekers in future. The > groundwork for these souls to flourish in complete freedom without > any fear must be laid today so that tomorrow they can enlighten and > attract others.> > jagbir

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February 7, 2005

Vinay,

I fully agree with you that meditation should be the main focus and

sqwabbling/arguing is not productive; however i believe discussion

is until it becomes redundant and all that can be gained from the

discussion has be gained. I thank you for your concern for me and my

spiritual well being, as you have every right to be

concerned/worried for me, as i am not a yogi and have not meditated

since i had my self realization more then a year ago. I am here to

learn more nd to ask questions to satisfy my curiosity until i am

fully prepared to get my realization again and begin meditating/

living shaj seriously, which will be in the near future i assure

you. I just wanted to say thank you and let you kno that i am not a

fellow yogi yet, but i appriciate your concern and your wise

words/help. Thank you again

Kyyan

shriadishakti , Vinay Talwar

<vinay_yogi2000> wrote:

> Koa madam,

>

> I think yoyu should take it easy. Concentrate on mediatation. Have

you been taught how to bring attention to the self and to ciltivate

witness state. I ask again and very slowly ' have you cultivated

witness state?'

>

> In sahaja yoga, wehn one yogi tells another somethig, it is out of

love, so please do not mind me telling you that u are not in witness

state. This is the basic state that is required. Please dont be so

involved in all the discussion here. Sahaja yoga is not about

talking and arguing and all the rubbish. It is about meditating in

collectivy to attain collective conscious.

>

> First of all go and sit with other yogis to mediatate. i am very

much concerned for you. please.

>

> With love VT

>

> v_koa <v_koa> wrote:

>

> Jagbir,

>

> What is to be done about such leaders? Is it not possible for

others

> who are advocates for the truth up front and qualified to lead,

to

> become leaders as well, or replce existing leaders? Who are these

> leaders anyways, especially north american sy leaders? Who

appoints

> them to be leaders and how can u become one? IS there no way to

> change leadership so the webpages can reflect and make known the

> truth as well as straight away at the sy weekly meetings? It is

made

> to seem impossible to change the leadership to the type of yogis

we

> need leading sy and as well making new seekers aware of the main

> goal of/in SY through the meetings and the web pages? Why has

> nothing been done for so long?

>

> More importantly what will become of SY once shri mataji leaves

and

> these leaders are running things? THis situation will go from bad

to

> worse and possibly turn into the typical organized, hierarcy style

> religion.

>

> I surely hope not

>

> Kyyan

>

> Kyyan

>

> shriadishakti , " jagbir singh "

> <adishakti_org> wrote:

> >

> > shriadishakti , " v_koa " <v_koa> wrote:

> > >

> > > Alex,

> > >

> > > IF there is to be any proof of these visits, how do u propose

> they

> > > are proven legit? How to you provide proof of visits and

> > > happenings that are of the spirit, not of a material nature in

> > > which yu can snap a photograph etc. Im just curious as to what

> > > proof of such things would satisfy your doubts?

> > >

> >

> > Other than checking vibrations the only other method to confirm

> > authenticity would be cross-examination. Children do not have

the

> > knowledge of the spiritual Kingdom of God within. When they

> continue

> > explaining their daily experiences over a sustained period of

many

> > years there is absolutely no way one can deny what they say.

> >

> > Take for example the first meeting with Lord Jesus. i had doubts

> > when Kash told me the Saviour was a massive giant of a man.

> Despite

> > all my questioning and reminding that Christ was a thin and

> smaller-

> > sized, Kash refused to change. i became apprehensive but he

stood

> > his ground even though doubted. This child just refused to

> > compromise despite apparent pressure. i realized later it was a

> > genuine experience because Shri Mataji was telling the same to

> > SYs: " He was a very healthy, hefty and tall person. He had to

> carry

> > the cross. "

> >

> > When three children tell you their expereinces it is so easy to

> > check them out. You just ask A first, then B a few days later, C

> > afterwards, A again after a month, get B and C together and ask

> > questions, check again with A and so on. That is what i have

been

> > doing over the years and the detailed description of what they

> > witness has always been consistent.

> >

> > For example the Light above Shri Mataji. Kash stunned me when he

> > said its rays are cool. i was speechless when he added that no

> > shadows are formed from this Light. All three of them confirm

the

> > same. How then can i doubt the authenticity of their

experiences?

> > All of them have been consistent, no matter how many times over

> time

> > they are questioned.

> >

> > > Also, just because one person has great experiences with SY

> > > leaders, does not mean others have shared that experience as

> well.

> > > Even you yourself have said " It is unfair to say there is a

lot

> to

> > > be desired of their behaviour. I have interacted with many,

and

> > > given the amount of responsibilty they have, i think they do a

> > > wonderful job " . That statement there proves that even you have

> not

> > > interacted with ALL SY leaders and officers, so for you to say

> > > that your experience/statement is absolute and Satish Shukla's

> is

> > > not, is clearly not fair. It is a two way street.

> > >

> >

> > Alex just met the Indian leaders since he only joined Sahaja

Yoga

> > last year. This accusation that those in authority are at times

> > arrogant and unbecoming of realized souls have been echoed over

> the

> > years by a number of people. i believe many SYs have been

> > disillusioned in one way or another, as i am, by their actions.

We

> > have lost good professional people due to the actions of some

SYs.

> >

> > Sure there are great leaders in some countries but the overall

> > picture is not that good. Shri Mataji has said that seekers will

> be

> > attracted by the quality of SYs. Surely leaders are included and

> > play a vital role in getting others into Sahaja Yoga. The

quality

> of

> > leadership should be gauged by the number of seekers attracted

to

> > Sahaja Yoga through them, not the amount of pujas they organize

or

> > attend.

> >

> > And once Shri Mataji leaves we will need good leaders to advance

> Her

> > cause. Somehow i feel great individual souls will join forces

and

> > collectively do far more to attract seekers in future. The

> > groundwork for these souls to flourish in complete freedom

without

> > any fear must be laid today so that tomorrow they can enlighten

> and

> > attract others.

> >

> > jagbir

>

February 7, 2005

Dear Kyyan,

You can only change the world by first changing yourself. You can

only instill truthfullness in others by being truthful yourself. You

can only make others fearless by being courageous yourself. There is

no need for any change in leadership because they are there to make

Sahaja Yoga a well-oiled machinery. Just become better high-quality

cogs and wheels. It is simple as that.

jagbir

shriadishakti , " v_koa " <v_koa> wrote:

>

> Jagbir,

>

> What is to be done about such leaders? Is it not possible for

others who are advocates for the truth up front and qualified to

lead, to become leaders as well, or replce existing leaders? Who are

these leaders anyways, especially north american sy leaders? Who

appoints them to be leaders and how can u become one? IS there no

way to change leadership so the webpages can reflect and make known

the truth as well as straight away at the sy weekly meetings? It is

made to seem impossible to change the leadership to the type of

yogis we need leading sy and as well making new seekers aware of the

main goal of/in SY through the meetings and the web pages? Why has

> nothing been done for so long?

>

> More importantly what will become of SY once shri mataji leaves

and these leaders are running things? THis situation will go from

bad to worse and possibly turn into the typical organized, hierarcy

style religion.

>

> I surely hope not

>

> Kyyan

>

> Kyyan

>

February 7, 2005

OPEN YOUR HEART

GIVE TO YOU AND OTHERS IF ANY PROBLEM OF ANY HIS STEP OF EVOLUTION COMPASION, LOVE AND VIBRATIONS.

NAMASKARVinay Talwar <vinay_yogi2000 wrote:

Koa madam,

I think yoyu should take it easy. Concentrate on mediatation. Have you been taught how to bring attention to the self and to ciltivate witness state. I ask again and very slowly ' have you cultivated witness state?'

In sahaja yoga, wehn one yogi tells another somethig, it is out of love, so please do not mind me telling you that u are not in witness state. This is the basic state that is required. Please dont be so involved in all the discussion here. Sahaja yoga is not about talking and arguing and all the rubbish. It is about meditating in collectivy to attain collective conscious.

First of all go and sit with other yogis to mediatate. i am very much concerned for you. please.

With love VT

v_koa <v_koa wrote:

Jagbir,What is to be done about such leaders? Is it not possible for others who are advocates for the truth up front and qualified to lead, to become leaders as well, or replce existing leaders? Who are these leaders anyways, especially north american sy leaders? Who appoints them to be leaders and how can u become one? IS there no way to change leadership so the webpages can reflect and make known the truth as well as straight away at the sy weekly meetings? It is made to seem impossible to change the leadership to the type of yogis we need leading sy and as well making new seekers aware of the main goal of/in SY through the meetings and the web pages? Why has nothing been done for so long?More importantly what will become of SY once shri mataji leaves and these leaders are running things? THis situation will

go from bad to worse and possibly turn into the typical organized, hierarcy style religion.I surely hope notKyyanKyyanshriadishakti , "jagbir singh" <adishakti_org> wrote:> > > > shriadishakti , "v_koa" <v_koa> wrote:> > > > Alex,> > > > IF there is to be any proof of these visits, how do u propose they > > are proven legit? How to you provide proof of visits and > > happenings that are of the spirit, not of a material nature in > > which yu can snap a photograph etc. Im just curious as to what > > proof of such things would satisfy your doubts? > > > > Other than checking vibrations the only other method to confirm > authenticity would be cross-examination. Children do not have the > knowledge of the spiritual Kingdom of God

within. When they continue > explaining their daily experiences over a sustained period of many > years there is absolutely no way one can deny what they say.> > Take for example the first meeting with Lord Jesus. i had doubts > when Kash told me the Saviour was a massive giant of a man. Despite > all my questioning and reminding that Christ was a thin and smaller-> sized, Kash refused to change. i became apprehensive but he stood > his ground even though doubted. This child just refused to > compromise despite apparent pressure. i realized later it was a > genuine experience because Shri Mataji was telling the same to > SYs: "He was a very healthy, hefty and tall person. He had to carry > the cross."> > When three children tell you their expereinces it is so easy to > check them out. You just ask A first, then B a few days later, C > afterwards, A again

after a month, get B and C together and ask > questions, check again with A and so on. That is what i have been > doing over the years and the detailed description of what they > witness has always been consistent.> > For example the Light above Shri Mataji. Kash stunned me when he > said its rays are cool. i was speechless when he added that no > shadows are formed from this Light. All three of them confirm the > same. How then can i doubt the authenticity of their experiences? > All of them have been consistent, no matter how many times over time > they are questioned.> > > > Also, just because one person has great experiences with SY > > leaders, does not mean others have shared that experience as well. > > Even you yourself have said "It is unfair to say there is a lot to > > be desired of their behaviour. I have interacted with many, and

> > given the amount of responsibilty they have, i think they do a > > wonderful job". That statement there proves that even you have not > > interacted with ALL SY leaders and officers, so for you to say > > that your experience/statement is absolute and Satish Shukla's is > > not, is clearly not fair. It is a two way street.> > > > Alex just met the Indian leaders since he only joined Sahaja Yoga > last year. This accusation that those in authority are at times > arrogant and unbecoming of realized souls have been echoed over the > years by a number of people. i believe many SYs have been > disillusioned in one way or another, as i am, by their actions. We > have lost good professional people due to the actions of some SYs.> > Sure there are great leaders in some countries but the overall > picture is not that good. Shri Mataji has said that

seekers will be > attracted by the quality of SYs. Surely leaders are included and > play a vital role in getting others into Sahaja Yoga. The quality of > leadership should be gauged by the number of seekers attracted to > Sahaja Yoga through them, not the amount of pujas they organize or > attend.> > And once Shri Mataji leaves we will need good leaders to advance Her > cause. Somehow i feel great individual souls will join forces and > collectively do far more to attract seekers in future. The > groundwork for these souls to flourish in complete freedom without > any fear must be laid today so that tomorrow they can enlighten and > attract others.> > jagbir

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