Guest guest Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 VIolet, I thank you ever so much for this very insightful reply and of course the the time you put aside to go into so much detail for my benifit. This was an excellent read and i definatly see now what i couldn't see before, and for that i amalso thankful for your time and effort. I forgot that jagbir is a busy man and has requested that other SY help to take some of the workload so everyone can have answers to their questions n a timely manner, not to mention grow to become a family online as well. So i thank you for taking on this question for me, especially since i am not yet a sy yogi, but am planning to begin very soon(which is silly i know because i could go anytime and waiting is kind of stupid to say the least.). Im not sure if you are assigned people specifically to help guide or if it is just whomever has the time when whatever questions arise, but whatever the case may be, i wouldn't mind recieving your guidence on many issues, as your responses are always comprehensive, compassionate and informative, with very kind overtones to boot. IF you do ever see a message from me online and have the time, i would love to have your imput. Thankx again violet and of course, **i am thankful to everyone else on this forum for all their past imputs and all their future ones as well. **I guess SY's are both eachers and students. Kyyan shriadishakti , " violet_tubb " <vtubb@b...> wrote: > > > > Dear Kyyan, > > I will try to help you by " painting a picture " figuratively > speaking, to try and help you to see what " Pentecostalism " is all > about. > > We have Pentecostalism. People go to church. They have a nice time. > They want to " deepen " their faith and it often is very genuine. They > really want to get close to God. > > In the Pentecostal church service, things may happen like a rousing > song, clapping, and great camaraderie; everyone becomes " one in the > Spirit and one in the Lord " . Then they might " dance in the Spirit " > or " speak in tongues. " > > While people are in this excited state, a Minister may do > a " rousing " welcome such as " Halleluyah! Praise the Lord! How are > you my brother/sister? Are we well today/tonight?! The audience may > respond out loud and answer the ministers question out loud. > Everyone becomes like a happy family. > > This whole routine generates a state of " happiness " and " excitement " > at the " togetherness " felt. The audience may become slightly tired > from all this excitement and quite relaxed and may lapse into > a " receptive " state. (You could compare it to doing physical > exercise and you use up your oxygen from the exertion and then you > feel very relaxed and slightly sleepy. > > By the time the Minister is ready to give his sermon, everyone is in > such a " happy " state of mind that they will probably accept whatever > he says because in this state, what is said goes directly into the > brain without going through the " critical " process. Normally, what > the minister says would go through people's thinking faculties but > they are bypassed when people are in this happy receptive state of > mind. So, they can then accept whatever is said. > > This is a method of " conditioning " like you see on the Tele- > Evangelist's Programs on T.V. whereby they operate in this style > to " soften " people up for their " message. " You can also compare it > to when you inadvertently watch " ads " on T.V. but were not meaning > to do so. > > All these " highs " keep people on an " up " psychologically for the > week and they might also like to go to church on Wednesda, Friday > and Sunday to get a " boost " . > > If they don't go to church, they may feel a " downer " coming on and > they also feel very " guilty " because they have been convinced into > believing by the minister that if they do not go, they will likely > stray from the " straight and narrow " . > > These people often become " depressed " and " elated " in turns. The > subtle system works that way. They swing from their " left " channels > to their " right " channels of the Sympathetic Nervous System and that > is why it is so exhausting; these centres continually being drained. > > They are also " convinced " by the minister into believing that as > long as they talk to people about their " problems " and " pray " with > them, that they are being good Christians and will definitely go to > Heaven. > > They also teach, as you say, that " all problems are there for a > reason and that they are " blessings " in disguise; that there is a > reason for everything. This is not necessarily " wrong " but it is not > always " right " either under certain circumstances. > > Kyyan, the whole system is a bit of a merry-go-round. Pentecostals > believe that they are talking to God because they " feel " > the " euphoria " is the Holy Spirit. You will not be able to tell them > otherwise! You can compare the " addictive trend " like a runners that > are addicted to physical exercise to get the " adrenalin rush " . > > The Bible predicted that we would receive the Baptism of the Holy > Spirit at this time. The Incarnation of the " Comforter " has come in > the person of Sri Mataji Nirmala Devi. Previously, the Baptism of > the Holy Spirit was received by very few " initiates " such as the > disciples and the Gnostics and others but they were separate from > the main congregations of Christianity as were the " private " > teachings of Jesus Christ. > > Meanwhile, over the centuries, the " priestly caste " has become very > powerful. The " priestly caste " is referred to in the Bible as > the " blind leading the blind " . The " priestly caste " in fact is so > busy with " politics " and " dogma " , that they " cannot enter in > themselves and prevent others " (Bible).These " priestly caste " are > called " blind " , because, true to fundamentalism, they close their > eyes to the Truth found in the essence of all religions. They often > even consider non-Pentecostal branches of Christianity not to have > the full " gospel truth " . They believe that they are the only ones to > have the " full gospel " because they believe that they are able to > give everyone the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. > > The real Baptism of the Holy Spirit is felt as a Cool Breeze, which > was felt on the Day of Pentecost when the disciples felt the wind. > > In addition to " bringing to remembrance " the old Truths, Sri Mataji > has also " enlightened " and " explained " a lot. This includes the > teachings of all the Incarnations and Prophets. She also fulfills > the prophecy of the Last Judgment and the Resurrection and gives us > a positive message that we can " evolve " or " ascend " to become our > Spirt and avoid thereby be " saved " from the calamities happening > around us today all over the world. > > In Pentecostalism, though, they think that they have the > exclusive " outpouring of the Holy Spirit " and that no one is going > to be " saved " except the Fundamentalist Pentecostal Christians. > > Kyyan, I'm sure your mother loves you and you love her. I can tell > you that she feels 100% sure that she is on the right path; is in > touch with God and so forth. There is no way you could convince her > otherwise, because of her 'experiences'. Sorry to have to say this, > but it is true. People who are entrenched in " Pentecostalism " are > utterly convinced and will not see it any other way. Unless > some " miracle " happens or something " bad " happens, like the minister > committing some grave " sin " (and this has happened), that people > wake up and take notice. > > Another thing is that Fundamentalist Christians in general all study > their Bibles very thoroughly. They will have a Bible Verse to back > up everything they say. Unfortunately, the ministers however, tell > them how to " interpret " the Scriptures, depending on their " dogmas " . > These " interpretations " are often very wrong. Were a person like > yourself, Kyyan, to study the Bible and not be " influenced " by > these " interpretations " and " dogmas " , you would have a much better > chance to find the real Truth. You would be surprised at what you > find in the Bible. There is a lot of depth there. > > Kyyan, you say that your mother has never met God. The reason you > can say this, I believe, is that you sense that this " merry-go- > round " is all an " outward " thing, and it is. > > The real Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a very " inner " experience and > makes you your own " guru " , " master " and " teacher " , rather than > someone subject to all the " conditionings " imposed by the churches. > > Kyyan, your mother is very " genuine " in her belief and she is doing > everything to the best of her ability to follow what she believes to > be true. You see, it is not her fault in a way. Its is the fault of > the " blind leaders " to a large extent. > > Unfortunately, Pentecostals follow the Fundamentalist Christian > doctrines so there is no problem for a " devout Catholic " to > go " Pentecostal " . A lot of people are falling into this " trap " from > the so-called " frying pan " of " fundamentalism " to the all- > consuming " fire " of " Pentecostalism " . > > That's why there is a need to get the message out urgently about SM > and the Last Judgment and Resurrection, so that Christians have a > chance to have the " real " Baptism of the Holy Spirit, rather than > the " fake " one. Christians already believe in the Last Judgment and > Resurrection, although a very Doomsday version of it. > > Fundamentalist Christians do not believe in the unity of the Truth > of Jesus, Mohammed, Abraham, Moses, Confucius, Socrates, Plato, Guru > Nanak and others, so they are dividing the Truth. However, Truth is > One. > > Kyyan, all you can do is to seek and see the Truth clearly yourself > and live your life that way. You need to be your own guru and not > let anyone else become your guru and I believe from what you have > said, that you are doing that. > > Meanwhile, please do have love and compassion for your mother > because she is treading a difficult path full of pitfalls. Stand up > for yourself and be firm and true to your own Spirit and speak your > Truth quietly and with confidence when your mother wishes to talk. > > This way you can be a " mirror " for your mother and maybe one day > help her out of this " trap " . One tip though; you will also need to > familiarize yourself with the Bible and other Holy Books to give you > the understanding and " grounding " for your experiences. This website > helps you a lot in that way. > > I hope this can help you to " see " things a bit more clearly. > > Violet > shriadishakti , " v_koa " <v_koa> wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > I was sitting at home today and listening to my mother talk to one > > of her friends on the phone about both of their troubles etc, and > my > > mother is a devout catholic, and she was comforting her friend and > > assuring her many of her friends problems are actually " blessings " > > and many of the coincidences in her life and my mothers life in > > regards to the people they meet and have met, either for the good > or > > the bad, were all part of gods plan for them or were there for a > > special purpose ordained by god. Now considering I fully believe > all > > that sahaja yoga is about and adishakti.org is about, even if it > is > > only at an intellectual level for me right now, these things my > > mother says " I'll pray for you " , " the reason why such things are > > happening or people are in your life must be the will of god or > for > > a special purpose by god " seem so ridiculous to me. I mean none of > > these people have had their realization or know anything of the > > kundalini, kingdom of god within or holy spirit, especially the > holy > > spirit outside a church context. Not only that, but she is always > > talking about praying for this person and for their healing and > this > > and that, but if they aren't connected to god or even for that > > matter the HOLY SPIRIT except for in their minds( they haven't had > > realization so aren't they disconnect from the HS?)who are they > > talking to or requesting help from? Wouldn't that just be the > power > > of intention and not the HS? As well my mother has the " gift of > > tongues " so to speak, but I really think that has nothing to do > with > > god or the holy spirit whatsoever, but she deems these experiences > > she has had and her intuition in regards to things, because it is > > quite strong, as being guided by the holy spirit. IF this is not > > that case, then what force or entity or trick of the mind are > > controlling such things or influencing such behavior, thoughts and > > experiences. I've always wondered this. When we have conversations > > about the spirit, it always comes back to these things and in my > > head I'm thinking " you have never met god " , though neither have I. > > > > I don't know if this is a post with questions in it or just me > > wanting to knows things I can't articulate, but if anyone out > there > > can pick this apart and find anything in here to shed some light > on > > whatever it is I am looking for, that would be great. > > > > Kyyan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 shriadishakti , " v_koa " <v_koa> wrote: > > i am not yet a sy yogi, but am planning to begin very soon (which > is silly i know because i could go anytime and waiting is kind of > stupid to say the least.). > > know_yourself_sy " Sahaja Yoga " <yogasahaja Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:58:16 -0000 HWP for Friday, February 18, 2005 " He knew when the Resurrection takes place, the Kundalini rises and connects you to the Divine Power, which is all-pervading. Then you start understanding that there's a life beyond the life that you have made. There's another type of life, a higher type of life, which connects you to the Divine Power. And then this Divine Power gives you the Absolute Truth. If you grow more and more, you will know Absolute Truth because so far you don't know. " Istambul, Turkey April 15, 2001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Dear Kyyan, I am happy that I could be of help and if I can help in future also will do. Violet - " v_koa " <v_koa <shriadishakti > Friday, February 18, 2005 1:09 AM [shriadishakti] Thank you violet, very much > > > VIolet, > > I thank you ever so much for this very insightful reply and of > course the the time you put aside to go into so much detail for my > benifit. This was an excellent read and i definatly see now what i > couldn't see before, and for that i amalso thankful for your time > and effort. > > I forgot that jagbir is a busy man and has requested that other SY > help to take some of the workload so everyone can have answers to > their questions n a timely manner, not to mention grow to become a > family online as well. So i thank you for taking on this question > for me, especially since i am not yet a sy yogi, but am planning to > begin very soon(which is silly i know because i could go anytime and > waiting is kind of stupid to say the least.). > > Im not sure if you are assigned people specifically to help guide or > if it is just whomever has the time when whatever questions arise, > but whatever the case may be, i wouldn't mind recieving your > guidence on many issues, as your responses are always comprehensive, > compassionate and informative, with very kind overtones to boot. IF > you do ever see a message from me online and have the time, i would > love to have your imput. > > Thankx again violet and of course, **i am thankful to everyone else > on this forum for all their past imputs and all their future ones as > well. **I guess SY's are both eachers and students. > > Kyyan > > shriadishakti , " violet_tubb " <vtubb@b...> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear Kyyan, >> >> I will try to help you by " painting a picture " figuratively >> speaking, to try and help you to see what " Pentecostalism " is all >> about. >> >> We have Pentecostalism. People go to church. They have a nice > time. >> They want to " deepen " their faith and it often is very genuine. > They >> really want to get close to God. >> >> In the Pentecostal church service, things may happen like a > rousing >> song, clapping, and great camaraderie; everyone becomes " one in > the >> Spirit and one in the Lord " . Then they might " dance in the Spirit " >> or " speak in tongues. " >> >> While people are in this excited state, a Minister may do >> a " rousing " welcome such as " Halleluyah! Praise the Lord! How are >> you my brother/sister? Are we well today/tonight?! The audience > may >> respond out loud and answer the ministers question out loud. >> Everyone becomes like a happy family. >> >> This whole routine generates a state of " happiness " > and " excitement " >> at the " togetherness " felt. The audience may become slightly tired >> from all this excitement and quite relaxed and may lapse into >> a " receptive " state. (You could compare it to doing physical >> exercise and you use up your oxygen from the exertion and then you >> feel very relaxed and slightly sleepy. >> >> By the time the Minister is ready to give his sermon, everyone is > in >> such a " happy " state of mind that they will probably accept > whatever >> he says because in this state, what is said goes directly into the >> brain without going through the " critical " process. Normally, what >> the minister says would go through people's thinking faculties but >> they are bypassed when people are in this happy receptive state of >> mind. So, they can then accept whatever is said. >> >> This is a method of " conditioning " like you see on the Tele- >> Evangelist's Programs on T.V. whereby they operate in this style >> to " soften " people up for their " message. " You can also compare it >> to when you inadvertently watch " ads " on T.V. but were not meaning >> to do so. >> >> All these " highs " keep people on an " up " psychologically for the >> week and they might also like to go to church on Wednesda, Friday >> and Sunday to get a " boost " . >> >> If they don't go to church, they may feel a " downer " coming on and >> they also feel very " guilty " because they have been convinced into >> believing by the minister that if they do not go, they will likely >> stray from the " straight and narrow " . >> >> These people often become " depressed " and " elated " in turns. The >> subtle system works that way. They swing from their " left " > channels >> to their " right " channels of the Sympathetic Nervous System and > that >> is why it is so exhausting; these centres continually being > drained. >> >> They are also " convinced " by the minister into believing that as >> long as they talk to people about their " problems " and " pray " with >> them, that they are being good Christians and will definitely go > to >> Heaven. >> >> They also teach, as you say, that " all problems are there for a >> reason and that they are " blessings " in disguise; that there is a >> reason for everything. This is not necessarily " wrong " but it is > not >> always " right " either under certain circumstances. >> >> Kyyan, the whole system is a bit of a merry-go-round. Pentecostals >> believe that they are talking to God because they " feel " >> the " euphoria " is the Holy Spirit. You will not be able to tell > them >> otherwise! You can compare the " addictive trend " like a runners > that >> are addicted to physical exercise to get the " adrenalin rush " . >> >> The Bible predicted that we would receive the Baptism of the Holy >> Spirit at this time. The Incarnation of the " Comforter " has come > in >> the person of Sri Mataji Nirmala Devi. Previously, the Baptism of >> the Holy Spirit was received by very few " initiates " such as the >> disciples and the Gnostics and others but they were separate from >> the main congregations of Christianity as were the " private " >> teachings of Jesus Christ. >> >> Meanwhile, over the centuries, the " priestly caste " has become > very >> powerful. The " priestly caste " is referred to in the Bible as >> the " blind leading the blind " . The " priestly caste " in fact is so >> busy with " politics " and " dogma " , that they " cannot enter in >> themselves and prevent others " (Bible).These " priestly caste " are >> called " blind " , because, true to fundamentalism, they close their >> eyes to the Truth found in the essence of all religions. They > often >> even consider non-Pentecostal branches of Christianity not to have >> the full " gospel truth " . They believe that they are the only ones > to >> have the " full gospel " because they believe that they are able to >> give everyone the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. >> >> The real Baptism of the Holy Spirit is felt as a Cool Breeze, > which >> was felt on the Day of Pentecost when the disciples felt the wind. >> >> In addition to " bringing to remembrance " the old Truths, Sri > Mataji >> has also " enlightened " and " explained " a lot. This includes the >> teachings of all the Incarnations and Prophets. She also fulfills >> the prophecy of the Last Judgment and the Resurrection and gives > us >> a positive message that we can " evolve " or " ascend " to become our >> Spirt and avoid thereby be " saved " from the calamities happening >> around us today all over the world. >> >> In Pentecostalism, though, they think that they have the >> exclusive " outpouring of the Holy Spirit " and that no one is going >> to be " saved " except the Fundamentalist Pentecostal Christians. >> >> Kyyan, I'm sure your mother loves you and you love her. I can tell >> you that she feels 100% sure that she is on the right path; is in >> touch with God and so forth. There is no way you could convince > her >> otherwise, because of her 'experiences'. Sorry to have to say > this, >> but it is true. People who are entrenched in " Pentecostalism " are >> utterly convinced and will not see it any other way. Unless >> some " miracle " happens or something " bad " happens, like the > minister >> committing some grave " sin " (and this has happened), that people >> wake up and take notice. >> >> Another thing is that Fundamentalist Christians in general all > study >> their Bibles very thoroughly. They will have a Bible Verse to back >> up everything they say. Unfortunately, the ministers however, tell >> them how to " interpret " the Scriptures, depending on > their " dogmas " . >> These " interpretations " are often very wrong. Were a person like >> yourself, Kyyan, to study the Bible and not be " influenced " by >> these " interpretations " and " dogmas " , you would have a much better >> chance to find the real Truth. You would be surprised at what you >> find in the Bible. There is a lot of depth there. >> >> Kyyan, you say that your mother has never met God. The reason you >> can say this, I believe, is that you sense that this " merry-go- >> round " is all an " outward " thing, and it is. >> >> The real Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a very " inner " experience > and >> makes you your own " guru " , " master " and " teacher " , rather than >> someone subject to all the " conditionings " imposed by the churches. >> >> Kyyan, your mother is very " genuine " in her belief and she is > doing >> everything to the best of her ability to follow what she believes > to >> be true. You see, it is not her fault in a way. Its is the fault > of >> the " blind leaders " to a large extent. >> >> Unfortunately, Pentecostals follow the Fundamentalist Christian >> doctrines so there is no problem for a " devout Catholic " to >> go " Pentecostal " . A lot of people are falling into this " trap " > from >> the so-called " frying pan " of " fundamentalism " to the all- >> consuming " fire " of " Pentecostalism " . >> >> That's why there is a need to get the message out urgently about > SM >> and the Last Judgment and Resurrection, so that Christians have a >> chance to have the " real " Baptism of the Holy Spirit, rather than >> the " fake " one. Christians already believe in the Last Judgment > and >> Resurrection, although a very Doomsday version of it. >> >> Fundamentalist Christians do not believe in the unity of the Truth >> of Jesus, Mohammed, Abraham, Moses, Confucius, Socrates, Plato, > Guru >> Nanak and others, so they are dividing the Truth. However, Truth > is >> One. >> >> Kyyan, all you can do is to seek and see the Truth clearly > yourself >> and live your life that way. You need to be your own guru and not >> let anyone else become your guru and I believe from what you have >> said, that you are doing that. >> >> Meanwhile, please do have love and compassion for your mother >> because she is treading a difficult path full of pitfalls. Stand > up >> for yourself and be firm and true to your own Spirit and speak > your >> Truth quietly and with confidence when your mother wishes to talk. >> >> This way you can be a " mirror " for your mother and maybe one day >> help her out of this " trap " . One tip though; you will also need to >> familiarize yourself with the Bible and other Holy Books to give > you >> the understanding and " grounding " for your experiences. This > website >> helps you a lot in that way. >> >> I hope this can help you to " see " things a bit more clearly. >> >> Violet >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> shriadishakti , " v_koa " <v_koa> wrote: >> > >> > Dear all, >> > >> > I was sitting at home today and listening to my mother talk to > one >> > of her friends on the phone about both of their troubles etc, > and >> my >> > mother is a devout catholic, and she was comforting her friend > and >> > assuring her many of her friends problems are > actually " blessings " >> > and many of the coincidences in her life and my mothers life in >> > regards to the people they meet and have met, either for the > good >> or >> > the bad, were all part of gods plan for them or were there for a >> > special purpose ordained by god. Now considering I fully believe >> all >> > that sahaja yoga is about and adishakti.org is about, even if it >> is >> > only at an intellectual level for me right now, these things my >> > mother says " I'll pray for you " , " the reason why such things are >> > happening or people are in your life must be the will of god or >> for >> > a special purpose by god " seem so ridiculous to me. I mean none > of >> > these people have had their realization or know anything of the >> > kundalini, kingdom of god within or holy spirit, especially the >> holy >> > spirit outside a church context. Not only that, but she is > always >> > talking about praying for this person and for their healing and >> this >> > and that, but if they aren't connected to god or even for that >> > matter the HOLY SPIRIT except for in their minds( they haven't > had >> > realization so aren't they disconnect from the HS?)who are they >> > talking to or requesting help from? Wouldn't that just be the >> power >> > of intention and not the HS? As well my mother has the " gift of >> > tongues " so to speak, but I really think that has nothing to do >> with >> > god or the holy spirit whatsoever, but she deems these > experiences >> > she has had and her intuition in regards to things, because it > is >> > quite strong, as being guided by the holy spirit. IF this is not >> > that case, then what force or entity or trick of the mind are >> > controlling such things or influencing such behavior, thoughts > and >> > experiences. I've always wondered this. When we have > conversations >> > about the spirit, it always comes back to these things and in my >> > head I'm thinking " you have never met god " , though neither have > I. >> > >> > I don't know if this is a post with questions in it or just me >> > wanting to knows things I can't articulate, but if anyone out >> there >> > can pick this apart and find anything in here to shed some > light >> on >> > whatever it is I am looking for, that would be great. >> > >> > Kyyan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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