Jukka, you are still eluding my comments on Ishmael !

[Guest guest]

, " jukkasavelainen "

<jukkasavelainen> wrote:

>

> Uhum....What a lot of...

>

> Excuse me, but this is going much too far. I AM NOT CLAIMING TO BE

> DIVINE, is this understood?

>

>

 

Dear Jukka,

 

Maybe you have stopped claiming yourself as divine but that Ishmael

has not. But why do you send his diary and photos to others? And you

have never admitted that Ishmael is just one delusional character

amongst tens of thousands of self-realized SYs. It is this silence

about your freind that makes me suspect birds of a feather flock

together.

 

And that Ishmael character has just taken that biblical name to make

himself special and claim the title of Kalki. Nuts like him should

see a shrink. And people like you should stop advertising on his

behalf and trawl for members on SY forums. Just leave us in peace so

that we can worship Shri Mataji. Stop wasting our time and attention

on pseudo-incarnations like Ishmael.

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

Huh-huh, Jagbir,

 

So I should discuss here with you about Ishmael? I should comment how

I felt when reading that Ishmael's diary, and how I felt when the

moderaters went in this craze of calling other yogis as devils?

 

About the first matter, I am not expert; I am still a beginning sahaja

yogi, and I can not claim that my Sahasrara is fully opened, or that I

have achieved full union with the Goddess; or that I mave much

understanding about these matters. I have said many times, that I

don't know.

 

But since you ask, I will try explaining my feelings of this subject.

 

I can well understand your shock, when some parts of his diary went so

explicitly.. I don't know how should I call. To tell the truth, I

wasn't shocked, really; I am a man of literature, and so accustomed to

all sorts of writings, good and bad, vulgar and elegant, fine and

brutal. So I just read there, without any reaction pro-and-con. I can

read like this, flipping through books.

 

I felt it was written in strangely mythological tone. I felt the

question rising, why is this man wanting to share with us these

experiences and thoughts? I did contact him, and we became friends,

but still I was completely at loss what he means, and what is he

talking about.

 

I don't really feel it's my task to condemn other people to hell, or

give excommunications, you see. I may sometimes react and be angry,

and it will pass; but this judging business I am willing to leave to

Mother.

 

When I saw you moderators judging, I felt you are committing a sin

there. It's so clearly said; I heard it with my own ears that no

sahaja yogi has the right to say to another sahaja yogi what he is or

what he is not. Shri Mataji has said this. In same way, as She

cancelled the power to give curses.

 

I was wondering why you seem to take the matter so personally. Then

you deleted one of my posting; it was The Everlasting Gospel by

William Blake, and it was then I understood that it's you, who are

attacking against the Divine.

 

There's two sons against the Mother; 1.) Denying the yoginess of

another sahaja yogi, which you have no right to do. 2.) Deleting the

pure words of William Blake, who is an Archangel.

 

I was shocked about this, and in my evening meditation asked from

Mother " With what kind of people I am dealing with here? " " They accuse

other people being anti-god, but they are behaving veru badly

themselves. Who are they? are they immune to the Law? " And Mother

answered: " Yes, they think they are. "

 

At that point I lost all joy in talking with you moderators and yogis

in here shriadishakti-website.

 

So, if you are willing to begin the communication about this subject,

let's talk about scriptures. I had there many ideas from kahlil

Gibran; then I had Everlasting Gospel from Blake, and they say it's

the essence of Blake's message in this text. So read this Blake, and

we can discuss what are the forces of repression, and what is freedom;

freedom of thought, freedom of speech, what is respect, what is

communication, what are the civilized manners.

 

I asked you to read that Peter Ackroyds book about Blake, so i assume

you've read it. Just a neutral hypotheses: isn't there a similarity

here what Blake is writing and what Ishmael is writing? Don't react,

if I am wrong I am wrong. I may mistake. But lets study this like

scientists. Can you follow me? What you think? Not just Jagbir, but

the rest of you yogis?

 

Jukkaji.

 

The deleted posting from the forum:

 

-----------------------------

 

The Everlasting Gospel by William Blake

 

Blake might indeed have been starved, but for the good fortune in

meeting in 1818 the young artist John Linell, through whose help he

was able to live while drawing and engraving his great series of

illustrations to the Book of Job and to Dante. It was about this time

that he wrote his last important poem The Everlasting Gospel. It is,

for him, a new kind of poetry, in which his elaborate symbolism is

abandoned for the barest and most direct statement with complete

success. In it Jesus appears as the last of his series of Promethean

heroes at war with the Satanic forces of repression. The date of this

poem is noteworthy. It is often suggested that Blake in his later life

modified his ideas, coming closer to those of orthodox Christianity,

yet the fact is that in this work of his old age they are expressed

with the greatest clarity and sharpness. It is clear also, from the

condition in which the text has reached us, that the ideas in The

Everlasting Gospel were a constant pre-occupation, something to which

he constantly returned and never ceased to reshape. " (Morton 20)

 

A. L. Morton sees this work by William Blake as the clearest of the

windows the poet and artist opens for us into his soul, and indeed it

may be. However, what you will most likely find through the use of

this resource is that even a " direct statement " from Blake is not a

direct statement. The importance of the ideas expressed in The

Everlasting Gospel and their continual presence in Blake's mind may be

clear enough, but what these ideas actually are is anything but clear.

To Morton, Blake's statements in this work may be full of " clarity and

sharpness, " and you may also weave your way through this site and

arrive at some understanding of Blake's message, if indeed you

discover that he has one. But understand this: the two of you may not

have read the same " poem. " And if you read it again, you may find that

it has changed. Blake once said, " that which can be made Explicit to

the Idiot is not worth my care " (letter to Trusler, 1799), and he

apparently meant it.

 

The Everlasting Gospel by William Blake

 

(from the Rossetti Manuscript part III, Written circa 1810.)

 

-á-

The Vision of Christ that thou dost see

Is my Vision's Greatest Enemy

Thine has a great hook nose like thine

Mine has a snub nose like to mine

Thine is the Friend of All Mankind

Mine speaks in parables to the Blind

Thine loves the same world that mine hates

Thy Heaven doors are my Hell Gates

Socrates taught what Melitus

Loathd as a Nations bitterest Curse

And Caiphas was in his own Mind

A benefactor of Mankind

Both read the Bible day & night

But thou readst black where I read white.

 

-â-

Was Jesus gentle or did he

Give any marks of Gentility

When twelve years old he ran away

And left his Parents in dismay

When after three days sorrow found

Loud as Sinai's trumpet sound

No Earthly Parents I confess

My Heavenly Fathers business

Ye understand not what I say

And angry force me to obey

Obedience is a duty then

And favour gains with God & Men

John from the Wilderness loud cried

Satan gloried in his Pride

" Come " said Satan " come away

Ill soon see if youll obey

John for disobedience bled

But you can turn the stones to bread

Gods high king & Gods high Priest

Shall Plant their Glories in your breast

If Caiaphas you will obey

If Herod you with bloody Prey

Feed with the Sacrifice & be

Obedient fall down worship me. "

Thunders & lightnings broke around

And Jesus voice in thunders sound

Thus I sieze the Spiritual Prey

Ye smiters with disease make way

I come Your King & God to sieze

Is God a Smiter with disease

The God of this World raged in vain

He bound Old Satan in his Chain

And bursting forth his furious ire

Became a Chariot of fire

Throughout the land he took his course

And traced Diseases to their Source

He cursd the Scribe & Pharisee

 

Trampling down Hipocrisy

Where eer his Chariot took its way

There Gates of Death let in the Day

Broke down from every Chain & Bar

And Satan in his Spiritual War

Dragd at his Chariot wheels loud howld

The God of this World louder rolld

The Chariot Wheels & louder still

His voice was heard from Zions hill

And in his hand the Scourge shone bright

He scourgd the Merchant Canaanite

From out the Temple of his Mind

And in his Body tight does bind

Satan & all his Hellish Crew

And thus with wrath he did subdue

The Serpent Bulk of Natures dross

Till he had naild it to the Cross

He took on Sin in the Virgins Womb

And put it off on the Cross & Tomb

To be Worshipd by the Church of Rome.

 

- ã-

Was Jesus Humble or did he

Give any Proofs of Humility

Boast of high Things with Humble tone

And give with Charity a Stone

When but a Child he ran away

And left his Parents in Dismay

When they had wanderd three days long

These were the words upon his tongue

No Earthly Parents I confess

I am doing my Fathers business

When the rich learned Pharisee

 

Came to consult him secretly

Upon his heart with Iron pen

He wrote Ye must be born again

He was too proud to take a bribe

He spoke with authority not like a Scribe

He says with most consummate Art

Follow me I am meek & lowly of heart

As that is the only way to escape

The Misers net & the Gluttons trap

He who loves his Enemies betrays his Friends

This surely is not what Jesus intends

But the sneaking Pride of Heroic Schools

And the Scribes & Pharisees Virtuous Rules

For he acts with honest triumphant Pride

And this is the cause that Jesus died

He did not die with Christian Ease

Asking Pardon of his Enemies

If he had Caiphas would forgive

Sneaking submission can always live

He had only to say that God was the devil

And the devil was God like a Christian Civil

Mild Christian regrets to the devil confess

For affronting him thrice in the Wilderness

He had soon been bloody Caesars Elf

And at last he would have been Caesar himself

Like dr Priestly & Bacon & Newton

Poor Spiritual Knowledge is not worth a button

For thus the Gospel Sr Isaac confutes

God can only be known by his Attributes

And as for the Indwelling of the Holy Ghost

Or of Christ & his Father its all a boast

And Pride & Vanity of Imagination

That disdains to follow this Worlds Fashion

To teach doubt & Experiment

Certainly was not what Christ meant

What was he doing all that time

From twelve years old to manly prime

Was he then Idle or the Less

About his Fathers business

Or was his wisdom held in scorn

Before his wrath began to burn

In Miracles throughout the Land

That quite unnervd Lord Caiaphas hand

If he had been Antichrist Creeping Jesus

Hed have done any thing to please us

Gone sneaking into Synagogues

 

And not usd the Elders & Priests like dogs

But Humble as a Lamb or Ass

Obeyd himself to Caiaphas

God wants not Man to Humble himself

This is the trick of the ancient Elf

This is the Race that Jesus ran

Humble to God Haughty to Man

Cursing the Rulers before the People

Even to the temples highest Steeple

And when he Humbled himself to God

Then descended the Cruel Rod

If thou humblest thyself thou humblest me

Thou also dwellst in Eternity

Thou art a Man God is no more

Thy own humanity learn to adore

For that is my Spirit of Life

Awake arise to Spiritual Strife

And thy Revenge abroad display

In terrors at the Last Judgment day

Gods Mercy & Long Suffering

Is but the Sinner to Judgment to bring

Thou on the Cross for them shalt pray

And take Revenge at the Last Day

Jesus replied & thunders hurld

I never will Pray for the World

Once did so when I prayd ill the Garden

I wishd to take with me a Bodily Pardon

Can that which was of Woman born

In the absence of the Morn

When the Soul fell into Sleep

And Archangels round it weep

Shooting out against the Light

Fibres of a deadly night

Reasoning upon its own Dark Fiction

In Doubt which is Self Contradiction

Humility is only Doubt

And does the Sun & Moon blot out

Rooting over with thorns & stems

The buried Soul & all its Gems

This Lifes dim Windows of the Soul

Distorts the Heavens from Pole to Pole

And leads you to Believe a Lie

When you see with not thro the Eye

That was born in a night to perish in a night

When the Soul slept in the beams of Light.

-ä-

This was spoken by my Spectre to Voltaire, Bacon, etc.

Did Jesus teach doubt? or did He

Give any lessons of philosophy,

Charge Visionaries with deceiving,

Or call men wise for not believing? …

-å-

Was Jesus born of a Virgin pure

With narrow soul and looks demure?

If He intended to take on sin

The Mother should an harlot been,

Just such a one as Magdalen,

With seven devils in her pen.

Or were Jew virgins still more curs'd?

And more sucking devils nurs'd?

Or what was it which He took on

That He might bring salvation?

A body subject to be tempted,

From neither pain nor grief exempted;

Or such a body as might not feel

The passions that with sinners deal?

Yes, but they say He never fell.

Ask Caiaphas; for he can tell. –

" He mock'd the Sabbath, and He mock'd

The Sabbath's God, and He unlock'd

The evil spirits from their shrines,

And turn'd fishermen to divines;

O'erturn'd the tent of secret sins,

And it's golden cords and pins,

In the bloody shrine of war

Pour'd around from star to star, -

Halls of justice, hating vice.

Where the Devil combs his lice.

He turn'd devils into swine

That He might tempt the Jews to dine;

Since which, a pig has got a look

That for a Jew may be mistook.

" Obey your parents. " - What says He?

" Woman, what have I to do with thee?

No earthly parents I confess:

I am doing my Father's business. "

He scorn'd Earth's parents, scorn'd Earth's God,

And mock'd the one and the other's rod;

His seventy Disciples sent

They by the sword of Justice fell,

And Him their cruel murderer tell.

He left His father's trade to roam,

And wand'ring vagrant without home;

And thus He other's labour stole,

That he might live above control.

The publicians and harlots He

Selected for His company,

And from the adulteress turn'd away

God's righteous law, that lost it's prey. "

-æ -

Was Jesus Chaste or did he

Give any Lessons of Chastity

The morning blushd fiery red

Mary was found in Adulterous bed

Earth groand beneath & Heaven above

Trembled at discovery of Love

Jesus was sitting in Moses Chair

They brought the trembling Woman There

Moses commands she be stoned to Death

What was the sound of Jesus breath

He laid his hand on Moses Law

The Ancient Heavens in Silent Awe

Writ with Curses from Pole to Pole

All away began to roll

The Earth trembling & Naked lay

In secret bed of Mortal Clay

On Sinai felt the hand Divine

Putting back the bloody shrine

And she heard the breath of God

As she heard by Edens flood

" Good & Evil are no more! "

Sinais trumpets cease to roar

Cease finger of God to Write

The Heavens are not clean in thy Sight

Thou art Good & thou Alone

Nor may the sinner cast one stone

To be Good only is to be

A Devil or else a Pharisee

Thou Angel of the Presence Divine

That didst create this Body of Mine

Wherefore has[t] thou writ these Laws

And Created Hells dark jaws

My Presence I will take from thee

A Cold Leper thou shalt be

Tho thou wast so pure & bright

That Heaven was Impure in thy Sight,

Tho thy Oath turnd Heaven Pale

Tho thy Covenant built Hells Jail

Tho thou didst all to Chaos roll

With the Serpent for its soul

Still the breath Divine does move

And the breath Divine is Love

Mary Fear Not Let me see

The Seven Devils that torment thee

Hide not from my Sight thy Sin

That forgiveness thou maist win

Has no Man Condemned thee

No Man Lord! then what is he

Who shall Accuse thee. Come Ye forth

Fallen Fiends of Heavnly birth

That have forgot your Ancient love

And driven away my trembling Dove

You shall bow before her feet

You shall lick the dust for Meat

And tho you cannot Love but Hate

Shall be beggars at Loves Gate

What was thy love Let me see it

Was it love or Dark Deceit

Love too long from Me has fled.

Twas dark deceit to Earn my bread

Twas Covet or twas Custom or

Some trifle not worth caring for

That they may call a shame & Sin

Loves Temple that God dwelleth in

And hide in secret hidden Shrine

The Naked Human form divine

And render that a Lawless thing

On which the Soul Expands its wing

But this O Lord this was my Sin

When first I let these Devils in

In dark pretence to Chastity

Blaspheming Love blaspheming thee

Thence Rose Secret Adulteries

And thence did Covet also rise

My Sin thou hast forgiven me

Canst thou forgive my Blasphemy

Canst thou return to this dark Hell

And in my burning bosom dwell

And canst thou Die that I may live

And canst thou Pity & forgive

Then Rolld the shadowy Man away

From the Limbs of Jesus to make them his prey

An Ever devoring appetite

Glittering with festering Venoms bright

Crying Crucify this cause of distress

Who dont keep the secrets of Holiness

All Mental Powers by Diseases we bind

But he heals the Deaf & the Dumb & the Blind

Whom God has afflicted for Secret Ends

He comforts & Heals & calls them Friends

But when Jesus was Crucified

Then was perfected his glittring pride

In three Nights he devourd his prey

And still he devours the Body of Clay

For Dust & Clay is the Serpents meat

Which never was made for Man to Eat.

-ç-

Seeing this False Christ, in fury and passion

I made my voice heard all over the nation.

What are those…

-è-

I am sure This Jesus will not do,

Either for Englishman or Jew.

Source: http://virtual.park.uga.edu/~wblake/EverlastingGospel/egtp.html

More Blake's e-texts :

http://www.english.uga.edu/nhilton/Blake/blaketxt1/