Re:dire consequences of lust ( Rasa)

[Guest guest]

Dear Rasa,

I'd like to make some comments on your post.

The Sixth commandment is:You must not commit adultery.

The Tenth commandment is:You must not be envious of your neighbour's

house, or want to sleep with his wife, or want to own his slaves,

oxen,donkeys, or anything else he has.

'The Living Bible' Paraphrased

Lust is a separate issue from sex in a marriage, lust is defined

as 'a strong desire to possess; sinful, impure desire;the lusts of

the flesh;ie bodily desires, hunger, sex appetite, etc 'Oxford

dictionary.' When talking about lust, we therefore mean the lack of

control of normal human desires, an excess and loss of control of

desire.

It is significant that Mother Mary IS a Mother, she conceived Jesus

Her Son, and then lived a normal married life with Joseph.

Matthew 1:18-25

18:These are the facts concerning the birth of Jesus Christ: His

Mother, Mary, was engaged to be married to Joseph. But while she was

still a virgin, she became pregnant by the Holy Spirit.

19:Then Joseph, her fiance, being a man of stern principle,decided

to break the engagement but to do it quietly, as he didn't want to

publically disgrace her.

20:As he lay awake considering this, he fell into a dream, and saw

an angel standing beside him. " Joseph, son of David, " the angel

said, " Don't hesitate to take Mary as your wife! For the child

within her has been conceived by the Holy Spirit.

21: And she will have a Son, and you shall name him Jesus, meaning

Saviour, for He will save his people from their sins.

22:This will fulfill God's message through his prophets,-

23:'Listen! The virgin shall conceive a child! She shall give birth

to a Son, and he shall be called 'Emmanuel', meaning God is with us.

24:When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel commanded, and brought

Mary home to be his wife,

25:but she remained a virgin until her Son was born; and Joseph

named him 'Jesus'.

 

We can see from this above passage, that Mary is the Mother, and

that she lived in matrimony, caring for the needs of her husband and

child. Nowhere is celibacy advocated; why should it be? Why should

humans deny the sacred act that is the act of creation of life, how

can anyone say in all honesty that this is a defilement and

something to be strictly avoided? Celibacy is a human concept,

brought about by guilt and impure thoughts. It is these impure and

unnatural thoughts about sex that have given rise to so much wrong-

doing in the world; Female circumcision in middle Africa, the

complete covering and shamefulness of the female body in Muslim

countries, to the extreme permissiveness of sexual attitudes in the

West today, arising as a result and rebellion of the repression of

the Puritan and Victorian attitudes.

You are effectively saying that men and women must deny all their

sexuality, in order to be spiritual. This is in contradiction of

what has been written in all the Scriptures though, and is a result

of your Catholic conditioning. Yes, all desires need to be

controlled, or else they control us. Sex is a natural, normal part

of married life; a sharing and giving of intimacy. If one is at

peace with one's sexuality, why would it disturb one's spiritual

growth? However, if one approaches sex as something ugly, filthy, to

be hidden, hated and denied, it becomes as damaging and unresolved

to the psyche as unconsidered and permissive sex indulged in for

physical pleasure only. Please note that there is a high incidence

of sexual abuse and trauma associated with movements advocating

celibacy, claiming that sex is 'evil, unnecessary, an obstacle and

impediment, a weakness, and other such things.' Both views are an

imbalance, and suppression causes guilt and associated emotions

which eat away at our inner selves, and disturb the Inner Peace.

Best wishes, Semira

 

 

 

 

 

The Dire Consequences of Lust submitted by RASA VON WERDER, GURURASA

WWW.WOMANTHOUARTGOD.COM

 

The Angelic Doctor, St. Thomas Aquinas, said lust causes blindness

of the mind. Thus came the joke about masturbation, " Dad, can I just

do it till I need glasses? " In this month of May, the month of Mary

and my 27th year of celibacy which She graced me with, and for the

sake of a new friend, " Harvey Erickson, " I tackle lust once again.

 

Why is lust so bad? Isn't sex a normal, natural urge, and isn't

repressing what is natural going to cause grief? Is sex really a

terrible sin, the sixth of the ten commandments, which will bring

the wrath of God upon us unless experienced only as the Church

prescribes? Where is the sanity here? Sex good - sex bad. There are

two sides to the argument. On one, only sex in marriage is good, and

then, the Holy Father added, you're not even supposed to have lust.

On the other side, there are swingers and hedonists who say if it

feels good, do it. There is a righteous argument that the

proscriptions against sex were made my men only to control women -

hence the double standard.

 

While it may be true that most of the brauha against sex is to

control women, there is another esoteric argument, and that is the

one we will mostly address here: Is sex in any way damaging to the

pursuit of God? That is to say, does sex in any way obscure, delay,

circumvent or in any way mess up the path toward self realization?

Can I still attain God and sainthood without being celibate? Can I

reach the highest levels of Nirvana, Samadhi, Holiness and Bliss,

while maintaining a sex life? When is it ok, when is it not ok, in

the pursuit of ecstasy with God? Ah, there's the rub! That is what

young souls straining for holiness are scratching their heads about.

 

When I began the pursuit of God with all my strength, it was around

1967. I hadn't the foggiest idea if sex was a sin or not, but I

feared it because of being Catholic. This is drummed into our heads

from the age of Catechism - for me six years old - that we mustn't

have " dirty " thoughts. (I must't think this but I am...what of the

kids who are being molested by Dads, Uncles, Grandpa's and sundry

others, like priests? The 50% girls and 25% boys as statistics show?

How could they avoid dirty thoughts when being molested?) My dirty

thoughts developed soon. You carry this all your life as a Catholic,

as it is solidly entrenched in your brain like a tatoo.

 

Even though I have practiced celibacy for many years and have

certainly pursued and attained God quite well, I still cannot answer

every question glibly. I can pose to you what I know and what I

believe, and you draw your own conclusions. Now, not knowing if sex

was a sin or not, I decided the safest route was to avoid it and end

it if possible. Easier said than done. Around that time, I tried to

practice celibacy. Men disagreed with me. One in particular, who was

my " yoga guru " of sorts, insisted I do it with him or he would not

teach it to me! There went celibacy. But it was a task, not a

pleasure for those two years or so while " learning " yoga. I did not

learn yoga from him - but in his own con- man way, he got me

started. I left him and continued the pursuit of yoga, which at

times meant eight hours a day of exercises, which I invented myself

through books - whatever I could find. In those years I turned my

back on Catholicism, which I'd one day get back to. To cut to the

chase, it took me eleven years of trying - 1967 to 1978 - before

Holy Mary appeared to me and suggested I take the vow. This meant

that I was ready for the vow, ready to take it and keep it, or else

She would not have appeared to me. I thought about it for five days

and on that fateful day of May 27, 1978, I took the vow on my knees

to Her. She gave me the grace to keep it. In 1990 God spoke to me

from within and said that if I wanted to quit celibacy, I could. I

chose not to. For a while I thought about it but noticed that

anxiety was on the rise. The sex hounds were gathering around me as

I pondered. I was getting more and more uncomfortable and decided

that celibacy was something I wanted much more than involvement with

sex. And there I stayed. Even through my twelve-year engagement to

Richard, and our two year marriage, we never had sex. And that

suited him as well as myself, because he feared God.

 

Now I will channel Holy Mary and will ask Her pertinent questions

about sex, as She is my mentor in that department. I feel She will

especially speak to me today as it is Mother's Day, May 8, 2005.

 

Rasa: Mother, can a soul who seeks the highest union with God, which

in the east is called Enlightenment, and in the West Sainthood and

Contemplation, continue a life of sex?

 

MOTHER MARY: ALTHOUGH IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE, THE SOUL WHICH MAINTAINS

ANY ATTACHMENTS TO THIS EARTH IN TERMS OF DESIRES WILL FIND IT MORE

AND MORE DIFFICULT TO ATTAIN NIRVANA.

 

Rasa: OK. I hear you. When is it not impossible? In what case can a

soul still do sex and also attain highest union with God?

 

MOTHER MARY: WHEN A SOUL IS HEADED FOR TOTAL AND PERFECT UNION WITH

GOD, SUCH AS YOU HAD IN LATE 1981 AND 1982, IT CEASES TO WANT

ANYTHING ELSE BUT GOD. IN SUCH A CASE, SEX MAY BE FORCED ON THE

PERSON EVEN THOUGH SHE OR HE DOESN'T WANT IT. FOR INSTANCE, IF ONE

IS MARRIED OR SEX IS PART OF THEIR PROFESSION, OR SOMEONE FORCES

THEM TO PERFORM AND THEY HAVE TO AGREE FOR SURVIVAL. THEN IT IS NOT

THE THING ONE WANTS OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL, AND IT IS A PENANCE, NOT

A PLEASURE. WHEN YOU COME THAT CLOSE TO GOD, ALL THE DESIRES OF THE

FLESH AND THE WORLD MUST CEASE AND THEY DO CEASE, OTHERWISE, THE

VISION WILL NOT HAPPEN.

 

Rasa: That seems pretty clear to me. In the final stages, the

definition of Union With God or Perfect Oneness with God

automatically removes, casts out and obliterates all desires not of

God. Is that correct?

 

MOTHER MARY: That is correct. To attain this kind of Union is so

difficult, such a miracle, that you could not do the one without the

other - you could not have the miracle without all other desires

ceasing.

 

Rasa: I think you have made it clear. Now what about the aftermath

of the Vision of God? What happens to celibacy then? Many people

begin to lose it as the Vision of God fades away. Celibacy is best

practiced during times of strong grace and Light, but afterward,

human nature sets in. What does one do with the body then?

 

MOTHER MARY: You must always understand that you get closer to God

all your life. The Absolute Vision of God as you saw in 1982 only

increases. You will see more of God if you persist and insist on

keeping Holy throughout your life. Your personal sanctity - which is

keeping yourself spotless and pure for the love of God - will draw

you to higher and higher reaches of God. Your vision will go up and

down, increase and decrease, but always moving toward better,

clearer, closer vision in the end. If you degenerate and give in to

the flesh, then that curtails the vision which continues. There is

not one vision and it is over. You saw God face to face, but you

intend to see God again and although you cannot imagine seeing any

more, there is always more. I will prove this to you. Do you not

know that there are many mansions and untold trillions of souls in

Heaven? Each one is perfectly happy and each sees God face to face.

Yet each sees according to her/his merits, do they not? Therefore,

that proves there is no final vision. One soul seeing God face to

face sees one vision, but a higher soul sees more of God face to

face, and so on. The next time you see God face to face you will see

more.

 

Rasa: Mother, I think you are clearing up my understanding now. I

had been thinking of Swamis and others who had Enlightenment, and

then, they deteriorated into tantric sex. I was thinking sort of,

what's the difference? They saw God and that was it? Why not have a

little fun?

 

MOTHER MARY: THESE SWAMIS AND OTHERS PAY FOR THAT FUN. FIRST, THEY

MUST BE CLEANSED IN PURGATORY. AND SECOND, THEIR ETERNAL REWARD WILL

NOT BE AS GREAT AS IF THEY RESTRAINED THEMSELVES.

 

Rasa: Then restraint is important. Even when one has suffered all

their life and repressed sex, they must continue to do so. They

should not give in to temptation when they find they are in a place

of much availability. This will be marked against them. This is sin,

this is failing the great holiness they are called to. This is a

failure of a great test. Is that correct?

 

MOTHER MARY: YOU HAVE TO CONTINUE YOUR SADHANA AND DISCIPLINE ALL

YOUR LIFE, NO MATTER HOW DIFFICULT. TO THINK YOU HAVE DONE IT ALL

AND IT IS OK TO RELAX IS NOT RIGHT. HOLINESS EXACTS A GREAT PRICE.

SEEING GOD ONCE, FACE TO FACE, OR IN THE VISION OF ENLIGHTENMENT, IS

ONLY THE BEGINNING. FOR PEOPLE TO THINK, LIKE ONE OF YOUR GURUS,

THAT THAT IS IT AND NO MORE IS POSSIBLE, IS FOOLISH THOUGHT. EVER

MORE AND MORE IS POSSIBLE AND PROBABLE, IF YOU WILL MAINTAIN YOUR

SADHANA AND DISCIPLINE FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. THOSE HOLY SOULS

WHO FALL DOWN WILL PAY DEARLY FOR THEIR FALLS, IF THEY DO IT

DELIBERATELY.

 

Rasa: Mother Dearest, this is the first time I am a guru with

devotees. I am wondering if I should ask them to be celibate, or at

least try. What should I tell them?

 

MOTHER MARY: TELL THEM THAT IF THEY WANT THE FINAL VISION AND TO

REACH THE HEIGHTS, THIS IS SOMETHING THEY MUST DO. OR ELSE, THE

CHANCES OR NILL THEY WILL GET THERE. IF THEY WANT IT BADLY ENOUGH,

THEY WILL DO IT.

 

Rasa: Some of these souls are fairly young, like 35. What does a 35-

year-old male do about sex, who also wants Enlightenment?

 

MOTHER MARY: REMEMBER, MY DAUGHTER, THAT YOU WERE IN YOUR EARLY

TWENTIES WHEN YOU BEGAN TO STRUGGLE AGAINST SEX. SURELY, A MAN IN

HIS THIRTIES COULD DO THE SAME. IT ISN'T GOING TO KILL HIM. PEOPLE

MAKE TOO MUCH OF IT. IT IS A GREAT SACRIFICE IF YOU ARE SO USED TO

IT. BUT AFTER YOU GIVE IT UP YOU REALIZE HOW UNIMPORTANT IT IS AND

HOW MUCH GOOD COMES FROM NOT HAVING LUST. THEY SHOULD TRY AND

PRACTICE CELIBACY FOR LONGER LENGTHS OF TIME UNTIL IT LETS GO OF

THEIR MIND.

 

Rasa: I am really glad you said that. I suppose I should ask each

devotee what their goal is. Do they want to reach Enlightenment and

seeing God face to face? I should ask them. What if they give me

that old chestnut, " Can I just do it till I need glasses? " In other

words, they want it halfway. They want to see God, but perhaps not

face to face. They want an intermediate vision of God and they want

to hold onto sex. What then?

 

MOTHER MARY: YOU SHOULD NOT BOTHER WITH MEN OR WOMEN LIKE THAT.

HONESTLY, THEY WILL BRING YOU GRIEF. THEY CANNOT ENTER THE INNER

CIRCLE OF DISCIPLES. ANYONE WHO WANTS GOD IN HALFWAY MEASURES,

HOLDING ONTO THE FLESH AND THE WORLD, SHOULD STAY OUTSIDE THE INNER

SANCTUM, AND SHOULD NOT HAVE DAILY ACCESS TO YOU. YOU HAVE SUFFERED

TOO MUCH TO HAVE PEOPLE LIKE THAT NEAR YOU. LIFE IS HARD ENOUGH AS

IT IS. I KNOW SOME WILL FALL AWAY BECAUSE OF THAT, BUT THEY WILL

HURT YOU IN THE END. MAKE SURE THEY UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT ABOUT

WORSHIPPING YOUR BODY, BUT ONLY ABOUT FINDING GOD INSIDE THEIR OWN

SOULS. GET RID OF THE MEN WHO THINK IN TERMS OF YOUR BODY OR THEIR

BODY, OR SEX.

 

YOU HAVE NOT COME SO FAR TO WASTE YOUR TIME WITH THESE MEN. THINK OF

RAMAKRISHNA AND HOW SERIOUS HIS BAND OF MEN WERE. THEY WERE ALL

CELIBATES, OR TRIED TO BE.

 

Rasa: Mother, lately I have been talking with someone a lot about a

Swami who I call " Muktup " who got involved with tantric sex at the

end of his life. He was doing sex to a lot of young women in the

ashram. What do you think of this and what do you say about tantric

sex, which is now like a fad in America.

 

MOTHER MARY: ANYONE WHO HOLDS HIMSELF UP AS A GREAT SWAMI AND GREAT

PERFECTED SOUL AND THEN ABUSES THAT PRIVILEGE BY HAVING SEX WITH

THOSE WHO CAME TO HIM SEEKING ENLIGHTENMENT, THAT MAN WILL PAY FOR

HIS SINS BEFORE GOD. AND THE FUN HE THINKS HE HAD WILL NOT BE WORTH

IT. ADVISE ALL THESE MEN TO GIVE UP THEIR LUSTFUL THOUGHTS AND

DESIRES, AND SACRIFICE FOR THE

 

KINGDOM OF GOD. THEY NEED EXORCISM, AS THIS IS THE WORK OF SATAN,

CONTROLLING THEIR MINDS. ABOUT TANTRIC SEX IT IS ONCE AGAIN, SATAN

USING THE FLESH FOR SEX GAMES, AND MIXING SEX INTO RELIGION. IT

ISN'T HOLY AT ALL AND CANNOT BECOME HOLY, NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE

THINKS. HOLD YOUR LINE ON THIS ONE. LET NO ONE DETER YOU ON HOW EVIL

IT IS. ADVISE ALL YOUR ADHERENTS TO STAY AWAY FROM THIS.

 

Rasa: It seems quite clear to me that there are no halfway measures

when it comes to Union with God and the Vision of God. Do you have

any advise for those who are married or to those who feel they

simply cannot quit having sex? What can they hope for in the Kingdom

of God?

 

MOTHER MARY: CELIBACY IS FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO BE HOLY. MARRIED

PEOPLE CAN STOP HAVING SEX AND TURN THEIR HOME INTO A MONASTERY. AS

FOR THOSE WHO WANT GOD IN HALFWAY MEASURES, THEY WILL RECEIVE IN

HALFWAY MEASURES. THE MORE YOU GIVE UP FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD, THE

MORE GRACE YOU ARE ABLE TO RECEIVE. GOD CANNOT FILL A SOUL THAT IS

STUFFED WITH DESIRES AND ATTACHMENTS. EMPTY YOURSELF, AND GOD WILL

FILL YOU UP.

 

Rasa: Can you explain exactly how, Mother, lust and attachments

deter the soul from the Vision of God?

 

MOTHER MARY: AS I SAID BEFORE, TO SEE GOD WHILE IN THE FLESH IS

NOTHING SHORT OF A MIRACLE. IT IS THE GLORY OF GOD. YOU CANNOT

ATTAIN THE GLORY OF GOD UNLESS YOU GIVE UP ALL TERRESTRIAL THINGS

FOR THE SAKE OF GOD.

 

Rasa: Amen, Mother. Happy Mother's Day!

 

MOTHER MARY: I THANK ALL MY CHILDREN!

 

WRITTEN BY RASA VON WERDER MOTHER'S DAY, MAY 8, 2005