On having an open transparent society...

[Guest guest]

Violet wrote: " Outward happenings occur in organizations. It is the

inward

happenings of the internal global collective consciousness within

that is the Real Happening. We can use these outward dramas, witness

them, and turn ever deeper within ourselves and experience the Utter

Silence Within, where the Adi Shakti resides in Her Real Form, not

Her 'Mahamaya' Form. "

 

Dear Violet,

Outward happenings do occur in organisations, and these happenings

have to be faced up to, and answered to. It is important, how people

are affected by these things. Unpleasant events cannot be

disregarded and covered up. Wherever people try to organise,control

and subdue people's individual rights of expression and discussion,

there will be problems experienced. Spirituality is something that

each individual experiences in a different, personal way, and

everyone has a right to be listened to.

We have to face up to the fact that Shri Mataji has set up the SY

organisation in the way that She has wanted, and that this is not

something that can be changed by us. The SY organisation will remain

officially a centre offering a meditation technique for stress

release and relaxation, as is advertised on the official websites

and pamphlets handed out by its promoters. Having carefully

considered this for some time, I am no longer prepared to be part of

an organisation that practises deception and double standards.

Love and best wishes, Semira

 

Why the Fundamentalist Approach to Religion Must Be Wrong.

Excerpt from above essay by Scott Bidstrup:

Why Fundamentalism Contradicts The Intent Of Founding Prophets.

 

The purpose of religion is to teach love, both for self and for

others. Indeed, living in the state of self-love is " the kingdom of

heaven " that Jesus and other founding prophets talked about

being " within you. "

When one has self-love and self-respect, one respects others,

because one sees reflected in others the empathy, compassion and

love one sees in oneself. It is this insight that the founding

prophets of all major religions have tried to convey to their

followers. It is arriving at the point of living this ideal that has

been, from the beginning of time, the goal of the sincere seeker and

the true, undefiled religion.

 

Achieving this self-love, however, can be difficult. It requires

self-examination, which at times can be intensely painful. Not

everyone is up to that kind of self-discipline.

 

A religious leader seeking to fill the pews with contributing

churchgoers at some level has to know this. Yet he must fill the

pews to keep the lights on, the furnace running and the maintenance

paid.

 

The temptation is there to do what will fill the pews. And filling

the pews can be really much easier, if all you feel you have to do

is make the worshipper feel good about being there.

 

If making the worshipper feel good is all you're after, and you

don't care how you do it, the easiest way to do it is to assure him

his prejudices are approved by God. Make him feel that he doesn't

have to change because he's already arrived at salvation, or, as in

the case of the Christian doctrine of redemption, someone else has

agreed to pay for his mistakes, or you or God can make the changes

for him, and you have a loyal church member. It's, oh, so much

easier than telling him he has to work on himself!

 

Yet the founding prophets never did such things. Jesus Christ and

Ghatama Buddha and the prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h) and many others

all knew of the fallacy of such an approach and did not advocate it.

They were totally honest with themselves and their followers, that

salvation requires personal effort and sacrifice.

 

Those who sincerely seek spiritual growth intuitively know this.

This is why sincere followers are attracted to the words of the

founding prophets like bees are drawn to nectar laden flowers. The

sincere seeker already knows he is going to have to work on himself,

and is looking for the best method by which to do it. As he seeks

that path, and he finds his personal insights match those of the

prophet, the seeker is drawn to the prophet's wisdom.

 

Unfortunately, for every sincere seeker, there are a thousand people

driven to religion by fear, guilt and shame. These negative emotions

are then played upon by religionists who seek to fill the pews with

compliant, profitable members. It is my contention that many, if not

most fundamentalist organizations have fallen into this trap.

http://www.bidstrup.com.htm

[Guest guest]

Dear Semira,

 

i remember Shri Mataji saying in a very matter-of-fact way that if

SY do not do the right thing and spread Her Divine Message, that She

has devotees that will do so from without the organization. i was

actually quite astounded at hearing this, because i couldn't believe

that this very thing could actually happen in Sahaja Yoga.

 

She also said that unlike what has happened to the Truth that other

Incarnations gave, this time the Truth would come out.

 

Shri Mataji has told us many times that this is a Divine Drama and a

Divine Play that is happening and we have to let the Divine work

things out. There is more to this than meets the eye. It is the

first generation of a Divine Incarnation. Remember, Christianity

too, had very humble beginnings, but look at the numbers today.

Shri Mataji gives everyone enough liberty till it reaches its

natural conclusion and if they end up doing the wrong thing they

themselves are finished.

 

There are many yogis/yoginis, beautiful people who can give self-

realization to people. They may not understand the Divine Message in

its entirety, however, they are doing the best that they know.

We do not want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Shri Mataji has promised that She will work things out; we each just

have to be true to ourselves and assume the roles that we are meant

to play in this Divine Drama.

 

 

Love from Violet

 

 

 

, " semirafields "

<semirafields> wrote:

> Violet wrote: " Outward happenings occur in organizations. It is the

> inward

> happenings of the internal global collective consciousness within

> that is the Real Happening. We can use these outward dramas,

witness

> them, and turn ever deeper within ourselves and experience the

Utter

> Silence Within, where the Adi Shakti resides in Her Real Form, not

> Her 'Mahamaya' Form. "

>

> Dear Violet,

> Outward happenings do occur in organisations, and these happenings

> have to be faced up to, and answered to. It is important, how

people

> are affected by these things. Unpleasant events cannot be

> disregarded and covered up. Wherever people try to

organise,control

> and subdue people's individual rights of expression and

discussion,

> there will be problems experienced. Spirituality is something that

> each individual experiences in a different, personal way, and

> everyone has a right to be listened to.

> We have to face up to the fact that Shri Mataji has set up the SY

> organisation in the way that She has wanted, and that this is not

> something that can be changed by us. The SY organisation will

remain

> officially a centre offering a meditation technique for stress

> release and relaxation, as is advertised on the official websites

> and pamphlets handed out by its promoters. Having carefully

> considered this for some time, I am no longer prepared to be part

of

> an organisation that practises deception and double standards.

> Love and best wishes, Semira

>

> Why the Fundamentalist Approach to Religion Must Be Wrong.

> Excerpt from above essay by Scott Bidstrup:

> Why Fundamentalism Contradicts The Intent Of Founding Prophets.

>

> The purpose of religion is to teach love, both for self and for

> others. Indeed, living in the state of self-love is " the kingdom

of

> heaven " that Jesus and other founding prophets talked about

> being " within you. "

> When one has self-love and self-respect, one respects others,

> because one sees reflected in others the empathy, compassion and

> love one sees in oneself. It is this insight that the founding

> prophets of all major religions have tried to convey to their

> followers. It is arriving at the point of living this ideal that

has

> been, from the beginning of time, the goal of the sincere seeker

and

> the true, undefiled religion.

>

> Achieving this self-love, however, can be difficult. It requires

> self-examination, which at times can be intensely painful. Not

> everyone is up to that kind of self-discipline.

>

> A religious leader seeking to fill the pews with contributing

> churchgoers at some level has to know this. Yet he must fill the

> pews to keep the lights on, the furnace running and the

maintenance

> paid.

>

> The temptation is there to do what will fill the pews. And filling

> the pews can be really much easier, if all you feel you have to do

> is make the worshipper feel good about being there.

>

> If making the worshipper feel good is all you're after, and you

> don't care how you do it, the easiest way to do it is to assure

him

> his prejudices are approved by God. Make him feel that he doesn't

> have to change because he's already arrived at salvation, or, as

in

> the case of the Christian doctrine of redemption, someone else has

> agreed to pay for his mistakes, or you or God can make the changes

> for him, and you have a loyal church member. It's, oh, so much

> easier than telling him he has to work on himself!

>

> Yet the founding prophets never did such things. Jesus Christ and

> Ghatama Buddha and the prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h) and many others

> all knew of the fallacy of such an approach and did not advocate

it.

> They were totally honest with themselves and their followers, that

> salvation requires personal effort and sacrifice.

>

> Those who sincerely seek spiritual growth intuitively know this.

> This is why sincere followers are attracted to the words of the

> founding prophets like bees are drawn to nectar laden flowers. The

> sincere seeker already knows he is going to have to work on

himself,

> and is looking for the best method by which to do it. As he seeks

> that path, and he finds his personal insights match those of the

> prophet, the seeker is drawn to the prophet's wisdom.

>

> Unfortunately, for every sincere seeker, there are a thousand

people

> driven to religion by fear, guilt and shame. These negative

emotions

> are then played upon by religionists who seek to fill the pews

with

> compliant, profitable members. It is my contention that many, if

not

> most fundamentalist organizations have fallen into this trap.

> http://www.bidstrup.com.htm

[Guest guest]

Dear Violet,

I think that everyone should read the following excerpt, and

consider what is being said here.

Love, Semira

Excerpt from speech:25.3.81 Darshan at Ashram Part 2, Shri Mataji

Nirmala Devi

 

" You have to put me in your heart and I am there, got to put me there

- - then only if you are insincere you can never progress, there's no

doubt.

With all humility I must say that. What to do?

This is what it is, that's what Christ has said, " Anything against me

will be forgiven but against the Holy Ghost will not " .

You can tell them like this, that in Indian scriptures it's written,

it is only the Holy Ghost who can awaken Kundalini like this en-

mass.

Only with Her Sankalpa even if She thinks and desires it can work

out.

Even by her Kataksha with Her one glance She can do it, you see this

is Kataksha. Even without any Sankalpa, even in Her presence it

happens

and that's what it is.

So you should say " She is the Holy Ghost " you see, you have to find

out

about Holy Ghost. There's nothing about Holy Ghost in the Bible -

what

is it? They don't know what is Holy Ghost they say it's a bird, it's

all imagination.

QUESTION: Mother do you feel that it's alright to tell people who you

are immediately now.

MOTHER: No. You see you must tell like this, if it comes to that. If

you tell them that (now see they'll say it's very difficult)

then: " There

is something about Mother you should find out, what She is. I found

it

out what She is. You have to read some other books to find out, you

can

find out by putting your hands towards her " . You see they ask such a

question.

QUESTION: Mother a lot of these people that will be coming tomorrow

have

a lot of knowledge they have gathered through their seeking and they

may try and lure us onto their grounds.

MOTHER: You should say very simple thing that " You didn't get your

self

realisation with this, you did not. So forget it what ever it is.

We've

got our Realisation. How do we say?

Because we can tell about our own chakras, tell about your chakras.

Can

you tell about us? You cannot. With all that knowledge, forget it.

WARREN: One thing that is being implied here is we find a lot of

people

come in with their own little '-ism' or their own little idea and

they

try to tell us what we should believe.

MOTHER: No you listen to them you say we have listened to all this,

we've

gone through all this and we have had enough of it and I will not

move

but I've got out of it because it doesn't give you anything.

" Only through Sahaja Yoga, I found you see, that I could feel my own

chakras and chakras of others. There's no other way out. I want all

these

things myself. " That's the best way to tell them. You say " I don't

want

to argue, but only one simple thing I want to ask you. " I mean don't

allow them to sit on your head, also that's not the way, otherwise,

you

have not delivered the goods.

We have to deliver the goods that's the main point. Is not our

showing

our humility there, we are not there to have a show of humility, we

have

to deliver the goods. I told you the tricks of the trade here. Now

supposing

they come out with them, you should say " Now this all I have read, I

know all this and no use going into it. Only thing I will ask you,

one

thing, what did you get? Can you feel my chakras? Can you say whether

my chakras are caught up? But I can tell about you, about many

others,

and we always say the same thing.

So that's how you stop them, but you must deliver the goods. The main

thing is don't have just a show of your humility and apologies and

all

that. No, No, not that. But you must deliver the goods, you must put

this into their brains otherwise what's the use? All this show, is

for

what? For getting more in your net of love.

QUESTION: Mother if they ask you questions and you're not confident

of

the answers you might give?

MOTHER: Then you better send them over to me, to Mother, you see.

What

sort of questions they can ask, you see just put your attention when

you sit down and another thing is don't give yourself bandhans and

all

that in their presence, like this you don't do it. Nothing of the

kind,

sit very dignified. These things upset people, new people very much.

Just talk to them, as professors do to students, just like that.

QUESTION: When they ask questions, Mother about the various deities

and

I'm not really very familiar with them, I mean who Vishnumaya is and

all that, so then if they really want to know, do we send them over

to

you?

SAHAJA YOGI: Another Sahaja Yogi can answer that.

MOTHER: That's alright, that's alright, you should just say that in

thing

you can see it, without having the books with you. You see the chart,

moreover you should say, " not so important just now, gradually you

will

know everything about it " .

The whole knowledge is given to us by Mother free of charge,

everything,

and you can tally it, you can verify it. You can verify it, you can

see the Kundalini pulsating, you can verify it, you have to insist on

this point. This is a living process.

You get to see Kundalini rising, you see in many people the Kundalini

rising and that you see that people start feeling this cool breeze.

This

is the living process there is no doubt about it. These others are

just

arguments and concepts which are dead. But this is a living process.

QUESTION: Giving bandhans and similar things will be one of the

things

we'll be teaching them. Is that correct?

MOTHER: You should teach them later on, not in the beginning. If they

ask for it or something, you see this can be done later when they

come

to us, or ask for it. Better is to be very discreet.

QUESTION: Some people ask " What do you do a Sahaja Yoga Centre? "

MOTHER: Should say that we have:

One is collective meditation, where we sit down and meditate and be

thoughtlessly

aware.

And vibrations.

We put on Mothers tapes and listen to it and understand what She has

to say because She has talked about all the chakras. There are 300

tapes

like that, every tape gives so much knowledge about ourselves.

Because

now we have got the power, but we must learn how to manoeuvre it how

to take it round.

Like once you have got the electricity then you have to know how to

use

it. What to do about it, all these things we work it out, learn and

master

it.

And you don't pay anything for it.

And then we sing songs and things and enjoy ourselves.

And when you come closer and closer to us we will let you know what

we

do.

Because there are certain things, we do not tell to people, because

if

you tell them, they can't bear the truth about Mother, then you find

out about Mother and who She is. What is Her incarnation and what is

She doing. You come there gradually because you should be able to

bear

the truth.

You see where as people could not bear the truth, what Christ was,

and

crucified him, but now you are going to crucify yourself if you can't

bear the truth, not Mother. Is other way round, alright.

MOTHER: Firstly, I'll make them thoughtless so they won't ask anyone

questions.

MOTHER: The little bees (Laugh). I'll make your task very simple

(laughter).

But you give a good presentation, that's all.

WARREN: Publicity dept.

MOTHER: That's a big joke, eh, publicity dept.

WARREN: Look good and leave it to Mother.

MOTHER: Better smiling also, never laugh. You know, you people laugh

in my presence, but if you otherwise laugh, at others, you see, they

feel very misled.

Don't laugh at them. They should not get a feeling there is an

understanding

between you making a joke of them. That's another thing can work out,

that someone will come with an inferiority complex. You see, there

are

some people who suffer from a feeling that " Everyone is smiling at

me,

and they are laughing at me, they are making fun, " sort of people

like

that, so just learn to be nice to them, be concerned with them and

don't

laugh at them at all, or at anything, don't laugh too much, because

this

laughing can be misunderstood at that level, alright?

I think laughing should be avoided as far as possible if you just see

happiness and all that and sometimes, at the sky you can see and

laugh,

but not make fun of them in any way which is sadistic.

Please see to that; that also happened very common in England. Many

people

ran away because of that, you see, they ran away more because of

Sahaja

Yogis than because of Sahaja Yoga. This is a new arrangement for you,

suddenly you have to be Public Relations Officer.

QUESTION: Mother, when I have been reading about the Indian epics,

something

that's puzzled me is that sometimes, " Asuras " can perform " tapas " to

a deity and gain powers which they then use for evil purposes.

MOTHER: That's what Sahaja Yogis do also and then they have a fall.

You

see, God is a very simple being. At the slightest ...

QUESTION: Mother, some people that you talk to, and explain to them

the

collective consciousness and the way you become connected, if they

are

following some doctrine of their own before Sahaja Yoga, and they

accept

what you say to a degree, but they don't fully accept, should we be

persistent

with them over a few days, to help them?

MOTHER: The proof of the pudding will be the eating. Put their

attention

to their chakras. If there is no cool breeze coming, then it is a

very

good chance for you to say something. If you find that there are some

centres, you should say " Are you doubting? Don't doubt " , and find

that

catch.

You see, that's how on the chakras, if you talk in relation to

chakras,

they will not know. Because everybody wants chakras to be cleared

out.

You see, how this knowledge has come, when I went to America, they

got

all these things about chakras and vibrations. The word " vibration "

started

through that. Imagine! They did not know a word about it and

Kundalini

and everything, then Muktananda took a cue from there and started

talking

about it. They never talked about it.

QUESTION: And even though You didn't spread it directly, it got

spread

all over the world, anyway.

MOTHER: And now I knew that, that later on they would come to Me

alone

because none of them can do it. I was so confident, and people said,

" You should have a patent. You shouldn't allow anybody to use the

tapes

for it, they should not tape You or anything. "

I said, " Let it be, doesn't matter. They are doing free

advertisement,

why not do it? " They started this twice born, all these things

started

with that, born again, and they never thought of it.

QUESTION: Mother, somebody asked me last night if it would be

dangerous

for them to come and get their Realisation and then leave it. After

they

are Realised is it dangerous to leave it to them?

MOTHER: As you say, it would be like asking if it was raining

outside,

would it be dangerous to be inside the room. You see? There isn't ...

if you are inside the room you enjoy the protection of the room. If

you

are outside you get all the problems there. There is nothing

dangerous,

you go ahead whatever way you like.

But then you feel more getting out, because what happens is that you

have felt the security and the beauty of yourself and to be without

it

you feel bad. "

[Guest guest]

, " semirafields "

<semirafields> wrote:

> Dear Violet,

> I think that everyone should read the following excerpt, and

> consider what is being said here.

> Love, Semira

> Excerpt from speech:25.3.81 Darshan at Ashram Part 2, Shri Mataji

> Nirmala Devi

>

> " You have to put me in your heart and I am there, got to put me

> there - - then only if you are insincere you can never progress,

> there's no doubt. With all humility I must say that. What to do?

> This is what it is, that's what Christ has said, " Anything against

> me will be forgiven but against the Holy Ghost will not " .

>

 

Dear Semira,

 

i have no idea what you mean by " consider what is being said here " .

You have to quote the particular words/sentences instead of the

entire talk. Thanks.

 

regards,

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

, " semirafields "

<semirafields> wrote:

 

> We have to face up to the fact that Shri Mataji has set up the SY

> organisation in the way that She has wanted, and that this is not

> something that can be changed by us. The SY organisation will remain

> officially a centre offering a meditation technique for stress

> release and relaxation, as is advertised on the official websites

> and pamphlets handed out by its promoters. Having carefully

> considered this for some time, I am no longer prepared to be part of

> an organisation that practises deception and double standards.

>

> Love and best wishes, Semira

>

 

Dear Semira,

 

Shri Mataji _never_ set up the SY organization as it is today. Leaders

posting envelopes are just part and parcel of the Post Office. Only

fools look up to them for guidance instead of Shri Mataji. i have to

admit there are many fools who have little discretion and wisdom to

understand that Shri Mataji came only to deliver the Divine Message.

The rest - self-realization, chakras, catches, treatments - are part

and parcel of this Divine Message.

 

But those leaders who carry and post the letters have assumed a far

greater role for themselves. Knowing that many of the recipients are

blind, these postmen assumed the unauthorized responsibility of

reading the letters to these illiterate fools. Not being able to

explain the deep truth of the Divine Message themselves these

embarrassed but egoistic postmen interpreted it according to the level

of their ignorance. (i too was unfortunate enough to listen to them in

the beginning).

 

Over the decades the Divine Message has been mutilated beyond

recognition. Not only that but all the blind have gossiped and

murmured to each other and new seekers, making each as ignorant as

other. That is the situation today where those new seekers, reminded

by this forum as to the truth of the Divine Message, are appalled at

the dishonesty at the local post office. They want to quit such

deceitful organization in protest.

 

i too quit the local post office years ago as my conscience could not

compromise with the lack of integrity in the organization. But i did

not abandon the Divine Message as i knew how powerful postmen were

clandestinely subverting the rules and regulations of the Post Office.

However, ever since the adevnt of the internet i found out that their

monopoly over the transfer and interpretation of messages and

instructions was finally over.

 

So if you want to stamp out institutionalized corruption it is

imperative you either be prepared to leave the organization, or

meditate deeply to understand that it is actually all a myth, a

mirage. If you do not understand what I am trying to say then the

postmen will always read and interpret the letters for you.

 

 

and these postmen will always ring more than twice,

 

 

jagbir