What's wrong with those claiming themselves to be St. Joseph and Rama?

[Guest guest]

, Ofiel Chishty

<himavanti> wrote:

>

> Devilish, Asuric people, always change and " correct " teachings and

> paractices given them by their masters. And based upon received

> practices devilish souls create their own, special rituals and

> mantras even, with unknown meaning and so on. Some of these people

> are so called spiritual mental ill like schisophrenic oriented

> toward God. Asuric people, devil one have such states because

> touch with divine energy empowerd their stupidness and mixation of

> their minds, which are potentialy ill. This is well known, not

> only in spiritual, religious psychology but from even Shiva

> Puranas and another such old stories.

>

> And this is only one medicine for daemons, devil asuras, pretas,

> pishachas.. Not to give them spiritual practices, which should be

> kept more in secret and not so easily available. Such people are

> not enlightment, but blinded through the Divine Real Light, and

> confused, and they misguide many people into false pracices

> leading to degradation of the soul..

>

> Oh, it is very long subject to write, but I give only these very

> few words:)))

>

> Mohan

>

 

Hi Mohan,

 

We had a character who claimed himself to be almost God. This

happened during 1985/6 in UK where he lived.

 

After gathering his Sahaja Yogi friends together he told them that

he was a reincarnation of Saint Joseph of Arimathea, reputably Shri

Jesus uncle who provided the burial sheet that enclosed Jesus's

bloody corpse.

 

He started boasting that he was the first guardian of the Holy

Grail, the Holy Cup that had contained the blood of Jesus

consecrated at the Last Supper or dripping from his crucified body.

He then proceeded to build a powerful Sect within Sahaja Yoga to

fulfill his perceived destiny on Earth to destroy evil in the name

of God Almighty.

 

In what he later dismissed as The Madness, Simon became so crazy

that his Saint Joseph incarnation mutated into something far more

powerful and All Mighty. Simon started to believe that he was a

reincarnation of Lord Rama of the famous Ramayana.

 

To cut a long story short he was told to leave by Shri Mataji.

 

i am just writing this to ask what you think of such personalities?

What makes them think and behave that way? Has it got anything to do

with their previous adharmic lives? What's wrong with those who

first claim themselves to be Joseph and then self-promote themselves

to be even more divine i.e., Shri Rama? Any information about these

type of twisted personalities would be welcome.

 

regards,

 

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

Dear Jagbir,

Here is an interesting link on the very complex subject of what is

the difference between the psychotic and psychic.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers22.html

Below is a small excerpt from the webpage. I think there is much yet

to understand about these issues, and further insight to be gained.

I especially found the following sentence to be close to the truth

of these issues; " We also know from near-death accounts, the Bible,

and dream research that there is evidence that dreams, near-death

experiences, psychedelic, psychotic, and psychic experiences are all

a phenomenon of an altered level of consciousness. " The only thing

can can be stated with certainty is that people are able to have

these kind of experiences due to an altered level of consciousness,

and that not all people are open to this state. People are afraid of

altered levels of consciousness, and so they condemn, try to

rationalise and reject.

Another significant section in considering your question

is : " People who hear voices and see things that aren't there can be

classified into two groups. The first group are people who cannot

cope with these voices and are called mentally ill. The second group

are people who can cope with the voices and are called psychic. It

is my personal belief that being psychic and being psychotic are the

same thing depending upon how you cope with it. Society in general

regards people who talk to God as holy. But society in general

regards people whom God talks to as insane. "

For some people possibly, the experiences are simply too

overwhelming and fear and conditioning may cause resistance and

block or alter understanding of these things. In these experiences,

all known boundaries are left behind. These experiences should never

be used to manipulate, harm or to control others; and this is where

things can go wrong for some people, and reveal the state of purity

or otherwise of the individual. Some people may abuse their

experiences to gain power of others, as opposed to those who share

simply that others may enjoy, and be comforted. Society is terrified

of the unknown, and has always been, and is conditioned to label and

to try to classify everything according to the present limits of

understanding and research.

Warmest regards, Semira

 

 

 

The Dreaming God

 

Herman H. Somers has a Ph.D. in psychology and was a Jesuit priest

for forty years. He wrote the book entitled When God Slept, Man

Wrote the Bible which explains the Bible from the point of view of a

psychologist. The following are some of his findings:

 

Psychosis and religious visions have been associated with each other

since the earliest recorded history. Mental illness has

traditionally been related to demon possession and prophetic ability

such as in the Bible. Saints such as Joan of Arc and Francis of

Assisi heard multiple voices in their heads and the Church

originally attacked them as being demon possessed. The Talmud

suggests that the prophet Hosea in the Bible was besieged with

delusions of being Moses.

 

The prophet Ezekiel has been diagnosed by psychiatrists an

unmistakable schizophrenic. His life, as recorded in the Book of

Ezekiel, shows a typical schizophrenic development: a deep

religiosity, hallucinatory visions, increasingly bizarre behavior,

isolation, and emotional collapse. He heard a voice commanding him

to lie on the right side of his body for 390 days then switch to his

left side for 40 more days. A voice told him to eat food cooked with

human excrement. Other prophets, such as John in the Book of

Revelation, see horrible monsters and devils. It is interesting that

one particular near-death experiencer discovered that the Book of

Revelation in the Bible is the record of a dream by John the

Revelator. This becomes apparent when the same archetypal images in

Revelation can be found in dream of Daniel the prophet in the Bible.

We also know from near-death accounts, the Bible, and dream research

that there is evidence that dreams, near-death experiences,

psychedelic, psychotic, and psychic experiences are all a phenomenon

of an altered level of consciousness.

 

Psychic or Psychotic?

 

With this in mind, one might ask, " What is the difference between

being mentally ill and prophetic? " My own psychiatrist once gave me

the answer:

 

 

People who hear voices and see things that aren't there can be

classified into two groups. The first group are people who cannot

cope with these voices and are called mentally ill. The second group

are people who can cope with the voices and are called psychic. It

is my personal belief that being psychic and being psychotic are the

same thing depending upon how you cope with it. Society in general

regards people who talk to God as holy. But society in general

regards people whom God talks to as insane.

 

 

Manic depression has been called a brilliant madness because of the

expansive ideas that psychosis can create. In days of old, people

recognized how mental illness can even be a gift. Socrates once

declared, " Our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness,

provided the madness is given us by divine gift. " Plato referred to

insanity as: " a divine gift and the source of the chief blessings

granted to men. " Native American Indians believed that their voice

hearers revealed messages that had great spiritual significance. The

idea of the mad scientist can probably be traced to the grandiose

thoughts that intelligent mentally ill people can have. John Nash, a

lifetime schizophrenic, received the Nobel Laureate in Economics and

his life was portrayed in the movie A Beautiful Mind. Other famous

mentally ill people are: Beethoven, Tolstoy, Van Gogh, Keats,

Hemingway, Dickens, Faulkner, Fitzgerald, Emerson, and Woolf, to

name just a few.

 

The nature of schizophrenia and other forms of psychosis are still

under debate and a significant issue is the relationship between

psychosis and the mystical, or religious, experience.

 

 

 

 

, " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org> wrote:

> , Ofiel Chishty

> <himavanti> wrote:

> >

> > Devilish, Asuric people, always change and " correct " teachings

and

> > paractices given them by their masters. And based upon received

> > practices devilish souls create their own, special rituals and

> > mantras even, with unknown meaning and so on. Some of these

people

> > are so called spiritual mental ill like schisophrenic oriented

> > toward God. Asuric people, devil one have such states because

> > touch with divine energy empowerd their stupidness and mixation

of

> > their minds, which are potentialy ill. This is well known, not

> > only in spiritual, religious psychology but from even Shiva

> > Puranas and another such old stories.

> >

> > And this is only one medicine for daemons, devil asuras, pretas,

> > pishachas.. Not to give them spiritual practices, which should be

> > kept more in secret and not so easily available. Such people are

> > not enlightment, but blinded through the Divine Real Light, and

> > confused, and they misguide many people into false pracices

> > leading to degradation of the soul..

> >

> > Oh, it is very long subject to write, but I give only these very

> > few words:)))

> >

> > Mohan

> >

>

> Hi Mohan,

>

> We had a character who claimed himself to be almost God. This

> happened during 1985/6 in UK where he lived.

>

> After gathering his Sahaja Yogi friends together he told them that

> he was a reincarnation of Saint Joseph of Arimathea, reputably Shri

> Jesus uncle who provided the burial sheet that enclosed Jesus's

> bloody corpse.

>

> He started boasting that he was the first guardian of the Holy

> Grail, the Holy Cup that had contained the blood of Jesus

> consecrated at the Last Supper or dripping from his crucified body.

> He then proceeded to build a powerful Sect within Sahaja Yoga to

> fulfill his perceived destiny on Earth to destroy evil in the name

> of God Almighty.

>

> In what he later dismissed as The Madness, Simon became so crazy

> that his Saint Joseph incarnation mutated into something far more

> powerful and All Mighty. Simon started to believe that he was a

> reincarnation of Lord Rama of the famous Ramayana.

>

> To cut a long story short he was told to leave by Shri Mataji.

>

> i am just writing this to ask what you think of such personalities?

> What makes them think and behave that way? Has it got anything to

do

> with their previous adharmic lives? What's wrong with those who

> first claim themselves to be Joseph and then self-promote

themselves

> to be even more divine i.e., Shri Rama? Any information about these

> type of twisted personalities would be welcome.

>

> regards,

>

>

> jagbir

[Guest guest]

Dear Jagbir,

The following article discusses the process of spiritual awakening,

and explains very well the dangers of attachment to spiritual

experiences.

Love, Semira

 

http://www.omplace.com/articles/PathConstruct.html

 

Excerpt from The Path To Enlightment Is Always Under Construction:

Spiritual Emergence And The Awakening Process

 

By Lynne Namka, Ed.D.

 

Christine Grof describes spiritual emergence as non ordinary states

of consciousness accompanied by unusual sensory and psychic

experiences that represent evolutionary crises to help the

individual elevate to a higher consciousness level. For some,

reality is being shifted rapidly. It is as if some of us are being

offered a chance to look at the " crack between the two worlds. " Many

people are currently walking between the two worlds as they undergo

powerful mystical experiences and surrender to what Ken Wilber

calls " remapping the soul to enlarge the territory. " He describes

the process as a disintegration of the lower levels of the self

which are negated and transcended to move on to higher levels of

consciousness.

 

According to recent surveys, over one third of the people in the

U.S. have reported mystical experiences. Profound religious

experiences may occur to provide a rapid elevation in consciousness.

These experiences include voices, visions, telepathy, exaltation and

ecstasy, Kundalini energy, channeling, paranormal abilities, near-

death experiences, karmic experience and beliefs of possession. Fear

may become paramount during these unusual experiences. Richard Moss

says that the process may result into entering a spiral of fear that

clouds the larger perspective. Looking into the process at a deep

level is the way to cement the new found knowledge.

 

Authors in the field describe such fear producing experiences as

themes of personal death, world destruction, being changed into the

other sex, as well as inflated visions of being a savior. Going into

the void to experience the " dark night of the soul " is the most

profound theme. All images whether they are presented in dreams,

meditations or visions are used to bring about a renewal or new

birth in the individual and are part of his unique spiritual

journey. Some people have intense experiences of a spiritual nature,

but this can be a trap if not put in the proper prospective. This is

NOT the time to attach to spiritual experiences and feel superior.

Many of the spiritual traditions of the world warn against being

carried away by positive revelations and mystical mind blowing

experiences that the individual may encounter.

 

 

 

, " semirafields "

<semirafields> wrote:

> Dear Jagbir,

> Here is an interesting link on the very complex subject of what is

> the difference between the psychotic and psychic.

> http://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers22.html

> Below is a small excerpt from the webpage. I think there is much

yet

> to understand about these issues, and further insight to be

gained.

> I especially found the following sentence to be close to the truth

> of these issues; " We also know from near-death accounts, the

Bible,

> and dream research that there is evidence that dreams, near-death

> experiences, psychedelic, psychotic, and psychic experiences are

all

> a phenomenon of an altered level of consciousness. " The only thing

> can can be stated with certainty is that people are able to have

> these kind of experiences due to an altered level of

consciousness,

> and that not all people are open to this state. People are afraid

of

> altered levels of consciousness, and so they condemn, try to

> rationalise and reject.

> Another significant section in considering your question

> is : " People who hear voices and see things that aren't there can

be

> classified into two groups. The first group are people who cannot

> cope with these voices and are called mentally ill. The second

group

> are people who can cope with the voices and are called psychic. It

> is my personal belief that being psychic and being psychotic are

the

> same thing depending upon how you cope with it. Society in general

> regards people who talk to God as holy. But society in general

> regards people whom God talks to as insane. "

> For some people possibly, the experiences are simply too

> overwhelming and fear and conditioning may cause resistance and

> block or alter understanding of these things. In these

experiences,

> all known boundaries are left behind. These experiences should

never

> be used to manipulate, harm or to control others; and this is

where

> things can go wrong for some people, and reveal the state of

purity

> or otherwise of the individual. Some people may abuse their

> experiences to gain power of others, as opposed to those who share

> simply that others may enjoy, and be comforted. Society is

terrified

> of the unknown, and has always been, and is conditioned to label

and

> to try to classify everything according to the present limits of

> understanding and research.

> Warmest regards, Semira

>

>

>

> The Dreaming God

>

> Herman H. Somers has a Ph.D. in psychology and was a Jesuit priest

> for forty years. He wrote the book entitled When God Slept, Man

> Wrote the Bible which explains the Bible from the point of view of

a

> psychologist. The following are some of his findings:

>

> Psychosis and religious visions have been associated with each

other

> since the earliest recorded history. Mental illness has

> traditionally been related to demon possession and prophetic

ability

> such as in the Bible. Saints such as Joan of Arc and Francis of

> Assisi heard multiple voices in their heads and the Church

> originally attacked them as being demon possessed. The Talmud

> suggests that the prophet Hosea in the Bible was besieged with

> delusions of being Moses.

>

> The prophet Ezekiel has been diagnosed by psychiatrists an

> unmistakable schizophrenic. His life, as recorded in the Book of

> Ezekiel, shows a typical schizophrenic development: a deep

> religiosity, hallucinatory visions, increasingly bizarre behavior,

> isolation, and emotional collapse. He heard a voice commanding him

> to lie on the right side of his body for 390 days then switch to

his

> left side for 40 more days. A voice told him to eat food cooked

with

> human excrement. Other prophets, such as John in the Book of

> Revelation, see horrible monsters and devils. It is interesting

that

> one particular near-death experiencer discovered that the Book of

> Revelation in the Bible is the record of a dream by John the

> Revelator. This becomes apparent when the same archetypal images

in

> Revelation can be found in dream of Daniel the prophet in the

Bible.

> We also know from near-death accounts, the Bible, and dream

research

> that there is evidence that dreams, near-death experiences,

> psychedelic, psychotic, and psychic experiences are all a

phenomenon

> of an altered level of consciousness.

>

> Psychic or Psychotic?

>

> With this in mind, one might ask, " What is the difference between

> being mentally ill and prophetic? " My own psychiatrist once gave

me

> the answer:

>

>

> People who hear voices and see things that aren't there can be

> classified into two groups. The first group are people who cannot

> cope with these voices and are called mentally ill. The second

group

> are people who can cope with the voices and are called psychic. It

> is my personal belief that being psychic and being psychotic are

the

> same thing depending upon how you cope with it. Society in general

> regards people who talk to God as holy. But society in general

> regards people whom God talks to as insane.

>

>

> Manic depression has been called a brilliant madness because of

the

> expansive ideas that psychosis can create. In days of old, people

> recognized how mental illness can even be a gift. Socrates once

> declared, " Our greatest blessings come to us by way of madness,

> provided the madness is given us by divine gift. " Plato referred

to

> insanity as: " a divine gift and the source of the chief blessings

> granted to men. " Native American Indians believed that their voice

> hearers revealed messages that had great spiritual significance.

The

> idea of the mad scientist can probably be traced to the grandiose

> thoughts that intelligent mentally ill people can have. John Nash,

a

> lifetime schizophrenic, received the Nobel Laureate in Economics

and

> his life was portrayed in the movie A Beautiful Mind. Other famous

> mentally ill people are: Beethoven, Tolstoy, Van Gogh, Keats,

> Hemingway, Dickens, Faulkner, Fitzgerald, Emerson, and Woolf, to

> name just a few.

>

> The nature of schizophrenia and other forms of psychosis are still

> under debate and a significant issue is the relationship between

> psychosis and the mystical, or religious, experience.

>

>

>

>

> , " jagbir singh "

> <adishakti_org> wrote:

> > , Ofiel Chishty

> > <himavanti> wrote:

> > >

> > > Devilish, Asuric people, always change and " correct " teachings

> and

> > > paractices given them by their masters. And based upon received

> > > practices devilish souls create their own, special rituals and

> > > mantras even, with unknown meaning and so on. Some of these

> people

> > > are so called spiritual mental ill like schisophrenic oriented

> > > toward God. Asuric people, devil one have such states because

> > > touch with divine energy empowerd their stupidness and

mixation

> of

> > > their minds, which are potentialy ill. This is well known, not

> > > only in spiritual, religious psychology but from even Shiva

> > > Puranas and another such old stories.

> > >

> > > And this is only one medicine for daemons, devil asuras,

pretas,

> > > pishachas.. Not to give them spiritual practices, which should

be

> > > kept more in secret and not so easily available. Such people

are

> > > not enlightment, but blinded through the Divine Real Light, and

> > > confused, and they misguide many people into false pracices

> > > leading to degradation of the soul..

> > >

> > > Oh, it is very long subject to write, but I give only these

very

> > > few words:)))

> > >

> > > Mohan

> > >

> >

> > Hi Mohan,

> >

> > We had a character who claimed himself to be almost God. This

> > happened during 1985/6 in UK where he lived.

> >

> > After gathering his Sahaja Yogi friends together he told them

that

> > he was a reincarnation of Saint Joseph of Arimathea, reputably

Shri

> > Jesus uncle who provided the burial sheet that enclosed Jesus's

> > bloody corpse.

> >

> > He started boasting that he was the first guardian of the Holy

> > Grail, the Holy Cup that had contained the blood of Jesus

> > consecrated at the Last Supper or dripping from his crucified

body.

> > He then proceeded to build a powerful Sect within Sahaja Yoga to

> > fulfill his perceived destiny on Earth to destroy evil in the

name

> > of God Almighty.

> >

> > In what he later dismissed as The Madness, Simon became so crazy

> > that his Saint Joseph incarnation mutated into something far more

> > powerful and All Mighty. Simon started to believe that he was a

> > reincarnation of Lord Rama of the famous Ramayana.

> >

> > To cut a long story short he was told to leave by Shri Mataji.

> >

> > i am just writing this to ask what you think of such

personalities?

> > What makes them think and behave that way? Has it got anything

to

> do

> > with their previous adharmic lives? What's wrong with those who

> > first claim themselves to be Joseph and then self-promote

> themselves

> > to be even more divine i.e., Shri Rama? Any information about

these

> > type of twisted personalities would be welcome.

> >

> > regards,

> >

> >

> > jagbir