Who is doing more damage hands down?

[Guest guest]

A leopard cannot change his spots and Simon will continue doing what

he has done with Chuck , myself and many others which his troubled

mind thinks is correct.

 

Just thinking aloud as to how much different is Simon from those who

are labelling Jagbir a non-SY and Violet unwelcome to SY collectives

just because they want the truth of who Shree Mataji really is and

what Her Divine Message is to be told upfront.

I do not see much difference in the end results of both their actions

except that one has got a tremendous effect

1)Simon is intentionally trying to do as much damage as possible to SY

and Mother

2)The SY organisation(s) and SYogi/nis which do not want the truth of

Mother to be told as well as Her Divine Message be proclaimed for

reasons best known to themselves are " collectively " (an ironical word)

unknowingly (?knowingly?) doing far far greater damage to SY and

Mother than Simon can possibly dream of eventhough they may claim

ignorance on their part later on.

 

How many SYogi/nis will have complete faith in Mother and have the

discretion and wisdom to be able to stand up to speak up when the

truth about Mother and SY is hidden intentionally (which is almost

close to lying) or unintentionally?

It need not be answered but a question each and every SYogi/ni have to

ask themselves and be introspected upon.

 

 

Best Regards

 

Balwinder

 

Violet wrote

But... then, as Jesus said: - " By their fruits you will know them " . It

does not matter if they know everything about Sahaja Yogis and Shri

Mataji, if they do not do Her will, they are not of Her fold: -

 

" Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the

Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in

heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not

prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your

name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never

knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

(Matthew 7:21-23)

 

 

 

On 9/17/05, jagbir singh <adishakti_org wrote:--- In

@gro

 

ups.com, " Violet " <vtubb@b...>

wrote:

>

> " For even Satan disguises himself as angel of light " (II

> Corinthians 11:14).

>

> This is what Jesus says about these personalities who try to

amass followers (sheep): -

>

> " Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door

into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a

thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of

the sheep. (John 10:1-2)

>

> These fake " Rama " and fake " Joseph " personalities think that

they are something special in the Kingdom of God, but they are only

deceiving themselves and their gullible followers. This is what it

says about the rise of false prophets: -

 

Dear Violet,

 

Thank you so much for this answer based on the Bible, and it fits

that Simon character we have so well. i am quite amazed that the Bible

does talk about these type of personalities and how one can get lost

in the wide paths of the Ida and Pingle Nadis. (Only the narrow path -

Shushumna Nadi - and guarded by Jesus Himself leads to the Kingdom of

God within.) Simon has undergone many of the mental problems mentioned

by those who get lost in the Ida and Pingla Nadis. There have been

others who got lost too and ended up claiming themselves to be Kalkis

and what not. Ishmael is the only one still clinging to this title and

has gathered a small cult around himself just like Simon. But unlike

him, Simon has become an atheist who denies all that he believed

before, including the characters of Joseph and Rama. This describes

him well:

 

Even a thousand Simons will not be able to lure you away from

fulfilling your spiritual destiny and eternal life in the promised

Kingdom of God.

 

i cannot say the same for those who join because of the official

claim that Sahaja Yoga is about chakras, kundalini and stress

management. After all, 99.99% of them have left and continue to do so.

They did not even walk a single mile because they know of

hundreds/thousands of gurus and teachers who preach the same path.

 

But we will overcome all obstacles as the numbers of those

proclaiming the Divine Message to others slowly increase. If SYs had

followed Shri Mataji's instructions way back in the early 1980s it

would have been so different today. But since they did not, and still

do not want to, we will just have to bear a much heavier burden over a

very long and difficult journey.

 

 

Jai Shri Mataji,

 

 

jagbir

 

 

-~->

[Guest guest]

, " Balwinder "

<balwinderdr@g...> wrote:

>

> A leopard cannot change his spots and Simon will continue doing

> what he has done with Chuck , myself and many others which his

> troubled mind thinks is correct.

>

 

Yes, he privately contacts all who post on this forum. That is why a

dossier was made for this ex-incarnation, something that management

SYs failed to realize was necessary despite many brain-storming

sessions:

 

http://www.adishakti.org/simon_d_montford.htm

 

http://www.adishakti.org/cult_sdm/cultsdm.htm

 

They were trying to make SYs believe that the reason Sahaja Yoga is

not spreading is because of him. And till today many parrot the

same, making Simon scapegoat #1 for all that ails Sahaja Yoga. First

i believe that too but later found they were just giving excuses for

their own failures. If hundreds of brainstorming sessions do not

brings results someone has to be the fall guy. So why not pick an

exiled ex-incarnation like Simon?

 

 

> Just thinking aloud as to how much different is Simon from those

> who are labelling Jagbir a non-SY and Violet unwelcome to SY

> collectives just because they want the truth of who Shree Mataji

> really is and what Her Divine Message is to be told upfront.

>

 

Allan Wherry and company took upon themselves to excommunicate me

from Sahaja Yoga. This was initiated years ago when Yogi Mahajan was

in charge of SYPIS - Sahaja Yoga Propaganda & Intelligence Services

(pronounced " Sai Piss " ). A number of influential Sai Piss members

still continue to carry out the original aims of this nefarious and

secretive organization whose head, the great world leader Yogi

Mahajan, was finally thrown out of Sahaja Yoga by Shri Mataji.

 

Now Allan Wherry and company sit upon the World Council. They regard

Violet a danger to the organization and decided that she was no

longer welcome to the collective. But Balwinder, if you look closely

it is a disguised excommunication. Violet is effectively a non-SY

when she cannot attend collective meditation and meetings. Violet

will have to live that way till she renounces telling the truth

upfront and to all.

 

Allan Wherry and company tried to do the same with Dr. Mary Ann but

she demanded evidence i.e., a written letter from WACSY that she

cannot be a moderator at the new forum. No such letter came and

their bluff was exposed.

 

However, the point to remember is that some council members have

already started flexing their 'divine powers' as representatives of

the Will of Shri Mataji. Labelling me a non-SY and forbidding Violet

from attending the collective is just an appetizer. When SYs get the

main course over the years they will be too conditioned to even dare

squeak in protest. After all, just the the popes of the Catholic

Church, you do not go against those presenting the Will of the

Shakti.

 

 

> I do not see much difference in the end results of both their

> actions except that one has got a tremendous effect

> 1)Simon is intentionally trying to do as much damage as possible

> to SY and Mother

> 2)The SY organisation(s) and SYogi/nis which do not want the truth

> of Mother to be told as well as Her Divine Message be proclaimed

> for reasons best known to themselves are " collectively " (an

> ironical word) unknowingly (?knowingly?) doing far far greater

> damage to SY and Mother than Simon can possibly dream of

> eventhough they may claim ignorance on their part later on.

>

 

There is no question that management SYs/leaders have done far more

damage than anything else to the SY organization. In the first place

they have never allowed the rank and file to be honest and upfront

about the truth. (Michalis and Sakis do not seem to understand that

this is why they behave so.) This pervasive atmosphere of being

dishonest for the seeker's sake is now standard policy and is

accepted without any feeling of guilt or shame. They all find solace

in numbers. Why feel guilty or shameful when leaders/management SYs

are telling us that it is halal (kosher)?

 

i would like to present a scathing letter addressed years ago to all

SYs regarding Shri Mataji and Sahaja Yoga:

 

" It is astonishing that the sahaja yogis, who believe Shri Mataji to

be the savior of humanity prophecied by many religious scriptures,

have not the conviction to promote her to the world openly, honestly

and unashamedly as that. Promotion of the savior will draw more

serious attention from many more people than do the current vague

claims about stress relief and peace of mind. This lack of

conviction speaks volumes and is the same reason they fail to

respond to those who challenge SY. You simply can't be one thing and

then attempt to portray yourself as another - no matter how clever

you are, it shows and people see it very clearly. This is called

hypocrisy. It indicates the vast majority of sahaja yogis are in a

state of denial.

 

On the premise that Shri Mataji is indeed the Adi Shakti, on what

basis do the sahaja yogis take it upon themselves to discriminate as

to whom is delivered the message of her present incarnation and by

what convoluted process that message is selectively delivered? To

take upon themselves to make such discriminations is an expression

of an elitist, missionary culture motivated by power and authority

over others. The message must be very plain and simple if every

person on the planet is to be afforded the opportunity to draw their

own conclusions about the goddess incarnate. Why do the sahaja yogis

make something so simple so complicated?. Why are they doing so poor

a job in telling the world of Shri Mataji, when as the goddess she

will surely stand and be recognised as the reality they claim she is?

 

My parting word is that like it or not, Shri Mataji and her sahaja

yogis must face the issues presented by those who challenge them.

Intelligent response is required and what remains to be seen is

whether they are capable of this. The longer they avoid it, the more

SY will be clearly identified to be lacking in credibility and its

members in integrity. The more they will appear to be a cultish

throw-back to the dark ages. I recommend the sahaja yogis today

change their whole approach and start promoting SY as what it is - a

religion focused around a personality who has claimed, and is

understood by them, to be the Adi Shakti, divine mother of the

universe. This is, after all, the year of exposure for SY.

May truth prevail.

 

Alex "

 

 

Balwinder, there is one fatal flaw in the whole SY organization that

has been overlooked. Even if SYs want to tell the truth there is

no 'official' website that explains about the Divine Message and who

Shri Mataji is. Since www.adishakti.org and www.al-qiyamah.org and

these forums have been labbelled " Made by a non-SY " by the likes of

Allan Wherry and company, where do conscientious SYs go? Nowhere!

 

This is a major wound that management SYs have self-inflicted on the

organization. Earlier i said that when such idiots run the

organization who needs morons. Now i say that when such idiots ruin

the organization who needs morons.

 

 

> How many SYogi/nis will have complete faith in Mother and have the

> discretion and wisdom to be able to stand up to speak up when the

> truth about Mother and SY is hidden intentionally (which is almost

> close to lying) or unintentionally?

> It need not be answered but a question each and every SYogi/ni

> have to ask themselves and be introspected upon.

>

>

 

Yes, Balwinder, SYs must face and introspect the bitter truth that

is being presented at this forum. It does not matter what some SYs

may want to call us just because they cannot agree on being honest.

These people just cannot get it that the stench from the night-soil

carrier is not coming from the poor unfortunate soul but what he is

carrying. Some just do not have the capacity or intelligence or

wisdom to grasp the facts ....... even if they stink to high heaven.

 

Jai Shri Mataji,

 

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

Dear Friends,

I wish to modify the following section of the below post so that the

new version reads as follows:

 

" I do not believe that Simon has made a cult. He is part of a group

of people who are attacking Sahaja Yoga, and those who defend their

beliefs regarding Sahaja Yoga. Even so, people should be free to

present their experiences and views, good or bad; and everyone can

freely draw their own conclusions.This is all part of the path to

the Truth, doubts have to be faced.

The Truth cannot be simply sought in the words or actions of others,

it can only be found within. It is one thing to present true

experiences about events in an organization, and it is another to

blaspheme against and ridicule what is sacred to Sahaja Yogis; and

people do realise this. "

 

I apologise to everyone concerned, and realise that I have been

judgemental and unfair.

 

Best wishes, Semira

 

 

I do not believe that Simon has made a cult. He is part of a group

of very disillusioned, hurt and angry people who have lost their

faith, and they are taking out their bitterness by attacking

spirituality, and those who defend their beliefs. The very fact that

he has become an atheist means that he now denies all spirituality,

and so seekers of spiritual truth will easily realize that his views

are extremely limited, as he has completely closed his mind. Even

so, people should be free to present their experiences and views,

good or bad; and everyone can freely draw their own conclusions.

This is all part of the path to the Truth, doubts have to be faced.

The Truth cannot be simply sought in the words or actions of others,

it can only be found within. It is one thing to present true

experiences about events in an organization, and it is another to

blaspheme against and ridicule all that people hold sacred; and

people do realise this.

 

 

 

 

 

, " semirafields "

<semirafields> wrote:

> Dear Dr Balwinder and Jagbir,

>

> The information and explanations presented by Violet about this

> have been very helpful, and it is good to have this subject under

> discussion so that we each individually may be aware of the

pitfalls

> and sidepaths, as described by Jesus, and Shri Mataji. However,

> each individual has to make his own inner spiritual journey, and at

> times it can be very difficult and painful for various reasons, and

> we should not judge, attack and condemn others for their choices,

or

> failings.

> I do not believe that Simon has made a cult. He is part of a group

> of very disillusioned, hurt and angry people who have lost their

> faith, and they are taking out their bitterness by attacking

> spirituality, and those who defend their beliefs. The very fact

that

> he has become an atheist means that he now denies all spirituality,

> and so seekers of spiritual truth will easily realize that his

views

> are extremely limited, as he has completely closed his mind. Even

> so, people should be free to present their experiences and views,

> good or bad; and everyone can freely draw their own conclusions.

> This is all part of the path to the Truth, doubts have to be faced.

> The Truth cannot be simply sought in the words or actions of

others,

> it can only be found within. It is one thing to present true

> experiences about events in an organization, and it is another to

> blaspheme against and ridicule all that people hold sacred; and

> people do realise this.

> I also do not believe that there is a cult of Ishmael, he is a

> Sahaja Yogi who has had intense experiences that are not easily

> understood.

> All these problems and misunderstandings will clear when we realize

> that the Kingdom of Heaven is within, and cannot be sought in

> external things.

> I agree with you that those in the SY organisation itself are doing

> far more harm than any ex-members. People are completely put off

and

> repelled by deception, misrepresentation and censorship. There can

> be absolutely no excuse for knowingly practising deception.

> Warm regards, Semira

>

>

>

>

> , " Balwinder "

> <balwinderdr@g...> wrote:

> > A leopard cannot change his spots and Simon will continue doing

> what

> > he has done with Chuck , myself and many others which his

troubled

> > mind thinks is correct.

> >

> > Just thinking aloud as to how much different is Simon from those

> who

> > are labelling Jagbir a non-SY and Violet unwelcome to SY

> collectives

> > just because they want the truth of who Shree Mataji really is

and

> > what Her Divine Message is to be told upfront.

> > I do not see much difference in the end results of both their

> actions

> > except that one has got a tremendous effect

> > 1)Simon is intentionally trying to do as much damage as possible

> to SY

> > and Mother

> > 2)The SY organisation(s) and SYogi/nis which do not want the

truth

> of

> > Mother to be told as well as Her Divine Message be proclaimed for

> > reasons best known to themselves are " collectively " (an ironical

> word)

> > unknowingly (?knowingly?) doing far far greater damage to SY and

> > Mother than Simon can possibly dream of eventhough they may claim

> > ignorance on their part later on.

> >

> > How many SYogi/nis will have complete faith in Mother and have

the

> > discretion and wisdom to be able to stand up to speak up when the

> > truth about Mother and SY is hidden intentionally (which is

almost

> > close to lying) or unintentionally?

> > It need not be answered but a question each and every SYogi/ni

> have to

> > ask themselves and be introspected upon.

> >

> >

> > Best Regards

> >

> > Balwinder

> >

> > Violet wrote

> > But... then, as Jesus said: - " By their fruits you will know

> them " . It

> > does not matter if they know everything about Sahaja Yogis and

Shri

> > Mataji, if they do not do Her will, they are not of Her fold: -

> >

> > " Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the

> > Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is

in

> > heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not

> > prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in

> Your

> > name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I

> never

> > knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

> > (Matthew 7:21-23)

> >

> >

> >

> > On 9/17/05, jagbir singh <adishakti_org> wrote:--- In

> > @gro

> >

> > ups.com, " Violet " <vtubb@b...>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > " For even Satan disguises himself as angel of light " (II

> > > Corinthians 11:14).

> > >

> > > This is what Jesus says about these personalities who try

to

> > amass followers (sheep): -

> > >

> > > " Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the

> door

> > into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is

a

> > thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is a shepherd

of

> > the sheep. (John 10:1-2)

> > >

> > > These fake " Rama " and fake " Joseph " personalities think

that

> > they are something special in the Kingdom of God, but they are

only

> > deceiving themselves and their gullible followers. This is what

it

> > says about the rise of false prophets: -

> >

> > Dear Violet,

> >

> > Thank you so much for this answer based on the Bible, and it

> fits

> > that Simon character we have so well. i am quite amazed that the

> Bible

> > does talk about these type of personalities and how one can get

> lost

> > in the wide paths of the Ida and Pingle Nadis. (Only the narrow

> path -

> > Shushumna Nadi - and guarded by Jesus Himself leads to the

Kingdom

> of

> > God within.) Simon has undergone many of the mental problems

> mentioned

> > by those who get lost in the Ida and Pingla Nadis. There have

been

> > others who got lost too and ended up claiming themselves to be

> Kalkis

> > and what not. Ishmael is the only one still clinging to this

title

> and

> > has gathered a small cult around himself just like Simon. But

> unlike

> > him, Simon has become an atheist who denies all that he believed

> > before, including the characters of Joseph and Rama. This

describes

> > him well:

> >

> > Even a thousand Simons will not be able to lure you away from

> > fulfilling your spiritual destiny and eternal life in the

promised

> > Kingdom of God.

> >

> > i cannot say the same for those who join because of the

> official

> > claim that Sahaja Yoga is about chakras, kundalini and stress

> > management. After all, 99.99% of them have left and continue to

do

> so.

> > They did not even walk a single mile because they know of

> > hundreds/thousands of gurus and teachers who preach the same

> path.

> >

> > But we will overcome all obstacles as the numbers of those

> > proclaiming the Divine Message to others slowly increase. If SYs

> had

> > followed Shri Mataji's instructions way back in the early 1980s

it

> > would have been so different today. But since they did not, and

> still

> > do not want to, we will just have to bear a much heavier burden

> over a

> > very long and difficult journey.

> >

> >

> > Jai Shri Mataji,

> >

> >

> > jagbir

> >

> >

> > -~->