jai shri mata ji.............enjoy the blessing

[Guest guest]

Radio Interview with Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Hong> Kong 1992>> Interviewer: Shri Mataji, from the information I've> read about you, you were> born in India, a Christian. How was that ?>> Shri Mataji: I was born a Christian, that's all.>> Interviewer: There can't be many Christian families> in that country.>> Shri Mataji: There are lots of Christians. Apart> from that I was born a> Christian.>> Interviewer: Which part of India do you truly come> from ?>> Shri Mataji: Just the centre of India. Absolutely> the centre of India.>> Interviewer: Is there anything specific about this> being the central point?>> Shri Mataji: It is the central point because I have> to be in the centre to> do my job. That's why I was born in the centre of> India.>>

Interviewer: When you were a child, though, being> born in the centre of> India, did that mean anything to you, as a young> girl ?>> Shri Mataji: I did not know it was the centre or> anything to be discovered> about it. I just knew what my mission was, what I> was. I knew I was to be> born at the right point. I took all these things for> granted. I knew this> was to be so. I knew this very well.>> Interviewer: How old were you when you realised that> you had this mission ?>> Shri Mataji: All my life. As you realise you are a> human. In the same way I> knew I had to do all this. I knew I was different.>> Interviewer: And did you start fulfilling this> mission ever since you can> remember ?>> Shri Mataji: Yes of course. I knew I had healing> powers and I knew I had> curing powers. I knew I could raise the

kundalini;> all that I knew. But I> knew I wanted to do something to know all the> combinations and permutations> of the problems of human beings. That's how I> studied that. I wanted to find> out a proper time (that) I could find out a method> by (which) a mass> happening could happen¡ Kthey could achieve it. And> on the 5th of May I was> sitting near the sea there. I decided that it should> happen and it worked> out that the last centre as they call it, the limbic> area above, that> resides the opening for the Divine, what we can call> what we call in the> bible as the baptism. The baptism we had was just a> ritual. The real> baptism is that when the residual force within us> called as kundalini, when> it rises and pierces the fontanelle bone area, which> is a soft bone you had> as a child, that time is the real baptism and

this> baptism was to be> achieved.> But I wanted to make a way by which we could make a> mass happening, because,> you see, if it happened to one person, say, Christ> was a Realised Soul, a> great incarnation he was the Son of God no doubt,> but nobody recognized Him.> And when He tried to explain they would not> understand because he was at> such a height that they could not understand what He> was seeing, what He was> talking about and ultimately . it was very wrong to> crucify a man of that> calibre. He was the incarnation.>> Interviewer: So it was on the 5th of May, of what> particular year ?>> Shri Mataji: 1970>> Interviewer: Let's go back to when you were a child.> Was there anything> about the way you were brought up that might have> led you to ..>> Shri Mataji: Very much. From my very

childhood I> knew I was to be conceived> by my mother. They told me lots of things. What> happened to my mother . But> one of the main things I remember now was this. She> wanted to go and see a> tiger when she was eight months pregnant and my> father said that's funny> that you want to go and see a tiger at this advanced> stage of pregnancy.> But she said, No, I must go and see a tiger. And so> my father was a big> well-known hunter in those days and one of the Rajas> sent a word saying> there was, a man-eater perhaps in the forest and we> would like you to come> and help us. See now I've got a message and now I> have to go. And my mother> said, Alright, if you have to go, I am coming with> you.> How will you come at this stage ?> No, I must come to see the tiger moving. Then he> went there and she also. We> use a kind of

platform on top. They build it in a> tree . And these> villagers, you see, they drive the animal towards> the hunter. My father and> mother always sitting on top of the (platform), and> suddenly the> big, huge tiger appeared, and my father said he> had never seen such a big> one before, it was coming in the moonlight and> walking very stealthily in> his own grace and dignity. And my mother was so> enamored, you see, that she> just looked at it. She was so happy as if her child> has seen. She felt very> happy, she said. My father wanted to kill the animal> and mother said, No, if> you are going to kill the animal I am going to jump.> You are not going to> kill the tiger. Then the tiger disappeared. They> don't know where the tiger> went. So my father knew that it would be some> powerful personality that is> going to be born. And my

father, being a Realised> Soul, knew it was> something extraordinary.>> Interviewer: What about when you were actually a> child ? Did they treat you> as something special and teach you some special> things to help on this> mission of yours ?>> Shri Mataji: No it was not like that. You see it was> a very free sort of an> expression of a personality. People accepted. I was> very loving,> compassionate and generous. I was a unique person to> have as a child, but it> was different; but only thing I would say that my> father understood me much> better because he was a Realised Soul. When grew up> he told me, no use> talking about it to anyone. First of all find a> method by which people get> en masse realisation. That is your work. As you> know, unless and until you> find that, there's no use talking about it.

They'll> create another Koran or> Bible , what's the use. You must give them an> experience or they will never> understand.>> Interviewer: Did you continue this idea of yours of> trying to get this> message going through your work with Mahatma Gandhi?>>> Shri Mataji: No, that time it was very different. It> was an emergency. In a> small way I contributed. He loved me very much. He> used to call me Nepali.> It is our face you see ,because I have a broad face.> He always used to call> me Nepali. But he was a man born for an emergency> and when India wanted to> be politically independent. But there was this thing> And a political leader> need not worry about Spirit and Religion, but he> considered our country to> be a land of Yoga. He always based his theories and> philosophies and> activities on the fibre of the

people. We are a very> religious people and> how to create an atmosphere of satisfaction in the> people. He had that> within him. But he didn't talk of Realisation and as> a when I was a little> child of 7 years I used to play about with him and> (he) was very fond of me> so I would make some orange juice for him and he> would discuss with me small> things and remember once I told him, Why do you make> everyone get up so> early ? If you want to get up you can, but why do> you make everyone get up> so early ? It's all right for me, but why do you> have to make everyone ? (He> said) everyone should be made to get up we are> passing through a crisis. We> have to fight the British and get our independence> and if people are> lethargic how are we going to do it. So we have to> be disciplined and we> must have discipline and it will be

all right. And> then I told him we need> to have inner discipline and so he knew that I was a> wise person. And he> used to love me and respect me in a very fatherly> manner. He would discuss> things with me. He impressed me by many things. He> had a sense of integrity> within himself. He was absolutely honest to himself.> That was something I> appreciated. He never cheated himself. This is the> greatest thing about him.> In money matters, anything, he was so integrated.> What he said he did, he> criticised himself.But for him Realisation was not> the problem at that time.> But after independence we should have taken to> Realisation. That was the> main problem. But after Realisation we had problems> of , say, partition. And> the diversion of the whole attention was on the> wrong things. We had to> solve this problem and nobody

thought of Realisation> at that time. It should> be so.>> Interviewer: How much do think Mahatma Gandhi> influenced the way your Sahaja> Yoga developed, your way of thinking now, your> technique maybe ?>> Shri Mataji: You see it was no question of influence> because you see this is> another realm I am talking about. Sahaja Yoga takes> you to another realm> where these problems do not exist. These problems> work out with Divine> power, not with human powers. And Divine power is> there and they work it out> eventually in such a smooth manner that there is no> need to use these human> powers. But his main contribution, I think, was to> establish balance in> people. Balance in people was the main thing. And> make them more Indian and> to take out all the slavish mentality that had> trickled down into us, make> us

feel our own self-neglect all these things were> there. But the realm in> which I was different from his. So the question of> influence doesn't come> in. But, I would say that, certain things were> influenced my choice, say,> of different prayers. I told him according to the> different centres within> us. I said you do this one, then this one, and he> said, Alright, it's a good> idea, and he changed. It was so smooth and silently> done that it was not> made obvious to anyone that we had any rapport on> these things nor did he> ever ask me about Spirit nor did he ever meditate.> He did not meditate> because he was not Realised. At that time he was not> a Realised Soul. His> main attention was for this and he will be born> again and he will be> Realised. He will be born Realised because he was> very, very great. He was a> Great Soul,

no doubt. He was extremely great as a> human being. But> Realisation is very different. It's another realm> into which human beings> go. His meditation was to ponder about things and to> guide oneself, but not> the kind of meditation where we become thoughtlessly> aware. It's a different> dimension in your awareness.>> Interviewer: Is this then what Self-Realisation> means, what you mean as a> Realised Soul?>> Shri Mataji: Yes, Self-Realisation means when the> Self, which is talked> about in all the scriptures, starts emitting its> manifestation in our> conscious mind means that time when we become aware> of it. To this extent> our central nervous system starts recording the> power of our Spirit, of> oneself. And we start feeling the breeze-like> vibrations of the Spirit which> is called as in the Bible as the Cool

Breeze of the> Holy Spirit.>> Interviewer: You're saying them that when a person> is Realised he feels some> actual physical things.>> Shri Mataji: Yes, the energy that's flowing through> him he can feel it..> It's flowing through his body. Not only that but he> becomes. It's not> lecturing or any brain-washing. He actually becomes> collectively conscious,> means in his awareness he can start feeling another> person's centres and> also his own centres and he can start correcting it.>> Interviewer: Is it like finding what one can, or> what people have loosely> described as the Soul inside one ?>> Shri Mataji: Yes, but they're quite confused people.> They don't know what is> Soul, what is Spirit. But these are all precise> things. Soul is the thing> which is not only Spirit but is the body, the>

personality. Except for the> element of earth in it. We are made of five elements> out of which the> element of earth drops out; then you become the> Soul, because you cannot be> seen but you exist in another plane.>> Interviewer: Was it before you decided to start,> truly started, your mission> you also took some courses in medicine ?>> Shri Mataji: Yes, I did some medicine because I knew> I had to talk to> doctors and explain to them what is all this because> I knew, but I didn't> know what to call it because the names are given by> human beings. So I had> to study. I also studied one dictionary on> psychology because I knew I had> to talk to psychologists, doctors and scientists who> have to know about it> to say what they call it, you see.>> Interviewer: The theory that scientists say that man> came from a little

cell> from heaven knows where. How did you feel about> those?>> Shri Mataji: It's a fact, it's a fact. He (man) came> through a cell, evolved> through a cell. How did he evolve ? Why did he> evolve ? What is the purpose> of his life ? (It) is not all answered by science.> What is the power that> makes you evolve ? Also, that is not answered. So in> Sahaja Yoga you know> all that ¡V not only you evolve but with the same> power you go higher.>> Interviewer: What is your theory about that then ?> Why are we here, or, why> are we so long in the process ?>> Shri Mataji: You see, anything that you create, even> human beings for> example, you have created things. (A) beautiful lamp> is to give us the> light, isn't it, the power. So that's how God has> created us, to give His> power to us that we feel him and know Him

in our> awareness and understand> and we emit His powers and enjoy it. To say in the> words of Christ, To enter> into the kingdom of God.>> Interviewer: Are you talking about the same God as> every religion talks> about.>> Shri Mataji: Absolutely, there's nothing else.>> Interviewer: Is Sahaja Yoga a sort of new religion ?>> Shri Mataji: No, it is the integration, it's the> Enlightenment that proves> all the religions and all the incarnations and their> integration.>> Interviewer: How does it prove it ?>> Shri Mataji: So, in the sense that you can see, in> the room there are many> things. When it's dark you see this thing as> something different and another> thing and you say it is something different, (or)> this is mine, this is> mine, this is the truth, because you see that and> another

sees another> thing. But in the light you see the whole thing> belongs to the same. Sahaja> Yoga just gives you that light of the Spirit by> which you start seeing it's> all just the same. For example, now, once you are> connected to the Spirit> you start getting those cool vibrations in your> hand. Now, you want to ask,> Now is there God. Immediately you start getting a> lot of cool vibrations> coming to you. The questions are answered like this.> You start feeling them,> and every question. If you ever have a problem, you> can ask and you can know> because you are connected to the Absolute. All such> questions you are> asking. Say you are a Realised Soul. You can get the> answers on your hands> and you can know if this is true. Whether Christ> was. Now they say He was> the Son of God. People challenge, I can understand> that

because they were> not Realised Souls, that's why they couldn't> understand that time. But when> you're Realised, you just ask, Was He the Son of God> ? and you'll see that> the vibrations will start flowing. You'll know who> was really a real saint> or a prophet, a fake one. Everything you can find> out through these> vibrations because a rapport is established now you> are connected. Like this> (microphone) is connected to the mains. Unless and> until this speaker is> connected to the mains it is useless. You are to be> connected to the mains.> Unless and until this instrument, that is created> from amoeba to this stage,> is connected to the mains you will not know> yourself. You are not going to> know your meaning, neither are you going to know the> function for which you> are created.>> Interviewer: Surely it's a matter

of what stage of> your development that you> can even start to questions about these things.>> Shri Mataji: No, not necessarily, because the time> has come. There's no need> to have a question. I find it everywhere. I find it> has different styles.> For example some countries have problems they are> facing. They are so> speedy. Cancer is one of them which can be cured> after Sahaja Yoga,> otherwise you cannot cure cancer. So many things are> there. Developing> countries have their own problems, then they start> thinking, What about us ?> How are we? For example, India, we have problems,> they get so confused. They> don't know how to solve these problems. They try to> solve one problem, so> they start thinking about it, now what is it, what's> going wrong? You do not> have the light. You are walking in the darkness. You> are

bumping at each> other for nothing at all.>> Interviewer: Will people be able to handle this> Sahaja Yoga do you think ?>> Shri Mataji: Yes, by all means. You see once you are> Self-Realised you have> to, a little bit, establish yourself ¡V that's true.> You take about, at the> most, one month or two months. Once you are> established you become so> powerful and so wise. The vibrations tell you and> you just don't do wrong> things. If you start doing it you don't like it> because you start getting> the pain in the fingers. Something happens to you ¡V> you enjoy this, so> blissful.>> Interviewer: Don't you think that perhaps it might> go the same way, say, for> instance, if you talk about Christ teaching His love> idea and how we should> love everybody, that some people just didn't accept> that.>>

Shri Mataji: It does not matter. But that may not be> possible now because> who cannot accept will have problems. They will have> to accept or they will> have problems. Gradually perhaps they have to accept> it. This is because> this is the solution to all of the problems; because> you have problems you> have to accept it, otherwise human beings are easy> things to accept it.> Christ, you see, at that time, didn't come for> Self-Realisation. He just> came to prove that there is Spiritual power.> Resurrection, which cannot be> killed, is His message. My message is not> Resurrection or anything. Mine is> your Resurrection .Resurrection of the whole human> race, (it) is their> evolution. (This) is my message. This is my job.>> Interviewer: How are you going to convince> hard-boiled cynics that this is> the right way to go about things

?>> Shri Mataji: You see, this nature will work it out> in so many ways. These> cynics are there. They are cynics because of certain> reasons. There would> not be so, but they are conditioned. You can find> out because they must be> having problems with that, mental problems, also> problems with the family.> Cynics will always have problems with the family. I> do not say that they> always have problems; some say that only those who> are happy can come to> Sahaja Yoga. Not necessarily so. There is a category> of seekers. There is a> category of people who are seekers. First I have to> worry about them those> who are real seekers. It's a category. And that's> why they are unhappy> because they are a different category. They will not> be satisfied with> anything. They will try everything. They will try to> get some money, to

get> power. They'll try this, that. But they'll not be> happy, because they're a> different category. Then they will seek God, so> they'll seek again, God.> They'll go to wrong people and spend money here,> there. Do this, that.> Everything they'll try, and then they'll find out.> Still they haven't found> out what they were (seeking), so they'll come to> Sahaja Yoga. So, first, my> attention is on the seekers. It's a category. As I> told you these people> know that William Blake has written about , he calls> them, men of God. And> these men of God, he says, will become prophets. And> these prophets have a> special power by which they will be giving> Realisation to others and making> them into prophets.>> Interviewer: Are you saying then that William Blake> was a Realised Soul.>> Shri Mataji: Yes, of

course.>> Interviewer: How can one be a Realised Soul when> you're here now.>> Shri Mataji: (laughing) You see, there were many> Realised Souls before also,> and it's the power (which) is all-pervading; is> eternal, is all-existing.All> of these great Saints like we can say John the> Baptist was a Realised Soul,> Shakespeare was a great Realised Soul. He was> tremendous, the way he tried> to show the futility of life. He definitely was a> Realised Soul. And this> you will know by feeling the vibrations of these> people, whether they were> Realised or not. You can feel the vibrations that> they were Realised Souls.> And these Realised Souls (existed) thousands of> years back. Like on a tree,> there are only one or two flowers to begin with,> then gradually the blossom> times come and there are many flowers and there

are> many fruits for growth.>> Interviewer: What does it take to be a Realised> Soul. Is it a mature person,> or is it somebody who appreciates mankind for what> it is ?>> Shri Mataji: No, it's not a mental status that's> important. It is the desire> within you, the pure desire to be one with God, to> be one with beyond. This> pure desire; it may exist, also the desire that you> see it's not everything.> You get fed up. It's a drama and you get bored. You> try everything, but you> are not happy about it. You see, it's the pure> desire, be one with your> Spirit. You may not be educated. You may be a street> urchin. You could be> living in a remote place but still the pure desire> may be in you completely> existing and that works it out. But you are not> aware of the pure desire,> but it works out. But you are not aware

of the pure> desire, but that works> it out because you do not feel happy with other> things you feel frustrated.> And what ever you try, so what ! It's an economic> science. You see, in> particular, you may satisfy a want but in general> they are not satiable. So> even the matter teaches you.>> Interviewer: Two very interesting thoughts come to> my head at this point.> One, is it through being Realised that one gets> knowledge of what's on the> other side of death, as it were. And, two, whether> one really, through this> Realisation, that one finds a little bit of God> inside oneself.>> Shri Mataji: That's the point. Second point is> correct. You find God within> yourself then your priorities change about knowing> about things. You don't> want to know what is beyond life because you come in> the present. You

are> not worried about the past and the future but that> also you know because> gradually your vision improves. You start seeing> what happens after death.> You see the patients coming to you and you start> seeing they are spirits and> this and that and they are possessed by the spirits> and then you talk and> find out such a lot about them, what all that is. So> it comes to you as an> experimentation with your truth that you have found> out. But the main thing> that happens to you is that feeling that> universality; just start feeling in> the sense (that) it becomes a part and parcel of> your awareness. Just a part> and parcel of your awareness. As a human being you> have a special awareness> for flowers, a special awareness for cleanliness.> Animals don't have. In the> same way you go to the point where you just become> aware of

that you start> feeling them around. You start feeling what is right> and wrong. For example,> if I start telling people, this is sin, then they> will do it a hundred> times. If I give them Realisation they will not just> do it. They will see> it. In the night, I am sleeping in this room and> there is this snake up here> and someone will say there is a snake. And I say, no> it's not there, I can't> see it. But if you put on the light I'll just know> it's a snake and I will> run away from it.>> Interviewer: How does one know what's right and> what's wrong though ?>> Shri Mataji: You see, because you have not found the> Absolute that's why> there's a problem. But if you have found the> Absolute, you'll just know it.> But it is not knowledge by your rationality, but in> your being. You just> feel it on your fingers. You

just know what is> happening to another person.> You start feeling it. Just feeling it is not good.> You know something is not> right in this house. There's some centres catching> on your fingers. You ask> someone, you find there is something wrong.>> Interviewer: You're talking about feelings things> now through the fingers, a> part of the body. How did you come about this> particular idea, it is through> the fingers that one has this knowledge of oneself?>> Shri Mataji: I knew all these things beforehand. It> is too (laughing) to> say, now, it is true what to say now? I knew this.> This is my knowledge, as> you say. I knew all this.>> Interviewer: You feel you are sent here by God or,> say, as the next prophet> in line ?>> Shri Mataji: I don't want to say all that because I> don't want to get>

crucified for nothing at all. No, I am quite wise.> But there is something> special, no doubt, something very great, according> to human beings. But for> me, it's nothing great. It's just the same. Say the> sun gives you light.> What's so great about it? It has light, so it gives> you light. Supposing I> have this power I cannot do, I cannot even play my> own radio. I am so> hopelessly bad. But I knew Kundalini. I know how to> do this work. There's> nothing to feel I am higher or lower. This is my> job. I am here for that> job, finished, that is all.>> Interviewer: A lot of people in the last few years> particularly have come up> who have ideas along your lines. A lot of yogas, a> lot of yogis. People have> got this misconception about yoga.>> Shri Mataji: You see, yoga, in simple words, means> union with God, with>

Spirit. All other things are nonsense. You see, you> stand on your head, you> do this thing. It's a spontaneous process. It's a> living process of the> living God. It has to happen within you, like the> sprouting of the seed.> Now, if you stand on your head, can you sprout a> seed? Can you turn a flower> into a fruit; can you? By doing some sort of> exercise? You see, this hatha> yoga was practised in India thousands of years back> when we had another> system of life, where students were sent to the> guru, to the teacher and the> students lived with the teacher in the forest. And> some students were> selected and they were given this self-knowledge.> But the first thing in the> real Patanjali Yoga is you must have is ishwa> pradita you must establish> your God. If you have not established your God it is> just people becoming>

actors and actresses, that is all. It is never so> important. All theses so> called exercises are just like different corrections> of your different> centres , physical corrections, and they are to be> used at a particular time> (for) a particular trouble. If, you see, you have> troubles, for example, of> the neck, what is the use doing exercises for the> stomach. But the way> people do this hatha yoga these days is like taking> the whole medicine box> at the same time. By that, they thin down. And the> thinning down they think> is very healthy. And this thinning down is not> correct because the kind of> thinning down actually comes because they become dry> people. Alright, you> put attention because you are paying attention to> your health. But health is> not everything. They become very fidgety. They> become very nervy. They may>

be very hot-tempered or they can be terrifying, you> see. Or very big bores.> They could divorce their wife, beat their children.> All kinds of things they> can do. We had such yogis in our India in ancient> times. They curse people> to make them die. Is this the way to achieve yoga ?>> Interviewer: So this misconception of yoga, or> malpractice.>> Shri Mataji: No, this is not malpractice because,> you see, I am a Mother. I> will give them benefit of the doubt. They did not> have the complete> knowledge so they went on one side and another went> on the other side. Like,> you see, devotion ¡V dancing and singing in the name> of God. They go mad> with it. I¡¦ve seen them go mad with it. That's> another extreme. One extreme> of this side is to be a sort of fanatic or an> aesthetic and other extremes> start. But God is

in-between. He's not in extremes>> Interviewer: People, being what they are, tend to be> distrustful and some> people might say, well how are we to know she won't> rip us off or lead us> down another blind path ?>> Shri Mataji: Very true. I would be very happy if> they would not trust> people. If they are mesmerized they are. Very much.> If any one asks for> money then they are much more for (money). There's a> competition. Recently> we had somebody in India who has made 2 crores of> rupees out of such people.> It's not that they do not trust but they are stupid.> They have always> doubted the people who are real and always trusted> people who are unreal.> They are being stupid about it. There are certain> things by which we can> judge a person if he's (real) or not. First and> foremost thing is, you> cannot sell God.

You cannot make money out of God.> You cannot sell your> vibrations. You cannot sell these things. This is> very precious. You cannot> value it. It is invaluable. It is God's love. So you> cannot have a regular> organised religion whereby you sell it in the> marketplace. It is shameful> and so insulting. It is so shameful. You do it> because you love them. They> are part and parcel of your being. That is why you> just cure them because> you are part and parcel of your being. You don't> say, if I cure this hand> I'll give a little relief, do I pay that hand ? Or> do I feel any obligation.> You just do it because it's part and parcel of your> being so it has to be> compassion. It can not be money and all these things> that are going around.> People are more enamoured by these things. And all> the circuses will have> the hypocrites

and dress up in all kinds of dress.> People are very> impressed by that. You see, people care more for> superficial things. If you,> sort of, sit in a square and sit down in one loin> cloth and the snow is> falling, (they will say) oh, such a great saint has> come. What do we have to> do with ascetics when we are living in a household.> If they are ascetics we> should not have anything to do with (them). We are> householders and> householders are the best people for Sahaja Yoga And> those who have run away> from their lives, let them go to the Himalayas and> station themselves. They> have no reason to come and live like parasites on> our earnings. They are> parasites of the worst type. Dealing in opium,> (using) other people's money.> That's what they are. And they have no self-respect.> Some of them are so> cruel. They have made

people so poor and they have> taken away all the money.> Not only that, there are smugglers, doesn't matter.> But they have put such> spirits into people, they are falling of epilepsy.> They have troubles,> kidney trouble. They are having all kinds of> trouble. These horrible people,> they are Satanic.>> Interviewer: You are devoting yourself completely> then to your mission ,> mind, body and finances.>> Shri Mataji: You see, I would say that I'm only one> person. I’m not heart> and soul and all that, so whatever I do, I do the> whole thing. I’m not> separated. There's no question. As far as finances> are concerned I don't> need much finances. And my travelling and all that,> mostly my husband pays> for me. Sometimes even these people who call me pay> for it. I think my> husband should not pay for their salvation.

It's a> bit too much. They will> also become parasitic. Even that's to be paid. It's> alright if they pay me> for my travelling at the most. My needs are very> little and by Gods grace,> in this life I am not a carpenter's wife. But I am a> wife of a well-to-do> gentleman. It's alright.>> Interviewer: You are now on your mission to try to> inform more of the world> about Sahaja Yoga. How many followers do you have> presently ?>> Shri Mataji: I have no record. I have no record. I> mean if you ask me now,> for example, this gentleman (points to a Sahaja> Yogi), you met him here. I> would never, say, I would never remember that he's> one of them or something> because I don't keep any record. You don't count> every leaf you give light.> You just don't do it. You just like to give it,> that's all; don't count. For>

what are you going to count ? You don't want to take> anything so why count?> You take a person who just wants to give. Now these> flowers are giving> fragrance. Do they count how many people they have> given fragrance ? (Anyone> who comes) will take fragrance from them. Their job> is to give fragrance so> they are giving fragrance. It's very simple.>> Interviewer: Won't you destroy some of that giving> factor if you put> yourself on a pedestal, which is probably what you> might be doing if you> start to approach a wider audience ,a larger group> of people ?>> Shri Mataji: I never think of these things. It> always worked out in such a> way that I have managed so far. The other day we had> a village of 6000> people and they all got Realisation. Just like> lightening. All of them. Can> you believe it ? They all got

Realisation, so that's> not the thing. You see,> think of this Divine Power that converts flowers> into fruits. Now the flower> of a mango will become a mango. How these things are> worked out. Into what> details, how delicately. How every character is> preserved. If I'm talking of> that power, why should I ever (count) ?>> Interviewer: This Divine Power, this God ¡V why did> he put us here ?>> Shri Mataji: Oh, he loved you so much. That's why he> put us here. And in> just a little transition you had to learn what is> good and what is bad.> That's all just to make you grow a little, that's> all. In this you all got> so frightened. Its was nothing to be frightened. All> he has given us is such> a nice thing (but) you don't want to see. We don't> want to see anything. You> see, that's the trouble.>> Interviewer:

But why even put us in such a> situation. Why not just create> us like Himself, or Herself?>> Shri Mataji: Or whatever it is. The thing is you> have to grow, isn't it ?> Now, it would be like a little bird (which) is born> to the mother bird. Now> the mother bird has to teach the little bird how to> fly, isn't it ? Now she> makes it fly by calling the little bird. And the> bird says, why not make me> like that ¡V as you are ? Then how will you learn.> You have to master it.> How will you do it ? Unless and until you learn> yourself ,I mean, one can> cook for you and put it into your mouth but you have> to taste it. It is for> you to taste. If you don't have any taste, how will> you enjoy ? Just develop> your taste buds that He has to make. You have to> grow, is necessary.>> Interviewer: What are we growing towards

?>> Shri Mataji: You are going to be the lights of God.> Beacons of light of> God's love that is going to flow in this world.>> Interviewer: Are we eventually supposed to grow to> be just like Him ?>> Shri Mataji: Yes, very much. He's made you in His> image, of course, in His> Collectivity and all that to become the ocean by not> becoming the ocean,> just falling into it.>> Interviewer: How do we seem to grow, or do we really> grow? After all these> years we haven't learnt very much about war.>> Shri Mataji: War. I mean, whatever you say, we> haven't learnt about war.> What we haven't learnt, I mean, that's a very good> situation that man has> reached, that he has not learnt very much because if> God had told you before> that you haven't learnt anything you would not have> believed it because you>

have freedom to decide. You haven't learnt much.> Now, we haven't learnt, so> now you settle down. That's one of the styles of God> , to make human beings> learn otherwise they would not. If you had created> an atom bomb, you would> never have learned. What nonsense we have done by> all our experimentation> with science ¡t means that it is like a Satan on> your head. So you know what> you have done to yourself, so you come back. All> these shocks are important> otherwise you may never go to God, never think of> it, because this freedom> gives you ego and people become so ego-orientated.> There are so many people> who just don't believe in God. They think it's> trash.>> Interviewer: Are we going to have so much freedom> that eventually we'll> destroy ourselves ?>> Shri Mataji: No, we can never destroy. You see God's>

creation. He has> created you and He's not the one who is going to> destroy His own creation.> You don't do anything. You just don't do anything.> You see, this is the> wrong impression human beings have got. What they do> is a dead work. Now> see, the flowers are dead so you have arranged them.> The tree is dead so you> have made the furniture, that is all. Dead to the> dead. Any living work can> you do ? Any living work ? Nothing. Only after> Realisation you can do it, by> awakening the kundalini. Then you can do it. Then> you are entitled to become> the master.>> Interviewer: Then we can create things ?>> Shri Mataji: Yes of course. You start creating. You> start creating a new> personality by raising the kundalini.>> Interviewer: What is achieved once this awakening> happens ? I mean, why are> we better for

it ?>> Shri Mataji: You see like I told you we are like a> light. Now when you are> Enlightened what happens to you. You see the light.> In the light you see> yourself. All confusion is finished. You know the> Truth, and you feel so> blissful and happy because you know everything.> There is no chaos , no> nothing. You are so relaxed and the power starts> flowing through you all the> time. It is never lost and you see in that light> whatever is good and what> ever is bad. And you understand everything so well.> And when you become the> light, what do you do ? Is to give the light to> others so that they should> be Enlightened also. But this dead light cannot give> light to others in such> a way as that light can give to others. But you can,> once you are Realised,> you can make others Enlightened. The whole confusion> of

disintegration,> quarrels and political problems and these economic> problems and religion,> everything will subside. Absolutely, when you are> Enlightened. Human beings> have to be Enlightened because they are in> darkness. That's why all these> problems are there.>> Interviewer: What the world as we know it cease to> exist if we all become> Enlightened in such a way ?>> Shri Mataji: ..it will be flowering then. It would> take another shape of> beauty and enjoyment, happiness.>> Interviewer: The heaven that is so talked about in> religious books..>> Shri Mataji: Yes, that's it. That's promised is to> be brought in.Everything> they have said is to be proved. All that is the job> Sahaja Yoga has to do.> That's why it is the Maha Yoga. It's the great Yoga.>> Interviewer: How long is it going to take to get

us> there?>> Shri Mataji: You see it depends on human beings, how> they work it out.> That's all. It's for them to decide now. You see,> they have to take a> decision.>> (recording ceases at that point)>

 

Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here

[Guest guest]

Dear Gautam,

 

Thank you for this spiritually nourishing in-depth interview which i have never

read before.

 

i will also re-post this at Shri Adi Shakti Forum for future reference.

 

This is becoming a forum of great sharing. We can all grow spiritually in leaps

and bounds by sharing what Shri Mataji has to say to all of us.

 

As Shri Mataji has travelled and spoken the world over, there is always

something else we may have missed.

 

Thank you again,

 

Jai Shri Mataji!

 

Violet

 

 

, gautam thapa

<sahajgautam> wrote:

>

> Radio Interview with Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Hong

> > Kong 1992

> >

> > Interviewer: Shri Mataji, from the information I've

> > read about you, you were

> > born in India, a Christian. How was that ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: I was born a Christian, that's all.

> >

> > Interviewer: There can't be many Christian families

> > in that country.

> >

> > Shri Mataji: There are lots of Christians. Apart

> > from that I was born a

> > Christian.

> >

> > Interviewer: Which part of India do you truly come

> > from ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Just the centre of India. Absolutely

> > the centre of India.

> >

> > Interviewer: Is there anything specific about this

> > being the central point?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: It is the central point because I have

> > to be in the centre to

> > do my job. That's why I was born in the centre of

> > India.

> >

> > Interviewer: When you were a child, though, being

> > born in the centre of

> > India, did that mean anything to you, as a young

> > girl ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: I did not know it was the centre or

> > anything to be discovered

> > about it. I just knew what my mission was, what I

> > was. I knew I was to be

> > born at the right point. I took all these things for

> > granted. I knew this

> > was to be so. I knew this very well.

> >

> > Interviewer: How old were you when you realised that

> > you had this mission ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: All my life. As you realise you are a

> > human. In the same way I

> > knew I had to do all this. I knew I was different.

> >

> > Interviewer: And did you start fulfilling this

> > mission ever since you can

> > remember ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Yes of course. I knew I had healing

> > powers and I knew I had

> > curing powers. I knew I could raise the kundalini;

> > all that I knew. But I

> > knew I wanted to do something to know all the

> > combinations and permutations

> > of the problems of human beings. That's how I

> > studied that. I wanted to find

> > out a proper time (that) I could find out a method

> > by (which) a mass

> > happening could happen¡ Kthey could achieve it. And

> > on the 5th of May I was

> > sitting near the sea there. I decided that it should

> > happen and it worked

> > out that the last centre as they call it, the limbic

> > area above, that

> > resides the opening for the Divine, what we can call

> > what we call in the

> > bible as the baptism. The baptism we had was just a

> > ritual. The real

> > baptism is that when the residual force within us

> > called as kundalini, when

> > it rises and pierces the fontanelle bone area, which

> > is a soft bone you had

> > as a child, that time is the real baptism and this

> > baptism was to be

> > achieved.

> > But I wanted to make a way by which we could make a

> > mass happening, because,

> > you see, if it happened to one person, say, Christ

> > was a Realised Soul, a

> > great incarnation he was the Son of God no doubt,

> > but nobody recognized Him.

> > And when He tried to explain they would not

> > understand because he was at

> > such a height that they could not understand what He

> > was seeing, what He was

> > talking about and ultimately . it was very wrong to

> > crucify a man of that

> > calibre. He was the incarnation.

> >

> > Interviewer: So it was on the 5th of May, of what

> > particular year ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: 1970

> >

> > Interviewer: Let's go back to when you were a child.

> > Was there anything

> > about the way you were brought up that might have

> > led you to ..

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Very much. From my very childhood I

> > knew I was to be conceived

> > by my mother. They told me lots of things. What

> > happened to my mother . But

> > one of the main things I remember now was this. She

> > wanted to go and see a

> > tiger when she was eight months pregnant and my

> > father said that's funny

> > that you want to go and see a tiger at this advanced

> > stage of pregnancy.

> > But she said, No, I must go and see a tiger. And so

> > my father was a big

> > well-known hunter in those days and one of the Rajas

> > sent a word saying

> > there was, a man-eater perhaps in the forest and we

> > would like you to come

> > and help us. See now I've got a message and now I

> > have to go. And my mother

> > said, Alright, if you have to go, I am coming with

> > you.

> > How will you come at this stage ?

> > No, I must come to see the tiger moving. Then he

> > went there and she also. We

> > use a kind of platform on top. They build it in a

> > tree . And these

> > villagers, you see, they drive the animal towards

> > the hunter. My father and

> > mother always sitting on top of the (platform), and

> > suddenly the

> > big, huge tiger appeared, and my father said he

> > had never seen such a big

> > one before, it was coming in the moonlight and

> > walking very stealthily in

> > his own grace and dignity. And my mother was so

> > enamored, you see, that she

> > just looked at it. She was so happy as if her child

> > has seen. She felt very

> > happy, she said. My father wanted to kill the animal

> > and mother said, No, if

> > you are going to kill the animal I am going to jump.

> > You are not going to

> > kill the tiger. Then the tiger disappeared. They

> > don't know where the tiger

> > went. So my father knew that it would be some

> > powerful personality that is

> > going to be born. And my father, being a Realised

> > Soul, knew it was

> > something extraordinary.

> >

> > Interviewer: What about when you were actually a

> > child ? Did they treat you

> > as something special and teach you some special

> > things to help on this

> > mission of yours ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: No it was not like that. You see it was

> > a very free sort of an

> > expression of a personality. People accepted. I was

> > very loving,

> > compassionate and generous. I was a unique person to

> > have as a child, but it

> > was different; but only thing I would say that my

> > father understood me much

> > better because he was a Realised Soul. When grew up

> > he told me, no use

> > talking about it to anyone. First of all find a

> > method by which people get

> > en masse realisation. That is your work. As you

> > know, unless and until you

> > find that, there's no use talking about it. They'll

> > create another Koran or

> > Bible , what's the use. You must give them an

> > experience or they will never

> > understand.

> >

> > Interviewer: Did you continue this idea of yours of

> > trying to get this

> > message going through your work with Mahatma Gandhi?

> >

> >

> > Shri Mataji: No, that time it was very different. It

> > was an emergency. In a

> > small way I contributed. He loved me very much. He

> > used to call me Nepali.

> > It is our face you see ,because I have a broad face.

> > He always used to call

> > me Nepali. But he was a man born for an emergency

> > and when India wanted to

> > be politically independent. But there was this thing

> > And a political leader

> > need not worry about Spirit and Religion, but he

> > considered our country to

> > be a land of Yoga. He always based his theories and

> > philosophies and

> > activities on the fibre of the people. We are a very

> > religious people and

> > how to create an atmosphere of satisfaction in the

> > people. He had that

> > within him. But he didn't talk of Realisation and as

> > a when I was a little

> > child of 7 years I used to play about with him and

> > (he) was very fond of me

> > so I would make some orange juice for him and he

> > would discuss with me small

> > things and remember once I told him, Why do you make

> > everyone get up so

> > early ? If you want to get up you can, but why do

> > you make everyone get up

> > so early ? It's all right for me, but why do you

> > have to make everyone ? (He

> > said) everyone should be made to get up we are

> > passing through a crisis. We

> > have to fight the British and get our independence

> > and if people are

> > lethargic how are we going to do it. So we have to

> > be disciplined and we

> > must have discipline and it will be all right. And

> > then I told him we need

> > to have inner discipline and so he knew that I was a

> > wise person. And he

> > used to love me and respect me in a very fatherly

> > manner. He would discuss

> > things with me. He impressed me by many things. He

> > had a sense of integrity

> > within himself. He was absolutely honest to himself.

> > That was something I

> > appreciated. He never cheated himself. This is the

> > greatest thing about him.

> > In money matters, anything, he was so integrated.

> > What he said he did, he

> > criticised himself.But for him Realisation was not

> > the problem at that time.

> > But after independence we should have taken to

> > Realisation. That was the

> > main problem. But after Realisation we had problems

> > of , say, partition. And

> > the diversion of the whole attention was on the

> > wrong things. We had to

> > solve this problem and nobody thought of Realisation

> > at that time. It should

> > be so.

> >

> > Interviewer: How much do think Mahatma Gandhi

> > influenced the way your Sahaja

> > Yoga developed, your way of thinking now, your

> > technique maybe ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: You see it was no question of influence

> > because you see this is

> > another realm I am talking about. Sahaja Yoga takes

> > you to another realm

> > where these problems do not exist. These problems

> > work out with Divine

> > power, not with human powers. And Divine power is

> > there and they work it out

> > eventually in such a smooth manner that there is no

> > need to use these human

> > powers. But his main contribution, I think, was to

> > establish balance in

> > people. Balance in people was the main thing. And

> > make them more Indian and

> > to take out all the slavish mentality that had

> > trickled down into us, make

> > us feel our own self-neglect all these things were

> > there. But the realm in

> > which I was different from his. So the question of

> > influence doesn't come

> > in. But, I would say that, certain things were

> > influenced my choice, say,

> > of different prayers. I told him according to the

> > different centres within

> > us. I said you do this one, then this one, and he

> > said, Alright, it's a good

> > idea, and he changed. It was so smooth and silently

> > done that it was not

> > made obvious to anyone that we had any rapport on

> > these things nor did he

> > ever ask me about Spirit nor did he ever meditate.

> > He did not meditate

> > because he was not Realised. At that time he was not

> > a Realised Soul. His

> > main attention was for this and he will be born

> > again and he will be

> > Realised. He will be born Realised because he was

> > very, very great. He was a

> > Great Soul, no doubt. He was extremely great as a

> > human being. But

> > Realisation is very different. It's another realm

> > into which human beings

> > go. His meditation was to ponder about things and to

> > guide oneself, but not

> > the kind of meditation where we become thoughtlessly

> > aware. It's a different

> > dimension in your awareness.

> >

> > Interviewer: Is this then what Self-Realisation

> > means, what you mean as a

> > Realised Soul?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Yes, Self-Realisation means when the

> > Self, which is talked

> > about in all the scriptures, starts emitting its

> > manifestation in our

> > conscious mind means that time when we become aware

> > of it. To this extent

> > our central nervous system starts recording the

> > power of our Spirit, of

> > oneself. And we start feeling the breeze-like

> > vibrations of the Spirit which

> > is called as in the Bible as the Cool Breeze of the

> > Holy Spirit.

> >

> > Interviewer: You're saying them that when a person

> > is Realised he feels some

> > actual physical things.

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Yes, the energy that's flowing through

> > him he can feel it..

> > It's flowing through his body. Not only that but he

> > becomes. It's not

> > lecturing or any brain-washing. He actually becomes

> > collectively conscious,

> > means in his awareness he can start feeling another

> > person's centres and

> > also his own centres and he can start correcting it.

> >

> > Interviewer: Is it like finding what one can, or

> > what people have loosely

> > described as the Soul inside one ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Yes, but they're quite confused people.

> > They don't know what is

> > Soul, what is Spirit. But these are all precise

> > things. Soul is the thing

> > which is not only Spirit but is the body, the

> > personality. Except for the

> > element of earth in it. We are made of five elements

> > out of which the

> > element of earth drops out; then you become the

> > Soul, because you cannot be

> > seen but you exist in another plane.

> >

> > Interviewer: Was it before you decided to start,

> > truly started, your mission

> > you also took some courses in medicine ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Yes, I did some medicine because I knew

> > I had to talk to

> > doctors and explain to them what is all this because

> > I knew, but I didn't

> > know what to call it because the names are given by

> > human beings. So I had

> > to study. I also studied one dictionary on

> > psychology because I knew I had

> > to talk to psychologists, doctors and scientists who

> > have to know about it

> > to say what they call it, you see.

> >

> > Interviewer: The theory that scientists say that man

> > came from a little cell

> > from heaven knows where. How did you feel about

> > those?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: It's a fact, it's a fact. He (man) came

> > through a cell, evolved

> > through a cell. How did he evolve ? Why did he

> > evolve ? What is the purpose

> > of his life ? (It) is not all answered by science.

> > What is the power that

> > makes you evolve ? Also, that is not answered. So in

> > Sahaja Yoga you know

> > all that ¡V not only you evolve but with the same

> > power you go higher.

> >

> > Interviewer: What is your theory about that then ?

> > Why are we here, or, why

> > are we so long in the process ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: You see, anything that you create, even

> > human beings for

> > example, you have created things. (A) beautiful lamp

> > is to give us the

> > light, isn't it, the power. So that's how God has

> > created us, to give His

> > power to us that we feel him and know Him in our

> > awareness and understand

> > and we emit His powers and enjoy it. To say in the

> > words of Christ, To enter

> > into the kingdom of God.

> >

> > Interviewer: Are you talking about the same God as

> > every religion talks

> > about.

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Absolutely, there's nothing else.

> >

> > Interviewer: Is Sahaja Yoga a sort of new religion ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: No, it is the integration, it's the

> > Enlightenment that proves

> > all the religions and all the incarnations and their

> > integration.

> >

> > Interviewer: How does it prove it ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: So, in the sense that you can see, in

> > the room there are many

> > things. When it's dark you see this thing as

> > something different and another

> > thing and you say it is something different, (or)

> > this is mine, this is

> > mine, this is the truth, because you see that and

> > another sees another

> > thing. But in the light you see the whole thing

> > belongs to the same. Sahaja

> > Yoga just gives you that light of the Spirit by

> > which you start seeing it's

> > all just the same. For example, now, once you are

> > connected to the Spirit

> > you start getting those cool vibrations in your

> > hand. Now, you want to ask,

> > Now is there God. Immediately you start getting a

> > lot of cool vibrations

> > coming to you. The questions are answered like this.

> > You start feeling them,

> > and every question. If you ever have a problem, you

> > can ask and you can know

> > because you are connected to the Absolute. All such

> > questions you are

> > asking. Say you are a Realised Soul. You can get the

> > answers on your hands

> > and you can know if this is true. Whether Christ

> > was. Now they say He was

> > the Son of God. People challenge, I can understand

> > that because they were

> > not Realised Souls, that's why they couldn't

> > understand that time. But when

> > you're Realised, you just ask, Was He the Son of God

> > ? and you'll see that

> > the vibrations will start flowing. You'll know who

> > was really a real saint

> > or a prophet, a fake one. Everything you can find

> > out through these

> > vibrations because a rapport is established now you

> > are connected. Like this

> > (microphone) is connected to the mains. Unless and

> > until this speaker is

> > connected to the mains it is useless. You are to be

> > connected to the mains.

> > Unless and until this instrument, that is created

> > from amoeba to this stage,

> > is connected to the mains you will not know

> > yourself. You are not going to

> > know your meaning, neither are you going to know the

> > function for which you

> > are created.

> >

> > Interviewer: Surely it's a matter of what stage of

> > your development that you

> > can even start to questions about these things.

> >

> > Shri Mataji: No, not necessarily, because the time

> > has come. There's no need

> > to have a question. I find it everywhere. I find it

> > has different styles.

> > For example some countries have problems they are

> > facing. They are so

> > speedy. Cancer is one of them which can be cured

> > after Sahaja Yoga,

> > otherwise you cannot cure cancer. So many things are

> > there. Developing

> > countries have their own problems, then they start

> > thinking, What about us ?

> > How are we? For example, India, we have problems,

> > they get so confused. They

> > don't know how to solve these problems. They try to

> > solve one problem, so

> > they start thinking about it, now what is it, what's

> > going wrong? You do not

> > have the light. You are walking in the darkness. You

> > are bumping at each

> > other for nothing at all.

> >

> > Interviewer: Will people be able to handle this

> > Sahaja Yoga do you think ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Yes, by all means. You see once you are

> > Self-Realised you have

> > to, a little bit, establish yourself ¡V that's true.

> > You take about, at the

> > most, one month or two months. Once you are

> > established you become so

> > powerful and so wise. The vibrations tell you and

> > you just don't do wrong

> > things. If you start doing it you don't like it

> > because you start getting

> > the pain in the fingers. Something happens to you ¡V

> > you enjoy this, so

> > blissful.

> >

> > Interviewer: Don't you think that perhaps it might

> > go the same way, say, for

> > instance, if you talk about Christ teaching His love

> > idea and how we should

> > love everybody, that some people just didn't accept

> > that.

> >

> > Shri Mataji: It does not matter. But that may not be

> > possible now because

> > who cannot accept will have problems. They will have

> > to accept or they will

> > have problems. Gradually perhaps they have to accept

> > it. This is because

> > this is the solution to all of the problems; because

> > you have problems you

> > have to accept it, otherwise human beings are easy

> > things to accept it.

> > Christ, you see, at that time, didn't come for

> > Self-Realisation. He just

> > came to prove that there is Spiritual power.

> > Resurrection, which cannot be

> > killed, is His message. My message is not

> > Resurrection or anything. Mine is

> > your Resurrection .Resurrection of the whole human

> > race, (it) is their

> > evolution. (This) is my message. This is my job.

> >

> > Interviewer: How are you going to convince

> > hard-boiled cynics that this is

> > the right way to go about things ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: You see, this nature will work it out

> > in so many ways. These

> > cynics are there. They are cynics because of certain

> > reasons. There would

> > not be so, but they are conditioned. You can find

> > out because they must be

> > having problems with that, mental problems, also

> > problems with the family.

> > Cynics will always have problems with the family. I

> > do not say that they

> > always have problems; some say that only those who

> > are happy can come to

> > Sahaja Yoga. Not necessarily so. There is a category

> > of seekers. There is a

> > category of people who are seekers. First I have to

> > worry about them those

> > who are real seekers. It's a category. And that's

> > why they are unhappy

> > because they are a different category. They will not

> > be satisfied with

> > anything. They will try everything. They will try to

> > get some money, to get

> > power. They'll try this, that. But they'll not be

> > happy, because they're a

> > different category. Then they will seek God, so

> > they'll seek again, God.

> > They'll go to wrong people and spend money here,

> > there. Do this, that.

> > Everything they'll try, and then they'll find out.

> > Still they haven't found

> > out what they were (seeking), so they'll come to

> > Sahaja Yoga. So, first, my

> > attention is on the seekers. It's a category. As I

> > told you these people

> > know that William Blake has written about , he calls

> > them, men of God. And

> > these men of God, he says, will become prophets. And

> > these prophets have a

> > special power by which they will be giving

> > Realisation to others and making

> > them into prophets.

> >

> > Interviewer: Are you saying then that William Blake

> > was a Realised Soul.

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Yes, of course.

> >

> > Interviewer: How can one be a Realised Soul when

> > you're here now.

> >

> > Shri Mataji: (laughing) You see, there were many

> > Realised Souls before also,

> > and it's the power (which) is all-pervading; is

> > eternal, is all-existing.All

> > of these great Saints like we can say John the

> > Baptist was a Realised Soul,

> > Shakespeare was a great Realised Soul. He was

> > tremendous, the way he tried

> > to show the futility of life. He definitely was a

> > Realised Soul. And this

> > you will know by feeling the vibrations of these

> > people, whether they were

> > Realised or not. You can feel the vibrations that

> > they were Realised Souls.

> > And these Realised Souls (existed) thousands of

> > years back. Like on a tree,

> > there are only one or two flowers to begin with,

> > then gradually the blossom

> > times come and there are many flowers and there are

> > many fruits for growth.

> >

> > Interviewer: What does it take to be a Realised

> > Soul. Is it a mature person,

> > or is it somebody who appreciates mankind for what

> > it is ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: No, it's not a mental status that's

> > important. It is the desire

> > within you, the pure desire to be one with God, to

> > be one with beyond. This

> > pure desire; it may exist, also the desire that you

> > see it's not everything.

> > You get fed up. It's a drama and you get bored. You

> > try everything, but you

> > are not happy about it. You see, it's the pure

> > desire, be one with your

> > Spirit. You may not be educated. You may be a street

> > urchin. You could be

> > living in a remote place but still the pure desire

> > may be in you completely

> > existing and that works it out. But you are not

> > aware of the pure desire,

> > but it works out. But you are not aware of the pure

> > desire, but that works

> > it out because you do not feel happy with other

> > things you feel frustrated.

> > And what ever you try, so what ! It's an economic

> > science. You see, in

> > particular, you may satisfy a want but in general

> > they are not satiable. So

> > even the matter teaches you.

> >

> > Interviewer: Two very interesting thoughts come to

> > my head at this point.

> > One, is it through being Realised that one gets

> > knowledge of what's on the

> > other side of death, as it were. And, two, whether

> > one really, through this

> > Realisation, that one finds a little bit of God

> > inside oneself.

> >

> > Shri Mataji: That's the point. Second point is

> > correct. You find God within

> > yourself then your priorities change about knowing

> > about things. You don't

> > want to know what is beyond life because you come in

> > the present. You are

> > not worried about the past and the future but that

> > also you know because

> > gradually your vision improves. You start seeing

> > what happens after death.

> > You see the patients coming to you and you start

> > seeing they are spirits and

> > this and that and they are possessed by the spirits

> > and then you talk and

> > find out such a lot about them, what all that is. So

> > it comes to you as an

> > experimentation with your truth that you have found

> > out. But the main thing

> > that happens to you is that feeling that

> > universality; just start feeling in

> > the sense (that) it becomes a part and parcel of

> > your awareness. Just a part

> > and parcel of your awareness. As a human being you

> > have a special awareness

> > for flowers, a special awareness for cleanliness.

> > Animals don't have. In the

> > same way you go to the point where you just become

> > aware of that you start

> > feeling them around. You start feeling what is right

> > and wrong. For example,

> > if I start telling people, this is sin, then they

> > will do it a hundred

> > times. If I give them Realisation they will not just

> > do it. They will see

> > it. In the night, I am sleeping in this room and

> > there is this snake up here

> > and someone will say there is a snake. And I say, no

> > it's not there, I can't

> > see it. But if you put on the light I'll just know

> > it's a snake and I will

> > run away from it.

> >

> > Interviewer: How does one know what's right and

> > what's wrong though ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: You see, because you have not found the

> > Absolute that's why

> > there's a problem. But if you have found the

> > Absolute, you'll just know it.

> > But it is not knowledge by your rationality, but in

> > your being. You just

> > feel it on your fingers. You just know what is

> > happening to another person.

> > You start feeling it. Just feeling it is not good.

> > You know something is not

> > right in this house. There's some centres catching

> > on your fingers. You ask

> > someone, you find there is something wrong.

> >

> > Interviewer: You're talking about feelings things

> > now through the fingers, a

> > part of the body. How did you come about this

> > particular idea, it is through

> > the fingers that one has this knowledge of oneself?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: I knew all these things beforehand. It

> > is too (laughing) to

> > say, now, it is true what to say now? I knew this.

> > This is my knowledge, as

> > you say. I knew all this.

> >

> > Interviewer: You feel you are sent here by God or,

> > say, as the next prophet

> > in line ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: I don't want to say all that because I

> > don't want to get

> > crucified for nothing at all. No, I am quite wise.

> > But there is something

> > special, no doubt, something very great, according

> > to human beings. But for

> > me, it's nothing great. It's just the same. Say the

> > sun gives you light.

> > What's so great about it? It has light, so it gives

> > you light. Supposing I

> > have this power I cannot do, I cannot even play my

> > own radio. I am so

> > hopelessly bad. But I knew Kundalini. I know how to

> > do this work. There's

> > nothing to feel I am higher or lower. This is my

> > job. I am here for that

> > job, finished, that is all.

> >

> > Interviewer: A lot of people in the last few years

> > particularly have come up

> > who have ideas along your lines. A lot of yogas, a

> > lot of yogis. People have

> > got this misconception about yoga.

> >

> > Shri Mataji: You see, yoga, in simple words, means

> > union with God, with

> > Spirit. All other things are nonsense. You see, you

> > stand on your head, you

> > do this thing. It's a spontaneous process. It's a

> > living process of the

> > living God. It has to happen within you, like the

> > sprouting of the seed.

> > Now, if you stand on your head, can you sprout a

> > seed? Can you turn a flower

> > into a fruit; can you? By doing some sort of

> > exercise? You see, this hatha

> > yoga was practised in India thousands of years back

> > when we had another

> > system of life, where students were sent to the

> > guru, to the teacher and the

> > students lived with the teacher in the forest. And

> > some students were

> > selected and they were given this self-knowledge.

> > But the first thing in the

> > real Patanjali Yoga is you must have is ishwa

> > pradita you must establish

> > your God. If you have not established your God it is

> > just people becoming

> > actors and actresses, that is all. It is never so

> > important. All theses so

> > called exercises are just like different corrections

> > of your different

> > centres , physical corrections, and they are to be

> > used at a particular time

> > (for) a particular trouble. If, you see, you have

> > troubles, for example, of

> > the neck, what is the use doing exercises for the

> > stomach. But the way

> > people do this hatha yoga these days is like taking

> > the whole medicine box

> > at the same time. By that, they thin down. And the

> > thinning down they think

> > is very healthy. And this thinning down is not

> > correct because the kind of

> > thinning down actually comes because they become dry

> > people. Alright, you

> > put attention because you are paying attention to

> > your health. But health is

> > not everything. They become very fidgety. They

> > become very nervy. They may

> > be very hot-tempered or they can be terrifying, you

> > see. Or very big bores.

> > They could divorce their wife, beat their children.

> > All kinds of things they

> > can do. We had such yogis in our India in ancient

> > times. They curse people

> > to make them die. Is this the way to achieve yoga ?

> >

> > Interviewer: So this misconception of yoga, or

> > malpractice.

> >

> > Shri Mataji: No, this is not malpractice because,

> > you see, I am a Mother. I

> > will give them benefit of the doubt. They did not

> > have the complete

> > knowledge so they went on one side and another went

> > on the other side. Like,

> > you see, devotion ¡V dancing and singing in the name

> > of God. They go mad

> > with it. I¡¦ve seen them go mad with it. That's

> > another extreme. One extreme

> > of this side is to be a sort of fanatic or an

> > aesthetic and other extremes

> > start. But God is in-between. He's not in extremes

> >

> > Interviewer: People, being what they are, tend to be

> > distrustful and some

> > people might say, well how are we to know she won't

> > rip us off or lead us

> > down another blind path ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Very true. I would be very happy if

> > they would not trust

> > people. If they are mesmerized they are. Very much.

> > If any one asks for

> > money then they are much more for (money). There's a

> > competition. Recently

> > we had somebody in India who has made 2 crores of

> > rupees out of such people.

> > It's not that they do not trust but they are stupid.

> > They have always

> > doubted the people who are real and always trusted

> > people who are unreal.

> > They are being stupid about it. There are certain

> > things by which we can

> > judge a person if he's (real) or not. First and

> > foremost thing is, you

> > cannot sell God. You cannot make money out of God.

> > You cannot sell your

> > vibrations. You cannot sell these things. This is

> > very precious. You cannot

> > value it. It is invaluable. It is God's love. So you

> > cannot have a regular

> > organised religion whereby you sell it in the

> > marketplace. It is shameful

> > and so insulting. It is so shameful. You do it

> > because you love them. They

> > are part and parcel of your being. That is why you

> > just cure them because

> > you are part and parcel of your being. You don't

> > say, if I cure this hand

> > I'll give a little relief, do I pay that hand ? Or

> > do I feel any obligation.

> > You just do it because it's part and parcel of your

> > being so it has to be

> > compassion. It can not be money and all these things

> > that are going around.

> > People are more enamoured by these things. And all

> > the circuses will have

> > the hypocrites and dress up in all kinds of dress.

> > People are very

> > impressed by that. You see, people care more for

> > superficial things. If you,

> > sort of, sit in a square and sit down in one loin

> > cloth and the snow is

> > falling, (they will say) oh, such a great saint has

> > come. What do we have to

> > do with ascetics when we are living in a household.

> > If they are ascetics we

> > should not have anything to do with (them). We are

> > householders and

> > householders are the best people for Sahaja Yoga And

> > those who have run away

> > from their lives, let them go to the Himalayas and

> > station themselves. They

> > have no reason to come and live like parasites on

> > our earnings. They are

> > parasites of the worst type. Dealing in opium,

> > (using) other people's money.

> > That's what they are. And they have no self-respect.

> > Some of them are so

> > cruel. They have made people so poor and they have

> > taken away all the money.

> > Not only that, there are smugglers, doesn't matter.

> > But they have put such

> > spirits into people, they are falling of epilepsy.

> > They have troubles,

> > kidney trouble. They are having all kinds of

> > trouble. These horrible people,

> > they are Satanic.

> >

> > Interviewer: You are devoting yourself completely

> > then to your mission ,

> > mind, body and finances.

> >

> > Shri Mataji: You see, I would say that I'm only one

> > person. I'm not heart

> > and soul and all that, so whatever I do, I do the

> > whole thing. I'm not

> > separated. There's no question. As far as finances

> > are concerned I don't

> > need much finances. And my travelling and all that,

> > mostly my husband pays

> > for me. Sometimes even these people who call me pay

> > for it. I think my

> > husband should not pay for their salvation. It's a

> > bit too much. They will

> > also become parasitic. Even that's to be paid. It's

> > alright if they pay me

> > for my travelling at the most. My needs are very

> > little and by Gods grace,

> > in this life I am not a carpenter's wife. But I am a

> > wife of a well-to-do

> > gentleman. It's alright.

> >

> > Interviewer: You are now on your mission to try to

> > inform more of the world

> > about Sahaja Yoga. How many followers do you have

> > presently ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: I have no record. I have no record. I

> > mean if you ask me now,

> > for example, this gentleman (points to a Sahaja

> > Yogi), you met him here. I

> > would never, say, I would never remember that he's

> > one of them or something

> > because I don't keep any record. You don't count

> > every leaf you give light.

> > You just don't do it. You just like to give it,

> > that's all; don't count. For

> > what are you going to count ? You don't want to take

> > anything so why count?

> > You take a person who just wants to give. Now these

> > flowers are giving

> > fragrance. Do they count how many people they have

> > given fragrance ? (Anyone

> > who comes) will take fragrance from them. Their job

> > is to give fragrance so

> > they are giving fragrance. It's very simple.

> >

> > Interviewer: Won't you destroy some of that giving

> > factor if you put

> > yourself on a pedestal, which is probably what you

> > might be doing if you

> > start to approach a wider audience ,a larger group

> > of people ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: I never think of these things. It

> > always worked out in such a

> > way that I have managed so far. The other day we had

> > a village of 6000

> > people and they all got Realisation. Just like

> > lightening. All of them. Can

> > you believe it ? They all got Realisation, so that's

> > not the thing. You see,

> > think of this Divine Power that converts flowers

> > into fruits. Now the flower

> > of a mango will become a mango. How these things are

> > worked out. Into what

> > details, how delicately. How every character is

> > preserved. If I'm talking of

> > that power, why should I ever (count) ?

> >

> > Interviewer: This Divine Power, this God ¡V why did

> > he put us here ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Oh, he loved you so much. That's why he

> > put us here. And in

> > just a little transition you had to learn what is

> > good and what is bad.

> > That's all just to make you grow a little, that's

> > all. In this you all got

> > so frightened. Its was nothing to be frightened. All

> > he has given us is such

> > a nice thing (but) you don't want to see. We don't

> > want to see anything. You

> > see, that's the trouble.

> >

> > Interviewer: But why even put us in such a

> > situation. Why not just create

> > us like Himself, or Herself?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Or whatever it is. The thing is you

> > have to grow, isn't it ?

> > Now, it would be like a little bird (which) is born

> > to the mother bird. Now

> > the mother bird has to teach the little bird how to

> > fly, isn't it ? Now she

> > makes it fly by calling the little bird. And the

> > bird says, why not make me

> > like that ¡V as you are ? Then how will you learn.

> > You have to master it.

> > How will you do it ? Unless and until you learn

> > yourself ,I mean, one can

> > cook for you and put it into your mouth but you have

> > to taste it. It is for

> > you to taste. If you don't have any taste, how will

> > you enjoy ? Just develop

> > your taste buds that He has to make. You have to

> > grow, is necessary.

> >

> > Interviewer: What are we growing towards ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: You are going to be the lights of God.

> > Beacons of light of

> > God's love that is going to flow in this world.

> >

> > Interviewer: Are we eventually supposed to grow to

> > be just like Him ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Yes, very much. He's made you in His

> > image, of course, in His

> > Collectivity and all that to become the ocean by not

> > becoming the ocean,

> > just falling into it.

> >

> > Interviewer: How do we seem to grow, or do we really

> > grow? After all these

> > years we haven't learnt very much about war.

> >

> > Shri Mataji: War. I mean, whatever you say, we

> > haven't learnt about war.

> > What we haven't learnt, I mean, that's a very good

> > situation that man has

> > reached, that he has not learnt very much because if

> > God had told you before

> > that you haven't learnt anything you would not have

> > believed it because you

> > have freedom to decide. You haven't learnt much.

> > Now, we haven't learnt, so

> > now you settle down. That's one of the styles of God

> > , to make human beings

> > learn otherwise they would not. If you had created

> > an atom bomb, you would

> > never have learned. What nonsense we have done by

> > all our experimentation

> > with science ¡t means that it is like a Satan on

> > your head. So you know what

> > you have done to yourself, so you come back. All

> > these shocks are important

> > otherwise you may never go to God, never think of

> > it, because this freedom

> > gives you ego and people become so ego-orientated.

> > There are so many people

> > who just don't believe in God. They think it's

> > trash.

> >

> > Interviewer: Are we going to have so much freedom

> > that eventually we'll

> > destroy ourselves ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: No, we can never destroy. You see God's

> > creation. He has

> > created you and He's not the one who is going to

> > destroy His own creation.

> > You don't do anything. You just don't do anything.

> > You see, this is the

> > wrong impression human beings have got. What they do

> > is a dead work. Now

> > see, the flowers are dead so you have arranged them.

> > The tree is dead so you

> > have made the furniture, that is all. Dead to the

> > dead. Any living work can

> > you do ? Any living work ? Nothing. Only after

> > Realisation you can do it, by

> > awakening the kundalini. Then you can do it. Then

> > you are entitled to become

> > the master.

> >

> > Interviewer: Then we can create things ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Yes of course. You start creating. You

> > start creating a new

> > personality by raising the kundalini.

> >

> > Interviewer: What is achieved once this awakening

> > happens ? I mean, why are

> > we better for it ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: You see like I told you we are like a

> > light. Now when you are

> > Enlightened what happens to you. You see the light.

> > In the light you see

> > yourself. All confusion is finished. You know the

> > Truth, and you feel so

> > blissful and happy because you know everything.

> > There is no chaos , no

> > nothing. You are so relaxed and the power starts

> > flowing through you all the

> > time. It is never lost and you see in that light

> > whatever is good and what

> > ever is bad. And you understand everything so well.

> > And when you become the

> > light, what do you do ? Is to give the light to

> > others so that they should

> > be Enlightened also. But this dead light cannot give

> > light to others in such

> > a way as that light can give to others. But you can,

> > once you are Realised,

> > you can make others Enlightened. The whole confusion

> > of disintegration,

> > quarrels and political problems and these economic

> > problems and religion,

> > everything will subside. Absolutely, when you are

> > Enlightened. Human beings

> > have to be Enlightened because they are in

> > darkness. That's why all these

> > problems are there.

> >

> > Interviewer: What the world as we know it cease to

> > exist if we all become

> > Enlightened in such a way ?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: ..it will be flowering then. It would

> > take another shape of

> > beauty and enjoyment, happiness.

> >

> > Interviewer: The heaven that is so talked about in

> > religious books..

> >

> > Shri Mataji: Yes, that's it. That's promised is to

> > be brought in.Everything

> > they have said is to be proved. All that is the job

> > Sahaja Yoga has to do.

> > That's why it is the Maha Yoga. It's the great Yoga.

> >

> > Interviewer: How long is it going to take to get us

> > there?

> >

> > Shri Mataji: You see it depends on human beings, how

> > they work it out.

> > That's all. It's for them to decide now. You see,

> > they have to take a

> > decision.

> >

> > (recording ceases at that point)

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Voilet,

Thank you too for all ur thanks. Yeah the interview is so nourishing.we all should join hand in hand & move ahead with the vision of Shri Mother.

Sahaja Yoga is a complete package to the humanity .

 

With Nirmal Love,

Gautam

Violet <vtubb wrote:

Dear Gautam,Thank you for this spiritually nourishing in-depth interview which i have never read before.i will also re-post this at Shri Adi Shakti Forum for future reference.This is becoming a forum of great sharing. We can all grow spiritually in leaps and bounds by sharing what Shri Mataji has to say to all of us. As Shri Mataji has travelled and spoken the world over, there is always something else we may have missed.Thank you again,Jai Shri Mataji!Violet , gautam thapa <sahajgautam> wrote:>> Radio Interview with Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Hong> > Kong 1992> >> > Interviewer: Shri Mataji, from the information I've> > read about you, you were> > born in India, a Christian. How was that

?> >> > Shri Mataji: I was born a Christian, that's all.> >> > Interviewer: There can't be many Christian families> > in that country.> >> > Shri Mataji: There are lots of Christians. Apart> > from that I was born a> > Christian.> >> > Interviewer: Which part of India do you truly come> > from ?> >> > Shri Mataji: Just the centre of India. Absolutely> > the centre of India.> >> > Interviewer: Is there anything specific about this> > being the central point?> >> > Shri Mataji: It is the central point because I have> > to be in the centre to> > do my job. That's why I was born in the centre of> > India.> >> > Interviewer: When you were a child, though, being> > born in the centre of> > India, did that mean anything to

you, as a young> > girl ?> >> > Shri Mataji: I did not know it was the centre or> > anything to be discovered> > about it. I just knew what my mission was, what I> > was. I knew I was to be> > born at the right point. I took all these things for> > granted. I knew this> > was to be so. I knew this very well.> >> > Interviewer: How old were you when you realised that> > you had this mission ?> >> > Shri Mataji: All my life. As you realise you are a> > human. In the same way I> > knew I had to do all this. I knew I was different.> >> > Interviewer: And did you start fulfilling this> > mission ever since you can> > remember ?> >> > Shri Mataji: Yes of course. I knew I had healing> > powers and I knew I had> > curing powers. I knew I could raise the

kundalini;> > all that I knew. But I> > knew I wanted to do something to know all the> > combinations and permutations> > of the problems of human beings. That's how I> > studied that. I wanted to find> > out a proper time (that) I could find out a method> > by (which) a mass> > happening could happen¡ Kthey could achieve it. And> > on the 5th of May I was> > sitting near the sea there. I decided that it should> > happen and it worked> > out that the last centre as they call it, the limbic> > area above, that> > resides the opening for the Divine, what we can call> > what we call in the> > bible as the baptism. The baptism we had was just a> > ritual. The real> > baptism is that when the residual force within us> > called as kundalini, when> > it rises and pierces the fontanelle bone

area, which> > is a soft bone you had> > as a child, that time is the real baptism and this> > baptism was to be> > achieved.> > But I wanted to make a way by which we could make a> > mass happening, because,> > you see, if it happened to one person, say, Christ> > was a Realised Soul, a> > great incarnation he was the Son of God no doubt,> > but nobody recognized Him.> > And when He tried to explain they would not> > understand because he was at> > such a height that they could not understand what He> > was seeing, what He was> > talking about and ultimately . it was very wrong to> > crucify a man of that> > calibre. He was the incarnation.> >> > Interviewer: So it was on the 5th of May, of what> > particular year ?> >> > Shri Mataji: 1970> >> >

Interviewer: Let's go back to when you were a child.> > Was there anything> > about the way you were brought up that might have> > led you to ..> >> > Shri Mataji: Very much. From my very childhood I> > knew I was to be conceived> > by my mother. They told me lots of things. What> > happened to my mother . But> > one of the main things I remember now was this. She> > wanted to go and see a> > tiger when she was eight months pregnant and my> > father said that's funny> > that you want to go and see a tiger at this advanced> > stage of pregnancy.> > But she said, No, I must go and see a tiger. And so> > my father was a big> > well-known hunter in those days and one of the Rajas> > sent a word saying> > there was, a man-eater perhaps in the forest and we> > would like you to come>

> and help us. See now I've got a message and now I> > have to go. And my mother> > said, Alright, if you have to go, I am coming with> > you.> > How will you come at this stage ?> > No, I must come to see the tiger moving. Then he> > went there and she also. We> > use a kind of platform on top. They build it in a> > tree . And these> > villagers, you see, they drive the animal towards> > the hunter. My father and> > mother always sitting on top of the (platform), and> > suddenly the> > big, huge tiger appeared, and my father said he> > had never seen such a big> > one before, it was coming in the moonlight and> > walking very stealthily in> > his own grace and dignity. And my mother was so> > enamored, you see, that she> > just looked at it. She was so happy as if her child> > has

seen. She felt very> > happy, she said. My father wanted to kill the animal> > and mother said, No, if> > you are going to kill the animal I am going to jump.> > You are not going to> > kill the tiger. Then the tiger disappeared. They> > don't know where the tiger> > went. So my father knew that it would be some> > powerful personality that is> > going to be born. And my father, being a Realised> > Soul, knew it was> > something extraordinary.> >> > Interviewer: What about when you were actually a> > child ? Did they treat you> > as something special and teach you some special> > things to help on this> > mission of yours ?> >> > Shri Mataji: No it was not like that. You see it was> > a very free sort of an> > expression of a personality. People accepted. I was> >

very loving,> > compassionate and generous. I was a unique person to> > have as a child, but it> > was different; but only thing I would say that my> > father understood me much> > better because he was a Realised Soul. When grew up> > he told me, no use> > talking about it to anyone. First of all find a> > method by which people get> > en masse realisation. That is your work. As you> > know, unless and until you> > find that, there's no use talking about it. They'll> > create another Koran or> > Bible , what's the use. You must give them an> > experience or they will never> > understand.> >> > Interviewer: Did you continue this idea of yours of> > trying to get this> > message going through your work with Mahatma Gandhi?> >> >> > Shri Mataji: No, that time it was

very different. It> > was an emergency. In a> > small way I contributed. He loved me very much. He> > used to call me Nepali.> > It is our face you see ,because I have a broad face.> > He always used to call> > me Nepali. But he was a man born for an emergency> > and when India wanted to> > be politically independent. But there was this thing> > And a political leader> > need not worry about Spirit and Religion, but he> > considered our country to> > be a land of Yoga. He always based his theories and> > philosophies and> > activities on the fibre of the people. We are a very> > religious people and> > how to create an atmosphere of satisfaction in the> > people. He had that> > within him. But he didn't talk of Realisation and as> > a when I was a little> > child of 7 years I used to

play about with him and> > (he) was very fond of me> > so I would make some orange juice for him and he> > would discuss with me small> > things and remember once I told him, Why do you make> > everyone get up so> > early ? If you want to get up you can, but why do> > you make everyone get up> > so early ? It's all right for me, but why do you> > have to make everyone ? (He> > said) everyone should be made to get up we are> > passing through a crisis. We> > have to fight the British and get our independence> > and if people are> > lethargic how are we going to do it. So we have to> > be disciplined and we> > must have discipline and it will be all right. And> > then I told him we need> > to have inner discipline and so he knew that I was a> > wise person. And he> > used to love me and

respect me in a very fatherly> > manner. He would discuss> > things with me. He impressed me by many things. He> > had a sense of integrity> > within himself. He was absolutely honest to himself.> > That was something I> > appreciated. He never cheated himself. This is the> > greatest thing about him.> > In money matters, anything, he was so integrated.> > What he said he did, he> > criticised himself.But for him Realisation was not> > the problem at that time.> > But after independence we should have taken to> > Realisation. That was the> > main problem. But after Realisation we had problems> > of , say, partition. And> > the diversion of the whole attention was on the> > wrong things. We had to> > solve this problem and nobody thought of Realisation> > at that time. It should> > be

so.> >> > Interviewer: How much do think Mahatma Gandhi> > influenced the way your Sahaja> > Yoga developed, your way of thinking now, your> > technique maybe ?> >> > Shri Mataji: You see it was no question of influence> > because you see this is> > another realm I am talking about. Sahaja Yoga takes> > you to another realm> > where these problems do not exist. These problems> > work out with Divine> > power, not with human powers. And Divine power is> > there and they work it out> > eventually in such a smooth manner that there is no> > need to use these human> > powers. But his main contribution, I think, was to> > establish balance in> > people. Balance in people was the main thing. And> > make them more Indian and> > to take out all the slavish mentality that had>

> trickled down into us, make> > us feel our own self-neglect all these things were> > there. But the realm in> > which I was different from his. So the question of> > influence doesn't come> > in. But, I would say that, certain things were> > influenced my choice, say,> > of different prayers. I told him according to the> > different centres within> > us. I said you do this one, then this one, and he> > said, Alright, it's a good> > idea, and he changed. It was so smooth and silently> > done that it was not> > made obvious to anyone that we had any rapport on> > these things nor did he> > ever ask me about Spirit nor did he ever meditate.> > He did not meditate> > because he was not Realised. At that time he was not> > a Realised Soul. His> > main attention was for this and he will be

born> > again and he will be> > Realised. He will be born Realised because he was> > very, very great. He was a> > Great Soul, no doubt. He was extremely great as a> > human being. But> > Realisation is very different. It's another realm> > into which human beings> > go. His meditation was to ponder about things and to> > guide oneself, but not> > the kind of meditation where we become thoughtlessly> > aware. It's a different> > dimension in your awareness.> >> > Interviewer: Is this then what Self-Realisation> > means, what you mean as a> > Realised Soul?> >> > Shri Mataji: Yes, Self-Realisation means when the> > Self, which is talked> > about in all the scriptures, starts emitting its> > manifestation in our> > conscious mind means that time when we become

aware> > of it. To this extent> > our central nervous system starts recording the> > power of our Spirit, of> > oneself. And we start feeling the breeze-like> > vibrations of the Spirit which> > is called as in the Bible as the Cool Breeze of the> > Holy Spirit.> >> > Interviewer: You're saying them that when a person> > is Realised he feels some> > actual physical things.> >> > Shri Mataji: Yes, the energy that's flowing through> > him he can feel it..> > It's flowing through his body. Not only that but he> > becomes. It's not> > lecturing or any brain-washing. He actually becomes> > collectively conscious,> > means in his awareness he can start feeling another> > person's centres and> > also his own centres and he can start correcting it.> >> >

Interviewer: Is it like finding what one can, or> > what people have loosely> > described as the Soul inside one ?> >> > Shri Mataji: Yes, but they're quite confused people.> > They don't know what is> > Soul, what is Spirit. But these are all precise> > things. Soul is the thing> > which is not only Spirit but is the body, the> > personality. Except for the> > element of earth in it. We are made of five elements> > out of which the> > element of earth drops out; then you become the> > Soul, because you cannot be> > seen but you exist in another plane.> >> > Interviewer: Was it before you decided to start,> > truly started, your mission> > you also took some courses in medicine ?> >> > Shri Mataji: Yes, I did some medicine because I knew> > I had to talk to> >

doctors and explain to them what is all this because> > I knew, but I didn't> > know what to call it because the names are given by> > human beings. So I had> > to study. I also studied one dictionary on> > psychology because I knew I had> > to talk to psychologists, doctors and scientists who> > have to know about it> > to say what they call it, you see.> >> > Interviewer: The theory that scientists say that man> > came from a little cell> > from heaven knows where. How did you feel about> > those?> >> > Shri Mataji: It's a fact, it's a fact. He (man) came> > through a cell, evolved> > through a cell. How did he evolve ? Why did he> > evolve ? What is the purpose> > of his life ? (It) is not all answered by science.> > What is the power that> > makes you evolve ? Also, that

is not answered. So in> > Sahaja Yoga you know> > all that ¡V not only you evolve but with the same> > power you go higher.> >> > Interviewer: What is your theory about that then ?> > Why are we here, or, why> > are we so long in the process ?> >> > Shri Mataji: You see, anything that you create, even> > human beings for> > example, you have created things. (A) beautiful lamp> > is to give us the> > light, isn't it, the power. So that's how God has> > created us, to give His> > power to us that we feel him and know Him in our> > awareness and understand> > and we emit His powers and enjoy it. To say in the> > words of Christ, To enter> > into the kingdom of God.> >> > Interviewer: Are you talking about the same God as> > every religion talks> >

about.> >> > Shri Mataji: Absolutely, there's nothing else.> >> > Interviewer: Is Sahaja Yoga a sort of new religion ?> >> > Shri Mataji: No, it is the integration, it's the> > Enlightenment that proves> > all the religions and all the incarnations and their> > integration.> >> > Interviewer: How does it prove it ?> >> > Shri Mataji: So, in the sense that you can see, in> > the room there are many> > things. When it's dark you see this thing as> > something different and another> > thing and you say it is something different, (or)> > this is mine, this is> > mine, this is the truth, because you see that and> > another sees another> > thing. But in the light you see the whole thing> > belongs to the same. Sahaja> > Yoga just gives you that light of the

Spirit by> > which you start seeing it's> > all just the same. For example, now, once you are> > connected to the Spirit> > you start getting those cool vibrations in your> > hand. Now, you want to ask,> > Now is there God. Immediately you start getting a> > lot of cool vibrations> > coming to you. The questions are answered like this.> > You start feeling them,> > and every question. If you ever have a problem, you> > can ask and you can know> > because you are connected to the Absolute. All such> > questions you are> > asking. Say you are a Realised Soul. You can get the> > answers on your hands> > and you can know if this is true. Whether Christ> > was. Now they say He was> > the Son of God. People challenge, I can understand> > that because they were> > not Realised Souls, that's

why they couldn't> > understand that time. But when> > you're Realised, you just ask, Was He the Son of God> > ? and you'll see that> > the vibrations will start flowing. You'll know who> > was really a real saint> > or a prophet, a fake one. Everything you can find> > out through these> > vibrations because a rapport is established now you> > are connected. Like this> > (microphone) is connected to the mains. Unless and> > until this speaker is> > connected to the mains it is useless. You are to be> > connected to the mains.> > Unless and until this instrument, that is created> > from amoeba to this stage,> > is connected to the mains you will not know> > yourself. You are not going to> > know your meaning, neither are you going to know the> > function for which you> > are

created.> >> > Interviewer: Surely it's a matter of what stage of> > your development that you> > can even start to questions about these things.> >> > Shri Mataji: No, not necessarily, because the time> > has come. There's no need> > to have a question. I find it everywhere. I find it> > has different styles.> > For example some countries have problems they are> > facing. They are so> > speedy. Cancer is one of them which can be cured> > after Sahaja Yoga,> > otherwise you cannot cure cancer. So many things are> > there. Developing> > countries have their own problems, then they start> > thinking, What about us ?> > How are we? For example, India, we have problems,> > they get so confused. They> > don't know how to solve these problems. They try to> > solve one problem,

so> > they start thinking about it, now what is it, what's> > going wrong? You do not> > have the light. You are walking in the darkness. You> > are bumping at each> > other for nothing at all.> >> > Interviewer: Will people be able to handle this> > Sahaja Yoga do you think ?> >> > Shri Mataji: Yes, by all means. You see once you are> > Self-Realised you have> > to, a little bit, establish yourself ¡V that's true.> > You take about, at the> > most, one month or two months. Once you are> > established you become so> > powerful and so wise. The vibrations tell you and> > you just don't do wrong> > things. If you start doing it you don't like it> > because you start getting> > the pain in the fingers. Something happens to you ¡V> > you enjoy this, so> >

blissful.> >> > Interviewer: Don't you think that perhaps it might> > go the same way, say, for> > instance, if you talk about Christ teaching His love> > idea and how we should> > love everybody, that some people just didn't accept> > that.> >> > Shri Mataji: It does not matter. But that may not be> > possible now because> > who cannot accept will have problems. They will have> > to accept or they will> > have problems. Gradually perhaps they have to accept> > it. This is because> > this is the solution to all of the problems; because> > you have problems you> > have to accept it, otherwise human beings are easy> > things to accept it.> > Christ, you see, at that time, didn't come for> > Self-Realisation. He just> > came to prove that there is Spiritual power.> >

Resurrection, which cannot be> > killed, is His message. My message is not> > Resurrection or anything. Mine is> > your Resurrection .Resurrection of the whole human> > race, (it) is their> > evolution. (This) is my message. This is my job.> >> > Interviewer: How are you going to convince> > hard-boiled cynics that this is> > the right way to go about things ?> >> > Shri Mataji: You see, this nature will work it out> > in so many ways. These> > cynics are there. They are cynics because of certain> > reasons. There would> > not be so, but they are conditioned. You can find> > out because they must be> > having problems with that, mental problems, also> > problems with the family.> > Cynics will always have problems with the family. I> > do not say that they> > always have

problems; some say that only those who> > are happy can come to> > Sahaja Yoga. Not necessarily so. There is a category> > of seekers. There is a> > category of people who are seekers. First I have to> > worry about them those> > who are real seekers. It's a category. And that's> > why they are unhappy> > because they are a different category. They will not> > be satisfied with> > anything. They will try everything. They will try to> > get some money, to get> > power. They'll try this, that. But they'll not be> > happy, because they're a> > different category. Then they will seek God, so> > they'll seek again, God.> > They'll go to wrong people and spend money here,> > there. Do this, that.> > Everything they'll try, and then they'll find out.> > Still they haven't found> > out what

they were (seeking), so they'll come to> > Sahaja Yoga. So, first, my> > attention is on the seekers. It's a category. As I> > told you these people> > know that William Blake has written about , he calls> > them, men of God. And> > these men of God, he says, will become prophets. And> > these prophets have a> > special power by which they will be giving> > Realisation to others and making> > them into prophets.> >> > Interviewer: Are you saying then that William Blake> > was a Realised Soul.> >> > Shri Mataji: Yes, of course.> >> > Interviewer: How can one be a Realised Soul when> > you're here now.> >> > Shri Mataji: (laughing) You see, there were many> > Realised Souls before also,> > and it's the power (which) is all-pervading; is> > eternal, is

all-existing.All> > of these great Saints like we can say John the> > Baptist was a Realised Soul,> > Shakespeare was a great Realised Soul. He was> > tremendous, the way he tried> > to show the futility of life. He definitely was a> > Realised Soul. And this> > you will know by feeling the vibrations of these> > people, whether they were> > Realised or not. You can feel the vibrations that> > they were Realised Souls.> > And these Realised Souls (existed) thousands of> > years back. Like on a tree,> > there are only one or two flowers to begin with,> > then gradually the blossom> > times come and there are many flowers and there are> > many fruits for growth.> >> > Interviewer: What does it take to be a Realised> > Soul. Is it a mature person,> > or is it somebody who appreciates

mankind for what> > it is ?> >> > Shri Mataji: No, it's not a mental status that's> > important. It is the desire> > within you, the pure desire to be one with God, to> > be one with beyond. This> > pure desire; it may exist, also the desire that you> > see it's not everything.> > You get fed up. It's a drama and you get bored. You> > try everything, but you> > are not happy about it. You see, it's the pure> > desire, be one with your> > Spirit. You may not be educated. You may be a street> > urchin. You could be> > living in a remote place but still the pure desire> > may be in you completely> > existing and that works it out. But you are not> > aware of the pure desire,> > but it works out. But you are not aware of the pure> > desire, but that works> > it out because you do

not feel happy with other> > things you feel frustrated.> > And what ever you try, so what ! It's an economic> > science. You see, in> > particular, you may satisfy a want but in general> > they are not satiable. So> > even the matter teaches you.> >> > Interviewer: Two very interesting thoughts come to> > my head at this point.> > One, is it through being Realised that one gets> > knowledge of what's on the> > other side of death, as it were. And, two, whether> > one really, through this> > Realisation, that one finds a little bit of God> > inside oneself.> >> > Shri Mataji: That's the point. Second point is> > correct. You find God within> > yourself then your priorities change about knowing> > about things. You don't> > want to know what is beyond life because you come

in> > the present. You are> > not worried about the past and the future but that> > also you know because> > gradually your vision improves. You start seeing> > what happens after death.> > You see the patients coming to you and you start> > seeing they are spirits and> > this and that and they are possessed by the spirits> > and then you talk and> > find out such a lot about them, what all that is. So> > it comes to you as an> > experimentation with your truth that you have found> > out. But the main thing> > that happens to you is that feeling that> > universality; just start feeling in> > the sense (that) it becomes a part and parcel of> > your awareness. Just a part> > and parcel of your awareness. As a human being you> > have a special awareness> > for flowers, a special awareness

for cleanliness.> > Animals don't have. In the> > same way you go to the point where you just become> > aware of that you start> > feeling them around. You start feeling what is right> > and wrong. For example,> > if I start telling people, this is sin, then they> > will do it a hundred> > times. If I give them Realisation they will not just> > do it. They will see> > it. In the night, I am sleeping in this room and> > there is this snake up here> > and someone will say there is a snake. And I say, no> > it's not there, I can't> > see it. But if you put on the light I'll just know> > it's a snake and I will> > run away from it.> >> > Interviewer: How does one know what's right and> > what's wrong though ?> >> > Shri Mataji: You see, because you have not found the> >

Absolute that's why> > there's a problem. But if you have found the> > Absolute, you'll just know it.> > But it is not knowledge by your rationality, but in> > your being. You just> > feel it on your fingers. You just know what is> > happening to another person.> > You start feeling it. Just feeling it is not good.> > You know something is not> > right in this house. There's some centres catching> > on your fingers. You ask> > someone, you find there is something wrong.> >> > Interviewer: You're talking about feelings things> > now through the fingers, a> > part of the body. How did you come about this> > particular idea, it is through> > the fingers that one has this knowledge of oneself?> >> > Shri Mataji: I knew all these things beforehand. It> > is too (laughing) to> >

say, now, it is true what to say now? I knew this.> > This is my knowledge, as> > you say. I knew all this.> >> > Interviewer: You feel you are sent here by God or,> > say, as the next prophet> > in line ?> >> > Shri Mataji: I don't want to say all that because I> > don't want to get> > crucified for nothing at all. No, I am quite wise.> > But there is something> > special, no doubt, something very great, according> > to human beings. But for> > me, it's nothing great. It's just the same. Say the> > sun gives you light.> > What's so great about it? It has light, so it gives> > you light. Supposing I> > have this power I cannot do, I cannot even play my> > own radio. I am so> > hopelessly bad. But I knew Kundalini. I know how to> > do this work. There's> > nothing to

feel I am higher or lower. This is my> > job. I am here for that> > job, finished, that is all.> >> > Interviewer: A lot of people in the last few years> > particularly have come up> > who have ideas along your lines. A lot of yogas, a> > lot of yogis. People have> > got this misconception about yoga.> >> > Shri Mataji: You see, yoga, in simple words, means> > union with God, with> > Spirit. All other things are nonsense. You see, you> > stand on your head, you> > do this thing. It's a spontaneous process. It's a> > living process of the> > living God. It has to happen within you, like the> > sprouting of the seed.> > Now, if you stand on your head, can you sprout a> > seed? Can you turn a flower> > into a fruit; can you? By doing some sort of> > exercise? You see, this

hatha> > yoga was practised in India thousands of years back> > when we had another> > system of life, where students were sent to the> > guru, to the teacher and the> > students lived with the teacher in the forest. And> > some students were> > selected and they were given this self-knowledge.> > But the first thing in the> > real Patanjali Yoga is you must have is ishwa> > pradita you must establish> > your God. If you have not established your God it is> > just people becoming> > actors and actresses, that is all. It is never so> > important. All theses so> > called exercises are just like different corrections> > of your different> > centres , physical corrections, and they are to be> > used at a particular time> > (for) a particular trouble. If, you see, you have> > troubles, for

example, of> > the neck, what is the use doing exercises for the> > stomach. But the way> > people do this hatha yoga these days is like taking> > the whole medicine box> > at the same time. By that, they thin down. And the> > thinning down they think> > is very healthy. And this thinning down is not> > correct because the kind of> > thinning down actually comes because they become dry> > people. Alright, you> > put attention because you are paying attention to> > your health. But health is> > not everything. They become very fidgety. They> > become very nervy. They may> > be very hot-tempered or they can be terrifying, you> > see. Or very big bores.> > They could divorce their wife, beat their children.> > All kinds of things they> > can do. We had such yogis in our India in ancient> >

times. They curse people> > to make them die. Is this the way to achieve yoga ?> >> > Interviewer: So this misconception of yoga, or> > malpractice.> >> > Shri Mataji: No, this is not malpractice because,> > you see, I am a Mother. I> > will give them benefit of the doubt. They did not> > have the complete> > knowledge so they went on one side and another went> > on the other side. Like,> > you see, devotion ¡V dancing and singing in the name> > of God. They go mad> > with it. I¡¦ve seen them go mad with it. That's> > another extreme. One extreme> > of this side is to be a sort of fanatic or an> > aesthetic and other extremes> > start. But God is in-between. He's not in extremes> >> > Interviewer: People, being what they are, tend to be> > distrustful and some> >

people might say, well how are we to know she won't> > rip us off or lead us> > down another blind path ?> >> > Shri Mataji: Very true. I would be very happy if> > they would not trust> > people. If they are mesmerized they are. Very much.> > If any one asks for> > money then they are much more for (money). There's a> > competition. Recently> > we had somebody in India who has made 2 crores of> > rupees out of such people.> > It's not that they do not trust but they are stupid.> > They have always> > doubted the people who are real and always trusted> > people who are unreal.> > They are being stupid about it. There are certain> > things by which we can> > judge a person if he's (real) or not. First and> > foremost thing is, you> > cannot sell God. You cannot make money out of

God.> > You cannot sell your> > vibrations. You cannot sell these things. This is> > very precious. You cannot> > value it. It is invaluable. It is God's love. So you> > cannot have a regular> > organised religion whereby you sell it in the> > marketplace. It is shameful> > and so insulting. It is so shameful. You do it> > because you love them. They> > are part and parcel of your being. That is why you> > just cure them because> > you are part and parcel of your being. You don't> > say, if I cure this hand> > I'll give a little relief, do I pay that hand ? Or> > do I feel any obligation.> > You just do it because it's part and parcel of your> > being so it has to be> > compassion. It can not be money and all these things> > that are going around.> > People are more enamoured by these

things. And all> > the circuses will have> > the hypocrites and dress up in all kinds of dress.> > People are very> > impressed by that. You see, people care more for> > superficial things. If you,> > sort of, sit in a square and sit down in one loin> > cloth and the snow is> > falling, (they will say) oh, such a great saint has> > come. What do we have to> > do with ascetics when we are living in a household.> > If they are ascetics we> > should not have anything to do with (them). We are> > householders and> > householders are the best people for Sahaja Yoga And> > those who have run away> > from their lives, let them go to the Himalayas and> > station themselves. They> > have no reason to come and live like parasites on> > our earnings. They are> > parasites of the worst type.

Dealing in opium,> > (using) other people's money.> > That's what they are. And they have no self-respect.> > Some of them are so> > cruel. They have made people so poor and they have> > taken away all the money.> > Not only that, there are smugglers, doesn't matter.> > But they have put such> > spirits into people, they are falling of epilepsy.> > They have troubles,> > kidney trouble. They are having all kinds of> > trouble. These horrible people,> > they are Satanic.> >> > Interviewer: You are devoting yourself completely> > then to your mission ,> > mind, body and finances.> >> > Shri Mataji: You see, I would say that I'm only one> > person. I'm not heart> > and soul and all that, so whatever I do, I do the> > whole thing. I'm not> > separated. There's no

question. As far as finances> > are concerned I don't> > need much finances. And my travelling and all that,> > mostly my husband pays> > for me. Sometimes even these people who call me pay> > for it. I think my> > husband should not pay for their salvation. It's a> > bit too much. They will> > also become parasitic. Even that's to be paid. It's> > alright if they pay me> > for my travelling at the most. My needs are very> > little and by Gods grace,> > in this life I am not a carpenter's wife. But I am a> > wife of a well-to-do> > gentleman. It's alright.> >> > Interviewer: You are now on your mission to try to> > inform more of the world> > about Sahaja Yoga. How many followers do you have> > presently ?> >> > Shri Mataji: I have no record. I have no record. I> >

mean if you ask me now,> > for example, this gentleman (points to a Sahaja> > Yogi), you met him here. I> > would never, say, I would never remember that he's> > one of them or something> > because I don't keep any record. You don't count> > every leaf you give light.> > You just don't do it. You just like to give it,> > that's all; don't count. For> > what are you going to count ? You don't want to take> > anything so why count?> > You take a person who just wants to give. Now these> > flowers are giving> > fragrance. Do they count how many people they have> > given fragrance ? (Anyone> > who comes) will take fragrance from them. Their job> > is to give fragrance so> > they are giving fragrance. It's very simple.> >> > Interviewer: Won't you destroy some of that giving> > factor if you

put> > yourself on a pedestal, which is probably what you> > might be doing if you> > start to approach a wider audience ,a larger group> > of people ?> >> > Shri Mataji: I never think of these things. It> > always worked out in such a> > way that I have managed so far. The other day we had> > a village of 6000> > people and they all got Realisation. Just like> > lightening. All of them. Can> > you believe it ? They all got Realisation, so that's> > not the thing. You see,> > think of this Divine Power that converts flowers> > into fruits. Now the flower> > of a mango will become a mango. How these things are> > worked out. Into what> > details, how delicately. How every character is> > preserved. If I'm talking of> > that power, why should I ever (count) ?> >> >

Interviewer: This Divine Power, this God ¡V why did> > he put us here ?> >> > Shri Mataji: Oh, he loved you so much. That's why he> > put us here. And in> > just a little transition you had to learn what is> > good and what is bad.> > That's all just to make you grow a little, that's> > all. In this you all got> > so frightened. Its was nothing to be frightened. All> > he has given us is such> > a nice thing (but) you don't want to see. We don't> > want to see anything. You> > see, that's the trouble.> >> > Interviewer: But why even put us in such a> > situation. Why not just create> > us like Himself, or Herself?> >> > Shri Mataji: Or whatever it is. The thing is you> > have to grow, isn't it ?> > Now, it would be like a little bird (which) is born> > to the mother

bird. Now> > the mother bird has to teach the little bird how to> > fly, isn't it ? Now she> > makes it fly by calling the little bird. And the> > bird says, why not make me> > like that ¡V as you are ? Then how will you learn.> > You have to master it.> > How will you do it ? Unless and until you learn> > yourself ,I mean, one can> > cook for you and put it into your mouth but you have> > to taste it. It is for> > you to taste. If you don't have any taste, how will> > you enjoy ? Just develop> > your taste buds that He has to make. You have to> > grow, is necessary.> >> > Interviewer: What are we growing towards ?> >> > Shri Mataji: You are going to be the lights of God.> > Beacons of light of> > God's love that is going to flow in this world.> >> > Interviewer: Are

we eventually supposed to grow to> > be just like Him ?> >> > Shri Mataji: Yes, very much. He's made you in His> > image, of course, in His> > Collectivity and all that to become the ocean by not> > becoming the ocean,> > just falling into it.> >> > Interviewer: How do we seem to grow, or do we really> > grow? After all these> > years we haven't learnt very much about war.> >> > Shri Mataji: War. I mean, whatever you say, we> > haven't learnt about war.> > What we haven't learnt, I mean, that's a very good> > situation that man has> > reached, that he has not learnt very much because if> > God had told you before> > that you haven't learnt anything you would not have> > believed it because you> > have freedom to decide. You haven't learnt much.> > Now, we haven't

learnt, so> > now you settle down. That's one of the styles of God> > , to make human beings> > learn otherwise they would not. If you had created> > an atom bomb, you would> > never have learned. What nonsense we have done by> > all our experimentation> > with science ¡t means that it is like a Satan on> > your head. So you know what> > you have done to yourself, so you come back. All> > these shocks are important> > otherwise you may never go to God, never think of> > it, because this freedom> > gives you ego and people become so ego-orientated.> > There are so many people> > who just don't believe in God. They think it's> > trash.> >> > Interviewer: Are we going to have so much freedom> > that eventually we'll> > destroy ourselves ?> >> > Shri Mataji: No, we can

never destroy. You see God's> > creation. He has> > created you and He's not the one who is going to> > destroy His own creation.> > You don't do anything. You just don't do anything.> > You see, this is the> > wrong impression human beings have got. What they do> > is a dead work. Now> > see, the flowers are dead so you have arranged them.> > The tree is dead so you> > have made the furniture, that is all. Dead to the> > dead. Any living work can> > you do ? Any living work ? Nothing. Only after> > Realisation you can do it, by> > awakening the kundalini. Then you can do it. Then> > you are entitled to become> > the master.> >> > Interviewer: Then we can create things ?> >> > Shri Mataji: Yes of course. You start creating. You> > start creating a new> > personality

by raising the kundalini.> >> > Interviewer: What is achieved once this awakening> > happens ? I mean, why are> > we better for it ?> >> > Shri Mataji: You see like I told you we are like a> > light. Now when you are> > Enlightened what happens to you. You see the light.> > In the light you see> > yourself. All confusion is finished. You know the> > Truth, and you feel so> > blissful and happy because you know everything.> > There is no chaos , no> > nothing. You are so relaxed and the power starts> > flowing through you all the> > time. It is never lost and you see in that light> > whatever is good and what> > ever is bad. And you understand everything so well.> > And when you become the> > light, what do you do ? Is to give the light to> > others so that they should>

> be Enlightened also. But this dead light cannot give> > light to others in such> > a way as that light can give to others. But you can,> > once you are Realised,> > you can make others Enlightened. The whole confusion> > of disintegration,> > quarrels and political problems and these economic> > problems and religion,> > everything will subside. Absolutely, when you are> > Enlightened. Human beings> > have to be Enlightened because they are in> > darkness. That's why all these> > problems are there.> >> > Interviewer: What the world as we know it cease to> > exist if we all become> > Enlightened in such a way ?> >> > Shri Mataji: ..it will be flowering then. It would> > take another shape of> > beauty and enjoyment, happiness.> >> > Interviewer: The heaven that

is so talked about in> > religious books..> >> > Shri Mataji: Yes, that's it. That's promised is to> > be brought in.Everything> > they have said is to be proved. All that is the job> > Sahaja Yoga has to do.> > That's why it is the Maha Yoga. It's the great Yoga.> >> > Interviewer: How long is it going to take to get us> > there?> >> > Shri Mataji: You see it depends on human beings, how> > they work it out.> > That's all. It's for them to decide now. You see,> > they have to take a> > decision.> >> > (recording ceases at that point)> >> > > > > > Enjoy this Diwali with Y! India Click here>