Why are Christians still collectively lying about 'original sin' and Jesus' atonement?

[Guest guest]

Dear Violet, Weaver (and others too),

 

While we continue this Pentecostal phenomena i want to ask

Christians while are they collectively lying about 'original sin',

and that Jesus died for the sins of humanity. It never made sense to

me because my biology was sufficient to confirm with history that

evolution took millions of years. Perhaps those who formulated this

central theology of Christianity hundreds of years ago were not as

privileged as me. Perhaps the vast powers of the Church gave them an

intellectual authority to compel the illiterate masses to bow in

awe and reverence ............ till the last century where biology,

history and secularism freed them from the fear of being burnt at

the stake to question and reject the Church's teachings.

 

As the new millennium dawns the converging technologies will only

help to slowly dispel all the falsehood of religious organizations.

Knowledge and enlightenment that took decades to travel are now

Googled in seconds, allowing constructive criticism to benefit all.

 

Please read this previous article and tell me it is not true:

 

" If God knows everything, he already knows (in fact, he knew before

he created Adam) who will be saved and who will be damned. But is

this foreknowledge or predestination? Are we condemned because of

Adam's sin or our own? Does 'original sin' mean that because birth

results from sexual intercourse, the parents' sinfulness passes into

the baby, and does that mean sex is sinful?

 

Similar questions can be asked — and discussed endlessly — about

every single term in Christian theology.

 

Jesus' teachings is in complete contrast to this. He never spoke of

original sin; everything he said ran counter to the notion of a

collective guilt that would fall on generation after generation. He

never talked of the expiation of sins beings the condition of entry

into the new society, into the Kingdom. On the contrary, one's very

entry into the Kingdom means that one's sins have been washed away —

which does not mean that this Kingdom is one where anything goes,

for as we have seen the rules of the new society are truly

demanding . . . Jesus never claimed that he had to die to 'atone

for' humanity's sins. This would mean that a God who demanded,

through His son, that one should forgive 'seventy-seven times

seven' — that is, always — would Himself be unable to do as

much . . .

 

In fact, Jesus called people to joy and a renewal of the Covenant

between God and men. There are many calls to joy in the

gospels: 'The Kingdom of Heaven may be compared to a king who gave a

feast for his son's wedding;' You will eat and drink at my table in

my kingdom;' 'Rejoice with me . . . I have found my sheep that was

lost;' 'The Kingdom of Heaven is like treasure in a field which

someone has found; he hides it again, goes off happy, sells

everything he owns and buys the field' — and so on. "

 

Jacques Duquesne, Jesus: An Unconventional Biography,

Triump Books, 1997 p. 155-56.

 

My point is why Christians are still collectively lying about

'original sin' and Jesus' atonement when He neither talked about the

former nor claimed the glory of the later? i cannot understand too

why God cannot just forgive, or is it that Christians have put words

in His mouth too?

 

And Christmas is just round the corner to celebrate the birth of

Jesus, another collective lie the traces its source from the Church.

But we can console ourselves since Santa shares that with the

Savior and children wait in joy and anticipation for his arrival.

(i heard that even though he is just a century old Santa beats Jesus

hands down in popularity and gifts of the season, not Spirit, .....

........... even among adults.) Is it any wonder why it was necessary

for the Adi Shakti to take birth and, among many things, bring to

remembrance about Christ? Most Christian preachers have conveniently

forgotten that too and do not teach it anymore. Just like their

inability to bring forth the Cool Breeze of those born of the Spirit,

they just add thunder to what they lack in lightning.

 

Merry Christmas to all,

 

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

Dear Jagbir and Others,

 

I want to say that I have also experienced Pentecostal teachings. My

first wife was into a non denominational church where they believed

the gift of the Holy Spirit was evidenced by speaking in tounges. I

was a little frightened by the experience the short time I was

associated with this teaching. (that was the reason I divorced her)

They did not teach of the cool breeze nor even how to acquire the

Holy Spirit. They would lay hands on people and I guess force people

to acquire the Holy Spirit. She was not very Christian in her ways

and that is why I divorced her. The Pentecostal religion seemed to

be an exclusive religion that was critical of other religions and

other people who did not believe like they do. There was no

forgiveness and guilt seem to be a big part of Salvation. And being

your own master was not taught at all.

 

The sad part about the experience for me is that I thought if this

was Christianity, I wanted no part of it and then started living a

carnal life. Jagbir, I believe that if Sahaja Yogas do not have Love

in thier hearts, then others will leave for the same reason I left

this type of religion many years ago.

 

I also wanted to talk about something I came accross a couple of

days ago by Vernon Coleman and I quote:

 

Most people ( & that includes most doctors) still believe that the

body is like a machine. It isn't. Forget all those analogoies about

bodies being like motor cars & needing nothing more than good fuel,

regular servicing and expensive check ups. Your body is much more

complicated than any machine imagineable. And your mind has an

enourmous influence over your health. I can illustrate the power of

the mind over the body most dramatically by referring to some

research which was done with patients who were suffering from

Multiple Personality Disorder. One patient suffered from high blood

pressure when one of his personalities was dormant.

But when another personality took over, his high blood pressure

problem disappeared. It was the same body, but the mind change had

resulted in it becoming a different, healthier body. Another patient

suffered from diabetes when one personality was dominant. But the

diabetes vanished when a different personality took over.

We've only just begun to find out how powerful the human mind can

be. In the future the greatest breakthroughs in healing and health

care will not come from scientists working on new drugs but from

those few doctors who are investigating ways of harnessing the power

of the human mind more effectively. Sadly, most research is paid for

by drug firms (who are only interested in finding profitable new

drugs) & gov'ts (who are controlled by drug firms) so progress is

slow.

 

Jagbir, Violet, and others:

 

We talk a good deal about the Chakras and was wondering if multiple

personalities may have to do with people going from left to right

(bouncing around) the Chakras rather than being centered. The

kundalini energy flows like a river and Shri Mataji talks about

being centered within the river of the flow. I also do not know if

somehow two people (spirits) are within one body? But this does not

make sense as the kundlaini energy is located at the bottom of the

spine (I am still not familiar with the different Chakras) and

Mother is awakened within each of us when we (The Spirit) desire her

and I do not see how two Spirits could do this. I know this is a

little complicated.

 

I also want to touch on what Jesus said about sin. I remember he

told the Samaritan girl to go and sin no more. I also know for

myself that I do not think about sin or doing right from wrong or

the commandments that God gave Moses. I belive and Jesus also said

this also (and I will try and find the scriptures for you) if you

have Love in your hearts, you will not sin. For me, As I seek the

Kingdom of God within, and become one with the Father (Divine Love)

then sin is no more. It is kind of like the analogy that Lalita gave

regarding Spongebob. He is so innocent and pure, he does not sin.

This is what mother gives each and every one of us when we seek self

realization. (BTW if you have not watched a spongebob square pants

episode, watch one, very enlightening!) I will try and find the

scriptures and post them when I find them.

 

Love,

 

Chuck

 

 

 

, " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org> wrote:

>

> Dear Violet, Weaver (and others too),

>

> While we continue this Pentecostal phenomena i want to ask

> Christians while are they collectively lying about 'original sin',

> and that Jesus died for the sins of humanity. It never made sense

to

> me because my biology was sufficient to confirm with history that

> evolution took millions of years. Perhaps those who formulated

this

> central theology of Christianity hundreds of years ago were not as

> privileged as me. Perhaps the vast powers of the Church gave them

an

> intellectual authority to compel the illiterate masses to bow in

> awe and reverence ............ till the last century where

biology,

> history and secularism freed them from the fear of being burnt at

> the stake to question and reject the Church's teachings.

>

> As the new millennium dawns the converging technologies will only

> help to slowly dispel all the falsehood of religious

organizations.

> Knowledge and enlightenment that took decades to travel are now

> Googled in seconds, allowing constructive criticism to benefit all.

>

> Please read this previous article and tell me it is not true:

>

> " If God knows everything, he already knows (in fact, he knew before

> he created Adam) who will be saved and who will be damned. But is

> this foreknowledge or predestination? Are we condemned because of

> Adam's sin or our own? Does 'original sin' mean that because birth

> results from sexual intercourse, the parents' sinfulness passes

into

> the baby, and does that mean sex is sinful?

>

> Similar questions can be asked — and discussed endlessly — about

> every single term in Christian theology.

>

> Jesus' teachings is in complete contrast to this. He never spoke of

> original sin; everything he said ran counter to the notion of a

> collective guilt that would fall on generation after generation. He

> never talked of the expiation of sins beings the condition of entry

> into the new society, into the Kingdom. On the contrary, one's very

> entry into the Kingdom means that one's sins have been washed

away —

> which does not mean that this Kingdom is one where anything goes,

> for as we have seen the rules of the new society are truly

> demanding . . . Jesus never claimed that he had to die to 'atone

> for' humanity's sins. This would mean that a God who demanded,

> through His son, that one should forgive 'seventy-seven times

> seven' — that is, always — would Himself be unable to do as

> much . . .

>

> In fact, Jesus called people to joy and a renewal of the Covenant

> between God and men. There are many calls to joy in the

> gospels: 'The Kingdom of Heaven may be compared to a king who gave

a

> feast for his son's wedding;' You will eat and drink at my table in

> my kingdom;' 'Rejoice with me . . . I have found my sheep that was

> lost;' 'The Kingdom of Heaven is like treasure in a field which

> someone has found; he hides it again, goes off happy, sells

> everything he owns and buys the field' — and so on. "

>

> Jacques Duquesne, Jesus: An Unconventional Biography,

> Triump Books, 1997 p. 155-56.

>

> My point is why Christians are still collectively lying about

> 'original sin' and Jesus' atonement when He neither talked about

the

> former nor claimed the glory of the later? i cannot understand too

> why God cannot just forgive, or is it that Christians have put

words

> in His mouth too?

>

> And Christmas is just round the corner to celebrate the birth of

> Jesus, another collective lie the traces its source from the

Church.

> But we can console ourselves since Santa shares that with the

> Savior and children wait in joy and anticipation for his arrival.

> (i heard that even though he is just a century old Santa beats

Jesus

> hands down in popularity and gifts of the season, not

Spirit, .....

> .......... even among adults.) Is it any wonder why it was

necessary

> for the Adi Shakti to take birth and, among many things, bring to

> remembrance about Christ? Most Christian preachers have

conveniently

> forgotten that too and do not teach it anymore. Just like their

> inability to bring forth the Cool Breeze of those born of the

Spirit,

> they just add thunder to what they lack in lightning.

>

> Merry Christmas to all,

>

>

> jagbir

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Chuck and All,

 

i certainly can understand how a person would find the 'pentecostal' experience

frightening, and with good reason. We know through Sahaja Yoga that the Sure

Sign of the real Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the Cool Breeze or Wind that the

Disciples also felt as a sign on the Day of Pentecost. It is true as Jagbir very

succinctly states:-

 

" You are not born of the Spirit (Self-Realization/Kundalini awakening) till you

feel the Cool Breeze. No religious organization or their employees can duplicate

it, because it is only triggered by self-desire and flows from the Divine Mother

within. " (Message 5283)Many Sahaja Yogis from different spiritual/religious

backgrounds are already feeling the Sure Sign of the Cool Breeze of the Holy

Spirit that the Disciples of Jesus felt on that long-ago Day of Pentecost.

 

In Sahaja Yoga, no one puts has to put their hand on your head in order to put

the Spirit of God into you. Rather, the Spirit of God is awakened from within

you. The Comforter is on Earth today, who Jesus said would baptize you with the

Spirit. It is Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, meaning " Respected Mother, Immaculate

Goddess " , who is no other than an Incarnation of the Divine Mother within. She,

Herself, through a guided meditation can help to awaken the Holy Spirit within.

You can experience this awakening now if you so wish, and here is the URL:-

 

(http://www.sahajayoga.org/experienceitnow/default.asp)

 

Through you pure and sincere desire, the kundalini will awaken and arise within

you. She is a dynamic intelligent and loving energy that knows you better than

your physical mother, as She has accompanied your Spirit in each lifetime. This

Mother Kundalini (meaning " coiled " energy) is the Living Power of God which

rises against gravity up the spinal column and lovingly attends to your Spirit

and connects it to the Throne of God. Then your Spirit is connected to the River

of the Water of Life, clear as crystal, which comes from that Throne of God.

Christ Jesus revealed this Holy Spirit/Kundalini awakening connection to John:

 

" And he showed me a River of the Water of Life, clear as crystal, coming from

the throne of God and the Lamb, in the middle of its street. " (Revelations

22:1-5 – New American Standard Bible)

 

Once the Mother Kundalini, your Spiritual Mother, `births' your Spirit into the

Kingdom of God, then the River of the Water of Life flows down from the Throne

of God, and you feel the Cool Breeze of the Holy Spirit.

 

Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi is an Incarnation of the Divine Mother, the Holy

Spirit. She has told us about the Adi Shakti (Holy Spirit) within human beings

and that we must start to recognize Her, and accept Her for who She is…. Our

Spiritual Mother who gives us our Spiritual Birth.

 

We have two choices in life at this time. As we are in the Last Judgment and

Resurrection Time, each person is finding (sometimes to their consternation and

incredulity), that somehow nothing is working out in their lives. No matter what

they do, things are going wrong. This is because, we are living under greatly

increased spiritual vibrations, and these vibrations are greatly encouraging us

to go with their flow and to take advantage of the opportunity of spiritual

liberation at this special time, whereby we can become our Higher Self, the

Spirit. When we become the Spirit, we become New Beings. He.... who sits on the

throne of God.... out of which proceeds the River of the Water of Life confirms

this:

 

" And He who sits on the throne said, " Behold, I am making all things new. "

(Revelations 21:5)

 

As we become Born Again, of the Spirit, we do become New Beings. Shri Mataji has

said that at This Time, which is the ending of the Kali Yuga (Dark Age) and at

the beginning of this New Age (Satya Yuga or Golden Age), the best thing we can

do for ourselves, is to make the decision now to become New Beings, Beings who

are Born Again, Born of the Spirit. Then all things will go well, as we will be

carried and protected by our connection to the Divine within at this Time of

Tremendous Transition into a new spiritual era, for which Jesus said we should

pray, when He said:

 

" Our Father who art in Heaven, Hallowed be Thy Name, Thy Kingdom Come on Earth

as it is in Heaven " (The Lord's Prayer)

 

Violet

 

 

, " Chuck "

<chuckhennigan@s...> wrote:

>

> Dear Jagbir and Others,

>

> I want to say that I have also experienced Pentecostal teachings.

My

> first wife was into a non denominational church where they

believed

> the gift of the Holy Spirit was evidenced by speaking in tounges.

I

> was a little frightened by the experience the short time I was

> associated with this teaching. (that was the reason I divorced her)

> They did not teach of the cool breeze nor even how to acquire the

> Holy Spirit. They would lay hands on people and I guess force

people

> to acquire the Holy Spirit. She was not very Christian in her ways

> and that is why I divorced her. The Pentecostal religion seemed to

> be an exclusive religion that was critical of other religions and

> other people who did not believe like they do. There was no

> forgiveness and guilt seem to be a big part of Salvation. And

being

> your own master was not taught at all.

>

> The sad part about the experience for me is that I thought if this

> was Christianity, I wanted no part of it and then started living a

> carnal life. Jagbir, I believe that if Sahaja Yogas do not have

Love

> in thier hearts, then others will leave for the same reason I left

> this type of religion many years ago.

>

> I also wanted to talk about something I came accross a couple of

> days ago by Vernon Coleman and I quote:

>

> Most people ( & that includes most doctors) still believe that the

> body is like a machine. It isn't. Forget all those analogoies

about

> bodies being like motor cars & needing nothing more than good

fuel,

> regular servicing and expensive check ups. Your body is much more

> complicated than any machine imagineable. And your mind has an

> enourmous influence over your health. I can illustrate the power

of

> the mind over the body most dramatically by referring to some

> research which was done with patients who were suffering from

> Multiple Personality Disorder. One patient suffered from high

blood

> pressure when one of his personalities was dormant.

> But when another personality took over, his high blood pressure

> problem disappeared. It was the same body, but the mind change had

> resulted in it becoming a different, healthier body. Another

patient

> suffered from diabetes when one personality was dominant. But the

> diabetes vanished when a different personality took over.

> We've only just begun to find out how powerful the human mind can

> be. In the future the greatest breakthroughs in healing and health

> care will not come from scientists working on new drugs but from

> those few doctors who are investigating ways of harnessing the

power

> of the human mind more effectively. Sadly, most research is paid

for

> by drug firms (who are only interested in finding profitable new

> drugs) & gov'ts (who are controlled by drug firms) so progress is

> slow.

>

> Jagbir, Violet, and others:

>

> We talk a good deal about the Chakras and was wondering if

multiple

> personalities may have to do with people going from left to right

> (bouncing around) the Chakras rather than being centered. The

> kundalini energy flows like a river and Shri Mataji talks about

> being centered within the river of the flow. I also do not know if

> somehow two people (spirits) are within one body? But this does

not

> make sense as the kundlaini energy is located at the bottom of the

> spine (I am still not familiar with the different Chakras) and

> Mother is awakened within each of us when we (The Spirit) desire

her

> and I do not see how two Spirits could do this. I know this is a

> little complicated.

>

> I also want to touch on what Jesus said about sin. I remember he

> told the Samaritan girl to go and sin no more. I also know for

> myself that I do not think about sin or doing right from wrong or

> the commandments that God gave Moses. I belive and Jesus also said

> this also (and I will try and find the scriptures for you) if you

> have Love in your hearts, you will not sin. For me, As I seek the

> Kingdom of God within, and become one with the Father (Divine

Love)

> then sin is no more. It is kind of like the analogy that Lalita

gave

> regarding Spongebob. He is so innocent and pure, he does not sin.

> This is what mother gives each and every one of us when we seek

self

> realization. (BTW if you have not watched a spongebob square pants

> episode, watch one, very enlightening!) I will try and find the

> scriptures and post them when I find them.

>

> Love,

>

> Chuck

>

>

>

> , " jagbir singh "

> <adishakti_org> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Violet, Weaver (and others too),

> >

> > While we continue this Pentecostal phenomena i want to ask

> > Christians while are they collectively lying about 'original

sin',

> > and that Jesus died for the sins of humanity. It never made

sense

> to

> > me because my biology was sufficient to confirm with history

that

> > evolution took millions of years. Perhaps those who formulated

> this

> > central theology of Christianity hundreds of years ago were not

as

> > privileged as me. Perhaps the vast powers of the Church gave

them

> an

> > intellectual authority to compel the illiterate masses to bow in

> > awe and reverence ............ till the last century where

> biology,

> > history and secularism freed them from the fear of being burnt

at

> > the stake to question and reject the Church's teachings.

> >

> > As the new millennium dawns the converging technologies will

only

> > help to slowly dispel all the falsehood of religious

> organizations.

> > Knowledge and enlightenment that took decades to travel are now

> > Googled in seconds, allowing constructive criticism to benefit

all.

> >

> > Please read this previous article and tell me it is not true:

> >

> > " If God knows everything, he already knows (in fact, he knew

before

> > he created Adam) who will be saved and who will be damned. But is

> > this foreknowledge or predestination? Are we condemned because of

> > Adam's sin or our own? Does 'original sin' mean that because

birth

> > results from sexual intercourse, the parents' sinfulness passes

> into

> > the baby, and does that mean sex is sinful?

> >

> > Similar questions can be asked — and discussed endlessly — about

> > every single term in Christian theology.

> >

> > Jesus' teachings is in complete contrast to this. He never spoke

of

> > original sin; everything he said ran counter to the notion of a

> > collective guilt that would fall on generation after generation.

He

> > never talked of the expiation of sins beings the condition of

entry

> > into the new society, into the Kingdom. On the contrary, one's

very

> > entry into the Kingdom means that one's sins have been washed

> away —

> > which does not mean that this Kingdom is one where anything goes,

> > for as we have seen the rules of the new society are truly

> > demanding . . . Jesus never claimed that he had to die to 'atone

> > for' humanity's sins. This would mean that a God who demanded,

> > through His son, that one should forgive 'seventy-seven times

> > seven' — that is, always — would Himself be unable to do as

> > much . . .

> >

> > In fact, Jesus called people to joy and a renewal of the Covenant

> > between God and men. There are many calls to joy in the

> > gospels: 'The Kingdom of Heaven may be compared to a king who

gave

> a

> > feast for his son's wedding;' You will eat and drink at my table

in

> > my kingdom;' 'Rejoice with me . . . I have found my sheep that

was

> > lost;' 'The Kingdom of Heaven is like treasure in a field which

> > someone has found; he hides it again, goes off happy, sells

> > everything he owns and buys the field' — and so on. "

> >

> > Jacques Duquesne, Jesus: An Unconventional Biography,

> > Triump Books, 1997 p. 155-56.

> >

> > My point is why Christians are still collectively lying about

> > 'original sin' and Jesus' atonement when He neither talked about

> the

> > former nor claimed the glory of the later? i cannot understand

too

> > why God cannot just forgive, or is it that Christians have put

> words

> > in His mouth too?

> >

> > And Christmas is just round the corner to celebrate the birth of

> > Jesus, another collective lie the traces its source from the

> Church.

> > But we can console ourselves since Santa shares that with the

> > Savior and children wait in joy and anticipation for his

arrival.

> > (i heard that even though he is just a century old Santa beats

> Jesus

> > hands down in popularity and gifts of the season, not

> Spirit, .....

> > .......... even among adults.) Is it any wonder why it was

> necessary

> > for the Adi Shakti to take birth and, among many things, bring

to

> > remembrance about Christ? Most Christian preachers have

> conveniently

> > forgotten that too and do not teach it anymore. Just like their

> > inability to bring forth the Cool Breeze of those born of the

> Spirit,

> > they just add thunder to what they lack in lightning.

> >

> > Merry Christmas to all,

> >

> >

> > jagbir

> >

>