Guest guest Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Dear Carol and Others, In , " danny weaver " <cdweaver32@h...> wrote.... " As I mentioned, previously, the Roman Catholic Church 'broke off 'from the Orthodox in 1054, leaving them in heresy, to the TRUE faith of God, established in the beginning. " Carol.... a similar scenario such as you describe also seems to have happened between Orthodox Christianity and Gnosticism. In the quote below, it describes this: " Orthodoxy Christianity was deeply and profoundly influenced by its struggles with Gnosticism in the second and third centuries. Formulations of many central traditions in Christian theology came as reflections and shadows of this confrontation with the Gnosis.5 But by the end of the fourth century the struggle was essentially over: the evolving ecclesia had added the force of political correctness to dogmatic denunciation, and with this sword so-called " heresy " was painfully cut from the Christian body. Gnosticism as a Christian tradition was largely eradicated, its remaining teachers ostracized, and its sacred books destroyed. All that remained for students seeking to understand Gnosticism in later centuries were the denunciations and fragments preserved in the patristic heresiologies. Or at least so it seemed until the mid-twentieth century. " (http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/naghamm/nhlintro.html) It must be remembered that Jesus taught about and gave the " Living Water " to people. This " Living Water " is the rising up of the kundalini within the Temple of God in a human being, which connects him/her to the Kingdom of God within. Jesus called it a person's Second Birth (of the Spirit). The experience of the " Living Water " that Jesus offered to people is the identical experience of " Self-Realization " that Shri Mataji now offers to people. Jesus spoke mostly in parables to the masses, but taught His Disciples all the truth of the 'inner knowingness'. Jesus said " Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened " . This 'inner knowingness' that Jesus offered which entailed " Living Water " is very obviously a REAL EXPERIENCE. Real experience and revelation is what Gnosticism means. In other words, Jesus's Teachings were Gnostic. As just stated....He taught and showed that the Second Birth is an actual experience and not just a teaching, but a revelation from within. And the Knowledge from Within, makes a person a Gnostic or Knower. Shri Mataji says that Sahaja Yogis are 'Modern Day Gnostics'. Gnostics only desire the Pure Knowledge and the Pure Truth from Within and express that in their lives. In relation to Gnostics, it states in the article below that: " Among early followers of Christ it appears there were groups who delineated themselves from the greater household of the Church by claiming not simply a belief in Christ and his message, but a " special witness " or revelatory experience of the divine. It was this experience or gnosis that set the true follower of Christ apart, so they asserted. Stephan Hoeller explains that these Christians held a " conviction that direct, personal and absolute knowledge of the authentic truths of existence is accessible to human beings, and, moreover, that the attainment of such knowledge must always constitute the supreme achievement of human life. " (http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/naghamm/nhlintro.html) Violet , " danny weaver " <cdweaver32@h...> wrote: > > Dear Jagbir, and all > > As I mentioned, previously, the Roman Catholic Church 'broke off 'from the > Orthodox in 1054, leaving them in heresy, to the TRUE faith of God, > established in the beginning. Once THAT happened they no longer held the > power, really to be doing confessions, and blessing people and all that. > They lost the Holy Spirit's blessing on them. They divided themselves from > the source. So in the process, people came in to become priests for wrong > reasons and Should not have been there at all, wer not Holy Spirit filled > Men of God. Not saying ALL are not sincere, and many are, but led astray, > and not wanting to listen to what history has said about the beginning of > the faith. Therefore, when God does NOT have His hand on the situation flaws > as such can and probably WILL occur. Stories USED to be out that they had > sex with nuns and babies were killed basements froun in NYC, but whether > true, I do not know. I have heard all that stuff too. Some nuns left, before > their time was finished, as did not want part of corruption, well stories > and more stories. Now some people will make up stories too, about the > priests to cause divisions also. I have heard people tell me about > Protestant ministers, well bad apples can get into any organization, and > parents must be VERY careful, especially today being TOO TRUSTING of placing > their children under other peoples authority as you never know who is wierd > out there any more. I always tried to watch ALL my childrens friends, and > would not EVER leave them with strangers, and now worry about grandchildren > as things are worse, and YET the young parents are TOO TRUSTING which makes > no sense to me at all, when you deal with young innocents. > > Carol > > > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org> > > > > > > Catholic Pedophile Priests: The Effect on > >US Society > >Sat, 31 Dec 2005 03:10:18 -0000 > > > > > >Catholic Pedophile Priests: > >The Effect on US Society > > > >The many flaws and omissions in the official report > >still cannot hide that this is a crisis of historical proportions. > > > > > > - > > > > > >The National Review Board for the Protection of Children and Young > >People established by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops has not > >had an easy time of determining the extent of the sexual abuse of > >minors within the American Roman Catholic Church. Not surprisingly, > >there has been considerable internal opposition. This resistance was > >so bad that long before its work was finished, its chairman, Frank > >Keating, was forced to resign after he compared the Church's actions > >to the Cosa Nostra, which rather proved his point. > > > >Certainly the fact that the report was reluctantly commissioned by > >the bishops who have been responsible for the crisis does not > >reflect well on its credibility. Nor does the fact that they only > >reason they ever did so was due to the constant and unrelenting > >pressure since the early 1990s by victims and advocacy groups, and > >later, the news media — not to mention the drain on their treasuries > >from huge settlements and dwindling contributions. > > > >Many dioceses with much to hide did not want to co-operate. The > >results are still missing from some, and the rest are spinning their > >denials and minimalizations as fast at their highly paid PR firms > >can turn. > > > >The focus was criticized as too narrow, being concerned solely with > >child sexual abuse. Other situations where clerics have sexually > >acted out with adult women and men, nuns and seminarians, have not > >been looked at; nor the effect on any offspring they may have sired > >in the process. For that matter, the personal cost to victims and > >their families remains uncounted. How many lives destroyed through > >alcohol, drugs, unsafe sex or violence have there been? How much > >abuse has been repeated by its victims? How many suicides and ruined > >families? How can the total cost ever be calculated? > > > >There has been much complaining by victims, also, that only a > >handful were asked to testify, that there was too little time and > >too many restrictions. Many, too, point out that not all victims > >have yet come forward by any means. Indeed, even if there are no new > >cases, just the repressed memories alone of the still-unrecognized > >victims will guarantee that these numbers will only increase over > >the next twenty years. > > > >And nothing has been said about multiple abusers and rings who > >swapped victims around like trading cards... > > > >Nonetheless, A Report on the Crisis in the Catholic Church in the > >United States has generated a fog of figures, which cannot obscure > >the extent of this massive failure of institutional religion. It is > >indeed a crisis. Though this is a step forward, it is not the > >solution by any means, but a half-hearted admission that there is a > >problem. > > > >Here are a few of the highlights. > > > >US clerics accused of abuse from 1950-2002: 4,392. > >About 4% of the 109,694 serving during those 52 years. > >Individuals making accusations: 10,667. > >Victims' ages: 5.8% under 7; 16% ages 8-10; 50.9% ages 11-14; 27.3% > >ages 15-17. > >Victims' gender: 81% male, 19% female > >Duration of abuse: Among victims, 38.4% said all incidents occurred > >within one year; 21.8% said one to two years; 28%, two to four > >years; 11.8% longer. > >Victims per priest: 55.7% with one victim; 26.9% with two or three; > >13.9% with four to nine; 3.5% with 10 or more (these 149 priests > >caused 27% of allegations). > >Abuse locations: 40.9% at priest's residence; 16.3% in church; 42.8% > >elsewhere. > >Known cost to dioceses and religious orders: $572,507,094 (does not > >include the $85 million Boston settlement and other expenses after > >research was concluded). (Hartford Courant, 2/27/04) > >It should be noted that 30% of all accusations were not investigated > >as they were deemed unsubstantiated or because the accused priest is > >dead. > > > >Unfortunately, however, these initial numbers are likely to be the > >only official accounting ever done by the Roman Catholic Church. As > >soon as the report was published, the UCCB acted swiftly to cut the > >National Review Board's feet out from under it. For this was to be > >the preliminary report; the audits were to be completed and a larger > >report issued. Furthermore, the Board had planned further follow- up > >reports to follow the implementation of their proposals. > > > >That will not happen now. And so the Church has lost its last, best > >chance of ever coming clean. > > > >In any case, these figures are widely suspected to be grossly > >underestimated. For example, the late Fr. Tom Economus, former > >President of the Linkup, a national survivors' advocacy group, said > >back in the mid-90s that he knew of " 1,400 insurance claims on the > >books and that the Church has paid out over $1 billion in liability > >with an estimated $500 million pending. " (Emphasis added.) > > > >He also said that over 800 priests had been removed from ministry > >and that there might be as many as 5,000 with allegations against > >them, which is not that far off. He often claimed that by far the > >most calls he received from all victims of any kind of clergy abuse > >were those from males who suffered abuse in their youth in the > >Catholic Church. Certainly these figures, which show that the > >highest number of victims were 12 year old boys and that 80% of the > >abuse was homosexual in nature, validate that anecodotal evidence, > >too. > > > >Also, Fr. Tom Doyle, a canon lawyer with more experience than any in > >these cases, has raised many questions over the validity and > >methodology of the study. He has said that he thought many cases > >were still hidden, pointing out the low numbers for the 1950s. > > > >' " It's not over with, " Doyle said. " The heart of the matter is: Why > >was there this massive betrayal? Why did they move [abusers] around > >for years, when they knew what they were doing? Why have they > >continued to re-victimize the victims by stonewalling, and why they > >have never turned in any of these known pedophiles? " '(Hartford > >Courant, 2/26/04) > > > > > > --- > >----------- > > > >Additional Information from other sources > >Four in 10 US Catholic nuns report having experienced sexual abuse, > >(a rate equivalent to that reported by American women in general), a > >study by Catholic researchers supported by major religious orders, > >has found. The study found that sisters have known sexual abuse less > >in childhood, dispelling what the authors call an " anti-Catholic " > >canard that girls fled to convents to escape sexual advances. During > >religious life, close to 30% of the nation's 85,000 nuns > >experienced " sexual trauma, " ranging from rape to exploitation to > >harassment. A total of 40% reported a least one experience of that > >kind. NCR, 1/15/99 See The Nuns' Stories for details. > >The Wisconsin Psychological Association's survey found offenders > >distributed among the following professions: Psychiatrists 34%, > >Psychologists 19%, Social Workers 13%, Clergy 11%, Physicians 6%, > >Marriage Counselors 4%, and Others 14%. > >The Center for Domestic Violence found that 12.6% of clergy said > >they had sex with church members. 47% of clergy women were harassed > >by clergy colleagues. > >The Presbyterian Church stated that 10-23% of clergy > >have " inappropriate sexual behavior or contact " with clergy and > >employees. > >The United Methodist research (1990) showed 38.6% of Ministers had > >sexual contact with church members and that 77% of church workers > >experienced some type of sexual harassment. > >The United Church of Christ found that 48% of the women in the work > >place have been sexually harassed by male clergy. > >The Southern Baptists claim 14.1% of their clergy have sexually > >abused members. > >At least the Roman Catholic Bishops can take heart: they're not > >alone... > > > >http://www.priestsofdarkness.com/stats.html > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Dear all, (Jai shri Mataji) Wish you & your family very very Happy New Year. Best Regards DD PhaseSend instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Dear All, i have found an excerpt where Shri Mataji states that Gnostics are those who are the 'knowers'.... who have their self-realization. Shri Mataji states that in every Religion, people have gone off the track.... and on to the wrong path.... and are indulging in self-created Religions, which have no relationship with Reality or with the Incarnations who started the religions. Shri Mataji also says that in the recently discovered writings of Thomas (one of Jesus's Disciples).... that Thomas challenges all the principles of suffering. We all know that incarnating on Earth as a human being brings with it, its challenges, and associated sufferings which are largely due to our spiritual ignorance. Disciple Thomas states that God Almighty is so kind, so why would He ask you to suffer? According to the Disciple Thomas, those religious leaders who promoted the principle of suffering were obviously not Knowers (Gnostics) of the Spiritual Truth Within. They were also not 'authorized Christians' for the very reason that they had never even experienced the " Living Water or Self-Realization, so how could they talk about the Spiritual Reality?! Here then, are the Words of Shri Mataji on the subject of Gnosticism: (Words of Shri Mataji - 19 December, 1987) " Recently they found out the books written by Thomas, the disciple of Christ who was coming to India. On his way he went to Egypt…. and there he wrote the treatise…. and he put in a big earthen vessel…. or perhaps it was a metallic thing…. and it was discovered 42 years back. The people whom he considered to be authorized Christians he calls as Gnostics. " Gna " means " to know " . He has written…. " To know and to have the personal experience is the only way to follow Christ clearly. " Not only that but he said that God Almighty who is so kind…. Why will he ask you to suffer…. so he challenges all the Christian principles of suffering. In the same way in all the Religions, people have diverted from the right path…. and have come to the wrong path…. and are indulging into self-created Religions which have no relationship with Reality…. or with the incarnations…. those who started the Religions…. or who gave the ideas of Religions…. I hope you won't do that to me…. because you are Gnostic people…. you are the ones who know…. who have had Self-Realisation. " (http://www.sahajvidya.org/SahajVidya/0_Key_Files/0_Key_Group_MainFra me.htm) Violet -- In , " Violet " <vtubb@b...> wrote: > > Dear Carol and Others, > > In , " danny weaver " > <cdweaver32@h...> wrote.... > " As I mentioned, previously, the Roman Catholic Church 'broke off 'from the Orthodox in 1054, leaving them in heresy, to the TRUE faith of God, established in the beginning. " > > > Carol.... a similar scenario such as you describe also seems to have happened between Orthodox Christianity and Gnosticism. In the quote below, it describes this: > > " Orthodoxy Christianity was deeply and profoundly influenced by its struggles with Gnosticism in the second and third centuries. Formulations of many central traditions in Christian theology came as reflections and shadows of this confrontation with the Gnosis.5 But by the end of the fourth century the struggle was essentially over: the evolving ecclesia had added the force of political correctness to dogmatic denunciation, and with this sword so- called " heresy " was painfully cut from the Christian body. Gnosticism as a Christian tradition was largely eradicated, its remaining teachers ostracized, and its sacred books destroyed. All that remained for students seeking to understand Gnosticism in later centuries were the denunciations and fragments preserved in the patristic heresiologies. Or at least so it seemed until the mid- twentieth century. " > > (http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/naghamm/nhlintro.html) > > > It must be remembered that Jesus taught about and gave the " Living Water " to people. This " Living Water " is the rising up of the kundalini within the Temple of God in a human being, which connects him/her to the Kingdom of God within. Jesus called it a person's Second Birth (of the Spirit). The experience of the " Living Water " that Jesus offered to people is the identical experience of " Self- Realization " that Shri Mataji now offers to people. > > Jesus spoke mostly in parables to the masses, but taught His Disciples all the truth of the 'inner knowingness'. Jesus said " Seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened " . This 'inner knowingness' that Jesus offered which entailed " Living Water " is very obviously a REAL EXPERIENCE. > > Real experience and revelation is what Gnosticism means. In other words, Jesus's Teachings were Gnostic. As just stated....He taught and showed that the Second Birth is an actual experience and not just a teaching, but a revelation from within. And the Knowledge from Within, makes a person a Gnostic or Knower. Shri Mataji says that Sahaja Yogis are 'Modern Day Gnostics'. Gnostics only desire the Pure Knowledge and the Pure Truth from Within and express that in their lives. > > In relation to Gnostics, it states in the article below that: > > " Among early followers of Christ it appears there were groups who delineated themselves from the greater household of the Church by claiming not simply a belief in Christ and his message, but a " special witness " or revelatory experience of the divine. It was this experience or gnosis that set the true follower of Christ apart, so they asserted. Stephan Hoeller explains that these Christians held a " conviction that direct, personal and absolute knowledge of the authentic truths of existence is accessible to human beings, and, moreover, that the attainment of such knowledge must always constitute the supreme achievement of human life. " > > (http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/naghamm/nhlintro.html) > > Violet > > > , " danny weaver " > <cdweaver32@h...> wrote: > > > > Dear Jagbir, and all > > > > As I mentioned, previously, the Roman Catholic Church 'broke > off 'from the > > Orthodox in 1054, leaving them in heresy, to the TRUE faith of > God, > > established in the beginning. Once THAT happened they no longer > held the > > power, really to be doing confessions, and blessing people and all > that. > > They lost the Holy Spirit's blessing on them. They divided > themselves from > > the source. So in the process, people came in to become priests > for wrong > > reasons and Should not have been there at all, wer not Holy Spirit > filled > > Men of God. Not saying ALL are not sincere, and many are, but led > astray, > > and not wanting to listen to what history has said about the > beginning of > > the faith. Therefore, when God does NOT have His hand on the > situation flaws > > as such can and probably WILL occur. Stories USED to be out that > they had > > sex with nuns and babies were killed basements froun in NYC, but > whether > > true, I do not know. I have heard all that stuff too. Some nuns > left, before > > their time was finished, as did not want part of corruption, well > stories > > and more stories. Now some people will make up stories too, about > the > > priests to cause divisions also. I have heard people tell me about > > Protestant ministers, well bad apples can get into any > organization, and > > parents must be VERY careful, especially today being TOO TRUSTING > of placing > > their children under other peoples authority as you never know who > is wierd > > out there any more. I always tried to watch ALL my childrens > friends, and > > would not EVER leave them with strangers, and now worry about > grandchildren > > as things are worse, and YET the young parents are TOO TRUSTING > which makes > > no sense to me at all, when you deal with young innocents. > > > > Carol > > > > > > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org> > > > > > > > > > Catholic Pedophile Priests: The > Effect on > > >US Society > > >Sat, 31 Dec 2005 03:10:18 -0000 > > > > > > > > >Catholic Pedophile Priests: > > >The Effect on US Society > > > > > >The many flaws and omissions in the official report > > >still cannot hide that this is a crisis of historical proportions. > > > > > > > > >------------------------------- -- > - > > > > > > > > >The National Review Board for the Protection of Children and Young > > >People established by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops has > not > > >had an easy time of determining the extent of the sexual abuse of > > >minors within the American Roman Catholic Church. Not > surprisingly, > > >there has been considerable internal opposition. This resistance > was > > >so bad that long before its work was finished, its chairman, Frank > > >Keating, was forced to resign after he compared the Church's > actions > > >to the Cosa Nostra, which rather proved his point. > > > > > >Certainly the fact that the report was reluctantly commissioned by > > >the bishops who have been responsible for the crisis does not > > >reflect well on its credibility. Nor does the fact that they only > > >reason they ever did so was due to the constant and unrelenting > > >pressure since the early 1990s by victims and advocacy groups, and > > >later, the news media — not to mention the drain on their > treasuries > > >from huge settlements and dwindling contributions. > > > > > >Many dioceses with much to hide did not want to co-operate. The > > >results are still missing from some, and the rest are spinning > their > > >denials and minimalizations as fast at their highly paid PR firms > > >can turn. > > > > > >The focus was criticized as too narrow, being concerned solely > with > > >child sexual abuse. Other situations where clerics have sexually > > >acted out with adult women and men, nuns and seminarians, have not > > >been looked at; nor the effect on any offspring they may have > sired > > >in the process. For that matter, the personal cost to victims and > > >their families remains uncounted. How many lives destroyed through > > >alcohol, drugs, unsafe sex or violence have there been? How much > > >abuse has been repeated by its victims? How many suicides and > ruined > > >families? How can the total cost ever be calculated? > > > > > >There has been much complaining by victims, also, that only a > > >handful were asked to testify, that there was too little time and > > >too many restrictions. Many, too, point out that not all victims > > >have yet come forward by any means. Indeed, even if there are no > new > > >cases, just the repressed memories alone of the still- unrecognized > > >victims will guarantee that these numbers will only increase over > > >the next twenty years. > > > > > >And nothing has been said about multiple abusers and rings who > > >swapped victims around like trading cards... > > > > > >Nonetheless, A Report on the Crisis in the Catholic Church in the > > >United States has generated a fog of figures, which cannot obscure > > >the extent of this massive failure of institutional religion. It > is > > >indeed a crisis. Though this is a step forward, it is not the > > >solution by any means, but a half-hearted admission that there is > a > > >problem. > > > > > >Here are a few of the highlights. > > > > > >US clerics accused of abuse from 1950-2002: 4,392. > > >About 4% of the 109,694 serving during those 52 years. > > >Individuals making accusations: 10,667. > > >Victims' ages: 5.8% under 7; 16% ages 8-10; 50.9% ages 11-14; > 27.3% > > >ages 15-17. > > >Victims' gender: 81% male, 19% female > > >Duration of abuse: Among victims, 38.4% said all incidents > occurred > > >within one year; 21.8% said one to two years; 28%, two to four > > >years; 11.8% longer. > > >Victims per priest: 55.7% with one victim; 26.9% with two or > three; > > >13.9% with four to nine; 3.5% with 10 or more (these 149 priests > > >caused 27% of allegations). > > >Abuse locations: 40.9% at priest's residence; 16.3% in church; > 42.8% > > >elsewhere. > > >Known cost to dioceses and religious orders: $572,507,094 (does > not > > >include the $85 million Boston settlement and other expenses after > > >research was concluded). (Hartford Courant, 2/27/04) > > >It should be noted that 30% of all accusations were not > investigated > > >as they were deemed unsubstantiated or because the accused priest > is > > >dead. > > > > > >Unfortunately, however, these initial numbers are likely to be the > > >only official accounting ever done by the Roman Catholic Church. > As > > >soon as the report was published, the UCCB acted swiftly to cut > the > > >National Review Board's feet out from under it. For this was to be > > >the preliminary report; the audits were to be completed and a > larger > > >report issued. Furthermore, the Board had planned further follow- > up > > >reports to follow the implementation of their proposals. > > > > > >That will not happen now. And so the Church has lost its last, > best > > >chance of ever coming clean. > > > > > >In any case, these figures are widely suspected to be grossly > > >underestimated. For example, the late Fr. Tom Economus, former > > >President of the Linkup, a national survivors' advocacy group, > said > > >back in the mid-90s that he knew of " 1,400 insurance claims on the > > >books and that the Church has paid out over $1 billion in > liability > > >with an estimated $500 million pending. " (Emphasis added.) > > > > > >He also said that over 800 priests had been removed from ministry > > >and that there might be as many as 5,000 with allegations against > > >them, which is not that far off. He often claimed that by far the > > >most calls he received from all victims of any kind of clergy > abuse > > >were those from males who suffered abuse in their youth in the > > >Catholic Church. Certainly these figures, which show that the > > >highest number of victims were 12 year old boys and that 80% of > the > > >abuse was homosexual in nature, validate that anecodotal evidence, > > >too. > > > > > >Also, Fr. Tom Doyle, a canon lawyer with more experience than any > in > > >these cases, has raised many questions over the validity and > > >methodology of the study. He has said that he thought many cases > > >were still hidden, pointing out the low numbers for the 1950s. > > > > > >' " It's not over with, " Doyle said. " The heart of the matter is: > Why > > >was there this massive betrayal? Why did they move [abusers] > around > > >for years, when they knew what they were doing? Why have they > > >continued to re-victimize the victims by stonewalling, and why > they > > >have never turned in any of these known pedophiles? " '(Hartford > > >Courant, 2/26/04) > > > > > > > > >------------------------------- -- > --- > > >----------- > > > > > >Additional Information from other sources > > >Four in 10 US Catholic nuns report having experienced sexual > abuse, > > >(a rate equivalent to that reported by American women in > general), a > > >study by Catholic researchers supported by major religious orders, > > >has found. The study found that sisters have known sexual abuse > less > > >in childhood, dispelling what the authors call an " anti- Catholic " > > >canard that girls fled to convents to escape sexual advances. > During > > >religious life, close to 30% of the nation's 85,000 nuns > > >experienced " sexual trauma, " ranging from rape to exploitation to > > >harassment. A total of 40% reported a least one experience of that > > >kind. NCR, 1/15/99 See The Nuns' Stories for details. > > >The Wisconsin Psychological Association's survey found offenders > > >distributed among the following professions: Psychiatrists 34%, > > >Psychologists 19%, Social Workers 13%, Clergy 11%, Physicians 6%, > > >Marriage Counselors 4%, and Others 14%. > > >The Center for Domestic Violence found that 12.6% of clergy said > > >they had sex with church members. 47% of clergy women were > harassed > > >by clergy colleagues. > > >The Presbyterian Church stated that 10-23% of clergy > > >have " inappropriate sexual behavior or contact " with clergy and > > >employees. > > >The United Methodist research (1990) showed 38.6% of Ministers had > > >sexual contact with church members and that 77% of church workers > > >experienced some type of sexual harassment. > > >The United Church of Christ found that 48% of the women in the > work > > >place have been sexually harassed by male clergy. > > >The Southern Baptists claim 14.1% of their clergy have sexually > > >abused members. > > >At least the Roman Catholic Bishops can take heart: they're not > > >alone... > > > > > >http://www.priestsofdarkness.com/stats.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Dear Violet and all, Of course Thomas was known as the 'doubter'. He was not there, when Jesus came to the Upper room, and did not believe in the resurection that it happened, and Jesus had to Prove him self to him, by letting him place his hand in the scars made on the cross for him to beleive, Jesus said, " But Thomas, More blessed are those who do not need to see but believe " By FAITH many miracles occur, and the TRUE belief. Thomas was not there on time for the Virgin Mary at her death either, the othes were, he was again, late. By this time he might have been a little frustrated. The disciples were on equal footing though, and Peter was the ROCK Jesus built His church on. They all had a place in Gods kingdom, He loved them all, or He would not have CHOSEN them to teach and lead others after He left, as in the scripture when the mother of two of the disciples, wanted her sons to be at His right side when he entered paradise, and He said, that is not for ME to give. They were ALL equal in the Kingdom. None over another, but again, they all had a little different APPROACH to getting the word out, causing confusion, among people perhaps, as people have a tendency to HEAR what they WANT... That is known fact, so know one is ever to know the truth if we all hear what we want to hear. Believing as we please. You can have 40 people in a room, tell them all the SAME thing, and SEE WHAT THEY THINK, THEY HEARD YOU SAY......Jesus wanted them to know that not ONE of them was above another all equal...... Carol Ann > " Violet " <vtubb > > > Re: Orthodox Christianity and >Gnosticism.... >Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:03:02 -0000 > >Dear All, > >i have found an excerpt where Shri Mataji states that Gnostics are those >who are the 'knowers'.... who have their self-realization. Shri Mataji >states that in every Religion, people have gone off the track.... and on to >the wrong path.... and are indulging in self-created Religions, which have >no relationship with Reality or with the Incarnations who started the >religions. > >Shri Mataji also says that in the recently discovered writings of Thomas >(one of Jesus's Disciples).... that Thomas challenges all the principles of >suffering. > >We all know that incarnating on Earth as a human being brings with it, its >challenges, and associated sufferings which are largely due to our >spiritual ignorance. Disciple Thomas states that God Almighty is so kind, >so why would He ask you to suffer? > >According to the Disciple Thomas, those religious leaders who promoted the >principle of suffering were obviously not Knowers (Gnostics) of the >Spiritual Truth Within. They were also not 'authorized Christians' for the >very reason that they had never even experienced the " Living Water or >Self-Realization, so how could they talk about the Spiritual Reality?! > >Here then, are the Words of Shri Mataji on the subject of Gnosticism: > >(Words of Shri Mataji - 19 December, 1987) > > " Recently they found out the books written by Thomas, the disciple of >Christ who was coming to India. On his way he went to Egypt…. and there he >wrote the treatise…. and he put in a big earthen vessel…. or perhaps it >was a metallic thing…. and it was discovered 42 years back. The people >whom he considered to be authorized Christians he calls as Gnostics. " Gna " >means " to know " . He has written…. " To know and to have the personal >experience is the only way to follow Christ clearly. " Not only that but he >said that God Almighty who is so kind…. Why will he ask you to suffer…. so >he challenges all the Christian principles of suffering. In the same way >in all the Religions, people have diverted from the right path…. and have >come to the wrong path…. and are indulging into self-created Religions >which have no relationship with Reality…. or with the incarnations…. those >who started the Religions…. or who gave the ideas of Religions…. I hope you >won't do that to me…. because you are Gnostic people…. you are the ones who >know…. who have had Self-Realisation. " > >(http://www.sahajvidya.org/SahajVidya/0_Key_Files/0_Key_Group_MainFra >me.htm) > >Violet > >-- In , " Violet " <vtubb@b...> >wrote: > > > > Dear Carol and Others, > > > > In , " danny weaver " > > <cdweaver32@h...> wrote.... > > " As I mentioned, previously, the Roman Catholic Church 'broke >off 'from the Orthodox in 1054, leaving them in heresy, to the TRUE >faith of God, established in the beginning. " > > > > > > Carol.... a similar scenario such as you describe also seems to >have happened between Orthodox Christianity and Gnosticism. In the >quote below, it describes this: > > > > " Orthodoxy Christianity was deeply and profoundly influenced by >its struggles with Gnosticism in the second and third centuries. >Formulations of many central traditions in Christian theology came >as reflections and shadows of this confrontation with the Gnosis.5 >But by the end of the fourth century the struggle was essentially >over: the evolving ecclesia had added the force of political >correctness to dogmatic denunciation, and with this sword so- >called " heresy " was painfully cut from the Christian body. >Gnosticism as a Christian tradition was largely eradicated, its >remaining teachers ostracized, and its sacred books destroyed. All >that remained for students seeking to understand Gnosticism in later >centuries were the denunciations and fragments preserved in the >patristic heresiologies. Or at least so it seemed until the mid- >twentieth century. " > > > > (http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/naghamm/nhlintro.html) > > > > > > It must be remembered that Jesus taught about and gave the " Living >Water " to people. This " Living Water " is the rising up of the >kundalini within the Temple of God in a human being, which connects >him/her to the Kingdom of God within. Jesus called it a person's >Second Birth (of the Spirit). The experience of the " Living Water " >that Jesus offered to people is the identical experience of " Self- >Realization " that Shri Mataji now offers to people. > > > > Jesus spoke mostly in parables to the masses, but taught His >Disciples all the truth of the 'inner knowingness'. Jesus said " Seek >and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened " . This 'inner >knowingness' that Jesus offered which entailed " Living Water " is >very obviously a REAL EXPERIENCE. > > > > Real experience and revelation is what Gnosticism means. In other >words, Jesus's Teachings were Gnostic. As just stated....He taught >and showed that the Second Birth is an actual experience and not >just a teaching, but a revelation from within. And the Knowledge >from Within, makes a person a Gnostic or Knower. Shri Mataji says >that Sahaja Yogis are 'Modern Day Gnostics'. Gnostics only desire >the Pure Knowledge and the Pure Truth from Within and express that >in their lives. > > > > In relation to Gnostics, it states in the article below that: > > > > " Among early followers of Christ it appears there were groups who >delineated themselves from the greater household of the Church by >claiming not simply a belief in Christ and his message, but >a " special witness " or revelatory experience of the divine. It was >this experience or gnosis that set the true follower of Christ >apart, so they asserted. Stephan Hoeller explains that these >Christians held a " conviction that direct, personal and absolute >knowledge of the authentic truths of existence is accessible to >human beings, and, moreover, that the attainment of such knowledge >must always constitute the supreme achievement of human life. " > > > > (http://www.webcom.com/~gnosis/naghamm/nhlintro.html) > > > > Violet > > > > > > , " danny weaver " > > <cdweaver32@h...> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Jagbir, and all > > > > > > As I mentioned, previously, the Roman Catholic Church 'broke > > off 'from the > > > Orthodox in 1054, leaving them in heresy, to the TRUE faith of > > God, > > > established in the beginning. Once THAT happened they no longer > > held the > > > power, really to be doing confessions, and blessing people and >all > > that. > > > They lost the Holy Spirit's blessing on them. They divided > > themselves from > > > the source. So in the process, people came in to become priests > > for wrong > > > reasons and Should not have been there at all, wer not Holy >Spirit > > filled > > > Men of God. Not saying ALL are not sincere, and many are, but >led > > astray, > > > and not wanting to listen to what history has said about the > > beginning of > > > the faith. Therefore, when God does NOT have His hand on the > > situation flaws > > > as such can and probably WILL occur. Stories USED to be out that > > they had > > > sex with nuns and babies were killed basements froun in NYC, but > > whether > > > true, I do not know. I have heard all that stuff too. Some nuns > > left, before > > > their time was finished, as did not want part of corruption, >well > > stories > > > and more stories. Now some people will make up stories too, >about > > the > > > priests to cause divisions also. I have heard people tell me >about > > > Protestant ministers, well bad apples can get into any > > organization, and > > > parents must be VERY careful, especially today being TOO >TRUSTING > > of placing > > > their children under other peoples authority as you never know >who > > is wierd > > > out there any more. I always tried to watch ALL my childrens > > friends, and > > > would not EVER leave them with strangers, and now worry about > > grandchildren > > > as things are worse, and YET the young parents are TOO TRUSTING > > which makes > > > no sense to me at all, when you deal with young innocents. > > > > > > Carol > > > > > > > > > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org> > > > > > > > > > > > > Catholic Pedophile Priests: >The > > Effect on > > > >US Society > > > >Sat, 31 Dec 2005 03:10:18 -0000 > > > > > > > > > > > >Catholic Pedophile Priests: > > > >The Effect on US Society > > > > > > > >The many flaws and omissions in the official report > > > >still cannot hide that this is a crisis of historical >proportions. > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------- >-- > > - > > > > > > > > > > > >The National Review Board for the Protection of Children and >Young > > > >People established by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops has > > not > > > >had an easy time of determining the extent of the sexual abuse >of > > > >minors within the American Roman Catholic Church. Not > > surprisingly, > > > >there has been considerable internal opposition. This >resistance > > was > > > >so bad that long before its work was finished, its chairman, >Frank > > > >Keating, was forced to resign after he compared the Church's > > actions > > > >to the Cosa Nostra, which rather proved his point. > > > > > > > >Certainly the fact that the report was reluctantly commissioned >by > > > >the bishops who have been responsible for the crisis does not > > > >reflect well on its credibility. Nor does the fact that they >only > > > >reason they ever did so was due to the constant and unrelenting > > > >pressure since the early 1990s by victims and advocacy groups, >and > > > >later, the news media — not to mention the drain on their > > treasuries > > > >from huge settlements and dwindling contributions. > > > > > > > >Many dioceses with much to hide did not want to co-operate. The > > > >results are still missing from some, and the rest are spinning > > their > > > >denials and minimalizations as fast at their highly paid PR >firms > > > >can turn. > > > > > > > >The focus was criticized as too narrow, being concerned solely > > with > > > >child sexual abuse. Other situations where clerics have sexually > > > >acted out with adult women and men, nuns and seminarians, have >not > > > >been looked at; nor the effect on any offspring they may have > > sired > > > >in the process. For that matter, the personal cost to victims >and > > > >their families remains uncounted. How many lives destroyed >through > > > >alcohol, drugs, unsafe sex or violence have there been? How much > > > >abuse has been repeated by its victims? How many suicides and > > ruined > > > >families? How can the total cost ever be calculated? > > > > > > > >There has been much complaining by victims, also, that only a > > > >handful were asked to testify, that there was too little time >and > > > >too many restrictions. Many, too, point out that not all victims > > > >have yet come forward by any means. Indeed, even if there are >no > > new > > > >cases, just the repressed memories alone of the still- >unrecognized > > > >victims will guarantee that these numbers will only increase >over > > > >the next twenty years. > > > > > > > >And nothing has been said about multiple abusers and rings who > > > >swapped victims around like trading cards... > > > > > > > >Nonetheless, A Report on the Crisis in the Catholic Church in >the > > > >United States has generated a fog of figures, which cannot >obscure > > > >the extent of this massive failure of institutional religion. >It > > is > > > >indeed a crisis. Though this is a step forward, it is not the > > > >solution by any means, but a half-hearted admission that there >is > > a > > > >problem. > > > > > > > >Here are a few of the highlights. > > > > > > > >US clerics accused of abuse from 1950-2002: 4,392. > > > >About 4% of the 109,694 serving during those 52 years. > > > >Individuals making accusations: 10,667. > > > >Victims' ages: 5.8% under 7; 16% ages 8-10; 50.9% ages 11-14; > > 27.3% > > > >ages 15-17. > > > >Victims' gender: 81% male, 19% female > > > >Duration of abuse: Among victims, 38.4% said all incidents > > occurred > > > >within one year; 21.8% said one to two years; 28%, two to four > > > >years; 11.8% longer. > > > >Victims per priest: 55.7% with one victim; 26.9% with two or > > three; > > > >13.9% with four to nine; 3.5% with 10 or more (these 149 priests > > > >caused 27% of allegations). > > > >Abuse locations: 40.9% at priest's residence; 16.3% in church; > > 42.8% > > > >elsewhere. > > > >Known cost to dioceses and religious orders: $572,507,094 (does > > not > > > >include the $85 million Boston settlement and other expenses >after > > > >research was concluded). (Hartford Courant, 2/27/04) > > > >It should be noted that 30% of all accusations were not > > investigated > > > >as they were deemed unsubstantiated or because the accused >priest > > is > > > >dead. > > > > > > > >Unfortunately, however, these initial numbers are likely to be >the > > > >only official accounting ever done by the Roman Catholic >Church. > > As > > > >soon as the report was published, the UCCB acted swiftly to cut > > the > > > >National Review Board's feet out from under it. For this was to >be > > > >the preliminary report; the audits were to be completed and a > > larger > > > >report issued. Furthermore, the Board had planned further >follow- > > up > > > >reports to follow the implementation of their proposals. > > > > > > > >That will not happen now. And so the Church has lost its last, > > best > > > >chance of ever coming clean. > > > > > > > >In any case, these figures are widely suspected to be grossly > > > >underestimated. For example, the late Fr. Tom Economus, former > > > >President of the Linkup, a national survivors' advocacy group, > > said > > > >back in the mid-90s that he knew of " 1,400 insurance claims on >the > > > >books and that the Church has paid out over $1 billion in > > liability > > > >with an estimated $500 million pending. " (Emphasis added.) > > > > > > > >He also said that over 800 priests had been removed from >ministry > > > >and that there might be as many as 5,000 with allegations >against > > > >them, which is not that far off. He often claimed that by far >the > > > >most calls he received from all victims of any kind of clergy > > abuse > > > >were those from males who suffered abuse in their youth in the > > > >Catholic Church. Certainly these figures, which show that the > > > >highest number of victims were 12 year old boys and that 80% of > > the > > > >abuse was homosexual in nature, validate that anecodotal >evidence, > > > >too. > > > > > > > >Also, Fr. Tom Doyle, a canon lawyer with more experience than >any > > in > > > >these cases, has raised many questions over the validity and > > > >methodology of the study. He has said that he thought many cases > > > >were still hidden, pointing out the low numbers for the 1950s. > > > > > > > >' " It's not over with, " Doyle said. " The heart of the matter is: > > Why > > > >was there this massive betrayal? Why did they move [abusers] > > around > > > >for years, when they knew what they were doing? Why have they > > > >continued to re-victimize the victims by stonewalling, and why > > they > > > >have never turned in any of these known pedophiles? " '(Hartford > > > >Courant, 2/26/04) > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------- >-- > > --- > > > >----------- > > > > > > > >Additional Information from other sources > > > >Four in 10 US Catholic nuns report having experienced sexual > > abuse, > > > >(a rate equivalent to that reported by American women in > > general), a > > > >study by Catholic researchers supported by major religious >orders, > > > >has found. The study found that sisters have known sexual abuse > > less > > > >in childhood, dispelling what the authors call an " anti- >Catholic " > > > >canard that girls fled to convents to escape sexual advances. > > During > > > >religious life, close to 30% of the nation's 85,000 nuns > > > >experienced " sexual trauma, " ranging from rape to exploitation >to > > > >harassment. A total of 40% reported a least one experience of >that > > > >kind. NCR, 1/15/99 See The Nuns' Stories for details. > > > >The Wisconsin Psychological Association's survey found offenders > > > >distributed among the following professions: Psychiatrists 34%, > > > >Psychologists 19%, Social Workers 13%, Clergy 11%, Physicians >6%, > > > >Marriage Counselors 4%, and Others 14%. > > > >The Center for Domestic Violence found that 12.6% of clergy said > > > >they had sex with church members. 47% of clergy women were > > harassed > > > >by clergy colleagues. > > > >The Presbyterian Church stated that 10-23% of clergy > > > >have " inappropriate sexual behavior or contact " with clergy and > > > >employees. > > > >The United Methodist research (1990) showed 38.6% of Ministers >had > > > >sexual contact with church members and that 77% of church >workers > > > >experienced some type of sexual harassment. > > > >The United Church of Christ found that 48% of the women in the > > work > > > >place have been sexually harassed by male clergy. > > > >The Southern Baptists claim 14.1% of their clergy have sexually > > > >abused members. > > > >At least the Roman Catholic Bishops can take heart: they're not > > > >alone... > > > > > > > >http://www.priestsofdarkness.com/stats.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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