What do fundamentalist bible-quoting Christians mean by pagan beliefs?

[Guest guest]

Dear Carol,

 

i really get uncomfortable when Christians start saying:

 

" Hopefully in this FREE country founded on right to allow faiths,

that we do not loose our Christianity, and become a melting pot of

pagan beliefs, which to some extent has already happened. "

 

Carol, since i know what they are actually meaning (because i have

talked to them). Can you clarify " pagan beliefs " ? Are you refering to

Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, and Islam by any chance? Do you

love Shri Krishna, Buddha, Guru Nanak, Mahavira and Prophet Muhammad?

 

After reading you last few posts i want to know more about your

dislike of so-called pagan beliefs which is a standard trademark of

all who are brainwashed by fanatical pastors. i have a friend who

speaks just like you. i have stopped talking to her about anything

spiritually because it is overwhemingly " my Jesus vs your pagan

beliefs " lectures. So i know what fundamentaists Christians mean

by " pagan " . Just want to know what you mean by those terms. Thanks.

 

jagbir

 

BTW, do you regard the deeply spiritual Indians who lived in America

for thousands of years pagan too?

 

 

, " danny weaver "

<cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

>

> It is so amazing to me how many different beliefs everyone holds,

and yet

> everyone thinks THEY have it RIGHT, and yet, they all want to BE

ONE, and

> think they are ALL RIGHT they say, on one hand, then they say, ONLY

WE (

> this group or that group) are RIght. It is surprising to me, as I

have been

> in the Pal talk chat rooms, to listen to various religions, and

beliefs,

> and some say , you do not need churches, you do not need anything

just

> relationship with Jesus. That may be true, but we need a main

meeting place

> to join in fellowship, to grow. Hopefully in this FREE country

founded on

> right to allow faiths, that we do not loose our Christianity, and

become a

> melting pot of pagan beliefs, which to some extent has already

happened. We

> do not want to upset anyone, of course, so we all say, it is ok to

be a

> homosexual, it is ok to molest children, it is ok, to steal,

children, it is

> ok to do anything, you please, as long as you SAY you have God

speaking to

> you, and Jesus within you, and the 'cool Breeze' or whatever they

may say

> they have, they can do anything. Well that is not true. " You will

know them

> by their fruits " so we know that even manson ( the killer and many

others)

> thought God was talking to them and telling them, Jim Jones, and

many

> others. We cannot dispute, what they think, but " You will know

them by

> their fruits " Their love for one another, and the NON judging and

trying to

> say WHO has the Jesus within and who does not as that is not up to

us to

> decide. " We will know them by their " fruits " What do they do for

others,

> how do they spend EACH waking moment? WHO are they REALLY? That is

what it

> has to do with. Jesus said " If you cannot live your brother/sister

whom you

> have seen, how can you love God who you have NOT seen? " " No one at

ANY time

> has SEEN God as God is Spirit and all must Worship Him in Spirit

and truth "

> Jesus yes, people have seen. as the FORM of God and we as the IMAGE

of God.

> But NOT God, at any time. We can ONLY know the true believer by

their FRUITS

> and how they LOVE others. But No, NO EVERYONE can be right, as

their are way

> too many people saying whatever they want and interpreting anyway

they

> please. No, uniformity in the belief, if you have a thought, anyone

can open

> a chat room, or go on TV, or do anything and teach anything, even

say, "

> This stone is God " if they WANT to, and THEY will have followers,

some

> people will believe if they are convincing enough. You can carry

around a

> piece of cotton and say God, came and cried on it, and His tears

are there,

> and everyone would follow you around and you will have a following.

>

> So we can only believe the " Fruits of the Spirit, and Love in the

Heart "

> and watch out for the riducoulous false prophets that make things

up as they

> go, and just quote, all they can find, from all religions, in the

name of

> God. It become a mix and match, thing and all we do is lead people

to think

> EVERYONE is right no matter WHAT they believe, so we will follow

whoever

> seems right at the time. Then we start following FALSE PROPHETS,

who made

> things up as they went. I could even go around and start a belief

if I so

> chose ( and you too) and sure I could have followers if I quoted

many

> religions and said ALL are welcome to partake what is offered, and

if you

> are hurting come, and I will help you find the TRUE path back to

God " And

> all such nonsense. Some would come, and I would get better and

better with

> time, at it. ( Placing focus on me) I once pastored a Reformed

Church for

> two years, and no minister wanted the church, they only had 7

people, I

> preached, started Sunday school etc, etc, and it grew by leaps and

bounds 50

> came, and that week I first saw so many in the little church in

Randall NY I

> was stunned, and said God what have you done? But I went on, with

the

> ministry, and many loved Jesus even, many really felt that they had

found

> the truth of God ( and probably so) the drunken people in the bar

across the

> street found ther way to the church, and I said, " Let them come,

as I

> cannot go to them and they come and can learn and meet our Lord "

They will

> change as the Spirit moves inside them, little by little. We will

meet them

> where they are, HURTING, And they did, Thank God, for that, never

ONCE did I

> lead people to ME just to Our Lord, so they could have relationship

with

> Him, NOT ME. Well the church Synod, after accepting me for two

years,

> decided I did not SUFFER with the Masters Of Divinity School at The

Reformed

> Church level and could not any longer do it, and they now had

found a

> RETIRED pastor who wanted the church...... Such nonsense goes

on.... Greed.

> The credential mean NOTHING to God, it is the FRUITS, and when we

get to

> paradise no one will ask to see our credentials giving us the

RIGHT, to do

> such and such, but it is the " Love and the Fruits of the spirit

that will

> be seen. "

>

> ( MY thougts on the subject, of All religions and ALL beliefs are

correct)

> What is our RELATIONSHIP to the ONE TRUE LORD? ( Am not disputing

the cool

> breeze, as I have felt that too and the vibrations etc) But where

does it

> come from ? God, the Spirit of ALL. ( Watch for the fruits, and the

love of

> the person....)

>

> Love,

> Carol Ann

>

>

> > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> >

> >

> > " I believe that this Spirit ...

will come

> >in time, to open this world to God "

> >Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:07:25 -0000

> >

> > , " Chuck "

> ><chuckhennigan@s...> wrote:

> > >

> > > It really is hard for me to understand how someone can be so

> > > judegmental and even harbor ill feelings toward someone else

just

> > > because of religion. Christianity teaches Love, but without the

> > > Holy Spirit, Carnal things of this world become more important

than

> > > Divine Love. The cool breeze from the Holy Spirit is the

comfortor

> > > that Jesus promised all of us. Shri Mataji came here to give

> > > everyone self realization and did this by teaching me that I am

a

> > > Spirit, that I am to forgive myself and everyone else, that I am

> > > not guilty, and I am my own master. Once I became self

realized, I

> > > was reborn of the Spirit, (realizing I am a Spirit). I then

wanted

> > > to become my own master which I am doing this through knowledge.

> > > But none of this is possible without the Divine Love of the Holy

> > > Spirit.

> > >

> >

> > " So it needs to be clearly said that the God presence of this Jesus

> >will lead us ultimately beyond every religious definition. Indeed,

it

> >will lead beyond Jesus himself. That becomes essential to human

> >development whenever our idolatrous convictions identify the

> >messenger of God with God. So the Ground of Being will finally be

> >worshipped apart from any system of religious thought. It is a

> >startling but real insight into the future of worship.

> >

> >I believe in that gift of the Spirit who was called " the giver of

> >life. " Once we located God only externally, and called this God the

> >Father Almighty. Next, we located this God in Jesus, and we called

> >him the Son Incarnate. Now we locate God in every person, and we

call

> >this God the Holy Spirit. I believe that this Spirit inevitably

> >creates a community of faith that will come, in time, to open this

> >world to God as the very Ground of its life and Being. . . .

> >

> >Religion is, therefore, not what we have always thought it to be.

> >Religion is not a system of belief. It is not a catalogue of

revealed

> >truth. It is not an activity designed to control behavior, to

reward

> >virtue, and to punish vice. Religion is, rather, a human attempt to

> >process the God experience, which breaks forth from our own depths

> >and wells up constantly within us. We must lay down, therefore, the

> >primitive claims we have made for our religious traditions. None of

> >them is drawn from outworldly revelations. None of them is inerrant

> >or infallible. None of them represents the only way to God. None of

> >them can be used legitimately to coerce or compel another to

belief.

> >All evangelical and missionary activities designed to convert the

> >heathen are base born. They are expressions of our sense of

> >superiority and our hostility toward those who are different. The

> >only divine mission in life that the Church of the future could

> >possibly have is to open people to the recognition that the ground

of

> >their very being is holy and that when they are in touch with that

> >holy Ground of Being, they can share in God's creation by giving

> >life, love, and being to others. That is the task of those who

claim

> >to be God bearers. The Christians of the world are not here to

build

> >institutions, to convert other people, or even to claim that we can

> >speak for God. Those aspects of our religious heritage must be

> >sacrificed as the premodern misunderstandings of our primitive

> >history. We are now exile people. "

> >

> >John Shelby Spong, Why Christianity Must Change Or Die: A Bishop

> >Speaks To Believers In Exile, HarperCollins Publishers, 1998, p.

224-

> >26.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

What I mean by pagan beliefs, are those who do not have faith, only in

satanism, and nothing at all. People who have not a belief in God, or even

trying to find God. The american Indians, had several but ONE A BOVE all

called " GREAT SPIRIT " so therefore they still believed in God, but not in

the name we use, which can happen. Did not say anything about Himduism or

the like they have Brahma, Vishnu and Shivah, the Creator, preserver and

destroyer who also boils down to the Three in one. Buddha was trying to find

enlightenment, but all the time it was within. ( Looking outside self is not

the answer for enlightenment) We all have God within and most beliefs will

recognize that i as true.

 

So, my idea of pagans are, witchcraft, satanism, atheists and people who

worship the negative and evil things of the world, or nothing at all. I

know some witches would call themselves WICCAs and say they have all

knowlege and are of the " white " witch, well whatever....So hope this helps

to answer the ques of how I see a pagan belief. A pagan will worship

anything, a stone, a leaf, anything even their finger, whatever seems right

at the time, but not God. We have people who worship 'money' that is a pagan

worship not a Godly thing as it is not OF God. Using it wrongly and

worshipping anything BUT God. ( The Almighty One) Hope this helps to calify

my thoughts.

 

Carol

 

 

> " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org

>

>

> What do fundamentalist bible-quoting

>Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

>Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:27:11 -0000

>

>

>Dear Carol,

>

>i really get uncomfortable when Christians start saying:

>

> " Hopefully in this FREE country founded on right to allow faiths,

>that we do not loose our Christianity, and become a melting pot of

>pagan beliefs, which to some extent has already happened. "

>

>Carol, since i know what they are actually meaning (because i have

>talked to them). Can you clarify " pagan beliefs " ? Are you refering to

>Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, and Islam by any chance? Do you

>love Shri Krishna, Buddha, Guru Nanak, Mahavira and Prophet Muhammad?

>

>After reading you last few posts i want to know more about your

>dislike of so-called pagan beliefs which is a standard trademark of

>all who are brainwashed by fanatical pastors. i have a friend who

>speaks just like you. i have stopped talking to her about anything

>spiritually because it is overwhemingly " my Jesus vs your pagan

>beliefs " lectures. So i know what fundamentaists Christians mean

>by " pagan " . Just want to know what you mean by those terms. Thanks.

>

>jagbir

>

>BTW, do you regard the deeply spiritual Indians who lived in America

>for thousands of years pagan too?

>

>

> , " danny weaver "

><cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

> >

> > It is so amazing to me how many different beliefs everyone holds,

>and yet

> > everyone thinks THEY have it RIGHT, and yet, they all want to BE

>ONE, and

> > think they are ALL RIGHT they say, on one hand, then they say, ONLY

>WE (

> > this group or that group) are RIght. It is surprising to me, as I

>have been

> > in the Pal talk chat rooms, to listen to various religions, and

>beliefs,

> > and some say , you do not need churches, you do not need anything

>just

> > relationship with Jesus. That may be true, but we need a main

>meeting place

> > to join in fellowship, to grow. Hopefully in this FREE country

>founded on

> > right to allow faiths, that we do not loose our Christianity, and

>become a

> > melting pot of pagan beliefs, which to some extent has already

>happened. We

> > do not want to upset anyone, of course, so we all say, it is ok to

>be a

> > homosexual, it is ok to molest children, it is ok, to steal,

>children, it is

> > ok to do anything, you please, as long as you SAY you have God

>speaking to

> > you, and Jesus within you, and the 'cool Breeze' or whatever they

>may say

> > they have, they can do anything. Well that is not true. " You will

>know them

> > by their fruits " so we know that even manson ( the killer and many

>others)

> > thought God was talking to them and telling them, Jim Jones, and

>many

> > others. We cannot dispute, what they think, but " You will know

>them by

> > their fruits " Their love for one another, and the NON judging and

>trying to

> > say WHO has the Jesus within and who does not as that is not up to

>us to

> > decide. " We will know them by their " fruits " What do they do for

>others,

> > how do they spend EACH waking moment? WHO are they REALLY? That is

>what it

> > has to do with. Jesus said " If you cannot live your brother/sister

>whom you

> > have seen, how can you love God who you have NOT seen? " " No one at

>ANY time

> > has SEEN God as God is Spirit and all must Worship Him in Spirit

>and truth "

> > Jesus yes, people have seen. as the FORM of God and we as the IMAGE

>of God.

> > But NOT God, at any time. We can ONLY know the true believer by

>their FRUITS

> > and how they LOVE others. But No, NO EVERYONE can be right, as

>their are way

> > too many people saying whatever they want and interpreting anyway

>they

> > please. No, uniformity in the belief, if you have a thought, anyone

>can open

> > a chat room, or go on TV, or do anything and teach anything, even

>say, "

> > This stone is God " if they WANT to, and THEY will have followers,

>some

> > people will believe if they are convincing enough. You can carry

>around a

> > piece of cotton and say God, came and cried on it, and His tears

>are there,

> > and everyone would follow you around and you will have a following.

> >

> > So we can only believe the " Fruits of the Spirit, and Love in the

>Heart "

> > and watch out for the riducoulous false prophets that make things

>up as they

> > go, and just quote, all they can find, from all religions, in the

>name of

> > God. It become a mix and match, thing and all we do is lead people

>to think

> > EVERYONE is right no matter WHAT they believe, so we will follow

>whoever

> > seems right at the time. Then we start following FALSE PROPHETS,

>who made

> > things up as they went. I could even go around and start a belief

>if I so

> > chose ( and you too) and sure I could have followers if I quoted

>many

> > religions and said ALL are welcome to partake what is offered, and

>if you

> > are hurting come, and I will help you find the TRUE path back to

>God " And

> > all such nonsense. Some would come, and I would get better and

>better with

> > time, at it. ( Placing focus on me) I once pastored a Reformed

>Church for

> > two years, and no minister wanted the church, they only had 7

>people, I

> > preached, started Sunday school etc, etc, and it grew by leaps and

>bounds 50

> > came, and that week I first saw so many in the little church in

>Randall NY I

> > was stunned, and said God what have you done? But I went on, with

>the

> > ministry, and many loved Jesus even, many really felt that they had

>found

> > the truth of God ( and probably so) the drunken people in the bar

>across the

> > street found ther way to the church, and I said, " Let them come,

>as I

> > cannot go to them and they come and can learn and meet our Lord "

>They will

> > change as the Spirit moves inside them, little by little. We will

>meet them

> > where they are, HURTING, And they did, Thank God, for that, never

>ONCE did I

> > lead people to ME just to Our Lord, so they could have relationship

>with

> > Him, NOT ME. Well the church Synod, after accepting me for two

>years,

> > decided I did not SUFFER with the Masters Of Divinity School at The

>Reformed

> > Church level and could not any longer do it, and they now had

>found a

> > RETIRED pastor who wanted the church...... Such nonsense goes

>on.... Greed.

> > The credential mean NOTHING to God, it is the FRUITS, and when we

>get to

> > paradise no one will ask to see our credentials giving us the

>RIGHT, to do

> > such and such, but it is the " Love and the Fruits of the spirit

>that will

> > be seen. "

> >

> > ( MY thougts on the subject, of All religions and ALL beliefs are

>correct)

> > What is our RELATIONSHIP to the ONE TRUE LORD? ( Am not disputing

>the cool

> > breeze, as I have felt that too and the vibrations etc) But where

>does it

> > come from ? God, the Spirit of ALL. ( Watch for the fruits, and the

>love of

> > the person....)

> >

> > Love,

> > Carol Ann

> >

> >

> > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> > >

> > >

> > > " I believe that this Spirit ...

>will come

> > >in time, to open this world to God "

> > >Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:07:25 -0000

> > >

> > > , " Chuck "

> > ><chuckhennigan@s...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > It really is hard for me to understand how someone can be so

> > > > judegmental and even harbor ill feelings toward someone else

>just

> > > > because of religion. Christianity teaches Love, but without the

> > > > Holy Spirit, Carnal things of this world become more important

>than

> > > > Divine Love. The cool breeze from the Holy Spirit is the

>comfortor

> > > > that Jesus promised all of us. Shri Mataji came here to give

> > > > everyone self realization and did this by teaching me that I am

>a

> > > > Spirit, that I am to forgive myself and everyone else, that I am

> > > > not guilty, and I am my own master. Once I became self

>realized, I

> > > > was reborn of the Spirit, (realizing I am a Spirit). I then

>wanted

> > > > to become my own master which I am doing this through knowledge.

> > > > But none of this is possible without the Divine Love of the Holy

> > > > Spirit.

> > > >

> > >

> > > " So it needs to be clearly said that the God presence of this Jesus

> > >will lead us ultimately beyond every religious definition. Indeed,

>it

> > >will lead beyond Jesus himself. That becomes essential to human

> > >development whenever our idolatrous convictions identify the

> > >messenger of God with God. So the Ground of Being will finally be

> > >worshipped apart from any system of religious thought. It is a

> > >startling but real insight into the future of worship.

> > >

> > >I believe in that gift of the Spirit who was called " the giver of

> > >life. " Once we located God only externally, and called this God the

> > >Father Almighty. Next, we located this God in Jesus, and we called

> > >him the Son Incarnate. Now we locate God in every person, and we

>call

> > >this God the Holy Spirit. I believe that this Spirit inevitably

> > >creates a community of faith that will come, in time, to open this

> > >world to God as the very Ground of its life and Being. . . .

> > >

> > >Religion is, therefore, not what we have always thought it to be.

> > >Religion is not a system of belief. It is not a catalogue of

>revealed

> > >truth. It is not an activity designed to control behavior, to

>reward

> > >virtue, and to punish vice. Religion is, rather, a human attempt to

> > >process the God experience, which breaks forth from our own depths

> > >and wells up constantly within us. We must lay down, therefore, the

> > >primitive claims we have made for our religious traditions. None of

> > >them is drawn from outworldly revelations. None of them is inerrant

> > >or infallible. None of them represents the only way to God. None of

> > >them can be used legitimately to coerce or compel another to

>belief.

> > >All evangelical and missionary activities designed to convert the

> > >heathen are base born. They are expressions of our sense of

> > >superiority and our hostility toward those who are different. The

> > >only divine mission in life that the Church of the future could

> > >possibly have is to open people to the recognition that the ground

>of

> > >their very being is holy and that when they are in touch with that

> > >holy Ground of Being, they can share in God's creation by giving

> > >life, love, and being to others. That is the task of those who

>claim

> > >to be God bearers. The Christians of the world are not here to

>build

> > >institutions, to convert other people, or even to claim that we can

> > >speak for God. Those aspects of our religious heritage must be

> > >sacrificed as the premodern misunderstandings of our primitive

> > >history. We are now exile people. "

> > >

> > >John Shelby Spong, Why Christianity Must Change Or Die: A Bishop

> > >Speaks To Believers In Exile, HarperCollins Publishers, 1998, p.

>224-

> > >26.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Carol,

 

That is indeed interesting and your Sahaj background have made you

appreciate how other cultures look at the Divine.

 

Since God Almighty exists with us as The Light, is this a Christian,

Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or Sikh God? Is the Divine within

humanity One and the Same?

 

i would really appreciate if you answer these questions because

pastors teach quite the opposite. Christianity, just like Islam, is

against divinity within humans. So how come your views conflict with

the church Carol?

 

warmest regards,

 

 

jagbir

 

, " danny weaver "

<cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

>

> What I mean by pagan beliefs, are those who do not have faith, only

in

> satanism, and nothing at all. People who have not a belief in God,

or even

> trying to find God. The american Indians, had several but ONE A

BOVE all

> called " GREAT SPIRIT " so therefore they still believed in God, but

not in

> the name we use, which can happen. Did not say anything about

Himduism or

> the like they have Brahma, Vishnu and Shivah, the Creator,

preserver and

> destroyer who also boils down to the Three in one. Buddha was

trying to find

> enlightenment, but all the time it was within. ( Looking outside

self is not

> the answer for enlightenment) We all have God within and most

beliefs will

> recognize that i as true.

>

> So, my idea of pagans are, witchcraft, satanism, atheists and

people who

> worship the negative and evil things of the world, or nothing at

all. I

> know some witches would call themselves WICCAs and say they have

all

> knowlege and are of the " white " witch, well whatever....So hope

this helps

> to answer the ques of how I see a pagan belief. A pagan will

worship

> anything, a stone, a leaf, anything even their finger, whatever

seems right

> at the time, but not God. We have people who worship 'money' that

is a pagan

> worship not a Godly thing as it is not OF God. Using it wrongly and

> worshipping anything BUT God. ( The Almighty One) Hope this helps

to calify

> my thoughts.

>

> Carol

>

>

> > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> >

> >

> > What do fundamentalist bible-

quoting

> >Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

> >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:27:11 -0000

> >

> >

> >Dear Carol,

> >

> >i really get uncomfortable when Christians start saying:

> >

> > " Hopefully in this FREE country founded on right to allow faiths,

> >that we do not loose our Christianity, and become a melting pot of

> >pagan beliefs, which to some extent has already happened. "

> >

> >Carol, since i know what they are actually meaning (because i have

> >talked to them). Can you clarify " pagan beliefs " ? Are you refering

to

> >Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, and Islam by any chance? Do

you

> >love Shri Krishna, Buddha, Guru Nanak, Mahavira and Prophet

Muhammad?

> >

> >After reading you last few posts i want to know more about your

> >dislike of so-called pagan beliefs which is a standard trademark of

> >all who are brainwashed by fanatical pastors. i have a friend who

> >speaks just like you. i have stopped talking to her about anything

> >spiritually because it is overwhemingly " my Jesus vs your pagan

> >beliefs " lectures. So i know what fundamentaists Christians mean

> >by " pagan " . Just want to know what you mean by those terms. Thanks.

> >

> >jagbir

> >

> >BTW, do you regard the deeply spiritual Indians who lived in

America

> >for thousands of years pagan too?

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Jagbir,

 

I feel if they see God, as the Almighty and Jesus as The Chrsit, who came to

save us from sins, then they are using different names to come to same

conclusion. So they may be the same, as long as they see God, as God, ( a

spirit who all worship in spirit and truth, nebver to be seen by people on

Earth) And Christ as 'annointed' and Begotten of the Father, who they DID

see, and so He could overcome all evil of the Earth showing us it can be

done. Also as the second Adam, and mary as second Eve, and completing what

was not completed, in garden of eden. Then it is the same. Also I see, All

of us brothers and sisters on earth. ABLE to be one, when we all are willing

to believe this correctly and not forsake this truth, and not worship any

false god or belief. We are all made in the IMAGE of God( not the likeness)

the likeness comes with the fruits of the spirit, spoken of in Galatians ch

5) and that comes with being filled with the Holy Spierit the fruits will be

manifested, and gifts given. The likeness is hardest to achieve, but we all

have the IMAGE no matter what culture you are from. People have choices to

follow the correct truth or not. We are to have no gods, other then THE GOD,

that is important. Not saying there is not other gods, or saints, or angels

( who have been made or created by God) BUT Jesus is the ONLY one BEGOTTEN

of God the Father. We are adopted, as you would say into the family by our

beliefs and filling with Holy Spirit and baptisms and following what He

taught. The Orthodox DO believe that we are made in the IMAGE of God,, ( all

people, All cultures) but to achieve the likeness takes time. People have a

desire to sin, and need to fight that desire within them each day. They even

cense the people with insense as to honor their Image ( but not worship of

course) and they venerate icons, seeing not the material of them but the

Saint as people on Earth feeling that Earth and the after life is one and

the same, except we cannot normally SEE the spirits. Well anyway, kind of

long, but that is what I am understanding. ( And see Heaven and Earth

together as one, so we have negative sprits too, that we need to struggle

with each day) We need to PRAY to God, and Jesus and can ask for assistance

from each other, of course, but also from the Saints and angels, on daily

basis. We ARE protected from evil as we ASK, for help on the Earth. Yes God

lives inside EACH of us, making the IMAGE of God there to be matured, and we

choose to grow in likeness, by faith, and using fruits and gifts given as

after being filed with Holy Spirit.

 

Carol

 

 

> " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org

>

>

> Re: What do fundamentalist bible-quoting

>Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

>Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:54:00 -0000

>

>

>

>Dear Carol,

>

>That is indeed interesting and your Sahaj background have made you

>appreciate how other cultures look at the Divine.

>

>Since God Almighty exists with us as The Light, is this a Christian,

>Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or Sikh God? Is the Divine within

>humanity One and the Same?

>

>i would really appreciate if you answer these questions because

>pastors teach quite the opposite. Christianity, just like Islam, is

>against divinity within humans. So how come your views conflict with

>the church Carol?

>

>warmest regards,

>

>

>jagbir

>

> , " danny weaver "

><cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

> >

> > What I mean by pagan beliefs, are those who do not have faith, only

>in

> > satanism, and nothing at all. People who have not a belief in God,

>or even

> > trying to find God. The american Indians, had several but ONE A

>BOVE all

> > called " GREAT SPIRIT " so therefore they still believed in God, but

>not in

> > the name we use, which can happen. Did not say anything about

>Himduism or

> > the like they have Brahma, Vishnu and Shivah, the Creator,

>preserver and

> > destroyer who also boils down to the Three in one. Buddha was

>trying to find

> > enlightenment, but all the time it was within. ( Looking outside

>self is not

> > the answer for enlightenment) We all have God within and most

>beliefs will

> > recognize that i as true.

> >

> > So, my idea of pagans are, witchcraft, satanism, atheists and

>people who

> > worship the negative and evil things of the world, or nothing at

>all. I

> > know some witches would call themselves WICCAs and say they have

>all

> > knowlege and are of the " white " witch, well whatever....So hope

>this helps

> > to answer the ques of how I see a pagan belief. A pagan will

>worship

> > anything, a stone, a leaf, anything even their finger, whatever

>seems right

> > at the time, but not God. We have people who worship 'money' that

>is a pagan

> > worship not a Godly thing as it is not OF God. Using it wrongly and

> > worshipping anything BUT God. ( The Almighty One) Hope this helps

>to calify

> > my thoughts.

> >

> > Carol

> >

> >

> > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> > >

> > >

> > > What do fundamentalist bible-

>quoting

> > >Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

> > >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:27:11 -0000

> > >

> > >

> > >Dear Carol,

> > >

> > >i really get uncomfortable when Christians start saying:

> > >

> > > " Hopefully in this FREE country founded on right to allow faiths,

> > >that we do not loose our Christianity, and become a melting pot of

> > >pagan beliefs, which to some extent has already happened. "

> > >

> > >Carol, since i know what they are actually meaning (because i have

> > >talked to them). Can you clarify " pagan beliefs " ? Are you refering

>to

> > >Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, and Islam by any chance? Do

>you

> > >love Shri Krishna, Buddha, Guru Nanak, Mahavira and Prophet

>Muhammad?

> > >

> > >After reading you last few posts i want to know more about your

> > >dislike of so-called pagan beliefs which is a standard trademark of

> > >all who are brainwashed by fanatical pastors. i have a friend who

> > >speaks just like you. i have stopped talking to her about anything

> > >spiritually because it is overwhemingly " my Jesus vs your pagan

> > >beliefs " lectures. So i know what fundamentaists Christians mean

> > >by " pagan " . Just want to know what you mean by those terms. Thanks.

> > >

> > >jagbir

> > >

> > >BTW, do you regard the deeply spiritual Indians who lived in

>America

> > >for thousands of years pagan too?

> > >

> > >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Carol,

 

i am actually asking you if Almighty God is One and the same i.e.,

Hindus view Him as Brahman and need not know about Christ to know

Him, or Muslims see Him as Allah and regard Christ as just another

prophet, and Sikhs see view Him as Waheguru without ever accepting

Christ as some who died for anyones sins (if ever that is the case),

and the North American Indians who knew the Great Spirit thousands of

years before Christ.

 

You seem to use only Christian pastels to draw God, stenciling and

shading it with drab Bible greys. i am talking about the vibrant

colours that other cultures use to portray God, a Divine Being that

is within me too as Light. i want to know if you see the same colors,

or is it just a black and white portrait for you. Can you clarify

this if that is the case, that God is the same for all humans

irrespective of their belief or knowledge of Jesus?

 

BTW, you should know the Hindus knew Brahman (not Brahma) in far

greater depth and detail than any other culture. He has no image and

no temple is dedicated to Him. Their description of Brahman is beyond

anything known to humans, and i marvel at their unsurpassed

enlightenment. We are talking about His existence before even time

began ticking. i will be able to understand Him only through Silence,

not intellectualization and comparision with any other messenger. Is

He the same God you are referring to?

 

warmest regards,

 

 

 

jazgbir

 

 

, " danny weaver "

<cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

>

> Dear Jagbir,

>

> I feel if they see God, as the Almighty and Jesus as The Chrsit,

who came to

> save us from sins, then they are using different names to come to

same

> conclusion. So they may be the same, as long as they see God, as

God, ( a

> spirit who all worship in spirit and truth, nebver to be seen by

people on

> Earth) And Christ as 'annointed' and Begotten of the Father, who

they DID

> see, and so He could overcome all evil of the Earth showing us it

can be

> done. Also as the second Adam, and mary as second Eve, and

completing what

> was not completed, in garden of eden. Then it is the same. Also I

see, All

> of us brothers and sisters on earth. ABLE to be one, when we all

are willing

> to believe this correctly and not forsake this truth, and not

worship any

> false god or belief. We are all made in the IMAGE of God( not the

likeness)

> the likeness comes with the fruits of the spirit, spoken of in

Galatians ch

> 5) and that comes with being filled with the Holy Spierit the

fruits will be

> manifested, and gifts given. The likeness is hardest to achieve,

but we all

> have the IMAGE no matter what culture you are from. People have

choices to

> follow the correct truth or not. We are to have no gods, other then

THE GOD,

> that is important. Not saying there is not other gods, or saints,

or angels

> ( who have been made or created by God) BUT Jesus is the ONLY one

BEGOTTEN

> of God the Father. We are adopted, as you would say into the family

by our

> beliefs and filling with Holy Spirit and baptisms and following

what He

> taught. The Orthodox DO believe that we are made in the IMAGE of

God,, ( all

> people, All cultures) but to achieve the likeness takes time.

People have a

> desire to sin, and need to fight that desire within them each day.

They even

> cense the people with insense as to honor their Image ( but not

worship of

> course) and they venerate icons, seeing not the material of them

but the

> Saint as people on Earth feeling that Earth and the after life is

one and

> the same, except we cannot normally SEE the spirits. Well anyway,

kind of

> long, but that is what I am understanding. ( And see Heaven and

Earth

> together as one, so we have negative sprits too, that we need to

struggle

> with each day) We need to PRAY to God, and Jesus and can ask for

assistance

> from each other, of course, but also from the Saints and angels, on

daily

> basis. We ARE protected from evil as we ASK, for help on the Earth.

Yes God

> lives inside EACH of us, making the IMAGE of God there to be

matured, and we

> choose to grow in likeness, by faith, and using fruits and gifts

given as

> after being filed with Holy Spirit.

>

> Carol

>

>

> > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> >

> >

> > Re: What do fundamentalist bible-

quoting

> >Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

> >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:54:00 -0000

> >

> >

> >

> >Dear Carol,

> >

> >That is indeed interesting and your Sahaj background have made you

> >appreciate how other cultures look at the Divine.

> >

> >Since God Almighty exists with us as The Light, is this a

Christian,

> >Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or Sikh God? Is the Divine within

> >humanity One and the Same?

> >

> >i would really appreciate if you answer these questions because

> >pastors teach quite the opposite. Christianity, just like Islam, is

> >against divinity within humans. So how come your views conflict

with

> >the church Carol?

> >

> >warmest regards,

> >

> >

> >jagbir

> >

> > , " danny weaver "

> ><cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

> > >

> > > What I mean by pagan beliefs, are those who do not have faith,

only

> >in

> > > satanism, and nothing at all. People who have not a belief in

God,

> >or even

> > > trying to find God. The american Indians, had several but ONE A

> >BOVE all

> > > called " GREAT SPIRIT " so therefore they still believed in God,

but

> >not in

> > > the name we use, which can happen. Did not say anything about

> >Himduism or

> > > the like they have Brahma, Vishnu and Shivah, the Creator,

> >preserver and

> > > destroyer who also boils down to the Three in one. Buddha was

> >trying to find

> > > enlightenment, but all the time it was within. ( Looking outside

> >self is not

> > > the answer for enlightenment) We all have God within and most

> >beliefs will

> > > recognize that i as true.

> > >

> > > So, my idea of pagans are, witchcraft, satanism, atheists and

> >people who

> > > worship the negative and evil things of the world, or nothing at

> >all. I

> > > know some witches would call themselves WICCAs and say they have

> >all

> > > knowlege and are of the " white " witch, well whatever....So hope

> >this helps

> > > to answer the ques of how I see a pagan belief. A pagan will

> >worship

> > > anything, a stone, a leaf, anything even their finger, whatever

> >seems right

> > > at the time, but not God. We have people who worship 'money'

that

> >is a pagan

> > > worship not a Godly thing as it is not OF God. Using it wrongly

and

> > > worshipping anything BUT God. ( The Almighty One) Hope this

helps

> >to calify

> > > my thoughts.

> > >

> > > Carol

> > >

> > >

> > > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > What do fundamentalist bible-

> >quoting

> > > >Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

> > > >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:27:11 -0000

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >Dear Carol,

> > > >

> > > >i really get uncomfortable when Christians start saying:

> > > >

> > > > " Hopefully in this FREE country founded on right to allow

faiths,

> > > >that we do not loose our Christianity, and become a melting

pot of

> > > >pagan beliefs, which to some extent has already happened. "

> > > >

> > > >Carol, since i know what they are actually meaning (because i

have

> > > >talked to them). Can you clarify " pagan beliefs " ? Are you

refering

> >to

> > > >Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, and Islam by any chance?

Do

> >you

> > > >love Shri Krishna, Buddha, Guru Nanak, Mahavira and Prophet

> >Muhammad?

> > > >

> > > >After reading you last few posts i want to know more about your

> > > >dislike of so-called pagan beliefs which is a standard

trademark of

> > > >all who are brainwashed by fanatical pastors. i have a friend

who

> > > >speaks just like you. i have stopped talking to her about

anything

> > > >spiritually because it is overwhemingly " my Jesus vs your pagan

> > > >beliefs " lectures. So i know what fundamentaists Christians

mean

> > > >by " pagan " . Just want to know what you mean by those terms.

Thanks.

> > > >

> > > >jagbir

> > > >

> > > >BTW, do you regard the deeply spiritual Indians who lived in

> >America

> > > >for thousands of years pagan too?

> > > >

> > > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I think they are worshipping the same God with different names......

but Jesus is begotten and did come to Earth, so that part may be left out.

Jews believe in the One TRUE God too, but do not believe that the messiah

came to save us, and are waiting yet. We are waiting for the second coming,

and believe Sahaja Yogas see Shri mataji as the second coming bringing the

Holy Spirit, but ONE comes yet to judge, as Jesus did not Judge and neither

is Shri Mataji here to judgem, and she had a duty to fulfill, perhaps with

Holy Spirit, maybe, but I am now waiting for Jesus to come, AGAIN.... But

YES same God, but SOME religions do not believe that Christ is part of God

and came to save them so thus are not CHRISTIAN as CHRISTIANS believed in

Chirst, that is the ROOT of the word. So they are NOT PAGANS, if they

believe in GOD, and it is the SAME GOD, but they forgot a part and left it

out, the part that makes a Christian is the belief in Christ. The Prophets

came as they all had a DUTY to perform, ( and hopefully could do it as we

have choices..) Mary could have said " no " to Gabrielle, and the Prophets

can refuse to do what they came to do as Adam and Eve slipped and got side

tracked with the serpent... But they came with a purpose, but they were NOT

God.

 

Hope this helps... Am trying to explain my thoughts best I can, and beliefs

I have had since a child. I grew up Protestant, and also knew of Roman

Catholics and Now Orthodox, have checked Quakers, have checked out

charismatic, have checked outJehovah Witness, Have checked out many

religions seeking over the years, and Metaphysics, etc etc etc. Even

preached two years in a Reformed church in which no one wanted to minister

to and it grew by leaps and bounds only to be told that I was not ORDAINED

by the Reformed Church ministry so had to stop ( they , the Synod allowed

it, but then found a retired minister so they did not need me, but that was

ok, it was a experience and meant for that time and no longer) Mentioned to

you before I know.... but hope it helps to exlpain better my thoughts....

YES SAME GOD, being worshipped, by different names, BUT some leave out

CHRIST and do nt believe He came to die and rise for us to live forever,

and that makes one a CHRISTIAN. I needed to seek and find. Now with Sahaja

Yoga, yes, I loved it, and being in it and my husband, also and met many

great friends, and some stayed in our home for pujas, as sisters. But I did

not see Shri Mataji as GOD.... That is what I mean.... That is my thing,

maybe a prophet or divine being sent but NOT as God, I cannot get to SE

that, nor my husband. Also, did get cool breeze and vibrations, BUT that

comes from within as it is the MOTHER within the Kundalini maybe not Shri

Mataji? I am afraid to worship her as she may not be God.... That is what my

thoughts are.

Must get it righteverlasting life is counted on it, and lives of others if I

take them down wrong turn in road.. I see flaws in all religions of course,

and so I guess it is the way it is. BUT just do not see Shri Mataji as God

so how can I WORSHIP her like others? I am not saying that I counterdict all

you say, but that is the problem, and could not afford Pujas. I am on

disability for back surgery I had and miracle is not happening. ( Well maybe

that I am not paralized or dead forom Staph is the miracle.) Was doing

Sahaja Yoga at the time, from lying in bed in body cast and used ophone to

help Yogis and yoginis to find places to stay while here for Puja. Was glad

to help, at least could do something. My mouth and arms worked. My husband

went to the Puja without me, and I was excited for him that year and could

not wait till he told me about it all. We were in it for about 4 years or 5

years. Decided it would be hard to keep paying for Pujas, and could not

worship Shri Mataji with doubts of her being God.

 

Blessings,

 

Carol

 

> " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org

>

>

> Re: What do fundamentalist bible-quoting

>Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

>Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:07:24 -0000

>

>

>Dear Carol,

>

>i am actually asking you if Almighty God is One and the same i.e.,

>Hindus view Him as Brahman and need not know about Christ to know

>Him, or Muslims see Him as Allah and regard Christ as just another

>prophet, and Sikhs see view Him as Waheguru without ever accepting

>Christ as some who died for anyones sins (if ever that is the case),

>and the North American Indians who knew the Great Spirit thousands of

>years before Christ.

>

>You seem to use only Christian pastels to draw God, stenciling and

>shading it with drab Bible greys. i am talking about the vibrant

>colours that other cultures use to portray God, a Divine Being that

>is within me too as Light. i want to know if you see the same colors,

>or is it just a black and white portrait for you. Can you clarify

>this if that is the case, that God is the same for all humans

>irrespective of their belief or knowledge of Jesus?

>

>BTW, you should know the Hindus knew Brahman (not Brahma) in far

>greater depth and detail than any other culture. He has no image and

>no temple is dedicated to Him. Their description of Brahman is beyond

>anything known to humans, and i marvel at their unsurpassed

>enlightenment. We are talking about His existence before even time

>began ticking. i will be able to understand Him only through Silence,

>not intellectualization and comparision with any other messenger. Is

>He the same God you are referring to?

>

>warmest regards,

>

>

>

>jazgbir

>

>

> , " danny weaver "

><cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Jagbir,

> >

> > I feel if they see God, as the Almighty and Jesus as The Chrsit,

>who came to

> > save us from sins, then they are using different names to come to

>same

> > conclusion. So they may be the same, as long as they see God, as

>God, ( a

> > spirit who all worship in spirit and truth, nebver to be seen by

>people on

> > Earth) And Christ as 'annointed' and Begotten of the Father, who

>they DID

> > see, and so He could overcome all evil of the Earth showing us it

>can be

> > done. Also as the second Adam, and mary as second Eve, and

>completing what

> > was not completed, in garden of eden. Then it is the same. Also I

>see, All

> > of us brothers and sisters on earth. ABLE to be one, when we all

>are willing

> > to believe this correctly and not forsake this truth, and not

>worship any

> > false god or belief. We are all made in the IMAGE of God( not the

>likeness)

> > the likeness comes with the fruits of the spirit, spoken of in

>Galatians ch

> > 5) and that comes with being filled with the Holy Spierit the

>fruits will be

> > manifested, and gifts given. The likeness is hardest to achieve,

>but we all

> > have the IMAGE no matter what culture you are from. People have

>choices to

> > follow the correct truth or not. We are to have no gods, other then

>THE GOD,

> > that is important. Not saying there is not other gods, or saints,

>or angels

> > ( who have been made or created by God) BUT Jesus is the ONLY one

>BEGOTTEN

> > of God the Father. We are adopted, as you would say into the family

>by our

> > beliefs and filling with Holy Spirit and baptisms and following

>what He

> > taught. The Orthodox DO believe that we are made in the IMAGE of

>God,, ( all

> > people, All cultures) but to achieve the likeness takes time.

>People have a

> > desire to sin, and need to fight that desire within them each day.

>They even

> > cense the people with insense as to honor their Image ( but not

>worship of

> > course) and they venerate icons, seeing not the material of them

>but the

> > Saint as people on Earth feeling that Earth and the after life is

>one and

> > the same, except we cannot normally SEE the spirits. Well anyway,

>kind of

> > long, but that is what I am understanding. ( And see Heaven and

>Earth

> > together as one, so we have negative sprits too, that we need to

>struggle

> > with each day) We need to PRAY to God, and Jesus and can ask for

>assistance

> > from each other, of course, but also from the Saints and angels, on

>daily

> > basis. We ARE protected from evil as we ASK, for help on the Earth.

>Yes God

> > lives inside EACH of us, making the IMAGE of God there to be

>matured, and we

> > choose to grow in likeness, by faith, and using fruits and gifts

>given as

> > after being filed with Holy Spirit.

> >

> > Carol

> >

> >

> > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> > >

> > >

> > > Re: What do fundamentalist bible-

>quoting

> > >Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

> > >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:54:00 -0000

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >Dear Carol,

> > >

> > >That is indeed interesting and your Sahaj background have made you

> > >appreciate how other cultures look at the Divine.

> > >

> > >Since God Almighty exists with us as The Light, is this a

>Christian,

> > >Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or Sikh God? Is the Divine within

> > >humanity One and the Same?

> > >

> > >i would really appreciate if you answer these questions because

> > >pastors teach quite the opposite. Christianity, just like Islam, is

> > >against divinity within humans. So how come your views conflict

>with

> > >the church Carol?

> > >

> > >warmest regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >jagbir

> > >

> > > , " danny weaver "

> > ><cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > What I mean by pagan beliefs, are those who do not have faith,

>only

> > >in

> > > > satanism, and nothing at all. People who have not a belief in

>God,

> > >or even

> > > > trying to find God. The american Indians, had several but ONE A

> > >BOVE all

> > > > called " GREAT SPIRIT " so therefore they still believed in God,

>but

> > >not in

> > > > the name we use, which can happen. Did not say anything about

> > >Himduism or

> > > > the like they have Brahma, Vishnu and Shivah, the Creator,

> > >preserver and

> > > > destroyer who also boils down to the Three in one. Buddha was

> > >trying to find

> > > > enlightenment, but all the time it was within. ( Looking outside

> > >self is not

> > > > the answer for enlightenment) We all have God within and most

> > >beliefs will

> > > > recognize that i as true.

> > > >

> > > > So, my idea of pagans are, witchcraft, satanism, atheists and

> > >people who

> > > > worship the negative and evil things of the world, or nothing at

> > >all. I

> > > > know some witches would call themselves WICCAs and say they have

> > >all

> > > > knowlege and are of the " white " witch, well whatever....So hope

> > >this helps

> > > > to answer the ques of how I see a pagan belief. A pagan will

> > >worship

> > > > anything, a stone, a leaf, anything even their finger, whatever

> > >seems right

> > > > at the time, but not God. We have people who worship 'money'

>that

> > >is a pagan

> > > > worship not a Godly thing as it is not OF God. Using it wrongly

>and

> > > > worshipping anything BUT God. ( The Almighty One) Hope this

>helps

> > >to calify

> > > > my thoughts.

> > > >

> > > > Carol

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > What do fundamentalist bible-

> > >quoting

> > > > >Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

> > > > >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:27:11 -0000

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >Dear Carol,

> > > > >

> > > > >i really get uncomfortable when Christians start saying:

> > > > >

> > > > > " Hopefully in this FREE country founded on right to allow

>faiths,

> > > > >that we do not loose our Christianity, and become a melting

>pot of

> > > > >pagan beliefs, which to some extent has already happened. "

> > > > >

> > > > >Carol, since i know what they are actually meaning (because i

>have

> > > > >talked to them). Can you clarify " pagan beliefs " ? Are you

>refering

> > >to

> > > > >Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, and Islam by any chance?

>Do

> > >you

> > > > >love Shri Krishna, Buddha, Guru Nanak, Mahavira and Prophet

> > >Muhammad?

> > > > >

> > > > >After reading you last few posts i want to know more about your

> > > > >dislike of so-called pagan beliefs which is a standard

>trademark of

> > > > >all who are brainwashed by fanatical pastors. i have a friend

>who

> > > > >speaks just like you. i have stopped talking to her about

>anything

> > > > >spiritually because it is overwhemingly " my Jesus vs your pagan

> > > > >beliefs " lectures. So i know what fundamentaists Christians

>mean

> > > > >by " pagan " . Just want to know what you mean by those terms.

>Thanks.

> > > > >

> > > > >jagbir

> > > > >

> > > > >BTW, do you regard the deeply spiritual Indians who lived in

> > >America

> > > > >for thousands of years pagan too?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Carol and Jagbir,

 

I also believe that Jesus will come back and everyone will be judged.

How this will work, I am not sure. I know Shri Mataji talked about

this also. There are questions I think Jagbir and Carol are asking

which are very good questions. What about the people who never heard

of or knew Jesus, but believe in God and lived a pure life? How will

they be judged? What about people who were born before Jesus came to

this earth? Are all these people reincarnated and then told about

Jesus? Did Jesus actually say he died on the cross to save us? If

people just believe in Jesus, yet do as they wish, live a carnal life

and not a pure life, how will they be judged? I do not know the

answers to these questions.

 

I think the Holy Spirit is in each and every one of us and will guide

us to a pure life and show each of us the Divine Love of God. I think

the Holy Spirit is the key. I think Carol that we must seek these

answers from within with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I also

think it will help if we share scriptures from the Bible, share

things from which Shri Mataji says also, and learn from Jesus himself

and what he said. I do not know all the answers but hopefully we can

share with each other and learn truths from each other regarding

these questions.

 

Love,

 

Chuck

 

, " danny weaver "

<cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

>

> Yes, I think they are worshipping the same God with different

names......

> but Jesus is begotten and did come to Earth, so that part may be

left out.

> Jews believe in the One TRUE God too, but do not believe that the

messiah

> came to save us, and are waiting yet. We are waiting for the second

coming,

> and believe Sahaja Yogas see Shri mataji as the second coming

bringing the

> Holy Spirit, but ONE comes yet to judge, as Jesus did not Judge and

neither

> is Shri Mataji here to judgem, and she had a duty to fulfill,

perhaps with

> Holy Spirit, maybe, but I am now waiting for Jesus to come,

AGAIN.... But

> YES same God, but SOME religions do not believe that Christ is part

of God

> and came to save them so thus are not CHRISTIAN as CHRISTIANS

believed in

> Chirst, that is the ROOT of the word. So they are NOT PAGANS, if

they

> believe in GOD, and it is the SAME GOD, but they forgot a part and

left it

> out, the part that makes a Christian is the belief in Christ. The

Prophets

> came as they all had a DUTY to perform, ( and hopefully could do it

as we

> have choices..) Mary could have said " no " to Gabrielle, and the

Prophets

> can refuse to do what they came to do as Adam and Eve slipped and

got side

> tracked with the serpent... But they came with a purpose, but they

were NOT

> God.

>

> Hope this helps... Am trying to explain my thoughts best I can, and

beliefs

> I have had since a child. I grew up Protestant, and also knew of

Roman

> Catholics and Now Orthodox, have checked Quakers, have checked out

> charismatic, have checked outJehovah Witness, Have checked out many

> religions seeking over the years, and Metaphysics, etc etc etc.

Even

> preached two years in a Reformed church in which no one wanted to

minister

> to and it grew by leaps and bounds only to be told that I was not

ORDAINED

> by the Reformed Church ministry so had to stop ( they , the Synod

allowed

> it, but then found a retired minister so they did not need me, but

that was

> ok, it was a experience and meant for that time and no longer)

Mentioned to

> you before I know.... but hope it helps to exlpain better my

thoughts....

> YES SAME GOD, being worshipped, by different names, BUT some leave

out

> CHRIST and do nt believe He came to die and rise for us to live

forever,

> and that makes one a CHRISTIAN. I needed to seek and find. Now with

Sahaja

> Yoga, yes, I loved it, and being in it and my husband, also and met

many

> great friends, and some stayed in our home for pujas, as sisters.

But I did

> not see Shri Mataji as GOD.... That is what I mean.... That is my

thing,

> maybe a prophet or divine being sent but NOT as God, I cannot get

to SE

> that, nor my husband. Also, did get cool breeze and vibrations, BUT

that

> comes from within as it is the MOTHER within the Kundalini maybe

not Shri

> Mataji? I am afraid to worship her as she may not be God.... That

is what my

> thoughts are.

> Must get it righteverlasting life is counted on it, and lives of

others if I

> take them down wrong turn in road.. I see flaws in all religions of

course,

> and so I guess it is the way it is. BUT just do not see Shri Mataji

as God

> so how can I WORSHIP her like others? I am not saying that I

counterdict all

> you say, but that is the problem, and could not afford Pujas. I am

on

> disability for back surgery I had and miracle is not happening. (

Well maybe

> that I am not paralized or dead forom Staph is the miracle.) Was

doing

> Sahaja Yoga at the time, from lying in bed in body cast and used

ophone to

> help Yogis and yoginis to find places to stay while here for Puja.

Was glad

> to help, at least could do something. My mouth and arms worked. My

husband

> went to the Puja without me, and I was excited for him that year

and could

> not wait till he told me about it all. We were in it for about 4

years or 5

> years. Decided it would be hard to keep paying for Pujas, and could

not

> worship Shri Mataji with doubts of her being God.

>

> Blessings,

>

> Carol

>

> > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> >

> >

> > Re: What do fundamentalist bible-

quoting

> >Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

> >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:07:24 -0000

> >

> >

> >Dear Carol,

> >

> >i am actually asking you if Almighty God is One and the same i.e.,

> >Hindus view Him as Brahman and need not know about Christ to know

> >Him, or Muslims see Him as Allah and regard Christ as just another

> >prophet, and Sikhs see view Him as Waheguru without ever accepting

> >Christ as some who died for anyones sins (if ever that is the

case),

> >and the North American Indians who knew the Great Spirit thousands

of

> >years before Christ.

> >

> >You seem to use only Christian pastels to draw God, stenciling and

> >shading it with drab Bible greys. i am talking about the vibrant

> >colours that other cultures use to portray God, a Divine Being that

> >is within me too as Light. i want to know if you see the same

colors,

> >or is it just a black and white portrait for you. Can you clarify

> >this if that is the case, that God is the same for all humans

> >irrespective of their belief or knowledge of Jesus?

> >

> >BTW, you should know the Hindus knew Brahman (not Brahma) in far

> >greater depth and detail than any other culture. He has no image

and

> >no temple is dedicated to Him. Their description of Brahman is

beyond

> >anything known to humans, and i marvel at their unsurpassed

> >enlightenment. We are talking about His existence before even time

> >began ticking. i will be able to understand Him only through

Silence,

> >not intellectualization and comparision with any other messenger.

Is

> >He the same God you are referring to?

> >

> >warmest regards,

> >

> >

> >

> >jazgbir

> >

> >

> > , " danny weaver "

> ><cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Jagbir,

> > >

> > > I feel if they see God, as the Almighty and Jesus as The Chrsit,

> >who came to

> > > save us from sins, then they are using different names to come

to

> >same

> > > conclusion. So they may be the same, as long as they see God, as

> >God, ( a

> > > spirit who all worship in spirit and truth, nebver to be seen by

> >people on

> > > Earth) And Christ as 'annointed' and Begotten of the Father, who

> >they DID

> > > see, and so He could overcome all evil of the Earth showing us

it

> >can be

> > > done. Also as the second Adam, and mary as second Eve, and

> >completing what

> > > was not completed, in garden of eden. Then it is the same. Also

I

> >see, All

> > > of us brothers and sisters on earth. ABLE to be one, when we all

> >are willing

> > > to believe this correctly and not forsake this truth, and not

> >worship any

> > > false god or belief. We are all made in the IMAGE of God( not

the

> >likeness)

> > > the likeness comes with the fruits of the spirit, spoken of in

> >Galatians ch

> > > 5) and that comes with being filled with the Holy Spierit the

> >fruits will be

> > > manifested, and gifts given. The likeness is hardest to achieve,

> >but we all

> > > have the IMAGE no matter what culture you are from. People have

> >choices to

> > > follow the correct truth or not. We are to have no gods, other

then

> >THE GOD,

> > > that is important. Not saying there is not other gods, or

saints,

> >or angels

> > > ( who have been made or created by God) BUT Jesus is the ONLY

one

> >BEGOTTEN

> > > of God the Father. We are adopted, as you would say into the

family

> >by our

> > > beliefs and filling with Holy Spirit and baptisms and following

> >what He

> > > taught. The Orthodox DO believe that we are made in the IMAGE of

> >God,, ( all

> > > people, All cultures) but to achieve the likeness takes time.

> >People have a

> > > desire to sin, and need to fight that desire within them each

day.

> >They even

> > > cense the people with insense as to honor their Image ( but not

> >worship of

> > > course) and they venerate icons, seeing not the material of them

> >but the

> > > Saint as people on Earth feeling that Earth and the after life

is

> >one and

> > > the same, except we cannot normally SEE the spirits. Well

anyway,

> >kind of

> > > long, but that is what I am understanding. ( And see Heaven and

> >Earth

> > > together as one, so we have negative sprits too, that we need to

> >struggle

> > > with each day) We need to PRAY to God, and Jesus and can ask for

> >assistance

> > > from each other, of course, but also from the Saints and

angels, on

> >daily

> > > basis. We ARE protected from evil as we ASK, for help on the

Earth.

> >Yes God

> > > lives inside EACH of us, making the IMAGE of God there to be

> >matured, and we

> > > choose to grow in likeness, by faith, and using fruits and gifts

> >given as

> > > after being filed with Holy Spirit.

> > >

> > > Carol

> > >

> > >

> > > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Re: What do fundamentalist

bible-

> >quoting

> > > >Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

> > > >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:54:00 -0000

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >Dear Carol,

> > > >

> > > >That is indeed interesting and your Sahaj background have made

you

> > > >appreciate how other cultures look at the Divine.

> > > >

> > > >Since God Almighty exists with us as The Light, is this a

> >Christian,

> > > >Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or Sikh God? Is the Divine within

> > > >humanity One and the Same?

> > > >

> > > >i would really appreciate if you answer these questions because

> > > >pastors teach quite the opposite. Christianity, just like

Islam, is

> > > >against divinity within humans. So how come your views conflict

> >with

> > > >the church Carol?

> > > >

> > > >warmest regards,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >jagbir

> > > >

> > > > , " danny weaver "

> > > ><cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > What I mean by pagan beliefs, are those who do not have

faith,

> >only

> > > >in

> > > > > satanism, and nothing at all. People who have not a belief

in

> >God,

> > > >or even

> > > > > trying to find God. The american Indians, had several but

ONE A

> > > >BOVE all

> > > > > called " GREAT SPIRIT " so therefore they still believed in

God,

> >but

> > > >not in

> > > > > the name we use, which can happen. Did not say anything

about

> > > >Himduism or

> > > > > the like they have Brahma, Vishnu and Shivah, the Creator,

> > > >preserver and

> > > > > destroyer who also boils down to the Three in one. Buddha

was

> > > >trying to find

> > > > > enlightenment, but all the time it was within. ( Looking

outside

> > > >self is not

> > > > > the answer for enlightenment) We all have God within and

most

> > > >beliefs will

> > > > > recognize that i as true.

> > > > >

> > > > > So, my idea of pagans are, witchcraft, satanism, atheists

and

> > > >people who

> > > > > worship the negative and evil things of the world, or

nothing at

> > > >all. I

> > > > > know some witches would call themselves WICCAs and say they

have

> > > >all

> > > > > knowlege and are of the " white " witch, well whatever....So

hope

> > > >this helps

> > > > > to answer the ques of how I see a pagan belief. A pagan will

> > > >worship

> > > > > anything, a stone, a leaf, anything even their finger,

whatever

> > > >seems right

> > > > > at the time, but not God. We have people who worship 'money'

> >that

> > > >is a pagan

> > > > > worship not a Godly thing as it is not OF God. Using it

wrongly

> >and

> > > > > worshipping anything BUT God. ( The Almighty One) Hope this

> >helps

> > > >to calify

> > > > > my thoughts.

> > > > >

> > > > > Carol

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What do fundamentalist

bible-

> > > >quoting

> > > > > >Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

> > > > > >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:27:11 -0000

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >Dear Carol,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >i really get uncomfortable when Christians start saying:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " Hopefully in this FREE country founded on right to allow

> >faiths,

> > > > > >that we do not loose our Christianity, and become a melting

> >pot of

> > > > > >pagan beliefs, which to some extent has already happened. "

> > > > > >

> > > > > >Carol, since i know what they are actually meaning

(because i

> >have

> > > > > >talked to them). Can you clarify " pagan beliefs " ? Are you

> >refering

> > > >to

> > > > > >Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, and Islam by any

chance?

> >Do

> > > >you

> > > > > >love Shri Krishna, Buddha, Guru Nanak, Mahavira and Prophet

> > > >Muhammad?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >After reading you last few posts i want to know more about

your

> > > > > >dislike of so-called pagan beliefs which is a standard

> >trademark of

> > > > > >all who are brainwashed by fanatical pastors. i have a

friend

> >who

> > > > > >speaks just like you. i have stopped talking to her about

> >anything

> > > > > >spiritually because it is overwhemingly " my Jesus vs your

pagan

> > > > > >beliefs " lectures. So i know what fundamentaists Christians

> >mean

> > > > > >by " pagan " . Just want to know what you mean by those terms.

> >Thanks.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >jagbir

> > > > > >

> > > > > >BTW, do you regard the deeply spiritual Indians who lived

in

> > > >America

> > > > > >for thousands of years pagan too?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Chuck, and Jagbir, Violet and all,

 

Yes, believe you are right. Somethings may be too hard for us to understand.

Reminds me of Bible verse, in 1 Corinthians Ch 13, " NOw we see through a

glass dimly but then will see face to face " Not all can be known now,

perhaps. We try too hard to know EVERYTHING, if we did, we would BE

God....Human nature to try and understand.

 

Blessings,

 

Carol

 

 

> " Chuck " <chuckhennigan

>

>

> Re: What do fundamentalist bible-quoting

>Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

>Wed, 04 Jan 2006 00:05:10 -0000

>

>Dear Carol and Jagbir,

>

>I also believe that Jesus will come back and everyone will be judged.

>How this will work, I am not sure. I know Shri Mataji talked about

>this also. There are questions I think Jagbir and Carol are asking

>which are very good questions. What about the people who never heard

>of or knew Jesus, but believe in God and lived a pure life? How will

>they be judged? What about people who were born before Jesus came to

>this earth? Are all these people reincarnated and then told about

>Jesus? Did Jesus actually say he died on the cross to save us? If

>people just believe in Jesus, yet do as they wish, live a carnal life

>and not a pure life, how will they be judged? I do not know the

>answers to these questions.

>

>I think the Holy Spirit is in each and every one of us and will guide

>us to a pure life and show each of us the Divine Love of God. I think

>the Holy Spirit is the key. I think Carol that we must seek these

>answers from within with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I also

>think it will help if we share scriptures from the Bible, share

>things from which Shri Mataji says also, and learn from Jesus himself

>and what he said. I do not know all the answers but hopefully we can

>share with each other and learn truths from each other regarding

>these questions.

>

>Love,

>

>Chuck

>

> , " danny weaver "

><cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

> >

> > Yes, I think they are worshipping the same God with different

>names......

> > but Jesus is begotten and did come to Earth, so that part may be

>left out.

> > Jews believe in the One TRUE God too, but do not believe that the

>messiah

> > came to save us, and are waiting yet. We are waiting for the second

>coming,

> > and believe Sahaja Yogas see Shri mataji as the second coming

>bringing the

> > Holy Spirit, but ONE comes yet to judge, as Jesus did not Judge and

>neither

> > is Shri Mataji here to judgem, and she had a duty to fulfill,

>perhaps with

> > Holy Spirit, maybe, but I am now waiting for Jesus to come,

>AGAIN.... But

> > YES same God, but SOME religions do not believe that Christ is part

>of God

> > and came to save them so thus are not CHRISTIAN as CHRISTIANS

>believed in

> > Chirst, that is the ROOT of the word. So they are NOT PAGANS, if

>they

> > believe in GOD, and it is the SAME GOD, but they forgot a part and

>left it

> > out, the part that makes a Christian is the belief in Christ. The

>Prophets

> > came as they all had a DUTY to perform, ( and hopefully could do it

>as we

> > have choices..) Mary could have said " no " to Gabrielle, and the

>Prophets

> > can refuse to do what they came to do as Adam and Eve slipped and

>got side

> > tracked with the serpent... But they came with a purpose, but they

>were NOT

> > God.

> >

> > Hope this helps... Am trying to explain my thoughts best I can, and

>beliefs

> > I have had since a child. I grew up Protestant, and also knew of

>Roman

> > Catholics and Now Orthodox, have checked Quakers, have checked out

> > charismatic, have checked outJehovah Witness, Have checked out many

> > religions seeking over the years, and Metaphysics, etc etc etc.

>Even

> > preached two years in a Reformed church in which no one wanted to

>minister

> > to and it grew by leaps and bounds only to be told that I was not

>ORDAINED

> > by the Reformed Church ministry so had to stop ( they , the Synod

>allowed

> > it, but then found a retired minister so they did not need me, but

>that was

> > ok, it was a experience and meant for that time and no longer)

>Mentioned to

> > you before I know.... but hope it helps to exlpain better my

>thoughts....

> > YES SAME GOD, being worshipped, by different names, BUT some leave

>out

> > CHRIST and do nt believe He came to die and rise for us to live

>forever,

> > and that makes one a CHRISTIAN. I needed to seek and find. Now with

>Sahaja

> > Yoga, yes, I loved it, and being in it and my husband, also and met

>many

> > great friends, and some stayed in our home for pujas, as sisters.

>But I did

> > not see Shri Mataji as GOD.... That is what I mean.... That is my

>thing,

> > maybe a prophet or divine being sent but NOT as God, I cannot get

>to SE

> > that, nor my husband. Also, did get cool breeze and vibrations, BUT

>that

> > comes from within as it is the MOTHER within the Kundalini maybe

>not Shri

> > Mataji? I am afraid to worship her as she may not be God.... That

>is what my

> > thoughts are.

> > Must get it righteverlasting life is counted on it, and lives of

>others if I

> > take them down wrong turn in road.. I see flaws in all religions of

>course,

> > and so I guess it is the way it is. BUT just do not see Shri Mataji

>as God

> > so how can I WORSHIP her like others? I am not saying that I

>counterdict all

> > you say, but that is the problem, and could not afford Pujas. I am

>on

> > disability for back surgery I had and miracle is not happening. (

>Well maybe

> > that I am not paralized or dead forom Staph is the miracle.) Was

>doing

> > Sahaja Yoga at the time, from lying in bed in body cast and used

>ophone to

> > help Yogis and yoginis to find places to stay while here for Puja.

>Was glad

> > to help, at least could do something. My mouth and arms worked. My

>husband

> > went to the Puja without me, and I was excited for him that year

>and could

> > not wait till he told me about it all. We were in it for about 4

>years or 5

> > years. Decided it would be hard to keep paying for Pujas, and could

>not

> > worship Shri Mataji with doubts of her being God.

> >

> > Blessings,

> >

> > Carol

> >

> > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> > >

> > >

> > > Re: What do fundamentalist bible-

>quoting

> > >Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

> > >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:07:24 -0000

> > >

> > >

> > >Dear Carol,

> > >

> > >i am actually asking you if Almighty God is One and the same i.e.,

> > >Hindus view Him as Brahman and need not know about Christ to know

> > >Him, or Muslims see Him as Allah and regard Christ as just another

> > >prophet, and Sikhs see view Him as Waheguru without ever accepting

> > >Christ as some who died for anyones sins (if ever that is the

>case),

> > >and the North American Indians who knew the Great Spirit thousands

>of

> > >years before Christ.

> > >

> > >You seem to use only Christian pastels to draw God, stenciling and

> > >shading it with drab Bible greys. i am talking about the vibrant

> > >colours that other cultures use to portray God, a Divine Being that

> > >is within me too as Light. i want to know if you see the same

>colors,

> > >or is it just a black and white portrait for you. Can you clarify

> > >this if that is the case, that God is the same for all humans

> > >irrespective of their belief or knowledge of Jesus?

> > >

> > >BTW, you should know the Hindus knew Brahman (not Brahma) in far

> > >greater depth and detail than any other culture. He has no image

>and

> > >no temple is dedicated to Him. Their description of Brahman is

>beyond

> > >anything known to humans, and i marvel at their unsurpassed

> > >enlightenment. We are talking about His existence before even time

> > >began ticking. i will be able to understand Him only through

>Silence,

> > >not intellectualization and comparision with any other messenger.

>Is

> > >He the same God you are referring to?

> > >

> > >warmest regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >jazgbir

> > >

> > >

> > > , " danny weaver "

> > ><cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Jagbir,

> > > >

> > > > I feel if they see God, as the Almighty and Jesus as The Chrsit,

> > >who came to

> > > > save us from sins, then they are using different names to come

>to

> > >same

> > > > conclusion. So they may be the same, as long as they see God, as

> > >God, ( a

> > > > spirit who all worship in spirit and truth, nebver to be seen by

> > >people on

> > > > Earth) And Christ as 'annointed' and Begotten of the Father, who

> > >they DID

> > > > see, and so He could overcome all evil of the Earth showing us

>it

> > >can be

> > > > done. Also as the second Adam, and mary as second Eve, and

> > >completing what

> > > > was not completed, in garden of eden. Then it is the same. Also

>I

> > >see, All

> > > > of us brothers and sisters on earth. ABLE to be one, when we all

> > >are willing

> > > > to believe this correctly and not forsake this truth, and not

> > >worship any

> > > > false god or belief. We are all made in the IMAGE of God( not

>the

> > >likeness)

> > > > the likeness comes with the fruits of the spirit, spoken of in

> > >Galatians ch

> > > > 5) and that comes with being filled with the Holy Spierit the

> > >fruits will be

> > > > manifested, and gifts given. The likeness is hardest to achieve,

> > >but we all

> > > > have the IMAGE no matter what culture you are from. People have

> > >choices to

> > > > follow the correct truth or not. We are to have no gods, other

>then

> > >THE GOD,

> > > > that is important. Not saying there is not other gods, or

>saints,

> > >or angels

> > > > ( who have been made or created by God) BUT Jesus is the ONLY

>one

> > >BEGOTTEN

> > > > of God the Father. We are adopted, as you would say into the

>family

> > >by our

> > > > beliefs and filling with Holy Spirit and baptisms and following

> > >what He

> > > > taught. The Orthodox DO believe that we are made in the IMAGE of

> > >God,, ( all

> > > > people, All cultures) but to achieve the likeness takes time.

> > >People have a

> > > > desire to sin, and need to fight that desire within them each

>day.

> > >They even

> > > > cense the people with insense as to honor their Image ( but not

> > >worship of

> > > > course) and they venerate icons, seeing not the material of them

> > >but the

> > > > Saint as people on Earth feeling that Earth and the after life

>is

> > >one and

> > > > the same, except we cannot normally SEE the spirits. Well

>anyway,

> > >kind of

> > > > long, but that is what I am understanding. ( And see Heaven and

> > >Earth

> > > > together as one, so we have negative sprits too, that we need to

> > >struggle

> > > > with each day) We need to PRAY to God, and Jesus and can ask for

> > >assistance

> > > > from each other, of course, but also from the Saints and

>angels, on

> > >daily

> > > > basis. We ARE protected from evil as we ASK, for help on the

>Earth.

> > >Yes God

> > > > lives inside EACH of us, making the IMAGE of God there to be

> > >matured, and we

> > > > choose to grow in likeness, by faith, and using fruits and gifts

> > >given as

> > > > after being filed with Holy Spirit.

> > > >

> > > > Carol

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Re: What do fundamentalist

>bible-

> > >quoting

> > > > >Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

> > > > >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:54:00 -0000

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >Dear Carol,

> > > > >

> > > > >That is indeed interesting and your Sahaj background have made

>you

> > > > >appreciate how other cultures look at the Divine.

> > > > >

> > > > >Since God Almighty exists with us as The Light, is this a

> > >Christian,

> > > > >Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or Sikh God? Is the Divine within

> > > > >humanity One and the Same?

> > > > >

> > > > >i would really appreciate if you answer these questions because

> > > > >pastors teach quite the opposite. Christianity, just like

>Islam, is

> > > > >against divinity within humans. So how come your views conflict

> > >with

> > > > >the church Carol?

> > > > >

> > > > >warmest regards,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >jagbir

> > > > >

> > > > > , " danny weaver "

> > > > ><cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What I mean by pagan beliefs, are those who do not have

>faith,

> > >only

> > > > >in

> > > > > > satanism, and nothing at all. People who have not a belief

>in

> > >God,

> > > > >or even

> > > > > > trying to find God. The american Indians, had several but

>ONE A

> > > > >BOVE all

> > > > > > called " GREAT SPIRIT " so therefore they still believed in

>God,

> > >but

> > > > >not in

> > > > > > the name we use, which can happen. Did not say anything

>about

> > > > >Himduism or

> > > > > > the like they have Brahma, Vishnu and Shivah, the Creator,

> > > > >preserver and

> > > > > > destroyer who also boils down to the Three in one. Buddha

>was

> > > > >trying to find

> > > > > > enlightenment, but all the time it was within. ( Looking

>outside

> > > > >self is not

> > > > > > the answer for enlightenment) We all have God within and

>most

> > > > >beliefs will

> > > > > > recognize that i as true.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So, my idea of pagans are, witchcraft, satanism, atheists

>and

> > > > >people who

> > > > > > worship the negative and evil things of the world, or

>nothing at

> > > > >all. I

> > > > > > know some witches would call themselves WICCAs and say they

>have

> > > > >all

> > > > > > knowlege and are of the " white " witch, well whatever....So

>hope

> > > > >this helps

> > > > > > to answer the ques of how I see a pagan belief. A pagan will

> > > > >worship

> > > > > > anything, a stone, a leaf, anything even their finger,

>whatever

> > > > >seems right

> > > > > > at the time, but not God. We have people who worship 'money'

> > >that

> > > > >is a pagan

> > > > > > worship not a Godly thing as it is not OF God. Using it

>wrongly

> > >and

> > > > > > worshipping anything BUT God. ( The Almighty One) Hope this

> > >helps

> > > > >to calify

> > > > > > my thoughts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Carol

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What do fundamentalist

>bible-

> > > > >quoting

> > > > > > >Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

> > > > > > >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:27:11 -0000

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Dear Carol,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >i really get uncomfortable when Christians start saying:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " Hopefully in this FREE country founded on right to allow

> > >faiths,

> > > > > > >that we do not loose our Christianity, and become a melting

> > >pot of

> > > > > > >pagan beliefs, which to some extent has already happened. "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Carol, since i know what they are actually meaning

>(because i

> > >have

> > > > > > >talked to them). Can you clarify " pagan beliefs " ? Are you

> > >refering

> > > > >to

> > > > > > >Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, and Islam by any

>chance?

> > >Do

> > > > >you

> > > > > > >love Shri Krishna, Buddha, Guru Nanak, Mahavira and Prophet

> > > > >Muhammad?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >After reading you last few posts i want to know more about

>your

> > > > > > >dislike of so-called pagan beliefs which is a standard

> > >trademark of

> > > > > > >all who are brainwashed by fanatical pastors. i have a

>friend

> > >who

> > > > > > >speaks just like you. i have stopped talking to her about

> > >anything

> > > > > > >spiritually because it is overwhemingly " my Jesus vs your

>pagan

> > > > > > >beliefs " lectures. So i know what fundamentaists Christians

> > >mean

> > > > > > >by " pagan " . Just want to know what you mean by those terms.

> > >Thanks.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >jagbir

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >BTW, do you regard the deeply spiritual Indians who lived

>in

> > > > >America

> > > > > > >for thousands of years pagan too?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Was just reading something I felt I needed to share, from the Holy Trinity

School ( on the internet) under the Dogmatic theology portion of the

lessons.

 

It was talking of the TWO comings before the actual SECOND judgement coming

of Jesus. The first being for the rightous, and will be awakening in Christ,

and the next will be the judgement the one for the rightous will last

1000yrs, although that is symbolic of course. It told how they believe that

the world will not be annihilated, but transformed, in the end, after the

last judgement. Perhaps just perhaps, the first one and the the one for the

rightous and the 1000 yr reign could be Sahaja Yoga, well just a thought, on

the subject. What do you say

 

Carol

 

 

> " Chuck " <chuckhennigan

>

>

> Re: What do fundamentalist bible-quoting

>Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

>Wed, 04 Jan 2006 00:05:10 -0000

>

>Dear Carol and Jagbir,

>

>I also believe that Jesus will come back and everyone will be judged.

>How this will work, I am not sure. I know Shri Mataji talked about

>this also. There are questions I think Jagbir and Carol are asking

>which are very good questions. What about the people who never heard

>of or knew Jesus, but believe in God and lived a pure life? How will

>they be judged? What about people who were born before Jesus came to

>this earth? Are all these people reincarnated and then told about

>Jesus? Did Jesus actually say he died on the cross to save us? If

>people just believe in Jesus, yet do as they wish, live a carnal life

>and not a pure life, how will they be judged? I do not know the

>answers to these questions.

>

>I think the Holy Spirit is in each and every one of us and will guide

>us to a pure life and show each of us the Divine Love of God. I think

>the Holy Spirit is the key. I think Carol that we must seek these

>answers from within with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I also

>think it will help if we share scriptures from the Bible, share

>things from which Shri Mataji says also, and learn from Jesus himself

>and what he said. I do not know all the answers but hopefully we can

>share with each other and learn truths from each other regarding

>these questions.

>

>Love,

>

>Chuck

>

> , " danny weaver "

><cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

> >

> > Yes, I think they are worshipping the same God with different

>names......

> > but Jesus is begotten and did come to Earth, so that part may be

>left out.

> > Jews believe in the One TRUE God too, but do not believe that the

>messiah

> > came to save us, and are waiting yet. We are waiting for the second

>coming,

> > and believe Sahaja Yogas see Shri mataji as the second coming

>bringing the

> > Holy Spirit, but ONE comes yet to judge, as Jesus did not Judge and

>neither

> > is Shri Mataji here to judgem, and she had a duty to fulfill,

>perhaps with

> > Holy Spirit, maybe, but I am now waiting for Jesus to come,

>AGAIN.... But

> > YES same God, but SOME religions do not believe that Christ is part

>of God

> > and came to save them so thus are not CHRISTIAN as CHRISTIANS

>believed in

> > Chirst, that is the ROOT of the word. So they are NOT PAGANS, if

>they

> > believe in GOD, and it is the SAME GOD, but they forgot a part and

>left it

> > out, the part that makes a Christian is the belief in Christ. The

>Prophets

> > came as they all had a DUTY to perform, ( and hopefully could do it

>as we

> > have choices..) Mary could have said " no " to Gabrielle, and the

>Prophets

> > can refuse to do what they came to do as Adam and Eve slipped and

>got side

> > tracked with the serpent... But they came with a purpose, but they

>were NOT

> > God.

> >

> > Hope this helps... Am trying to explain my thoughts best I can, and

>beliefs

> > I have had since a child. I grew up Protestant, and also knew of

>Roman

> > Catholics and Now Orthodox, have checked Quakers, have checked out

> > charismatic, have checked outJehovah Witness, Have checked out many

> > religions seeking over the years, and Metaphysics, etc etc etc.

>Even

> > preached two years in a Reformed church in which no one wanted to

>minister

> > to and it grew by leaps and bounds only to be told that I was not

>ORDAINED

> > by the Reformed Church ministry so had to stop ( they , the Synod

>allowed

> > it, but then found a retired minister so they did not need me, but

>that was

> > ok, it was a experience and meant for that time and no longer)

>Mentioned to

> > you before I know.... but hope it helps to exlpain better my

>thoughts....

> > YES SAME GOD, being worshipped, by different names, BUT some leave

>out

> > CHRIST and do nt believe He came to die and rise for us to live

>forever,

> > and that makes one a CHRISTIAN. I needed to seek and find. Now with

>Sahaja

> > Yoga, yes, I loved it, and being in it and my husband, also and met

>many

> > great friends, and some stayed in our home for pujas, as sisters.

>But I did

> > not see Shri Mataji as GOD.... That is what I mean.... That is my

>thing,

> > maybe a prophet or divine being sent but NOT as God, I cannot get

>to SE

> > that, nor my husband. Also, did get cool breeze and vibrations, BUT

>that

> > comes from within as it is the MOTHER within the Kundalini maybe

>not Shri

> > Mataji? I am afraid to worship her as she may not be God.... That

>is what my

> > thoughts are.

> > Must get it righteverlasting life is counted on it, and lives of

>others if I

> > take them down wrong turn in road.. I see flaws in all religions of

>course,

> > and so I guess it is the way it is. BUT just do not see Shri Mataji

>as God

> > so how can I WORSHIP her like others? I am not saying that I

>counterdict all

> > you say, but that is the problem, and could not afford Pujas. I am

>on

> > disability for back surgery I had and miracle is not happening. (

>Well maybe

> > that I am not paralized or dead forom Staph is the miracle.) Was

>doing

> > Sahaja Yoga at the time, from lying in bed in body cast and used

>ophone to

> > help Yogis and yoginis to find places to stay while here for Puja.

>Was glad

> > to help, at least could do something. My mouth and arms worked. My

>husband

> > went to the Puja without me, and I was excited for him that year

>and could

> > not wait till he told me about it all. We were in it for about 4

>years or 5

> > years. Decided it would be hard to keep paying for Pujas, and could

>not

> > worship Shri Mataji with doubts of her being God.

> >

> > Blessings,

> >

> > Carol

> >

> > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> > >

> > >

> > > Re: What do fundamentalist bible-

>quoting

> > >Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

> > >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 20:07:24 -0000

> > >

> > >

> > >Dear Carol,

> > >

> > >i am actually asking you if Almighty God is One and the same i.e.,

> > >Hindus view Him as Brahman and need not know about Christ to know

> > >Him, or Muslims see Him as Allah and regard Christ as just another

> > >prophet, and Sikhs see view Him as Waheguru without ever accepting

> > >Christ as some who died for anyones sins (if ever that is the

>case),

> > >and the North American Indians who knew the Great Spirit thousands

>of

> > >years before Christ.

> > >

> > >You seem to use only Christian pastels to draw God, stenciling and

> > >shading it with drab Bible greys. i am talking about the vibrant

> > >colours that other cultures use to portray God, a Divine Being that

> > >is within me too as Light. i want to know if you see the same

>colors,

> > >or is it just a black and white portrait for you. Can you clarify

> > >this if that is the case, that God is the same for all humans

> > >irrespective of their belief or knowledge of Jesus?

> > >

> > >BTW, you should know the Hindus knew Brahman (not Brahma) in far

> > >greater depth and detail than any other culture. He has no image

>and

> > >no temple is dedicated to Him. Their description of Brahman is

>beyond

> > >anything known to humans, and i marvel at their unsurpassed

> > >enlightenment. We are talking about His existence before even time

> > >began ticking. i will be able to understand Him only through

>Silence,

> > >not intellectualization and comparision with any other messenger.

>Is

> > >He the same God you are referring to?

> > >

> > >warmest regards,

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >jazgbir

> > >

> > >

> > > , " danny weaver "

> > ><cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Jagbir,

> > > >

> > > > I feel if they see God, as the Almighty and Jesus as The Chrsit,

> > >who came to

> > > > save us from sins, then they are using different names to come

>to

> > >same

> > > > conclusion. So they may be the same, as long as they see God, as

> > >God, ( a

> > > > spirit who all worship in spirit and truth, nebver to be seen by

> > >people on

> > > > Earth) And Christ as 'annointed' and Begotten of the Father, who

> > >they DID

> > > > see, and so He could overcome all evil of the Earth showing us

>it

> > >can be

> > > > done. Also as the second Adam, and mary as second Eve, and

> > >completing what

> > > > was not completed, in garden of eden. Then it is the same. Also

>I

> > >see, All

> > > > of us brothers and sisters on earth. ABLE to be one, when we all

> > >are willing

> > > > to believe this correctly and not forsake this truth, and not

> > >worship any

> > > > false god or belief. We are all made in the IMAGE of God( not

>the

> > >likeness)

> > > > the likeness comes with the fruits of the spirit, spoken of in

> > >Galatians ch

> > > > 5) and that comes with being filled with the Holy Spierit the

> > >fruits will be

> > > > manifested, and gifts given. The likeness is hardest to achieve,

> > >but we all

> > > > have the IMAGE no matter what culture you are from. People have

> > >choices to

> > > > follow the correct truth or not. We are to have no gods, other

>then

> > >THE GOD,

> > > > that is important. Not saying there is not other gods, or

>saints,

> > >or angels

> > > > ( who have been made or created by God) BUT Jesus is the ONLY

>one

> > >BEGOTTEN

> > > > of God the Father. We are adopted, as you would say into the

>family

> > >by our

> > > > beliefs and filling with Holy Spirit and baptisms and following

> > >what He

> > > > taught. The Orthodox DO believe that we are made in the IMAGE of

> > >God,, ( all

> > > > people, All cultures) but to achieve the likeness takes time.

> > >People have a

> > > > desire to sin, and need to fight that desire within them each

>day.

> > >They even

> > > > cense the people with insense as to honor their Image ( but not

> > >worship of

> > > > course) and they venerate icons, seeing not the material of them

> > >but the

> > > > Saint as people on Earth feeling that Earth and the after life

>is

> > >one and

> > > > the same, except we cannot normally SEE the spirits. Well

>anyway,

> > >kind of

> > > > long, but that is what I am understanding. ( And see Heaven and

> > >Earth

> > > > together as one, so we have negative sprits too, that we need to

> > >struggle

> > > > with each day) We need to PRAY to God, and Jesus and can ask for

> > >assistance

> > > > from each other, of course, but also from the Saints and

>angels, on

> > >daily

> > > > basis. We ARE protected from evil as we ASK, for help on the

>Earth.

> > >Yes God

> > > > lives inside EACH of us, making the IMAGE of God there to be

> > >matured, and we

> > > > choose to grow in likeness, by faith, and using fruits and gifts

> > >given as

> > > > after being filed with Holy Spirit.

> > > >

> > > > Carol

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Re: What do fundamentalist

>bible-

> > >quoting

> > > > >Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

> > > > >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:54:00 -0000

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >Dear Carol,

> > > > >

> > > > >That is indeed interesting and your Sahaj background have made

>you

> > > > >appreciate how other cultures look at the Divine.

> > > > >

> > > > >Since God Almighty exists with us as The Light, is this a

> > >Christian,

> > > > >Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or Sikh God? Is the Divine within

> > > > >humanity One and the Same?

> > > > >

> > > > >i would really appreciate if you answer these questions because

> > > > >pastors teach quite the opposite. Christianity, just like

>Islam, is

> > > > >against divinity within humans. So how come your views conflict

> > >with

> > > > >the church Carol?

> > > > >

> > > > >warmest regards,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >jagbir

> > > > >

> > > > > , " danny weaver "

> > > > ><cdweaver32@h...> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What I mean by pagan beliefs, are those who do not have

>faith,

> > >only

> > > > >in

> > > > > > satanism, and nothing at all. People who have not a belief

>in

> > >God,

> > > > >or even

> > > > > > trying to find God. The american Indians, had several but

>ONE A

> > > > >BOVE all

> > > > > > called " GREAT SPIRIT " so therefore they still believed in

>God,

> > >but

> > > > >not in

> > > > > > the name we use, which can happen. Did not say anything

>about

> > > > >Himduism or

> > > > > > the like they have Brahma, Vishnu and Shivah, the Creator,

> > > > >preserver and

> > > > > > destroyer who also boils down to the Three in one. Buddha

>was

> > > > >trying to find

> > > > > > enlightenment, but all the time it was within. ( Looking

>outside

> > > > >self is not

> > > > > > the answer for enlightenment) We all have God within and

>most

> > > > >beliefs will

> > > > > > recognize that i as true.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So, my idea of pagans are, witchcraft, satanism, atheists

>and

> > > > >people who

> > > > > > worship the negative and evil things of the world, or

>nothing at

> > > > >all. I

> > > > > > know some witches would call themselves WICCAs and say they

>have

> > > > >all

> > > > > > knowlege and are of the " white " witch, well whatever....So

>hope

> > > > >this helps

> > > > > > to answer the ques of how I see a pagan belief. A pagan will

> > > > >worship

> > > > > > anything, a stone, a leaf, anything even their finger,

>whatever

> > > > >seems right

> > > > > > at the time, but not God. We have people who worship 'money'

> > >that

> > > > >is a pagan

> > > > > > worship not a Godly thing as it is not OF God. Using it

>wrongly

> > >and

> > > > > > worshipping anything BUT God. ( The Almighty One) Hope this

> > >helps

> > > > >to calify

> > > > > > my thoughts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Carol

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org>

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > What do fundamentalist

>bible-

> > > > >quoting

> > > > > > >Christians mean by " pagan beliefs " ?

> > > > > > >Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:27:11 -0000

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Dear Carol,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >i really get uncomfortable when Christians start saying:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > " Hopefully in this FREE country founded on right to allow

> > >faiths,

> > > > > > >that we do not loose our Christianity, and become a melting

> > >pot of

> > > > > > >pagan beliefs, which to some extent has already happened. "

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >Carol, since i know what they are actually meaning

>(because i

> > >have

> > > > > > >talked to them). Can you clarify " pagan beliefs " ? Are you

> > >refering

> > > > >to

> > > > > > >Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, and Islam by any

>chance?

> > >Do

> > > > >you

> > > > > > >love Shri Krishna, Buddha, Guru Nanak, Mahavira and Prophet

> > > > >Muhammad?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >After reading you last few posts i want to know more about

>your

> > > > > > >dislike of so-called pagan beliefs which is a standard

> > >trademark of

> > > > > > >all who are brainwashed by fanatical pastors. i have a

>friend

> > >who

> > > > > > >speaks just like you. i have stopped talking to her about

> > >anything

> > > > > > >spiritually because it is overwhemingly " my Jesus vs your

>pagan

> > > > > > >beliefs " lectures. So i know what fundamentaists Christians

> > >mean

> > > > > > >by " pagan " . Just want to know what you mean by those terms.

> > >Thanks.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >jagbir

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >BTW, do you regard the deeply spiritual Indians who lived

>in

> > > > >America

> > > > > > >for thousands of years pagan too?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

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