100% sure Shri Mataji never insisted footsoaking be a daily ritual

[Guest guest]

, anil kanhaua

<hello_betu> wrote:

>

> Dear Jagbir and All,

>

> Jai shri Mataji !!!

>

> Its true that we must be away from rituals and conditionings and

> must leave all to mother kundalini that is inside us for all sort

> of required nourishment. Also, unless one has some specific

> problem of critical nature, then only he / she may be advised to

> follow certain rituals for some time and stop that as soon as he /

> she starts feeling better so as to avoid to be conditioned with

> that ritual. All these techniques, viz, lemmon-chillies, matka

> treatment, ice pack......etc are to be avoied on regular basis as

> these all are nothing but leading us towards conditionings again.

> But, despite this fact, I have heard mother saying in some of her

> speeches, very clearly, that sahaja yogies must be away from

> various rituals and conditionings but they must follow TWO

> conditioning for their LIFETIME, daily meditation and daily foot

> soaking. Can anybody explain this why mother told this. Is it not

> good to do foot soaking on daily basis. What is harm in it and

> what are advantages. I think that valuable comments of the members

> will definitely help.

>

> Warm regards !

> Anil

>

 

 

Dear Anil and all.

 

i am absolutely sure that Shri Mataji never wanted footsoaking to be

a daily ritual. It makes no sense to do mechanical footsoaking, just

for the sake of footsoaking, when there is nothing wrong with us. i

know Hindus love rituals and even in Sahaja Yoga want to indulge in

them and just can't get rid of this conditioning. The ceaseless

chatter of catches and cures thus satisfies the need for external

rituals. SYs have cures for every sniff, cough or hiccup and

footsoaking is the mother of all cures. They just cannot/do not

have faith that the Mother Kundalini, which gave them the priceless

Self-realization, can heal such petty problems. For them only

footsoaking is the cure all. This is an insult to the greatest power

residing within themselves. i just cannot understand why SYs have

more confidence in salted water than the Shakti within.

 

i am 100% sure Shri Mataji never insisted footsoaking be a daily

ritual. Perhaps She meant that if you have problems then footsoak

daily but for thier LIFETIME!!!??? It just make no sense. This is

the first time i am hearing that Shri Mataji said such a thing. i

have heard so many speeches but never " for their LIFETIME " . On the

contrary, i have heard Her lamenting on SYs footsoaking for years,

asking what the point of doing Sahaja Yoga if you still need to

footsoak. i too heard this speech clearly and was really relieved.

So the " for their LIFETIME " is just not true.

 

Just like the innovative cures for 1001 catches, footsoaking has now

acquired status symbol. Of course that wonder cure is recommended ...

by Grade One masters teaching kindergarten kids. Is it not good to

do foot soaking on daily basis? NO! What is harm in it and what are

advantages? There is no harm if done daily. Neither is there any

benefit UNLESS you are having problems. If there is no benefit why

perform an empty mechanical ritual? And if there is nothing wrong

then isn't daily footsoaking just an unnecessary and conditioning

ritual. (i know how long it took my spouse to rid herself of that

ritualistic conditioning imposed by ignorant SYs, whom we thought

were enlightened.)

 

i have always said - Do not force your external rituals and

conditioning onto others. Let others learn how to use their own

healing powers. Allow them to grow spiritually from within. Stop

engaging them in external rituals. Why keep them at your level?

 

If footsoaking is good for you just continue but do not spread

avidya to others. Just read one of the last puja speeches by Shri

Mataji in November 2002 and tell me why She never said a single word

on footsoaking. Why She kept on insisting on meditation, meditation

and meditation? How many posts will it take for footsoaking

conditioned SYs to stop insisting and infecting others with this

ritualistic conditioning?

 

Last, but not the least, what has footsoaking got to do with

becoming thoughtless, catchless, learning " I am Brahman " and moksa?

Why are so many SYs yet so far from true enlightenment and still

trying to heal their 'catches' despite hundreds of footsoaks? Why do

so many of them require daily cleansing rituals despite years of

footsoaking? Will SYs ever get well? Will they ever be catch-free?

Why then advertise Sahaja Yoga brings health benefits when the

opposite is true, since daily footsoaking is required to heal? What

are all these mysterious infectious diseases that plague so many

collectives? Are SYs infected and especially favored by these pesky

invisible bhoots? Is this what SYs are offering to seekers (and

wondering why so many flee instantly)?

 

Am i safe because i quit the ceaseless chatter of catches and cures

years ago? Or did my Mother Kundalini made me immune from all that

ails the kindergarten kids and their Grade One teachers? Am i glad

to quickly learn how to be my own master?

 

jagbir

 

 

 

Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

Diwali Puja, November 2, 2002, Los Angeles, USA

 

Have faith that the Divine will give you the light, will guide your

path, will take you to the right place, to do the right thing....

 

We are collective, we are nice to each other, we don't tell lies, we

don't try to destroy anyone. That means we are much above human

failings and this is only because of the light. You can see where

you are faltering. It's just you see for yourself. For that, I think

meditation is the most important thing.

 

Every day you should do meditation. Those who do not do meditation

are capable of falling down because meditation is like putting oil

into the lamp. Those who do not meditate, think they can do without

it, are sadly mistaken. They have to meditate morning and evening.

The problem is everything comes so handily, so simple that they

don't understand that meditation is very important.

 

Not you, but there are many I know who get Realization, who don't

meditate and their style is different. Their nature is different.

 

Meditation is such a soothing thing ... a beautiful way of

connection with the Divine, that all your problems get solved in

that meditative moment.

 

If you are not meditating, you are not following meditation, then

maybe your light will go down. It won't give sufficient light. It's

important, very important to find out about yourself, about others

in the meditation.

 

How to do meditation, many people ask. Don't do anything, just go

into thoughtless awareness. Try to go to the thoughtless awareness.

If you can get into that condition of thoughtless awareness, you can

do your job because that's the point where you are with the truth,

with the reality, with the joy.

 

When you meditate try not to make some sort of a function out of it -

no. Meditation is something silent in yourself, silence in your

thoughts and going to that deep ocean which is within you, itself.

But supposing you don't do that, if you don't meditate I can make

out immediately those who are meditating and those who are not. It's

not difficult for Me.

 

Those who do not meditate are always hesitating. They are confused.

They can't understand. And that's why meditation is the most

important thing.

 

Just like a light burns with the electricity flowing in it, in the

same way meditation is a continuous availability of the Divine

Force. That will reduce all your agitations. Not only that, but it

takes out all the negative thoughts. It takes out all the

discouraging things. And when you are meditating like that,

thoughtless awareness, then you will be amazed how you are helped

from within and without. It's a terrible power that works, this

thoughtless awareness.

 

So those who do not meditate cannot go very much far with the

advantage of Sahaj Yoga. If you are in thoughtless awareness, what

happens to you is that you get the confidence, complete confidence

of divinity. You know you have it.

 

Meditation will give you security.... It will give you are a real

enlightenment and a complete connection with the Divine. Without the

connection of the Divine, what's the use of doing Sahaj Yog?...

 

I've talked so much about meditation before, but today when I see

all these candles burning, I think they are all meditating. They are

all in meditation and that's how they're growing. In the same way,

Sahaja Yogis who meditate, I know. And those who don't, I know. And

if they have problems, I know why the problems are there.

 

It's very important to become thoughtlessly aware because then there

are no thoughts coming from the left or the right, from the [past]

or the future. Just in the present you are there. It's something you

all have. It's not that I'm saying that to you, but all of you have

this, but steady yourself. You have to steady yourself at

thoughtless awareness. How long - that's not the point. The point is

once you've touched it, you'll go on touching it.... It is always

described in all the great books, but not so clearly as I am telling

you.

 

Even for a second, if you get it, it's a very good idea. Then you go

on increasing that second. I think it's a reflecting mind. When you

look at something, you can become thoughtlessly aware and then your

mind deflects to the depth of what you see. That's how you all will

become really very creative Sahaja Yogis.

 

Many people are here who will say, 'Mother, we don't get that

state.' Try. Try that. I don't believe you cannot get it. All of you

can get that thought that 'I can get it.' And you will get it. In

that, you don't have to discard anything, you don't have to see

anything, just go into meditation and you will be amazed how it will

work out. Of course, you are very much there, most of you, but

still, I would say, increase that thoughtless awareness, that area.

 

So today's message is that while you are meditating, go into

thoughtless awareness. No thought is important because it's your own

creation. But if you have to become one with the Divine creation,

you have to get to that state of thoughtless awareness, minimum of

minimum. And that comes to you gradually if you grow and you'll be

amazed how you'll be able to grow into Sahaja Yoga in a very big way.

 

Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

Diwali Puja, November 2, 2002, Los Angeles, USA

[Guest guest]

, " semirafields " <semirafields>

wrote:

>

> Dear Jagbir,

>

> Please can you (or others) explain what the purpose of footsoaking

> is, and what its effects are, and why it has these effects.

> Thanks, Semira

>

>

 

Dear Semira, Anil and rest,

 

All external rituals are placebos in disguise but are required till spiritual

maturity enables them to throw away these crutches. Millions seeks the Divine in

Christian icons, Hindu idols or Buddhist statues. It is hard to convince them

that the Divine is within themselves and not in these man-made figurines.

Centuries-old conditioning is very difficult to eradicate.

 

i want to ask all Buddhists these questions - On whom was Shri Buddha meditating

when He achieved enlightenment? Why can't they too find enlightenment from

within, just like Him? Why is His statue necessary? The answer is that the

external placebo is required, not that they know it is just that. And even if

they are explained that the statue is actually a placebo their conditioning

will always crave for the conviction and sense of security it instills in them.

The placebo is needed at all times to sustain their faith.

 

Footsoaking, chillies, matka, string-burning and other treatments are placebos

that help to invoke what really matters and helps - attention on problem,

meditation, chanting of mantras and the consciousness of being healed. The lemon

or chilly does nothing but initiate a process that eventually actually helps -

attention on problem, meditation, chanting of mantras and the consciousness of

being healed. Lemons and chillies are thus placebos that help sustain the novice

till he/she is established in Sahaja Yoga. All those treatments and time spent

learning them does wonders in sustaining the interest and faith of newcomers.

The same goes for each and every treatment and external ritual in Sahaja Yoga -

they are all placebos required at the kindergarten level.

 

But instead of throwing away these external crutches after a few months SYs

have, horror of horrors, made cleansing techniques into permanent life-long

plaster of Paris replacements. They have turned placebos into miracles cures and

entire collectives are turned into spiritual camps requiring compulsory

cleansing and clearing. Instead of realizing what really heals - like

meditation, thoughtless awareness, and attention - they want you to believe it

is the salt in the water or the capsaicin in the chillies that cures. They will

use all sorts of reasoning and persuasion to toe the official line that has made

cleansing rituals into untouchable sacred cows of Sahaja Yoga. Who then is going

to tell them that being thoughtless, meditating daily and just paying attention

to problems is the power that heals, nourishes and sustains our spiritual

growth?

 

But these SYs have failed to realize, and it is important that this fact is

properly understood, that cleansing rituals become mechanical over time. Daily

repetition dulls the mind and the all-important Consciousness fades away. Using

lemons and chillies is just like popping pills. Less and less attention

(Consciousness) is applied to this mechanical routine. (Even meditation can

sometimes become a routine with neither “Awareness” nor “Thoughtlessness”. i

know this is common.) Since it is the Consciousness and Attention, not the lemon

or chilly, that cures/heals most SYs remain ‘sick’ with catches. And the longer

it takes to heal the more fanatical is the need for treatments. There is neither

genuine healing nor escape from this vicious circle as over time it only gets

more mechanical and devoid of the all-important Consciousness that treatments

were supposed to induce in the first place. SYs just keep on taking more

placebos or stronger doses in a search for cures for these ceaseless catches.

 

The placebos of chillies and lemons are now firmly entrenched in the collective

psyche. That is why the ceaseless chatter of catches and cures will dominate all

brain-storming sessions at collectives, and reason to get together at week-ends.

You just need to keep on clearing because these catches just keep on returning

week after week, month after month, year after year and decade after decade.

 

Ever wonder why placebos for diseases are yet to be recommended by doctors

despite studies that some patients are conned and healed by them? Actually the

said patients were healed by the consciousness of the placebo-effect of being

healed. Don’t chillies and lemons induce the same healing consciousness in SYs?

Why can’t they take a giant spiritual leap and attain that Consciousness,

instead of using placebos to induce it?

 

the answer, my friends, is blowing in the wind,

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

Dear all

i also heard Shri Mataji saying that we should not

take

everything what She says for granted. She emphasised

many times we should carrefully analyse and use our

discretion. Maybe sometimes She wants to check how far

we are, how much improved our understanding is, our

awerness. When a teacher wants to know if the pupils

understood the lesson, he may try to play a bit with

the students and ask tricky questions.

regards

calin

 

visit my web-page :

http://www.geocities.com/calinez

 

 

 

_________

Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter now.

http://www..co.uk/blackberry

[Guest guest]

, " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org> wrote:

>

> But these SYs have failed to realize, and it is important that

> this fact is properly understood, that cleansing rituals become

> mechanical over time. Daily repetition dulls the mind and the all-

> important Consciousness fades away. Using lemons and chillies is

> just like popping pills. Less and less attention (Consciousness)

> is applied to this mechanical routine. (Even meditation can

> sometimes become a routine with neither " Awareness "

> nor " Thoughtlessness " . i know this is common.) Since it is the

> Consciousness and Attention, not the lemon or chilly, that

> cures/heals most SYs remain `sick' with catches. And the longer it

> takes to heal the more fanatical is the need for treatments. There

> is neither genuine healing nor escape from this vicious circle as

> over time it only gets more mechanical and devoid of the all-

> important Consciousness that treatments were supposed to induce in

> the first place. SYs just keep on taking more placebos or stronger

> doses in a search for cures for these ceaseless catches.

>

> The placebos of chillies and lemons are now firmly entrenched in

> the collective psyche. That is why the ceaseless chatter of

> catches and cures will dominate all brain-storming sessions at

> collectives, and reason to get together at week-ends. You just

> need to keep on clearing because these catches just keep on

> returning week after week, month after month, year after year and

> decade after decade.

>

 

i have come across many SYs obsessed with clearing day and night. It

is disturbing to see a SY carrying a ice-pack for years or his wife

daily shoe-beating invisible negativity at the doorstep. Then there

are those who carry lemons and chillies with them, or request

clearing at weekly meditations (or check my vibrations on this

forum). Just seeing SYs clearing catches and working on each other

month and month, year after year made me vunerable and concious of

their 'diseases'. This collective atmosphere mades me feel that we

are all 'sick' and polluted by the negativity, and need to clear,

clear, clear all the time. Even the food, books, movies, clothes,

places, places of worship and what not is cause for clearing.

 

My wife later admitted that she was actually tensed-up when SYs came

for their weekly meditations or pujas at my place for (5 years). How

will you feel if normal tea or chicken curry or milk (or ...) is

against a healthy subtle system? It was an endless lesson in the

goodness of halal culinarfy habits/dress code/movie ratings/book

reviews/and what not. There were 1001 ways to catch a catch or

polute the vibrations or mess up the subtle system. The mantra was

always clear, clear, clear, footsoak, footsoak, footsoak, chillies,

chillies, chillies, lemons, lemo, le ...... (i am getting tired of

tapping the keyboard). Where was the joy of being the eternal spirit

or the conviction of taking part in the Last Judgment or the

conversations of Her Divine Message? The consciousness was always

about catches, clearing and cures.

 

i wonder if they know that the thoughtless state, Nirvikalpa samadhi

and knowedlge of " Aham Brahmasmi " is absolutely necessary for moksa.

Shri Mataji never claimed that good vibrations will liberate. Yet

SYs work day and night clearing. What is the nature of this

mysterious negativity that needs a lifetime of clearing? If so much

time and effort is daily used to clear when will they start

attaining the Consciousness that matters most? Why has clearing

taken precedence over attaining the thoughtless state, Nirvikalpa

Samadhi and Knowledge of Brahman? Who ever said that having good

vibrations is going to give you moksa?

 

i have copied Semira's reply to a " Rules of Ashram " rule that is

applicable for those SYs wishing to stay there. The questions and

criticism raised is relevant to my assertion that i am 100% sure

Shri Mataji never insisted footsoaking be a daily ritual. It also

confirms why few seekers are interested in Sahaja Yoga. As i have

always maintained, if not for my children meeting the Adi Shakti in

their Sahasraras i would never have joined Sahaja Yoga. That the

whole family is determined (and happy) to stay away from clearing-

obsessed collectives/ashrams the rest of our lives is regarded as

yet another blessing from the Adi Shakti. Semira's concern is my

concern too. Why should anyone be subject to such an obsession? The

only way to escape such conditioning is to leave the collective.

 

 

jagbir

 

> -you are required to work hard on clearing yourself, and ensuring

> you are keeping your vibrations as good as you possibly can

 

Something seems wrong here....to have to work hard on clearing

yourself is in direct conflict with the message of Christianity, for

example. Salvation is not attained by endless obsession with

negativity, fear of negativity, and this attitude of constant

clearing can only open the way to people putting focus on their own

faults, others faults, creating guilt, shame, judgement of oneself

and others, and this is the opposite of the message of Christ. He

came to reveal that we are accepted and forgiven as we are, not that

we have to go on and on obsessing about everything we have done and

thought wrong in our lives. If you have to 'clear out' all the time,

where does the 'letting go' concept come in?

Is knowing God a gift, or is it earned?

 

Semira

[Guest guest]

Dear Jagbir and everybody,

 

Foot-soaking is not a uniquely Sahaja Yoga treatment. It probably

has its origins in Ayurvedic medicine. It is also a common technique

of treatment in Japanese and Chinese traditional folk medicine. The

problem we have in Sahaja Yoga is that Sahaja Yogis have a tendency

to reduce any concept or idea to an absurdity; these are the expert

practitioners of reductio ad absurdum. This tendency to carry the

sensible advice of Shri Mataji to any illogical conclusion has

created any number of patients of yet another malady: the obsessive

compulsive disorder. Visit any ashram or collective and you will

very likely meet these soot-besmeared, wax-encrusted, and matka-

toting clowns. Whatever happened to the concept of moderation in

everything we do, the middle path?

 

Be that as it may, Shri Mataji has indeed had positive words to say

about foot-soaking. In the excerpt below She explains how Sahaja

Yogis and the chakras can be helped by the elements through foot-

soaking because we are, after all, constituted from the elements.

However Shri Mataji also emphasises that Sahaja Yoga has to be

worked out rather than to be thought out. So stubborn mental

fixation on any treatments or techniques or concepts have to be

avoided.

 

C.

 

 

" ...Now everyone must have a regular sitting in the water everyday,

that's important. Every morning you must do your meditation, because

on mental level, we feel we have been with Mother, alright, this

exposure is alright. You came, you saw how Indians are and how

they're light on their feet and how they're good for Sahaja Yoga.

But after seeing all that, you have to know that Sahaja Yoga is to

be worked out, it's not to be thought out. You just cannot think

about it. Whatever you may try to do through your thought you cannot

achieve any results in Sahaja Yoga; you have to use your hands, you

have to use your feet, you have to soak your feet in the water

because water is the ocean. All these five chakras, or say, six

chakras which are - I say five because one is the Mooladhara chakra

which is the seventh and the top-most is the brain. So in between

five chakras which are there, are to be handled fully with the idea

that they are basically made of matter. And these five elements

constitute the body of these chakras. Now these chakras, if they're

to be corrected, we have to correct them by taking out all the

problems of these chakras into the elements from which they come. "

 

(Puja at Vaitarna, India, 21/1/83)

 

 

 

 

, " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org> wrote:

>

> , " jagbir singh "

> <adishakti_org> wrote:

> >

> > But these SYs have failed to realize, and it is important that

> > this fact is properly understood, that cleansing rituals become

> > mechanical over time. Daily repetition dulls the mind and the

all-

> > important Consciousness fades away. Using lemons and chillies is

> > just like popping pills. Less and less attention (Consciousness)

> > is applied to this mechanical routine. (Even meditation can

> > sometimes become a routine with neither " Awareness "

> > nor " Thoughtlessness " . i know this is common.) Since it is the

> > Consciousness and Attention, not the lemon or chilly, that

> > cures/heals most SYs remain `sick' with catches. And the longer

it

> > takes to heal the more fanatical is the need for treatments.

There

> > is neither genuine healing nor escape from this vicious circle

as

> > over time it only gets more mechanical and devoid of the all-

> > important Consciousness that treatments were supposed to induce

in

> > the first place. SYs just keep on taking more placebos or

stronger

> > doses in a search for cures for these ceaseless catches.

> >

> > The placebos of chillies and lemons are now firmly entrenched in

> > the collective psyche. That is why the ceaseless chatter of

> > catches and cures will dominate all brain-storming sessions at

> > collectives, and reason to get together at week-ends. You just

> > need to keep on clearing because these catches just keep on

> > returning week after week, month after month, year after year

and

> > decade after decade.

> >

>

> i have come across many SYs obsessed with clearing day and night.

It

> is disturbing to see a SY carrying a ice-pack for years or his

wife

> daily shoe-beating invisible negativity at the doorstep. Then

there

> are those who carry lemons and chillies with them, or request

> clearing at weekly meditations (or check my vibrations on this

> forum). Just seeing SYs clearing catches and working on each other

> month and month, year after year made me vunerable and concious of

> their 'diseases'. This collective atmosphere mades me feel that we

> are all 'sick' and polluted by the negativity, and need to clear,

> clear, clear all the time. Even the food, books, movies, clothes,

> places, places of worship and what not is cause for clearing.

>

> My wife later admitted that she was actually tensed-up when SYs

came

> for their weekly meditations or pujas at my place for (5 years).

How

> will you feel if normal tea or chicken curry or milk (or ...) is

> against a healthy subtle system? It was an endless lesson in the

> goodness of halal culinarfy habits/dress code/movie ratings/book

> reviews/and what not. There were 1001 ways to catch a catch or

> polute the vibrations or mess up the subtle system. The mantra was

> always clear, clear, clear, footsoak, footsoak, footsoak,

chillies,

> chillies, chillies, lemons, lemo, le ...... (i am getting tired of

> tapping the keyboard). Where was the joy of being the eternal

spirit

> or the conviction of taking part in the Last Judgment or the

> conversations of Her Divine Message? The consciousness was always

> about catches, clearing and cures.

>

> i wonder if they know that the thoughtless state, Nirvikalpa

samadhi

> and knowedlge of " Aham Brahmasmi " is absolutely necessary for

moksa.

> Shri Mataji never claimed that good vibrations will liberate. Yet

> SYs work day and night clearing. What is the nature of this

> mysterious negativity that needs a lifetime of clearing? If so

much

> time and effort is daily used to clear when will they start

> attaining the Consciousness that matters most? Why has clearing

> taken precedence over attaining the thoughtless state, Nirvikalpa

> Samadhi and Knowledge of Brahman? Who ever said that having good

> vibrations is going to give you moksa?

>

> i have copied Semira's reply to a " Rules of Ashram " rule that is

> applicable for those SYs wishing to stay there. The questions and

> criticism raised is relevant to my assertion that i am 100% sure

> Shri Mataji never insisted footsoaking be a daily ritual. It also

> confirms why few seekers are interested in Sahaja Yoga. As i have

> always maintained, if not for my children meeting the Adi Shakti

in

> their Sahasraras i would never have joined Sahaja Yoga. That the

> whole family is determined (and happy) to stay away from clearing-

> obsessed collectives/ashrams the rest of our lives is regarded as

> yet another blessing from the Adi Shakti. Semira's concern is my

> concern too. Why should anyone be subject to such an obsession?

The

> only way to escape such conditioning is to leave the collective.

>

>

> jagbir

>

> > -you are required to work hard on clearing yourself, and ensuring

> > you are keeping your vibrations as good as you possibly can

>

> Something seems wrong here....to have to work hard on clearing

> yourself is in direct conflict with the message of Christianity,

for

> example. Salvation is not attained by endless obsession with

> negativity, fear of negativity, and this attitude of constant

> clearing can only open the way to people putting focus on their own

> faults, others faults, creating guilt, shame, judgement of oneself

> and others, and this is the opposite of the message of Christ. He

> came to reveal that we are accepted and forgiven as we are, not

that

> we have to go on and on obsessing about everything we have done and

> thought wrong in our lives. If you have to 'clear out' all the

time,

> where does the 'letting go' concept come in?

> Is knowing God a gift, or is it earned?

>

> Semira

>

[Guest guest]

IMHO it is quite obvious that Shree Mataji is talking about using the elements and meditation to correct the chakras.

One of the elements is the ocean which is equivalent to salt water.

I spent 9 yrs without vibrations (although everyone around me could

feel that i had vibrations) and a 10 day stay at Belapur corrected that

- lots of footsoaking,sitting on Mother Earth, ice pack and candle

treatment.To call it placebo is

IMHO is unfair and also unproven. No one can say that a treatment works

or is a placebo unless a rigid study is done - in Western medicine.

 

I stopped doing all the treatments of Belapur within weeks of checking

out from it and have only been meditating twice daily with complete dedication and faith

almost without fail.The vibrations are great(better than when i left

Belapur) and am really at peace but would never say that the treatment

had a placebo effect and thus indirectly mean that they of not much

use.I needed them at that juncture but right now meditation is

sufficient despite my job of meeting people who are sick at work.

 

 

Regards

 

BalwinderOn 2/2/06, chiranjeevikumars <chiranjeevikumars wrote:

, " my2pai " <my2pai>wrote:>> Dear Jagbir and everybody,>> Foot-soaking is not a uniquely Sahaja Yoga treatment. It probably

> has its origins in Ayurvedic medicine. It is also a common technique> of treatment in Japanese and Chinese traditional folk medicine.Dear my2paiJai Shri Mataji!!The practice of foot-soaking,hand-soaking, and full body soaking in

hot or cold water has been practiced before sahaja yoga.None of those have ever added salt in the water,by the way,as Iunderstand.Also none of those have connected the process with the meditationpractice.

As I was saying before,unless one meditates while foot soaking,theywill get just a nice pair of salty feet,nicely washed.There are otherbenefits,as the tingling on the bottom of the feet,as feet arestimulated by the hot water,but that's it.There are lots ofacupuncture points on the feet,so stimulating them with hot water willdo you good.But this has absolutely nothing to do with the real spiritualaccent.Did Shri Buddha foot soaked before he's got his

self-realization? Did Shri Mataji said 'foot-soak,and you will reachthe kingdom of heaven?' Did Shri Jesus said that even?Did any great incarnation do that?Water and earth(salt) are lower chakras.I agree with Jagbir that one

should not get stuck on those,but strive to reach the thoughtlessawareness,and let Mother Kundalini purify all the chakras.I believe Shri Mataji was talking about the 'water of life'mostly,which is the Mother Kundalini,rather then the regular tap water.

Soak in the 'water of life',my2pai,not into the regular water.As ShriJesus said 'the water I'll give you,you'll never get thirsty again'Jai Shri Mataji!!Chiran

[Guest guest]

Dear Chandra, Jagbir and All,

 

Chandra, you quoted....

 

" ...Now everyone must have a regular sitting in the water everyday, that's

important. Every morning you must do your meditation, because on mental level,

we feel we have been with Mother, alright, this exposure is alright. You came,

you saw how Indians are and how they're light on their feet and how they're good

for Sahaja Yoga. But after seeing all that, you have to know that Sahaja Yoga is

to be worked out, it's not to be thought out. You just cannot think about it.

Whatever you may try to do through your thought you cannot achieve any results

in Sahaja Yoga; you have to use your hands, you have to use your feet, you have

to soak your feet in the water because water is the ocean. All these five

chakras, or say, six chakras which are - I say five because one is the

Mooladhara chakra which is the seventh and the top-most is the brain. So in

between five chakras which are there, are to be handled fully with the idea that

they are basically made of matter. And these five elements constitute the body

of these chakras. Now these chakras, if they're to be corrected, we have to

correct them by taking out all the problems of these chakras into the elements

from which they come. "

 

(Puja at Vaitarna, India, 21/1/83)

 

 

Thank you for your very interesting information, Chandra.

 

Chandra, in the quote you give, if you look at it closely, Shri Mataji says

right at the end of the quote that " Now these chakras, if they're to be

corrected, we have to correct them by taking out all the problems of these

chakras into the elements from which they come. "

 

The specific words…. " if they're to be corrected " …. i take to mean that obviously

the chakras are not working correctly as yet.

 

In that case, this is an instruction for when a person's chakras are not working

properly as yet and therefore the Kundalini Energy cannot flow unobstructedly as

needs to be the case, because the blockages/catches are still stopping the flow

of the Kundalini Energy and She is the Primordial Energy of the Universe who

does all the work of Creation, Healing and Clearing.

 

It is my belief that Shri Mataji fully expects the chakras to be working

correctly in each yogi, and She has gone to every length and given us 1001 ways

(figuratively speaking) to achieve this. It is my experience and therefore my

own knowledge gained and therefore also my own opinion based on knowledge and

experience gained, that we are all expected to reach the point where the

Kundalini can successfully flow through all chakras and clear away any

blocks/catches.

 

The fact is that if the Kundalini is flowing freely, that means that there is no

chakra blockage, to obstruct Her flow. Little catches here and there are really

nothing at all. That is part of life. Our subtle system registers anything and

everything we put our attention too, and if it wants/needs to warn us about

something, will do so. If our attention is surrendered to the Divine Within,

these minor registrations come and go without any drama at all.

 

So………in my experience, this chakra blockage state is not a lifelong state,

because once the Kundalini flows freely, how can the chakra remain blocked? If

the Kundalini energy is flowing freely, the Chakra will not remain blocked

because the energy is flowing freely. If the chakra is blocked, then yes, the

Kundalini is not flowing freely. Either the Kundalini energy is flowing freely,

or it is not. I think the Kundalini energy flows freely and unobstructedly only

once someone surrenders themselves completely as an instrument to the Divine.

Until then, they will remain in chakra blockage consciousness, instead of in

Kundalini Clearing Consciousness.

 

There seems to be an over-emphasis of physical chakra clearing in Sahaja Yoga

and an under-emphasis on having a pure heart and the ability of the greatest

power on Earth, the Kundalini to Clear the chakras, once it can flow without

obstruction.

 

The thing is, Chakra Clearing is not even about the Real Knowledge, because the

Real Knowledge is to KNOW WHAT IS GOD. There needs to be a re-distribution of

emphasis away from obsessive Chakra Blockage Consciousness, and more of an

emphasis and attention on the Kundalini Consciousness, without which a person

cannot know WHAT IS GOD. To Know What Is God is the Gnyana, or Internal, Gnostic

Knowledge, which we can only receive by going within and establishing a

relationship with the Divine Mother Within us.

 

Chakra cleansing is a means to this end. Once the Kundalini can flow clearly,

then we have achieved the means to the end, which is to have Inner Knowledge.

The Inner Knowledge of Connection to the Divine is a Definite Awareness, which

is received. This awareness is not received in the form of Thoughts. It comes in

a Higher Form. It comes in the Form of `thought-less' Awareness………such as

Intuition, Inspiration, Understanding and Wisdom, that a person does not know

where and how this just comes……….it miraculously flows from the Divine Within

(from the throne of God Himself at Sahasrara Centre/Chakra)……….and that is why

chakras cleansing is only a means to an end and not the end in itself.

 

If a person goes on and on and on with chakra cleansing and does not try to KNOW

WHAT IS THE DIVINE WITHIN, they are getting nowhere really, and all the chakra

cleansing is pointless. In other words, the reason for chakra cleansing is not

just to be blockage/catch-free. The real reason for chakra cleansing only begins

once the Kundalini can actually flow unobstructively………. and that is where

greater spiritual possibilities of spiritual evolution can happen in one's

life………. possibilities that your own connected Spirit will reveal to you in a

very individual way…and different to everyone else's spiritual possibilities,

for we are all unique divine sparks of God.

 

Here are Words of Shri Mataji in regards to what is the Real Knowledge:

 

" The real knowledge is to know what is God.(...). It's God Almighty, who knows

everything, who does everything, who enjoys everything. That is the one we

should say is the gnyana, is the knowledge. It's the true knowledge, the pure

knowledge.

 

It is not the knowledge of chakras, not the knowledge of vibrations, not the

knowledge of Kundalini, but the knowledge of God Almighty. And the knowledge of

God Almighty is not mental. " (Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi)

 

(From Shri Adi Shakti Forum – Forum Category of 'What is Meditation')

 

(The forum is experiencing technical difficulties at the moment, so cannot do

this URL, just now, sorry.)

 

i also know from my own experience and experimentation with chakras and

Kundalini that Shri Mataji is not just talking about little chakra blockages

here and there either, because most of these get cleared in meditation, and we

are not to worry about every littlest chakra catch because that will lead to

obsession, instead of `moderation in all things'.

 

The other thing to remember is that, once a person's Kundalini is flowing

clearly, their subtle system will register spontaneously of its own will,

whenever it so wishes and this is in relation to 'what' and `where' a person is

putting their attention. This 'spontaneous subtle system registration', which is

also felt as a `catch' that comes and goes in seconds/minutes…. is given as

subtle system knowledge and it could also be a `subtle' warning to take one's

attention off of the subject matter or off of the person they have their

attention on.

 

Anyway, here are Shri Mataji's Words where She says that we are not to worry

about every little chakra blockage and how very important it is to become

`thoughtlessly aware' and to surrender and THEN your chakras are cleared up, and

you will find that most of your chakras will clear out in meditation.

 

" So first you become thoughtlessly aware. Then the growth of spirituality starts

after thoughtless awareness, not before - one should know that.

 

On a rational plane you cannot grow in Sahaja Yoga. So first thing is to

establish your thoughtless awareness. Still you might feel little chakra

blockages here and there - forget it. Just forget it.

 

Now start your surrendering. Now if a chakra is catching, you should say,

" Mother, I surrender this to you. " Instead of doing any of these things you can

just say that . . .. If there are any thoughts coming in to you or any chakra

catching, just surrender. And you see that the chakras are cleared up . . ..

You'll find out most of your chakras will clear out in the meditation. "

 

Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi (Nirmala Yoga Jan-Feb 1984)

 

(http://adishakti.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=581)

 

In another place, and this is in the information on the Booklet of the

Mooladhara that Shri Mataji wrote…She says of the lowest chakra of the body (the

Mooladhara), that… " the best way to cleanse for Sahaja Yogis is to be pure in

one's heart, to lead a chaste life full of good thoughts and deeds " ....

 

(http://adishakti.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=642)

 

So, here Shri Mataji says that the best way to cleanse is for Sahaja Yogis to be

pure in one's heart.

 

That is an inner cleansing method, instead of an external one. Yet, it is the

best way to cleanse, according to Shri Mataji.

 

Maybe it is the best way to cleanse, when we are able to cleanse in that way.

Maybe for some, the external cleansing practices are all that is possible when

they first come to Sahaja Yoga, and they have to do this everyday, until

finally, they can do the best way of cleansing, which is to be pure in one's

heart, but purity in one's heart, is a very advanced thing, spiritually. It

involves the enlightened attention, introspection, and very definitely daily

meditation practices.

 

So, knowing all these 1001 different advices (figuratively speaking) for every

permutation and every combination, why do we have to get obsessed and rigid

about one or another method of what after all, is just chakra cleansing. It is

not the KNOWLEDE OF GOD of itself at all. That is a completely different matter,

as Shri Mataji has told Herself. Can't we just relax and not be obsessive about

it all. If we become obsessive about it all, we will just become fanatical and

will catch/block the Mooladhara chakra anyway, because fanaticism and rigidity

is one of the causes for the Mooladhara Chakra not allowing the Kundalini to

flow freely!

 

So…lets allow each other to just experiment with complete liberty and be at

peace and relax and allow each other to find out what works for each of us.

Also, lets share and accept each other's experiences and realize that we are all

right, according to our own experience. That is why i will never give anyone

advice on this, unless asked for, and if i am asked for advice, i can only give

advice on my OWN experience, and not on someone else's experience.

 

That is why it is very important that each person just tries these cleansing

practices for themselves. i have tried all of them, and they all work. However,

the best result is when someone can finally surrender everything to the Divine,

in my experience, because then it is all taken care of.

 

This is why Shri Mataji has asked us to be like scientists. That way we discover

our own conclusion on the cleansing practises. Shri Mataji did not intend for us

to argue on all the different cleansing practices She gave. She told us to just

try them, and find out for ourselves………everything and view it scientifically and

not like a religion that then causes `religious differences of opinion'.

 

i would like to tell of my experience and experimentation with chakras, subtle

system and cleansing practices, and my understanding of all these through my own

experience of putting into practice what Shri Mataji has shown, because as i

have already said, i cannot talk of what others experience and have tested, I

can only talk from what i have experienced and tested.

 

First of all, i want to say, i had a " possession " within myself. i also had what

is called " permanent catches/blocks " and i had other minor catches as well. So,

here is my story and what i have discovered, according to my own unique

permutations and combinations.

 

When i was first coming to SY Meditation Classes in a private home of a Sahaja

Yogi, i was given private lessons and also given vibrational clearing of the

chakras by the mother and daughter SY's who were helping me. They knew how much

help i also needed from all my questions and Christian conditionings, and were

very loving and helpful to me in every way.

 

Meanwhile i also developed great faith in Shri Mataji, my New Spiritual Mother,

in a very short time because i had been spiritually searching for the Holy

Spirit, and they told me that She was the Holy Spirit promised by Scriptures, so

i was very happy that i had found Her. Of course, i had to make sure of this and

asked many questions, and also what Shri Mataji would say, and that She agreed

with Jesus's teachings also.

 

i knew how much spiritual baggage of negativity from all the seeking in

different nooks and crannies had given me, and i begged Mother to rid me of all

my spiritual burdens/baggage, also known as 'negativity'. Here is that story:

 

One night, while i was being given vibrations and chakra clearing by the two

yoginis…(and i was completely well…. or so it seemed)…without warning i became

very ill. i mean i had to get a paper bag and had to vomit. i was literally

sick, right out of the blue, without warning. i did not know what was happening

to me at the time. (i know it was some " possession " leaving my subtle system

now)

 

Anyway they put me to bed because it was like an instant flu that came on, and i

was very sick from what was trying to leave me. But i had great faith in my

newfound Mother, Shri Mataji and realized She was clearing me of what needed

clearing.

 

About two days later, i started feeling better. i was lying in bed with what

felt like one of the worst flu i have ever experienced in my life. i thought at

one stage i might die...it was so bad. When i was starting to feel like i might

die, something amazing happened.

 

i saw Shri Mataji's face above me as i looked up to the ceiling and Her Look

told me not to worry. Her face was full of love, and conveyed to me that She was

there, and She was doing this, which I had prayed for. Shri Mataji was clearing

me all at once. She was the author of that. Of course, i had asked Her to clear

me completely, and i was getting what i asked for. She took me at my request,

obviously. So, i was so thankful and grateful to Her, and very happy and knew i

would survive this cleansing process.

 

Therefore, i have a very visceral experience of Shri Mataji's healing and

cleansing power within myself. i recovered very quickly after that. Then, when i

got up i felt physically lighter in weight, and i also felt like i was when i

was a child. It was amazing. It was like all my burdens had lifted and i had

been born again all over and renewed completely. i have never looked back since

then.

 

For a number of years after that, i did daily cleansing practices and continued

with that, until i realized that all permanent catches/blocks were gone as well.

(By permanent 'catches', i am talking about how a particular finger or something

can continually register the same catch/block day after day after day. So i

worked and worked and worked on clearing, but i also worked on my introspection

and became very aware of what i am thinking, where my attention is, and so

forth.

 

My experience is that, i found no matter how much i did the external cleansing

practices with regard to these catches/blocks, it was not until i also

introspected and watched to see where my attention was going and what it was on

and surrendered these minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day, and week by

week to the Divine Mother Within, that these permanent catches/blocks actually

cleared forever.

 

Therefore, it is my opinion, and someone may have another opinion on this,

because everyone has their unique experience of putting into practice what Shri

Mataji has shown…………..that a person can externally clear and clear and clear and

the permanent catch on a finger may never go away, until they check where their

attention is also. Chakra/blockages are actually psychosomatic blocks. They

involve body and mind, and the body may get all the clearing, but the mental and

emotional blocks may be what is actually the cause of the permanent

catches/blocks. For example, fanatical and fixed attitudes are definitely a

psychosomatic block and will also cause a catch. It is not just physically

oriented from our environment, these catches/blocks. So can racism, lack of love

towards others, trying to dominate others, and all such leave permanent

blocks/catches on these fingers. In other words, our attitudes to ourselves and

others can leave permanent catches/blocks registering on our subtle system.

 

Sorry, for repeating this again, but it is my experience that i was clearing

religiously day after day, but my permanent chakra catches/blocks did not budge

until i actually surrendered my " attention " to Shri Mataji Within……….to the

Mother Within myself. i believe now, that this is so, because when we do this,

our attention learns to stay up there where it should, at Sahasrara, and She is

working day and night while we are surrendered to Her. After all, She resides up

there…at Sahasrara and is the Deity up there. So, if we surrender to Her, then

She takes care of us, at every level.

 

So………i was glad when my permanent catches/blocks finally disappeared.

 

Then, it was only little catches, here and there that flowed in and out. When i

put my attention on them, i found that as long as i surrendered to Mother, and

kept my attention `up there'…then these little catches would come and go

automatically.

 

i am not the only one that has experienced this, because here are Jagbir's

words, where he talks about this:

 

" i experience these petty catches nearly everyday when i visit the nearby

supermarket and humans pass me by. But the Mother Kundalini immediately clears

them after a few seconds, if not minutes. There has been absolutely no need to

foot-soak because i leave it all to the Mother Kundalini within me. i have

intentionally surrendered all to the Mother Kundalini because i dislike rituals

which are nothing more than 'forced attention' to rectify a problem. It is far

better and easier to heal by being thoughtlessly aware and leaving it to the

Mother Kundalini. "

 

(http://adishakti.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=612)

 

Therefore, i am glad, that i am not the only one that has experienced this.

Jagbir has too, which is a confirmation also of my experience, too and i am

thankful for that knowledge. This is why it is important to share/communicate

with each other on these issues, so we can know that we are not the only one to

have experienced something `to be so'.

 

Then through experimentation, because this is the approach I have always taken,

rather than a mechanical non-introspective approach, i also found that i would

register a catch if a put my attention on something or someone. This would come

spontaneously. So, i would introspect and find out what i was putting my

attention on, and realize that either i was putting my attention on something

wrong, or i was putting my attention on a particular person, and was registering

some feedback from them.

 

From this, i realized how dynamic the biofeedback system is within us when we

are connected to the Divine. And how it tells us everything we need to know

really, in relations to what is dharmic and not dharmic or `adharmic'.

 

This biofeedback system within us is really amazing!

 

That is what it is all about. It is about having this biofeedback system working

clearly within us and fully working, so we can go beyond the catch/cure

consciousness. In fact, the consciousness must be up at Sahasrara to even go

beyond this catch/cure consciousness.

 

Everyone has to experiment for themselves and discover the truth for themselves

on their own fingertips on their own subtle system. i do not believe in telling

others what to do. i only believe in sharing with others from what i have found

through SY experimentation, and Shri Mataji has asked us to be like scientist,

and not follow anything blindly.

 

When we put what Shri Mataji has shown into practice, we will find out for

ourselves. We don't have to rely on what others tell us will happen. That is the

best way.

 

i also want to say that we must not have fixed attitudes about cleansing

practices, because any fixed attitudes and opinions about anything also

registers in a chakra catch/block.

 

Love and best wishes,

 

Violet

 

 

 

- In , " my2pai " <my2pai

wrote:

>

> Dear Jagbir and everybody,

>

> Foot-soaking is not a uniquely Sahaja Yoga treatment. It probably

> has its origins in Ayurvedic medicine. It is also a common

technique

> of treatment in Japanese and Chinese traditional folk medicine.

The

> problem we have in Sahaja Yoga is that Sahaja Yogis have a

tendency

> to reduce any concept or idea to an absurdity; these are the

expert

> practitioners of reductio ad absurdum. This tendency to carry the

> sensible advice of Shri Mataji to any illogical conclusion has

> created any number of patients of yet another malady: the

obsessive

> compulsive disorder. Visit any ashram or collective and you will

> very likely meet these soot-besmeared, wax-encrusted, and matka-

> toting clowns. Whatever happened to the concept of moderation in

> everything we do, the middle path?

>

> Be that as it may, Shri Mataji has indeed had positive words to

say

> about foot-soaking. In the excerpt below She explains how Sahaja

> Yogis and the chakras can be helped by the elements through foot-

> soaking because we are, after all, constituted from the elements.

> However Shri Mataji also emphasises that Sahaja Yoga has to be

> worked out rather than to be thought out. So stubborn mental

> fixation on any treatments or techniques or concepts have to be

> avoided.

>

> C.

>

>

> " ...Now everyone must have a regular sitting in the water

everyday,

> that's important. Every morning you must do your meditation,

because

> on mental level, we feel we have been with Mother, alright, this

> exposure is alright. You came, you saw how Indians are and how

> they're light on their feet and how they're good for Sahaja Yoga.

> But after seeing all that, you have to know that Sahaja Yoga is to

> be worked out, it's not to be thought out. You just cannot think

> about it. Whatever you may try to do through your thought you

cannot

> achieve any results in Sahaja Yoga; you have to use your hands,

you

> have to use your feet, you have to soak your feet in the water

> because water is the ocean. All these five chakras, or say, six

> chakras which are - I say five because one is the Mooladhara

chakra

> which is the seventh and the top-most is the brain. So in between

> five chakras which are there, are to be handled fully with the

idea

> that they are basically made of matter. And these five elements

> constitute the body of these chakras. Now these chakras, if

they're

> to be corrected, we have to correct them by taking out all the

> problems of these chakras into the elements from which they come. "

>

> (Puja at Vaitarna, India, 21/1/83)

>

>

>

>

> , " jagbir singh "

> <adishakti_org> wrote:

> >

> > , " jagbir singh "

> > <adishakti_org> wrote:

> > >

> > > But these SYs have failed to realize, and it is important that

> > > this fact is properly understood, that cleansing rituals

become

> > > mechanical over time. Daily repetition dulls the mind and the

> all-

> > > important Consciousness fades away. Using lemons and chillies

is

> > > just like popping pills. Less and less attention

(Consciousness)

> > > is applied to this mechanical routine. (Even meditation can

> > > sometimes become a routine with neither " Awareness "

> > > nor " Thoughtlessness " . i know this is common.) Since it is the

> > > Consciousness and Attention, not the lemon or chilly, that

> > > cures/heals most SYs remain `sick' with catches. And the

longer

> it

> > > takes to heal the more fanatical is the need for treatments.

> There

> > > is neither genuine healing nor escape from this vicious circle

> as

> > > over time it only gets more mechanical and devoid of the all-

> > > important Consciousness that treatments were supposed to

induce

> in

> > > the first place. SYs just keep on taking more placebos or

> stronger

> > > doses in a search for cures for these ceaseless catches.

> > >

> > > The placebos of chillies and lemons are now firmly entrenched

in

> > > the collective psyche. That is why the ceaseless chatter of

> > > catches and cures will dominate all brain-storming sessions at

> > > collectives, and reason to get together at week-ends. You just

> > > need to keep on clearing because these catches just keep on

> > > returning week after week, month after month, year after year

> and

> > > decade after decade.

> > >

> >

> > i have come across many SYs obsessed with clearing day and

night.

> It

> > is disturbing to see a SY carrying a ice-pack for years or his

> wife

> > daily shoe-beating invisible negativity at the doorstep. Then

> there

> > are those who carry lemons and chillies with them, or request

> > clearing at weekly meditations (or check my vibrations on this

> > forum). Just seeing SYs clearing catches and working on each

other

> > month and month, year after year made me vunerable and concious

of

> > their 'diseases'. This collective atmosphere mades me feel that

we

> > are all 'sick' and polluted by the negativity, and need to

clear,

> > clear, clear all the time. Even the food, books, movies,

clothes,

> > places, places of worship and what not is cause for clearing.

> >

> > My wife later admitted that she was actually tensed-up when SYs

> came

> > for their weekly meditations or pujas at my place for (5 years).

> How

> > will you feel if normal tea or chicken curry or milk (or ...) is

> > against a healthy subtle system? It was an endless lesson in the

> > goodness of halal culinarfy habits/dress code/movie ratings/book

> > reviews/and what not. There were 1001 ways to catch a catch or

> > polute the vibrations or mess up the subtle system. The mantra

was

> > always clear, clear, clear, footsoak, footsoak, footsoak,

> chillies,

> > chillies, chillies, lemons, lemo, le ...... (i am getting tired

of

> > tapping the keyboard). Where was the joy of being the eternal

> spirit

> > or the conviction of taking part in the Last Judgment or the

> > conversations of Her Divine Message? The consciousness was

always

> > about catches, clearing and cures.

> >

> > i wonder if they know that the thoughtless state, Nirvikalpa

> samadhi

> > and knowedlge of " Aham Brahmasmi " is absolutely necessary for

> moksa.

> > Shri Mataji never claimed that good vibrations will liberate.

Yet

> > SYs work day and night clearing. What is the nature of this

> > mysterious negativity that needs a lifetime of clearing? If so

> much

> > time and effort is daily used to clear when will they start

> > attaining the Consciousness that matters most? Why has clearing

> > taken precedence over attaining the thoughtless state,

Nirvikalpa

> > Samadhi and Knowledge of Brahman? Who ever said that having good

> > vibrations is going to give you moksa?

> >

> > i have copied Semira's reply to a " Rules of Ashram " rule that is

> > applicable for those SYs wishing to stay there. The questions

and

> > criticism raised is relevant to my assertion that i am 100% sure

> > Shri Mataji never insisted footsoaking be a daily ritual. It

also

> > confirms why few seekers are interested in Sahaja Yoga. As i

have

> > always maintained, if not for my children meeting the Adi Shakti

> in

> > their Sahasraras i would never have joined Sahaja Yoga. That the

> > whole family is determined (and happy) to stay away from

clearing-

> > obsessed collectives/ashrams the rest of our lives is regarded

as

> > yet another blessing from the Adi Shakti. Semira's concern is my

> > concern too. Why should anyone be subject to such an obsession?

> The

> > only way to escape such conditioning is to leave the collective.

> >

> >

> > jagbir

> >

> > > -you are required to work hard on clearing yourself, and

ensuring

> > > you are keeping your vibrations as good as you possibly can

> >

> > Something seems wrong here....to have to work hard on clearing

> > yourself is in direct conflict with the message of Christianity,

> for

> > example. Salvation is not attained by endless obsession with

> > negativity, fear of negativity, and this attitude of constant

> > clearing can only open the way to people putting focus on their

own

> > faults, others faults, creating guilt, shame, judgement of

oneself

> > and others, and this is the opposite of the message of Christ. He

> > came to reveal that we are accepted and forgiven as we are, not

> that

> > we have to go on and on obsessing about everything we have done

and

> > thought wrong in our lives. If you have to 'clear out' all the

> time,

> > where does the 'letting go' concept come in?

> > Is knowing God a gift, or is it earned?

> >

> > Semira

[Guest guest]

, Balwinder Mann

<balwinderdr wrote:

>

> IMHO it is quite obvious that Shree Mataji is talking about using

> the elements and meditation to correct the chakras. One of the

> elements is the ocean which is equivalent to salt water. I spent 9

> yrs without vibrations (although everyone around me could feel

> that i had vibrations) and a 10 day stay at Belapur corrected

> that - lots of footsoaking, sitting on Mother Earth, ice pack and

> candle treatment. To call it placebo is IMHO is unfair and also

> unproven. No one can say that a treatment works or is a placebo

> unless a rigid study is done - in Western medicine.

>

> I stopped doing all the treatments of Belapur within weeks of

> checking out from it and have only been meditating twice daily

> with complete dedication and faith almost without fail. The

> vibrations are great(better than when i left Belapur) and am

> really at peace but would never say that the treatment had a

> placebo effect and thus indirectly mean that they of not much

> use. I needed them at that juncture but right now meditation is

> sufficient despite my job of meeting people who are sick at work.

>

 

 

Dear Balwinder and All,

 

Perhaps placebo is a provocative word to use on spiritual issues but

if one considers the necessity of describing the obsession of Sys,

it is quite justified. i feel that it is the only word that may

induce common sense and balance in our collectives ........... but

please don't hold your breath. It will take time for this scared cow

of SY treatments to lose its 'divine status' and cease to be

worshipped.

 

" Ayurveda believes that everything in this universe is made up of

five great elements or building blocks. These are earth, water,

fire, air, and ether.

 

Earth represents the solid state of matter. It manifests stability,

permanence, and rigidity. In our body, the parts such as bones,

teeth, cells, and tissues are manifestations of the earth. Earth is

considered a stable substance.

 

Water characterizes change and represents the liquid state. Water is

necessary for the survival of all living things. A large part of the

human body is made up of water. Our blood, lymph, and other fluids

move between our cells and through our vessels, bringing energy,

carrying away wastes, regulating temperature, bringing disease

fighters, and carrying hormonal information from one area to

another. Water is a substance without stability.

 

Fire is the power to transform solids into liquids, to gas, and back

again. In other words, it possess power to transform the state of

any substance. Within our bodies, the fire or energy binds the atoms

together. It also converts food to fat (stored energy) and muscle.

Fire transforms food into energy. It creates the impulses of nervous

reactions, our feelings, and even our thought processes. Fire is

considered a form without substance.

 

Air is the gaseous form of matter which is mobile and dynamic.

Within the body, air (oxygen) is the basis for all energy transfer

reactions. It is a key element required for fire to burn. Air is

existence without form.

 

Ether is the space in which everything happens. It is the field that

is simultaneously the source of all matter and the space in which it

exists. Ether is only the distances which separate matter. The chief

characteristic of ether is sound. Here sound represents the entire

spectrum of vibration. "

 

Every substance in our world is made up of the first four

substances. All substances can be classified according to their

predominant element. For example, a mountain is predominantly made

up of earth element. A mountain also contain water, fire, air and

ether. But these elements are very small compared to the earth. So,

its classification is the earth.

 

SYs predominantly use the Earth (shoe-beating/sitting on

ground/lemon and chillies/matka), Water (foot-soaking), Fire

(havans) and Sky (bandhan/string and paper-burning) to clear their

problems. But what really invokes these elements to heal? If just

beating the shoe does wonders then walking in Reeboks and pounding

the pavement while window-shopping would solve (and save time too).

If lemons and chillies cured ills then eating them, especially in

spicy curries and fiery-hot sambals, would be a pleasure. If foot-

soaking cures all then jumping into the ocean would have been a

vacation priority. If bandhans and paper-burning fulfilled desires

then writing an entire essay on palm or paper would have raised it

to the power of 108.

 

The only reason all these elements work due to the consciousness,

attention, desire and mantras. The elements by themselves are void

and useless to heal. A lemon, shoe, chilly, container of salted

water, or piece of paper will not heal or solve problems. But they

do help to focus consciousness, attention, desire and mantras on the

problems. They are thus placebos that help induce our consciousness,

attention, desire and mantras onto what ails us.

 

Balwinder, the reason you were healed so quickly at Belapur is

because of the intensive 10-day focusing of your consciousness,

attention, desire and mantras on the 9-year problem. It was a 24/7

atmosphere conducive to solve a serious problem and the elements

were vital to induce your mind/Sahasrara to remain focused. It would

have been a very difficult task otherwise as the formless would not

have induced the necessary confidence. The elements had to be used.

 

After leaving you slowly learnt to use only your consciousness,

attention, desire and mantras, and discarded all the elements. You

are better now and need no external rituals. In fact i am saying

your vibrations are fantastic because I nearly experienced the Bliss

again due to the vibrations that came out of your email. But, alas,

i started thinking of the indescribable 1994 intoxication and that

effectively confined me to the periphery again. (Calin, i had good

vibrations too from your http://www.geocities.com/calinez website. i

am not saying others do not have bibrations but what i experienced

was spontaneous and thus without any mental pollution of checking

vibrations.)

 

 

SYs think these elements help and have faith in their healing

powers. i am saying that it is the consciousness, attention, desire

and mantras that help and heal. This healing power is only

demonstrable if newcomers have something to focus on – lemons,

chillies, coconuts, shoe-beating, foot-soaking etc. At this early

stage they do not have the spiritual maturity and knowledge to use

just their consciousness, attention, desire and mantras. The

elements help to overcome this disability (and substitute " placebo "

with " crutches " .)

 

The collective problem is that few SYs have learnt from their

experiences and start using their consciousness, attention, desire

and mantras. Since Sahaja Yoga is now officially a subtle system

club there is no shortage of senior SYs teaching and keeping others

at the kindergarten level. (Without the Divine Message what can the

SYs discuss weekly?) The chakra cleansing syndrome is that all-

important daily chow, weekly picnic and lifetime barbeque.

 

Violet made an interesting comment that she is permanently catch-

free. i believe that to be true because those who use their

consciousness, attention, desire and mantras without any external

element to focus can very easily rid themselves of catches. i know

many element dependent SYs do not believe this to be true because

their permanent catches is evidence to dismiss such claims. But what

can be done to convince them? The only way is to explain to them

that elements are like placebos and that it is only their

consciousness, attention, desire and mantras that will heal. A

milder way would be to replace " placebo " with " cructhes " but, given

the prognosis of our collectives, the provocative placebo is

preferred. Just like Buckley's it tastes awful but cures quickly.

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

, " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org wrote:

 

" Violet made an interesting comment that she is permanently catch-free. i

believe that to be true because those who use their consciousness, attention,

desire and mantras without any external element to focus can very easily rid

themselves of catches. "

 

Dear Jagbir and All,

 

It is not that i don't get 'catches' (which register on my subtle system), but

they come and go very quickly. i don't have permanent catches originating from

my own subtle sytem, but i do get little catches that come and go. i just want

this distinction to be understood.

 

Every subtle system will register what is to be registered, according to where a

person puts their attention.

 

Let me explain what i believe is the nature of the subtle system, according to

my experience:

 

If i think about a book, thing, or person and i feel a tingle on my finger and

then i take my attention off of that book, thing, or person, that tingle goes

away.

 

That catch/tingle/registration on the subtle system....therefore did not stick

on to my subtle system. In other words, it came and went very quickly. That is

what i mean by being 'catch-free'. Nothing sticks on. It just goes through

surrendered attention, that's all.

 

Every healthy subtle system will register 'catches', because that is what an

enlightened subtle system is supposed to do....is to register and give us

knowledge. It even warns us of possible danger. That is its job.

 

But it is up to us whether any potential danger is going to come and stick on to

our subtle system as a permanent catch, or whether through our enlightened

attention all these things just come and go automatically, through an

efficiently working subtle sytem.

 

i hope it is clear what i am trying to explain.

 

with love and best wishes,

 

Violet

 

 

> , Balwinder Mann

> <balwinderdr@> wrote:

> >

> > IMHO it is quite obvious that Shree Mataji is talking about

using

> > the elements and meditation to correct the chakras. One of the

> > elements is the ocean which is equivalent to salt water. I spent

9

> > yrs without vibrations (although everyone around me could feel

> > that i had vibrations) and a 10 day stay at Belapur corrected

> > that - lots of footsoaking, sitting on Mother Earth, ice pack

and

> > candle treatment. To call it placebo is IMHO is unfair and also

> > unproven. No one can say that a treatment works or is a placebo

> > unless a rigid study is done - in Western medicine.

> >

> > I stopped doing all the treatments of Belapur within weeks of

> > checking out from it and have only been meditating twice daily

> > with complete dedication and faith almost without fail. The

> > vibrations are great(better than when i left Belapur) and am

> > really at peace but would never say that the treatment had a

> > placebo effect and thus indirectly mean that they of not much

> > use. I needed them at that juncture but right now meditation is

> > sufficient despite my job of meeting people who are sick at work.

> >

>

>

> Dear Balwinder and All,

>

> Perhaps placebo is a provocative word to use on spiritual issues

but

> if one considers the necessity of describing the obsession of Sys,

> it is quite justified. i feel that it is the only word that may

> induce common sense and balance in our collectives ...........

but

> please don't hold your breath. It will take time for this scared

cow

> of SY treatments to lose its 'divine status' and cease to be

> worshipped.

>

> " Ayurveda believes that everything in this universe is made up of

> five great elements or building blocks. These are earth, water,

> fire, air, and ether.

>

> Earth represents the solid state of matter. It manifests

stability,

> permanence, and rigidity. In our body, the parts such as bones,

> teeth, cells, and tissues are manifestations of the earth. Earth

is

> considered a stable substance.

>

> Water characterizes change and represents the liquid state. Water

is

> necessary for the survival of all living things. A large part of

the

> human body is made up of water. Our blood, lymph, and other fluids

> move between our cells and through our vessels, bringing energy,

> carrying away wastes, regulating temperature, bringing disease

> fighters, and carrying hormonal information from one area to

> another. Water is a substance without stability.

>

> Fire is the power to transform solids into liquids, to gas, and

back

> again. In other words, it possess power to transform the state of

> any substance. Within our bodies, the fire or energy binds the

atoms

> together. It also converts food to fat (stored energy) and muscle.

> Fire transforms food into energy. It creates the impulses of

nervous

> reactions, our feelings, and even our thought processes. Fire is

> considered a form without substance.

>

> Air is the gaseous form of matter which is mobile and dynamic.

> Within the body, air (oxygen) is the basis for all energy transfer

> reactions. It is a key element required for fire to burn. Air is

> existence without form.

>

> Ether is the space in which everything happens. It is the field

that

> is simultaneously the source of all matter and the space in which

it

> exists. Ether is only the distances which separate matter. The

chief

> characteristic of ether is sound. Here sound represents the entire

> spectrum of vibration. "

>

> Every substance in our world is made up of the first four

> substances. All substances can be classified according to their

> predominant element. For example, a mountain is predominantly made

> up of earth element. A mountain also contain water, fire, air and

> ether. But these elements are very small compared to the earth.

So,

> its classification is the earth.

>

> SYs predominantly use the Earth (shoe-beating/sitting on

> ground/lemon and chillies/matka), Water (foot-soaking), Fire

> (havans) and Sky (bandhan/string and paper-burning) to clear their

> problems. But what really invokes these elements to heal? If just

> beating the shoe does wonders then walking in Reeboks and pounding

> the pavement while window-shopping would solve (and save time

too).

> If lemons and chillies cured ills then eating them, especially in

> spicy curries and fiery-hot sambals, would be a pleasure. If foot-

> soaking cures all then jumping into the ocean would have been a

> vacation priority. If bandhans and paper-burning fulfilled desires

> then writing an entire essay on palm or paper would have raised it

> to the power of 108.

>

> The only reason all these elements work due to the consciousness,

> attention, desire and mantras. The elements by themselves are void

> and useless to heal. A lemon, shoe, chilly, container of salted

> water, or piece of paper will not heal or solve problems. But they

> do help to focus consciousness, attention, desire and mantras on

the

> problems. They are thus placebos that help induce our

consciousness,

> attention, desire and mantras onto what ails us.

>

> Balwinder, the reason you were healed so quickly at Belapur is

> because of the intensive 10-day focusing of your consciousness,

> attention, desire and mantras on the 9-year problem. It was a 24/7

> atmosphere conducive to solve a serious problem and the elements

> were vital to induce your mind/Sahasrara to remain focused. It

would

> have been a very difficult task otherwise as the formless would

not

> have induced the necessary confidence. The elements had to be used.

>

> After leaving you slowly learnt to use only your consciousness,

> attention, desire and mantras, and discarded all the elements. You

> are better now and need no external rituals. In fact i am saying

> your vibrations are fantastic because I nearly experienced the

Bliss

> again due to the vibrations that came out of your email. But,

alas,

> i started thinking of the indescribable 1994 intoxication and that

> effectively confined me to the periphery again. (Calin, i had good

> vibrations too from your http://www.geocities.com/calinez website.

i

> am not saying others do not have bibrations but what i experienced

> was spontaneous and thus without any mental pollution of checking

> vibrations.)

>

>

> SYs think these elements help and have faith in their healing

> powers. i am saying that it is the consciousness, attention,

desire

> and mantras that help and heal. This healing power is only

> demonstrable if newcomers have something to focus on – lemons,

> chillies, coconuts, shoe-beating, foot-soaking etc. At this early

> stage they do not have the spiritual maturity and knowledge to use

> just their consciousness, attention, desire and mantras. The

> elements help to overcome this disability (and

substitute " placebo "

> with " crutches " .)

>

> The collective problem is that few SYs have learnt from their

> experiences and start using their consciousness, attention, desire

> and mantras. Since Sahaja Yoga is now officially a subtle system

> club there is no shortage of senior SYs teaching and keeping

others

> at the kindergarten level. (Without the Divine Message what can

the

> SYs discuss weekly?) The chakra cleansing syndrome is that all-

> important daily chow, weekly picnic and lifetime barbeque.

>

> Violet made an interesting comment that she is permanently catch-

> free. i believe that to be true because those who use their

> consciousness, attention, desire and mantras without any external

> element to focus can very easily rid themselves of catches. i know

> many element dependent SYs do not believe this to be true because

> their permanent catches is evidence to dismiss such claims. But

what

> can be done to convince them? The only way is to explain to them

> that elements are like placebos and that it is only their

> consciousness, attention, desire and mantras that will heal. A

> milder way would be to replace " placebo " with " cructhes " but,

given

> the prognosis of our collectives, the provocative placebo is

> preferred. Just like Buckley's it tastes awful but cures quickly.

>

> jagbir

>

[Guest guest]

, Calin Martin

<calinez wrote:

>

> Dear all

> i also heard Shri Mataji saying that we should not

> take everything what She says for granted. She emphasised

> many times we should carrefully analyse and use our

> discretion. Maybe sometimes She wants to check how far

> we are, how much improved our understanding is, our

> awerness. When a teacher wants to know if the pupils

> understood the lesson, he may try to play a bit with

> the students and ask tricky questions.

> regards

> calin

>

> visit my web-page :

> http://www.geocities.com/calinez

>

 

" A Sahaja Yogi must have discretion if his Vishuddhi is all right.

You should understand that what I'm saying is to be used discreetly,

not blindly, so you can understand. "

 

Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

>

> _________

> Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter now.

http://www..co.uk/blackberry

>

[Guest guest]

hi all,

sometime back, i have heard in Shri Mataji speech

(Audio Casette) in which Mataji insisted to do foot

soaking daily (atleast before sleeping).. not only

that She also state that SHE HERSELF is doing foot

soaking for the sake of SYogis.

I was not unable to understand this quite clearly... I

am searching for that Caseette ... and soon i will

upload the audio file... for group.....

 

Jai Shri Mataji.

-Ajay.

 

 

 

--- jagbir singh <adishakti_org wrote:

 

> , Calin

> Martin

> <calinez wrote:

> >

> > Dear all

> > i also heard Shri Mataji saying that we should

> not

> > take everything what She says for granted. She

> emphasised

> > many times we should carrefully analyse and use

> our

> > discretion. Maybe sometimes She wants to check how

> far

> > we are, how much improved our understanding is,

> our

> > awerness. When a teacher wants to know if the

> pupils

> > understood the lesson, he may try to play a bit

> with

> > the students and ask tricky questions.

> > regards

> > calin

> >

> > visit my web-page :

> > http://www.geocities.com/calinez

> >

>

> " A Sahaja Yogi must have discretion if his Vishuddhi

> is all right.

> You should understand that what I'm saying is to be

> used discreetly,

> not blindly, so you can understand. "

>

> Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

> >

> >

>

_________

>

> > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter

> now.

> http://www..co.uk/blackberry

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Ajay,

 

There was a time and era decades ago when Shri Mataji had to use all

the means to establsih SYs. We have come a long way from hence.

Today, just by sitting in a collective, you can cleared. That was

not possible when She started Sahaja Yoga.

 

i have heard doctors telling their patients, " Make sure you take the

medicine every day. " The vast majority understand that and DO NOT

take medication the rest of their lives. If we humans had subtle

system physicians like Shri Mataji then their advise to " footsoak

every day " would have meant " till the problem is solved. "

 

Unfortunately that is not the case as SYs want to take this

medication for the rest of our lives. They insist in performing this

ritual forever despite Shri Mataji telling them that " A Sahaja Yogi

must have discretion if his Vishuddhi is all right. You should

understand that what I'm saying is to be used discreetly, not

blindly, so you can understand. "

 

So work on the Vishuddhi till common sense prevails. Till that

chakra is alright sound advise, even from Shri Mataji, will not

prevail. So it will be pointless arguing anymore.

 

jagbir

 

 

, Ajay Agarwal

<ajay_msh wrote:

>

> hi all,

> sometime back, i have heard in Shri Mataji speech

> (Audio Casette) in which Mataji insisted to do foot

> soaking daily (atleast before sleeping).. not only

> that She also state that SHE HERSELF is doing foot

> soaking for the sake of SYogis.

> I was not unable to understand this quite clearly... I

> am searching for that Caseette ... and soon i will

> upload the audio file... for group.....

>

> Jai Shri Mataji.

> -Ajay.

>

>

>

> --- jagbir singh <adishakti_org wrote:

>

> > , Calin

> > Martin

> > <calinez@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear all

> > > i also heard Shri Mataji saying that we should

> > not take everything what She says for granted. She

> > emphasised many times we should carrefully analyse and use

> > our discretion. Maybe sometimes She wants to check how

> > far we are, how much improved our understanding is,

> > our awerness. When a teacher wants to know if the

> > pupils understood the lesson, he may try to play a bit

> > with the students and ask tricky questions.

> > > regards

> > > calin

> > >

> > > visit my web-page :

> > > http://www.geocities.com/calinez

> > >

> >

> > " A Sahaja Yogi must have discretion if his Vishuddhi

> > is all right.

> > You should understand that what I'm saying is to be

> > used discreetly,

> > not blindly, so you can understand. "

> >

> > Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

> > >

> > >

> >

> _________

> >

> > > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter

> > now.

> > http://www..co.uk/blackberry

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Jagbir, Ajay, and All,

 

What is the nature of the energizing power of the elements of nature, such as

water, earth, air, fire, and ether? It is of the nature of kundalini energy.

 

This kundalini energy can be applied by use of the elements from the outside-in,

and this is how most people first learn to harness/learn to work with this

kundalini energy. For example, this kundalini energy manifests itself as the

cleansing energy of the water and the suction power of the salt, but it all

comes from kundalini.

 

And when we have harnessed/learned to use our enlightened attention and our

kundalini energy is finally flowing without major obstructions, we find that we

have the ability to direct the kundalini energy wherever we need Her to clear

our psychosomatic centres.

 

So, its the same kundalini energy whether applied from without-in or from

within-out.

 

The idea is to have the kundalini energy flowing freely from

within-out. This kundalini energy is also the " Living Water " that Jesus spoke

about, and it takes care of all our problems. That is because She is the

Primordial Living Force of the Universe.

 

i think that Shri Mataji did insist that the kundalini energy flowing from

within-out should be a daily ritual that should last all day long.

 

love and best wishes,

 

Violet

 

 

, " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org wrote:

>

> Dear Ajay,

>

> There was a time and era decades ago when Shri Mataji had to use

all

> the means to establsih SYs. We have come a long way from hence.

> Today, just by sitting in a collective, you can cleared. That was

> not possible when She started Sahaja Yoga.

>

> i have heard doctors telling their patients, " Make sure you take

the

> medicine every day. " The vast majority understand that and DO NOT

> take medication the rest of their lives. If we humans had subtle

> system physicians like Shri Mataji then their advise to " footsoak

> every day " would have meant " till the problem is solved. "

>

> Unfortunately that is not the case as SYs want to take this

> medication for the rest of our lives. They insist in performing

this

> ritual forever despite Shri Mataji telling them that " A Sahaja

Yogi

> must have discretion if his Vishuddhi is all right. You should

> understand that what I'm saying is to be used discreetly, not

> blindly, so you can understand. "

>

> So work on the Vishuddhi till common sense prevails. Till that

> chakra is alright sound advise, even from Shri Mataji, will not

> prevail. So it will be pointless arguing anymore.

>

> jagbir

>

>

> , Ajay Agarwal

> <ajay_msh@> wrote:

> >

> > hi all,

> > sometime back, i have heard in Shri Mataji speech

> > (Audio Casette) in which Mataji insisted to do foot

> > soaking daily (atleast before sleeping).. not only

> > that She also state that SHE HERSELF is doing foot

> > soaking for the sake of SYogis.

> > I was not unable to understand this quite clearly... I

> > am searching for that Caseette ... and soon i will

> > upload the audio file... for group.....

> >

> > Jai Shri Mataji.

> > -Ajay.

> >

> >

> >

> > --- jagbir singh <adishakti_org@> wrote:

> >

> > > , Calin

> > > Martin

> > > <calinez@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear all

> > > > i also heard Shri Mataji saying that we should

> > > not take everything what She says for granted. She

> > > emphasised many times we should carrefully analyse and use

> > > our discretion. Maybe sometimes She wants to check how

> > > far we are, how much improved our understanding is,

> > > our awerness. When a teacher wants to know if the

> > > pupils understood the lesson, he may try to play a bit

> > > with the students and ask tricky questions.

> > > > regards

> > > > calin

> > > >

> > > > visit my web-page :

> > > > http://www.geocities.com/calinez

> > > >

> > >

> > > " A Sahaja Yogi must have discretion if his Vishuddhi

> > > is all right.

> > > You should understand that what I'm saying is to be

> > > used discreetly,

> > > not blindly, so you can understand. "

> > >

> > > Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > _________

> > >

> > > > Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with . Enter

> > > now.

> > > http://www..co.uk/blackberry

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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[Guest guest]

, " chiranjeevikumars "

<chiranjeevikumars wrote:

 

" The elements earth, water, fire, air and ether are just elements, they belong

to the subtle body we are made of. The kundalini does not belong to that, but to

our spiritual body. "

 

 

Dear Chiran,

 

Thank you for your words of wisdom. i agree that in our subtle body, these

elements are just elements and not the kundalini itself. i was actually

referring to these elements as they occur in Nature, rather than as they occur

in the elemental makeup of the human body.

 

Since i have learned and understood that earth, is not just earth as in 'soil',

but is the Mother Earth as in 'Shri Bhoomi Devi', i have believed that Her

essence is in all these elements of Nature, such as gravity, which i believe is

a manifestation of the coiled energy, and the ether, which is a form of coiled

energy enabling communication and connection, and so forth.

 

i am sure i have heard Shri Mataji say that the force of gravity is kundalini

energy, and when we sit on the Earth, for example, it is this kundalini energy

within the Earth in the form of gravity that will 'suck' or absorb any negative

rubbish of our subtle system. It is also this 'gravity' that keeps us on the

Earth, close to the bosom/heart of Shri Bhoomi Devi. Some of the most beautiful

meditations can be had when sitting on the Earth.

 

i have also learned in Sahaja Yoga, that the Primordial Power is in everything

that is created, and is the Primordial Power not the very power of coiled

energy, called 'kundalini'?

 

It says in Ganesha Atharva Sheersha that:

 

" All the world has originated from You and it is sustained by You; it ends in

You and You manifest as the world. You are the earth, water, air and sky. "

(Sahaja Yoga Mantra Book)

 

When it says in the Ganesha Atharva Sheersha that " You are the earth, water, air

and sky " , i can only take that to mean that Her Whole Essence is in the earth,

water, air and sky. To me, Her Whole Essence includes Kundalini Energy or Power.

 

Violet

 

> , " Violet "

> <violet.tubb@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Jagbir, Ajay, and All,

> >

> > What is the nature of the energizing power of the elements of

> nature, such as water, earth, air, fire, and ether? It is of the

> nature of kundalini energy.

>

> Hi Violet

> Jai Shri Mataji!

>

> The elements earth,water,fire,air and ether are just elements,they

> belong to the subtle body we are made of.The kundalini does not

belong

> to that,but to our spiritual body.

> The process of using elements I believe is just a help we give

> kundalini a chance to purify those levels.It helps alot when one is

> stuck on a certain element level,and DOES not have the patience for

> Mother Kundalini to purify it.I talk about the beginners now.

> Maybe people should have more faith and patience,and learn from

other

> yogis that Mother Kundalini will purify them,if they'd give her a

> chance.Surely they won't have with them a bowl of salted water all

the

> time?..but for sure they could raise kundalini and pray to Mother

to

> purify them,anywhere they are.Even in a subway train,while they are

> going to work in the morning.

>

> > This kundalini energy can be applied by use of the elements from

the

> outside-in, and this is how most people first learn to

harness/learn

> to work with this kundalini energy. For example, this kundalini

energy

> manifests itself as the cleansing energy of the water and the

suction

> power of the salt, but it all comes from kundalini.

>

> Again,it does not.Kundalini energy has nothing to do with the

elements

> we are made of.Is has to do with the spiritual body.Salt is used as

> the earth element,not for suction.What am I saying is that using

the

> elements every now and then,helps the kundalini process in those

> chakras levels,if those are really stuck.Like in the case of

> Dr.Balwinder I think.

>

> > And when we have harnessed/learned to use our enlightened

attention

> and our kundalini energy is finally flowing without major

> obstructions, we find that we have the ability to direct the

kundalini

> energy wherever we need Her to clear our psychosomatic centres.

> >

> > So, its the same kundalini energy whether applied from without-

in or

> from within-out.

>

> This is the idea,Violet.The Shakti indeed can be directed by

attention

> only.

>

> > The idea is to have the kundalini energy flowing freely from

> > within-out. This kundalini energy is also the " Living Water " that

> Jesus spoke about, and it takes care of all our problems. That is

> because She is the Primordial Living Force of the Universe.

>

> From within-out,and then from without-in the rain will poor in the

> sahasrara,then on the left or right channels.This is the union of

the

> spirit within with the universal spirit.

> The ,,Living Water,, actually feels like somebody would drop a

bucket

> of water on your head.I am not kidding,Violet.It feels like that.

>

> > i think that Shri Mataji did insist that the kundalini energy

> flowing from within-out should be a daily ritual that should last

all

> day long.

> >

> > love and best wishes,

> >

> > Violet

>

> I agree with you,Violet.

> Jai Shri Mataji!

>

> Chiran

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Chiran,

 

This is a difficult concept for new yogis to understand. The original discussion

was for yogis who still only practice external cleansing rituals as opposed to

internal (Kundalini Clearing) practices.

 

Violet

 

 

, " chiranjeevikumars "

<chiranjeevikumars wrote:

>

>

> , " Violet "

> <violet.tubb@> wrote:

> >

> > --- In

, " chiranjeevikumars "

> > <chiranjeevikumars@> wrote:

> >

> > " The elements earth, water, fire, air and ether are just

elements,

> they belong to the subtle body we are made of. The kundalini does

not

> belong to that, but to our spiritual body. "

> >

> >

> > Dear Chiran,

> >

> > Thank you for your words of wisdom. i agree that in our subtle

body,

> these elements are just elements and not the kundalini itself. i

was

> actually referring to these elements as they occur in Nature,

rather

> than as they occur in the elemental makeup of the human body.

>

> Dear Violet

>

> I have never thought about that,but yes,when I think now I believe

you

> are right.

> You are speaking from the point of view of an old yogi who

understands

> that all exterior manifestations including the elements have their

> origin in the spirit/kundalini.This is an easy concept to

accept,but

> it's hard to be understood for the beginners.I would stick with the

> original definition of the kundalini,as presented by Shri Mataji.

>

> quote:,,The residual energy then settles down in three and a half

> coils in the triangular bone placed at the end of the spinal cord

> (sacrum bone), known as Kundalini.,,

>

> Full text here:

>

> " Everyday we see seeds sprouting, flowers blooming, fruits

ripening,

> but we do not want to think how it happens. There is a power that

does

> this work, it is the all pervading power of Divine Love. Now the

time

> has come to feel this power through the instrument within us. This

> instrument has no use unless it is connected to the mains. We do

not

> know our potential, our beauty, but once this connection with the

> mains is established, we will be surprised at the dynamic results. "

>

> How The Subtle System Is Built. At the outset we have to understand

> that this connection is not mental. Through religion this

connection

> cannot be made because religion also is mental. However, human

> awareness can be developed to a higher dimension through Sahaja

Yoga

> which is not a mental projection. It is a becoming. This is the

last

> step in our evolution. Whatever we have achieved in our evolution

has

> to manifest through our central nervous system.

>

> When the foetus is about 2 to 3 months old in the mother's womb,

> columns of rays of consciousness emitted through the all pervading

> power of Divine Love, pass through the brain to enlighten it. The

> shape of the brain being prism-like, the column of rays falling on

it

> gets refracted into four diverse channels corresponding to the four

> aspects of the nervous system. They are (see the section on Chakras

> and Channels):

>

> * Sympathetic nervous system - right side

> * Sympathetic nervous system - left side

> * Parasympathetic nervous system

> * Central nervous system

>

> The subtle energy enters through the centers in the brain and

> precipitates on its way to six more centers called chakras. The

> residual energy then settles down in three and a half coils in the

> triangular bone placed at the end of the spinal cord (sacrum bone),

> known as Kundalini. The fundamental of this living force is

> self-organization, self-regeneration and ascent. Through

> self-organization it sustains and protects. Self-regeneration is

its

> innate ability to renew, heal, balance and recycle. Ascent is its

> capacity to transcend the mind and myth and attain collective

> consciousness. "

> > Since i have learned and understood that earth, is not just

earth as

> in 'soil', but is the Mother Earth as in 'Shri Bhoomi Devi', i have

> believed that Her essence is in all these elements of Nature, such

as

> gravity, which i believe is a manifestation of the coiled energy,

and

> the ether, which is a form of coiled energy enabling communication

and

> connection, and so forth.

> Jai Shri Mataji!

> Love and best wishes,

>

> Chiran

>

> > i am sure i have heard Shri Mataji say that the force of gravity

is

> kundalini energy, and when we sit on the Earth, for example, it is

> this kundalini energy within the Earth in the form of gravity that

> will 'suck' or absorb any negative rubbish of our subtle system.

It is

> also this 'gravity' that keeps us on the Earth, close to the

> bosom/heart of Shri Bhoomi Devi. Some of the most beautiful

> meditations can be had when sitting on the Earth.

> >

> > i have also learned in Sahaja Yoga, that the Primordial Power is

in

> everything that is created, and is the Primordial Power not the

very

> power of coiled energy, called 'kundalini'?

> >

> > It says in Ganesha Atharva Sheersha that:

> >

> > " All the world has originated from You and it is sustained by

You;

> it ends in You and You manifest as the world. You are the earth,

> water, air and sky. " (Sahaja Yoga Mantra Book)

> >

> > When it says in the Ganesha Atharva Sheersha that " You are the

> earth, water, air and sky " , i can only take that to mean that Her

> Whole Essence is in the earth, water, air and sky. To me, Her Whole

> Essence includes Kundalini Energy or Power.

> >

> > Violet

> >

> > > , " Violet "

> > > <violet.tubb@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Jagbir, Ajay, and All,

> > > >

> > > > What is the nature of the energizing power of the elements of

> > > nature, such as water, earth, air, fire, and ether? It is of

the

> > > nature of kundalini energy.

> > >

> > > Hi Violet

> > > Jai Shri Mataji!

> > >

> > > The elements earth,water,fire,air and ether are just

elements,they

> > > belong to the subtle body we are made of.The kundalini does

not

> > belong

> > > to that,but to our spiritual body.

> > > The process of using elements I believe is just a help we give

> > > kundalini a chance to purify those levels.It helps alot when

one is

> > > stuck on a certain element level,and DOES not have the

patience for

> > > Mother Kundalini to purify it.I talk about the beginners now.

> > > Maybe people should have more faith and patience,and learn

from

> > other

> > > yogis that Mother Kundalini will purify them,if they'd give

her a

> > > chance.Surely they won't have with them a bowl of salted water

all

> > the

> > > time?..but for sure they could raise kundalini and pray to

Mother

> > to

> > > purify them,anywhere they are.Even in a subway train,while

they are

> > > going to work in the morning.

> > >

> > > > This kundalini energy can be applied by use of the elements

from

> > the

> > > outside-in, and this is how most people first learn to

> > harness/learn

> > > to work with this kundalini energy. For example, this

kundalini

> > energy

> > > manifests itself as the cleansing energy of the water and the

> > suction

> > > power of the salt, but it all comes from kundalini.

> > >

> > > Again,it does not.Kundalini energy has nothing to do with the

> > elements

> > > we are made of.Is has to do with the spiritual body.Salt is

used as

> > > the earth element,not for suction.What am I saying is that

using

> > the

> > > elements every now and then,helps the kundalini process in

those

> > > chakras levels,if those are really stuck.Like in the case of

> > > Dr.Balwinder I think.

> > >

> > > > And when we have harnessed/learned to use our enlightened

> > attention

> > > and our kundalini energy is finally flowing without major

> > > obstructions, we find that we have the ability to direct the

> > kundalini

> > > energy wherever we need Her to clear our psychosomatic

centres.

> > > >

> > > > So, its the same kundalini energy whether applied from

without-

> > in or

> > > from within-out.

> > >

> > > This is the idea,Violet.The Shakti indeed can be directed by

> > attention

> > > only.

> > >

> > > > The idea is to have the kundalini energy flowing freely from

> > > > within-out. This kundalini energy is also the " Living Water "

that

> > > Jesus spoke about, and it takes care of all our problems. That

is

> > > because She is the Primordial Living Force of the Universe.

> > >

> > > From within-out,and then from without-in the rain will poor in

the

> > > sahasrara,then on the left or right channels.This is the union

of

> > the

> > > spirit within with the universal spirit.

> > > The ,,Living Water,, actually feels like somebody would drop a

> > bucket

> > > of water on your head.I am not kidding,Violet.It feels like

that.

> > >

> > > > i think that Shri Mataji did insist that the kundalini energy

> > > flowing from within-out should be a daily ritual that should

last

> > all

> > > day long.

> > > >

> > > > love and best wishes,

> > > >

> > > > Violet

> > >

> > > I agree with you,Violet.

> > > Jai Shri Mataji!

> > >

> > > Chiran

> > >

> >

>