Guest guest Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Hi All, My life since last 10 days had changed dramatically ( I joined this group 10days back). It has been wonderful experience in the forum ...discussing on various subjects and giving opinions etc. But i must admit that some " complicated doubts " have started arising in my mind now..specially after reading so much on adishakti.org .. I look forward to this group to make me stable by satisfying my doubts/questions. After reading lot of articles on Kingdom of GOD (MEETING HIS MESSENGERS) , now i always ( you can say 24hrs - sleeping hrs) think of Shri Mataji and The Kingdom of God. I wander whether i in this life would be able to enjoy The Kingdom of God.. I don't know why and how and when i started thinking about Shri Mataji non-stop and always think that She is watching me ..my actions and my words... I am afraid talking to my friends " about girls " that we used to talk freely in tea time.. I have started thinking that whether I am a Sahajyogi.. becuase i have never gone thru such wonderful exp..that group shares here. Infact , my vibrations are fluctuating vibrations (on-off type). Sometime they keep on coming...and sometime i dont feel any vibration for 4 -5 days or even 1 week.? Previously i have never got such type of questions in my mind !. One advantage that i have got is that initially if i missed foot soaking for 1 -2 day..i would guilty..now i think i should not feel that guilty consious feeling ...as it is not compulsion to do foot soaking daily. That's a nice thing. Lastly, one important matter ...i would like the input from group on this. Last december( 2005) when I went to PUNE for Christmas Puja. I have met many SY there. Our topic of discussion slowly ..slowly came to the GOD's and their pictures ( that we normally have in our home). Most of SY's were of the opinion that these pictures does not resemble the true GOD..they are merely the fantastic imagination of painters /artist/ historician etc. and this has been coming on since decades and decades..and .....so on. They were of the opinion that nobody has seen Shri Ganesha ( So how can anyone be sure that whether he has one teeth, bigtrunk etc.) Same with all other GODS ( Shri Shiva etc..) ..the point was somebody in the past has imagined the GOD and GODESSES as like this and...since then it is coming as it is. I saw some logical point in this and after coming from Pune , i discussed and convinced my wife ( Non - SY) about the same.. and i removed the pictures of GOD's from my home. Even though my wife was not fully convinced. Now, after reading ..Kingdom of GOD (MEETING HIS MESSENGERS)... I found the description of GOD's to be the same ( as in pictures in my home)... I feel i have done something wrong...in my hurriedness.. What shall i do now ? Shall i talk to my wife again and get the new pictures from market? or what? i am confused. Pls suggest. Jai Shri Mataji. - Ajay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Ajay, First of all, glad you could Join us. As i have found over the past year and a half(even though i have been only doing sy for a few months) there are many knowledgable yogis here and many if not almost all you questions can be answered or given insight to in order to help you understand the answers that may be presenting themselves to you in meditation and in daily life. You definatly have found a well spring of caring people with much experience in the difficulties of Sy, and much info on talks by Shri Mataji. Enjoy it all and never be afriad or hesitant to speak your mind and ask questions; thats what we are here for. In terms of weather or not you are a Sy due to your experiences, or lack there of, that has nothing to do with being a SY or i should say- weather or not you are one. Justb ecause you have not had experiences like the ones you have read, doesn't mean you are not reall a Sy or anything of the sort. Each person has different experiences that are bestowed upon people by mother and mother alone, and it is up to her how these blessing manifest in peoples lives, to what extent, etc. Each person is different with different needs, and mother knows us all better then anyone, so she knows how to instill faith in us on an individual basis and cleanse us of our unique problems etc without any pain at all. Violet has said " do not seek the blessing or the gifts, but seek the one who gives the gifts only " that being the Adi Shakti within, the kundalini, whos physical manifestation is Shri Mataji Nirmala devi. So just meditate, talk to Mother as you would talk to your own mother, of course with much respect, but being very open, honest and above all yourself, and everything will work out the way it should work out. Don't seek the gifts, for they will come as you begin to develop the relationship with the one who gives the very gifts you are searching for- Adi Shakti. As far as vibrations are concerned, i cannot comment other then the fact that what matters most is that you feel the cool breeze and meditate. Even if you do not feel it all the time, it is there and it is not going anywhere. A yogi friend of mine told me not to long ago that weather you feel the vibrations or not, weather you feel sick physically or have a chattering mind and can't meditate, everything is for our benevolence. Mother has worked it out and is working it out for us, so we should just be strong, bare it, meditate always, introspect, and let mother take care of the rest. Eventually all that is for you to have will be yours, but on mothers time not ours. Take it easy and just try to enjoy. I will leave you with an e-mail i wrote not too long ago on this forum in which i came to a few realizations, as i ahave been struggling terribly with sahaja yoga since i started and still am, but finding the ight path within sahaja yoga, for ome who can't find it, is a good way to start(in my case). Kyyan =========================================== Dear all, i have been asked to post this e-mail i sent to Violet not too long ago, as it may help any others who are struggling with Sy, especially in the begining. Hope you all find it useful. Kyyan ==================================================== I have to say that things have been getting interesting in a very subtle way lately. I sort of hit a rough spot over the holidays where I didn't meditate for a few days to a week and kind of became frustrated/disillusioned to the point where I just said (I need a break from all this for a week or whatever and went back to some of my old destructive, habits). Over that time (up to today) just thinking of things and trying to see things for what they are its like I'm beginning to understand and see how I approached Sy completely wrong and with a completely wrong mind set. I went in there expecting short term physical cures, amazing experiences, etc, like all the ones I have read about. When I didn't get much of anything at all I began to get worried that all my searching and " belief " was again invested into something that doesn't work, despite the evidence. I began to ask others to clear me out, began ritualistice use of treatments with soo much doubt that they would have never worked anyways. I have come to realize looking back on the past 2 and a half months that all I have been doing and how I approached SY is exactly why I really haven't moved one square inch. I am seeing now, quite subtly I might add, that I went in there with all this built up belief in Shri Mataji, SY and everything else without every really experiencing it on my own. I guess you would call it " blind faith " coupled with hope that had me believing and making up small occurrences to be these charismatic events inside my own head, when in fact none of what I experienced was even remotely flashy, amazing or noticeable at all. I wanted so bad for my blind beliefs to be validated that I would maybe auto suggest occurrences hoping they were truly those experiences, or dwell on them in my head and imagine them to be something they were not. Like for example, I would get myself believing that if I suddenly had to go to the washroom (barely) that it was my mooldhara showing progress, or if I had shortness of breath from anxiety that my heart was clearing out by breathing properly, etc. Basically I was trying to put mystical reasons behind events that warranted no mystical explanation. It's like after all of that effort I can look back and see that none of what I had myself believing and none of what I " experienced " was anything more then a self made delusion that I was making up in an attempt to hold onto what I so badly wanted to believe simply because it made sense. It is like I have been shown that there is no way to know God or self or Shri Mataji or Meditation, or anything else I have read personal accounts of and otherwise, except to experience them by myself. It's like after trying to hold on to all this nonsense hoping any day now that id have an amazing mystical experience that would validate my efforts and " beliefs " , I finally had to give all those beliefs up completely and start over in a completely relaxed, patient, take it one day at a time with no expectations attitude. More importantly I had to stop believing (without feeling guilty), and start allowing myself time to experience things for myself, instead of asking for third party validation or aspiring for such happenings. I had to get to rock bottom, forced into letting go of my hopes, beliefs and supports of a similar nature, accept the fact that nothing has happened as of yet and in reality I have no true proof or personal feeling that Shri Mataji is " the divine mother " through experience, and only by letting go of those things and simply meditating with the desire to know and hope to advance instead of the desire to have and hope to receive, could I then truly begin to meditate and begin the journey. I began to notice that most of the people on this forum came to Sy with simply the desire to know if what has been said is true and not to heal themselves of physical problems, or to have mystical experiences, but a pure desire and a day by day, no rush, relaxed, consistent attitude towards meditation. Comparing them to me has shown me the huge difference in what I was doing and what I presume they are doing. It's like " mother " (as if I can say that with true belief yet) was letting me run around doing this and that, acting and pretending I felt what others felt and backed that up by what I know via reading the website until I got to the point where I broke myself down to nothing, collapsed my " house of cards " if you will, and had to come back to the start fresh, with no expectations. It seems like it was a necessary step, perhaps even a breaking of certain conditionings that was so subtle that I didn't realize what was happening until I had a chance to reflect back at what I have been doing since I began. I am in no way fully understanding of this, but this little bit of insight that feels uniquely different from " thinking " this is something coming from outside my own mind (meaning it just feels right and I don't feel any doubts at all when I think of it) has me relaxed, excited to continue to meditate, and no longer worried about having this and that happen; as I feel now that whatever happens - happens and if I just meditate and take the learning curve slow, with no real detriment to any perceived timeline hanging over my head, all will work itself out. Maybe this is introspecting I don't know, but all I have said above seems so right to me when I think about it and it makes me happy and excited to see what other things about myself, both good and bad, can be found out and lovingly guided into correction; It really feels, well, full of love. Most of the last two paragraphs I didn't intend to write, but the words just seemed to be welling up from inside along with the feelings. Anyways, I just wanted to share all this with someone. Kyyan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 Dear Kyyan, i have just read your letter again at the bottom of the page, and i am amazed at your spiritual growth, Kyyan, once you had the basic realization that you had to start from Ground Zero. In other words, you had to really wipe the slate clean of any previous assumptions and misconceptions and beliefs and be prepared to meditate and grow spiritually without any predetermined expectation of what should happen. In my own experience, that is where i have found i had to start from, and that was from 'scratch'. The main thing that we can expect to happen is to grow spiritually and to become more of who we really are, which is the Spirit. That in fact, is the greatest thing that can happen to us and it is the greatest joy that lasts in life and stays with us. It is much greater for us than any individual mystical experience ever can be! Any spiritual-mystical experiences usually only come through being the Spirit, i believe. And Being the Spirit is more like the 'meat and potatoes' or the 'rice and curry', whereas having mystical experiences is more like the dessert that is a special 'treat' for a special reason. The most lasting happiness and joy, however, comes from Becoming and Being the Spirit, rather than the mystical experience, which is only a temporary experience, although it may have a lasting impact on a person's life and understanding, so is also important, when given. If i had to choose between the two, though, i would choose Becoming or Being the Spirit, because that is like building one's spiritual house upon a Spiritual Rock that will stand, no matter what 'winds' and 'rain' may come. Also...learning what surrender is and how to do it, is one of the great lessons to be learned in Sahaja Yoga. It is an exciting path to tread, and many amazing things will happen through that. Each person has to try it for themselves and no one can do that for you. Some of these things, may seem very mundane, as compared to having mystical experiences, but when a person tries what seems to be very mundane things like surrendering, they may find that very interesting experiences happen. They will probably start to develop such spiritual qualities as spiritual insight, spiritual inspiration, spiritual intuition, spiritual wisdom and spiritual knowledge. i would say that the basis of mystical experiences comes from the Higher Developed Spiritual Qualites within a person, rather than them just seemingly coming from 'out of the blue'. i hope this makes sense, Kyyan. love and best wishes, Violet - In , " v_koa " <v_koa wrote: > > Ajay, > > First of all, glad you could Join us. As i have found over the past > year and a half(even though i have been only doing sy for a few > months) there are many knowledgable yogis here and many if not > almost all you questions can be answered or given insight to in > order to help you understand the answers that may be presenting > themselves to you in meditation and in daily life. You definatly > have found a well spring of caring people with much experience in > the difficulties of Sy, and much info on talks by Shri Mataji. Enjoy > it all and never be afriad or hesitant to speak your mind and ask > questions; thats what we are here for. > > In terms of weather or not you are a Sy due to your experiences, or > lack there of, that has nothing to do with being a SY or i should > say- weather or not you are one. Justb ecause you have not had > experiences like the ones you have read, doesn't mean you are not > reall a Sy or anything of the sort. Each person has different > experiences that are bestowed upon people by mother and mother > alone, and it is up to her how these blessing manifest in peoples > lives, to what extent, etc. Each person is different with different > needs, and mother knows us all better then anyone, so she knows how > to instill faith in us on an individual basis and cleanse us of our > unique problems etc without any pain at all. Violet has said " do not > seek the blessing or the gifts, but seek the one who gives the gifts > only " that being the Adi Shakti within, the kundalini, whos physical > manifestation is Shri Mataji Nirmala devi. So just meditate, talk to > Mother as you would talk to your own mother, of course with much > respect, but being very open, honest and above all yourself, and > everything will work out the way it should work out. Don't seek the > gifts, for they will come as you begin to develop the relationship > with the one who gives the very gifts you are searching for- Adi > Shakti. > > As far as vibrations are concerned, i cannot comment other then the > fact that what matters most is that you feel the cool breeze and > meditate. Even if you do not feel it all the time, it is there and > it is not going anywhere. A yogi friend of mine told me not to long > ago that weather you feel the vibrations or not, weather you feel > sick physically or have a chattering mind and can't meditate, > everything is for our benevolence. Mother has worked it out and is > working it out for us, so we should just be strong, bare it, > meditate always, introspect, and let mother take care of the rest. > Eventually all that is for you to have will be yours, but on mothers > time not ours. Take it easy and just try to enjoy. > I will leave you with an e-mail i wrote not too long ago on this > forum in which i came to a few realizations, as i ahave been > struggling terribly with sahaja yoga since i started and still am, > but finding the ight path within sahaja yoga, for ome who can't find > it, is a good way to start(in my case). > > Kyyan > > =========================================== > Dear all, > > i have been asked to post this e-mail i sent to Violet not too long > ago, as it > may help any others who are struggling with Sy, especially in the > begining. Hope > you all find it useful. > > Kyyan > > ==================================================== > > I have to say that things have been getting interesting in a very > subtle way > lately. > > I sort of hit a rough spot over the holidays where I didn't meditate > for a few > days to a week and kind of became frustrated/disillusioned to the > point where I > just said (I need a break from all this for a week or whatever and > went back to > some of my old destructive, habits). Over that time (up to today) > just thinking > of things and trying to see things for what they are its like I'm > beginning to > understand and see how I approached Sy completely wrong and with a > completely > wrong mind set. > > I went in there expecting short term physical cures, amazing > experiences, etc, > like all the ones I have read about. When I didn't get much of > anything at all I > began to get worried that all my searching and " belief " was again > invested into > something that doesn't work, despite the evidence. I began to ask > others to > clear me out, began ritualistice use of treatments with soo much > doubt that they > would have never worked anyways. I have come to realize looking back > on the past > 2 and a half months that all I have been doing and how I approached > SY is > exactly why I really haven't moved one square inch. > > I am seeing now, quite subtly I might add, that I went in there with > all this > built up belief in Shri Mataji, SY and everything else without every > really > experiencing it on my own. I guess you would call it " blind faith " > coupled with > hope that had me believing and making up small occurrences to be > these > charismatic events inside my own head, when in fact none of what I > experienced > was even remotely flashy, amazing or noticeable at all. I wanted so > bad for my > blind beliefs to be validated that I would maybe auto suggest > occurrences hoping > they were truly those experiences, or dwell on them in my head and > imagine them > to be something they were not. Like for example, I would get myself > believing > that if I suddenly had to go to the washroom (barely) that it was my > mooldhara > showing progress, or if I had shortness of breath from anxiety that > my heart was > clearing out by breathing properly, etc. Basically I was trying to > put mystical > reasons behind events that warranted no mystical explanation. > > It's like after all of that effort I can look back and see that none > of what I > had myself believing and none of what I " experienced " was anything > more then a > self made delusion that I was making up in an attempt to hold onto > what I so > badly wanted to believe simply because it made sense. It is like I > have been > shown that there is no way to know God or self or Shri Mataji or > Meditation, or > anything else I have read personal accounts of and otherwise, except > to > experience them by myself. It's like after trying to hold on to all > this > nonsense hoping any day now that id have an amazing mystical > experience that > would validate my efforts and " beliefs " , I finally had to give all > those beliefs > up completely and start over in a completely relaxed, patient, take > it one day > at a time with no expectations attitude. More importantly I had to > stop > believing (without feeling guilty), and start allowing myself time > to > experience things for myself, instead of asking for third party > validation or > aspiring for such happenings. I had to get to rock bottom, forced > into letting > go of my hopes, beliefs and supports of a similar nature, accept the > fact that > nothing has happened as of yet and in reality I have no true proof > or personal > feeling that Shri Mataji is " the divine mother " through experience, > and only by > letting go of those things and simply meditating with the desire to > know and > hope to advance instead of the desire to have and hope to receive, > could I then > truly begin to meditate and begin the journey. > > I began to notice that most of the people on this forum came to Sy > with simply > the desire to know if what has been said is true and not to heal > themselves of > physical problems, or to have mystical experiences, but a pure > desire and a day > by day, no rush, relaxed, consistent attitude towards meditation. > Comparing them > to me has shown me the huge difference in what I was doing and what > I presume > they are doing. It's like " mother " (as if I can say that with true > belief yet) > was letting me run around doing this and that, acting and pretending > I felt what > others felt and backed that up by what I know via reading the > website until I > got to the point where I broke myself down to nothing, collapsed > my " house of > cards " if you will, and had to come back to the start fresh, with no > expectations. It seems like it was a necessary step, perhaps even a > breaking of > certain conditionings that was so subtle that I didn't realize what > was > happening until I had a chance to reflect back at what I have been > doing since I > began. > > I am in no way fully understanding of this, but this little bit of > insight that > feels uniquely different from " thinking " this is something coming > from outside > my own mind (meaning it just feels right and I don't feel any doubts > at all when > I think of it) has me relaxed, excited to continue to meditate, and > no longer > worried about having this and that happen; as I feel now that > whatever happens - > happens and if I just meditate and take the learning curve slow, > with no real > detriment to any perceived timeline hanging over my head, all will > work itself > out. Maybe this is introspecting I don't know, but all I have said > above seems > so right to me when I think about it and it makes me happy and > excited to see > what other things about myself, both good and bad, can be found out > and lovingly > guided into correction; It really feels, well, full of love. > > Most of the last two paragraphs I didn't intend to write, but the > words just > seemed to be welling up from inside along with the feelings. > > Anyways, I just wanted to share all this with someone. > > Kyyan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 , Ajay Agarwal <ajay_msh wrote: > > > Hi All, > > My life since last 10 days had changed dramatically ( > I joined this group 10days back). > It has been wonderful experience in the forum > ..discussing on various subjects and giving opinions > etc. But i must admit that some " complicated doubts " > have started arising in my mind now..specially after > reading so much on adishakti.org .. I look forward to > this group to make me stable by satisfying my > doubts/questions. > Dear Ajay, We assure that you will become both spirtually balanced and knowledgeable about Shri Mataji and Her Divine Message. This is the only Sahaja Yoga forum which is open and upfront to the public. Nothing is hidden so that seekers know beforehand who Shri Mataji really is and what is the heart and soul of Her Message. There is no hidden agenda to entice people with a false front of subtle system and stress management. Right off the bat you know that what you are getting into is promised by the holy scriptures. Moreover, there are no leaders/coordinators pulling the strings or exerting control. Here you learn to be your own master by us removing all obstacles and intermediaries. > > After reading lot of articles on Kingdom of GOD > (MEETING HIS MESSENGERS) , now i always ( you can say > 24hrs - sleeping hrs) > think of Shri Mataji and The Kingdom of God. I wander > whether i in this life would be able to enjoy The > Kingdom of God.. I don't know why and how and when i > started thinking about Shri Mataji non-stop and always > think that She is watching me ..my actions and my > words... I am afraid talking to my friends " about > girls " that we used to talk freely in tea time.. > i really cannot say or encourage you to desire these gifts, just as Kyyan has explained. It is up to the Shakti within to grant an audience with Her in the Sahasrara. i personally have no such desires because i have no right to ask this boon when so much has already been granted through Self-realization and return to the spiritual path after decades of material and sensual madness. The Shakti within hears and sees everything. In fact She even knows your most intimate thought or hidden secret. There is absolutely nothing that you can ever hide from Her. And all is recorded by the Kundalini. If in the Afterlife you try and deny anything even the moment you are reading this line can be reproduced 'live' in the Spirit World. i am not making this up because i have experienced all that i am writing. Initially i shocked at how much the Divine knows about each and every human. Shri Mataji within knows all -languages, your past lives, what you are thinking right now, etc. - EVERYTHING! Thus you are advised to be careful because every second is recorded by the Kundalini and kept for all eternity. Take care and refrain from anti-spiritual pursuits. > I have started thinking that whether I am a > Sahajyogi.. because i have never gone thru such > wonderful exp..that group shares here. In fact , my > vibrations are fluctuating vibrations (on-off type). > Sometime they keep on coming...and sometime i dont > feel any vibration for 4 -5 days or even 1 week.? > Previously i have never got such type of questions in > my mind !. > Just meditate and do not worry too much about vibrations because they will not give you moksa. What is important is innocence and a pure heart to attain the thoughtless state. It is easy to talk about vibrations. Try attaining what accelerates spiritual growth and eventual liberation. > One advantage that i have got is that initially if i > missed foot soaking for 1 -2 day..i would guilty..now > i think i should not feel that guilty consious feeling > ..as it is not compulsion to do foot soaking daily. > That's a nice thing. > There a number of reasons i am against rituals and yours is one of them. i implore you to rid yourself of all external crutches and learn to just use your consciousness, attention and desire to solve all problems. Your Mother Kundalini is more than willing to help you provided you abandon lemons and chillies and give Her the respect and honor due. Just surrender all problems to Her. > Lastly, one important matter ...i would like the input > from group on this. > > Last december( 2005) when I went to PUNE for Christmas > Puja. I have met many SY there. Our topic of > discussion slowly ..slowly came to the GOD's and their > pictures ( that we normally have in our home). Most of > SY's were of the opinion that these pictures does not > resemble the true GOD..they are merely the fantastic > imagination of painters /artist/ historician etc. and > this has been coming on since decades and decades..and > ....so on. They were of the opinion that nobody has > seen Shri Ganesha ( So how can anyone be sure that > whether he has one teeth, bigtrunk etc.) Same with all > other GODS ( Shri Shiva etc..) ..the point was > somebody in the past has imagined the GOD and GODESSES > as like this and...since then it is coming as it is. I > saw some logical point in this and after coming from > Pune , i discussed and convinced my wife ( Non - SY) > about the same.. and i removed the pictures of GOD's > from my home. Even though my wife was not fully > convinced. > Now, after reading ..Kingdom of GOD (MEETING HIS > MESSENGERS)... I found the description of GOD's to be > the same ( as in pictures in my home)... I feel i have > done something wrong...in my hurriedness.. > What shall i do now ? Shall i talk to my wife again > and get the new pictures from market? or what? i am > confused. > All the deities/gods exist but Indians have terrible artistic skills compared to orientals. i am sometimes ashamed at the crudeness of their depiction of these Gods and Goddesses. But these deities are not figments of imagination of ancient sages. They are 100% correct is their visions and some have met these Gods and Goddesses. However, sages are not artists and their narration could never do justice to what they saw with their spiritual eyes. According to all my children the Shakti is extremely beautiful and no woman can ever be comparable. But neither they, myself nor anyone else can draw Her (or any other God or Goddess). So any image, no matter even done by the greatest artist, will always lack perfection. So we cannot blame those reproducing these images but definitely Hindus can significantly improve their talents. Truly, i have been taken aback by some terrible portraits. Yes, you may buy new images but do not worship them. Some portraits are sad, even insulting, copies. But why not meditate on the chakras they are sitting on? And don't feel guilty. Perhaps throwing copies away will help you reach new depths within yourself. regards, jagbir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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