Yogi does not want to do treatments for the rest of his life...

[Guest guest]

Shri Adi Shakti Forum

Forum Topic: Sahaj Global Chat

Yogi does not want to do treatments for the rest of his life

Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:06 pm

 

Dear All,

 

I have received an email from a SY (whose name I will keep confidential) and

this yogi expresses great concern that the continual treatments by yogis in his

collective never seem to result in a permanent cure, but seem to be ongoing,

perhaps for the rest of their lives. Here then is an excerpt of this yogi's

message: -

 

" I don't understand why everything is about treatments, treatments, treatments,

I need them so I use them, but I don't want to be 25 years down the road still

foot soaking everyday, and doing matkas and stuff. Ideally I would like to not

do any treatments at all, unless something serious pops up, but simply meditate

using my hands on my chakras, mantras and affirmations only.

 

Every person I talked to at the ashram in Vancouver here, even people who have

come from Columbia and other places to live in the ashram, have been to Belapur

and helped build it etc, are always talking about bhoots in the ashram, bhoots

in their chakras and how they are stiff suffering from nahbi problems, or a bad

swadisthan. I mean what of the miraculous healing of the kundalini in people so

well versed in SY and by all outward appearances very devout and this and that?

 

I mean what it makes all this stuff seem so pointless is if you are forever

plagued with problems of the soul subtle system etc. Every time I talk to people

at the ashram my hope fades because they paint a picture where " you just live

life the best you can, meditate, do treatments and just deal with life as it

happens/hope for the best " ; no different from what an unrealized person would

tell you about life.

 

I mean I see you and Jagbir and others who have been in SY many years less, but

have none of these pesky problems with bhoots or chronic problems, and I hope to

be like you guys one day, but like I said, when I talked to anyone in real time,

those I would expect based on years of meditation to be maybe not perfect in

character, but at least thoughtless and not chronically catching, I'm shown a

painted picture of a future of meditation and puja and havan to remove all these

unseen negativities plaguing people until I die.

 

I don't see that as living heaven on earth and experiencing it; I see that as

cleaning your chakras till you die, at which time because of such clean chakras

you will enter heaven then. I'm not waiting if I can help it.......What is the

difference between them and yogis/yoginis like you. "

 

(name withheld)

 

 

Dear Yogi,

 

It is not necessarily true that I have been in Sahaja Yoga fewer years than many

yogis, since i came to Sahaja Yoga in 1993, which is 13 years ago. However,

having success in Sahaja Yoga (the experience, that is) does not depend on the

number of years that a person attends the organization of Sahaja Yoga, anyway.

Rather, it depends on the Sahaja Yogi's surrender to the Divine Within. (If you

follow the Way that Shri Mataji has shown to achieve the spiritual liberation,

it will happen).

 

The reason everything is about `treatments' is because the leadership have

pretty exclusively focussed on treatments, and they have also generally

neglected to inform that once the kundalini is established and flowing well,

then our enlightened attention and our kundalini become like one, and where our

attention goes, there goes our kundalini too. Then the kundalini/attention

combined automatically clear. i hope more yogis are experiencing this, and if

they are not, i would just say, to surrender, surrender, and surrender

everything, because it will happen.

 

It is absolutely fine if you just use the treatments as you need them. When the

kundalini is flowing OK, you will know it, for your catches will diminish.

However, if you also continually `get mentally involved' in what could be called

a type of `catch consciousness obsession', then it backfires on you, and you

will never improve. The same situation goes for the `bhoot consciousness'. If

your mind is continually on `bhoots', then that is what you will manifest in

your life. If your mind is on the Holy Spirit/Comforter that Jesus spoke about,

then you will manifest the Holy Spirit/Adi Shakti in your life.

 

You need to use your intelligence and discretion. I have used the treatments and

found them most helpful when I started, because I had a lot of gross matter to

clear out. Once the gross physical aspect was cleared out (because I did have a

possession of some sort and quite a dramatic clearout).... then I was fine

physically, and I was able to really concentrate on the introspection, and

meditation of course, all the time as well. Introspection is very important for

chakra cleansing. Often, the cause of the 'catch' is some conditioning idea we

have harbouring in our mind, or some ego attachment to 'some' thing. These

'ideas' and 'attachments' need to be seen in the light of the Spirit, for the

falsehoods that they are. Introspecting and realizing the false ideas and

attachments that we cling to, means we become aware of them harbouring there,

and we can then release them...in other words, surrender them to the Divine.

That is very essential to becoming 'catch-free'.

 

So.... i introspected and became aware of where my thoughts were going, and if

it was a bad thought, I forgave that thought, and continually surrendered myself

to the Divine/the Holy Spirit/the Comforter/My Spiritual Mother within me. (You

have to turn to your Spiritual Mother within you. That is most important, by the

way. You have to ask Her for help. She loves and cares for you.)

 

Physical cleansing or chakra cleansing, as it is known, works from the outside

to get the `machinery' (for want of a better word) of the kundalini flowing.

Once that `machinery' of the kundalini (which is really the " living energy " ) is

flowing well, that is great!

 

From my experience, i found that most SY's learned to work with the awakened

kundalini energy manually with their hands, but as they got more proficient,

they found that they could use their enlightened attention to do the same thing,

that is, they could direct their attention to where the cleansing/clearing was

needed, and the energy would go there and do it for them. The only difference is

that in the first instance, the hands physically move that energy, and in the

second instance, it is the 'attention' that moves that energy. It is still the

same energy we are talking about.

 

I have to say this now, and I have to say this clearly. Shri Mataji never meant

for us to stay `stuck' at the manual clearing stage. She meant for us to

discover once we were proficient, that our enlightened attention could do the

job.

 

There is a problem in the collectives today, though. The negativity within the

Sahaja Yoga Organization has been instrumental in making yogis believe that they

shall be `stuck' at the stage of having to clear manually for all their lives.

They have focussed on the manual and physical clearing practices, and just

'stuck' to that, as if you cannot evolve further than that. It is like a

doctrine now in Sahaja Yoga that you have to MANUALLY CLEAR for the rest of your

life.

 

This is not true. i know, because i experience the kundalini clearing me daily,

and therefore do not have to do it manually. Occasionally, i will use some of

the treatment when i need it. However, while the kundalini is successfully doing

the job, i don't need to also do it manually.

 

i do hope more yogis can believe that this is true. Maybe, they have been

brainwashed by leaders into believing that it is not possible for the kundalini

to do this job. Unfortunately, the negativity does not want yogis to evolve

spiritually. If it can get SY's to concentrate only on the manual clearing and

think that they have to do that for the rest of their lives, then these yogis

are `sunk' already. They will grow spiritually no further, because in the same

way as when you put your attention on `problems' in your life, and `mull' over

that, in the same way if you keep putting your attention on `chakra problems' or

even `bhoots' then that is what you will get…chakra problems and bhoots! That is

what sounds like is happening in your collective.

 

To get out of that neverending cycle, yogis need to wake up and realize that

they have been given an inaccurate picture of the whole of Shri Mataji's

teachings. Selecting only certain Words of Shri Mataji, without understanding

the whole of Her Teachings, actually leads to incorrect understanding. That's

why many SY's today believe they have to do manual clearing of chakras for the

rest of their lives. This belief in itself is actually a false belief, but many

don't realize it. Mind you, the question needs to be asked:

 

Who benefits from that false belief? SY Management do, because they benefit from

yogis staying `stuck' where they are, because they can form a religion out of

the subtle system and chakras and gain power over yogis in that way.

 

However, the truth is that... once your kundalini power is flowing, clearing

you, and you are having your spiritual liberation, nobody can manage you, but

yourself, your Spirit Within. The way to get out of the neverending cycle of

chakra problems is to introspect and to surrender any conditionings, ego, and

anything else that prevents spiritual growth.

 

You also said: -

 

" I mean I see you and Jagbir and others who have been in SY many years less, but

have none of these pesky problems with bhoots or chronic problems, and I hope to

be like you guys one day, but like I said, when I talked to anyone in real time,

those I would expect based on years of meditation to be maybe not perfect in

character, but at least thoughtless and not chronically catching, I'm shown a

painted picture of a future of meditation and puja and havan to remove all these

unseen negativities plaguing people until I die. I don't see that as living

heaven on earth and experiencing it; I see that as cleaning your chakras till

you die, at which time because of such clean chakras you will enter heaven then.

I'm not waiting if I can help It.…What is the difference between them and

yogis/yoginis like you and all the other little questions placed throughout the

third inquiry? " .........

...

 

 

The difference is as described above. I don't put my attention on 'catches' but

rather on the Holy Spirit/Adi Shakti within. The kundalini energy is flowing

unobstructedly, because the attention is on the Holy Spirit/Adi Shakti. If there

is a catch, the kundalini/enlightened attention goes there immediately and

clears it. Its quite simple, really.

 

i hope this helps.

 

violet

 

_________________

" Your power itself will show that this power is really of love,

affection, compassion for the transformation of the whole world. "

 

Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, Ganesha Puja,

10 May 1995, Cabella Italy

[Guest guest]

Dear believers of the Resurrection and Last Judgment,

 

i read Violet's post about the Vancouver ashram and, after comparing

it with the sad emails i have received from those staying/visiting

it, i am truly appalled and deeply saddenned by their firsthand

experiences at SY ashrams, the creme de la creme showpieces of SY

spirituality that is suppossed to attract seekers worldwide.

 

i quote from an email a few days ago from Vancouver:

 

" Finally i wanted to say that my friend is moving out of the ashram,

which i can say i am happy to hear. He spilled his guts to me this

past week when we hung out on all the nonsence that has been going

on since he moved in, all the pettiness and other extreme negativity

he has been experincing from other yogis since he moved in. He has

said its seem likes it becoming a church or something . Not only

that but he said that another yoginis mother(who also does not come

to the collective very often) said the same thing. So its very

apparent to him now SY is not what it appears on the surface and

that it is becoming like a church with blind followers; hence he

feels he is losing himself in the collective...his individual self

(for lack of a better term)and his ability to discover the spirit on

his own in his own way, making mistakes, without people questioning

him, or scolding him etc.

 

He asked me to extent his gratitude to you for the email you wrote me

(which i read to him) about not being scared to leave the collective

and that there is nothing wrong with being on your own etc. He asked

me to photo copy it and give it to him as he needs to have that

close. SO again, he says thank you so much.

 

I mean shoot, people were telling him that if he moves out and/or

leave the collective and goes it alone or doesnt come to meetings or

take part that he will suffer from diseases (not just him but

anyone) and have a rough time of it as he will not have the power or

protection of the vibration within the ashram. Can you believe that?

 

He also said that he realized that everyone has an opinion on this

and that, or and idea or a spice to throw on a treatment or teaching

of Shri Mataji, that he just listens only to what Mother has said

and to no one else, as everyone else is messing with the purity of

her teaching, either by misunderstanding or by " this person, said

that this is so because ......)etc. I mean people telling him

spiders are bhoots and all this stupid stuff it really blows my

mind. I found it hard to believe it was really as bad as jagbir said

it was, and at time even thought he was being a lil harsh on people,

but i see now that it is very true what he has been saying 100% and

that it is such a sad, sad thing.

 

We also were talking about in the video (Supreme source of love) how

mother said " dedicate yourself to me, not to Sahaja Yoga...as it is

only one of her aspects " and began to see that maybe she was giving

us this warning knowing full well SY the organization would fall

completely and that the only way to make it through the strom of

lies, and twisted truths and surface meanings of her teaching was to

dedicate yourself to her only and her words only. We also began to

see that maybe what she was saying was that she was only one we

could and only one we should trust, as everything else will become

great deciet. Its strange but i wouldnt put it past her, as she has

said many time that she knows everything though she may not show it. "

(end)

 

i was just telling my wife yesterday the sad state of affairs at our

collectives that cause most newcomers to flee. Now i am determined

never to ever go back to any SY collective even if they start

announcing the Divine Message. i assure all that you will never grow

much by following the SYSSR.

 

It is indeed difficult to gauge the immense loss of souls over the

decades that have left due to the Madness - the ceaseless chatter of

catches, cures and bhoots plaguing our collectives that borders on

insanity. This 'insanity' may suit the old-timers fine but the vast

majority of modern-day seekers just do not want to become spiritual

cripples and retards like them. Just like me, they too cannot take

the Sahaja Yoga Subtle System Religion indoctrination and rituals.

 

Again i assure all that you will hardly grow in the subtle system

collectives. Your best chance of self-realization and salvation lies

in your fleeing those who are so diseased by bhoots and what not

that they need to spend the rest of their lives just trying to heal.

All you need is answer this - why are outsiders like us free from

all the catches and negativity that ails the majority of SYs? Why

are individuals like us not suffering from the lies spun by so-

called self-realized souls who claim that anyone who " moves out

and/or leave the collective and goes it alone or doesnt come to

meetings or take part that he will suffer from diseases (not just

him but anyone) and have a rough time of it as he will not have the

power or protection of the vibration within the ashram. " ? Why is the

love and affection and loyalty of SYs as fleeting as morning dew?

 

It is so, so sad to watch indoctrinated SYs destroy Shri Mataji's

Vision and Divine Message. The most frightening is that they are not

even aware that they are participating in a collective destruction,

that their obsession with bhoots and catches and cures is a

cancerous negativity that is now in its advanced stage. i invite all

to witness the death throes when Shri Mataji attains Mahasamadhi.

This is just the beginning of the end of all collectives, WCASY and

their SYSSR. It is way too late to cure a collective disease that

went unchecked for decades. The prognosis is irreversible impending

death due to the lies, deceit and hypocrisy of an organization.

 

So to those now outside the organization - stand resolutely with

firm conviction and faith in Her Divine Message, and announce that

Truth at all times. That is all that will survive Her Mahasamadhi

and thrive till the End. You are already bearing witness to Her

destruction of all that is against the Truth. Never be fooled by

their hype or Will certificates.

 

Jai Shri Ganapathi,

 

 

jagbir

 

 

, " Violet "

<violet_tubb wrote:

>

> Shri Adi Shakti Forum

> Forum Topic: Sahaj Global Chat

> Yogi does not want to do treatments for the rest of his life

> Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 10:06 pm

>

> Dear All,

>

> I have received an email from a SY (whose name I will keep

confidential) and this yogi expresses great concern that the

continual treatments by yogis in his collective never seem to result

in a permanent cure, but seem to be ongoing, perhaps for the rest of

their lives. Here then is an excerpt of this yogi's message: -

>

> " I don't understand why everything is about treatments,

treatments, treatments, I need them so I use them, but I don't want

to be 25 years down the road still foot soaking everyday, and doing

matkas and stuff. Ideally I would like to not do any treatments at

all, unless something serious pops up, but simply meditate using my

hands on my chakras, mantras and affirmations only.

>

> Every person I talked to at the ashram in Vancouver here, even

people who have come from Columbia and other places to live in the

ashram, have been to Belapur and helped build it etc, are always

talking about bhoots in the ashram, bhoots in their chakras and how

they are stiff suffering from nahbi problems, or a bad swadisthan. I

mean what of the miraculous healing of the kundalini in people so

well versed in SY and by all outward appearances very devout and

this and that?

>

> I mean what it makes all this stuff seem so pointless is if you

are forever plagued with problems of the soul subtle system etc.

Every time I talk to people at the ashram my hope fades because they

paint a picture where " you just live life the best you can,

meditate, do treatments and just deal with life as it happens/hope

for the best " ; no different from what an unrealized person would

tell you about life.

>

> I mean I see you and Jagbir and others who have been in SY many

years less, but have none of these pesky problems with bhoots or

chronic problems, and I hope to be like you guys one day, but like I

said, when I talked to anyone in real time, those I would expect

based on years of meditation to be maybe not perfect in character,

but at least thoughtless and not chronically catching, I'm shown a

painted picture of a future of meditation and puja and havan to

remove all these unseen negativities plaguing people until I die.

>

> I don't see that as living heaven on earth and experiencing it; I

see that as cleaning your chakras till you die, at which time

because of such clean chakras you will enter heaven then. I'm not

waiting if I can help it.......What is the difference between them

and yogis/yoginis like you. "

>

> (name withheld)

>

>

> Dear Yogi,

>

> It is not necessarily true that I have been in Sahaja Yoga fewer

years than many yogis, since i came to Sahaja Yoga in 1993, which is

13 years ago. However, having success in Sahaja Yoga (the

experience, that is) does not depend on the number of years that a

person attends the organization of Sahaja Yoga, anyway. Rather, it

depends on the Sahaja Yogi's surrender to the Divine Within. (If you

follow the Way that Shri Mataji has shown to achieve the spiritual

liberation, it will happen).

>

> The reason everything is about `treatments' is because the

leadership have pretty exclusively focussed on treatments, and they

have also generally neglected to inform that once the kundalini is

established and flowing well, then our enlightened attention and our

kundalini become like one, and where our attention goes, there goes

our kundalini too. Then the kundalini/attention combined

automatically clear. i hope more yogis are experiencing this, and if

they are not, i would just say, to surrender, surrender, and

surrender everything, because it will happen.

>

> It is absolutely fine if you just use the treatments as you need

them. When the kundalini is flowing OK, you will know it, for your

catches will diminish. However, if you also continually `get

mentally involved' in what could be called a type of `catch

consciousness obsession', then it backfires on you, and you will

never improve. The same situation goes for the `bhoot

consciousness'. If your mind is continually on `bhoots', then that

is what you will manifest in your life. If your mind is on the Holy

Spirit/Comforter that Jesus spoke about, then you will manifest the

Holy Spirit/Adi Shakti in your life.

>

> You need to use your intelligence and discretion. I have used the

treatments and found them most helpful when I started, because I had

a lot of gross matter to clear out. Once the gross physical aspect

was cleared out (because I did have a possession of some sort and

quite a dramatic clearout).... then I was fine physically, and I was

able to really concentrate on the introspection, and meditation of

course, all the time as well. Introspection is very important for

chakra cleansing. Often, the cause of the 'catch' is some

conditioning idea we have harbouring in our mind, or some ego

attachment to 'some' thing. These 'ideas' and 'attachments' need to

be seen in the light of the Spirit, for the falsehoods that they

are. Introspecting and realizing the false ideas and attachments

that we cling to, means we become aware of them harbouring there,

and we can then release them...in other words, surrender them to the

Divine. That is very essential to becoming 'catch-free'.

>

> So.... i introspected and became aware of where my thoughts were

going, and if it was a bad thought, I forgave that thought, and

continually surrendered myself to the Divine/the Holy Spirit/the

Comforter/My Spiritual Mother within me. (You have to turn to your

Spiritual Mother within you. That is most important, by the way. You

have to ask Her for help. She loves and cares for you.)

>

> Physical cleansing or chakra cleansing, as it is known, works from

the outside to get the `machinery' (for want of a better word) of

the kundalini flowing. Once that `machinery' of the kundalini (which

is really the " living energy " ) is flowing well, that is great!

>

> From my experience, i found that most SY's learned to work with

the awakened kundalini energy manually with their hands, but as they

got more proficient, they found that they could use their

enlightened attention to do the same thing, that is, they could

direct their attention to where the cleansing/clearing was needed,

and the energy would go there and do it for them. The only

difference is that in the first instance, the hands physically move

that energy, and in the second instance, it is the 'attention' that

moves that energy. It is still the same energy we are talking about.

>

> I have to say this now, and I have to say this clearly. Shri

Mataji never meant for us to stay `stuck' at the manual clearing

stage. She meant for us to discover once we were proficient, that

our enlightened attention could do the job.

>

> There is a problem in the collectives today, though. The

negativity within the Sahaja Yoga Organization has been instrumental

in making yogis believe that they shall be `stuck' at the stage of

having to clear manually for all their lives. They have focussed on

the manual and physical clearing practices, and just 'stuck' to

that, as if you cannot evolve further than that. It is like a

doctrine now in Sahaja Yoga that you have to MANUALLY CLEAR for the

rest of your life.

>

> This is not true. i know, because i experience the kundalini

clearing me daily, and therefore do not have to do it manually.

Occasionally, i will use some of the treatment when i need it.

However, while the kundalini is successfully doing the job, i don't

need to also do it manually.

>

> i do hope more yogis can believe that this is true. Maybe, they

have been brainwashed by leaders into believing that it is not

possible for the kundalini to do this job. Unfortunately, the

negativity does not want yogis to evolve spiritually. If it can get

SY's to concentrate only on the manual clearing and think that they

have to do that for the rest of their lives, then these yogis are

`sunk' already. They will grow spiritually no further, because in

the same way as when you put your attention on `problems' in your

life, and `mull' over that, in the same way if you keep putting your

attention on `chakra problems' or even `bhoots' then that is what

you will get…chakra problems and bhoots! That is what sounds like is

happening in your collective.

>

> To get out of that neverending cycle, yogis need to wake up and

realize that they have been given an inaccurate picture of the whole

of Shri Mataji's teachings. Selecting only certain Words of Shri

Mataji, without understanding the whole of Her Teachings, actually

leads to incorrect understanding. That's why many SY's today believe

they have to do manual clearing of chakras for the rest of their

lives. This belief in itself is actually a false belief, but many

don't realize it. Mind you, the question needs to be asked:

>

> Who benefits from that false belief? SY Management do, because

they benefit from yogis staying `stuck' where they are, because they

can form a religion out of the subtle system and chakras and gain

power over yogis in that way.

>

> However, the truth is that... once your kundalini power is

flowing, clearing you, and you are having your spiritual liberation,

nobody can manage you, but yourself, your Spirit Within. The way to

get out of the neverending cycle of chakra problems is to introspect

and to surrender any conditionings, ego, and anything else that

prevents spiritual growth.

>

> You also said: -

>

> " I mean I see you and Jagbir and others who have been in SY many

years less, but have none of these pesky problems with bhoots or

chronic problems, and I hope to be like you guys one day, but like I

said, when I talked to anyone in real time, those I would expect

based on years of meditation to be maybe not perfect in character,

but at least thoughtless and not chronically catching, I'm shown a

painted picture of a future of meditation and puja and havan to

remove all these unseen negativities plaguing people until I die. I

don't see that as living heaven on earth and experiencing it; I see

that as cleaning your chakras till you die, at which time because of

such clean chakras you will enter heaven then. I'm not waiting if I

can help It.…What is the difference between them and yogis/yoginis

like you and all the other little questions placed throughout the

third inquiry? " .........

> ..

>

>

> The difference is as described above. I don't put my attention

on 'catches' but rather on the Holy Spirit/Adi Shakti within. The

kundalini energy is flowing unobstructedly, because the attention is

on the Holy Spirit/Adi Shakti. If there is a catch, the

kundalini/enlightened attention goes there immediately and clears

it. Its quite simple, really.

>

> i hope this helps.

>

> violet

>

> _________________

> " Your power itself will show that this power is really of love,

> affection, compassion for the transformation of the whole world. "

>

> Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, Ganesha Puja,

> 10 May 1995, Cabella Italy

>