Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 This is part one of a two part email i am writing. It may take another day or two to cover everything that i need to say (without malice or bad intent) so bear with me. Part one is pasted below. Kyyan================ Dear all, ( Vancouver Collective, Austrian yogi, All Sy's) It has been brought to my attention that the posts which I have been writing with regards to my collective, the Vancouver BC Canada collective, have not been happily received and I have been confronted and accused of talking badly of yogis behind their back by the things I have written on this forum regarding my collective and the yogis within that make up that collective. It has also been brought to my attention that certain references that I have made in my posts on this forum with regards to conversations I have had with yogis in my collective, about spreading SY by being truthful of Shri Mataji's identity and such, have been viewed as being taken out of context. I should say, that I was informed that certain nuances of the conversations that I have had with particular yogis with regards to their feelings and stances on being truthful upfront had been left out of my posts, thus changing the entire meaning of their responses and stances on that matter, which they view as making them look stupid and view as twisting the truth of what was ACTUALLY said to make them look bad. This email is intended to discuss these issues in detail and to make known the " supposed " nuances and other aspects of the conversations which I referenced in my e-mails (especially the most recent ones) that I have been accused of leaving out to make my points valid and make the collective look bad or as though they are doing something wrong. I will begin with these points and go from there. To start….a little background information is required. I was informed after the fact, that a certain yogi from Austria who apparently reads this forum, was angry that I had been talking about my collective and their problems so candidly and openly on a public forum, and proceeded to email people in my collective telling them of my activities on this forum and saying that I was talking badly of yogis behind their backs. I do not know this yogis name, as he never e-mailed me directly or confronted me directly, even though my email is openly visible on the forum and he could have emailed me at anytime, but was simply informed that a yogi had sent an email out to my collective, from Austria, telling them to read the posts on the forum and that I was talking badly about them BEHIND their Backs.I was then informed that people from my collective read my posts and were not happy, though some were siding with me. So with that part now known I will continue with this email beginning by addressing the AUSTRIAN yogi first, though Vancouver collective is welcome to read it and probably should. AUSTRIAN YOGI: You accuse me of talking badly of yogis behind their backs. Please tell me how I am doing so. Talking badly behind someone's back would mean that I am bashing them, saying hurtful things about them, and judging their characters in a negative way for no other reason then to hurt them or to get some sort of gain out of it at their expense. It would also mean that I am making up lies or using half truths to cast, in this case my collective, in a bad light in the eyes of anyone who were to view my posts from within or from without the collective without their knowledge, thus preventing them from stating their case and points of view. In other words saying things that could be viewed as slanderous or bad about my collective in a way that would prevent them from knowing that I am saying such things about them; i.e.: in secret…much like rumor and gossip are executed. How have I done that? Everything I have said from day one on this forum about my collective, their problems, our ashram and how things are conducted there with regards to spreading the truth, spreading gossip, rumor and superstitions has been 100% true. I have not fabricated any of it, and ALL of it has been experienced FIRST HAND by me over the year I have been a part of my collective, through witnessing first hand with my own eyes and ears, having been present at many collective gatherings and public meetings, having talked one on one with many yogis, and by having been present while other yogis spoke and discussed things of relevance in my immediate presence. I have simply expressed my personal experiences of my collective and their dealings….MY experiences, and have only used MY experiences and quotes of conversations I have had to express the current state of my collective. Not once have I lied about anything nor would I ever. What would I gain from that? What would I gain from slandering people whom I truly think are great people, people I enjoy spending time with and eating, talking etc with? Most everyone I have met at my collective are warm, caring and great people. I simply don't agree with how they spread SY and how things are dealt with and conducted within the collective. That does not mean I hate or dislike these people, rather I dislike and don't agree with what they do all of the time, especially with regards telling the truth of Shri Mataji upfront. I would like you(Austrian yogi) to please tell me how you know that what I am saying and have said about my collective is not the truth, but rather me talking badly about them by the definition above? You don't even live here or have any weekly dealings with these people, so who are you to say that these things are not taking place and that what I have said is not true? Even more to the point, you accuse me of saying these " supposed " slanderous/bad things behind their backs, as in secret so they know not what I have said about them, while the rest of the world does. How? How can you say that when I have posted ALL of my messages and thoughts regarding the Vancouver collective on an OPEN, Public Forum for anyone to read? That's right a PUBLIC forum, OPEN as well, meaning anyone and everyone, Sahaja yogi or not, Vancouver collective or not, registered user or not (yes you do not have to register to read the forum posts) can come by and read fully everything i have said. What is meant by the term `public' is- not in secret or for a select few, but for anyone and everyone to read. How is that " behind their back " as you put it? Many know of this forum from my collective and could have and can come by and read any and all my posts at anytime. I have never hidden anything I have written, rather hoped my collective would read them at some point. If anything it is you who are being a hypocrite and conducting yourself in a untruthful and secretive manner(`behind the backs of'… in this case me), considering you did not directly email me and confront me about my messages or post your thoughts and concerns on the forum for everyone to see, rather went behind MY back and sent an email out to my collective and circle of SY telling them what I have been doing and saying….instead of being open and up front by writing on the PUBLIC forum your thoughts and letting me know in a upfront way. IF anything it is you who are talking badly and accusing me behind my back, not the other way around. Finally I would like to say that if any SY from my collective has read my posts about the lack of collectivity, the lack of telling people who Shri Mataji is up front at meetings and classes, about how the collective is falling apart and shrinking in size quite a bit (even very noticeably in the short year I have been around), how the ashram is in serious money problems, and how there are rumors, gossip, sides being taken and all around un-realized behavior rampant within our collective. Whoever wants to prove me wrong and prove that all of what I have touched on in my post regarding the ashram is not true and is unfounded or made up, I openly invite them to post on this forum with their proof my " supposed " dishonesty or stretching of truth. I will touch more on the specifics of what is going on in our ashram in part 2, so people reading this know the details. Also so that any SY who reads this and any of my other post has specific things they can use in quote to plead their case if they decide I am lying and want to prove that all that I am talking about has never happened, is not currently happening and that they have never experienced, seen or heard of any such happenings. ======================================================= Vancouver Collective and everyone else, Before i go further I would like to make clear a few points with regards to my most recent email where I referred to my collective as ` oblivious' and made mention of a conversation or conversations I have had with certain yogis about spreading the truth, and their responses being that of " we are just suppose to give realization and let mother and the vibrations work it out " meaning who she is. I was told that I left out some nuances of those conversations that made the quoted answers above and in other emails incorrect, wrong, out of context and made the true meaning of the yogi's response, which was quoted, to be untrue and twisted to suit my own needs. I will touch on these and then just continue on without break or introduction. Jagbir asked me a question, which was, and I quote " " Is it true that Vancouver SYs do not want to be truthful despite the dire straits of Their collective/ashram? " I responded and some people got offended because I referred to my Collective as being `oblivious', and because I cast a judgment right across the board, excluding no one in the wild flailing of my sword; i.e. a generalization. However, what I said with regards to being oblivious was taken completely out of context and misunderstood, despite the fact that I clearly made a distinction as to what I was referring to and meant by my collective being oblivious. So to clarify once more I will start by quoting myself and what I said exactly in terms of oblivious. Here it is : " In regards to the Ashram, I honestly can say I don't think they are drawing the connection between their lack of truth spreading and the loss of their ashrams/collective Laxshmi tattwa.....oblivious I would say. " Clearly it is said that I think they are oblivious to the fact that the problems with money and the collective is connected to the fact that they are not being truthful upfront, in other words not being generous with the knowledge they have of who Shri Mataji really is and what SY is all about for whatever reason. I did not in anyway mean the people/yogis in my collective are oblivious people, meaning dimwitted, slow, stupid unintelligent or anything of that nature. Actually my collective has many very bright and intelligent people, and everyone I have met mostly has been very warm, very kind, willing to work on me, and very welcoming, and for that I am grateful. I'll even take it a step further and say they ARE aware of the internal, symptomatic problems that are causing the destruction of the collective, such as gossip, non collective interaction and behavior, ritualism, egoism, fanaticism, fear mongering, superstitions and the like. I know this because these things have been discussed at collective meetings at the ashram, as well as one on one and in small groups. Not once however, has any mention or any elucidation been made to the fact that not telling the truth upfront to EVERYONE and being generous with what is known about who Shri Mataji is and her purpose for incarnation is the root cause of the loss of collectivity and the laxshmi tattwa that is putting the ashram in danger of being too much to afford, thus in danger of being lost. Not even when I have talked to people about spreading the truth upfront and the money issues or problems with the ashram not being able to be paid for, has anyone even said to me " Hey, maybe it's the lack of being truthful and generous with that truth and knowledge that is the cause of our money problems " . The root cause of all our problems is hoarding of this knowledge. How do I know that and know that I am right about spreading the truth upfront and that being the problem hurting my collective? Well though I have not been around that long, it is easily seen that any attempt to rectify the symptomatic problems mentioned above by-- organizing outings and collective foot soaking at beaches and trying to bring the morale up and that sense of love and collectivity that used to be there(ie fixing the problems inside the collective first and trying it the same old way its been done for 10-15 years without great success and dwindling numbers of people interested ), or having music programs and more visible classes and advertisements for classes to get more people involved, excited about spreading sy again and more people to pursue SY-- has been met with extremely small success, I would even say failure. Not only has there been no regained collectivity and peaceful, gossip free interactions ( the amount of people showing up at the ashram regularly compared to when I started coming has been steadily declining and only 4 or 5 people live in the ashram now, many have moved out. The ashram has 8-10 bedrooms. The money problem still exists in its full glory and only a handful of people who attended the classes have showed up at the ashram to learn more or have stuck on from the public programs and 18 weeks course. Sure I never stayed for the full 18 weeks of the course, but I was around for the first 4-8 weeks give or take, and I saw very clearly that each class got smaller and smaller. Sometimes you would have a full room out of the blue or for two classes in a row maximum, but then it would go back to a few people. There was one day where only like 5 or 6 people showed up (not including the yogis) and instantly people were saying it as because it was a holiday weekend (we had it on Friday nights before the holiday) and because people's minds were on other things for the weekend. Either that or yogis would be afraid that they scared the people off by telling them too much too soon, which I might add was NOT that Shri Mataji is the Holy Spirit, that it is the Last Judgment and Resurrection and that the deities do exist. No mention of the religions or how Shri Mataji synthesized all religions were made at all, I assume for fear that people would think it as too religious, or perhaps they did not have the knowledge themselves to quote or explain scriptures adequately enough to satisfy the questions that would arise (I do not claim to have that knowledge right now either, but I am aware of it and am studying it via this website, forum and the texts themselves) That was around the time I began to slowly stop going to the 18 week course and eventually stopped all together. *(There have been other classes at libraries where only the yogis teaching it showed up. At that point we just watched a video and meditated on our own)* I am not saying that a lot of hard work, persistence and devotion was not put into making the classes run smoothly and the information provided was not given to the best of their ability by the yogis….. not at all. ALL the yogis who were involved all worked very, very hard, were very dedicated, very hopeful in the outcome of the classes, and very devout and loving to mother from what was said and what could be seen. My issue is with the information that was provided and what was not said upfront and outright because of fear, even though the very person they are representing and believe in so much, love so much, and want to do right by so much, has asked them to be upfront, truthful and tell all the nations many times over the last 15-20 years, exactly as She herself (Shri Mataji) has been doing. I will get to those quotes and touch on the spreading of the truth upfront in part two of this email. A few quotes regarding this for now which will be revisisted in Pt 2 of this email : **I am the Adi Shakti. I am the One who has come on this Earth for the first time in this form to do this tremendous task . The more you understand this the better it would be. You will change tremendously. I knew I'll have to say that openly one day and we have said it. But now it is you people who have to prove it that I am that! " Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Sydney, Australia — March 21, 1983** == " Tell all the nations and tell all the people, all over, the great message - that the time of Resurrection is Here. Now, at this time, and that you all are capable of doing it. You are the ones who are capable of manifesting God's joy on this earth. You are the flutes which are going to play the Melody of God. I am doing all this to perfect you to be the 'most' beautiful instruments of God. Like the ship is built, is brought to the sea, tried, and found out to be sea-worthy to sail out, when you know everything about the ship, everything about the sea, with complete freedom and wisdom, you have to sail now. Not afraid of any storms or any gales or any typhoons because now all you 'know'. Your job is to cross through. " Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi " Sahaja Yoga is the way of Nature, is the Way of God. He has given you the right to be that. It is your right that you get it, that you establish your Self in your own doing . . . So you have to grow into it. Then you will enjoy and that is the Kingdom of God which is being promised to you in which you will feel Collectively Consciousness. That is what it is and that is the Last Judgment which has been talked. How are they going to judge you? Are they going to weigh you on a scale? . . . Think about it — How are they going to judge you? The Judgment is Here! " Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Seeking In The West, London, U.K. — November 21, 1979 -------------- " In between Jesus Christ and His destroying incarnation of Mahavishnu called as Kalki there is a time given to human beings to rectify themselves; for them to enter into the Kingdom of God which in the Bible is called as Last Judgment " — that you will be judged, all of you, will be judged on this Earth. The population of the Earth is at the maximum these days because all those, practically all those, who had aspirations to enter into the Kingdom of God are born in Modern Times, and are going to be born very soon. This is the most important times because Sahaja Yoga is the Last Judgment. It is fantastic to hear this but that's the fact it is the Truth. " Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi Kundalini And Kalki Shakti, Bombay, India — September 28, 1979 -------------- Anyways, by oblivious I mean that my collective has not made mention of the fact that it may be the lack of being generous with the truth of who Shri Mataji is that is causing the lack of collectivity and the collective laxshmi problem to increase and persist despite pujas to her and well thought out plans of attracting new seekers and financing the ashram. To me if in all the time I have been there that hasn't been mentioned, it clearly says to me that the parallel has not been drawn between the two things and that though they are aware of the symptomatic problems, the root cause is not known, being considered or addressed. IF I am wrong about these things and am wrong about what I have said about my collectives current state and anyone reading this , including my collective, thinks that I am wrong or just blowing the old horn or my own ego (I know it all or whatever) then please prove me wrong. Post on here as well and prove that all I have said about the ashram and the collective, the meeting and everything else is not true so everyone can see why it is not true if that is indeed the case. Also then, please make a concerted effort to tell the truth upfront at all subsequent meetings for the next few months, telling that Shri Mataji is the Holy Spirit come to deliver the message of the Last Judgment and Resurrection as prophesied by Jesus and all the other holy book the world around and how all, prophets, deities, incarnations and messengers and their teaching agree with each other and explain how this relates to Sahaja yoga . IF you do not have the knowledge of how this is so or have only off the cuff info to back up these statements to new comers, refer them to www.adishakti.org and the subsequent other pages for Muslims and the Koran whose links can be found at that site as well, and allow them to read and research everything they need to know so that you need not worry about anything. Do this for a few months and see how it works out for you personally and our collective as a whole. IF nothing changes at all then I will admit I am wrong. However, if it does change then what can I say but what has been written by me is the truth. All that needs to be done is " an experiment with truth " by the people who run the meetings and other SY things elsewhere for a few months to test this theory of spreading SY and then watch our collectives personal state to see the outcome before passing judgement. Why not take me up on this offer and provide proof of you efforts in dong that consistently for a few months, which I am willing to help facilitate and put together( ie lesson plans etc) and see what happens. Test for yourself and then let's see if what I have said is all conjecture or not instead of just writing it off as such. I have much more to touch on with regards to this and the collectives approach, as well as some nuances I mentioned above I need to address. I don't have the time to finished an equally long email regarding these things, but I will be writing it and posting it by Friday for sure. So please stay tuned for part 2 everyone. With love Kyyan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Dear Courageous Kyyan, i refer my comments to Kyyan firstly. Kyyan you are a brave soul and a courageous yogi who is open and upfront and cares more for the Truth and the truth than the opinions of others. You are to be congratulated. It is people like you who Shri Mataji referred to when She said that it is the later yogis who will really take to Her Message and 'run with that'. To the Austrian Yogi, i would like to say that you are part of the problem and not the solution. The collectives who form part and parcel of the Movement of Love of Shri Mataji suffer under the yoke of religious oppression that is WCASY. i call it the " WCASY Syndrome " . It affects all collectives worldwide. It tends to make SY's weak and billious and unable to speak up clearly and speak the truth that they see around them and also to speak the Truth about Shri Mataji's Teachings in all their fullness. Kyyan has had the courage to say what many have not. i find it questionable that you even question his truth-telling, because one of Kyyan's greatest spiritual qualities is his " truth-telling " . i can tell you from having corresponded with him a lot that he is " painfully truthful " ... if anything. (Kyyan, don't be offended; i am making a point). Yes... Kyyan is painfully truthful... if anything. i would stand up in a court to defend Kyyan if he required me to, because i know he tells the truth and he also tells Shri Mataji's Truth. Dear Vancouver Collective (and others, too), Domination of any sort (and in this instance, it is the religious domination of all collectives worldwide by a group of Sahaja Yogis)... is the problem that all collectives face. This domination is affecting absolutely everything in the collectives... " absolutely everything! " Instead of helping to make things run smoothly, the WCASY are controlling. They are not helping by allowing " real " spiritual self-determination. Kyyan is right in what he says. He is telling the truth. What is happening to your collective Lakshmi Tattwa is that the collective has succumbed to religious domination. One of the causes of imbalance in the nahbi chakra is " domination " . So, it is in 'black-and-white'... what your problem is. It is a clear case of " religious domination " . That is exactly what it is! If you shake off this religious domination that you are under... your whole collective will improve. It does not matter that someone claims to be " in charge of you " . Tell them that they are not in charge of your Spirit... but that your Spirit is in charge of you. If enough rank and file yogis do this... the minority who try to dominate the majority will have to accept the truth of everyone being their own spiritual master, guru, and teacher. Why does a SY want to dominate anyway? Why do a group of SY's want to dominate? Because it is an imbalance in their chakras. That is what it is! They are infected with that imbalance of the need to dominate. So... like Shri Mataji has advised... be your own guru, master and teacher because you are the Spirit now! Then... if someone tries to dominate you... tell them to leave you alone... that you are not a puppet to be pulled on a string of their making and choosing. Just stand up to them. Tell them that " Shri Mataji says that you are not allowed to dominate me! " Of course... i realise that the whole collective needs a 'clean sweep' in this department and that this is a massive job. However, each person, however small their part in it, can make a difference. Look what kind of a response only one person, namely Kyyan... got! If you people support Kyyan in his open, honest, and forthright manner... there will be great improvement in collective communications all around, because there should be nothing about Sahaja Yoga or a Sahaja Yogi that needs to be hidden. If there is something that needs to be hidden... then there is something wrong happening. So this is a chance to rectify what has gone wrong in the collective. This is the chance to shake off the spiritual domination of the collective. (Forget about that yogi in Austria. You are in Vancouver. He is not your Guru by any chance... is he?!) If you are worried about the fortunes of WCASY... don't worry. Mother works everything out. They will probably settle down and do their job like Mother intended them to do, which was that they were just to look after the administrative business and She (in effect)... described it as " licking those stamps and posting those letters " . Just stand up to any tactics of domination though. Tell them that the Will of Shri Mataji is within you, and you will find out what it is, through the Holy Spirit within you... just like Kyyan has done. They are not, and i repeat... they are not " the Will of Shri Mataji " . There is no such thing possible that they can inherit Her Actual Will Within Human Beings. This is not scriptural... in fact... it is preposterous! So... it would be good if the spiritual transformation came from within the collective, because it can never be imposed from without. It would be good if the Collective that is part of the Vishuddhi of the World, would be courageous and brave to change from within, and start standing up to those who dominate them. (i personally would be proud of them, as i was born in Winnipeg, Canada, and i have much regard for this wonderful country). So... what are WCASY going to do? Are they going to then sack you all from the organisation, because you will not be dominated by them? Then there will be nobody left to dominate, will there? Then they will have to reform their ways, and just be simple administrators without any religious ambitions over others. That would be very good for their nahbis, too. This really must be seen that they are ordinary human beings just like the rank and file SY's, but the rank and file SY's are generally more spiritually-oriented as they do not have to spend so much time running an organisation. So... this is a great worldwide spiritual drama. It will gain more and more momentum and crescendo as the play continues. Believe me. And we are not going away. The numbers of truth-tellers are increasing. Many people are coming on board. More will come in future. Be part of the Real Movement of Sahaja Yoga... which is an organic movement... not a " copy/paste " externally applied thing! Forget about the 'would-be-organisers'. (They will soon toe the line that Shri Mataji gave if yogis stand up to them. They can still administrate. They can have all that. Who cares? Our most precious resource of SY is the Spirit Within. We have everything in that. The WCASY with the titles to everything, only have the external stuff, and the trait of always wanting your obedience. (Well, heel then, if that is what turns you on! i know that is a bit sacreligious, but i just wanted to get the point across. i would advise not to 'heel' though... and get on with the job that Shri Mataji asked you to do.)... Be your own organiser. That is your job, anyway. Each SY needs to organise for themselves how they will shine the Holy Spirit's Light to the world. So... yes... Kyyan is graciously giving you the information that you need for the raising up of the collective Lakshmi Tattwa, and... if truth be told...(Austrian yogi)... you are not really of " spiritual benefit " . Only the Truth gives any benefit. The Truth will set you free. That is not just a nice saying; it is a true saying! Therefore, this is as good a time as any for members of the collective to follow their conscience and stand up and be their own masters, gurus, and teachers. We are here to help you and give you the moral support that we have given Kyyan and others also... who have never even " attended " a SY Meeting in their lives, but they are understanding the teachings of Shri Mataji, and they are applying them in their lives! WCASY Members have long ago forfeited their credibility, because they have collectively succumbed to the great spiritual temptation and resulting chakra imbalance of " domination of others " . And don't be fooled... this 'monster' that is " domination " does not come from the Holy Spirit. It does not come from God! Now you have been warned by your loving fellow yogis... who we are... not to succumb to domination. There is nothing that can separate us, when we are of the Holy Spirit together... not even those 'organisational men in beige' who are attacking Sahaja Yoga from within. There are many witnesses in the spiritual world who are watching them and they are watching all of us, too. Everything you are doing is being recorded on your own spiritual record in time and place. Everything is seen. We are with you to help you. We are brothers and sisters together. We will help you to overcome this domination in the collective, so that you can have your spiritual liberty again... that is... if you truly desire that. But... you have to do your part, too. Nothing comes on a golden platter. You have to 'pull your finger out' and do the work, instead of murmuring and complaining about the circumstances in your collective. Shri Mataji has left the work for you to do. Don't expect Her to do it all. You must all stand up and be counted, like Arjuna now, who was encouraged by Shri Krishna. Or will you be weak and feeble because it is your spiritual family you are now in a spiritual battle with? Arjuna... too, had to fight against his family, because they were not following the Dharma... as set down. Neither are WCASY following the Dharma as set down by Shri Mataji. i know it is not easy. But... Kyyan is there. He is the first, who has made a definite stand and declared things that need fixing. Kyyan is a brave soul, who has had the courage to make a stand. Kyyan... you are indeed a Spiritual Warrior. Hold your head high, for you are a dynamic Sahaja Yogi. Keep remembering Arjuna and Shri Krishna. That WCASY reinforcement from Austria should stand up against you... just goes to show that these guys cannot stand when the Truth is spoken upfront where everyone can read it. They prefer to speak their truth behind people's backs and not reveal their identities... which is a characteristic of people who are in spiritual darkness. love and best wishes to all, Violet , " v_koa " <v_koa wrote: > > This is part one of a two part email i am writing. It may take > another day or two to cover everything that i need to say (without > malice or bad intent) so bear with me. Part one is pasted below. > > Kyyan================ > > Dear all, ( Vancouver Collective, Austrian yogi, All Sy's) > > It has been brought to my attention that the posts which I have been > writing with regards to my collective, the Vancouver BC Canada > collective, have not been happily received and I have been > confronted and accused of talking badly of yogis behind their back > by the things I have written on this forum regarding my collective > and the yogis within that make up that collective. It has also been > brought to my attention that certain references that I have made in > my posts on this forum with regards to conversations I have had with > yogis in my collective, about spreading SY by being truthful of Shri > Mataji's identity and such, have been viewed as being taken out of > context. I should say, that I was informed that certain nuances of > the conversations that I have had with particular yogis with regards > to their feelings and stances on being truthful upfront had been > left out of my posts, thus changing the entire meaning of their > responses and stances on that matter, which they view as making them > look stupid and view as twisting the truth of what was ACTUALLY said > to make them look bad. This email is intended to discuss these > issues in detail and to make known the " supposed " nuances and other > aspects of the conversations which I referenced in my e-mails > (especially the most recent ones) that I have been accused of > leaving out to make my points valid and make the collective look bad > or as though they are doing something wrong. I will begin with these > points and go from there. > > To start….a little background information is required. I was > informed after the fact, that a certain yogi from Austria who > apparently reads this forum, was angry that I had been talking about > my collective and their problems so candidly and openly on a public > forum, and proceeded to email people in my collective telling them > of my activities on this forum and saying that I was talking badly > of yogis behind their backs. I do not know this yogis name, as he > never e-mailed me directly or confronted me directly, even though my > email is openly visible on the forum and he could have emailed me at > anytime, but was simply informed that a yogi had sent an email out > to my collective, from Austria, telling them to read the posts on > the forum and that I was talking badly about them BEHIND their > Backs.I was then informed that people from my collective read my > posts and were not happy, though some were siding with me. So with > that part now known I will continue with this email beginning by > addressing the AUSTRIAN yogi first, though Vancouver collective is > welcome to read it and probably should. > > AUSTRIAN YOGI: You accuse me of talking badly of yogis behind their > backs. Please tell me how I am doing so. > > Talking badly behind someone's back would mean that I am bashing > them, saying hurtful things about them, and judging their characters > in a negative way for no other reason then to hurt them or to get > some sort of gain out of it at their expense. It would also mean > that I am making up lies or using half truths to cast, in this case > my collective, in a bad light in the eyes of anyone who were to > view my posts from within or from without the collective without > their knowledge, thus preventing them from stating their case and > points of view. In other words saying things that could be viewed as > slanderous or bad about my collective in a way that would prevent > them from knowing that I am saying such things about them; i.e.: in > secret…much like rumor and gossip are executed. How have I done that? > > Everything I have said from day one on this forum about my > collective, their problems, our ashram and how things are conducted > there with regards to spreading the truth, spreading gossip, rumor > and superstitions has been 100% true. I have not fabricated any of > it, and ALL of it has been experienced FIRST HAND by me over the > year I have been a part of my collective, through witnessing first > hand with my own eyes and ears, having been present at many > collective gatherings and public meetings, having talked one on one > with many yogis, and by having been present while other yogis spoke > and discussed things of relevance in my immediate presence. I have > simply expressed my personal experiences of my collective and their > dealings….MY experiences, and have only used MY experiences and > quotes of conversations I have had to express the current state of > my collective. Not once have I lied about anything nor would I ever. > What would I gain from that? What would I gain from slandering > people whom I truly think are great people, people I enjoy spending > time with and eating, talking etc with? Most everyone I have met at > my collective are warm, caring and great people. I simply don't > agree with how they spread SY and how things are dealt with and > conducted within the collective. That does not mean I hate or > dislike these people, rather I dislike and don't agree with what > they do all of the time, especially with regards telling the truth > of Shri Mataji upfront. > > I would like you(Austrian yogi) to please tell me how you know that > what I am saying and have said about my collective is not the truth, > but rather me talking badly about them by the definition above? You > don't even live here or have any weekly dealings with these people, > so who are you to say that these things are not taking place and > that what I have said is not true? > > Even more to the point, you accuse me of saying these " supposed " > slanderous/bad things behind their backs, as in secret so they know > not what I have said about them, while the rest of the world does. > How? How can you say that when I have posted ALL of my messages and > thoughts regarding the Vancouver collective on an OPEN, Public Forum > for anyone to read? That's right a PUBLIC forum, OPEN as well, > meaning anyone and everyone, Sahaja yogi or not, Vancouver > collective or not, registered user or not (yes you do not have to > register to read the forum posts) can come by and read fully > everything i have said. > > What is meant by the term `public' is- not in secret or for a select > few, but for anyone and everyone to read. How is that " behind their > back " as you put it? Many know of this forum from my collective and > could have and can come by and read any and all my posts at anytime. > I have never hidden anything I have written, rather hoped my > collective would read them at some point. > > If anything it is you who are being a hypocrite and conducting > yourself in a untruthful and secretive manner(`behind the backs of'… > in this case me), considering you did not directly email me and > confront me about my messages or post your thoughts and concerns on > the forum for everyone to see, rather went behind MY back and sent > an email out to my collective and circle of SY telling them what I > have been doing and saying….instead of being open and up front by > writing on the PUBLIC forum your thoughts and letting me know in a > upfront way. IF anything it is you who are talking badly and > accusing me behind my back, not the other way around. > > Finally I would like to say that if any SY from my collective has > read my posts about the lack of collectivity, the lack of telling > people who Shri Mataji is up front at meetings and classes, about > how the collective is falling apart and shrinking in size quite a > bit (even very noticeably in the short year I have been around), how > the ashram is in serious money problems, and how there are rumors, > gossip, sides being taken and all around un-realized behavior > rampant within our collective. Whoever wants to prove me wrong and > prove > that all of what I have touched on in my post regarding the ashram > is not true and is unfounded or made up, I openly invite them to > post on this forum with their proof my " supposed " dishonesty or > stretching of truth. I will touch more on the specifics of what is > going on in our ashram in part 2, so people reading this know the > details. Also > so that any SY who reads this and any of my other post has specific > things they can use in quote to plead their case if they decide I am > lying and want to prove > that all that I am talking about has never happened, is not > currently happening and that they have never experienced, seen or > heard of any such happenings. > > > > ======================================================= > > Vancouver Collective and everyone else, > > Before i go further I would like to make clear a few points with > regards to my most recent email where I referred to my collective > as ` oblivious' and made mention of a conversation or conversations > I have had with certain yogis about spreading the truth, and their > responses being that of " we are just suppose to give realization > and let mother and the vibrations work it out " meaning who she is. I > was told that I left out some nuances of those conversations that > made the quoted answers above and in other emails incorrect, wrong, > out of context and made the true meaning of the yogi's response, > which was quoted, to be untrue and twisted to suit my own needs. I > will touch on these and then just continue on without break or > introduction. > > Jagbir asked me a question, which was, and I quote > > " " Is it true that Vancouver SYs do not want to be truthful despite > the dire straits of Their collective/ashram? " > > I responded and some people got offended because I referred to my > Collective as being `oblivious', and because I cast a judgment right > across the board, excluding no one in the wild flailing of my > sword; i.e. a generalization. However, what I said with regards to > being oblivious was taken completely out of context and > misunderstood, despite the fact that I clearly made a distinction as > to what I was referring to and meant by my collective being > oblivious. > > So to clarify once more I will start by quoting myself and what I > said exactly in terms of oblivious. Here it is : " In regards to the > Ashram, I > honestly can say I don't think they are drawing the connection > between their > lack of truth spreading and the loss of their ashrams/collective > Laxshmi > tattwa.....oblivious I would say. " > > Clearly it is said that I think they are oblivious to the fact that > the problems with money and the collective is connected to the fact > that they are not being truthful upfront, in other words not being > generous with the knowledge they have of who Shri Mataji really is > and what SY is all about for whatever reason. I did not in anyway > mean the people/yogis in my collective are oblivious people, meaning > dimwitted, slow, stupid unintelligent or anything of that nature. > Actually my collective has many very bright and intelligent people, > and everyone I have met mostly has been very warm, very kind, > willing to work on me, and very welcoming, and for that I am > grateful. > > I'll even take it a step further and say they ARE aware of the > internal, symptomatic problems that are causing the destruction of > the collective, such as gossip, non collective interaction and > behavior, ritualism, egoism, fanaticism, fear mongering, > superstitions and the like. I know this because these things have > been discussed at collective meetings at the ashram, as well as one > on one and in small groups. Not once however, has any mention or any > elucidation been made to the fact that not telling the truth upfront > to EVERYONE and being generous with what is known about who Shri > Mataji is and her purpose for incarnation is the root cause of the > loss of collectivity and the laxshmi tattwa that is putting the > ashram in danger of being too much to afford, thus in danger of > being lost. Not even when I have talked to people about spreading > the truth upfront and the money issues or problems with the ashram > not being able to be paid for, has anyone even said to me " Hey, > maybe it's the lack of being truthful and generous with that truth > and knowledge that is the cause of our money problems " . The root > cause of all our problems is hoarding of this knowledge. > > How do I know that and know that I am right about spreading the > truth upfront and that being the problem hurting my collective? Well > though I have not been around that long, it is easily seen that any > attempt to rectify the symptomatic problems mentioned above by-- > organizing outings and collective foot soaking at beaches and trying > to bring the morale up and that sense of love and collectivity that > used to be there(ie fixing the problems inside the collective first > and trying it the same old way its been done for 10-15 years without > great success and dwindling numbers of people interested ), or > having music programs and more visible classes and advertisements > for classes to get more people involved, excited about spreading sy > again and more people to pursue SY-- has been met with extremely > small success, I would even say failure. Not only has there been no > regained collectivity and peaceful, gossip free interactions ( the > amount of people showing up at the ashram regularly compared to when > I started coming has been steadily declining and only 4 or 5 people > live in the ashram now, many have moved out. The ashram has 8-10 > bedrooms. The money problem still exists in its full glory and only > a handful of people who attended the classes have showed up at the > ashram to learn more or have stuck on from the public programs and > 18 weeks course. > > Sure I never stayed for the full 18 weeks of the course, but I was > around for the first 4-8 weeks give or take, and I saw very clearly > that each class got smaller and smaller. Sometimes you would have a > full room out of the blue or for two classes in a row maximum, but > then it would go back to a few > people. There was one day where only like 5 or 6 people showed up > (not > including the yogis) and instantly people were saying it as because > it was a holiday weekend (we had it on Friday nights before the > holiday) and because people's minds were on other things for the > weekend. Either that or yogis would be afraid that they scared the > people off by telling them too much too soon, which I might add was > NOT that Shri Mataji is the Holy Spirit, that it is the Last > Judgment and Resurrection and that the deities do exist. No mention > of the religions or how Shri Mataji synthesized all religions were > made at all, I assume for fear that people would think it as too > religious, or perhaps they did not have the knowledge themselves to > quote or explain scriptures adequately enough to satisfy the > questions that would arise (I do not claim to have that > knowledge right now either, but I am aware of it and am studying it > via this website, forum and the texts themselves) That was around > the time I began to slowly stop going to the 18 week course and > eventually stopped all together. > > *(There have been other classes at libraries where only the yogis > teaching it showed up. At that point we just watched a video and > meditated on our own)* > > I am not saying that a lot of hard work, persistence and devotion > was not put into making the classes run smoothly and the information > provided was not given to the best of their ability by the yogis….. > not at all. ALL the yogis who were involved all worked very, > very hard, were very dedicated, very hopeful in the outcome of the > classes, and very devout and loving to mother from what was said and > what could be seen. > My issue is with the > information that was provided and what was not said upfront and > outright because of fear, even though the very person they are > representing and believe in so much, love so much, and want to do > right by so much, has asked them to be upfront, truthful and tell > all the nations many times over the last 15-20 years, exactly as She > herself (Shri Mataji) has been doing. I will get to those quotes and > touch on the spreading of the truth upfront in part two of this > email. > > A few quotes regarding this for now which will be revisisted in Pt 2 > of this email : > > **I am the Adi Shakti. I am the One who has come on this Earth for > the first time in this form to do this tremendous task . The more > you understand > this the better it would be. You will change tremendously. I knew > I'll have to > say that openly one day and we have said it. But now it is you > people who have > to prove it that I am that! " > > Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi > Sydney, Australia — March 21, 1983** > > == > > " Tell all the nations and tell all the people, all over, the great > message - that the time of Resurrection is Here. Now, at this time, > and that you > all are capable of doing it. You are the ones who are capable of > manifesting > God's joy on this earth. You are the flutes which are going to play > the Melody > of God. I am doing all this to perfect you to be the 'most' beautiful > instruments of God. > > Like the ship is built, is brought to the sea, tried, and found out > to be sea-worthy to sail out, when you know everything about the > ship, > everything about the sea, with complete freedom and wisdom, you have > to sail > now. Not afraid of any storms or any gales or any typhoons because > now all you > 'know'. Your job is to cross through. " > > Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi > > > " Sahaja Yoga is the way of Nature, is the Way of God. He has given > you the right to be that. It is your right that you get it, that you > establish your Self in your own doing . . . So you have to grow into > it. Then you will enjoy and that is the Kingdom of God which is > being promised to you in which you will feel Collectively > Consciousness. That is what it is and that is the Last Judgment > which has been talked. How are they going to judge you? Are they > going to weigh you on a scale? . . . Think about it — How are they > going to judge you? The Judgment is Here! " > > Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi > Seeking In The West, London, U.K. — November 21, 1979 > > -------------- > > " In between Jesus Christ and His destroying incarnation of > Mahavishnu called as Kalki there is a time given to human beings to > rectify themselves; for them to enter into the Kingdom of God which > in the Bible is called as Last Judgment " — that you will be judged, > all of you, will be judged on this Earth. The population of the > Earth is at the maximum these days because all those, practically > all those, who had aspirations to enter into the Kingdom of God are > born in Modern Times, and are going to be born very soon. This is > the most important times because Sahaja Yoga is the Last Judgment. > It is fantastic to hear this but that's the fact it is the Truth. " > > Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi > Kundalini And Kalki Shakti, Bombay, India — September 28, 1979 > > -------------- > > > Anyways, by oblivious I mean that my collective has not made mention > of the fact that it may be the lack of being generous with the truth > of who Shri Mataji is that is causing the lack of collectivity and > the collective laxshmi problem to increase and persist despite pujas > to her and well thought out plans of attracting new seekers and > financing the ashram. To me if in all the time I have been there > that hasn't been mentioned, it clearly says to me that the parallel > has not been drawn between the two things and that though they are > aware of the symptomatic problems, the root cause is not known, > being considered or addressed. > > IF I am wrong about these things and am wrong about what I have said > about my collectives current state and anyone reading this , > including my collective, thinks that I am wrong or just blowing the > old horn or my own ego (I know it all or whatever) then please prove > me wrong. Post on here as well and prove that all I have said about > the ashram and the collective, the meeting and everything else is > not true so everyone can see why it is not true if that is indeed > the case. > > Also then, please make a concerted effort to tell the truth upfront > at all subsequent meetings for the next few months, telling that > Shri Mataji is the Holy Spirit come to deliver the message of the > Last Judgment and Resurrection as prophesied by Jesus and all the > other holy book the world around and how all, prophets, deities, > incarnations and messengers and their teaching agree with each other > and explain how this relates to Sahaja yoga . IF you do not have the > knowledge of how this is so or have only off the cuff info to back up > these statements to new comers, refer them to www.adishakti.org and > the subsequent other pages for Muslims and the Koran whose links can > be found at that site as well, and allow them to read and research > everything they need to know so that you need not worry about > anything. Do this for a few months and see how it works out for you > personally and our collective as a whole. IF nothing changes at all > then I will admit I am wrong. However, if it does change then what > can I say but what has been written by me is the truth. All that > needs to be done is " ;an experiment with truth " by the people who run > the meetings and other SY things elsewhere for a few months to test > this theory of spreading SY and then watch our collectives personal > state to see the outcome before passing judgement. Why not take me > up on this offer and provide proof of you efforts in dong that > consistently for a few months, which I am willing to help > facilitate and put together( ie lesson plans etc) and see what > happens. Test for yourself and then let's see if what I have said is > all conjecture or not instead of just writing it off as such. > > I have much more to touch on with regards to this and the > collectives approach, as well as some nuances I mentioned above I > need to address. I don't have the time to finished an equally long > email regarding these things, but I will be writing it and posting > it by Friday for sure. So please stay tuned for part 2 everyone. > > With love > > Kyyan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 , " Violet " <violet.tubb wrote: > > Dear Courageous Kyyan, > > i refer my comments to Kyyan firstly. Kyyan you are a brave soul and > a courageous yogi who is open and upfront and cares more for the > Truth and the truth than the opinions of others. You are to be > congratulated. It is people like you who Shri Mataji referred to > when She said that it is the later yogis who will really take to Her > Message and 'run with that'. > Dear Violet, i am feeling your joy and pride in having a great soul like Kyyan. Let me remind all that it is you who have ALWAYS nurtured Kyyan since the beginning through all his trials and tribulations. May this day always inspire what you are capable of, and this is but a start. So be confident that you are capable of great heights and you do not need anyone, except the Shakti within, to guide. You WILL continue to grow - i offer you Silence as thanks. Learn to unearth it innermost secrets. Jai Shri Ganapathi, jagbir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 16, 2006 Report Share Posted August 16, 2006 Dear Jagbir, Thank you for all your most kind sentiments. violet , " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org wrote: > > , " Violet " > <violet.tubb@> wrote: > > > > Dear Courageous Kyyan, > > > > i refer my comments to Kyyan firstly. Kyyan you are a brave soul and > > a courageous yogi who is open and upfront and cares more for the > > Truth and the truth than the opinions of others. You are to be > > congratulated. It is people like you who Shri Mataji referred to > > when She said that it is the later yogis who will really take to Her > > Message and 'run with that'. > > > > Dear Violet, > > i am feeling your joy and pride in having a great soul like Kyyan. Let > me remind all that it is you who have ALWAYS nurtured Kyyan since the > beginning through all his trials and tribulations. May this day always > inspire what you are capable of, and this is but a start. So be > confident that you are capable of great heights and you do not need > anyone, except the Shakti within, to guide. You WILL continue to grow - > i offer you Silence as thanks. Learn to unearth it innermost secrets. > > Jai Shri Ganapathi, > > > jagbir > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 17, 2006 Report Share Posted August 17, 2006 P.S... I forgot to say one thing... and that is how much yu have helped me Jagbir (and others have too). If you had not helped me, i would not have been able to help Kyyan. It is like a Jacob's Ladder. We each lend a helping hand to the person within our reach up the spiritual ladder. i think that is how it works. i think that is how we can spread our Sahaj Love... our Movement of Love, which Sahaja Yoga is... to the world. When they see our spiritual love for each other... they will want that too. That is what really attracts and that is what people want. We are talking about the greatest power on Earth that holds the atoms and molecules in place, and that holds us in the " Palm of His Hands " . That reminds me of a Christian song to that effect, but i can't think of the exact words right now. It goes something like: " They will know us by our love for each other " . Something like that, but that is not the complete thing... i believe that is what all Sahaja Yogis would like to strive for, too... and this is the creative use of the power of love to transform the humanity. With that... each person will discover their unique spiritual talents, as Kyyan is discovering also. He has made my day! i am thrilled. i do feel that all the help i have given him; he is in turn helping others with that. Thus he will grow spiritually because he is being truthful and honest and prepared to stick his neck out to help bring about spiritual transformation in the collective. As he enlightens others he will receive more spiritual light himself. That is how Sahaj Love " really " works. violet , " Violet " <violet.tubb wrote: > > Dear Jagbir, > > Thank you for all your most kind sentiments. > > violet > > > , " jagbir > singh " <adishakti_org@> wrote: > > > > , " Violet " > > <violet.tubb@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Courageous Kyyan, > > > > > > i refer my comments to Kyyan firstly. Kyyan you are a brave soul > and > > > a courageous yogi who is open and upfront and cares more for the > > > Truth and the truth than the opinions of others. You are to be > > > congratulated. It is people like you who Shri Mataji referred to > > > when She said that it is the later yogis who will really take to > Her > > > Message and 'run with that'. > > > > > > > Dear Violet, > > > > i am feeling your joy and pride in having a great soul like Kyyan. > Let > > me remind all that it is you who have ALWAYS nurtured Kyyan since > the > > beginning through all his trials and tribulations. May this day > always > > inspire what you are capable of, and this is but a start. So be > > confident that you are capable of great heights and you do not need > > anyone, except the Shakti within, to guide. You WILL continue to > grow - > > i offer you Silence as thanks. Learn to unearth it innermost > secrets. > > > > Jai Shri Ganapathi, > > > > > > jagbir > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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