ALAN WERRY, and others, A question if you will.....

[Guest guest]

Dear Alan specifically and John too,

 

I had a question regarding your email below, Alan, and would like

you to provide me with something first off.

 

I notice you have listed a bunch of reasons why Jagbir is eccentric,

not a SY and should be avoided, and i noticed at the end of that

list you threw in " and also at times of Shri Mataji " for good

measure. I would like you to please post proof of this on the forum

and to the person the email below was sent to, proof of how Jagbir

has said anything of a critical or hurtful nature of Shri Mataji.

Please, i find this claim interesting and to be honest, down right

ridiculous. Just by even reading any of the posts that Jagbir has

written as well as any page on Adi Shakti.org and other websites, it

is clearly seen that the sites, the posts and Jagbir are full of

nothing but love, devotion, and the truth, and the truth is what is

being stated about Shri Mataji by Jagbir. It's so obvious that it's

almost stupid that you would even attempt such a blatantly false

claim. Someone who has dedicated so much time, personal study,

money, energy and time into websites that do everything and cover

everything that you and the WCASY and the organization have failed

to do in the last 15 years, and for no money, no recognition, no

shot at leadership, no right hand spot beside the physical

incarnation of the Adi Shakti...nothing but to make sure no one

misses the blessings of the divine and has the truth there to judge

for themselves, shows by itself that this man named Jagbir is

not " off " , nor possessed no against Shri Mataji in anyway. How could

he be if he is doing exactly what She Has asked many times?

Interestingly enough, the very person(you and the WCASY) who is in

charge( i would say figuratively speaking)of telling the world about

the goddess and the truth and representing Shri Mataji in public,

are not even doing what the very person your representing has asked

you to do, and you are what people see first(But luckly that is

changing). It seems to me that if anything, who is truly against

Shri Mataji is the very person(s) who attacks and tries to

undermine one of her devoted bahkti's at the first chance he gets.

 

However I digress; please go through the website and the forum and

show me one instance where Jagbir has ever said anything critical

about Shri Mataji. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to

see you substantiate that claim. Not only that, but if it's true

then you should have no fear or hesitation to provide the proof

right away for all to see on this forum. If it's true, what's to be

scared of?

 

Foot soaking and treatments have become fanatical, along with the

obsessive focus on the subtle system, as is evident by persons who

have been in SY from day one and are still soaking their feet to

clear problems after countless times in the presence of mother's

physical incarnation. Even more to the point, after 25 or so years

meditating and raising their own kundalini, how could it be possible

that external assistance would even be needed if they are one with

the Divine or growing into such great depth? Somehow that doesn't

add up.

It then makes sense that someone who would be so devoted to the Adi

Shakti and to the seekers of her would not advocate something which

would keep the person bound up, their attention as well, in

something that was not the Adi Shakti and something that would not

allow the peron to become their spirit and one with the very person

they are searching for.

 

Treatments work, no doubt. However, fanatical use of them does

nothing but cause dependence, much like a laxative. By using

treatments, as you know Alan, you are simply moving energy around,

but the energy you are moving around is none other then the Adi

Shakti within, which Shri Mataji is an incarnation, the greatest of

all incarnations. However, the term " treatment " as printed in the

Webster Dictionary online, defines treatment as "

 

a : the act or manner or an instance of treating someone or

something : HANDLING, USAGE <the star requires careful treatment>

 

b : the techniques or actions customarily applied in a specified

situation

 

Pay close attention to letter B. A treatment is used and or applied

in a specific situation. In SY a specific situation means if you

have a condition which prevents the kundalini from flowing freely to

the Kingdom of God within, or in SY organizational

terms " Sahastrara " . Once a treatment has had its desired effect,

meaning the condition treated improves and goes away, the treatment,

which again is used for a specific condition, becomes meaningless

and unnecessary.

 

It's like medicine. If you have a headache or get the flu once a

year, you take medicine. Once it passes you don't continue to take

the medicine do you? What would be the point? It would cause

dependence and in the end damage. You wouldn't get well but get

worse, especially because you would not have the ability to be

healthy (balanced) without them, and rely on your own healing powers

like the immune system(Adi Shakti) to take care of you, as it

should be.

 

Besides, Shri Mataji was asked once, (of which i have the transcript

if you are not familiar with this incident), How much of her ability

to heal people was based on the person's belief and faith in her.

She responded by saying-- 'all of it'.

 

So it stands to reason that if you are foot soaking, and doing

treatments with the hope, belief and faith that these treatments

will cure you, will heal you and will deepen your experiences

within, that the hope and faith and belief is not based on and is

not in the Adi Shakti, but rather in the treatments themselves. So

if it is the belief in Shri Mataji(within) that allows her(both

physical incarnation and more importantly her eternal form within)to

heal people, and your belief and faith is in the treatments to do

that for you, then it stands to reason that doing the treatments is

not going to heal you, cure you or help you grow or come to know

your spirit and mother(which is the point of our ascent), but rather

do nothing but soften the skin of the feet and relax your aching

muscles.

No wonder someone so devoted to the Shakti within would be totally

against the fanatical use of treatments, especially if that means

that the seeker using the treatments will never know the Shakti

within because his attention is ONLY on the treatments and the great

benefits of soft skin by way of a high quality salt and water

combination.

 

 

To finish I would just like to say I shouldn't call you a liar or a

secretive, devious person, as you are very right in saying that

Jagbir is in no way a Sahaja Yogi by YOUR definition.

Your right, he doesn't advocate foot soaking and fanatical use of

treatments; he does say that when you are connected within to the

Adi Shakti within(which is the power of all things, the creator of

all things, the will of God), there is no need for anything

external, even mothers picture. What would the need be for something

external when it is the internal and the eternal which grants

moksha, and is what gives one his ascent?

And he does criticize leadership and the WCASY whenever they attempt

to perpetuate a false truth or mislead other Sy's and seekers, and

anytime they do something against The Adi Shakti. If something is

corrupt or untrue or is being done again your mother( The Adi

Shakti within) one must defend her to the death, even if it is cming

from the same family(much like Ajuna had to).

So you are right.

 

Jagbir is a Sahaja Yogi( a person born of the spirit, not a member

of an organization) By Shri Mataji's definition though. He stands

up for the truth at all costs, even in the face of any and all

scrutiny and lies, negativity and hate. He tells the truth and

spreads the truth and informs everyone of the truth as Shri Mataji

has asked us to do, which i might add, SY the organization is not

and has not been doing. He does not hesitate to stand up to anyone

to protect and defend his mother(The Adi Shakti) and he will not

compromise with truth under any circumstances or threats to his well

being.

 

No lets see, which of these two descriptions of a Sahaja yogi(a

twice born person who is devoted to the Adi Shakti- Shri Mataji

Nirmala Devi) do you think has any real meaning or holds any real

importance?

 

I'm sure your capable, so ill let you put two and two together.

 

Jai Shri Adi Shakti

 

Kyyan

 

==========================================================

 

 

> Viktor Bondar <viktorbo108

> " Yura " < inspired

> Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:23:59 +0200

> Fw: Hi Viktor

>

> John Noyce of Australia has been keeping a close eye on the

> activities of the owner of www.adishakti.org , who used to be in SY

> but clearly isn't a Sahaja Yogi now, and is openly critical of all

> Sahaja leadership, including, at times Shri Mataji Herself.

>

> He is somewhat eccentric and for example, advocates not using a

> photo of Mother when meditating, not footsoaking etc. The owner of

> this site, one Jagbir Singh of Canada is on a crusade to spread his

> own eccentric, supraconscious view of what Sahaja Yoga is, and

> where possible we should advise people not to go there - although

> of course, individuals are free to do what they like.

>

> John tells me that the web site http://inspired.kiev.ua/about/

> links to www.adishakti.org

>

> Obviously, I don't know the owner of that web site, Yuriy Linnyk,

> whether he is Sahaj or not, but in the event that he is known to

> you, is it possible that you might prevail upon him to remove the

> link as it contains much erroneous and inaccurate information.

> Yuriy lists adishakti.org before the official Sahaj Yoga website.

>

> Much love and best wishes

>

> Alan

> Jai Shri Mataji

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Kyyan,

 

Just wanted to let you know that this post of yours is very much

appreciated by me as it collectively allows us to confront those who

think they are above the law. i am quite sure WCASY members will

just sweep these charges against their own under their carpet.

However, you must know that for the first time they are facing a

fearless collective of self-realized souls determined to expose all

that ails Sahaja Yoga, washing their dirty carpet in public to

expose the dirt that has accumulated over the years for all to see.

 

In the process all of us are going to learn deeper knowledge,

continue withdrawing within, accelerate our spiritual growth

significantly, learn to be our own masters and be free from the

ignorance that binds most SYs in bondage to WCASY and SYSSR. i

assure all that sooner or later the realization will come as to the

chasm between those merging with the Shakti and Silence, and the

vast majority still struggling with catches ............ after more

than 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years in Sahaja Yoga.

 

i must emphasize that few are yet able to understand the unsurpassed

beauty and awesome serenity of Her Divine Message. It will take you

years to grasp and envision its vastness, grandeur and power - and

that also if you understand and view in Silence. i cannot bring you

to this height because not only am i still climbing ever higher to

get a better view, but it is an individual journey. All i can do is

make you aware and give directions to take of this secret path

within which will lead you to postrate yourself before the Adi

Shakti for all eternity.

 

i now postrate before and meditate on my own Self. My Self and

Shakti and Brahman are one and the same. How can i now ever agree

with and condone the ceaseless chatter of catches and cures that

plagues our collectives?

 

Jai Shri Mataji,

 

jagbir

 

 

, " v_koa " <v_koa

wrote:

>

> Dear Alan specifically and John too,

>

> I had a question regarding your email below, Alan, and would like

> you to provide me with something first off.

>

> I notice you have listed a bunch of reasons why Jagbir is

eccentric, not a SY and should be avoided, and i noticed at the end

of that list you threw in " and also at times of Shri Mataji " for

good measure. I would like you to please post proof of this on the

forum and to the person the email below was sent to, proof of how

Jagbir has said anything of a critical or hurtful nature of Shri

Mataji. Please, i find this claim interesting and to be honest, down

right ridiculous. Just by even reading any of the posts that Jagbir

has written as well as any page on Adi Shakti.org and other

websites, it is clearly seen that the sites, the posts and Jagbir

are full of nothing but love, devotion, and the truth, and the truth

is what is being stated about Shri Mataji by Jagbir. It's so obvious

that it's almost stupid that you would even attempt such a blatantly

false claim. Someone who has dedicated so much time, personal study,

> money, energy and time into websites that do everything and cover

> everything that you and the WCASY and the organization have failed

> to do in the last 15 years, and for no money, no recognition, no

> shot at leadership, no right hand spot beside the physical

> incarnation of the Adi Shakti...nothing but to make sure no one

> misses the blessings of the divine and has the truth there to

judge for themselves, shows by itself that this man named Jagbir is

> not " off " , nor possessed no against Shri Mataji in anyway. How

could he be if he is doing exactly what She Has asked many times?

> Interestingly enough, the very person(you and the WCASY) who is in

> charge( i would say figuratively speaking)of telling the world

about the goddess and the truth and representing Shri Mataji in

public, are not even doing what the very person your representing

has asked you to do, and you are what people see first(But luckly

that is changing). It seems to me that if anything, who is truly

against Shri Mataji is the very person(s) who attacks and tries to

> undermine one of her devoted bahkti's at the first chance he gets.

>

> However I digress; please go through the website and the forum

and show me one instance where Jagbir has ever said anything

critical about Shri Mataji. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would

like to see you substantiate that claim. Not only that, but if it's

true then you should have no fear or hesitation to provide the proof

> right away for all to see on this forum. If it's true, what's to

be scared of?

>

> Foot soaking and treatments have become fanatical, along with the

> obsessive focus on the subtle system, as is evident by persons who

> have been in SY from day one and are still soaking their feet to

> clear problems after countless times in the presence of mother's

> physical incarnation. Even more to the point, after 25 or so years

> meditating and raising their own kundalini, how could it be

possible that external assistance would even be needed if they are

one with the Divine or growing into such great depth? Somehow that

doesn't add up. It then makes sense that someone who would be so

devoted to the Adi Shakti and to the seekers of her would not

advocate something which would keep the person bound up, their

attention as well, in something that was not the Adi Shakti and

something that would not allow the peron to become their spirit and

one with the very person they are searching for.

>

> Treatments work, no doubt. However, fanatical use of them does

> nothing but cause dependence, much like a laxative. By using

> treatments, as you know Alan, you are simply moving energy around,

> but the energy you are moving around is none other then the Adi

> Shakti within, which Shri Mataji is an incarnation, the greatest

of all incarnations. However, the term " treatment " as printed in the

> Webster Dictionary online, defines treatment as "

>

> a : the act or manner or an instance of treating someone or

> something : HANDLING, USAGE <the star requires careful treatment>

>

> b : the techniques or actions customarily applied in a specified

> situation

>

> Pay close attention to letter B. A treatment is used and or

applied in a specific situation. In SY a specific situation means if

you have a condition which prevents the kundalini from flowing

freely to the Kingdom of God within, or in SY organizational

> terms " Sahastrara " . Once a treatment has had its desired effect,

> meaning the condition treated improves and goes away, the

treatment, which again is used for a specific condition, becomes

meaningless and unnecessary.

>

> It's like medicine. If you have a headache or get the flu once a

> year, you take medicine. Once it passes you don't continue to take

> the medicine do you? What would be the point? It would cause

> dependence and in the end damage. You wouldn't get well but get

> worse, especially because you would not have the ability to be

> healthy (balanced) without them, and rely on your own healing

powers like the immune system(Adi Shakti) to take care of you, as

it should be.

>

> Besides, Shri Mataji was asked once, (of which i have the

transcript if you are not familiar with this incident), How much of

her ability to heal people was based on the person's belief and

faith in her. She responded by saying-- 'all of it'.

>

> So it stands to reason that if you are foot soaking, and doing

> treatments with the hope, belief and faith that these treatments

> will cure you, will heal you and will deepen your experiences

> within, that the hope and faith and belief is not based on and is

> not in the Adi Shakti, but rather in the treatments themselves. So

> if it is the belief in Shri Mataji(within) that allows her(both

> physical incarnation and more importantly her eternal form within)

to heal people, and your belief and faith is in the treatments to do

> that for you, then it stands to reason that doing the treatments

is not going to heal you, cure you or help you grow or come to know

> your spirit and mother(which is the point of our ascent), but

rather do nothing but soften the skin of the feet and relax your

aching muscles. No wonder someone so devoted to the Shakti within

would be totally against the fanatical use of treatments, especially

if that means that the seeker using the treatments will never know

the Shakti within because his attention is ONLY on the treatments

and the great benefits of soft skin by way of a high quality salt

and water combination.

>

>

> To finish I would just like to say I shouldn't call you a liar or

a secretive, devious person, as you are very right in saying that

> Jagbir is in no way a Sahaja Yogi by YOUR definition.

> Your right, he doesn't advocate foot soaking and fanatical use of

> treatments; he does say that when you are connected within to the

> Adi Shakti within(which is the power of all things, the creator of

> all things, the will of God), there is no need for anything

> external, even mothers picture. What would the need be for

something external when it is the internal and the eternal which

grants moksha, and is what gives one his ascent? And he does

criticize leadership and the WCASY whenever they attempt

> to perpetuate a false truth or mislead other Sy's and seekers, and

> anytime they do something against The Adi Shakti. If something is

> corrupt or untrue or is being done again your mother( The Adi

> Shakti within) one must defend her to the death, even if it is

cming from the same family(much like Ajuna had to).

> So you are right.

>

> Jagbir is a Sahaja Yogi( a person born of the spirit, not a member

> of an organization) By Shri Mataji's definition though. He stands

> up for the truth at all costs, even in the face of any and all

> scrutiny and lies, negativity and hate. He tells the truth and

> spreads the truth and informs everyone of the truth as Shri

Mataji has asked us to do, which i might add, SY the organization is

not and has not been doing. He does not hesitate to stand up to

anyone to protect and defend his mother(The Adi Shakti) and he will

not compromise with truth under any circumstances or threats to his

well being.

>

> No lets see, which of these two descriptions of a Sahaja yogi(a

> twice born person who is devoted to the Adi Shakti- Shri Mataji

> Nirmala Devi) do you think has any real meaning or holds any real

> importance?

>

> I'm sure your capable, so ill let you put two and two together.

>

> Jai Shri Adi Shakti

>

> Kyyan

>

> ==========================================================

>

>

> > Viktor Bondar <viktorbo108@>

> > " Yura " < inspired@>

> > Mon, 6 Mar 2006 17:23:59 +0200

> > Fw: Hi Viktor

> >

> > John Noyce of Australia has been keeping a close eye on the

> > activities of the owner of www.adishakti.org , who used to be in

SY but clearly isn't a Sahaja Yogi now, and is openly critical of

all Sahaja leadership, including, at times Shri Mataji Herself.

> >

> > He is somewhat eccentric and for example, advocates not using a

> > photo of Mother when meditating, not footsoaking etc. The owner

of this site, one Jagbir Singh of Canada is on a crusade to spread

his own eccentric, supraconscious view of what Sahaja Yoga is, and

> > where possible we should advise people not to go there -

although of course, individuals are free to do what they like.

> >

> > John tells me that the web site http://inspired.kiev.ua/about/

> > links to www.adishakti.org

> >

> > Obviously, I don't know the owner of that web site, Yuriy

Linnyk, whether he is Sahaj or not, but in the event that he is

known to you, is it possible that you might prevail upon him to

remove the link as it contains much erroneous and inaccurate

information. Yuriy lists adishakti.org before the official Sahaj

Yoga website.

> >

> > Much love and best wishes

> >

> > Alan

> > Jai Shri Mataji

> >

> >

> >

>