Vancouver collective confirms subtle system approach is absolutely untenable

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

Kyyan has given a truthful first-hand account of the problems facing

the Vancouver collective. i commend his frank and innocent narration

of his observations and experiences, which mirrors the dire straits

of Sahaja Yoga worldwide. Most SYs can relate to what he has

decribed in relation to the lack of seekers everywhere despite all

the hard work, dedication and desire to spread Sahaja Yoga. It must

be made clear that by " Sahaja Yoga " i mean the niche subtle system

and not Her Divine Message in its entirety.

 

i have been telling SYs since mid-90s that neither the subtle system

nor vibrations (Cool Breeze) is not going to attract seekers. This

was based on my own initial rejection of Sahaja Yoga despite a close

friend teaching me about Shri Mataji and the subtle system in quite

detail. We must not overlook the fact that those days the internet

was almost non-existent. Yet all the subtle system information and

vibrations, which so excited SYs, never made any difference. Today

SYs are still flogging the same information that pales in

comparision to what is available both free and commercially on the

internet. There is no way things are going to improve. On the

contrary, with the mushrooming number of yoga schools and teachers

available, the situation will only get bad before getting worse.

 

Kyyan has experienced what i have since a decade ago.

 

Then ther is the self-destruction of the collective by gossip,

non-collective interaction and behavior, ritualism, egoism,

fanaticism, fear mongering, superstitions and the like. These

diseases plague each and every SY collective. Not a single one has

escaped these highly infectious endemic diseases.

 

There is always this ceaseless chatter of catches i.e., gossiping

about the subtle system problems of every Tom, Dick and Harry in the

collective. One is constantly judged ......... often behind your

back. i would have gone 'insane' from hearing the subtle system

problems of others. And if that failed the long list of reasons for

catches and treatments would have.

 

i do not want to touch on non-collective interaction and behavior,

ritualism, egoism, fanaticism, fear mongering, superstitions etc.

These personal experiences may devastate Montreal and Toronto SYs.

In this thoughtless state i just cannot bring myself to remember the

things so-called self-realized souls believed, murmured and made

fools of themselves.

 

So in Part One i conclude there are two things that over the years/

decades have hindered or destroyed the progress of Sahaja Yoga:

 

i) advertising Sahaj Yoga as the subtle system;

ii) exposing seekers to the endemic collective diseases of gossip,

non-collective interaction and behavior, ritualism, egoism,

fanaticism, fear mongering, superstitions and jealousy.

 

jagbir

 

 

 

, " v_koa " <v_koa

wrote:

>

> Jagbir asked me a question, which was, and I quote

>

> " " Is it true that Vancouver SYs do not want to be truthful despite

> the dire straits of Their collective/ashram? "

>

> I responded and some people got offended because I referred to my

> Collective as being `oblivious', and because I cast a judgment

> right across the board, excluding no one in the wild flailing of my

> sword; i.e. a generalization. However, what I said with regards to

> being oblivious was taken completely out of context and

> misunderstood, despite the fact that I clearly made a distinction

> as to what I was referring to and meant by my collective being

> oblivious.

>

> So to clarify once more I will start by quoting myself and what I

> said exactly in terms of oblivious. Here it is : " In regards to

> the Ashram, I honestly can say I don't think they are drawing the

> connection between their lack of truth spreading and the loss of

> their ashrams/collective Laxshmi tattwa.....oblivious I would

> say. "

>

> Clearly it is said that I think they are oblivious to the fact that

> the problems with money and the collective is connected to the fact

> that they are not being truthful upfront, in other words not being

> generous with the knowledge they have of who Shri Mataji really is

> and what SY is all about for whatever reason. I did not in anyway

> mean the people/yogis in my collective are oblivious people,

> meaning dimwitted, slow, stupid unintelligent or anything of that

> nature. Actually my collective has many very bright and

> intelligent people, and everyone I have met mostly has been very

> warm, very kind, willing to work on me, and very welcoming, and

> for that I am grateful.

>

> I'll even take it a step further and say they ARE aware of the

> internal, symptomatic problems that are causing the destruction of

> the collective, such as gossip, non collective interaction and

> behavior, ritualism, egoism, fanaticism, fear mongering,

> superstitions and the like. I know this because these things have

> been discussed at collective meetings at the ashram, as well as one

> on one and in small groups. Not once however, has any mention or

> any elucidation been made to the fact that not telling the truth

> upfront to EVERYONE and being generous with what is known about

> who Shri Mataji is and her purpose for incarnation is the root

> cause of the loss of collectivity and the laxshmi tattwa that is

> putting the ashram in danger of being too much to afford, thus in

> danger of being lost. Not even when I have talked to people about

> spreading the truth upfront and the money issues or problems with

> the ashram not being able to be paid for, has anyone even said to

> me " Hey, maybe it's the lack of being truthful and generous with

> that truth and knowledge that is the cause of our money problems " .

> The root cause of all our problems is hoarding of this knowledge.

>

> How do I know that and know that I am right about spreading the

> truth upfront and that being the problem hurting my collective?

> Well though I have not been around that long, it is easily seen

> that any attempt to rectify the symptomatic problems mentioned

> above by-- organizing outings and collective foot soaking at

> beaches and trying to bring the morale up and that sense of love

> and collectivity that used to be there(ie fixing the problems

> inside the collective first and trying it the same old way its

> been done for 10-15 years without great success and dwindling

> numbers of people interested ), or having music programs and more

> visible classes and advertisements for classes to get more people

> involved, excited about spreading sy again and more people to

> pursue SY-- has been met with extremely small success, I would

> even say failure. Not only has there been noregained collectivity

> and peaceful, gossip free interactions (the amount of people

> showing up at the ashram regularly compared to when I started

> coming has been steadily declining and only 4 or 5 people live in

> the ashram now, many have moved out. The ashram has 8-10 bedrooms.

> The money problem still exists in its full glory and only a

> handful of people who attended the classes have showed up at the

> ashram to learn more or have stuck on from the public programs and

> 18 weeks course.

>

> Sure I never stayed for the full 18 weeks of the course, but I was

> around for the first 4-8 weeks give or take, and I saw very clearly

> that each class got smaller and smaller. Sometimes you would have a

> full room out of the blue or for two classes in a row maximum, but

> then it would go back to a few people. There was one day where

> only like 5 or 6 people showed up (not including the yogis) and

> instantly people were saying it as because it was a holiday

> weekend (we had it on Friday nights before the holiday) and

> because people's minds were on other things for the weekend.

> Either that or yogis would be afraid that they scared the people

> off by telling them too much too soon, which I might add was NOT

> that Shri Mataji is the Holy Spirit, that it is the Last Judgment

> and Resurrection and that the deities do exist. No mention of the

> religions or how Shri Mataji synthesized all religions were made

> at all, I assume for fear that people would think it as too

> religious, or perhaps they did not have the knowledge themselves

> to quote or explain scriptures adequately enough to satisfy the

> questions that would arise (I do not claim to have that knowledge

> right now either, but I am aware of it and am studying it via this

> website, forum and the texts themselves) That was around the time

> I began to slowly stop going to the 18 week course and eventually

> stopped all together.

>

> *(There have been other classes at libraries where only the yogis

> teaching it showed up. At that point we just watched a video and

> meditated on our own)*

>