illusion?

[Guest guest]

, pallawi <pallawip

wrote:

>

> I often think and wonder about this and still in search of an answer.

>

> When I say with great affirmation that 'You are the doer and You are the

enjoyer' which to me means that everything that happens in my life and around me

(mahamaya )is done by HER and definitely for good whatever I understand the

depth of goodness and significance or not.The success and failures,the happiness

and pain ...everything is indeed the prasad (gift) from my mother.

 

> Then why I need to give 'bandhans' for things I do? As I think giving

bandhan does mean that i want some sort of success in the task/HER attention

/want in a particular way.But why ? If I am just HER instrument and whatever

has to happened is HER Will ?

 

 

Dear Pallawi and All,

 

Palawi, you said that you understand the affirmation: " You are the Doer and You

are the Enjoyer " to mean that everything that happens in your life is done by

" Her " , whether it is the good, the bad, the success or the failures, the

happiness or the sadness.

 

i can only explain to your enquiries from my own spiritual understanding and

experience, so i hope this helps:

 

The affirmation " I do nothing; Verily You are the Doer and You are the Enjoyer "

was given by Shri Mataji particularly for those people who overdo it physically

and mentally and who think that if they do not continue that way, the world will

stop 'going round'. She was addressing this particularly to workaholics or those

who do too much or think too much all the time, so they could relax a bit about

things and come into more of a balanced perspective on things.

 

Apart from this, Shri Mataji did in fact teach that there is a Living Force that

does what She called " the Living Work of Creation " and She called it the

" paramchaitanya " .

 

So... according to Shri Mataji, it is this Living Force of the Paramchaitanya

that is the actual " Doer " of all the " Living Work " . The word " paramchaitanya "

literally mean the 'vibrations that surround us': (param = surround; chaitanya =

vibrations).

 

BTW... this Living Force also sustains the Creation and if it leaves any part of

the Creation, that thing will die. So... it is also the Living Force of

Destruction... in that... if it leaves any physical form of creation, that

physical form will cease; will die... as it no longer has the Living Force to

sustain it. We know this as the Cycle of Creation.

 

Okay... 'washing the car, sweeping the floor, or doing the dishes' is a physical

work and it is not the same as the " Living Work of Creation " . The paramchaitanya

will not do those jobs for us, because it only does the Living Spiritual Work;

it does not do what Shri Mataji calls " the dead work " .

 

However, Shri Mataji has said that the paramchaitanya will work through us and

with us. This is the closest understanding we can come to in regards to a

" Co-Creation with the Divine " .

 

Shri Mataji has taught that we can work with the paramchaitanya... the Living

Force. " How " ? you might ask. Shri Mataji taught that we can use our enlightened

attention to work things out for ourselves and others. She taught that the

paramchaitanya is all around us; it flows in us and around us, and whatever is

our Pure Desire (of the Spirit)... the Paramchaitanya will carry that out. It

will do the work. The spiritual vibrations will do the work. It will do the

" Living Work " .

 

Don't you think it is amazing that we can put our attention... direct our

enlightened attention on " some thing " and the Paramchaitanya works it out... it

does the " Living Work " ! And that is why in actuality " You are the Doer "

(referring to these Living Vibrations) is a true affirmation, because you and i

do nothing on the spiritual level (the Level of Spirit)... except to direct our

Pure Desire, our Enlightened Attention on any problem in the world, and the

Paramchaitanya will go where we put our enlightened attention... and works it

out.

 

However, we must then leave it at that. We cannot tell the Paramchaitanya how

the Paramchaitanya has to work this out and what Time Frame it will be. It then

has to be left to the Divine to decide exactly how the Divine will work it out.

 

We may not even see the results of our Pure Desire manifest the way we think it

should; and other times, it may manifest very quickly and be obvious to us. You

see... the Paramchaitanya has to work things out according to the Spiritual Laws

also. For example, the Paramchaitanya cannot force self-realisation on any

person, because they have their free will. Even the paramchaitanya has to

respect a person's free will (if you know what i mean). Working with the

paramchaitanya is really a " co-creation " with the Divine and a natural state

when we are the Spirit and knowledgeable about this fact.

 

You also said:

 

" Then why I need to give 'bandhans' for things I do? As I think giving bandhan

does mean that i want some sort of success in the task/HER attention /want in a

particular way.But why ? If I am just HER instrument and whatever has to

happened is HER Will? "

 

(Pallawi, you are confusing me here. i think you are saying that you are giving

bandhans for what seem to you like selfish reasons to do so, and yet you say

that you need to do so anyway. i don't quite understand this. Can you please

explain so that i can understand better what you are saying and i will be happy

to try and help.)

 

violet

 

 

, pallawi <pallawip

wrote:

>

> I often think and wonder about this and still in search of an

answer.

>

> When I say with great affirmation that 'You are the doer and You

are the enjoyer' which to me means that everything that happens in my

life and around me (mahamaya )is done by HER and definitely for good

whatever I understand the depth of goodness and significance or

not.The success and failures,the happiness and pain ...everything is

indeed the prasad (gift) from my mother.

>

> Then why I need to give 'bandhans' for things I do? As I think

giving bandhan does mean that i want some sort of success in the task/

HER attention /want in a particular way.But why ? If I am just HER

instrument and whatever has to happened is HER Will ?

>

> Jai Shri Mataji

> Pallawi

>

>

>

> Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage

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[Guest guest]

< (Pallawi, you are confusing me here. i think you are saying that you are giving < bandhans for what seem to you like selfish reasons to do so, and yet you say that < you need to do so anyway. i don't quite understand this. Can you please explain so < that i can understand better what you are saying and i will be happy to try and help.) well, I am asking WHY should anybody give bandhan when everything has to happen by HER will.When on one hand I am accepting her Will saying 'you are the doer' then why on other hand I am forcing my own desires by giving bandhans to happen it in any particular way. I am talking about bandhans which are asked by sy to give for people in need or the bandhans we give before we start doing something. Thanks Violet for taking time and helping me out to understand this tough puzzle yet so easy though. It is

tough as long as we involve our brains and logical thinking into that and it becomes easy as soon as we attain that state of enlightenment.I understand that, once I will reach to that state there won't be any question left.Until that either I should try not to use my funny logics or try to accept certain things as hypothesis. Last Friday I read this excerpt of Shrimataji and decided not to think too logically .So in a way my question no more requires any further clarification but would be happy if you can share your thoughts and knowledge. Jai Shri Mataji Pallawi pallawi <pallawip wrote: I often think and wonder about this and still in search of an answer. When I say with great affirmation that 'You are the doer and You are the enjoyer' which to me means that everything that happens in my life and around me (mahamaya )is done by HER and definitely for good whatever I understand the depth of goodness and significance or not.The success and failures,the happiness and pain ...everything is indeed the prasad (gift) from my mother. Then why I need to give 'bandhans' for things I do? As I think giving bandhan does mean that i want some sort of success in the task/HER attention /want in a particular way.But why ? If I am just HER instrument and whatever has

to happened is HER Will ? Jai Shri Mataji Pallawi Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage with All New Mail.

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[Guest guest]

, pallawi <pallawip

wrote:

>

> < (Pallawi, you are confusing me here. i think you are saying that

you are giving

> < bandhans for what seem to you like selfish reasons to do so,

and yet you say that < you need to do so anyway. i don't quite

understand this. Can you please explain so < that i can understand

better what you are saying and i will be happy to try and help.)

>

>

> well, I am asking WHY should anybody give bandhan when everything

has to happen by HER will.

 

(When you say everything has to happen by Her Will, i assume you are talking

about the Will of the Holy Spirit. We have all been given our free will. God

does not force His Will on anyone... least of all through the agency of His Holy

Spirit.

 

It is true, however, that the Creator of the Universe has set spiritual laws

into place and human beings are expected to follow the spiritual laws for their

spiritual sustenance, their spiritual relationships to each other and for the

peace and happiness and proper working order of things. Such laws were given as

the Ten Commandments, which Shri Jesus said basically means: " Love the Lord your

God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and your neighbour as yourself. " ) Any

person that does not follow the Creator's Laws set down will eventually find

themselves in spiritual jeopardy, so in that way... yes... God Almighty's Will

will end up being followed by a person eventually, when they wake up to the fact

and finally realise that their selfish egoic ways only land them into trouble

with themselves and others.)

 

When on one hand I am accepting her Will saying 'you are the doer' then why on

other hand I am forcing my own desires by giving bandhans to happen it in any

particular way.

 

(If you are the Spirit, you are not forcing your own egoic desire on anyone or

anything. Any bandhan you give for anyone or anything is a ritual whereby you

are expressing your pure desire. If your pure desire is not there, then it is an

empty and useless ritual.)

 

> I am talking about bandhans which are asked by sy to give for people in need

or the bandhans we give before we start doing something.

 

(If the pure desire does not accompany the ritual, then it is an empty ritual.

In regards to rituals, i think Jagbir has described these very well. If used

sincerely they work. If used ritualistically... they lose their meaning. Most

Christians and Muslims, for example will not perform any such rituals. However,

if they have the Pure Desire of the Spirit to work things out, which is the

essential ingredient in any ritual. Shri Mataji has taught that it is the Pure

Desire of the Spirit that works things out in the world.)

 

> Thanks Violet for taking time and helping me out to understand

this tough puzzle yet so easy though.

 

(You're welcome. i can only give what is my experience, which is all anyone can

do. We can learn from other people's experiences, but ultimately we have to have

our own spiritual experience to back it up, and these will be different for each

person. That is what makes one's spiritual journey authentic... is their own

spiritual experience. This also involves forging one's own spiritual path in

conjunction with the Light of the Spirit.)

 

> It is tough as long as we involve our brains and logical thinking

into that and it becomes easy as soon as we attain that state of

enlightenment.

 

(There is nothing wrong with having a sense of logic. A sense of logic and

commonsense especially is very important, especially in relation to spiritual

matters. Sahaja Yogis as Jagbir has often pointed out, are steeped in cleansing

rituals, for example. They need to graduate from the 'baby-steps' of rituals to

achieve the Reality of their Spirit. i think Shri Mataji tried to teach people

that, but many got stuck on the first 'baby-steps' and never progressed to the

spiritual maturity that the 'baby-steps' were supposed to lead to. The logic and

commonsense especially has therefore to a large extent been lost. The logic

needs to be there to realise what is spiritual progression. Does it mean that a

person stays stuck at a certain level of feverish cleansing rituals, or does it

mean that... ultimately, there is a Kundalini that will clear and cleanse a

person from within also. If there is a kundalini that does this job from within,

why the increasing ritualistic external practices, which should

logically-speaking diminish as the person evolves spiritually.)

 

I understand that, once I will reach to that state there won't be any question

left.Until that either I should try not to use my funny logics or try to accept

certain things as hypothesis.

 

(Reaching that state of enlightenment means that a person has the Light with

which to See. You are connected to Your Spirit, and therefore you have the Light

to See. It does not mean that you will immediately know all the answers to all

the questions in the whole universe. Only God can ever know everything there is

to know in the whole universe.

 

However, there is nothing wrong with asking questions. Many of these questions,

you can also enquire of your Spirit Within, and in the stillness and quietness

your Spirit will inform you.

 

Altogether... the enlightened 'thought-less' state is so all encompassing of

many things that bear awareness. Shri Mataji describes this state in the

teachings below.

 

violet

 

 

" All that happens in the thoughtless state is enlightened. Light never talks. If

you switch on the light in the room, the light won't speak or give you any

ideas. It would just make everything visible. The same is true about the light

of thoughtlessness. First become thoughtless and then doubtless. Then all your

doubts go and you know that there is some power that works. It works very fast

and is all subtle. You will be amazed how it happens. This is also about time. I

never look at a watch. But my real watch is in the thoughtlessness.

 

If you are thoughtless God takes you everywhere as if on his hands. He makes all

arrangements. He knows everything and there is no need to tell him about

anything. But you must see whether you are in the main stream or not. If you are

not in it then you are stuck up somewhere on the bank; then the current comes

and takes you in twice or thrice, but again you are on the bank. Then you say

'Mataji, nothing goes smoothly for me'. It won't because you are entangled. "

(Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi (Nirmala Yoga, 1982)

 

" Because this mind, which is just a bubble as I told you and is so limited that

it cannot comprehend the beauty, the glory, and the expanse of reality. This

mind is just a collection of all the garbage we should say, which we have to

somehow or other deny and tell ourselves that I have to go beyond my mind. This

so-called mind of mine has done no good for me. This 'mind' of mine which has

been all the time controlling me is just like the watch we have made and which

is controlling us or like the computer that controls us. We have to be careful

that we are the ones who have created this mind and this mind has no business to

control us.

 

Now, once your attention goes beyond the mind-only the Sahaja Yogis will

understand this point very clearly. When this mind goes beyond the thoughts,

then the manipulation of the attention is very important. Then whatever you

manipulate means you take this attention to this or to that. You will be

surprised how dynamic you become, how effective you become and how knowledgeable

you become. Because once you can take this attention to anything you want,

immediately there is light on that issue, on that person, on that problem and

you see how it works out, how it helps. "

(Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, 21.03.1996, Delhi)

 

 

 

> pallawi <pallawip wrote:

> I often think and wonder about this and still in search

of an answer.

>

> When I say with great affirmation that 'You are the doer and You

are the enjoyer' which to me means that everything that happens in my

life and around me (mahamaya )is done by HER and definitely for good

whatever I understand the depth of goodness and significance or

not.The success and failures,the happiness and pain ...everything is

indeed the prasad (gift) from my mother.

>

> Then why I need to give 'bandhans' for things I do? As I think

giving bandhan does mean that i want some sort of success in the task/

HER attention /want in a particular way.But why ? If I am just HER

instrument and whatever has to happened is HER Will ?

>

> Jai Shri Mataji

> Pallawi

>

>

> Inbox full of spam? Get leading spam protection and 1GB storage

with All New Mail.

 

> Photos – NEW, now offering a quality print service from just

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>