Guest guest Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Hello Just have some questions I would like to ask about hypnotherapy. Would be nice to have them answered by yogis who claim to have had it done rather than by people who are just going to jump on the 'Sri Mataji says it is bad' bandwagon without even having tried it for themselves. Somebody I know who has done a lot of Sahaja Yoga but still felt they had some issues has been doing hypnotherapy apparently to great success and would recommend it to anyone. 1) According to Sri Mataji, what exactly goes on when you enter hypnosis/trance? 2) Is it AT ALL possible that hypnotherapy could benefit a practicing yogi in any way i:e perhaps to help deal with outstanding issues related to the sub-conscious which sahaja yoga meditation is not really helping with - because lets face it, sahaja yoga is still full of people with all sorts of problems, they are so away from being balanced AFTER YEARS of meditation that only a minority of yogis have the capability to stand up and talk at meetings or even lead a meditation? Lets be honest here. Many thanks Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 , " adam332412 " <lunduner1 wrote: " Just have some questions I would like to ask about hypnotherapy. Would be nice to have them answered by yogis who claim to have had it done rather than by people who are just going to jump on the 'Sri Mataji says it is bad' bandwagon without even having tried it for themselves. Somebody I know who has done a lot of Sahaja Yoga but still felt they had some issues has been doing hypnotherapy apparently to great success and would recommend it to anyone. " (End Quote) Dear Adam, You have asked important questions. First of all... so everyone understands what " hypnotherapy is " ... here is how wikipedia defines " hypnotherapy " : " Hypnotherapy is the application of hypnosis as a form of treatment, usually for relieving pain or conditions related to one's state of mind. Practitioners believe that when a client enters, or believes he has entered, a state of trance, the patient is more receptive to suggestion and other therapy. The most common use of hypnotherapy is to remedy maladies like obesity, addiction, pain, ego, anxiety, stress, amnesia, phobias, and performance but many others can also be treated by hypnosis, including functional disorders like Irritable Bowel Syndrome. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnotherapy Hypnotherapy is not great mystery. All that really happens is that the practitioner induces the person by way of relaxation techniques to put the person in a relaxed frame of mind. Once the person is in a relaxed frame of mind, and gives the practitioner permission to be subject to the practitioner's positive suggestions, then the practitioner can give these positive suggestions to the client in order to address any problems such as obesity, addiction, pain, ego, anxiety, stress, amnesia, phobias, performance, etc. The way hypnotherapy works is that, in the relaxation phase, the person's mind is bypassed and the hypnotherapist's positive suggestions can most easily and directly go into the computer which we call " the brain " . Hypnotherapy bypasses the normal mental resistance of negative conditionings and ego. The computer which we call " the brain " ... gets positive imput to replace the negative conditionings and ego, which hopefully results in healther psychosomatic functioning. Does the description above have a 'somewhat familiar ring about it'? Is this not what we can achieve for ourselves through Sahaja Yoga? Yes! When we are in meditation, we bypass the " mind " . We use affirmations and mantras to replace our negative conditionings and ego with positive spiritual conditionings. In addition to that... we are connected to the Spirit (our Higher Self) which is Brahman. We have all the power in the world to " transform ourselves from within " ! That is why... in regards to Sahaja Yogis who can work with the divine vibrations and heal themselves through the divine vibrations... there is no reason why they would have need to go to a hypnotherapist, when they can do the same for themselves. Shri Mataji has given all the tools. First She gave self-realisation, and awoke our Spirit. Then She gave us positive affirmations and mantras so we can replace any negative conditionings and ego with positive conditionings. We meditate, and go beyond the conscious mind into collective consciousness. We tap directly into Source for all the help. This is much greater than going to a hypnotherapist. 'That said'... i imagine there are people who are at their 'wit's end' and cannot get over their conditionings and ego on their own without medical help, and therefore go for it. However, those who turn to the Divine Within... they will get all the spiritual help they need to overcome all the obstacles. Here is what Shri Mataji says about the " Union with the Divine " (a.k.a. " Sahaja Yoga " )... and what this spiritual integration (or union) can achieve: " Sahaja Yoga is a Fortress " ... " It's a fortress. But first of all your personality should be such that your devotion is so great that the Divine is compelled to look after you... 'compelled' to look after you. You have to understand that (the) Divine Force is around you and this Divine Force is (an) absolute guarantee for your safety. It looks after your comfort, looks after your health, everything. And this divine help, you do not seek, you do not ask for, but you are a personality for which the Divine is responsible... What are we seeking? We should understand why we were seeking - because we wanted to know ourselves. Somehow, we knew that we have to know ourselves and we did not know. So we seek. We seek. We do all kinds of things... i mean... all wrong things also... in the name of seeking. But (this) is this seeking that brings you to Sahaja Yoga. (Shri Mataji - Guru Puja 2000 - 'Sahaj News' - 5 August 2000) In conclusion, i would say that Sahaja Yogis will most usually not go to a hypnotherapist, especially when they can do the spiritual work themselves, and do not need the help of a hypnotherapist to address their ego and conditionings. However, i realise that this is a medical facility that is available, and people do go to hypnotherapists for help when they cannot overcome their problems any other way. It must be mentioned also... that it is hoped that the hypnotherapist does not abuse the client's trust... because " practitioners believe that when a client enters, or believes he has entered, a state of trance, the patient is more receptive to suggestion " . Shri Mataji has confirmed this too. It is no secret therefore... that Shri Mataji warned Sahaja Yogis against going to hypnotherapists for all the abovementioned reasons. In the final analysis, only " God within " ... " Brahman within " can give complete spiritual liberation or salvation from all psychosomatic problems. Shri Mataji has taught and given all the techniques now for the last thirty years or so. i hope this helps to clarify the issue. violet > Hello > > Just have some questions I would like to ask about hypnotherapy. Would be nice to have > them answered by yogis who claim to have had it done rather than by people who are just > going to jump on the 'Sri Mataji says it is bad' bandwagon without even having tried it for > themselves. Somebody I know who has done a lot of Sahaja Yoga but still felt they had > some issues has been doing hypnotherapy apparently to great success and would > recommend it to anyone. > > > > 1) According to Sri Mataji, what exactly goes on when you enter hypnosis/trance? > > 2) Is it AT ALL possible that hypnotherapy could benefit a practicing yogi in any way i:e > perhaps to help deal with outstanding issues related to the sub- conscious which sahaja > yoga meditation is not really helping with - because lets face it, sahaja yoga is still full of > people with all sorts of problems, they are so away from being balanced AFTER YEARS of > meditation that only a minority of yogis have the capability to stand up and talk at > meetings or even lead a meditation? Lets be honest here. > > > Many thanks > > Adam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Dear Violet Firstly many thanks for taking the time to respond to my first post. I have a few more questions below if you don't mind. " The way hypnotherapy works is that, in the relaxation phase, the person's mind is bypassed and the hypnotherapist's positive suggestions can most easily and directly go into the computer which we call " the brain " . Hypnotherapy bypasses the normal mental resistance of negative conditionings and ego. The computer which we call " the brain " ... gets positive imput to replace the negative conditionings and ego, which hopefully results in healther psychosomatic functioning " (End Quote) I understand why Sahaja yogis usually don't go to see hypnotherapists, I know using Sahaja Yoga it is possible to feel really good and solve many psychosomatic problems. However, the subtle system charts we show at meetings says the kundalini comes up and then we have ALL the qualities manifesting - okay, over time. But I can see people still lack in this chakra or that chakra after years of meditation.... why not try something else to see if it can help? This is why I am asking could hypnotherapy be complimentary to our meditation...for certain individuals? If you meditate also why would hypnotherapy make you worse off? What if your hypnotherapy is done by a realized soul? Is there such a yogi available I wonder? Regarding the above quote: Can I ask what is your opinion on the view that SY is a treatment (..as you have to keep meditating to remain beyond negative conditionings and ego) whilst hypnotherapy is a cure (...as your negative conditionings are dealt with once and for all during a limited number of sessions so you don't need to meditate anymore)? Many thanks Adam , " Violet " <violet.tubb wrote: > > , > " adam332412 " <lunduner1@> wrote: > > " Just have some questions I would like to ask about hypnotherapy. > Would be nice to have them answered by yogis who claim to have had it > done rather than by people who are just going to jump on the 'Sri > Mataji says it is bad' bandwagon without even having tried it for > themselves. Somebody I know who has done a lot of Sahaja Yoga but > still felt they had some issues has been doing hypnotherapy > apparently to great success and would recommend it to anyone. " (End Quote) > > Dear Adam, > > You have asked important questions. > > First of all... so everyone understands what " hypnotherapy is " ... here is how wikipedia defines " hypnotherapy " : > > " Hypnotherapy is the application of hypnosis as a form of treatment, usually for relieving pain or conditions related to one's state of mind. Practitioners believe that when a client enters, or believes he has entered, a state of trance, the patient is more receptive to suggestion and other therapy. The most common use of hypnotherapy is to remedy maladies like obesity, addiction, pain, ego, anxiety, stress, amnesia, phobias, and performance but many others can also be treated by hypnosis, including functional disorders like Irritable Bowel Syndrome. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnotherapy > > Hypnotherapy is not great mystery. All that really happens is that the practitioner induces the person by way of relaxation techniques to put the person in a relaxed frame of mind. Once the person is in a relaxed frame of mind, and gives the practitioner permission to be subject to the practitioner's positive suggestions, then the practitioner can give these positive suggestions to the client in order to address any problems such as obesity, addiction, pain, ego, anxiety, stress, amnesia, phobias, performance, etc. > > The way hypnotherapy works is that, in the relaxation phase, the person's mind is bypassed and the hypnotherapist's positive suggestions can most easily and directly go into the computer which we call " the brain " . Hypnotherapy bypasses the normal mental resistance of negative conditionings and ego. The computer which we call " the brain " ... gets positive imput to replace the negative conditionings and ego, which hopefully results in healther psychosomatic functioning. > > Does the description above have a 'somewhat familiar ring about it'? Is this not what we can achieve for ourselves through Sahaja Yoga? Yes! When we are in meditation, we bypass the " mind " . We use affirmations and mantras to replace our negative conditionings and ego with positive spiritual conditionings. In addition to that... we are connected to the Spirit (our Higher Self) which is Brahman. We have all the power in the world to " transform ourselves from within " ! > > That is why... in regards to Sahaja Yogis who can work with the divine vibrations and heal themselves through the divine vibrations... there is no reason why they would have need to go to a hypnotherapist, when they can do the same for themselves. Shri Mataji has given all the tools. First She gave self-realisation, and awoke our Spirit. Then She gave us positive affirmations and mantras so we can replace any negative conditionings and ego with positive conditionings. We meditate, and go beyond the conscious mind into collective consciousness. We tap directly into Source for all the help. This is much greater than going to a hypnotherapist. > > 'That said'... i imagine there are people who are at their 'wit's end' and cannot get over their conditionings and ego on their own without medical help, and therefore go for it. However, those who turn to the Divine Within... they will get all the spiritual help they need to overcome all the obstacles. > > Here is what Shri Mataji says about the " Union with the Divine " (a.k.a. " Sahaja Yoga " )... and what this spiritual integration (or union) can achieve: > > " Sahaja Yoga is a Fortress " ... > > " It's a fortress. But first of all your personality should be such that your devotion is so great that the Divine is compelled to look after you... 'compelled' to look after you. You have to understand that (the) Divine Force is around you and this Divine Force is (an) absolute guarantee for your safety. It looks after your comfort, looks after your health, everything. And this divine help, you do not seek, you do not ask for, but you are a personality for which the Divine is responsible... What are we seeking? We should understand why we were seeking - because we wanted to know ourselves. Somehow, we knew that we have to know ourselves and we did not know. So we seek. We seek. We do all kinds of things... i mean... all wrong things also... in the name of seeking. But (this) is this seeking that brings you to Sahaja Yoga. (Shri Mataji - Guru Puja 2000 - 'Sahaj News' - 5 August 2000) > > In conclusion, i would say that Sahaja Yogis will most usually not go to a hypnotherapist, especially when they can do the spiritual work themselves, and do not need the help of a hypnotherapist to address their ego and conditionings. However, i realise that this is a medical facility that is available, and people do go to hypnotherapists for help when they cannot overcome their problems any other way. > > It must be mentioned also... that it is hoped that the hypnotherapist does not abuse the client's trust... because " practitioners believe that when a client enters, or believes he has entered, a state of trance, the patient is more receptive to suggestion " . Shri Mataji has confirmed this too. It is no secret therefore... that Shri Mataji warned Sahaja Yogis against going to hypnotherapists for all the abovementioned reasons. > > In the final analysis, only " God within " ... " Brahman within " can give complete spiritual liberation or salvation from all psychosomatic problems. Shri Mataji has taught and given all the techniques now for the last thirty years or so. > > i hope this helps to clarify the issue. > > violet > > > > > Hello > > > > Just have some questions I would like to ask about hypnotherapy. > Would be nice to have > > them answered by yogis who claim to have had it done rather than by > people who are just > > going to jump on the 'Sri Mataji says it is bad' bandwagon without > even having tried it for > > themselves. Somebody I know who has done a lot of Sahaja Yoga but > still felt they had > > some issues has been doing hypnotherapy apparently to great success > and would > > recommend it to anyone. > > > > > > > > 1) According to Sri Mataji, what exactly goes on when you enter > hypnosis/trance? > > > > 2) Is it AT ALL possible that hypnotherapy could benefit a > practicing yogi in any way i:e > > perhaps to help deal with outstanding issues related to the sub- > conscious which sahaja > > yoga meditation is not really helping with - because lets face it, > sahaja yoga is still full of > > people with all sorts of problems, they are so away from being > balanced AFTER YEARS of > > meditation that only a minority of yogis have the capability to > stand up and talk at > > meetings or even lead a meditation? Lets be honest here. > > > > > > Many thanks > > > > Adam > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Meditation versus Hypnotherapy... This is what hypnotherapist... Patrick Porter, PhD, the founder of Positive Changes Hypnosis... has to say on the difference between meditation and hypnotherapy: " Well the biggest difference is that in meditation you are usually seeking a higher power to intervene and assist you or you are just contemplating the vastness of the universe. It's not a real specific thing other than a spiritual-like communion. Hypnosis typically involves something mundane. It has to do with the physical role like weight loss, stopping smoking, or overcoming stress. You could use meditation for the same thing. Physiologically there is no difference, but psychologically there is a difference, because hypnosis doesn't depend on a higher power. " http://beauty.expertvillage.com/experts/meditation-hypnosis.htm Dear Adam, To the above quote... i would like to add that Sahaja Yoga is not just meditation like all other meditations either. Sahaja Yoga is about Union with the Divine. It is about kundalini awakening. And with kundalini (coiled energy) we are talking about the greatest power for inner transformation and spiritual liberation. i personally experienced when helping to raise the kundalini of others at a Body-Mind-Spirit Festival, that some of the people had taken an Aura Photograph at the Aura Photograph Stall next to us, before they had their self-realisation at our SY Stall. We were curious, so asked them to get their photograph taken after they had their self-realisation... which 3 people did. In each case, the Aura Photograph went from different colours to Pure White. A white aura is the aura colour of a saint as you see in religious paintings of saints. That is the power of kundalini. What this white aura indicates is that you have been connected to the Divine Power. What you do with that is another matter. Normally people did not have kundalini awakening before they had virtually become saints with all their austerities, and inner contemplations and spiritual seekings... but Shri Mataji has intervened and made it possible so that we have our connection first, and She has given all the techniques to use that connection to heal, cleanse, and clear ourselves and to " become the Spirit " and liberate ourselves spiritually. No hypnotherapy can connect you to the Divine. It does not make a saint of a person. It does not give a person the power to heal themselves, nor to become spiritually liberated. Hypnotherapy does not result in the natural blossoming of the spiritual qualities that comes through the Connection with the Divine Spirit Within. Hypnotherapy can claim none of these, because it is done by mere man. Union with the Divine... which is what Sahaja Yoga is... is done by the Divine. Sahaja Yoga is not just a treatment; it is a spiritual way of life with the Divine Within. Being in connection with the Divine within, you get the spiritual help of Shri Mataji, Shri Ganesha, Shri Jesus, Shri Krishna and other deities. This is a Divine Help that is real. However, to get their help (and they are instituted and placed upon your chakras or energy centres)... you need to please them by having good thoughts, good intentions, and leading a moral life. That means you are in tune with their spiritual qualities, and they will help to awaken these spiritual qualities ever more as you pursue your spiritual liberation. i realise that Sahaja Yoga is used as a treatment only by some people, when it is meant for much more. Shri Mataji did not come on Earth just to cure people; She came on Earth to give people their spiritual liberation/salvation/moksha. If a person only uses SY as an external treatment and does not surrender to the Divine to obtain their spiritual liberation at this Resurrection Time, then they are really not understanding SY properly... as Shri Mataji taught it. It is not surprising then, if people do not avail all of the properties of Sahaja Yoga... that their non-wholistic approach does not work out to their best advantage. The thing is... Sahaja Yoga needs a Wholistic Approach, not just a Subtle System Approach. In fact the best approach to Sahaja Yoga is actually to surrender to the Divine, and the Divine works things out 'hand in hand' with you. It is a spiritual cooperation through spiritual integration. If the person just uses Sahaja Yoga as a treatment, and does not surrender to the Divine also, the Divine may become disappointed that a person is searching the cure only... and not seeking to " become One with the Author of All Cures " . The Divine is interested in our spiritual liberation, above all else. Physical cures are a by-product of that... or at the very least... they go 'hand in hand'. Most Sahaja Yogis are very nice people. Each have their spiritual work cut out for them. The more they surrender to the Divine, and integrate with their Higher Spirit, the more things work out for them. Therefore, if you are seeing yogis with lots of problems, that should not put you off, because you can only 'see yourself right' by surrendering to the Divine yourself. Maybe the yogis you refer to are missing that point... which is that the Ultimate Cure is in Surrender to the Divine Within. What i am saying is... that if just externals are focussed upon, and the surrender is not there... then it cannot work out as it really should. When a person surrenders everything, they depend on the Divine for everything too. Can you imagine such a surrender? It usually only happens bit by bit, as each individual problem or thing is surrendered. So... checking other people's spiritual condition... is not going to improve yours. You will not become spiritually liberated, by putting your attention on other people... or their problems. The best thing you can do is to " go within to your own Spirit " . Why don't you just give up your 'bee in the bonnet' about hypnotherapy? If others decide to have hypnotherapy, you have no power to stop that. It is their free will to do so. That does not mean you have to start to do so. i can tell you that hypnotherapy is " nothing " in comparison to what the Divine Within you has to offer. As Patrick Porter states: " Hypnosis, however, does not depend upon a higher power. Hypnosis typically involves something mundane. It has to do with the physical role like weight loss, stopping smoking, or overcoming stress. You could use meditation for the same thing. " Adam... hypnotherapy fails too... if a person does not have the desire or will to replace the negative with the positive. It also requires repeated sessions, plus putting the positive conditionings into practice each day. This is no different to needing repeated sessions of meditation to replace the negative with the positive, plus putting the positive conditionings into practice each day. As hypnotherapist Patrick Porter states: " You could use meditation for the same thing " . So... don't expect yogis to 'go for hypnotherapy' when most are getting the results with the use of Sahaja Yoga Meditation. Sahaja Yogis... even though you think they still have a lot of problems... nevertheless have all been greatly helped in many ways. It is just that there are so many conditionings, and it requires daily surrender to the Divine... which is your Higher Self or Spirit. So... don't expect us to to become enamoured with hypnotherapy, as we have been given all the tools to transform ourselves through Sahaja Yoga. i hope this answer satisfies you, Adam, and gives you a larger and greater perspective of Sahaja Yoga... rather than just being a " cure " . If you have any more questions, feel free. However, i would like to know something. How is your surrender to the Divine going? Have you tried that yet? (You don't need to answer; just answer that to yourself). Because... that is the wholistic approach needed in Sahaja Yoga, that gives many blessings from the Divine. You can start today. Forget about the hypnotherapy idea. Your friend obviously just had more trust in a hypnotherapy session than in their own power of the Divine Within. And just do meditation instead to achieve the same results. Really get down to your own spiritual work...okay. i encourage you in that. You don't need a hypotherapist for that. with love and best wishes, violet , " adam332412 " <lunduner1 wrote: > > Dear Violet > > Firstly many thanks for taking the time to respond to my first post. I have a few more questions below if you don't mind. > > " The way hypnotherapy works is that, in the relaxation phase, the person's mind is bypassed and the hypnotherapist's positive suggestions can most easily and directly go into the computer which we call " the brain " . Hypnotherapy bypasses the normal mental > resistance of negative conditionings and ego. The computer which we call " the brain " ... gets positive imput to replace the negative conditionings and ego, which hopefully results in healther psychosomatic functioning " (End Quote) > > I understand why Sahaja yogis usually don't go to see hypnotherapists, I know using Sahaja Yoga it is possible to feel really good and solve many psychosomatic problems. > However, the subtle system charts we show at meetings says the kundalini comes up and then we have ALL the qualities manifesting - okay, over time. But I can see people still lack in this chakra or that chakra after years of meditation.... why not try something else to see if it can help? This is why I am asking could hypnotherapy be complimentary to our meditation...for certain individuals? If you meditate also why would hypnotherapy make you worse off? What if your hypnotherapy is done by a realized soul? Is there such a yogi > available I wonder? > > Regarding the above quote: > Can I ask what is your opinion on the view that SY is a treatment (..as you have to keep meditating to remain beyond negative conditionings and ego) whilst hypnotherapy is a cure (...as your negative conditionings are dealt with once and for all during a limited number of sessions so you don't need to meditate anymore)? > > Many thanks > > Adam > , " Violet " <violet.tubb@> wrote: > > > > , > > " adam332412 " <lunduner1@> wrote: > > > > " Just have some questions I would like to ask about hypnotherapy. > > Would be nice to have them answered by yogis who claim to have had it > > done rather than by people who are just going to jump on the 'Sri > > Mataji says it is bad' bandwagon without even having tried it for > > themselves. Somebody I know who has done a lot of Sahaja Yoga but > > still felt they had some issues has been doing hypnotherapy > > apparently to great success and would recommend it to anyone. " (End Quote) > > > > Dear Adam, > > > > You have asked important questions. > > > > First of all... so everyone understands what " hypnotherapy is " ... here is how wikipedia > defines " hypnotherapy " : > > > > " Hypnotherapy is the application of hypnosis as a form of treatment, usually for > relieving pain or conditions related to one's state of mind. Practitioners believe that when > a client enters, or believes he has entered, a state of trance, the patient is more receptive > to suggestion and other therapy. The most common use of hypnotherapy is to remedy > maladies like obesity, addiction, pain, ego, anxiety, stress, amnesia, phobias, and > performance but many others can also be treated by hypnosis, including functional > disorders like Irritable Bowel Syndrome. " http://en.wikipedia.org/ wiki/Hypnotherapy > > > > Hypnotherapy is not great mystery. All that really happens is that the practitioner > induces the person by way of relaxation techniques to put the person in a relaxed frame of > mind. Once the person is in a relaxed frame of mind, and gives the practitioner permission > to be subject to the practitioner's positive suggestions, then the practitioner can give > these positive suggestions to the client in order to address any problems such as obesity, > addiction, pain, ego, anxiety, stress, amnesia, phobias, performance, etc. > > > > The way hypnotherapy works is that, in the relaxation phase, the person's mind is > bypassed and the hypnotherapist's positive suggestions can most easily and directly go > into the computer which we call " the brain " . Hypnotherapy bypasses the normal mental > resistance of negative conditionings and ego. The computer which we call " the brain " ... > gets positive imput to replace the negative conditionings and ego, which hopefully results > in healther psychosomatic functioning. > > > > Does the description above have a 'somewhat familiar ring about it'? Is this not what we > can achieve for ourselves through Sahaja Yoga? Yes! When we are in meditation, we bypass > the " mind " . We use affirmations and mantras to replace our negative conditionings and > ego with positive spiritual conditionings. In addition to that... we are connected to the > Spirit (our Higher Self) which is Brahman. We have all the power in the world to " transform > ourselves from within " ! > > > > That is why... in regards to Sahaja Yogis who can work with the divine vibrations and > heal themselves through the divine vibrations... there is no reason why they would have > need to go to a hypnotherapist, when they can do the same for themselves. Shri Mataji has > given all the tools. First She gave self-realisation, and awoke our Spirit. Then She gave us > positive affirmations and mantras so we can replace any negative conditionings and ego > with positive conditionings. We meditate, and go beyond the conscious mind into > collective consciousness. We tap directly into Source for all the help. This is much greater > than going to a hypnotherapist. > > > > 'That said'... i imagine there are people who are at their 'wit's end' and cannot get over > their conditionings and ego on their own without medical help, and therefore go for it. > However, those who turn to the Divine Within... they will get all the spiritual help they need > to overcome all the obstacles. > > > > Here is what Shri Mataji says about the " Union with the Divine " (a.k.a. " Sahaja Yoga " )... > and what this spiritual integration (or union) can achieve: > > > > " Sahaja Yoga is a Fortress " ... > > > > " It's a fortress. But first of all your personality should be such that your devotion is so > great that the Divine is compelled to look after you... 'compelled' to look after you. You > have to understand that (the) Divine Force is around you and this Divine Force is (an) > absolute guarantee for your safety. It looks after your comfort, looks after your health, > everything. And this divine help, you do not seek, you do not ask for, but you are a > personality for which the Divine is responsible... What are we seeking? We should > understand why we were seeking - because we wanted to know ourselves. Somehow, we > knew that we have to know ourselves and we did not know. So we seek. We seek. We do all > kinds of things... i mean... all wrong things also... in the name of seeking. But (this) is this > seeking that brings you to Sahaja Yoga. (Shri Mataji - Guru Puja 2000 - 'Sahaj News' - 5 > August 2000) > > > > In conclusion, i would say that Sahaja Yogis will most usually not go to a > hypnotherapist, especially when they can do the spiritual work themselves, and do not > need the help of a hypnotherapist to address their ego and conditionings. However, i > realise that this is a medical facility that is available, and people do go to hypnotherapists > for help when they cannot overcome their problems any other way. > > > > It must be mentioned also... that it is hoped that the hypnotherapist does not abuse the > client's trust... because " practitioners believe that when a client enters, or believes he has > entered, a state of trance, the patient is more receptive to suggestion " . Shri Mataji has > confirmed this too. It is no secret therefore... that Shri Mataji warned Sahaja Yogis against > going to hypnotherapists for all the abovementioned reasons. > > > > In the final analysis, only " God within " ... " Brahman within " can give complete spiritual > liberation or salvation from all psychosomatic problems. Shri Mataji has taught and given > all the techniques now for the last thirty years or so. > > > > i hope this helps to clarify the issue. > > > > violet > > > > > > > > > Hello > > > > > > Just have some questions I would like to ask about hypnotherapy. > > Would be nice to have > > > them answered by yogis who claim to have had it done rather than by > > people who are just > > > going to jump on the 'Sri Mataji says it is bad' bandwagon without > > even having tried it for > > > themselves. Somebody I know who has done a lot of Sahaja Yoga but > > still felt they had > > > some issues has been doing hypnotherapy apparently to great success > > and would > > > recommend it to anyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) According to Sri Mataji, what exactly goes on when you enter > > hypnosis/trance? > > > > > > 2) Is it AT ALL possible that hypnotherapy could benefit a > > practicing yogi in any way i:e > > > perhaps to help deal with outstanding issues related to the sub- > > conscious which sahaja > > > yoga meditation is not really helping with - because lets face it, > > sahaja yoga is still full of > > > people with all sorts of problems, they are so away from being > > balanced AFTER YEARS of > > > meditation that only a minority of yogis have the capability to > > stand up and talk at > > > meetings or even lead a meditation? Lets be honest here. > > > > > > > > > Many thanks > > > > > > Adam > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 Dear Violet I am well versed with SY teachings and experience too. I have experienced a transformation in the last 4 years and behave in a way today I was unable to before, because I found SY. However, my experience is that SY can not make me feel 'normal' on its own. I have to do other activities also to feel how I want to feel, so I disagree with yogis who say all you need is SY to get all the spiritual help you need. I have actually been to pujas and felt quite terrible in myself when I had a period just doing SY treatments - because people like yourself told me it is all I need.......those who feel SY makes them feel 'in the kingdom of God' would speak the way you do, but if you still feel you have problems that worshipping Sri Mataji can't help with, anyone would consider other treatments/help. I am not trying to devalue SY and say hypnotherapy is better but trying to analyze why yogis like yourself refuse to recommend anything else...it's almost like yogis have become conditioned themselves with SY and that nothing else exists! Like I said, I'm not saying don't do SY.....but why on earth not try additional things also if SY isn't the whole ticket for you? I think telling people it is just a case of worshipping the divine more and more will cause psychological problems for some individuals when the solution to their problems may lie within alternative treatments/practices. If hypnotherapy is " nothing " in comparison to what the Divine Within you has to offer, then what is the harm in trying it? Surely you'll just waste your cash and then go back to meditating as usual?? I posted here because I wanted to see if there were other yogis who feel hypnotherapy could be helpful but I get the impression they dare not expose themselves on this forum hehehehe! Please send me a personal e-mail if you don't wish to post here. As for how is my surrender to the Divine going? Well it was going okay until I started to feel unconfident in myself and realized SY meditation can only help some of my chakras to put it in SY terms. All of you surrender to the divine within when you feel in thoughtless awareness (the kingdom of God to quote Sri Mataji) you wouldn't do it if you still feel screwed up after meditating - I wonder how many yogis have actually EVER felt 'screwed up' to begin with so they just can't relate? Violet & others, you just have to appreciate, SY methods might not be enough for everyone...just defending SY non-stop to me seems bordering on 'cultish'. How do you know that my friend's (or mine or anyone's) path further INTO SY is actually SUPPOSED to be via hypnotherapy, that he is supposed to try it, so later on his understanding of SY is greater? So that telling him not to do it is actually contrary to the divines intention for him? You see what I mean? Anyway, many thanks for taking the time to do the research into hypnotherapy you have done online and replying to me, I really appreciate it. Love Adam , " Violet " <violet.tubb wrote: > > Meditation versus Hypnotherapy... > > This is what hypnotherapist... Patrick Porter, PhD, the founder of Positive Changes Hypnosis... has to say on the difference between meditation and hypnotherapy: > > " Well the biggest difference is that in meditation you are usually seeking a higher power to intervene and assist you or you are just contemplating the vastness of the universe. It's not a real specific thing other than a spiritual-like communion. Hypnosis typically involves something mundane. It has to do with the physical role like weight loss, stopping smoking, or overcoming stress. You could use meditation for the same thing. Physiologically there is no difference, but psychologically there is a difference, because hypnosis doesn't depend on a higher power. " > > http://beauty.expertvillage.com/experts/meditation-hypnosis.htm > > > Dear Adam, > > To the above quote... i would like to add that Sahaja Yoga is not just meditation like all other meditations either. Sahaja Yoga is about Union with the Divine. It is about kundalini awakening. And with kundalini (coiled energy) we are talking about the greatest power for inner transformation and spiritual liberation. > > i personally experienced when helping to raise the kundalini of others at a Body-Mind- Spirit Festival, that some of the people had taken an Aura Photograph at the Aura Photograph Stall next to us, before they had their self-realisation at our SY Stall. We were curious, so asked them to get their photograph taken after they had their self- realisation... which 3 people did. In each case, the Aura Photograph went from different colours to Pure White. > > A white aura is the aura colour of a saint as you see in religious paintings of saints. That is the power of kundalini. What this white aura indicates is that you have been connected to the Divine Power. What you do with that is another matter. Normally people did not have kundalini awakening before they had virtually become saints with all their austerities, and inner contemplations and spiritual seekings... but Shri Mataji has intervened and made it possible so that we have our connection first, and She has given all the techniques to use that connection to heal, cleanse, and clear ourselves and to " become the Spirit " and liberate ourselves spiritually. > > No hypnotherapy can connect you to the Divine. It does not make a saint of a person. It does not give a person the power to heal themselves, nor to become spiritually liberated. Hypnotherapy does not result in the natural blossoming of the spiritual qualities that comes through the Connection with the Divine Spirit Within. Hypnotherapy can claim none of these, because it is done by mere man. > > Union with the Divine... which is what Sahaja Yoga is... is done by the Divine. Sahaja Yoga is not just a treatment; it is a spiritual way of life with the Divine Within. Being in connection with the Divine within, you get the spiritual help of Shri Mataji, Shri Ganesha, Shri Jesus, Shri Krishna and other deities. This is a Divine Help that is real. > > However, to get their help (and they are instituted and placed upon your chakras or energy centres)... you need to please them by having good thoughts, good intentions, and leading a moral life. That means you are in tune with their spiritual qualities, and they will help to awaken these spiritual qualities ever more as you pursue your spiritual liberation. > > i realise that Sahaja Yoga is used as a treatment only by some people, when it is meant for much more. Shri Mataji did not come on Earth just to cure people; She came on Earth to give people their spiritual liberation/salvation/moksha. If a person only uses SY as an external treatment and does not surrender to the Divine to obtain their spiritual liberation at this Resurrection Time, then they are really not understanding SY properly... as Shri Mataji taught it. It is not surprising then, if people do not avail all of the properties of Sahaja Yoga... that their non-wholistic approach does not work out to their best advantage. The thing is... Sahaja Yoga needs a Wholistic Approach, not just a Subtle System Approach. > > In fact the best approach to Sahaja Yoga is actually to surrender to the Divine, and the Divine works things out 'hand in hand' with you. It is a spiritual cooperation through spiritual integration. If the person just uses Sahaja Yoga as a treatment, and does not surrender to the Divine also, the Divine may become disappointed that a person is searching the cure only... and not seeking to " become One with the Author of All Cures " . The Divine is interested in our spiritual liberation, above all else. Physical cures are a by- product of that... or at the very least... they go 'hand in hand'. > > Most Sahaja Yogis are very nice people. Each have their spiritual work cut out for them. The more they surrender to the Divine, and integrate with their Higher Spirit, the more things work out for them. Therefore, if you are seeing yogis with lots of problems, that should not put you off, because you can only 'see yourself right' by surrendering to the Divine yourself. Maybe the yogis you refer to are missing that point... which is that the Ultimate Cure is in Surrender to the Divine Within. What i am saying is... that if just externals are focussed upon, and the surrender is not there... then it cannot work out as it really should. When a person surrenders everything, they depend on the Divine for everything too. Can you imagine such a surrender? It usually only happens bit by bit, as each individual problem or thing is surrendered. > > So... checking other people's spiritual condition... is not going to improve yours. You will not become spiritually liberated, by putting your attention on other people... or their problems. The best thing you can do is to " go within to your own Spirit " . Why don't you just give up your 'bee in the bonnet' about hypnotherapy? If others decide to have hypnotherapy, you have no power to stop that. It is their free will to do so. That does not mean you have to start to do so. i can tell you that hypnotherapy is " nothing " in comparison to what the Divine Within you has to offer. As Patrick Porter states: > > " Hypnosis, however, does not depend upon a higher power. Hypnosis typically involves something mundane. It has to do with the physical role like weight loss, stopping smoking, or overcoming stress. You could use meditation for the same thing. " > > Adam... hypnotherapy fails too... if a person does not have the desire or will to replace the negative with the positive. It also requires repeated sessions, plus putting the positive conditionings into practice each day. This is no different to needing repeated sessions of meditation to replace the negative with the positive, plus putting the positive conditionings into practice each day. > > As hypnotherapist Patrick Porter states: > > " You could use meditation for the same thing " . > > So... don't expect yogis to 'go for hypnotherapy' when most are getting the results with the use of Sahaja Yoga Meditation. Sahaja Yogis... even though you think they still have a lot of problems... nevertheless have all been greatly helped in many ways. It is just that there are so many conditionings, and it requires daily surrender to the Divine... which is your Higher Self or Spirit. So... don't expect us to to become enamoured with hypnotherapy, as we have been given all the tools to transform ourselves through Sahaja Yoga. > > i hope this answer satisfies you, Adam, and gives you a larger and greater perspective of Sahaja Yoga... rather than just being a " cure " . If you have any more questions, feel free. However, i would like to know something. How is your surrender to the Divine going? Have you tried that yet? (You don't need to answer; just answer that to yourself). Because... that is the wholistic approach needed in Sahaja Yoga, that gives many blessings from the Divine. You can start today. Forget about the hypnotherapy idea. Your friend obviously just had more trust in a hypnotherapy session than in their own power of the Divine Within. And just do meditation instead to achieve the same results. Really get down to your own spiritual work...okay. i encourage you in that. You don't need a hypotherapist for that. > > with love and best wishes, > > violet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 , " adam332412 " <lunduner1 wrote: Adam: I am well versed with SY teachings and experience too. I have experienced a transformation in the last 4 years and behave in a way today I was unable to before, because I found SY. (Adam, that's great that you have had so much help in the last 4 years so that you feel so much transformed.) Adam: However, my experience is that SY can not make me feel 'normal' on its own. (This is true. Only " you " can make " you " feel normal on its own. This can only happen by becoming your " best " self, which is your Higher Self or Spirit. That is the only way " you, individually " can make Sahaja Yoga work for you, Adam. You need to become your own best master, your own best teacher, and your own best guru. It does not help to judge others. Rather, the best thing is to judge yourself 'how you are inside of you'.... because it is all about " you " and not about the " other person " . What you get out of your own Union with the Divine depends upon what you do with that relationship... and not what other Sahaja Yogis do. You will never improve that relationship by judging others on their's. Rather, it will spoil yours, because underneath every person... is the Same Spirit... when it comes down to it. When you judge others, you are actually judging yourself too... did you know that? One day... you will realise that. It is a deep knowledge within, that will reveal that to you.) Adam: I have to do other activities also to feel how I want to feel, (Yes, we all need to take a walk, have a 'cuppa' (Aussie word for having a cup of coffee) with a friend or family member, read a good book, go to see a movie, have a hobby interest, have a positive outlook, have people over, have fun... all the normal things that we human beings enjoy. Or were you referring to something else altogether?) Adam: So I disagree with yogis who say all you need is SY to get all the spiritual help you need. (If by " Sahaja Yoga " you mean treatments, then you will not get all the help you need through treatments alone. However, if by " Sahaja Yoga " you mean your own union with your Spirit, which is the Divine part inside of your self.... then " yes " ... " Spirit " is the " Source " of everything. " Material " is not the Source, but " Spirit " is the Source of everything. However, you have to learn to access Spirit... okay. That is where you are having problems... but not a lot. You just need more confidence, from what you say.) Adam: I have actually been to pujas and felt quite terrible in myself when I had a period just doing SY treatments - because people like yourself told me it is all I need. (Pardon? i have never told you that external treatments will sort out your problems, Adam. Please do not put words into my mouth that i never said. As i just said above, it is about your own relationship with the Spirit, which is the Divine part within your own self. If you are just doing feverish external treatments without involving your divinity (divine Self) in it... i am not surprised you are feeling " quite terrible " !) Adam: .......those who feel SY makes them feel 'in the kingdom of God' would speak the way you do (There is no feeling like the feeling of being in the kingdom of God, Adam. i am sure you really want that feeling too. You just can't beat it. It is the greatest adrenalin rush (which i know is probably not the best way to 'put it'. But you know... i get more out of this feeling than any external material temporary happiness. It is a steady joy within. Don't " knock it " if you " want it also " .) Adam: " but if you still feel you have problems that worshipping Sri Mataji can't help with " (Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi is the Incarnation of the Holy Spirit within you, who is called " Shri Lalita Devi " . It is Shri Lalita Devi who is the Eternal Mother that you worship in your own Temple of the Holy Spirit within. She is your very own Higher Self, or Spirit. Do you understand this, Adam? Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi incarnated to introduce us to Her, Our Mother Within. Perhaps this " mental knowledge " will help you to get a more accurate perspective on things: " Sahaja Yoga is to be mentally understood and is practised by the heart. For some people it is the other way round. There should be no hypocrisy about the knowledge. If someone in the group finds out or experiences anything subtle, it should be listened to and very much appreciated by the leader and the group. " (First small English book/Chapter 5 - " The Leader in Sahaja Yoga " - by Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi) Adam: anyone would consider other treatments/help. (Anyone would consider other treatments/help if they needed it. Many Sahaja Yogis go to doctors and have medical treatments for various complaints.) Adam: I am not trying to devalue SY and say hypnotherapy is better. (You could never devalue Sahaja Yoga, Adam. You can only devalue yourself. Once you really know what Sahaja Yoga is about, you will not devalue it, because you will realise it is about yourself.) Adam: But trying to analyze why yogis like yourself refuse to recommend anything else. (You will be better to stop analysing others and " go within " yourself. Then you will find out why yogis do not recommend hypnotherapy, because they get all that and more... when they introspect and " go within " . You could say that through their 'en-light-en-ment' they can see what is wrong and how to fix it. Who needs a hypnotherapist when you can fix yourself!) Adam: it's almost like yogis have become conditioned themselves with SY and that nothing else exists! (If you want to change the world... you have to start with yourself first. You cannot change others. You can only change yourself.) Adam: Like I said, I'm not saying don't do SY.....but why on earth not try additional things also if SY isn't the whole ticket for you? (Sahaja Yoga is not about doing. It is about " being " . The " doing " comes as a natural result of connection to your " Being " . The " doing itself " will never eventuate into the " Being " . Only the person themselves can ever become their " Being " or Higher Self/Spirit and it has nothing to do with 'trying additional things'.) Adam: I think telling people it is just a case of worshipping the divine more and more will cause psychological problems for some individuals when the solution to their problems may lie within alternative treatments/practices. (Worship of God is an individual thing. It cannot be forced. i have not heard of anyone forcing people to worship God. i really do not understand what you are talking about... Adam. Are you saying that someone is forcing you to worship God... or something? i don't know how that is possible. In any case, God would loathe forced worship'. And secondly, true worship is a spontaneous thing that comes from the heart. Anything less.... is not " true worship " . You are just not making much sense here!) Adam: If hypnotherapy is " nothing " in comparison to what the Divine Within you has to offer, then what is the harm in trying it? Surely you'll just waste your cash and then go back to meditating as usual?? I posted here because I wanted to see if there were other yogis who feel hypnotherapy could be helpful but I get the impression they dare not expose themselves on this forum hehehehe! Please send me a personal e-mail if you don't wish to post here. (Adam, i am really beginning to doubt your sincerity now. Either you go for it, or you don't. You can't sit on the fence with Sahaja Yoga and expect it to work.) Adam: As for how is my surrender to the Divine going? Well it was going okay until I started to feel unconfident in myself and realized SY meditation can only help some of my chakras to put it in SY terms. " We must understand why we are not progressing. Actually arrogance comes to people who lack self-confidence. Self-confidence is shattered in people whose Self is not manifesting. Let your Self manifest. When the Self is not manifesting, you get all kinds of problems, and then you complain. Actually the problem resides within you. It is God who has to complain. Think of it. The One who has created this universe, the One who has created you all with such love and affection, the One who has given you everything under the sun, also the One who has given you realisation, given you light ; - everything that is possible. And you are complaining against Him? You should not. Complain about 'yourself', that " I am not alright, I should be alright. " Complain about it. Face yourself. " (Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi - Hampstead, England - 17 October, 1982) violet Dear Violet > > I am well versed with SY teachings and experience too. I have experienced a > transformation in the last 4 years and behave in a way today I was unable to before, > because I found SY. However, my experience is that SY can not make me feel 'normal' on > its own. I have to do other activities also to feel how I want to feel, so I disagree with yogis > who say all you need is SY to get all the spiritual help you need. I have actually been to > pujas and felt quite terrible in myself when I had a period just doing SY treatments - > because people like yourself told me it is all I need.......those who feel SY makes them feel > 'in the kingdom of God' would speak the way you do, but if you still feel you have > problems that worshipping Sri Mataji can't help with, anyone would consider other > treatments/help. I am not trying to devalue SY and say hypnotherapy is better but trying to > analyze why yogis like yourself refuse to recommend anything else...it's almost like yogis > have become conditioned themselves with SY and that nothing else exists! Like I said, I'm > not saying don't do SY.....but why on earth not try additional things also if SY isn't the > whole ticket for you? I think telling people it is just a case of worshipping the divine more > and more will cause psychological problems for some individuals when the solution to > their problems may lie within alternative treatments/practices. If hypnotherapy is > " nothing " in comparison to what the Divine Within you has to offer, then what is the harm > in trying it? Surely you'll just waste your cash and then go back to meditating as usual?? I > posted here because I wanted to see if there were other yogis who feel hypnotherapy could > be helpful but I get the impression they dare not expose themselves on this forum > hehehehe! Please send me a personal e-mail if you don't wish to post here. > > As for how is my surrender to the Divine going? Well it was going okay until I started to > feel unconfident in myself and realized SY meditation can only help some of my chakras to > put it in SY terms. All of you surrender to the divine within when you feel in thoughtless > awareness (the kingdom of God to quote Sri Mataji) you wouldn't do it if you still feel > screwed up after meditating - I wonder how many yogis have actually EVER felt 'screwed > up' to begin with so they just can't relate? Violet & others, you just have to appreciate, SY > methods might not be enough for everyone...just defending SY non- stop to me seems > bordering on 'cultish'. How do you know that my friend's (or mine or anyone's) path > further INTO SY is actually SUPPOSED to be via hypnotherapy, that he is supposed to try it, > so later on his understanding of SY is greater? So that telling him not to do it is actually > contrary to the divines intention for him? You see what I mean? > > Anyway, many thanks for taking the time to do the research into hypnotherapy you have > done online and replying to me, I really appreciate it. > > Love Adam > > > > > , " Violet " <violet.tubb@> wrote: > > > > Meditation versus Hypnotherapy... > > > > This is what hypnotherapist... Patrick Porter, PhD, the founder of Positive Changes > Hypnosis... has to say on the difference between meditation and hypnotherapy: > > > > " Well the biggest difference is that in meditation you are usually seeking a higher power > to intervene and assist you or you are just contemplating the vastness of the universe. It's > not a real specific thing other than a spiritual-like communion. Hypnosis typically involves > something mundane. It has to do with the physical role like weight loss, stopping > smoking, or overcoming stress. You could use meditation for the same thing. > Physiologically there is no difference, but psychologically there is a difference, because > hypnosis doesn't depend on a higher power. " > > > > http://beauty.expertvillage.com/experts/meditation-hypnosis.htm > > > > > > Dear Adam, > > > > To the above quote... i would like to add that Sahaja Yoga is not just meditation like all > other meditations either. Sahaja Yoga is about Union with the Divine. It is about kundalini > awakening. And with kundalini (coiled energy) we are talking about the greatest power for > inner transformation and spiritual liberation. > > > > i personally experienced when helping to raise the kundalini of others at a Body-Mind- > Spirit Festival, that some of the people had taken an Aura Photograph at the Aura > Photograph Stall next to us, before they had their self-realisation at our SY Stall. We were > curious, so asked them to get their photograph taken after they had their self- > realisation... which 3 people did. In each case, the Aura Photograph went from different > colours to Pure White. > > > > A white aura is the aura colour of a saint as you see in religious paintings of saints. That > is the power of kundalini. What this white aura indicates is that you have been connected > to the Divine Power. What you do with that is another matter. Normally people did not > have kundalini awakening before they had virtually become saints with all their austerities, > and inner contemplations and spiritual seekings... but Shri Mataji has intervened and made > it possible so that we have our connection first, and She has given all the techniques to > use that connection to heal, cleanse, and clear ourselves and to " become the Spirit " and > liberate ourselves spiritually. > > > > No hypnotherapy can connect you to the Divine. It does not make a saint of a person. It > does not give a person the power to heal themselves, nor to become spiritually liberated. > Hypnotherapy does not result in the natural blossoming of the spiritual qualities that > comes through the Connection with the Divine Spirit Within. Hypnotherapy can claim none > of these, because it is done by mere man. > > > > Union with the Divine... which is what Sahaja Yoga is... is done by the Divine. Sahaja > Yoga is not just a treatment; it is a spiritual way of life with the Divine Within. Being in > connection with the Divine within, you get the spiritual help of Shri Mataji, Shri Ganesha, > Shri Jesus, Shri Krishna and other deities. This is a Divine Help that is real. > > > > However, to get their help (and they are instituted and placed upon your chakras or > energy centres)... you need to please them by having good thoughts, good intentions, and > leading a moral life. That means you are in tune with their spiritual qualities, and they will > help to awaken these spiritual qualities ever more as you pursue your spiritual liberation. > > > > i realise that Sahaja Yoga is used as a treatment only by some people, when it is meant > for much more. Shri Mataji did not come on Earth just to cure people; She came on Earth > to give people their spiritual liberation/salvation/moksha. If a person only uses SY as an > external treatment and does not surrender to the Divine to obtain their spiritual liberation > at this Resurrection Time, then they are really not understanding SY properly... as Shri > Mataji taught it. It is not surprising then, if people do not avail all of the properties of > Sahaja Yoga... that their non-wholistic approach does not work out to their best > advantage. The thing is... Sahaja Yoga needs a Wholistic Approach, not just a Subtle > System Approach. > > > > In fact the best approach to Sahaja Yoga is actually to surrender to the Divine, and the > Divine works things out 'hand in hand' with you. It is a spiritual cooperation through > spiritual integration. If the person just uses Sahaja Yoga as a treatment, and does not > surrender to the Divine also, the Divine may become disappointed that a person is > searching the cure only... and not seeking to " become One with the Author of All Cures " . > The Divine is interested in our spiritual liberation, above all else. Physical cures are a by- > product of that... or at the very least... they go 'hand in hand'. > > > > Most Sahaja Yogis are very nice people. Each have their spiritual work cut out for them. > The more they surrender to the Divine, and integrate with their Higher Spirit, the more > things work out for them. Therefore, if you are seeing yogis with lots of problems, that > should not put you off, because you can only 'see yourself right' by surrendering to the > Divine yourself. Maybe the yogis you refer to are missing that point... which is that the > Ultimate Cure is in Surrender to the Divine Within. What i am saying is... that if just > externals are focussed upon, and the surrender is not there... then it cannot work out as it > really should. When a person surrenders everything, they depend on the Divine for > everything too. Can you imagine such a surrender? It usually only happens bit by bit, as > each individual problem or thing is surrendered. > > > > So... checking other people's spiritual condition... is not going to improve yours. You > will not become spiritually liberated, by putting your attention on other people... or their > problems. The best thing you can do is to " go within to your own Spirit " . Why don't you > just give up your 'bee in the bonnet' about hypnotherapy? If others decide to have > hypnotherapy, you have no power to stop that. It is their free will to do so. That does not > mean you have to start to do so. i can tell you that hypnotherapy is " nothing " in > comparison to what the Divine Within you has to offer. As Patrick Porter states: > > > > " Hypnosis, however, does not depend upon a higher power. Hypnosis typically involves > something mundane. It has to do with the physical role like weight loss, stopping > smoking, or overcoming stress. You could use meditation for the same thing. " > > > > Adam... hypnotherapy fails too... if a person does not have the desire or will to replace > the negative with the positive. It also requires repeated sessions, plus putting the positive > conditionings into practice each day. This is no different to needing repeated sessions of > meditation to replace the negative with the positive, plus putting the positive > conditionings into practice each day. > > > > As hypnotherapist Patrick Porter states: > > > > " You could use meditation for the same thing " . > > > > So... don't expect yogis to 'go for hypnotherapy' when most are getting the results with > the use of Sahaja Yoga Meditation. Sahaja Yogis... even though you think they still have a > lot of problems... nevertheless have all been greatly helped in many ways. It is just that > there are so many conditionings, and it requires daily surrender to the Divine... which is > your Higher Self or Spirit. So... don't expect us to to become enamoured with > hypnotherapy, as we have been given all the tools to transform ourselves through Sahaja > Yoga. > > > > i hope this answer satisfies you, Adam, and gives you a larger and greater perspective of > Sahaja Yoga... rather than just being a " cure " . If you have any more questions, feel free. > However, i would like to know something. How is your surrender to the Divine going? Have > you tried that yet? (You don't need to answer; just answer that to yourself). Because... that > is the wholistic approach needed in Sahaja Yoga, that gives many blessings from the > Divine. You can start today. Forget about the hypnotherapy idea. Your friend obviously just > had more trust in a hypnotherapy session than in their own power of the Divine Within. > And just do meditation instead to achieve the same results. Really get down to your own > spiritual work...okay. i encourage you in that. You don't need a hypotherapist for that. > > > > with love and best wishes, > > > > violet > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Dear Adam, The blind faith of the vast majority of subtle system SYs over time gives way, for a few, to wisdom and balance. Chances are you will always find far more conditioned SYs for the rest of your life than meet those souls who are not diseased by the Sahaja Yoga Subtle System Religion. i can almost visualize SYs shoebeating Mother Earth sore with that of mental patients needing restraining for their own welfare and sanity. The treatment disease has now mutated into a mental monster that has all but brought Sahaja Yoga to its knees. i have always insisted that treatments should only be used if there is something SERIOUSLY wrong. It is just like finding out you have diabetes and trying SY treatments out. But as soon as you realize it is not working, which should not take more than a few weeks, go and see a doctor right away. If the doctor cannot help try homeopathy or acupuncture or herbal cures. You discard the SY treatments completely and try ANYTHING that helps. This approach applies to ALL situations. Frankly, there are very few diseases that Sahaja Yoga can cure despite all their claims. It bestows untold wonders and unbelievable miracles for spiritual evolution, enlightenment and peace of mind, not body. That being the case, you should not even bother checking for SY treatments. Shri Mataji takes western medication for Her diabetes. She did not follow the false advertisment of SYs: " Medically as such there is no cure to Diabetes. As a prevention insulin are prepared that acts as SOS. But, by the blessings of H.H.Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, through her unique discovery called Sahaja Yoga, where one is taught to be in inner balance, through meditation. Through Sahaja Yoga Meditation, after the person gets his Self-Realization, he gets a state called " Thoughtless Awareness " , the person learns to work without intensive planning, and as a result the liver is subsequently relaxed, its intensity of hotness is reduced, and thus diabetes gets completely cured from its roots. " http://www.geocities.com/diabetes_cure_from_sahajayoga/ Neither did Shri Mataji do any specific SY treatments or go to the Vashi clinic. She choose to follow what was best - western medicine. i also have diabetes. After an initial period of stabilization without any medication my sedentary lifestyle and rebellious sweet- tooth got the better of me. i had to take western medication and am glad that the SYSSR did not turn me into a treatment fanatic. It is a blessing that we have methods of measuring blood sugar levels, evidence that can compel us to seek alternative treatment. The real problem is that there are many diseases that do not have the same technological/medical edge. One of the most serious of such handicaps are diseases of the mind. Many of the incarnations underwent personal misfortunes despite their awesome divine nature, experiencing the same diseases and social torments that we humans endure. Despite our connection with the Divine we also should not expect personal favors. Neither did the incarnations. Neither does Shri Mataji. So if you have a medical problem that needs attention go and seek help from any doctor/hypnotherapist immediately. In the meantime stop all the SY treatments that are messing up your mind....... and i mean ALL - daily footsoaking, shoebeating, multi-mantra chanting and what not. Simple meditation twice a day is all you need to remain connected with the Divine ................ and sanity. regards, jagbir , " adam332412 " <lunduner1 wrote: > > > Dear Violet > > I am well versed with SY teachings and experience too. I have experienced a transformation in the last 4 years and behave in a way today I was unable to before, because I found SY. However, my experience is that SY can not make me feel 'normal' on its own. I have to do other activities also to feel how I want to feel, so I disagree with yogis who say all you need is SY to get all the spiritual help you need. I have actually been to pujas and felt quite terrible in myself when I had a period just doing SY treatments - because people like yourself told me it is all I need.......those who feel SY makes them feel 'in the kingdom of God' would speak the way you do, but if you still feel you have > problems that worshipping Sri Mataji can't help with, anyone would consider other treatments/help. I am not trying to devalue SY and say hypnotherapy is better but trying to analyze why yogis like yourself refuse to recommend anything else...it's almost like yogis > have become conditioned themselves with SY and that nothing else exists! Like I said, I'm not saying don't do SY.....but why on earth not try additional things also if SY isn't the whole ticket for you? I think telling people it is just a case of worshipping the divine more and more will cause psychological problems for some individuals when the solution to their problems may lie within alternative treatments/practices. If hypnotherapy is " nothing " in comparison to what the Divine Within you has to offer, then what is the harm > in trying it? Surely you'll just waste your cash and then go back to meditating as usual?? I posted here because I wanted to see if there were other yogis who feel hypnotherapy could be helpful but I get the impression they dare not expose themselves on this forum > hehehehe! Please send me a personal e-mail if you don't wish to post here. > > As for how is my surrender to the Divine going? Well it was going okay until I started to feel unconfident in myself and realized SY meditation can only help some of my chakras to put it in SY terms. All of you surrender to the divine within when you feel in thoughtless awareness (the kingdom of God to quote Sri Mataji) you wouldn't do it if you still feel screwed up after meditating - I wonder how many yogis have actually EVER felt 'screwed up' to begin with so they just can't relate? Violet & others, you just have to appreciate, SY methods might not be enough for everyone...just defending SY non-stop to me seems bordering on 'cultish'. How do you know that my friend's (or mine or anyone's) path further INTO SY is actually SUPPOSED to be via hypnotherapy, that he is supposed to try it, so later on his understanding of SY is greater? So that telling him not to do it is actually contrary to the divines intention for him? You see what I mean? > > Anyway, many thanks for taking the time to do the research into hypnotherapy you have done online and replying to me, I really appreciate it. > > Love Adam > > > > > , " Violet " <violet.tubb@> wrote: > > > > Meditation versus Hypnotherapy... > > > > This is what hypnotherapist... Patrick Porter, PhD, the founder of Positive Changes > Hypnosis... has to say on the difference between meditation and hypnotherapy: > > > > " Well the biggest difference is that in meditation you are usually seeking a higher power > to intervene and assist you or you are just contemplating the vastness of the universe. It's > not a real specific thing other than a spiritual-like communion. Hypnosis typically involves > something mundane. It has to do with the physical role like weight loss, stopping > smoking, or overcoming stress. You could use meditation for the same thing. > Physiologically there is no difference, but psychologically there is a difference, because > hypnosis doesn't depend on a higher power. " > > > > http://beauty.expertvillage.com/experts/meditation-hypnosis.htm > > > > > > Dear Adam, > > > > To the above quote... i would like to add that Sahaja Yoga is not just meditation like all > other meditations either. Sahaja Yoga is about Union with the Divine. It is about kundalini > awakening. And with kundalini (coiled energy) we are talking about the greatest power for > inner transformation and spiritual liberation. > > > > i personally experienced when helping to raise the kundalini of others at a Body-Mind- > Spirit Festival, that some of the people had taken an Aura Photograph at the Aura > Photograph Stall next to us, before they had their self- realisation at our SY Stall. We were > curious, so asked them to get their photograph taken after they had their self- > realisation... which 3 people did. In each case, the Aura Photograph went from different > colours to Pure White. > > > > A white aura is the aura colour of a saint as you see in religious paintings of saints. That > is the power of kundalini. What this white aura indicates is that you have been connected > to the Divine Power. What you do with that is another matter. Normally people did not > have kundalini awakening before they had virtually become saints with all their austerities, > and inner contemplations and spiritual seekings... but Shri Mataji has intervened and made > it possible so that we have our connection first, and She has given all the techniques to > use that connection to heal, cleanse, and clear ourselves and to " become the Spirit " and > liberate ourselves spiritually. > > > > No hypnotherapy can connect you to the Divine. It does not make a saint of a person. It > does not give a person the power to heal themselves, nor to become spiritually liberated. > Hypnotherapy does not result in the natural blossoming of the spiritual qualities that > comes through the Connection with the Divine Spirit Within. Hypnotherapy can claim none > of these, because it is done by mere man. > > > > Union with the Divine... which is what Sahaja Yoga is... is done by the Divine. Sahaja > Yoga is not just a treatment; it is a spiritual way of life with the Divine Within. Being in > connection with the Divine within, you get the spiritual help of Shri Mataji, Shri Ganesha, > Shri Jesus, Shri Krishna and other deities. This is a Divine Help that is real. > > > > However, to get their help (and they are instituted and placed upon your chakras or > energy centres)... you need to please them by having good thoughts, good intentions, and > leading a moral life. That means you are in tune with their spiritual qualities, and they will > help to awaken these spiritual qualities ever more as you pursue your spiritual liberation. > > > > i realise that Sahaja Yoga is used as a treatment only by some people, when it is meant > for much more. Shri Mataji did not come on Earth just to cure people; She came on Earth > to give people their spiritual liberation/salvation/moksha. If a person only uses SY as an > external treatment and does not surrender to the Divine to obtain their spiritual liberation > at this Resurrection Time, then they are really not understanding SY properly... as Shri > Mataji taught it. It is not surprising then, if people do not avail all of the properties of > Sahaja Yoga... that their non-wholistic approach does not work out to their best > advantage. The thing is... Sahaja Yoga needs a Wholistic Approach, not just a Subtle > System Approach. > > > > In fact the best approach to Sahaja Yoga is actually to surrender to the Divine, and the > Divine works things out 'hand in hand' with you. It is a spiritual cooperation through > spiritual integration. If the person just uses Sahaja Yoga as a treatment, and does not > surrender to the Divine also, the Divine may become disappointed that a person is > searching the cure only... and not seeking to " become One with the Author of All Cures " . > The Divine is interested in our spiritual liberation, above all else. Physical cures are a by- > product of that... or at the very least... they go 'hand in hand'. > > > > Most Sahaja Yogis are very nice people. Each have their spiritual work cut out for them. > The more they surrender to the Divine, and integrate with their Higher Spirit, the more > things work out for them. Therefore, if you are seeing yogis with lots of problems, that > should not put you off, because you can only 'see yourself right' by surrendering to the > Divine yourself. Maybe the yogis you refer to are missing that point... which is that the > Ultimate Cure is in Surrender to the Divine Within. What i am saying is... that if just > externals are focussed upon, and the surrender is not there... then it cannot work out as it > really should. When a person surrenders everything, they depend on the Divine for > everything too. Can you imagine such a surrender? It usually only happens bit by bit, as > each individual problem or thing is surrendered. > > > > So... checking other people's spiritual condition... is not going to improve yours. You > will not become spiritually liberated, by putting your attention on other people... or their > problems. The best thing you can do is to " go within to your own Spirit " . Why don't you > just give up your 'bee in the bonnet' about hypnotherapy? If others decide to have > hypnotherapy, you have no power to stop that. It is their free will to do so. That does not > mean you have to start to do so. i can tell you that hypnotherapy is " nothing " in > comparison to what the Divine Within you has to offer. As Patrick Porter states: > > > > " Hypnosis, however, does not depend upon a higher power. Hypnosis typically involves > something mundane. It has to do with the physical role like weight loss, stopping > smoking, or overcoming stress. You could use meditation for the same thing. " > > > > Adam... hypnotherapy fails too... if a person does not have the desire or will to replace > the negative with the positive. It also requires repeated sessions, plus putting the positive > conditionings into practice each day. This is no different to needing repeated sessions of > meditation to replace the negative with the positive, plus putting the positive > conditionings into practice each day. > > > > As hypnotherapist Patrick Porter states: > > > > " You could use meditation for the same thing " . > > > > So... don't expect yogis to 'go for hypnotherapy' when most are getting the results with > the use of Sahaja Yoga Meditation. Sahaja Yogis... even though you think they still have a > lot of problems... nevertheless have all been greatly helped in many ways. It is just that > there are so many conditionings, and it requires daily surrender to the Divine... which is > your Higher Self or Spirit. So... don't expect us to to become enamoured with > hypnotherapy, as we have been given all the tools to transform ourselves through Sahaja > Yoga. > > > > i hope this answer satisfies you, Adam, and gives you a larger and greater perspective of > Sahaja Yoga... rather than just being a " cure " . If you have any more questions, feel free. > However, i would like to know something. How is your surrender to the Divine going? Have > you tried that yet? (You don't need to answer; just answer that to yourself). Because... that > is the wholistic approach needed in Sahaja Yoga, that gives many blessings from the > Divine. You can start today. Forget about the hypnotherapy idea. Your friend obviously just > had more trust in a hypnotherapy session than in their own power of the Divine Within. > And just do meditation instead to achieve the same results. Really get down to your own > spiritual work...okay. i encourage you in that. You don't need a hypotherapist for that. > > > > with love and best wishes, > > > > violet > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Dear All, The greatest thing is to be able to have our Spirit to balance and heal us, but we also have to access medical attention when necessary. Shri Mataji has said that Sahaja Yoga will give you self-realisation leading to spiritual liberation (through surrender to the Divine) but i don't think She ever GUARANTEED 100% that " surrender to the Divine " will cure you of all physical bodily ailments in the short-term... and maybe not even in the long-term. Shri Mataji gave many remedies to help 'bodily health', but She also said that if it isn't working... that we should seek " medical attention " . The thing is... Sahaja Yoga is only spiritually-oriented. It is not physically-oriented: " And they should know that Sahaja Yoga is only spirit oriented. Nothing but spirit oriented. That, you have to have your spirit enlightened, that your spirit has to work everything, that you are not this body, this money, this position, this power, nothing. But you are the spirit. This is what one has to know. " (Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi - Athena Puja 1993 - Athens, Greece - 26 April, 1993) i read that Jagbir suffers from diabetes. Well, i suffer from high blood pressure ever since my 'change of life'... and it 'kicked in' from the time of hormonal change in my body. Why? I don't know, but it is a very common thing that happens to women at that age. And i have to have medical attention and tablets for that. So... my physical body is not completely free of 'dis-ease'... even though i surrender everything to Her. However, i also know that i am 'not this body, mind, or emotions, but that i am the Spirit " . And regardless of any bodily ailments... i have the spiritual balance within my Self: " All problems created by extreme behaviour on the right hand side or on the left hand side can be corrected by bringing the play of the Kundalini because, when, she rises she pulls the attention towards the centre. Thus, a person becomes a very balanced personality and doesn't go to extremes into anything. Moreover, all the ego-oriented habits drop out. Also, habits which exist because of conditioning also disappear. So a person becomes a free personality and he sees himself in the past and laughs at himself. " (Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi - Book/Meta Modern Area - Chapter 11 - The Subtle System - 29 September, 1995) i have found that the Spirit is more mighty and powerful over the physical body, than the physical body is over the Spirit. i find that the 'goodness'(kundalini) from the connection to the Divine Within.... flows in the form of spiritual vibrations and adjusts my psycho-somatic system " from within " . It cleanses, clears, and balances it, as it is awakened and inbuilt and flowing unobstructedly: " All kinds of detachments have to be developed. (This) means your priorities change. Once your attention gets fixed up with your Spirit, the catch or the hold on things that are of no importance, starts reducing by itself. " (Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi - Advice, Guru Purnima Day - Guru Puja - London, England - 29 July, 1980.) So... i find that my Spirit is more mighty and powerful over the body, than the body is over the Spirit. The 'goodness' from connection to the Spirit... flows and adjusts my psychosomatic system. It balances it. So... even though, physically in my body, i might register high blood pressure at times... this still does not register as any heart catch or block. i feel the cool vibrations daily, because i put my enlightened attention on my Spirit, and not on my physical body. i guarantee it is the same with Jagbir inspite of his diabetes he says he has, he puts his attention on his Spirit, and not on his physical body. i believe it is the same with Shri Mataji that She does not put Her Attention on Her physical body, but on Her Spirit. Shri Mataji also has diabetes, but... She has Very Cool Vibrations. The thing is... if you do not identify with the 'physical body' then the 'physical body' cannot affect the " Real You " ... and we are not talking about any kind of 'splitting'... we are talking about an integration whereby the " Spirit " ... and not the body... " is in charge " ! i used to have a permanent catch (psycho-somatic block) on the Heart Chakra on the left side. It was there for a long time while i worked it out with external treatments. But although the daily external treatment worked until the next day, it did not permanently cure the Left Heart Psych-somatic Block. It was only when the realisation dawned that i had to address issues of " self-confidence " and " security " within myself... and i introspected and addressed these... that real healing came and the Left Heart Block cleared forever! Through Shri Mataji's teachings, i understood that i could not blame my lack of self-confidence and my insecurities on anyone but myself. i could not blame it on my parents, teachers, co-workers, or family members. Therefore, i finally summoned up the " courage " to face these demons within myself. It was the " introspection " and the " facing of reality " that finally cleared my Left Heart Psycho-somatic Block. Then the kundalini energy finally flowed unobstructively within me! i believe what Shri Mataji reveals about " a lack of self-confidence " ... should really help us see this issue clearly and also help us to address this issue within ourselves: " We must understand why we are not progressing. Actually arrogance comes to people who lack self-confidence. Self-confidence is shattered in people whose Self is not manifesting. Let your Self manifest. When the Self is not manifesting, you get all kinds of problems, and then you complain. Actually the problem resides within you. It is God who has to complain. Think of it. The One who has created this universe, the One who has created you all with such love and affection, the One who has given you everything under the sun, also the One who has given you realisation, given you light ; - everything that is possible. And you are complaining against Him? You should not. Complain about 'yourself', that " I am not alright, I should be alright. " Complain about it. Face yourself. " (Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi - Hampstead, England - 17 October, 1982) Here is what Shri Mataji says about " finding our absolute, our sense of security " ... and some other things about Herself also which is interesting: " The other day a gentleman, old man, who met me in Singapore long time back, he told me that: 'Mother, after realization, actually I've not even touched it fully, but one thing happened to me I just gave up gambling, smoking and drinking, just like that. What happened to me? I said, when you have found out the real, you give up. When you have found the real diamond, of course, you give up the artificial ones. Because you are bored stiff, because you find life so boring, human beings so boring, life so boring, so uninteresting, full of tensions, full of cruelty, full of problems, you want to take to these things. But once you've found out your absolute, your sense of security is absolutely established. And the joy and happiness, the bliss that is promised to you, starts pouring down into you. You feel so relaxed. Apart from that, so many things happen to you that it is hard to tell you in this one lecture. I'm going to have many other lectures for you. Now first thing that happens is that physically you get fit. It's not that I'm going to go to the hospital to find out who are physically unfit and start an enterprise. Alright, pay so much money to cure this disease and all that. No, I do not know how many people I've cured, really I do not know, believe me. And I do not know how many of my disciples have cured. It's like the sun shining, it does not know how many leaves have become green. You do not keep notes of people whom you love, and whom you feed .... Do you write down how many morsels you have fed the person, do you? This is love. Why do you need the proof? Why do you need, you are not paying me anything? Do you want to have any proof of the sun? You are not giving me anything! I'm not selling anything! There's no shop on! You have to get this gift. You have to get it. So why do you want to judge me? If you don't get it, better try for it. What are you going to gain by knowing about me, it's not easy to know about me. It's very very difficult. I'm such a camouflage. It's a very difficult thing to know. Better thing is, you know yourself, then you'll learn. Unless and until you know yourself, you won't know me, so no use asking me questions which are rather embarrassing, I won't be able to tell you; because I've become very clever now. Krishna, just told one person, Arjuna. He said, give up everything and follow me. He said that after Yoga you'll get the Kshema, means, well-being. Not before. You get the well-being, physically, mentally, emotionally, materially, socially, in every way. And spiritually He said after Yoga it will happen! not before that. And that's what is going to happen to you, when you get it. If you don't get it today, don't get disappointed. (First talk of H. H. Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi delivered in Maccabean Hall, Australia on 22-3-81) So... " IF YOU DON'T GET IT TODAY, DON'T GET DISAPPOINTED! " However, if Sahaja Yoga Treatments are not working for a person, i have to agree with Jagbir's solution that " if you have a medical problem that needs attention go and seek help from any doctor/hypnotherapist immediately. In the meantime stop all the SY treatments that are messing up your mind....... and i mean ALL - daily footsoaking, shoebeating, multi-mantra chanting and what not. Simple meditation twice a day is all you need to remain connected with the Divine ................. and sanity. So... i apologize to you Adam, for taking to understanding your issues from the spiritual perspective only... when you were addressing the need to have " medical treatment " instead. Thankfully, Jagbir has clarified this issue, and we can all see things a bit more clearly now. regards to all, violet , " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org wrote: > > Dear Adam, > > The blind faith of the vast majority of subtle system SYs over time > gives way, for a few, to wisdom and balance. Chances are you will > always find far more conditioned SYs for the rest of your life than > meet those souls who are not diseased by the Sahaja Yoga Subtle > System Religion. i can almost visualize SYs shoebeating Mother Earth > sore with that of mental patients needing restraining for their own > welfare and sanity. The treatment disease has now mutated into a > mental monster that has all but brought Sahaja Yoga to its knees. > > i have always insisted that treatments should only be used if there > is something SERIOUSLY wrong. It is just like finding out you have > diabetes and trying SY treatments out. But as soon as you realize it > is not working, which should not take more than a few weeks, go and > see a doctor right away. If the doctor cannot help try homeopathy or > acupuncture or herbal cures. You discard the SY treatments > completely and try ANYTHING that helps. This approach applies to ALL > situations. Frankly, there are very few diseases that Sahaja Yoga > can cure despite all their claims. It bestows untold wonders and > unbelievable miracles for spiritual evolution, enlightenment and > peace of mind, not body. That being the case, you should not even > bother checking for SY treatments. > > Shri Mataji takes western medication for Her diabetes. She did not > follow the false advertisment of SYs: > > " Medically as such there is no cure to Diabetes. As a prevention > insulin are prepared that acts as SOS. > > But, by the blessings of H.H.Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, through her > unique discovery called Sahaja Yoga, where one is taught to be in > inner balance, through meditation. Through Sahaja Yoga Meditation, > after the person gets his Self-Realization, he gets a state > called " Thoughtless Awareness " , the person learns to work without > intensive planning, and as a result the liver is subsequently > relaxed, its intensity of hotness is reduced, and thus diabetes gets > completely cured from its roots. " > > http://www.geocities.com/diabetes_cure_from_sahajayoga/ > > > Neither did Shri Mataji do any specific SY treatments or go to the > Vashi clinic. She choose to follow what was best - western medicine. > > i also have diabetes. After an initial period of stabilization > without any medication my sedentary lifestyle and rebellious sweet- > tooth got the better of me. i had to take western medication and am > glad that the SYSSR did not turn me into a treatment fanatic. > > It is a blessing that we have methods of measuring blood sugar > levels, evidence that can compel us to seek alternative treatment. > The real problem is that there are many diseases that do not have > the same technological/medical edge. One of the most serious of such > handicaps are diseases of the mind. > > Many of the incarnations underwent personal misfortunes despite > their awesome divine nature, experiencing the same diseases and > social torments that we humans endure. Despite our connection with > the Divine we also should not expect personal favors. Neither did > the incarnations. Neither does Shri Mataji. > > So if you have a medical problem that needs attention go and seek > help from any doctor/hypnotherapist immediately. In the meantime > stop all the SY treatments that are messing up your mind....... and > i mean ALL - daily footsoaking, shoebeating, multi-mantra chanting > and what not. Simple meditation twice a day is all you need to > remain connected with the Divine ................ and sanity. > > regards, > > > jagbir > > > > , " adam332412 " > <lunduner1@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Violet > > > > I am well versed with SY teachings and experience too. I have > experienced a transformation in the last 4 years and behave in a way > today I was unable to before, because I found SY. However, my > experience is that SY can not make me feel 'normal' on its own. I > have to do other activities also to feel how I want to feel, so I > disagree with yogis who say all you need is SY to get all the > spiritual help you need. I have actually been to pujas and felt > quite terrible in myself when I had a period just doing SY > treatments - because people like yourself told me it is all I > need.......those who feel SY makes them feel 'in the kingdom of God' > would speak the way you do, but if you still feel you have > > problems that worshipping Sri Mataji can't help with, anyone would > consider other treatments/help. I am not trying to devalue SY and > say hypnotherapy is better but trying to analyze why yogis like > yourself refuse to recommend anything else...it's almost like yogis > > have become conditioned themselves with SY and that nothing else > exists! Like I said, I'm not saying don't do SY.....but why on earth > not try additional things also if SY isn't the whole ticket for you? > I think telling people it is just a case of worshipping the divine > more and more will cause psychological problems for some individuals > when the solution to their problems may lie within alternative > treatments/practices. If hypnotherapy is " nothing " in comparison to > what the Divine Within you has to offer, then what is the harm > > in trying it? Surely you'll just waste your cash and then go back > to meditating as usual?? I posted here because I wanted to see if > there were other yogis who feel hypnotherapy could be helpful but I > get the impression they dare not expose themselves on this forum > > hehehehe! Please send me a personal e-mail if you don't wish to > post here. > > > > As for how is my surrender to the Divine going? Well it was going > okay until I started to feel unconfident in myself and realized SY > meditation can only help some of my chakras to put it in SY terms. > All of you surrender to the divine within when you feel in > thoughtless awareness (the kingdom of God to quote Sri Mataji) you > wouldn't do it if you still feel screwed up after meditating - I > wonder how many yogis have actually EVER felt 'screwed up' to begin > with so they just can't relate? Violet & others, you just have to > appreciate, SY methods might not be enough for everyone...just > defending SY non-stop to me seems bordering on 'cultish'. How do you > know that my friend's (or mine or anyone's) path further INTO SY is > actually SUPPOSED to be via hypnotherapy, that he is supposed to try > it, so later on his understanding of SY is greater? So that telling > him not to do it is actually contrary to the divines intention for > him? You see what I mean? > > > > Anyway, many thanks for taking the time to do the research into > hypnotherapy you have done online and replying to me, I really > appreciate it. > > > > Love Adam > > > > > > > > > > , " Violet " > <violet.tubb@> wrote: > > > > > > Meditation versus Hypnotherapy... > > > > > > This is what hypnotherapist... Patrick Porter, PhD, the founder > of Positive Changes > > Hypnosis... has to say on the difference between meditation and > hypnotherapy: > > > > > > " Well the biggest difference is that in meditation you are > usually seeking a higher power > > to intervene and assist you or you are just contemplating the > vastness of the universe. It's > > not a real specific thing other than a spiritual-like communion. > Hypnosis typically involves > > something mundane. It has to do with the physical role like weight > loss, stopping > > smoking, or overcoming stress. You could use meditation for the > same thing. > > Physiologically there is no difference, but psychologically there > is a difference, because > > hypnosis doesn't depend on a higher power. " > > > > > > http://beauty.expertvillage.com/experts/meditation-hypnosis.htm > > > > > > > > > Dear Adam, > > > > > > To the above quote... i would like to add that Sahaja Yoga is > not just meditation like all > > other meditations either. Sahaja Yoga is about Union with the > Divine. It is about kundalini > > awakening. And with kundalini (coiled energy) we are talking about > the greatest power for > > inner transformation and spiritual liberation. > > > > > > i personally experienced when helping to raise the kundalini of > others at a Body-Mind- > > Spirit Festival, that some of the people had taken an Aura > Photograph at the Aura > > Photograph Stall next to us, before they had their self- > realisation at our SY Stall. We were > > curious, so asked them to get their photograph taken after they > had their self- > > realisation... which 3 people did. In each case, the Aura > Photograph went from different > > colours to Pure White. > > > > > > A white aura is the aura colour of a saint as you see in > religious paintings of saints. That > > is the power of kundalini. What this white aura indicates is that > you have been connected > > to the Divine Power. What you do with that is another matter. > Normally people did not > > have kundalini awakening before they had virtually become saints > with all their austerities, > > and inner contemplations and spiritual seekings... but Shri Mataji > has intervened and made > > it possible so that we have our connection first, and She has > given all the techniques to > > use that connection to heal, cleanse, and clear ourselves and > to " become the Spirit " and > > liberate ourselves spiritually. > > > > > > No hypnotherapy can connect you to the Divine. It does not make > a saint of a person. It > > does not give a person the power to heal themselves, nor to become > spiritually liberated. > > Hypnotherapy does not result in the natural blossoming of the > spiritual qualities that > > comes through the Connection with the Divine Spirit Within. > Hypnotherapy can claim none > > of these, because it is done by mere man. > > > > > > Union with the Divine... which is what Sahaja Yoga is... is done > by the Divine. Sahaja > > Yoga is not just a treatment; it is a spiritual way of life with > the Divine Within. Being in > > connection with the Divine within, you get the spiritual help of > Shri Mataji, Shri Ganesha, > > Shri Jesus, Shri Krishna and other deities. This is a Divine Help > that is real. > > > > > > However, to get their help (and they are instituted and placed > upon your chakras or > > energy centres)... you need to please them by having good > thoughts, good intentions, and > > leading a moral life. That means you are in tune with their > spiritual qualities, and they will > > help to awaken these spiritual qualities ever more as you pursue > your spiritual liberation. > > > > > > i realise that Sahaja Yoga is used as a treatment only by some > people, when it is meant > > for much more. Shri Mataji did not come on Earth just to cure > people; She came on Earth > > to give people their spiritual liberation/salvation/moksha. If a > person only uses SY as an > > external treatment and does not surrender to the Divine to obtain > their spiritual liberation > > at this Resurrection Time, then they are really not understanding > SY properly... as Shri > > Mataji taught it. It is not surprising then, if people do not > avail all of the properties of > > Sahaja Yoga... that their non-wholistic approach does not work out > to their best > > advantage. The thing is... Sahaja Yoga needs a Wholistic Approach, > not just a Subtle > > System Approach. > > > > > > In fact the best approach to Sahaja Yoga is actually to > surrender to the Divine, and the > > Divine works things out 'hand in hand' with you. It is a spiritual > cooperation through > > spiritual integration. If the person just uses Sahaja Yoga as a > treatment, and does not > > surrender to the Divine also, the Divine may become disappointed > that a person is > > searching the cure only... and not seeking to " become One with the > Author of All Cures " . > > The Divine is interested in our spiritual liberation, above all > else. Physical cures are a by- > > product of that... or at the very least... they go 'hand in hand'. > > > > > > Most Sahaja Yogis are very nice people. Each have their > spiritual work cut out for them. > > The more they surrender to the Divine, and integrate with their > Higher Spirit, the more > > things work out for them. Therefore, if you are seeing yogis with > lots of problems, that > > should not put you off, because you can only 'see yourself right' > by surrendering to the > > Divine yourself. Maybe the yogis you refer to are missing that > point... which is that the > > Ultimate Cure is in Surrender to the Divine Within. What i am > saying is... that if just > > externals are focussed upon, and the surrender is not there... > then it cannot work out as it > > really should. When a person surrenders everything, they depend on > the Divine for > > everything too. Can you imagine such a surrender? It usually only > happens bit by bit, as > > each individual problem or thing is surrendered. > > > > > > So... checking other people's spiritual condition... is not > going to improve yours. You > > will not become spiritually liberated, by putting your attention > on other people... or their > > problems. The best thing you can do is to " go within to your own > Spirit " . Why don't you > > just give up your 'bee in the bonnet' about hypnotherapy? If > others decide to have > > hypnotherapy, you have no power to stop that. It is their free > will to do so. That does not > > mean you have to start to do so. i can tell you that hypnotherapy > is " nothing " in > > comparison to what the Divine Within you has to offer. As Patrick > Porter states: > > > > > > " Hypnosis, however, does not depend upon a higher power. > Hypnosis typically involves > > something mundane. It has to do with the physical role like weight > loss, stopping > > smoking, or overcoming stress. You could use meditation for the > same thing. " > > > > > > Adam... hypnotherapy fails too... if a person does not have the > desire or will to replace > > the negative with the positive. It also requires repeated > sessions, plus putting the positive > > conditionings into practice each day. This is no different to > needing repeated sessions of > > meditation to replace the negative with the positive, plus putting > the positive > > conditionings into practice each day. > > > > > > As hypnotherapist Patrick Porter states: > > > > > > " You could use meditation for the same thing " . > > > > > > So... don't expect yogis to 'go for hypnotherapy' when most are > getting the results with > > the use of Sahaja Yoga Meditation. Sahaja Yogis... even though you > think they still have a > > lot of problems... nevertheless have all been greatly helped in > many ways. It is just that > > there are so many conditionings, and it requires daily surrender > to the Divine... which is > > your Higher Self or Spirit. So... don't expect us to to become > enamoured with > > hypnotherapy, as we have been given all the tools to transform > ourselves through Sahaja > > Yoga. > > > > > > i hope this answer satisfies you, Adam, and gives you a larger > and greater perspective of > > Sahaja Yoga... rather than just being a " cure " . If you have any > more questions, feel free. > > However, i would like to know something. How is your surrender to > the Divine going? Have > > you tried that yet? (You don't need to answer; just answer that to > yourself). Because... that > > is the wholistic approach needed in Sahaja Yoga, that gives many > blessings from the > > Divine. You can start today. Forget about the hypnotherapy idea. > Your friend obviously just > > had more trust in a hypnotherapy session than in their own power > of the Divine Within. > > And just do meditation instead to achieve the same results. Really > get down to your own > > spiritual work...okay. i encourage you in that. You don't need a > hypotherapist for that. > > > > > > with love and best wishes, > > > > > > violet > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 Dear Jagbir and Violet Sorry for the delay in my response. I hope you both have had a pleasant Christmas and I wish you both further spiritual ascent and happiness in 2007! Thanks for your e-mails (below) which I have read with great interest. I feel like we have made progression in our understanding of each other. Violet, sorry if you felt I was trying to put words into your mouth, we have obviously misunderstood each other somewhere. I am glad we are all in agreement that SY treatments don't help with everything, I feel this should be clarified more at meetings. Jagbir, I think you have a well thought out attitude to all of this and you are down to earth, not making SY out to be more than it is (in regards to what the meditation can do for people). Okay, so now you have both said if I have a medical problem I SHOULD see a doctor....even see a hypnotherapist! The issue now is what category is my problem because different people will put it in different categories. Some would say 'yes, it is medical' others 'it is spiritual' some 'both'. Well this is what I was trying to say before. I know what you mean about becoming the spirit after realization and not going to extremes but I still feel that I have a problem with self-confidence and self- esteem (actually similar to what you described Violet). Now I don't believe any amount of meditation, work shops or anything I have come across in SY can cure me of this feeling as I have done trial and error already. I am not going to keep meditating for another ten years and see if the kundalini has cured me over time! I know how to temporarily fix it though....and I do this by exercise (boxing, weights, running etc). After a session of these activities I would say I feel content and happy with myself, they make me 'feel' confident and actually the vibrations really start flowing then, hence the connection between confidence and happiness. Now many people would say 'great, what's the problem then, keep doing it'. Well after years of doing this I have realized that all these activities are just treatments (much like foot-soaking and the like), they change how you feel 'temporarily' but the feeling soon wears off and the horrid feeling of no confidence returns. Thus the problem has not been dealt with at the root! Sometimes I haven't got time to go to the gym or whatever and I can't be left to feel dreadful as I'm sure you can imagine how this affects work, relationships etc. I didn't always feel the need to these activities, things have happened to me in my childhood/teenage years which have damaged my self-esteem. It is a sub-conscious problem from what I can tell. Now my friend who I said did hypnotherapy had a similar problem (something in the sub-consious bugging him). He felt meditation was not tackling the issue head on but running away from it by continually meditating to block it out...but stop meditating and hey presto, problem still there! Now from what I have been told and will read about, hypnotherapy could be what I need to sort this out. To go right in to the sub-consious and face these demons head on! I am not afraid and yes I know what you believe lurks down there and that is why you are reluctant to recommend it. But I can tell you both I have given everything a go including continual asking mother to help me, rid me of this feeling etc etc etc. It is time to try something else hence my original post on this matter. Meditation is great but something is still wrong if people feel '****** up' when they don't meditate...or exercise like me. I feel almost insulted when people suggest it is because I don't worship Sri Mataji enough. So, after what I have just told you, would you recommend hypnotherapy for this problem? Even if hypnotherapy IS actually spiritually connected does that necessarily mean it will make my problem worse? Hypnotherapy has helped millions of people with all kinds of problems and is medically recognized, look at all the good reports on the internet, I am yet to find one site with someone saying they got possessed by going to a hypnotherapist. I have to also say that my friend believes SY meditation contributed to the success of his hypnotherapy, probably by giving him a greater ability to introspect more accurately and nail the problem. I can appreciate why hypnotherapy might not be good for everyone. Regards, Adam , " Violet " <violet.tubb wrote: > > Dear All, > > The greatest thing is to be able to have our Spirit to balance and heal us, but we also have to access medical attention when necessary. Shri Mataji has said that Sahaja Yoga will give you self-realisation leading to spiritual liberation (through surrender to the Divine) but i don't think She ever GUARANTEED 100% that " surrender to the Divine " will cure you of all physical bodily ailments in the short-term... and maybe not even in the long-term. Shri Mataji gave many remedies to help 'bodily health', but She also said that if it isn't working... that we should seek " medical attention " . The thing is... Sahaja Yoga is only spiritually-oriented. It is not physically-oriented: > > " And they should know that Sahaja Yoga is only spirit oriented. Nothing but spirit oriented. That, you have to have your spirit enlightened, that your spirit has to work everything, that you are not this body, this money, this position, this power, nothing. But you are the spirit. This is what one has to know. " (Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi - Athena Puja 1993 - Athens, Greece - 26 April, 1993) > > i read that Jagbir suffers from diabetes. Well, i suffer from high blood pressure ever since my 'change of life'... and it 'kicked in' from the time of hormonal change in my body. Why? I don't know, but it is a very common thing that happens to women at that age. And i have to have medical attention and tablets for that. So... my physical body is not completely free of 'dis-ease'... even though i surrender everything to Her. However, i also know that i am 'not this body, mind, or emotions, but that i am the Spirit " . And regardless of any bodily ailments... i have the spiritual balance within my Self: > > " All problems created by extreme behaviour on the right hand side or on the left hand side can be corrected by bringing the play of the Kundalini because, when, she rises she pulls the attention towards the centre. Thus, a person becomes a very balanced personality and doesn't go to extremes into anything. Moreover, all the ego-oriented habits drop out. Also, habits which exist because of conditioning also disappear. So a person becomes a free personality and he sees himself in the past and laughs at himself. " > (Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi - Book/Meta Modern Area - Chapter 11 - The Subtle System - 29 September, 1995) > > i have found that the Spirit is more mighty and powerful over the physical body, than the physical body is over the Spirit. i find that the 'goodness'(kundalini) from the connection to the Divine Within.... flows in the form of spiritual vibrations and adjusts my psycho-somatic system " from within " . It cleanses, clears, and balances it, as it is awakened and inbuilt and flowing unobstructedly: > > " All kinds of detachments have to be developed. (This) means your priorities change. Once your attention gets fixed up with your Spirit, the catch or the hold on things that are of no importance, starts reducing by itself. " > (Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi - Advice, Guru Purnima Day - Guru Puja - London, England - 29 July, 1980.) > > So... i find that my Spirit is more mighty and powerful over the body, than the body is over the Spirit. The 'goodness' from connection to the Spirit... flows and adjusts my psychosomatic system. It balances it. So... even though, physically in my body, i might register high blood pressure at times... this still does not register as any heart catch or block. i feel the cool vibrations daily, because i put my enlightened attention on my Spirit, and not on my physical body. i guarantee it is the same with Jagbir inspite of his diabetes he says he has, he puts his attention on his Spirit, and not on his physical body. i believe it is the same with Shri Mataji that She does not put Her Attention on Her physical body, but on Her Spirit. Shri Mataji also has diabetes, but... She has Very Cool Vibrations. > > The thing is... if you do not identify with the 'physical body' then the 'physical body' cannot affect the " Real You " ... and we are not talking about any kind of 'splitting'... we are talking about an integration whereby the " Spirit " ... and not the body... " is in charge " ! > > i used to have a permanent catch (psycho-somatic block) on the Heart Chakra on the left side. It was there for a long time while i worked it out with external treatments. But although the daily external treatment worked until the next day, it did not permanently cure the Left Heart Psych-somatic Block. It was only when the realisation dawned that i had to address issues of " self-confidence " and " security " within myself... and i introspected and addressed these... that real healing came and the Left Heart Block cleared forever! > > Through Shri Mataji's teachings, i understood that i could not blame my lack of self- confidence and my insecurities on anyone but myself. i could not blame it on my parents, teachers, co-workers, or family members. Therefore, i finally summoned up the " courage " to face these demons within myself. It was the " introspection " and the " facing of reality " that finally cleared my Left Heart Psycho-somatic Block. Then the kundalini energy finally flowed unobstructively within me! > > i believe what Shri Mataji reveals about " a lack of self-confidence " ... should really help us see this issue clearly and also help us to address this issue within ourselves: > > " We must understand why we are not progressing. Actually arrogance comes to people who lack self-confidence. Self-confidence is shattered in people whose Self is not manifesting. Let your Self manifest. When the Self is not manifesting, you get all kinds of problems, and then you complain. Actually the problem resides within you. It is God who has to complain. Think of it. The One who has created this universe, the One who has created you all with such love and affection, the One who has given you everything under the sun, also the One who has given you realisation, given you light ; - everything that is possible. And you are complaining against Him? You should not. Complain about 'yourself', that " I am not alright, I should be alright. " Complain about it. Face yourself. " (Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi - Hampstead, England - 17 October, 1982) > > Here is what Shri Mataji says about " finding our absolute, our sense of security " ... and some other things about Herself also which is interesting: > > " The other day a gentleman, old man, who met me in Singapore long time back, he told me that: 'Mother, after realization, actually I've not even touched it fully, but one thing happened to me I just gave up gambling, smoking and drinking, just like that. What happened to me? I said, when you have found out the real, you give up. When you have found the real diamond, of course, you give up the artificial ones. Because you are bored stiff, because you find life so boring, human beings so boring, life so boring, so uninteresting, full of tensions, full of cruelty, full of problems, you want to take to these things. But once you've found out your absolute, your sense of security is absolutely established. And the joy and happiness, the bliss that is promised to you, starts pouring down into you. You feel so relaxed. Apart from that, so many things happen to you that it is hard to tell you in this one lecture. I'm going to have many other lectures for you. Now first thing that happens is that physically you get fit. It's not that I'm going to go to the hospital to find out who are physically unfit and start an enterprise. Alright, pay so much money to cure this disease and all that. No, I do not know how many people I've cured, really I do not know, believe me. And I do not know how many of my disciples have cured. It's like the sun shining, it does not know how many leaves have become green. You do not keep notes of people whom you love, and whom you feed ... Do you write down how many morsels you have fed the person, do you? This is love. Why do you need the proof? Why do you need, you are not paying me anything? Do you want to have any proof of the sun? You are not giving me anything! I'm not selling anything! There's no shop on! You have to get this gift. You have to get it. So why do you want to judge me? If you don't get it, better try for it. What are you going to gain by knowing about me, it's not easy to know about me. It's very very difficult. I'm such a camouflage. It's a very difficult thing to know. Better thing is, you know yourself, then you'll learn. Unless and until you know yourself, you won't know me, so no use asking me questions which are rather embarrassing, I won't be able to tell you; because I've become very clever now. Krishna, just told one person, Arjuna. He said, give up everything and follow me. He said that after Yoga you'll get the Kshema, means, well-being. Not before. You get the well-being, physically, mentally, emotionally, materially, socially, in every way. And spiritually He said after Yoga it will happen! not before that. And that's what is going to happen to you, when you get it. If you don't get it today, don't get disappointed. (First talk of H. H. Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi delivered in Maccabean Hall, Australia on 22-3-81) > > So... " IF YOU DON'T GET IT TODAY, DON'T GET DISAPPOINTED! " > > However, if Sahaja Yoga Treatments are not working for a person, i have to agree with Jagbir's solution that " if you have a medical problem that needs attention go and seek help from any doctor/hypnotherapist immediately. In the meantime stop all the SY treatments that are messing up your mind....... and i mean ALL - daily footsoaking, shoebeating, multi-mantra chanting and what not. Simple meditation twice a day is all you need to remain connected with the Divine ................ and sanity. > > So... i apologize to you Adam, for taking to understanding your issues from the spiritual perspective only... when you were addressing the need to have " medical treatment " instead. Thankfully, Jagbir has clarified this issue, and we can all see things a bit more clearly now. > > regards to all, > > violet > > > , " jagbir > singh " <adishakti_org@> wrote: > > > > Dear Adam, > > > > The blind faith of the vast majority of subtle system SYs over time > > gives way, for a few, to wisdom and balance. Chances are you will > > always find far more conditioned SYs for the rest of your life than > > meet those souls who are not diseased by the Sahaja Yoga Subtle > > System Religion. i can almost visualize SYs shoebeating Mother Earth > > sore with that of mental patients needing restraining for their own > > welfare and sanity. The treatment disease has now mutated into a > > mental monster that has all but brought Sahaja Yoga to its knees. > > > > i have always insisted that treatments should only be used if there > > is something SERIOUSLY wrong. It is just like finding out you have > > diabetes and trying SY treatments out. But as soon as you realize it > > is not working, which should not take more than a few weeks, go and > > see a doctor right away. If the doctor cannot help try homeopathy or > > acupuncture or herbal cures. You discard the SY treatments > > completely and try ANYTHING that helps. This approach applies to ALL > > situations. Frankly, there are very few diseases that Sahaja Yoga > > can cure despite all their claims. It bestows untold wonders and > > unbelievable miracles for spiritual evolution, enlightenment and > > peace of mind, not body. That being the case, you should not even > > bother checking for SY treatments. > > > > Shri Mataji takes western medication for Her diabetes. She did not > > follow the false advertisment of SYs: > > > > " Medically as such there is no cure to Diabetes. As a prevention > > insulin are prepared that acts as SOS. > > > > But, by the blessings of H.H.Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, through her > > unique discovery called Sahaja Yoga, where one is taught to be in > > inner balance, through meditation. Through Sahaja Yoga Meditation, > > after the person gets his Self-Realization, he gets a state > > called " Thoughtless Awareness " , the person learns to work without > > intensive planning, and as a result the liver is subsequently > > relaxed, its intensity of hotness is reduced, and thus diabetes gets > > completely cured from its roots. " > > > > http://www.geocities.com/diabetes_cure_from_sahajayoga/ > > > > > > Neither did Shri Mataji do any specific SY treatments or go to the > > Vashi clinic. She choose to follow what was best - western medicine. > > > > i also have diabetes. After an initial period of stabilization > > without any medication my sedentary lifestyle and rebellious sweet- > > tooth got the better of me. i had to take western medication and am > > glad that the SYSSR did not turn me into a treatment fanatic. > > > > It is a blessing that we have methods of measuring blood sugar > > levels, evidence that can compel us to seek alternative treatment. > > The real problem is that there are many diseases that do not have > > the same technological/medical edge. One of the most serious of such > > handicaps are diseases of the mind. > > > > Many of the incarnations underwent personal misfortunes despite > > their awesome divine nature, experiencing the same diseases and > > social torments that we humans endure. Despite our connection with > > the Divine we also should not expect personal favors. Neither did > > the incarnations. Neither does Shri Mataji. > > > > So if you have a medical problem that needs attention go and seek > > help from any doctor/hypnotherapist immediately. In the meantime > > stop all the SY treatments that are messing up your mind....... and > > i mean ALL - daily footsoaking, shoebeating, multi-mantra chanting > > and what not. Simple meditation twice a day is all you need to > > remain connected with the Divine ................ and sanity. > > > > regards, > > > > > > jagbir > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 > > My apoligies to forum members who may not like the > views/opinions/suggestions i have posted here. You > have to go through this kind of suffering to truly > understand it. Its a 24 hr nightmare to not be able to > face the world and do common tasks that others wouldnt > think twice about doing. > > Avnish > Dear Avnish and All, i am 100% for treatments if you are having SERIOUS problems. If they don't work seek medical help immediately. Or if that does not work then try anything that may work - acupuncture, hypnotherapy, ayurveda. It is the mechanical and mindless daily treatments/footsoaks/candling for petty catches/problems that Shri Mataji is against, and so am i. SYs have made a fanatical religion out of the subtle system, its problems and cures .................... perhaps to compensate for their severe handicap in comprehending/having faith in the Mother Kundalini and Shakti within. Having said that i will definitely seek alternative treatments if it is a MEDICAL problem. But i will be an idiot to seek solace in lemons or candles or salted water if my chakras are catching, or my mother- in-law is making life difficult for me, or credit card history in a mess. 99% of SYs will not agree with me because they have been conditioned to believe so by the Sahaja Yoga Subtle System Religion. They have become addicted to the opium of this manmade religion. What is Sahaja Yoga without it? So i am not against treatments but just the insanity of applying them to all that ails humans ........ er, i mean SYs. i think humans are stable and healthy till they join Sahaja Yoga, and are diagnosed as diseased by the SYSSR. Then it is a life-long ritual of ceaseless catches and daily treatments. As i asked, what is Sahaja Yoga without all the joy of being daily diseased and the pleasure of happy healing? ............. till death? regards, jagbir , Avnish Bhagat <avnishbhagat wrote: > > Adam - My good Man!! > > For how long i have looked for someone like you, who > has been suffering the way i have and has gotten sick > of people telling him he does not meditate hard > enough!!! > > Your mail describes perfectly the way i have been > feeling all these years. i too have gone nuts soaking > my feet and praying my heart out to get some > confidence. But hang on, there is hope. I think my > prayer finally went through and i have got a few > answers and a few solutions. They have worked for me, > and i think they will work for you too. In about 7 > days time, you'll be 60% better, and that too, without > a workout. > > The main cure I will tell you on personal email, the > rest i will put here. I do hope others will not mind > and/or try this advice unnecessarily. > > 1. Sleep early and wake up early - The moon affects > you tremendously. yes, the real moon in the sky. Try > to hit the sack earlier, maybe by 10.30 or 11 at the > latest. Wake up at sunrise. You'll get a whole load of > extra energy. > > 2. Clear only the left channel while meditating - You > know how to balance left and right i assume. Im also > assuming your lack of confidence comes with a certain > amount of anxiety. Ok, so now when you sit to > meditate, for the first 15 minutes, clear only the > left channel. keep a candle close to the the fingers > of the left hand and the right on the ground. Do not > clear the right side. > > 3. beverages - Do you also have a problem with the > stomach and motions? I noticed that giving up tea and > taking 'coffee', gives that 'get up and go' energy! > Lack of confidence usually is accompanied by the > inability to focus on anything for long, specially > slow conversations...at the same time, you will be a > master at well composed mails/letters, will be > extremely courteous and well mannered becuase you are > relying on the energy that runs on the left channel - > ida nadi. > > 4. This one is the real remedy which will give the > confidence, so mail me on avnishbhagat or > add on msn messenger > > My apoligies to forum members who may not like the > views/opinions/suggestions i have posted here. You > have to go through this kind of suffering to truly > understand it. Its a 24 hr nightmare to not be able to > face the world and do common tasks that others wouldnt > think twice about doing. > > Avnish > > > > --- adam332412 <lunduner1 wrote: > > > Dear Jagbir and Violet > > > > Sorry for the delay in my response. I hope you both > > have had a pleasant Christmas and I > > wish you both further spiritual ascent and happiness > > in 2007! > > > > Thanks for your e-mails (below) which I have read > > with great interest. I feel like we have > > made progression in our understanding of each other. > > Violet, sorry if you felt I was trying > > to put words into your mouth, we have obviously > > misunderstood each other somewhere. I > > am glad we are all in agreement that SY treatments > > don't help with everything, I feel this > > should be clarified more at meetings. Jagbir, I > > think you have a well thought out attitude to > > all of this and you are down to earth, not making SY > > out to be more than it is (in regards > > to what the meditation can do for people). Okay, so > > now you have both said if I have a > > medical problem I SHOULD see a doctor....even see a > > hypnotherapist! The issue now is > > what category is my problem because different people > > will put it in different categories. > > Some would say 'yes, it is medical' others 'it is > > spiritual' some 'both'. Well this is what I was > > trying to say before. I know what you mean about > > becoming the spirit after realization and > > not going to extremes but I still feel that I have a > > problem with self-confidence and self- > > esteem (actually similar to what you described > > Violet). Now I don't believe any amount of > > meditation, work shops or anything I have come > > across in SY can cure me of this feeling as > > I have done trial and error already. I am not going > > to keep meditating for another ten years > > and see if the kundalini has cured me over time! I > > know how to temporarily fix it > > though....and I do this by exercise (boxing, > > weights, running etc). After a session of these > > activities I would say I feel content and happy with > > myself, they make me 'feel' confident > > and actually the vibrations really start flowing > > then, hence the connection between > > confidence and happiness. Now many people would say > > 'great, what's the problem then, > > keep doing it'. Well after years of doing this I > > have realized that all these activities are just > > treatments (much like foot-soaking and the like), > > they change how you feel 'temporarily' > > but the feeling soon wears off and the horrid > > feeling of no confidence returns. Thus the > > problem has not been dealt with at the root! > > Sometimes I haven't got time to go to the > > gym or whatever and I can't be left to feel dreadful > > as I'm sure you can imagine how this > > affects work, relationships etc. I didn't always > > feel the need to these activities, things have > > happened to me in my childhood/teenage years which > > have damaged my self-esteem. It is > > a sub-conscious problem from what I can tell. Now my > > friend who I said did hypnotherapy > > had a similar problem (something in the sub-consious > > bugging him). He felt meditation > > was not tackling the issue head on but running away > > from it by continually meditating to > > block it out...but stop meditating and hey presto, > > problem still there! Now from what I > > have been told and will read about, hypnotherapy > > could be what I need to sort this out. To > > go right in to the sub-consious and face these > > demons head on! I am not afraid and yes I > > know what you believe lurks down there and that is > > why you are reluctant to recommend > > it. But I can tell you both I have given everything > > a go including continual asking mother to > > help me, rid me of this feeling etc etc etc. It is > > time to try something else hence my > > original post on this matter. Meditation is great > > but something is still wrong if people feel > > '****** up' when they don't meditate...or exercise > > like me. I feel almost insulted when > > people suggest it is because I don't worship Sri > > Mataji enough. So, after what I have just > > told you, would you recommend hypnotherapy for this > > problem? Even if hypnotherapy IS > > actually spiritually connected does that necessarily > > mean it will make my problem worse? > > Hypnotherapy has helped millions of people with all > > kinds of problems and is medically > > recognized, look at all the good reports on the > > internet, I am yet to find one site with > > someone saying they got possessed by going to a > > hypnotherapist. I have to also say that > > my friend believes SY meditation contributed to the > > success of his hypnotherapy, probably > > by giving him a greater ability to introspect more > > accurately and nail the problem. I can > > appreciate why hypnotherapy might not be good for > > everyone. > > > > Regards, > > > > Adam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , > > " Violet " <violet.tubb@> wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > The greatest thing is to be able to have our > > Spirit to balance and heal us, but we also > > have to access medical attention when necessary. > > Shri Mataji has said that Sahaja Yoga will > > give you self-realisation leading to spiritual > > liberation (through surrender to the Divine) > > but i don't think She ever GUARANTEED 100% that > > " surrender to the Divine " will cure you > > of all physical bodily ailments in the short-term... > > and maybe not even in the long-term. > > Shri Mataji gave many remedies to help 'bodily > > health', but She also said that if it isn't > > working... that we should seek " medical attention " . > > The thing is... Sahaja Yoga is only > > spiritually-oriented. It is not physically-oriented: > > > > > > " And they should know that Sahaja Yoga is only > > spirit oriented. Nothing but spirit > > oriented. That, you have to have your spirit > > enlightened, that your spirit has to work > > everything, that you are not this body, this money, > > this position, this power, nothing. But > > you are the spirit. This is what one has to know. " > > (Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi - Athena Puja > > 1993 - Athens, Greece - 26 April, 1993) > > > > > > i read that Jagbir suffers from diabetes. Well, i > > suffer from high blood pressure ever > > since my 'change of life'... and it 'kicked in' from > > the time of hormonal change in my body. > > Why? I don't know, but it is a very common thing > > that happens to women at that age. And i > > have to have medical attention and tablets for that. > > So... my physical body is not > > completely free of 'dis-ease'... even though i > > surrender everything to Her. However, i also > > know that i am 'not this body, mind, or emotions, > > but that i am the Spirit " . And regardless > > of any bodily ailments... i have the spiritual > > balance within my Self: > > > > > > " All problems created by extreme behaviour on the > > right hand side or on the left hand > > side can be corrected by bringing the play of the > > Kundalini because, when, she rises she > > pulls the attention towards the centre. Thus, a > > person becomes a very balanced > > personality and doesn't go to extremes into > > anything. Moreover, all the ego-oriented > > habits drop out. Also, habits which exist because of > > conditioning also disappear. So a > > person becomes a free personality and he sees > > himself in the past and laughs at himself. " > > > (Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi - Book/Meta Modern Area > > - Chapter 11 - The Subtle System - > > 29 September, 1995) > > > > > > i have found that the Spirit is more mighty and > > powerful over the physical body, than > > the physical body is over the Spirit. i find that > > the 'goodness'(kundalini) from the > > connection to the Divine Within.... flows in the > > form of spiritual vibrations and adjusts my > > psycho-somatic system " from within " . It cleanses, > > clears, and balances it, as it is awakened > > and inbuilt and flowing unobstructedly: > > > > > > " All kinds of detachments have to be developed. > > (This) means your priorities change. > > Once your attention gets fixed up with your Spirit, > > the catch or the hold on things that are > > of no importance, starts reducing by itself. " > > > (Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi - Advice, Guru Purnima > > Day - Guru Puja - London, England - > > 29 July, 1980.) > > > > > > So... i find that my Spirit is more mighty and > > powerful over the body, than the body is > > over the Spirit. The 'goodness' from connection to > > the Spirit... flows and adjusts my > > psychosomatic system. It balances it. So... even > > though, physically in my body, i might > > register high blood pressure at times... this still > > does not register as any heart catch or > > block. i feel the cool vibrations daily, because i > > put > === message truncated === > > > Send free SMS to your Friends on Mobile from your Messenger. Download Now! http://messenger./download.php > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Jagbir Thanks for all your input into this. I wish there were more yogis who run meetings with sensible views like yours. Actually, I personally have no problem declaring at meetings who Sri Mataji claims to be, the amount of new yogis that actually stay with us is so tiny that the shock factor of declaring this might actually keep people more interested!!! After-all, you go into a church or mosque and they would tell you anything they are supposed to believe as part of the religion...there is no 'hidden truth' which you find out 3 months later....if you have even bothered to stay! I understand why things are the way they are though. RE hypnotherapy: I recently asked one established yogi had he ever tried hypnotherapy and was met with 'NO WAY'! No consideration given that it could help some people, it's Sahajway or the highway! Saying all what I have though, I would only begin hypnotherapy sessions after deep research and as a last resort! This is my advice to anyone. Give what you hear from yogis a good go first.....but don't become brainwashed! Violet Thanks for your medical conference post! Some very interesting stuff which I will try and learn from. Avnish Thanks for your message! Actually a few times I have gone to bed early and woke up early and HAVE noticed a difference in how I feel! I keep going to bed late though which is probably contributing to my problem. I do also drink loads of tea and no so much coffee.....I have a feeling your advice will greatly help me, glad I'm not the only one with this feeling of low confidence and to share advice, I will e-mail you. I would just like to say to everyone to be aware there are people around who can actually struggle to do things which you do without even thinking about i:e like go into a shop and try on a few different garments....why? Because we don't 'feel' confident enough and can't bear confident people talking to us confidently when we feel like this, it comes across as threatening it's that crazy! I have had to go to extremes to try and deal with this but it is still there after everything. This is why I feel something like this needs to be faced head on in the sub-consious to permanently remove it...if possible and if all else fails. Regards Adam , Avnish Bhagat <avnishbhagat wrote: > > Adam - My good Man!! > > For how long i have looked for someone like you, who > has been suffering the way i have and has gotten sick > of people telling him he does not meditate hard > enough!!! > > Your mail describes perfectly the way i have been > feeling all these years. i too have gone nuts soaking > my feet and praying my heart out to get some > confidence. But hang on, there is hope. I think my > prayer finally went through and i have got a few > answers and a few solutions. They have worked for me, > and i think they will work for you too. In about 7 > days time, you'll be 60% better, and that too, without > a workout. > > The main cure I will tell you on personal email, the > rest i will put here. I do hope others will not mind > and/or try this advice unnecessarily. > > 1. Sleep early and wake up early - The moon affects > you tremendously. yes, the real moon in the sky. Try > to hit the sack earlier, maybe by 10.30 or 11 at the > latest. Wake up at sunrise. You'll get a whole load of > extra energy. > > 2. Clear only the left channel while meditating - You > know how to balance left and right i assume. Im also > assuming your lack of confidence comes with a certain > amount of anxiety. Ok, so now when you sit to > meditate, for the first 15 minutes, clear only the > left channel. keep a candle close to the the fingers > of the left hand and the right on the ground. Do not > clear the right side. > > 3. beverages - Do you also have a problem with the > stomach and motions? I noticed that giving up tea and > taking 'coffee', gives that 'get up and go' energy! > Lack of confidence usually is accompanied by the > inability to focus on anything for long, specially > slow conversations...at the same time, you will be a > master at well composed mails/letters, will be > extremely courteous and well mannered becuase you are > relying on the energy that runs on the left channel - > ida nadi. > > 4. This one is the real remedy which will give the > confidence, so mail me on avnishbhagat or > add on msn messenger > > My apoligies to forum members who may not like the > views/opinions/suggestions i have posted here. You > have to go through this kind of suffering to truly > understand it. Its a 24 hr nightmare to not be able to > face the world and do common tasks that others wouldnt > think twice about doing. > > Avnish > > > > --- adam332412 <lunduner1 wrote: > > > Dear Jagbir and Violet > > > > Sorry for the delay in my response. I hope you both > > have had a pleasant Christmas and I > > wish you both further spiritual ascent and happiness > > in 2007! > > > > Thanks for your e-mails (below) which I have read > > with great interest. I feel like we have > > made progression in our understanding of each other. > > Violet, sorry if you felt I was trying > > to put words into your mouth, we have obviously > > misunderstood each other somewhere. I > > am glad we are all in agreement that SY treatments > > don't help with everything, I feel this > > should be clarified more at meetings. Jagbir, I > > think you have a well thought out attitude to > > all of this and you are down to earth, not making SY > > out to be more than it is (in regards > > to what the meditation can do for people). Okay, so > > now you have both said if I have a > > medical problem I SHOULD see a doctor....even see a > > hypnotherapist! The issue now is > > what category is my problem because different people > > will put it in different categories. > > Some would say 'yes, it is medical' others 'it is > > spiritual' some 'both'. Well this is what I was > > trying to say before. I know what you mean about > > becoming the spirit after realization and > > not going to extremes but I still feel that I have a > > problem with self-confidence and self- > > esteem (actually similar to what you described > > Violet). Now I don't believe any amount of > > meditation, work shops or anything I have come > > across in SY can cure me of this feeling as > > I have done trial and error already. I am not going > > to keep meditating for another ten years > > and see if the kundalini has cured me over time! I > > know how to temporarily fix it > > though....and I do this by exercise (boxing, > > weights, running etc). After a session of these > > activities I would say I feel content and happy with > > myself, they make me 'feel' confident > > and actually the vibrations really start flowing > > then, hence the connection between > > confidence and happiness. Now many people would say > > 'great, what's the problem then, > > keep doing it'. Well after years of doing this I > > have realized that all these activities are just > > treatments (much like foot-soaking and the like), > > they change how you feel 'temporarily' > > but the feeling soon wears off and the horrid > > feeling of no confidence returns. Thus the > > problem has not been dealt with at the root! > > Sometimes I haven't got time to go to the > > gym or whatever and I can't be left to feel dreadful > > as I'm sure you can imagine how this > > affects work, relationships etc. I didn't always > > feel the need to these activities, things have > > happened to me in my childhood/teenage years which > > have damaged my self-esteem. It is > > a sub-conscious problem from what I can tell. Now my > > friend who I said did hypnotherapy > > had a similar problem (something in the sub-consious > > bugging him). He felt meditation > > was not tackling the issue head on but running away > > from it by continually meditating to > > block it out...but stop meditating and hey presto, > > problem still there! Now from what I > > have been told and will read about, hypnotherapy > > could be what I need to sort this out. To > > go right in to the sub-consious and face these > > demons head on! I am not afraid and yes I > > know what you believe lurks down there and that is > > why you are reluctant to recommend > > it. But I can tell you both I have given everything > > a go including continual asking mother to > > help me, rid me of this feeling etc etc etc. It is > > time to try something else hence my > > original post on this matter. Meditation is great > > but something is still wrong if people feel > > '****** up' when they don't meditate...or exercise > > like me. I feel almost insulted when > > people suggest it is because I don't worship Sri > > Mataji enough. So, after what I have just > > told you, would you recommend hypnotherapy for this > > problem? Even if hypnotherapy IS > > actually spiritually connected does that necessarily > > mean it will make my problem worse? > > Hypnotherapy has helped millions of people with all > > kinds of problems and is medically > > recognized, look at all the good reports on the > > internet, I am yet to find one site with > > someone saying they got possessed by going to a > > hypnotherapist. I have to also say that > > my friend believes SY meditation contributed to the > > success of his hypnotherapy, probably > > by giving him a greater ability to introspect more > > accurately and nail the problem. I can > > appreciate why hypnotherapy might not be good for > > everyone. > > > > Regards, > > > > Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Adam, Thanks for the email and i will say hypnotherapy for me does not work. That is not to say it doesn't work at all, as with many things i believe it is different for each and every person, much like dosages in medicine or different types of medicines. Before SY i had went and spent over 1500 dollars on hypnosis sessions with someone who had been doing it for 25 years, with no change. I also went for a few sessions of NLP(nero linguistic programming), bought many subliminal affirmation cds to deal with my issues and many of the newer meditation packages that put you into various mental states (theta, delta alpha etc etc) to relax the mind and such, and none of them had the slightest affect. So for me, things like this are not of any use and do not work, but this is my case only. There are some things out there with regards to councilling that i may look into in the near future that change core beliefs and negative self talk, but right now money is an object so i will do what i can. Come to think of it, before i joined SY and had just been through one of the most painful relationships ever, after i moved back to vancouver and began over i found that a lot of the things that had bothered me and worried me didnt affect me anymore. I was to the point wherei couldnt even speak without having all these thoughts about if i used proper grammer, or if isounded confident, or if thats how i wanted to say it driving me mad. Also i used to worry what i wore and weather or not people would laugh if i wore this, or even talked or moved my hands when talking in a certain way. It was that bad. But after i moved back and faced a lot of those things they fell away as i saw they had no basis at all except for one of my main issues- fitting in. So introspection is very powerful, especially after SY. That isnt to say that other things should not be tried if needed, but for me many of the hypnotherapy things do not work. Other energy work i refuse to dabble in, as i had done before SY and damaged myself quite badly from that, so i refuse to let anyone touch me physically in a healing way using energy, asi have the only pure energy that exists, as does everyone, which is kundalini. I thank you again for the email and wish you the best of luck in tackling your issues in whatever way neccisary. regards Kyyan , " adam332412 " <lunduner1 wrote: > > Jagbir > > Thanks for all your input into this. I wish there were more yogis who run meetings with sensible views like yours. Actually, I personally have no problem declaring at meetings who Sri Mataji claims to be, the amount of new yogis that actually stay with us is so tiny that the shock factor of declaring this might actually keep people more interested!!! After- all, you go into a church or mosque and they would tell you anything they are supposed to believe as part of the religion...there is no 'hidden truth' which you find out 3 months later....if you have even bothered to stay! I understand why things are the way they are though. > > RE hypnotherapy: I recently asked one established yogi had he ever tried hypnotherapy and was met with 'NO WAY'! No consideration given that it could help some people, it's Sahajway or the highway! Saying all what I have though, I would only begin hypnotherapy sessions after deep research and as a last resort! This is my advice to anyone. Give what you hear from yogis a good go first.....but don't become brainwashed! > > Violet > > Thanks for your medical conference post! Some very interesting stuff which I will try and learn from. > > > Avnish > > Thanks for your message! Actually a few times I have gone to bed early and woke up early and HAVE noticed a difference in how I feel! I keep going to bed late though which is probably contributing to my problem. I do also drink loads of tea and no so much coffee.....I have a feeling your advice will greatly help me, glad I'm not the only one with this feeling of low confidence and to share advice, I will e-mail you. I would just like to say to everyone to be aware there are people around who can actually struggle to do things which you do without even thinking about i:e like go into a shop and try on a few different garments....why? Because we don't 'feel' confident enough and can't bear confident people talking to us confidently when we feel like this, it comes across as threatening it's that crazy! I have had to go to extremes to try and deal with this but it is still there after everything. This is why I feel something like this needs to be faced head on in the sub- consious to permanently remove it...if possible and if all else fails. > > Regards > > Adam > > > , Avnish Bhagat <avnishbhagat@> > wrote: > > > > Adam - My good Man!! > > > > For how long i have looked for someone like you, who > > has been suffering the way i have and has gotten sick > > of people telling him he does not meditate hard > > enough!!! > > > > Your mail describes perfectly the way i have been > > feeling all these years. i too have gone nuts soaking > > my feet and praying my heart out to get some > > confidence. But hang on, there is hope. I think my > > prayer finally went through and i have got a few > > answers and a few solutions. They have worked for me, > > and i think they will work for you too. In about 7 > > days time, you'll be 60% better, and that too, without > > a workout. > > > > The main cure I will tell you on personal email, the > > rest i will put here. I do hope others will not mind > > and/or try this advice unnecessarily. > > > > 1. Sleep early and wake up early - The moon affects > > you tremendously. yes, the real moon in the sky. Try > > to hit the sack earlier, maybe by 10.30 or 11 at the > > latest. Wake up at sunrise. You'll get a whole load of > > extra energy. > > > > 2. Clear only the left channel while meditating - You > > know how to balance left and right i assume. Im also > > assuming your lack of confidence comes with a certain > > amount of anxiety. Ok, so now when you sit to > > meditate, for the first 15 minutes, clear only the > > left channel. keep a candle close to the the fingers > > of the left hand and the right on the ground. Do not > > clear the right side. > > > > 3. beverages - Do you also have a problem with the > > stomach and motions? I noticed that giving up tea and > > taking 'coffee', gives that 'get up and go' energy! > > Lack of confidence usually is accompanied by the > > inability to focus on anything for long, specially > > slow conversations...at the same time, you will be a > > master at well composed mails/letters, will be > > extremely courteous and well mannered becuase you are > > relying on the energy that runs on the left channel - > > ida nadi. > > > > 4. This one is the real remedy which will give the > > confidence, so mail me on avnishbhagat@ or > > add on msn messenger > > > > My apoligies to forum members who may not like the > > views/opinions/suggestions i have posted here. You > > have to go through this kind of suffering to truly > > understand it. Its a 24 hr nightmare to not be able to > > face the world and do common tasks that others wouldnt > > think twice about doing. > > > > Avnish > > > > > > > > --- adam332412 <lunduner1@> wrote: > > > > > Dear Jagbir and Violet > > > > > > Sorry for the delay in my response. I hope you both > > > have had a pleasant Christmas and I > > > wish you both further spiritual ascent and happiness > > > in 2007! > > > > > > Thanks for your e-mails (below) which I have read > > > with great interest. I feel like we have > > > made progression in our understanding of each other. > > > Violet, sorry if you felt I was trying > > > to put words into your mouth, we have obviously > > > misunderstood each other somewhere. I > > > am glad we are all in agreement that SY treatments > > > don't help with everything, I feel this > > > should be clarified more at meetings. Jagbir, I > > > think you have a well thought out attitude to > > > all of this and you are down to earth, not making SY > > > out to be more than it is (in regards > > > to what the meditation can do for people). Okay, so > > > now you have both said if I have a > > > medical problem I SHOULD see a doctor....even see a > > > hypnotherapist! The issue now is > > > what category is my problem because different people > > > will put it in different categories. > > > Some would say 'yes, it is medical' others 'it is > > > spiritual' some 'both'. Well this is what I was > > > trying to say before. I know what you mean about > > > becoming the spirit after realization and > > > not going to extremes but I still feel that I have a > > > problem with self-confidence and self- > > > esteem (actually similar to what you described > > > Violet). Now I don't believe any amount of > > > meditation, work shops or anything I have come > > > across in SY can cure me of this feeling as > > > I have done trial and error already. I am not going > > > to keep meditating for another ten years > > > and see if the kundalini has cured me over time! I > > > know how to temporarily fix it > > > though....and I do this by exercise (boxing, > > > weights, running etc). After a session of these > > > activities I would say I feel content and happy with > > > myself, they make me 'feel' confident > > > and actually the vibrations really start flowing > > > then, hence the connection between > > > confidence and happiness. Now many people would say > > > 'great, what's the problem then, > > > keep doing it'. Well after years of doing this I > > > have realized that all these activities are just > > > treatments (much like foot-soaking and the like), > > > they change how you feel 'temporarily' > > > but the feeling soon wears off and the horrid > > > feeling of no confidence returns. Thus the > > > problem has not been dealt with at the root! > > > Sometimes I haven't got time to go to the > > > gym or whatever and I can't be left to feel dreadful > > > as I'm sure you can imagine how this > > > affects work, relationships etc. I didn't always > > > feel the need to these activities, things have > > > happened to me in my childhood/teenage years which > > > have damaged my self-esteem. It is > > > a sub-conscious problem from what I can tell. Now my > > > friend who I said did hypnotherapy > > > had a similar problem (something in the sub-consious > > > bugging him). He felt meditation > > > was not tackling the issue head on but running away > > > from it by continually meditating to > > > block it out...but stop meditating and hey presto, > > > problem still there! Now from what I > > > have been told and will read about, hypnotherapy > > > could be what I need to sort this out. To > > > go right in to the sub-consious and face these > > > demons head on! I am not afraid and yes I > > > know what you believe lurks down there and that is > > > why you are reluctant to recommend > > > it. But I can tell you both I have given everything > > > a go including continual asking mother to > > > help me, rid me of this feeling etc etc etc. It is > > > time to try something else hence my > > > original post on this matter. Meditation is great > > > but something is still wrong if people feel > > > '****** up' when they don't meditate...or exercise > > > like me. I feel almost insulted when > > > people suggest it is because I don't worship Sri > > > Mataji enough. So, after what I have just > > > told you, would you recommend hypnotherapy for this > > > problem? Even if hypnotherapy IS > > > actually spiritually connected does that necessarily > > > mean it will make my problem worse? > > > Hypnotherapy has helped millions of people with all > > > kinds of problems and is medically > > > recognized, look at all the good reports on the > > > internet, I am yet to find one site with > > > someone saying they got possessed by going to a > > > hypnotherapist. I have to also say that > > > my friend believes SY meditation contributed to the > > > success of his hypnotherapy, probably > > > by giving him a greater ability to introspect more > > > accurately and nail the problem. I can > > > appreciate why hypnotherapy might not be good for > > > everyone. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Adam > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 Dear Kyyan and all Sorry, I've left it a while since the below message. Just wanted to round this hypnotherapy thing up really as no conclusion was reached in relation to my original post on this matter. From the messages I have exchanged with people I have received nothing to indicate that hypnotherapy will damage someone. This is all I wanted to find out. Of-course there have been messages to the effect of 'why bother SY is much better' but I wasn't asking which is more effective rather does a yogi have anything to lose by trying it? The answer seems to be NO. I have not raised this topic to try and turn seekers away from SY but to ask could it help with outstanding issues that yogis have? That's all. I am currently looking into it and some of the stuff I have read and discussed with people seems to explain why some people meditate and meditate (even apply mantras and all the treatments SY has to offer) but still sometimes 'feel' bothered or disturbed in some way. This forum is about Sri Mataji so I don't want to go into-depth about how hypnotherapy might be able to help people so I'll end on saying if you are a yogi and still find yourself troubled after years of SY then get yourself a good book on the topic. You have nothing to lose contrary to what some in your collective will try and tell you without having any prior experience of it themselves. I would like to bring this to a end so if people wish to add a final brief closing comment about the above please do otherwise thanks for all your input into this. Adam , " v_koa " <v_koa wrote: > > Adam, > > Thanks for the email and i will say hypnotherapy for me does not work. That is not to say it doesn't work at all, as with many things i believe it is different for each and every person, much like dosages in medicine or different types of medicines. Before SY i had went and spent over 1500 dollars on hypnosis sessions with someone who had been doing it for 25 years, with no change. I also went for a few sessions of NLP(nero linguistic programming), bought many subliminal affirmation cds to deal with my issues and many of the newer meditation packages that put you into various mental states (theta, delta alpha etc etc) to relax the mind and such, and none of them had the slightest affect. So for me, things like this are not of any use and do not work, but this is my case only. There are some things out there with regards to councilling that i may look into in the near future that change core beliefs and negative self talk, but right now money is an object so i will do what i can. Come to think of it, before i joined SY and had just been through one of the most painful relationships ever, after i moved back to vancouver and began over i found that a lot of the things that had bothered me and worried me didnt affect me anymore. I was to the point wherei couldnt even speak without having all these thoughts about if i used proper grammer, or if isounded confident, or if thats how i wanted to say it driving me mad. Also i used to worry what i wore and weather or not people would laugh if i wore this, or even talked or moved my hands when talking in a certain way. It was that bad. But after i moved back and faced a lot of those things they fell away as i saw they had no basis at all except for one of my main issues- fitting in. So introspection is very powerful, especially after SY. That isnt to say that other things should not be tried if needed, but for me many of the hypnotherapy things do not work. Other energy work i refuse to dabble in, as i had done before SY and damaged myself quite badly from that, so i refuse to let anyone touch me physically in a healing way using energy, asi have the only pure energy that exists, as does everyone, which is kundalini. > > I thank you again for the email and wish you the best of luck in tackling your issues in whatever way neccisary. > > regards > > Kyyan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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