No one can know ... unless someone comes down from heaven and marks the right road

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

i must first thank Violet for her detailed answer which left me

pondering at the immensity of the task. Christianity is so

theologically fragmented and dogmatically divisive that it boggles

the mind. There are literally hundreds of verses and more than

22,000 splintered sects to split hairs over an entire lifetime.

 

" Once there was a single Christian group, Jesus of Nazareth’s tiny

band of twelve apostles; now there are thousands. It has been

estimated that there are some twenty-two thousand separate and

distinct Christian groups around the world. "

 

Charles Templeton, Farewell to God,

The Canadian Publishers, 1996 p. 130.

 

Can you imagine the utter chaos and confusion if all of them started

a collective debate to ascertain who holds the truth?

 

This being the case, there is no way the religious herds are going

to share their grazing grounds with those of different stripes and

colors. So is there actually no hope for these religious herds that

have been bitterly battling and defending their holy turf for

centuries? i found an interesting blog:

 

 

Monday, August 01, 2005

Religion and Contradiction

 

Recently, I had a friend tell me that all religions are right in

their own way.

 

Now, I'm no philosopher, but that didn't seem to make sense to me.

Mainly because many religions are contradictory. For example,

Buddhism denies the existence of sin. Judaism says sin is central to

understanding humanity. Since they believe opposite things, the

Buddhist and the Jew cannot both be right.

 

The Law of Non-Contradiction states that " A " and " Not A " cannot both

be true. Christianity states that Jesus is God. Islam says Jesus is

not God. They cannot both be true.

 

I know this isn't news to the sophisticated apologist or the

worldview scholar. But I'm amazed how often I run into this line of

thinking.

 

Recently, I climbed a mountain (Mt. Elbert, the highest peak in

Colorado). As I climbed, I thought about the common claim that " All

roads lead to the same destination " . I thought of the paths on the

mountain, and wondered if they all would lead me to the top. I

didn't know. To claim that I did know would have been both foolish

and arrogant. In fact, the only one who could know would be someone

who had been to the summit. Fortunately, someone who had been to the

summit had come down and marked the right trail for me.

 

The point is that no one can know whether or not all roads lead to

heaven until they die. That is unless someone comes down from heaven

and marks the right road. And if that someone also points out that

all of the other roads lead to certain death, the kind thing would

be to help out the other hikers. How intolerant of us.

 

posted by Jeff at 4:41 PM

 

www.clarityblog.blogspot.com/2005/08/religion-and-contradiction.html

 

 

" As a muslim i think not only there is no contradiction among

religions, but also they confirm each other. It's the followeres and

the leaders of religions who raise problems among people. Since the

religions have taken an evolutionary way one after the other, and

considering the time and cultural differences, the minor differences

are inevitable. But according to our holy book (koran), god has

created people with some differences, physically, culturally,... So

i think all the problems between followers is because of incomplete

and immature knowledge of human about religions and God. "

 

Shab

 

 

i also think all the problems between followers is because of

incomplete and immature knowledge of human about religions and God.

But no one can know ..... unless someone comes down from heaven and

marks the right road. And the incarnation of the Shakti/Spirit/Ruh

has come down from heaven with the Divine Message to mark the right

road for all humanity.

 

" The world is in turmoil today. People everywhere are anxious about

the future. What they need is the soothing, uniting, elevating

spiritual message of Sahaja Yoga. They have to be enabled to

experience " Self Realization " and thereby attain inner

transformation. Only then will they begin to regard all human beings

as members of one global family regardless of their race, culture

etc. Only then will they discard hatred and violence. Sahaja Yogis

have a momentous responsibility at this crucial time in human

history. They have to spread Sahaja Yoga in all the parts of the

world by written and spoken word.... For this purpose, a well

thought out approach is required. "

 

Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi proves beyond a shadow of doubt that

these " are the times described in the Holy Bible as the Last

Judgment and in the Koran as Qiyamah, the Resurrection time.

Astrologically it is also called the Age of Aquarius, the time of

rebirth and of great spiritual development on the Earth. " Every

messenger of God upheld this Divine Message and hope for all

humanity, but more than a millennium of scriptural distortion,

misinterpretation, rivalry, animosity, hatred and wars among Jews,

Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists have left them ignorant of

this collective truth. What they need is the soothing, uniting,

elevating spiritual message of Sahaja Yoga delivered by the

incarnation of the Adi Shakti(Spirit/Ruh) Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

who has come down from the heavens and taken birth on this Earth for

that very reason.

 

So instead of trying to get more than 22,000 splintered sects and

religious regimes to agree on countless doctrinal differences we

should just tell them the plain truth. All those who were great

incarnations said it with such concern, with such force. In the same

way, you have to say without any fear. We don't have to be begging

of them but we have to honour them, we have to respect them, we have

to be kind to them, but we have to give them what we have. After

all, that open and joyous announcement to fellow beings has always

been historically performed by the disciples when someone comes down

from heaven and marks the right road for humans.

 

jagbir

 

 

, " jagbir

singh " <adishakti_org wrote:

>

> " The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear its sound, but

> don't know where it comes from and where it is going. So is

> everyone who is born of the Spirit. " John 3.8

>

>

> " The Kundalini rises through a very thin line of Brahmanadi. In the

> beginning only a hair like thing rises, it pierces through; in some

> people ,of course, in a big way it rises also. And then it pierces

> this fontanel bone area which is a real baptism, real. Today only

> people felt the cool breeze coming out of their heads. Can you do

> that by jumping, or by paying money? They felt the cool breeze in

> the hand. It's written in the Bible, even in the Bible very

> clearly, that it's the cool breeze, cool breeze is the sign of the

> Holy Ghost. You start feeling the cool breeze in your hands and

> you start feeling the cool breeze on your head. This is the

> actualization.

>

> Of course, you people don't read other books which are very good,

> like Adi Shankaracharya, People don't even like the mention of his

> name who has really and clearly said that it is the cool breeze;

> the chaitanya is to be felt like cool breeze in the hands. They do

> not want that you should know the truth. And this is the truth

> that when you get your realization, you have to feel the cool

> breeze in your hands yourself. You have to judge yourself. I'm not

> going to tell you. It is you who has to see, it is you who has to

> feel, and then you have to grow and you have to know all and

> everything; all the secrets of Divine Science. You become the

> master then, you are the guru.

>

> You are the Spirit, and you should get it. It's your own which is

> given to you. I have nothing to do about it. I'm just a catalyst. "

>

> Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

> Maccabean Hall, Australia on March 22, 1981

>

>

>

> , " jagbir singh "

> <adishakti_org@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Violet,

> >

> > You told me that " Christians still do not know that they are

> > supposed to look for a Cool Breeze, because the Pentecostals

> > don't teach that. The Pentecostals teach about the Gifts of the

> > Spirit. "

> >

> > If you do not mind, can you elaborate/edit the same points and

> > post it on the forum? i think this is a major topic that needs

> > public discussion so that its manifestation and implications can

> > be compared viz a viz mainstream Christianity. The self-

> > verification of Cool Breeze experienced by those who get their

> > Second Birth from the Spirit within themselves is the force de

> > rigeur of Sahaja Yoga.

> >

> > The Pentecostal churches do not teach about the Cool Breeze

> > because their pastors have absolute no power to give Second

> > Birth.

> >

> > The Cool Breeze comes from within and this evidence must be self-

> > verified by the seeker to know that he/she is truly born of the

> > Spirit. This Divine power lies within the person, a miracle of

> > God's direct action to fulfill His Promise to humanity.

> >

> > There are tens of thousands of SYs who experience this Cool

> > Breeze daily. Let us not forget the hundreds of thousands of

> > seekers who did feel this Cool Breeze over countless numbers of

> > SY public programs and health fairs but left because, since they

> > were never told the Truth, found it no big deal as they could

> > not relate it to their religious upbringing. Perhaps in future

> > many of these seekers, and Pentecostal churchgoers too, may find

> > out that the Wind that the Disciples of Jesus felt on the Day of

> > Pentecost is a daily experience for those taking part in the

> > Resurrection and Last Judgment.

> >

> > with love and season's greetings,

> >

> >

> > jagbir

 

 

 

Dear Jagbir and All,

 

, " jagbir

singh " <adishakti_org wrote:

 

" You told me that " Christians still do not know that they are

supposed to look for a Cool Breeze, because the Pentecostals don't teach that.

The Pentecostals teach about the Gifts of the Spirit. " (End Quote)

 

(Jagbir... that is correct. Christians still do not know that they

are supposed to look for a Cool Breeze. Neither traditional christians nor

pentecostal christians know that.)

 

 

" If you do not mind, can you elaborate/edit the same points and post

it on the forum? " (End Quote)

 

(i will do my best, Jagbir. People from non-Christian spiritual

backgrounds though... may need a bit of background information first. With

discussion, spiritual understanding can perhaps be reached. There is much to

clear up and simplify in Christianity, because it has become a complicated thing

due to the

misconceptions, misinterpretions and misunderstandings that have

collected over the centuries since Shri Jesus was on Earth and gave His Pristine

Divine Teachings.)

 

 

" i think this is a major topic that needs public discussion so that

its manifestation and implications can be compared viz a viz mainstream

Christianity. The self-verification of Cool Breeze experienced by those who get

their Second Birth from the Spirit within themselves is the force de rigeur of

Sahaja Yoga. " (End Quote)

 

(i totally agree with you that this " is " a major topic that needs

public discussion. It is such a major topic that a person cannot write about it

in one post (i don't think)... and discussion brings out many points for our

collective spiritual understanding. i believe it is important that the varying

spiritual traditions develop a 'common understanding of spirituality'... which

i know you are working on 'day in day out'. After all... the original Teachers

(Incarnations)... agreed on all the basic and essential principles. And if they

are from God, why should they not agree? That which does not agree... " cannot

therefore " be from God. This is just 'plain old logic'.

 

In fact, i am sure it will be quite surprising what will come out of

such continuing discussion. i am sure it will go a long way to help reach a

collective spiritual understanding and therefore more spiritual agreement among

all people, regardless of which spiritual tradition they come from.

 

For example... Sahaja Yogis know " without any doubt whatsoever " (and

they have come from varying spiritual backgrounds too)... that they feel the

Cool Breeze of the Holy Ghost as a sign that they have had their Second Birth.

They actually feel it as a cool breeze, that is not an ordinary wind that blows

when it is a windy day. This wind also blows " when it is not a windy day " . This

happened on the Day of Pentecost. It also happens today. It cannot be replicated

or conjured

or manufactured. It is the Living Spirit that produces the Divine

Wind. It is written about in the Koran and in the Bible and mystics from various

spiritual traditions also wrote about it in poetry.

 

However, this Truth has remained unknown by both traditional

christians and pentecostal christians. Why is this so? What could be the reason?

At least the pentecostal christians are trying to get some understanding on it,

however, as they are following Apostle Paul's teachings instead of Shri Jesus,

the Christ's teachings... they have somewhat gone 'off the straight and narrow'

that leads to

the Kingdom of God within. The shocking truth that Christians need

to realise is that Pauline Christianity and Jesus the Christ's teachings

actually do not agree in a lot of ways. For example, Shri Jesus said that the

sign of the Holy Spirit is " like the Wind but you do not know where it comes

from and where it is going " ... whereas the followers of Apostle Paul say that

" speaking in tongues "

is the sign of the coming of the Holy Spirit. Apostle Paul, in fact

says: " I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all. " (I Corinthians 14:18

- KJV)

 

Jagbir... over time, we could take each individual teaching of Paul

and compare it to each comparable individual teaching of Jesus, the Christ...

and 'that way' remove the 'smoke-and-mirrors' effect... so everyone can see

plainly what theologians also now see. This is that Pauline Christianity and

Jesus's teachings are different. The more a person researches into this... the

more they will be dismayed at the differences. (This does not mean that

everything is in disagreement; however, there should not be discrepancy on so

many points.)

Apostle Paul seems to misunderstand what Shri Jesus taught. It only

takes a little misunderstanding to eventuate in a chasm of

misunderstanding... over time.

 

The thing is... " Sahaja Yogis know " ... that a person cannot receive

their Second Birth and subsequent spiritual gifts by a minister putting some

'power' into the person 'as in the pentecostal way'. Apostle Paul was a

pentecostal. As stated already, he said: " I speak in tongues more than you all. "

(I Corinthians 14:18) However, i have never once heard of Shri Jesus Christ even

mentioning about

" speaking in tongues " . i have heard about the disciples of Jesus

experiencing the Wind on the Day of Pentecost, and them seeing tongues of flames

over their heads, and they spoke in different languages, which the Holy Spirit

gave them utterance, so that they could give the message out in many languages.

However, even at the Day of Pentecost, there is no mention of " speaking in

tongues " as in

the 'pentecostal glossolalia experience'. Apostle Paul was not an

initiate of Shri Jesus. He was not even born while Shri Jesus was on Earth.

So... where did Paul get initiated into " speaking in tongues " in the first

place? None of this is mentioned by him in the bible. Maybe he wanted the

Baptism of the Holy Spirit so badly that he ended up " speaking in tongues " ... if

you know what i mean. However, Sahaja Yogis do not speak in tongues. There is

something 'not quite

right' about this 'speaking in tongues' business.

 

In fact... Sahaja Yogis " know " ... that the Holy Spirit Power is

within the person, and located in their Sacrum Bone... until it awakens. This

Holy Spirit Power is called the " Kundalini Power " . It cannot be passed on from

someone who does not have this kundalini power awakened in them. When this

dormant energy awakens (usually through a catalyst, which is someone who already

has it

awakened within themselves)... the Kundalini Power (the Holy Spirit

Herself) arises and baptises the person.

 

No external person can give another person the Baptism of the Holy

Spirit. Only the Holy Spirit, Adi Shakti, Ruh of Allah, Shekinah, Great Mother,

Aykaa Mayee, Maitreya (depending upon which Name you prefer to call Her)... CAN

ALONE GIVE IT TO YOU. She is your Individual Spiritual Mother within you... that

give you your

Spiritual Birth... just as you have a physcial mother that gives you

your physical birth. However, your Spiritual Mother incarnates with you from

lifetime to lifetime. She knows you 'heaps better' than your physical mother can

ever possibly know you... and that is not to disparage your physical mother. It

is just a fact.)

 

 

" The Pentecostal churches do not teach about the Cool Breeze because

their pastors have absolute no power to give Second Birth. " (End Quote)

 

(This is the thing. Pentecostal pastors have not had their kundalini

energy awakened themselves. Most probably do not even " know " about the kundalini

energy within the sacrum bone (sacred bone) because all Hindu knowledge was

rejected by christians. Now however, many pentecostals are looking at other

spiritual traditions for knowledge they do not have, so things may be changing.

However, in a lot of cases, it is just to find better answers that suit their

own religious theories, which is not the same as just having an open

heart and mind to find out what is the Absolute Truth... come what may.

 

That is also why Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi has incarnated... to give

them (and others) the Absolute Truth on all these subjects... setting the record

straight regarding all the misconceptions and misinterpretations... so they will

not have to remain in spiritual ignorance and spiritual division between the

different

christian denominations and other spiritual traditions as well.

After all... we are all part and parcel of one human family. After all... there

is only ONE UNITED KINGDOM OF GOD. If you are 'for division' you cannot enter

this kingdom. Only those who want to be united in Spirit, can enter this

kingdom. There are not separate Kingdoms of God for the different christian

denominations and/or

different spiritual traditions. We are going to have to come

to " some " Spiritual Unity therefore, first from within... and then this will

manifest without.

 

No incarnation came to create religions which divide people

according to man-made doctrines and dogmas. Study Shri Jesus Christ's teachings,

and you will find no such doctrines and dogmas which Apostle Paul teaches. Once

Christians realise the Absolute Truth... then they too will come to know the

Cool Breeze of

the Holy Ghost... as experienced by the disciples of Jesus on the

Day of Pentecost.

 

Pentecostals stress the " Day of Pentecost " very much. They even take

their 'name' from that 'Day of Pentecost'. It should be their spiritual

birthright therefore, to have a correct understanding of these things. When

pentecostals find out the Absolute Truth on this subject and live it, there will

be no stopping them. The positive message of the Last Judgment and Resurrection

will then spread like wildfire. There will be no hesitation on that major

subject, as

it is with WCASY and followers of WCASY.)

 

 

" The Cool Breeze comes from within and this evidence must be self-

verified by the seeker to know that he/she is truly born of the Spirit. This

Divine power lies within the person, a miracle of God's direct action to fulfill

His Promise to humanity.

 

There are tens of thousands of SYs who experience this Cool Breeze

daily. Let us not forget the hundreds of thousands of seekers who did feel this

Cool Breeze over countless numbers of SY public programs and health fairs but

left because, since they were never told the Truth, found it no big deal as they

could not relate it to their religious upbringing. Perhaps in future many of

these seekers, and Pentecostal churchgoers too, may find out that the Wind that

the

Disciples of Jesus felt on the Day of Pentecost is a daily experience for those

taking part in the Resurrection and Last Judgment. " (End Quote)

 

(That many seekers and pentecostal churchgoers will find out that

the Wind that the Disciples of Jesus felt on the Day of Pentecost is a daily

experience for those taking part in the Resurrection and Last Judgment... is the

desired outcome and why we work hard at getting this most important message out.

Shri Mataji has asked us no less than to declare that She is the Holy Ghost and

that She has come for this special time, which is the Resurrection Time:

 

" Declare to all the nations now, that I am the Holy Ghost and I have

come for this special time... that is the resurrection time " .

(Birthday Puja - Sydney - 21 March 1983)

 

 

 

'Therefore'... taking account of all the above facts... 'as

stated'... i feel it is important to give some background information upon which

to base an understanding of Christianity and the Second Birth. Facts which have

already been stated above, may be repeated in going over this expansive subject

that includes the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Second Birth, self-realisation,

salvation (a.k.a. spiritual liberation)... and so forth. This will

probably not be the only discussion on it either, because as Jagbir has said...

many things need to be discussed. However... these are the really essential and

pivotal subjects that need to be addressed... as everything else revolves around

these basic essentials.

 

How many times did Shri Mataji repeat the very same things... over

and over again in different ways? So... please bear with those who go into the

" nitty gritty " of it all. " Pauline Christianity is not a simple thing " . It is

quite complicated. This is because instead of following the Christ's teachings

and applying those teachings to their lives, people started to follow Apostle

Paul's (and other) man-made teachings instead. When this happens, things get

complicated! You could compare it to how it is much easier to follow Shri

Mataji's teachings of Truth because of their 'consistency' rather

than trying to follow WCASY's truths because of their

'inconsistencies'. Absolute Truth is never inconsistent. That is why it is known

as " Absolute Truth " . Whenever their is some

'inconsistency'... you can be sure that man has put his edit on it in

some way.

 

'The thing is'... whenever 'man' puts stress on something out of

character with the way the Incarnation 'gave it'... great complications happen

which increase in complexity over time. The complications may not be apparent

'early in the piece' but 'down the track'... a chasm of misunderstanding and

misinterpretation of the Incarnation's teachings becomes apparent. 'Today'...

this is quite

noticeable with regards to Apostle Paul's teachings, which is why

theologians call his the " Pauline Christianity " . It is not any more Jesus the

Christ's Christianity... you see! And as stated, theologians are very aware of

this already.

 

The important thing to remember about Paul, though... is that he was

not there when Jesus, the Christ was on Earth. He was not a disciple of Jesus.

'Bluntly speaking'... Shri Mataji has called the Apostle Paul " an imposter " in

fact. This might be shocking to some, however this is what the Incarnation of

the Holy Spirit, Shri Mataji... has told Sahaja Yogis. Apostle Paul seems to

have usurped Shri Jesus's teachings, and this will probably be revealed ever

more clearly on

detailed examination of Jesus's teachings in comparison with what

Apostle Paul teaches. It is common sense to do this. It is a logical thing to do

too. We have to be like scientists and compare what the Incarnations said... to

what mere man says. When they do not tally, then something has gone amiss.

 

 

NOTE: Christians use and read different versions of the Bible. They

don't generally confine themselves to the King James Version. They like to make

comparative studies, using the different versions. This can be easily seen if a

person searches the Christian Bible Study Websites where they will find all the

comparative versions given. The reason for this is so that people can get the

maximum of spiritual meaning and understanding from the scriptures. What a

person may not grasp the full meaning of in one version... they may

be able to ascertain from another version.

 

Also... depending on the particular passage or verse of the bible

being studied, the best translation can also be found that best suits one's own

spiritual and/or church worldview. i have noticed that in christendom in

general... that certain versions of the Bible are sometimes considered to be

more compatible than others. Often the scholars worked with particular

denominational worldviews

in mind. However, to the nominal christian... or reader from another

spiritual tradition... this difference will not be picked up, because a person

has to know what they are looking for. There are times when i have been

disappointed with 'modern-day-version-rendering of the Bible' with regard to

particular scriptural

passages... and therefore have opted for the King James Version.

 

However, the King James Version contains many words that are not in

common English usage anymore; after all its first publication was in 1611:

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Bible) This makes instant comprehension

difficult at times... especially for the young people. So... although different

congregations may recommend a particular version, they will most probably leave

it to the individual to choose their preferred version. In my experience, i have

not found any hard or fast rule about it. At the very least

anyway... the King James Version is not touted the way it used to be. There is

not this strict adherence to the King James Version of the Bible anymore like

there used to be.

 

All in all, i don't think i would be too far wrong in saying that

the KJV is mainly used as a 'backup-base-line-of-reference' and the

'church-accepted-and-preferred-version' or the 'minister's-preferred-

version' will generally be used instead. As stated already, this tends to vary

from denomination to denomination and even from church to church in some

cases... in my experience. Ministers usually state what version they are reading

from at a church service. Also... as already stated... having the young people

understand the bible is of the " most vital importance " to christian churches

today.

 

 

The difference between Traditional Christians and Pentecostal

Christians...

 

To start with... in the 1960's and 70's, non-pentecostalism

(traditional christianity) and pentecostalism were very clearly divided

according to what chapter of Apostle Paul's teaching a congregation followed. In

particular... if the congregation followed chapter 12 of his First Epistle to

the Corinthians... which is about " the Gifts of the Spirit " , then the

congregation or church were

" pentecostal " . If you did not follow chapter 12 about " the Gifts of

the Spirit " ... then you were " not " a pentecostal.

 

Traditional christians ignored chapter 12 in favour of chapter 13

which is about " Love " . Traditional christians also followed what is called " the

Fruits of the Spirit " ... which is comparable to " the Qualities of the Spirit " in

Sahaja Yoga.

 

The best way to understand this difference is to read both chapters

12 and 13... keeping in mind that 'pentecostals particularly stress' chapter 12

(while also accepting chapter 13) and non-pentecostals mostly choose to ignore

chapter 12, preferring to opt for chapter 13. Pentecostals stress " The Gifts of

the Spirit " , while non-pentecostals stress " Love " and " the Fruits of the

Spirit " . Whereas

pentecostals believe that the Gifts of the Spirit are given today,

non-pentecostals believe that they were given " Once-Off " in the

earlier Spiritual Dispensation when Jesus was on Earth 'For them'... 'it does

not happen today'. (At least... that is what their pastors and priests tell

them.)

 

Here then is the biblical passage about " the Fruits of the

Spirit " ... after which i have appended chapters 12 (The Gifts of the Spirit) and

chapter 13 (Love):

 

 

" Fruits of the Spirit "

The Epistle of Paul to the Galatians (New International Version) -

 

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience,

kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such

things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the

sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let

us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and

envying each other. (Galatians 5:22-26)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galations%

205; & version=31;

 

 

" Spiritual Gifts "

The First Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians (New International

Version)-

 

1 Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be

ignorant. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were

influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I tell you that no one who

is speaking by the Spirit of God says, " Jesus be cursed, " and no one can say,

" Jesus is Lord, " except by the Holy Spirit.

 

4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There

are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds

of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.

 

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the

common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom,

to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another

faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to

another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing

between spirits, to

another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another

the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same

Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

 

12 The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and

though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13 For

we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave

or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

 

14 Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15 If the

foot should say, " Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body, " it

would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16 And if the ear should

say, " Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body, " it would not for

that reason cease to be part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye,

where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would

the sense of

smell be? 18 But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body,

every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were all one part,

where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

 

21 The eye cannot say to the hand, " I don't need you! " And the head

cannot say to the feet, " I don't need you! " 22 On the contrary, those parts of

the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and the parts that we

think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are

unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24 while our presentable parts

need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has

given greater

honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no

division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each

other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is

honored, every part rejoices with it.

 

27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of

it. 28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second

prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of

healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and

those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all

prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of

healing? Do all speak in

tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire[e] the greater

gifts. And now I will show you the most excellent way. (I Corinthians 12:1-31)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=I%20Corinthians%2012:1-

31; & version=3\1;

 

 

" Love "

The First Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians (New International

Version) -

 

1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love,

I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of

prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith

that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I

possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I

gain nothing.

 

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not

boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not

easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil

but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes,

always perseveres.

 

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease;

where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will

pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection

comes, the imperfect disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I

thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put

childish ways

behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then

we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as

I am fully known.

 

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the

greatest of these is love. (I Corinthians 13:1-13)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53 & chapter=13 & version=31

 

 

 

Jagbir... traditional christians follow chapter 13. They believe in

the excellence of love and therefore choose to ignore or turn a blind eye to the

spiritual gifts. Pentecostals, on the other hand... accept both chapters. They

believe what Apostle Paul said, which is that the spiritual gifts are important

to pursue. It is a well-known fact, therefore... that each generally disapproves

of the other's stance. Traditional christians consider " speaking in tongues " to

be a spiritual aberration and a sign of fanaticism. In other words,

they consider pentecostals to be fanatical.

 

On the other hand, pentecostal christians tend to consider

traditional christians 'not to be following the Full Gospel'. After all...

Apostle Paul admitted to 'speaking in tongues'. He said: " I thank God, I speak

in tongues more than you all; " (I Corinthians 14:18) Apostle Paul was therefore

'a pentecostal' and not a traditionalist. Apostle Paul also refers to the

'speaking in tongues' to be the lowliest spiritual gift... 'yet with special

honour':

 

" And the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with

special honor " (I Corinthians 12:23)

 

This is why pentecostals believe that 'speaking in tongues' has the

special honour to be the sign that someone has received their 'Baptism of the

Holy Spirit'. That is why... if a pentecostal is not yet able to 'speak in

tongues'... they will have another 'laying on of hands' by the minister to

ensure this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laying_on_of_hands)

 

Because it is an 'actual experience'... pentecostalism has grown in

leaps and bounds. People believe in the pentecostal 'Baptism of the Holy Spirit'

because they have had 'an experience' and because they can 'speak in tongues'.

It is a powerful aberration over the human psychosomatic system. However, i

'have been there and done that' and i am a Sahaja Yogi now, and i know that this

is not the real Baptism of the Holy Spirit at all. Just like traditional

Christians

believe... it is fanaticism. The sign of the real Baptism of the

Holy Spirit is the Cool Breeze of the Holy Spirit... and this is according to

Jesus. Nowhere have i read Shri Jesus saying that 'some sort of speaking in

tongues' is a sign of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit!:

 

Words of Shri Jesus...

 

" The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do

not know where it comes from and where it is going; SO IS EVERYONE WHO IS BORN

OF THE SPIRIT " (John 3:8)

 

Therefore i challenge any pentecostal to find any teaching from

Jesus, because it is not there. It is Apostle Paul's teaching. It is " Pauline

Christianity " ... not the Incarnation's teachings. However, thousands of Sahaja

Yogis have had their real Baptism of the Holy Spirit... as evidenced by a Cool

Breeze of the Holy Ghost... just as Jesus describes in John 3:8. This is the

real

Baptism. The Cool Breeze is an experience too. It also cannot be faked. And not

one Sahaja Yogi has 'spoken in tongues'.

 

However, unlike the 60's and 70's... from what i can see...

pentecostalism seems to be in the ascendancy now. Many people are being 'taken

in' by it. Many freelance pentecostal preachers are also teaching even further

aberrations as they get deeper and deeper into the collective subconscious

(past) and supraconscious (future). The place to be is in the collective

superconsciousness, which is to be in the present or presence of Holy Spirit

Power.

 

So... the dharma is in shambles, because with fanaticism comes

psychosomatic imbalance. Looking back to my time in pentecostalism and being

able to use Sahaj Understanding to describe it... i can say that it drained me.

It was exhausting with highs and lows, like a drug that you filled up on each

Sunday, Wednesday, and Friday. All you have to do is check out a pentecostal

service, and you will

see what i am talking about.

 

Nevertheless... this is what is preached:

 

" Speaking in other tongues was the first physical manifestation of

the Holy Spirit baptism throughout the book of Acts (Acts 2:4; 10:46; 19:6).

Once you have asked for this baptism, ask God to anoint you. Then in praise and

worship, wait for the anointing. This witness of tongues will come forth. Expect

it! Rejoice in it! You are a unique individual, and your experiences will be

your

own.

 

God wants us to communicate with Him, learn about Him, hear His

voice, do His will and be baptized with His Spirit. He also wants us to conform

to the example given us by the Holy Spirit to help you accomplish all of the

things that are important. The Holy Spirit contributes to your life every moment

of every day. He helps you understand the Bible, He teaches you truth, and helps

you to pray.

 

One of the principles of the Kingdom of God concerns being in

agreement with Him and with another person as you pray. Be encouraged to ask a

Spirit-filled Christian such as one of our prayer partners to pray with you. "

http://crossroads.ca/response/baptism.htm

(End Quote)

 

i therefore agree with what you say Jagbir that " perhaps in future

many of these seekers, and Pentecostal churchgoers too, may find out that the

Wind that the Disciples of Jesus felt on the Day of Pentecost is a daily

experience for those taking part in the Resurrection and Last Judgment " .

 

warmest regards,

 

violet

[Guest guest]

, " jagbir

singh " <adishakti_org wrote:

 

" Christianity is so theologically fragmented and dogmatically divisive that it

boggles the mind. There are literally hundreds of verses and more than 22,000

splintered sects to split hairs over an entire lifetime. "

 

 

Dear Jagbir and All,

 

One of the major theological debates within Christianity, is the one about " free

will " vs. " predestination " .

 

Advocates of 'Pre-destination' believe that certain people are pre-destined by

God to come to spiritual liberation and others are not. Alternatively...

advocates of " Free Will " believe that every human being has the opportunity to

turn to God at any time, and that God does not pre-destine this for them.

 

Logically speaking... God cannot " pre-destine " a person's choice in advance...

and then still claim to be giving that person their " free will " ! However, God

has implemented reincarnation, so that people will re-'incarnate' lifetime after

lifetime, until they learn all the spiritual lessons, that finally lead to their

salvation or spiritual liberation. Then... at the end of a Cosmic Cycle... comes

the Time of Last Judgment and Resurrection. It is the Harvest Time.

 

At this Time, those who have learned their spiritual lessons... will graduate.

God takes them into His Granary, after separating the 'wheat' from the 'chaff'.

Those who have not yet learned their lessons after a whole Cosmic Cycle of

incarnating again and again... will have to go through a new Cosmic Cycle with

all its stages from 'cultivation' to 'planting' to 'harvest'. According to the

Mayans, the Cosmic Evolutionary Cycle is 26,000 years.

(http://adishakti.org/mayan_end_times_prophecy_12-21-2012.htm)

 

The Great Evolutionary Cycle is the " Great Grace of God " in bringing all people

into spiritual liberation. In it are the elements of both " free will and

pre-destination " . Yes... we are " pre-destined " through our " free will " to come

to our salvation; to our spiritual liberation. This all happens through

" re-incarnation " . One lifetime is not enough time to 'reap' what a person

'sows'. If a person 'sows the good seed'... they will 'reap the good harvest'.

If a person 'sows the bad seed'... they will 'reap the bad harvest'. It is the

'reincarnational law of life' that Shri Jesus and Shri Mataji have taught.

 

However Christians are taught to reject this spiritual law of reincarnation...

even though in reality and unbeknownst to them... they " are " actually

reincarnating. To deny the Doctrine of Reincarnation does not do away with the

fact of reincarnation. Just one of the defences Christians give for not

accepting the Doctrine of Reincarnation is:

 

" It can't be right because if people believe they have more than one lifetime to

live, then they will continue to sin, and then the death of Jesus on the cross

will have been in vain. "

 

Most Christians do not even know the real reason why they don't believe in

reincarnation. i will tell them the real reason. The real reason is that it was

scrapped at the Council of Nicea, because the priesthood did not like it. The

reason the priesthood did not like it was because " reincarnation " gave the

people too much spiritual liberty. It suited the priests for the people to be

subject to them. They instilled into the people that they only have one life to

live to 'get it right'... and if they did not 'get it right' that then they

would be subject to eternal damnation. That gave them a lot of power over the

people. Shri Mataji has taught that this is a devilish thing that the priesthood

have exercised over the people.

 

So... the real reason why most Christians reject reincarnation... is because the

Christian Priesthood wanted them to. Therefore, i can only re-iterate that: " i

also think all the problems between followers is because of incomplete and

immature knowledge of human about religions and God. But no one can know .....

unless someone comes down from heaven and marks the right road. And the

incarnation of the Shakti/Spirit/Ruh has come down from heaven with the Divine

Message to mark the right road for all humanity. "

 

violet

 

 

" Christianity has not said much on the subject of death. " Christ, if they had

allowed Him to live He would have talked about it; but He has said that Spirit

is eternal. He has talked of reincarnation, no doubt. "

 

Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

(Diwali Puja Synopsis - Cabella - 10 November, 1991)

 

 

" Christians who believe they are chosen by God and will be resurrected after

centuries are very egoistical. This is a myth, a mistake. These people are not

chosen by God; otherwise, how can they commit so many sins? They're not even

afraid of God. They do everything openly. They go to church on Sundays, and all

week they'll do all kinds of nonsensical things openly and come and confess to

the priest, who himself is a sinner. He's not authorised by God.

 

Every religion has its problems. In India there's no religion as such. It's not

organised; there's no hierarchy and anybody can become a priest. Here they call

them saints when they are dead. What's the use of dead saints? I was born in a

Christian family so that I could know all this nonsense. My father blamed Paul

for all this, but how is it that in Jewish Scriptures they have the same thing?

The worst is the Koran. Mohammed couldn't read or write, so his followers claim

to remember His revelations by heart for 40 years. Can anyone remember even one

of My lectures by heart after listening to it? You can't and you are realized

souls. The man who edited the Koran was a useless man, " the worst possible man, "

a hater of women, just like Paul, but much worse. He killed the man who should

have written the Koran, the second Kalifa and his children. Paul may have been

his reincarnation.

 

Paul never even met Christ, and just made up lies. And we know what he saw was

supra-conscious. Actually, he was a bureaucrat who killed one of Christ's

disciples, Stephen, and saw Christianity as a good platform to jump on for his

forum. He fought with everyone. Thomas disappeared and his treatises were found

50 years ago in Egypt. It's all sahaja. Peter is the worst disciple of Christ,

and he joined hands with Paul. They put in the Bible that the keys were given to

Peter. It was a combination of evil. Even Kahlil Gibran has written about Paul,

but nobody wants to take notice. It's still " saint Paul, " even when they became

Protestants. Martin Luther was a realized soul, but he wanted to please the

Muslims so he didn't talk about the primordial mother or women. They said take

out your eyes. Even if you look at a woman a second time, it's a sin, so take

out your eyes. "

 

Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

SUMMARY OF TALK TO SPANISH SAHAJA YOGIS - OCTOBER 12, 1994

(End Quote)

 

 

Christian Reincarnation

The Council of Nicea

 

In June 325 the council opened and continued for two months, with Constantine

attending. The bishops modified an existing creed to fit their purposes. The

creed, with some changes made at a later fourth century council, is still given

today in many churches. The Nicene Creed, as it came to be called, takes

elaborate care by repeating several redundancies to identify the Son with the

Father rather than with the creation:

 

" We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of all things visible and

invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten of

his Father, of the substance of the Father, God of God, Light of Light, very God

of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father. By

whom all things were made ... Who ... was incarnate and was made human...”

 

Only two bishops, along with Arius, refused to sign the creed. Constantine

banished them from the empire, while the other bishops went on to celebrate

their unity in a great feast at the imperial palace.

 

The creed is much more than an affirmation of Jesus' divinity. It is also an

affirmation of our separation from God and Christ. It takes great pains to

describe Jesus as God in order to deny that he is part of God's creation. He is

" begotten, not made, " therefore totally separate from us, the created beings.

As scholar George Leonard Prestige writes, the Nicene Creed's description of

Jesus tells us " that the Son of God bears no resemblance to the ... creatures. "

 

The description of Jesus as the only Son of God is carried forward in the

Apostles' Creed, which is used in many Protestant churches today. It reads: " I

believe in God, the Father Almighty... I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son,

our Lord. " But even that language - calling Jesus God's only Son - denies that

we can ever attain the sonship that Jesus did.

 

Christians may be interested to know that many scholars analyzing the Bible now

believe that Jesus never claimed to be the only Son of God. This was a later

development based on a misinterpretation of the gospel of John.

 

There is further evidence to suggest that Jesus believed all people could

achieve the goal of becoming Sons of God. But the churches, by retaining these

creeds, remain in bondage to Constantine and his three hundred bishops.

 

Some of the bishops who attended the council were uncomfortable with the

council's definition of the Son and thought they might have gone too far. But

the emperor, in a letter sent to the bishops who were not in attendance at

Nicea, required that they accept " this truly Divine injunction. "

 

Constantine said that since the council's decision had been " determined in the

holy assemblies of the bishops, " the Church officials must regard it as

" indicative of the Divine will. "

 

The Roman god Constantine had spoken. Clearly, he had concluded that the

orthodox position was more conducive to a strong and unified Church than the

Arian position and that it therefore must be upheld.

 

Constantine also took the opportunity to inaugurate the first systematic

government persecution of dissident Christians. He issued an edict against

" heretics, " calling them " haters and enemies of truth and life, in league with

destruction. "

 

Even though he had begun his reign with an edict of religious toleration, he now

forbade the heretics (mostly Arians) to assemble in any public or private place,

including private homes, and ordered that they be deprived of " every gathering

point for [their] superstitious meetings, " including " all the houses of prayer. "

These were to be given to the orthodox Church.

 

There heretical teachers were forced to flee, and many of their students were

coerced back into the orthodox fold. The emperor also ordered a search for

their books, which were to be confiscated and destroyed. Hiding the works of

Arius carried a severe penalty - the death sentence.

 

Nicea, nevertheless, marked the beginning of the end of the concepts of both

preexistence, reincarnation, and salvation through union with God in Christian

doctrine. It took another two hundred years for the ideas to be expunged.

 

But Constantine had given the Church the tools with which to do it when he

molded Christianity in his own image and made Jesus the only Son of God. From

now on, the Church would become representative of a capricious and autocratic

God - a God who was not unlike Constantine and other Roman emperors.

 

Tertullian, a stanch anti-Origenian and a father of the Church, had this to say

about those who believed in reincarnation and not the resurrection of the dead:

" What a panorama of spectacle on that day (the Resurrection)! What sight should

I turn to first to laugh and applaud? ... Wise philosophers, blushing before

their students as they burn together, the followers to whom they taught that the

world is no concern of God’s, whom they assured that either they had no souls at

all or that what souls they had would never return to their former bodies? ....

These are things of greater delight, I believe, than a circus, both kinds of

theater, and any stadium. " Tertullian was a great influence in having so-called

" heretics " put to death.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/origen6.html

 

Christian Reincarnation

The Long Forgotten Doctrine

 

Does it make any ultimate difference in the religious life whether or not one

believes in reincarnation? I believe there are much greater priorities in a

spiritual life than whether one does or does not accept a particular theological

tenet. Those who are still irresolute on the question of reincarnation, or

indeed those who are emphatically resolute in one direction or another, possess

no special advantage before God. The only possible advantage that the

reincarnationist may claim over those who are unresolved or opposed is that he

has a reasonable and consistent theory to account for the prenatal and

postmortem life of the soul as well as an explanation for the apparent

absurdities in the dispensation of divine justice.

http://reluctant-messenger.com/origen.html

 

 

 

> Dear All,

>

> i must first thank Violet for her detailed answer which left me

> pondering at the immensity of the task. Christianity is so

> theologically fragmented and dogmatically divisive that it boggles

> the mind. There are literally hundreds of verses and more than

> 22,000 splintered sects to split hairs over an entire lifetime.

>

> " Once there was a single Christian group, Jesus of Nazareth's tiny

> band of twelve apostles; now there are thousands. It has been

> estimated that there are some twenty-two thousand separate and

> distinct Christian groups around the world. "

>

> Charles Templeton, Farewell to God,

> The Canadian Publishers, 1996 p. 130.

>

> Can you imagine the utter chaos and confusion if all of them started

> a collective debate to ascertain who holds the truth?

>

> This being the case, there is no way the religious herds are going

> to share their grazing grounds with those of different stripes and

> colors. So is there actually no hope for these religious herds that

> have been bitterly battling and defending their holy turf for

> centuries? i found an interesting blog:

>

>

> Monday, August 01, 2005

> Religion and Contradiction

>

> Recently, I had a friend tell me that all religions are right in

> their own way.

>

> Now, I'm no philosopher, but that didn't seem to make sense to me.

> Mainly because many religions are contradictory. For example,

> Buddhism denies the existence of sin. Judaism says sin is central to

> understanding humanity. Since they believe opposite things, the

> Buddhist and the Jew cannot both be right.

>

> The Law of Non-Contradiction states that " A " and " Not A " cannot both

> be true. Christianity states that Jesus is God. Islam says Jesus is

> not God. They cannot both be true.

>

> I know this isn't news to the sophisticated apologist or the

> worldview scholar. But I'm amazed how often I run into this line of

> thinking.

>

> Recently, I climbed a mountain (Mt. Elbert, the highest peak in

> Colorado). As I climbed, I thought about the common claim that " All

> roads lead to the same destination " . I thought of the paths on the

> mountain, and wondered if they all would lead me to the top. I

> didn't know. To claim that I did know would have been both foolish

> and arrogant. In fact, the only one who could know would be someone

> who had been to the summit. Fortunately, someone who had been to the

> summit had come down and marked the right trail for me.

>

> The point is that no one can know whether or not all roads lead to

> heaven until they die. That is unless someone comes down from heaven

> and marks the right road. And if that someone also points out that

> all of the other roads lead to certain death, the kind thing would

> be to help out the other hikers. How intolerant of us.

>

> posted by Jeff at 4:41 PM

>

> www.clarityblog.blogspot.com/2005/08/religion-and-contradiction.html

>

>

> " As a muslim i think not only there is no contradiction among

> religions, but also they confirm each other. It's the followeres and

> the leaders of religions who raise problems among people. Since the

> religions have taken an evolutionary way one after the other, and

> considering the time and cultural differences, the minor differences

> are inevitable. But according to our holy book (koran), god has

> created people with some differences, physically, culturally,... So

> i think all the problems between followers is because of incomplete

> and immature knowledge of human about religions and God. "

>

> Shab

>

>

> i also think all the problems between followers is because of

> incomplete and immature knowledge of human about religions and God.

> But no one can know ..... unless someone comes down from heaven and

> marks the right road. And the incarnation of the Shakti/Spirit/Ruh

> has come down from heaven with the Divine Message to mark the right

> road for all humanity.

>

> " The world is in turmoil today. People everywhere are anxious about

> the future. What they need is the soothing, uniting, elevating

> spiritual message of Sahaja Yoga. They have to be enabled to

> experience " Self Realization " and thereby attain inner

> transformation. Only then will they begin to regard all human beings

> as members of one global family regardless of their race, culture

> etc. Only then will they discard hatred and violence. Sahaja Yogis

> have a momentous responsibility at this crucial time in human

> history. They have to spread Sahaja Yoga in all the parts of the

> world by written and spoken word.... For this purpose, a well

> thought out approach is required. "

>

> Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi proves beyond a shadow of doubt that

> these " are the times described in the Holy Bible as the Last

> Judgment and in the Koran as Qiyamah, the Resurrection time.

> Astrologically it is also called the Age of Aquarius, the time of

> rebirth and of great spiritual development on the Earth. " Every

> messenger of God upheld this Divine Message and hope for all

> humanity, but more than a millennium of scriptural distortion,

> misinterpretation, rivalry, animosity, hatred and wars among Jews,

> Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists have left them ignorant of

> this collective truth. What they need is the soothing, uniting,

> elevating spiritual message of Sahaja Yoga delivered by the

> incarnation of the Adi Shakti(Spirit/Ruh) Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

> who has come down from the heavens and taken birth on this Earth for

> that very reason.

>

> So instead of trying to get more than 22,000 splintered sects and

> religious regimes to agree on countless doctrinal differences we

> should just tell them the plain truth. All those who were great

> incarnations said it with such concern, with such force. In the same

> way, you have to say without any fear. We don't have to be begging

> of them but we have to honour them, we have to respect them, we have

> to be kind to them, but we have to give them what we have. After

> all, that open and joyous announcement to fellow beings has always

> been historically performed by the disciples when someone comes down

> from heaven and marks the right road for humans.

>

> jagbir

>

>

> , " jagbir

> singh " <adishakti_org@> wrote:

> >

> > " The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear its sound, but

> > don't know where it comes from and where it is going. So is

> > everyone who is born of the Spirit. " John 3.8

> >

> >

> > " The Kundalini rises through a very thin line of Brahmanadi. In

the

> > beginning only a hair like thing rises, it pierces through; in

some

> > people ,of course, in a big way it rises also. And then it pierces

> > this fontanel bone area which is a real baptism, real. Today only

> > people felt the cool breeze coming out of their heads. Can you do

> > that by jumping, or by paying money? They felt the cool breeze in

> > the hand. It's written in the Bible, even in the Bible very

> > clearly, that it's the cool breeze, cool breeze is the sign of the

> > Holy Ghost. You start feeling the cool breeze in your hands and

> > you start feeling the cool breeze on your head. This is the

> > actualization.

> >

> > Of course, you people don't read other books which are very good,

> > like Adi Shankaracharya, People don't even like the mention of his

> > name who has really and clearly said that it is the cool breeze;

> > the chaitanya is to be felt like cool breeze in the hands. They do

> > not want that you should know the truth. And this is the truth

> > that when you get your realization, you have to feel the cool

> > breeze in your hands yourself. You have to judge yourself. I'm not

> > going to tell you. It is you who has to see, it is you who has to

> > feel, and then you have to grow and you have to know all and

> > everything; all the secrets of Divine Science. You become the

> > master then, you are the guru.

> >

> > You are the Spirit, and you should get it. It's your own which is

> > given to you. I have nothing to do about it. I'm just a catalyst. "

> >

> > Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

> > Maccabean Hall, Australia on March 22, 1981

> >

> >

> >

> > , " jagbir singh "

> > <adishakti_org@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Violet,

> > >

> > > You told me that " Christians still do not know that they are

> > > supposed to look for a Cool Breeze, because the Pentecostals

> > > don't teach that. The Pentecostals teach about the Gifts of the

> > > Spirit. "

> > >

> > > If you do not mind, can you elaborate/edit the same points and

> > > post it on the forum? i think this is a major topic that needs

> > > public discussion so that its manifestation and implications can

> > > be compared viz a viz mainstream Christianity. The self-

> > > verification of Cool Breeze experienced by those who get their

> > > Second Birth from the Spirit within themselves is the force de

> > > rigeur of Sahaja Yoga.

> > >

> > > The Pentecostal churches do not teach about the Cool Breeze

> > > because their pastors have absolute no power to give Second

> > > Birth.

> > >

> > > The Cool Breeze comes from within and this evidence must be

self-

> > > verified by the seeker to know that he/she is truly born of the

> > > Spirit. This Divine power lies within the person, a miracle of

> > > God's direct action to fulfill His Promise to humanity.

> > >

> > > There are tens of thousands of SYs who experience this Cool

> > > Breeze daily. Let us not forget the hundreds of thousands of

> > > seekers who did feel this Cool Breeze over countless numbers of

> > > SY public programs and health fairs but left because, since they

> > > were never told the Truth, found it no big deal as they could

> > > not relate it to their religious upbringing. Perhaps in future

> > > many of these seekers, and Pentecostal churchgoers too, may find

> > > out that the Wind that the Disciples of Jesus felt on the Day of

> > > Pentecost is a daily experience for those taking part in the

> > > Resurrection and Last Judgment.

> > >

> > > with love and season's greetings,

> > >

> > >

> > > jagbir

>

>

>

> Dear Jagbir and All,

>

> , " jagbir

> singh " <adishakti_org@> wrote:

>

> " You told me that " Christians still do not know that they are

> supposed to look for a Cool Breeze, because the Pentecostals don't

teach that. The Pentecostals teach about the Gifts of the

Spirit. " (End Quote)

>

> (Jagbir... that is correct. Christians still do not know that they

> are supposed to look for a Cool Breeze. Neither traditional

christians nor pentecostal christians know that.)

>

>

> " If you do not mind, can you elaborate/edit the same points and post

> it on the forum? " (End Quote)

>

> (i will do my best, Jagbir. People from non-Christian spiritual

> backgrounds though... may need a bit of background information

first. With discussion, spiritual understanding can perhaps be

reached. There is much to clear up and simplify in Christianity,

because it has become a complicated thing due to the

> misconceptions, misinterpretions and misunderstandings that have

> collected over the centuries since Shri Jesus was on Earth and gave

His Pristine Divine Teachings.)

>

>

> " i think this is a major topic that needs public discussion so that

> its manifestation and implications can be compared viz a viz

mainstream Christianity. The self-verification of Cool Breeze

experienced by those who get their Second Birth from the Spirit

within themselves is the force de rigeur of Sahaja Yoga. " (End Quote)

>

> (i totally agree with you that this " is " a major topic that needs

> public discussion. It is such a major topic that a person cannot

write about it in one post (i don't think)... and discussion brings

out many points for our collective spiritual understanding. i believe

it is important that the varying spiritual traditions develop a

'common understanding of spirituality'... which

> i know you are working on 'day in day out'. After all... the

original Teachers (Incarnations)... agreed on all the basic and

essential principles. And if they are from God, why should they not

agree? That which does not agree... " cannot therefore " be from God.

This is just 'plain old logic'.

>

> In fact, i am sure it will be quite surprising what will come out of

> such continuing discussion. i am sure it will go a long way to help

reach a collective spiritual understanding and therefore more

spiritual agreement among all people, regardless of which spiritual

tradition they come from.

>

> For example... Sahaja Yogis know " without any doubt whatsoever " (and

> they have come from varying spiritual backgrounds too)... that they

feel the Cool Breeze of the Holy Ghost as a sign that they have had

their Second Birth. They actually feel it as a cool breeze, that is

not an ordinary wind that blows when it is a windy day. This wind

also blows " when it is not a windy day " . This happened on the Day of

Pentecost. It also happens today. It cannot be replicated or conjured

> or manufactured. It is the Living Spirit that produces the Divine

> Wind. It is written about in the Koran and in the Bible and mystics

from various spiritual traditions also wrote about it in poetry.

>

> However, this Truth has remained unknown by both traditional

> christians and pentecostal christians. Why is this so? What could

be the reason? At least the pentecostal christians are trying to get

some understanding on it, however, as they are following Apostle

Paul's teachings instead of Shri Jesus, the Christ's teachings...

they have somewhat gone 'off the straight and narrow' that leads to

> the Kingdom of God within. The shocking truth that Christians need

> to realise is that Pauline Christianity and Jesus the Christ's

teachings actually do not agree in a lot of ways. For example, Shri

Jesus said that the sign of the Holy Spirit is " like the Wind but you

do not know where it comes from and where it is going " ... whereas the

followers of Apostle Paul say that " speaking in tongues "

> is the sign of the coming of the Holy Spirit. Apostle Paul, in fact

> says: " I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all. " (I

Corinthians 14:18 - KJV)

>

> Jagbir... over time, we could take each individual teaching of Paul

> and compare it to each comparable individual teaching of Jesus, the

Christ... and 'that way' remove the 'smoke-and-mirrors' effect... so

everyone can see plainly what theologians also now see. This is that

Pauline Christianity and Jesus's teachings are different. The more a

person researches into this... the more they will be dismayed at the

differences. (This does not mean that everything is in disagreement;

however, there should not be discrepancy on so many points.)

> Apostle Paul seems to misunderstand what Shri Jesus taught. It only

> takes a little misunderstanding to eventuate in a chasm of

> misunderstanding... over time.

>

> The thing is... " Sahaja Yogis know " ... that a person cannot receive

> their Second Birth and subsequent spiritual gifts by a minister

putting some 'power' into the person 'as in the pentecostal way'.

Apostle Paul was a pentecostal. As stated already, he said: " I speak

in tongues more than you all. " (I Corinthians 14:18) However, i have

never once heard of Shri Jesus Christ even mentioning about

> " speaking in tongues " . i have heard about the disciples of Jesus

> experiencing the Wind on the Day of Pentecost, and them seeing

tongues of flames over their heads, and they spoke in different

languages, which the Holy Spirit gave them utterance, so that they

could give the message out in many languages. However, even at the

Day of Pentecost, there is no mention of " speaking in tongues " as in

> the 'pentecostal glossolalia experience'. Apostle Paul was not an

> initiate of Shri Jesus. He was not even born while Shri Jesus was

on Earth. So... where did Paul get initiated into " speaking in

tongues " in the first place? None of this is mentioned by him in the

bible. Maybe he wanted the Baptism of the Holy Spirit so badly that

he ended up " speaking in tongues " ... if you know what i mean.

However, Sahaja Yogis do not speak in tongues. There is something

'not quite

> right' about this 'speaking in tongues' business.

>

> In fact... Sahaja Yogis " know " ... that the Holy Spirit Power is

> within the person, and located in their Sacrum Bone... until it

awakens. This Holy Spirit Power is called the " Kundalini Power " . It

cannot be passed on from someone who does not have this kundalini

power awakened in them. When this dormant energy awakens (usually

through a catalyst, which is someone who already has it

> awakened within themselves)... the Kundalini Power (the Holy Spirit

> Herself) arises and baptises the person.

>

> No external person can give another person the Baptism of the Holy

> Spirit. Only the Holy Spirit, Adi Shakti, Ruh of Allah, Shekinah,

Great Mother, Aykaa Mayee, Maitreya (depending upon which Name you

prefer to call Her)... CAN ALONE GIVE IT TO YOU. She is your

Individual Spiritual Mother within you... that give you your

> Spiritual Birth... just as you have a physcial mother that gives you

> your physical birth. However, your Spiritual Mother incarnates with

you from lifetime to lifetime. She knows you 'heaps better' than your

physical mother can ever possibly know you... and that is not to

disparage your physical mother. It is just a fact.)

>

>

> " The Pentecostal churches do not teach about the Cool Breeze because

> their pastors have absolute no power to give Second Birth. " (End

Quote)

>

> (This is the thing. Pentecostal pastors have not had their kundalini

> energy awakened themselves. Most probably do not even " know " about

the kundalini energy within the sacrum bone (sacred bone) because all

Hindu knowledge was rejected by christians. Now however, many

pentecostals are looking at other spiritual traditions for knowledge

they do not have, so things may be changing. However, in a lot of

cases, it is just to find better answers that suit their

> own religious theories, which is not the same as just having an open

> heart and mind to find out what is the Absolute Truth... come what

may.

>

> That is also why Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi has incarnated... to give

> them (and others) the Absolute Truth on all these subjects...

setting the record straight regarding all the misconceptions and

misinterpretations... so they will not have to remain in spiritual

ignorance and spiritual division between the different

> christian denominations and other spiritual traditions as well.

> After all... we are all part and parcel of one human family. After

all... there is only ONE UNITED KINGDOM OF GOD. If you are 'for

division' you cannot enter this kingdom. Only those who want to be

united in Spirit, can enter this kingdom. There are not separate

Kingdoms of God for the different christian denominations and/or

> different spiritual traditions. We are going to have to come

> to " some " Spiritual Unity therefore, first from within... and then

this will manifest without.

>

> No incarnation came to create religions which divide people

> according to man-made doctrines and dogmas. Study Shri Jesus

Christ's teachings, and you will find no such doctrines and dogmas

which Apostle Paul teaches. Once Christians realise the Absolute

Truth... then they too will come to know the Cool Breeze of

> the Holy Ghost... as experienced by the disciples of Jesus on the

> Day of Pentecost.

>

> Pentecostals stress the " Day of Pentecost " very much. They even take

> their 'name' from that 'Day of Pentecost'. It should be their

spiritual birthright therefore, to have a correct understanding of

these things. When pentecostals find out the Absolute Truth on this

subject and live it, there will be no stopping them. The positive

message of the Last Judgment and Resurrection will then spread like

wildfire. There will be no hesitation on that major subject, as

> it is with WCASY and followers of WCASY.)

>

>

> " The Cool Breeze comes from within and this evidence must be self-

> verified by the seeker to know that he/she is truly born of the

Spirit. This Divine power lies within the person, a miracle of God's

direct action to fulfill His Promise to humanity.

>

> There are tens of thousands of SYs who experience this Cool Breeze

> daily. Let us not forget the hundreds of thousands of seekers who

did feel this Cool Breeze over countless numbers of SY public

programs and health fairs but left because, since they were never

told the Truth, found it no big deal as they could not relate it to

their religious upbringing. Perhaps in future many of these seekers,

and Pentecostal churchgoers too, may find out that the Wind that the

> Disciples of Jesus felt on the Day of Pentecost is a daily

experience for those taking part in the Resurrection and Last

Judgment. " (End Quote)

>

> (That many seekers and pentecostal churchgoers will find out that

> the Wind that the Disciples of Jesus felt on the Day of Pentecost

is a daily experience for those taking part in the Resurrection and

Last Judgment... is the desired outcome and why we work hard at

getting this most important message out. Shri Mataji has asked us no

less than to declare that She is the Holy Ghost and that She has come

for this special time, which is the Resurrection Time:

>

> " Declare to all the nations now, that I am the Holy Ghost and I have

> come for this special time... that is the resurrection time " .

> (Birthday Puja - Sydney - 21 March 1983)

>

>

>

> 'Therefore'... taking account of all the above facts... 'as

> stated'... i feel it is important to give some background

information upon which to base an understanding of Christianity and

the Second Birth. Facts which have already been stated above, may be

repeated in going over this expansive subject that includes the

Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Second Birth, self-realisation,

> salvation (a.k.a. spiritual liberation)... and so forth. This will

> probably not be the only discussion on it either, because as Jagbir

has said... many things need to be discussed. However... these are

the really essential and pivotal subjects that need to be

addressed... as everything else revolves around these basic

essentials.

>

> How many times did Shri Mataji repeat the very same things... over

> and over again in different ways? So... please bear with those who

go into the " nitty gritty " of it all. " Pauline Christianity is not a

simple thing " . It is quite complicated. This is because instead of

following the Christ's teachings and applying those teachings to

their lives, people started to follow Apostle Paul's (and other) man-

made teachings instead. When this happens, things get complicated!

You could compare it to how it is much easier to follow Shri

> Mataji's teachings of Truth because of their 'consistency' rather

> than trying to follow WCASY's truths because of their

> 'inconsistencies'. Absolute Truth is never inconsistent. That is

why it is known as " Absolute Truth " . Whenever their is some

> 'inconsistency'... you can be sure that man has put his edit on it

in

> some way.

>

> 'The thing is'... whenever 'man' puts stress on something out of

> character with the way the Incarnation 'gave it'... great

complications happen which increase in complexity over time. The

complications may not be apparent 'early in the piece' but 'down the

track'... a chasm of misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the

Incarnation's teachings becomes apparent. 'Today'... this is quite

> noticeable with regards to Apostle Paul's teachings, which is why

> theologians call his the " Pauline Christianity " . It is not any more

Jesus the Christ's Christianity... you see! And as stated,

theologians are very aware of this already.

>

> The important thing to remember about Paul, though... is that he was

> not there when Jesus, the Christ was on Earth. He was not a

disciple of Jesus. 'Bluntly speaking'... Shri Mataji has called the

Apostle Paul " an imposter " in fact. This might be shocking to some,

however this is what the Incarnation of the Holy Spirit, Shri

Mataji... has told Sahaja Yogis. Apostle Paul seems to have usurped

Shri Jesus's teachings, and this will probably be revealed ever more

clearly on

> detailed examination of Jesus's teachings in comparison with what

> Apostle Paul teaches. It is common sense to do this. It is a

logical thing to do too. We have to be like scientists and compare

what the Incarnations said... to what mere man says. When they do not

tally, then something has gone amiss.

>

>

> NOTE: Christians use and read different versions of the Bible. They

> don't generally confine themselves to the King James Version. They

like to make comparative studies, using the different versions. This

can be easily seen if a person searches the Christian Bible Study

Websites where they will find all the comparative versions given. The

reason for this is so that people can get the maximum of spiritual

meaning and understanding from the scriptures. What a

> person may not grasp the full meaning of in one version... they may

> be able to ascertain from another version.

>

> Also... depending on the particular passage or verse of the bible

> being studied, the best translation can also be found that best

suits one's own spiritual and/or church worldview. i have noticed

that in christendom in general... that certain versions of the Bible

are sometimes considered to be more compatible than others. Often the

scholars worked with particular denominational worldviews

> in mind. However, to the nominal christian... or reader from another

> spiritual tradition... this difference will not be picked up,

because a person has to know what they are looking for. There are

times when i have been disappointed with 'modern-day-version-

rendering of the Bible' with regard to particular scriptural

> passages... and therefore have opted for the King James Version.

>

>; However, the King James Version contains many words that are not in

> common English usage anymore; after all its first publication was

in 1611: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Bible) This makes

instant comprehension difficult at times... especially for the young

people. So... although different congregations may recommend a

particular version, they will most probably leave it to the

individual to choose their preferred version. In my experience, i

have not found any hard or fast rule about it. At the very least

> anyway... the King James Version is not touted the way it used to

be. There is not this strict adherence to the King James Version of

the Bible anymore like there used to be.

>

> All in all, i don't think i would be too far wrong in saying that

> the KJV is mainly used as a 'backup-base-line-of-reference' and the

> 'church-accepted-and-preferred-version' or the 'minister's-

preferred-

> version' will generally be used instead. As stated already, this

tends to vary from denomination to denomination and even from church

to church in some cases... in my experience. Ministers usually state

what version they are reading from at a church service. Also... as

already stated... having the young people understand the bible is of

the " most vital importance " to christian churches today.

>

>

> The difference between Traditional Christians and Pentecostal

> Christians...

>

> To start with... in the 1960's and 70's, non-pentecostalism

> (traditional christianity) and pentecostalism were very clearly

divided according to what chapter of Apostle Paul's teaching a

congregation followed. In particular... if the congregation followed

chapter 12 of his First Epistle to the Corinthians... which is about

" the Gifts of the Spirit " , then the congregation or church were

> " pentecostal " . If you did not follow chapter 12 about " the Gifts of

> the Spirit " ... then you were " not " a pentecostal.

>

> Traditional christians ignored chapter 12 in favour of chapter 13

> which is about " Love " . Traditional christians also followed what is

called " the Fruits of the Spirit " ... which is comparable to " the

Qualities of the Spirit " in Sahaja Yoga.

>

> The best way to understand this difference is to read both chapters

> 12 and 13... keeping in mind that 'pentecostals particularly

stress' chapter 12 (while also accepting chapter 13) and non-

pentecostals mostly choose to ignore chapter 12, preferring to opt

for chapter 13. Pentecostals stress " The Gifts of the Spirit " , while

non-pentecostals stress " Love " and " the Fruits of the Spirit " . Whereas

> pentecostals believe that the Gifts of the Spirit are given today,

> non-pentecostals believe that they were given " Once-Off " in the

> earlier Spiritual Dispensation when Jesus was on Earth 'For

them'... 'it does not happen today'. (At least... that is what their

pastors and priests tell them.)

>

> Here then is the biblical passage about " the Fruits of the

> Spirit " ... after which i have appended chapters 12 (The Gifts of

the Spirit) and chapter 13 (Love):

>

>

> " Fruits of the Spirit "

> The Epistle of Paul to the Galatians (New International Version) -

>

> 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience,

> kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control.

Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ

Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.

25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

(Galatians 5:22-26)

> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galations%

> 205; & version=31;

>

>

> " Spiritual Gifts "

> The First Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians (New International

> Version)-

>

> 1 Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be

> ignorant. 2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other

you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3 Therefore I tell

you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, " Jesus be

cursed, " and no one can say, " Jesus is Lord, " except by the Holy

Spirit.

>

> 4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There

> are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are

different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all

men.

>

> 7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the

> common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message

of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same

Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of

healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to

another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to

> another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another

> the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and

the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.

>

> 12 The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and

> though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with

Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—

whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one

Spirit to drink.

>

> 14 Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15 If the

> foot should say, " Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the

body, " it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16

And if the ear should say, " Because I am not an eye, I do not belong

to the body, " it would not for that reason cease to be part of the

body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of

hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of

> smell be? 18 But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body,

> every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19 If they were

all one part, where would the body be? 20 As it is, there are many

parts, but one body.

>

> 21 The eye cannot say to the hand, " I don't need you! " And the head

> cannot say to the feet, " I don't need you! " 22 On the contrary,

those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23

and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special

honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special

modesty, 24 while our presentable parts need no special treatment.

But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater

> honor to the parts that lacked it, 25 so that there should be no

> division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern

for each other. 26 If one part suffers, every part suffers with it;

if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

>

> 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of

> it. 28 And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles,

second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those

having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts

of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work

miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in

> tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But eagerly desire[e] the greater

> gifts. And now I will show you the most excellent way. (I

Corinthians 12:1-31)

> http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=I%20Corinthians%2012:1-

> 31; & version=3\1;

>

>

> " Love "

> The First Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians (New International

> Version) -

>

> 1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love,

> I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the

gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and

if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am

nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body

to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

>

> 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not

> boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking,

it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does

not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always

protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

>

> 8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease;

> where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is

knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy

in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I

reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways

> behind me. 12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then

> we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know

fully, even as I am fully known.

>

> 13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the

> greatest of these is love. (I Corinthians 13:1-13)

> http://www.biblegateway.com/

passage/?book_id=53 & chapter=13 & version=31

>

>

>

> Jagbir... traditional christians follow chapter 13. They believe in

> the excellence of love and therefore choose to ignore or turn a

blind eye to the spiritual gifts. Pentecostals, on the other hand...

accept both chapters. They believe what Apostle Paul said, which is

that the spiritual gifts are important to pursue. It is a well-known

fact, therefore... that each generally disapproves of the other's

stance. Traditional christians consider " speaking in tongues " to

> be a spiritual aberration and a sign of fanaticism. In other words,

> they consider pentecostals to be fanatical.

>

> On the other hand, pentecostal christians tend to consider

> traditional christians 'not to be following the Full Gospel'. After

all... Apostle Paul admitted to 'speaking in tongues'. He said: " I

thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all; " (I Corinthians

14:18) Apostle Paul was therefore 'a pentecostal' and not a

traditionalist. Apostle Paul also refers to the 'speaking in tongues'

to be the lowliest spiritual gift... 'yet with special

> honour':

>

> " And the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with

> special honor " (I Corinthians 12:23)

>

> This is why pentecostals believe that 'speaking in tongues' has the

> special honour to be the sign that someone has received their

'Baptism of the Holy Spirit'. That is why... if a pentecostal is not

yet able to 'speak in tongues'... they will have another 'laying on

of hands' by the minister to

> ensure this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laying_on_of_hands)

>

> Because it is an 'actual experience'... pentecostalism has grown in

> leaps and bounds. People believe in the pentecostal 'Baptism of the

Holy Spirit' because they have had 'an experience' and because they

can 'speak in tongues'. It is a powerful aberration over the human

psychosomatic system. However, i 'have been there and done that' and

i am a Sahaja Yogi now, and i know that this is not the real Baptism

of the Holy Spirit at all. Just like traditional Christians

> believe... it is fanaticism. The sign of the real Baptism of the

> Holy Spirit is the Cool Breeze of the Holy Spirit... and this is

according to Jesus. Nowhere have i read Shri Jesus saying that 'some

sort of speaking in tongues' is a sign of the Baptism of the Holy

Spirit!:

>

> Words of Shri Jesus...

>

> " The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do

> not know where it comes from and where it is going; SO IS EVERYONE

WHO IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT " (John 3:8)

>

> Therefore i challenge any pentecostal to find any teaching from

> Jesus, because it is not there. It is Apostle Paul's teaching. It

is " Pauline Christianity " ... not the Incarnation's teachings.

However, thousands of Sahaja Yogis have had their real Baptism of the

Holy Spirit... as evidenced by a Cool Breeze of the Holy Ghost...

just as Jesus describes in John 3:8. This is the real

> Baptism. The Cool Breeze is an experience too. It also cannot be

faked. And not one Sahaja Yogi has 'spoken in tongues'.

>

> However, unlike the 60's and 70's... from what i can see...

> pentecostalism seems to be in the ascendancy now. Many people are

being 'taken in' by it. Many freelance pentecostal preachers are also

teaching even further aberrations as they get deeper and deeper into

the collective subconscious (past) and supraconscious (future). The

place to be is in the collective superconsciousness, which is to be

in the present or presence of Holy Spirit Power.

>

> So... the dharma is in shambles, because with fanaticism comes

> psychosomatic imbalance. Looking back to my time in pentecostalism

and being able to use Sahaj Understanding to describe it... i can say

that it drained me. It was exhausting with highs and lows, like a

drug that you filled up on each Sunday, Wednesday, and Friday. All

you have to do is check out a pentecostal service, and you will

> see what i am talking about.

>

> Nevertheless... this is what is preached:

>

> " Speaking in other tongues was the first physical manifestation of

> the Holy Spirit baptism throughout the book of Acts (Acts 2:4;

10:46; 19:6). Once you have asked for this baptism, ask God to anoint

you. Then in praise and worship, wait for the anointing. This witness

of tongues will come forth. Expect it! Rejoice in it! You are a

unique individual, and your experiences will be your

> own.

>

> God wants us to communicate with Him, learn about Him, hear His

> voice, do His will and be baptized with His Spirit. He also wants

us to conform to the example given us by the Holy Spirit to help you

accomplish all of the things that are important. The Holy Spirit

contributes to your life every moment of every day. He helps you

understand the Bible, He teaches you truth, and helps you to pray.

>

> One of the principles of the Kingdom of God concerns being in

> agreement with Him and with another person as you pray. Be

encouraged to ask a Spirit-filled Christian such as one of our prayer

partners to pray with you. "

> http://crossroads.ca/response/baptism.htm

> (End Quote)

>

> i therefore agree with what you say Jagbir that " perhaps in future

> many of these seekers, and Pentecostal churchgoers too, may find

out that the Wind that the Disciples of Jesus felt on the Day of

Pentecost is a daily experience for those taking part in the

Resurrection and Last Judgment " .

>

> warmest regards,

>

> violet

>