Guest guest Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 , " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org wrote: > > So the Hindu belief that Shri Shiva resides at Mount Kailash is > absolutely true. The Adi Shakti gave evidence of that too. There are > indeed many deep mystical facts of Hinduism that are all true. It is > most difficult to challenge this religion and its Holy Scriptures > easily the most spiritual, mystical, enlightening, and all- > encompassing. Without question the Sanatana Dharma bestows the > greatest benefit to humanity because it embraces and nourishes all > religions - the Adi Shakti's Divine Message to humanity wholesomely > embraces this joyous synthesis and religious harmony - only the > Divine Source of all religions can give such evidence. Now i am at > peace with all religions, scriptures and messengers......and my > Self. > Dear devotees of the Adi Shakti, Namaskar: I bow to the Almighty God that resides in you. Of all the Holy Scriptures i believe the Guru Granth Sahib to be the collective repository of all the Truths of the Sanatana Dharma. There is no scripture as detailed and dedicated to the Ultimate Reality - the formless God Almighty/Brahman/Vahiguru - as the Guru Granth Sahib. " Modern scholars ... affirm that the name Vahiguru is owed originally to the Gurus, most likely to the founder of the faith, Guru Nanak, himself. According to this view, Vahiguru is a compound of two words, one from Persian and the other from Sanskrit, joined in a symbiotic relationship to define the indefinable, indescribable Ultimate Reality. Vah in Persian is an interjection of wonder and admiration, and guru (Sanskrit guru: heavy, weighty, great, venerable; a spiritual parent or preceptor) has been frequently used by Guru Nanak and his successors for satiguru (True Guru) or God. Bhai Santokh Singh, in Sri Gur Nanak Prakash (pp. 1249-51), reporting Guru Nanak's testament to the Sikhs has thus explicated Vahiguru: Vah is wonder at the Divine might; gu is spiritual darkness while ru is illumination brought to eliminate this darkness. " (end) A few months ago i had a unique experience in a Sikh temple where a friend had held prayers. Sikhs are particularly devoted to kirtan and ragis sing hymns praising God Almighty. This temple had an in-house ragi group. Ragi group generally consists of three persons: one plays the tabla or jori (pair of drums) and he seldom participates in the singing; the other plays the harmonium, and the third plays a stringed instrument or harmonium or cymbals. The leader of the group sits in the centre and the group is known by his name. The ragis started playing their instruments and i listened as usual. There was nothing extraordinary so i got up to leave. As i exited the leader started singing. i was stunned by his majestic voice that reverberated into my being. i returned, sat down, closed my eyes and listened in awe and bliss. i have never heard such divine music in all my life. It was as if my ears had become super-sensuous. As the song progressed towards its rising crescendo a unique realization came - if you listen to those in the Celestial Court you will spend weeks in Sat Chit Anand ......... thoughtlessly rooted to the same spot in indescribable bliss. And weeks is an understatement because in the Celestial Court you will be in the eternal spirit form and absolutely convinced God Almighty/Brahman/Vahiguru exists. There are many joys in Heaven. Listening to ragis playing in the Celestial Court in the company of countless liberated souls is just one of the many. The Spirit World is an endless state of Anand (Bliss). Whatever bliss we experience here on Earth is at most just 1/1,000,000,000 of that in His Kingdom. The Guru Granth Sahib contains the Truth of my realization too, and many more. Shri Shiva and His Kailash Mountain are mentioned in this Holy Scripture too. Everything that a Hindu believes is enshrined in the Guru Granth Sahib. Even the Mansarovar Lake is mentioned and i am just talking about a single raag taken from the Guru Granth Sahib! That is why i regard this Holy Scripture to be the collective treasure of the Sanatana Dharma. Let me give you an example of a single raag, which in this case is a portion of Raag Bhairao. Raag Bhairao - Part 038 With the army of God's devotees, and Shakti, the power of meditation, I have snapped the noose of the fear of death. Slave Kabeer has climbed to the top of the fortress; I have obtained the eternal, imperishable domain. The mother Ganges is deep and profound. Tied up in chains, they took Kabeer there. My mind was not shaken; why should my body be afraid? My consciousness remained immersed in the Lotus Feet of the Lord. The waves of the Ganges broke the chains, and Kabeer was seated on a deer skin. Says Kabeer, I have no friend or companion. On the water, and on the land, the Lord is my Protector. Bhairao, Kabeer Jee, Ashtapadees, Second House: One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: God constructed a fortress, inaccessible and unreachable, in which He dwells. There, His Divine Light radiates forth. Lightning blazes, and bliss prevails there, where the Eternally Young Lord God abides. This soul is lovingly attuned to the Lord's Name. It is saved from old age and death, and its doubt runs away. Those who believe in high and low social classes, only sing songs and chants of egotism. The Unstruck Sound-current of the Shabad, the Word of God, resounds in that place, where the Supreme Lord God abides. He creates planets, solar systems and galaxies; He destroys the three worlds, the three gods and the three qualities. The Inaccessible and Unfathomable Lord God dwells in the heart. No one can find the limits or the secrets of the Lord of the World. The Lord shines forth in the plantain flower and the sunshine. He dwells in the pollen of the lotus flower. The Lord's secret is within the twelve petals of the heart-lotus. The Supreme Lord, the Lord of Lakshmi dwells there. He is like the sky, stretching across the lower, upper and middle realms. In the profoundly silent celestial realm, He radiates forth. Neither the sun nor the moon are there, but the Primal Immaculate Lord celebrates there. Know that He is in the universe, and in the body as well. Take your cleansing bath in the Mansarovar Lake. Chant " Sohang " - " He is me. " He is not affected by either virtue or vice. He is not affected by either high or low social class, sunshine or shade. He is in the Guru's Sanctuary, and nowhere else. He is not diverted by diversions, comings or goings. Remain intuitively absorbed in the celestial void. One who knows the Lord in the mind - whatever he says, comes to pass. One who firmly implants the Lord's Divine Light, and His Mantra within the mind - says Kabeer, such a mortal crosses over to the other side. Millions of suns shine for Him, millions of Shivas and Kailash mountains. Millions of Durga goddesses massage His Feet. Millions of Brahmas chant the Vedas for Him. When I beg, I beg only from the Lord. I have nothing to do with any other deities. Raag Bhairao - Part 038 English translation of Holy Guru Granth Sahib English translation by Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa taken from http://www.gurbanifiles.com/ The one overriding difference is that right from the opening chapter homage and worship is paid exclusively to the formless God Almighty/Brahman/Vahiguru, both within and without - absolutely no external rituals or worship of idols and images. (Any Hindu worth his or her salt will admit that there is not even a single sentence in all their Holy Scriptures that condones idol worship ............ and we are talking about tens of thousands of pages.) The Guru Granth Sahib is one without a second as far as collective truth of many scriptures is concerned. And with the Adi Shakti (Aykaa Mayee) entrenched in the opening chapter " Jap Jee Sahib " there is no room for error or doubt as to the profundity of Truth that prevails throughout this voluminous book. To protect it the Sikh gurus and people for centuries relentlessly and selflessly sacrificed life and limb ................ till victory. Thus, remembering their collective martyrdom, to even mention " Sahaja Yogis " is an insult. The Sikh Institutions: Martyrdom 1. Introduction 1.1 Martyrdom in Sikhism is a fundamental concept and represents an important institution of the faith. In the Sikh form, the institution is a complete departure from the Indian tradition, and for that matter radically distinguishes the whole-life character of Sikhism from the earlier dichotomous or pacifist Indian religious traditions. It is significant that the concept was emphatically laid down by Guru Nanak, and the history of the Guru period as well as the subsequent history of the Sikhs is an open expression, in thought and deed, of this basic doctrine. 2. The Goal and Concept of Martyrdom 2.1 In Sikhism, Guru Nanak in the very beginning of his famous hymn 'Japu Ji', while rejecting the paths of ascetic, one point meditation or withdrawal, emphatically prescribes carrying out or living according to the Will of God as the goal of man. " How to become the abode of Truth and how to demolish the wall of illusion or falsehood? " , he asks, and then proceeds to answer, Through following His Will. He then defines the Will to be the 'Ocean of Virtues' (gunigahira) or Altruistic. The Gurus' basic perception of this Will is that it is Loving or Love. 2.2 It is in this context that Guru Nanak proclaims that life is 'a game of love', and gives a call to humanity to follow this path. He says: Shouldst thou seek to engage in the game of Love, step into my street with thy head placed on thy palm: While stepping on to this street, ungrudgingly sacrifice your head (GGS p 1412) Repeated emphasis is laid on this goal of following the Will of God, Who is directing the universe, in Guru Granth Sahib: " Through perception of His Will is the Supreme State attained. " (p. 292) " With the perception of His Will alone is the Essence realized. " (p.1289) " By perceiving the Lord's Will is Truth attained. " (p. 1244) " By His Will was the world created as a place for righteous living. " (p. 785) " Profoundly wondrous is the Divine Will. Whoever has its perception, has awareness of the true praxis of life. " (p. 940) 2.3 It should be clear that in Sikhism the goal is not to attain personal salvation or Moksha or 'eternal bliss'. It is instead the perception or recognition of His Will and working in line with its direction. This state is in fact synonymous with God-realization. 2.4 The concept of martyrdom was laid down by Guru Nanak. In fact, his was an open challenge and a call. His hymn calling life 'a game of love' is of profoundest significance in Sikh thought and theology. It has five clear facets. It expresses in clear words the Guru's spiritual experience of God. While he repeatedly calls Him unknowable, his own experience, he states, is that He is All Love. Second, He is Benevolent and Gracious towards man and the world. Third, since He expresses His Love in the world, the same, by implication, becomes real and meaningful. Further, the Guru by giving this call clearly proclaims both the goal and the methodology of religious life in Sikhism. The goal is to live a life of love which is in line with His expression of Love and Grace in the world. Simultaneously, the methodology of whole-life activity and commitment for the goal is emphasized. The significant fact is that in the entire Guru Granth Sahib it is these principles of the Sikh way of life that are repeatedly emphasized. There are innumerable hymns endorsing one or the other of the above principles of Sikh theology. It is this couplet of Guru Nanak that forms the base of martyrdom in Sikhism. For, the commitment desired is total, and once on that Path the seeker has to have no wavering in laying down his life for the cause. In his hymn Guru Nanak has defined and stressed that the institution of martyrdom is an essential ingredient of the Path he was laying down for man. www.allaboutsikhs.com/ As i said before, to even mention " Sahaja Yogis " is an insult for their dereliction of duty and unfathomable fear to bear witness and uphold the Sanatana Dharma. But the Aykaa Mayee has incarnated with all Her powers. There are numerous incidents in Sikh history where a lone or a few determined and inspired Sikhs stood their ground against heavy odds justifying Guru Gobind Singh's fiat " Savah lakh se ek laron, tabe Gobind Singh naam kahaoon " - " If I, Guru Gobind Singh, deserve my name, a single Sikh will confront 125,000. " The same goes for the Adi Shakti! If we have prevailed in our past lives fighting for Her Cause and the Sanatana Dharma have no doubt that we will prevail yet again. Do we have 125,000 SYs worldwide? Jai Shri Ganapathy, jagbir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2007 Report Share Posted February 1, 2007 Dear Jagbir and All, The Sikh Scripture and understanding that you have given us to read is unbelievably beautiful and most spiritually comprehensive, as you say. Thank you for bringing this couplet to our attention. i still do not really know what Sanatana Dharma is, even though i know you have often mentioned it. When we come from the Christian background, even though being a Sahaja Yogi, we don't always have that Eastern understanding that perhaps Hindus or Sikhs may regard as common spiritual knowledge. So, here is a URL on Sanatana Dharma that i have just looked up, and i intend to study that and really try and get a grip on what Sanatana Dharma is and/or means: (http://www.dharmacentral.com/faq.htm) When i read all the beautiful things said by Guru Nanak, i am most grateful that He incarnated. Sikhism (from Guru Nanak) came after Christianity; Guru Nanak's time on Earth being from 1469-1539. (http://www.sikhs.org/guru1.htm) He seems to have given spiritual knowledge such as Shri Jesus would have given his disciples or devotees perhaps, but which is not in the Bible as such. Maybe, being a later " Time " , Guru Nanak gave more of this spiritual knowledge too, and it is fortunate that the Sikhs did protect the Pure Knowledge of the Spirit that Guru Nanak gave. In the couplet you have given, Guru Nanak reveals the basis of martyrdom in Sikhism, which is that 'commitment is desired in totality to the Divine within the person.' This is also very similar to what Shri Jesus had also taught: Teaching of Shri Jesus... " If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it. For what is a man profited if he gains the whole world, and loses or forfeits himself? For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when He comes in His glory, and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. But I say to you truthfully, there are some standing here who shall not taste death until they see the kingdom of God. " (Luke 9:23-27) Yes, the total dedication needs to be there. Shri Mataji, Shri Jesus, and Guru Nanak all 'say the same'. Shri Jesus also says to follow " Me " , just like Shri Mataji says to follow " Her " . What these enlightened beings say just agrees so well! We know too that life is in " becoming our Spirit " , and surrendering to our Spirit. Then we are really " alive and living " . There are people though who are living a " living death " , by just going through the motions of life, but not being in connection with their Real Self, their Spirit. However, when they " lose their life " (which is an expression of surrender to the Divine Within), they really do find it. They find their Spirit, which is who they really are, and the Spirit Within is Brahman! Jai Shri Adi Shakti! violet , " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org wrote: > > , " jagbir singh " > <adishakti_org@> wrote: > > > > So the Hindu belief that Shri Shiva resides at Mount Kailash is > > absolutely true. The Adi Shakti gave evidence of that too. There are > > indeed many deep mystical facts of Hinduism that are all true. It is > > most difficult to challenge this religion and its Holy Scriptures > > easily the most spiritual, mystical, enlightening, and all- > > encompassing. Without question the Sanatana Dharma bestows the > > greatest benefit to humanity because it embraces and nourishes all > > religions - the Adi Shakti's Divine Message to humanity wholesomely > > embraces this joyous synthesis and religious harmony - only the > > Divine Source of all religions can give such evidence. Now i am at > > peace with all religions, scriptures and messengers......and my > > Self. > > > > Dear devotees of the Adi Shakti, > > Namaskar: I bow to the Almighty God that resides in you. > > Of all the Holy Scriptures i believe the Guru Granth Sahib to be the > collective repository of all the Truths of the Sanatana Dharma. There > is no scripture as detailed and dedicated to the Ultimate Reality - > the formless God Almighty/Brahman/Vahiguru - as the Guru Granth Sahib. > > " Modern scholars ... affirm that the name Vahiguru is owed originally > to the Gurus, most likely to the founder of the faith, Guru Nanak, > himself. According to this view, Vahiguru is a compound of two words, > one from Persian and the other from Sanskrit, joined in a symbiotic > relationship to define the indefinable, indescribable Ultimate > Reality. Vah in Persian is an interjection of wonder and admiration, > and guru (Sanskrit guru: heavy, weighty, great, venerable; a > spiritual parent or preceptor) has been frequently used by Guru Nanak > and his successors for satiguru (True Guru) or God. Bhai Santokh > Singh, in Sri Gur Nanak Prakash (pp. 1249-51), reporting Guru Nanak's > testament to the Sikhs has thus explicated Vahiguru: Vah is wonder at > the Divine might; gu is spiritual darkness while ru is illumination > brought to eliminate this darkness. " (end) > > A few months ago i had a unique experience in a Sikh temple where a > friend had held prayers. Sikhs are particularly devoted to kirtan and > ragis sing hymns praising God Almighty. > This temple had an in-house ragi group. Ragi group generally consists > of three persons: one plays the tabla or jori (pair of drums) and he > seldom participates in the singing; the other plays the harmonium, > and the third plays a stringed instrument or harmonium or cymbals. > The leader of the group sits in the centre and the group is known by > his name. > > The ragis started playing their instruments and i listened as usual. > There was nothing extraordinary so i got up to leave. As i exited the > leader started singing. i was stunned by his majestic voice that > reverberated into my being. i returned, sat down, closed my eyes and > listened in awe and bliss. i have never heard such divine music in > all my life. It was as if my ears had become super-sensuous. > > As the song progressed towards its rising crescendo a unique > realization came - if you listen to those in the Celestial Court you > will spend weeks in Sat Chit Anand ......... thoughtlessly rooted to > the same spot in indescribable bliss. And weeks is an understatement > because in the Celestial Court you will be in the eternal spirit form > and absolutely convinced God Almighty/Brahman/Vahiguru exists. There > are many joys in Heaven. Listening to ragis playing in the Celestial > Court in the company of countless liberated souls is just one of the > many. The Spirit World is an endless state of Anand (Bliss). Whatever > bliss we experience here on Earth is at most just 1/1,000,000,000 of > that in His Kingdom. > > The Guru Granth Sahib contains the Truth of my realization too, and > many more. Shri Shiva and His Kailash Mountain are mentioned in this > Holy Scripture too. Everything that a Hindu believes is enshrined in > the Guru Granth Sahib. Even the Mansarovar Lake is mentioned and i am > just talking about a single raag taken from the Guru Granth Sahib! > That is why i regard this Holy Scripture to be the collective > treasure of the Sanatana Dharma. > > Let me give you an example of a single raag, which in this case is a > portion of Raag Bhairao. > > Raag Bhairao - Part 038 > > With the army of God's devotees, and Shakti, the power of meditation, > I have snapped the noose of the fear of death. > Slave Kabeer has climbed to the top of the fortress; I have obtained > the eternal, imperishable domain. > The mother Ganges is deep and profound. > Tied up in chains, they took Kabeer there. > My mind was not shaken; why should my body be afraid? > My consciousness remained immersed in the Lotus Feet of the Lord. > The waves of the Ganges broke the chains, > and Kabeer was seated on a deer skin. > Says Kabeer, I have no friend or companion. > On the water, and on the land, the Lord is my Protector. > Bhairao, Kabeer Jee, Ashtapadees, Second House: > One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru: > God constructed a fortress, inaccessible and unreachable, in which He > dwells. > There, His Divine Light radiates forth. > Lightning blazes, and bliss prevails there, > where the Eternally Young Lord God abides. > This soul is lovingly attuned to the Lord's Name. > It is saved from old age and death, and its doubt runs away. > Those who believe in high and low social classes, > only sing songs and chants of egotism. > The Unstruck Sound-current of the Shabad, the Word of God, resounds > in that place, > where the Supreme Lord God abides. > He creates planets, solar systems and galaxies; > He destroys the three worlds, the three gods and the three qualities. > The Inaccessible and Unfathomable Lord God dwells in the heart. > No one can find the limits or the secrets of the Lord of the World. > The Lord shines forth in the plantain flower and the sunshine. > He dwells in the pollen of the lotus flower. > The Lord's secret is within the twelve petals of the heart-lotus. > The Supreme Lord, the Lord of Lakshmi dwells there. > He is like the sky, stretching across the lower, upper and middle > realms. > In the profoundly silent celestial realm, He radiates forth. > Neither the sun nor the moon are there, > but the Primal Immaculate Lord celebrates there. > Know that He is in the universe, and in the body as well. > Take your cleansing bath in the Mansarovar Lake. > Chant " Sohang " - " He is me. " > He is not affected by either virtue or vice. > He is not affected by either high or low social class, sunshine or > shade. > He is in the Guru's Sanctuary, and nowhere else. > He is not diverted by diversions, comings or goings. > Remain intuitively absorbed in the celestial void. > One who knows the Lord in the mind > - whatever he says, comes to pass. > One who firmly implants the Lord's Divine Light, and His Mantra > within the mind > - says Kabeer, such a mortal crosses over to the other side. > Millions of suns shine for Him, > millions of Shivas and Kailash mountains. > Millions of Durga goddesses massage His Feet. > Millions of Brahmas chant the Vedas for Him. > When I beg, I beg only from the Lord. > I have nothing to do with any other deities. > > Raag Bhairao - Part 038 > English translation of Holy Guru Granth Sahib > English translation by Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa taken from > http://www.gurbanifiles.com/ > > > The one overriding difference is that right from the opening chapter > homage and worship is paid exclusively to the formless God > Almighty/Brahman/Vahiguru, both within and without - absolutely no > external rituals or worship of idols and images. (Any Hindu worth his > or her salt will admit that there is not even a single sentence in > all their Holy Scriptures that condones idol worship ............ and > we are talking about tens of thousands of pages.) > > The Guru Granth Sahib is one without a second as far as collective > truth of many scriptures is concerned. And with the Adi Shakti (Aykaa > Mayee) entrenched in the opening chapter " Jap Jee Sahib " there is no > room for error or doubt as to the profundity of Truth that prevails > throughout this voluminous book. To protect it the Sikh gurus and > people for centuries relentlessly and selflessly sacrificed life and > limb ................ till victory. Thus, remembering their > collective martyrdom, to even mention " Sahaja Yogis " is an insult. > > > The Sikh Institutions: Martyrdom > > 1. Introduction > > 1.1 Martyrdom in Sikhism is a fundamental concept and represents an > important institution of the faith. In the Sikh form, the institution > is a complete departure from the Indian tradition, and for that > matter radically distinguishes the whole-life character of Sikhism > from the earlier dichotomous or pacifist Indian religious traditions. > It is significant that the concept was emphatically laid down by Guru > Nanak, and the history of the Guru period as well as the subsequent > history of the Sikhs is an open expression, in thought and deed, of > this basic doctrine. > > 2. The Goal and Concept of Martyrdom > > 2.1 In Sikhism, Guru Nanak in the very beginning of his famous > hymn 'Japu Ji', while rejecting the paths of ascetic, one point > meditation or withdrawal, emphatically prescribes carrying out or > living according to the Will of God as the goal of man. " How to > become the abode of Truth and how to demolish the wall of illusion or > falsehood? " , he asks, and then proceeds to answer, Through following > His Will. He then defines the Will to be the 'Ocean of Virtues' > (gunigahira) or Altruistic. The Gurus' basic perception of this Will > is that it is Loving or Love. > > 2.2 It is in this context that Guru Nanak proclaims that life is 'a > game of love', and gives a call to humanity to follow this path. He > says: > > Shouldst thou seek to engage in the game of Love, step into my street > with thy head placed on thy palm: While stepping on to this street, > ungrudgingly sacrifice your head (GGS p 1412) > Repeated emphasis is laid on this goal of following the Will of God, > Who is directing the universe, in Guru Granth Sahib: > > " Through perception of His Will is the Supreme State attained. " (p. > 292) > > " With the perception of His Will alone is the Essence realized. " > (p.1289) > > " By perceiving the Lord's Will is Truth attained. " (p. 1244) > > " By His Will was the world created as a place for righteous living. " > (p. 785) > > " Profoundly wondrous is the Divine Will. Whoever has its perception, > has awareness of the true praxis of life. " (p. 940) > > 2.3 It should be clear that in Sikhism the goal is not to attain > personal salvation or Moksha or 'eternal bliss'. It is instead the > perception or recognition of His Will and working in line with its > direction. This state is in fact synonymous with God-realization. > > 2.4 The concept of martyrdom was laid down by Guru Nanak. In fact, > his was an open challenge and a call. His hymn calling life 'a game > of love' is of profoundest significance in Sikh thought and theology. > It has five clear facets. It expresses in clear words the Guru's > spiritual experience of God. While he repeatedly calls Him > unknowable, his own experience, he states, is that He is All Love. > Second, He is Benevolent and Gracious towards man and the world. > Third, since He expresses His Love in the world, the same, by > implication, becomes real and meaningful. Further, the Guru by giving > this call clearly proclaims both the goal and the methodology of > religious life in Sikhism. The goal is to live a life of love which > is in line with His expression of Love and Grace in the world. > Simultaneously, the methodology of whole-life activity and commitment > for the goal is emphasized. The significant fact is that in the > entire Guru Granth Sahib it is these principles of the Sikh way of > life that are repeatedly emphasized. > > There are innumerable hymns endorsing one or the other of the above > principles of Sikh theology. It is this couplet of Guru Nanak that > forms the base of martyrdom in Sikhism. For, the commitment desired > is total, and once on that Path the seeker has to have no wavering in > laying down his life for the cause. In his hymn Guru Nanak has > defined and stressed that the institution of martyrdom is an > essential ingredient of the Path he was laying down for man. > > www.allaboutsikhs.com/ > > As i said before, to even mention " Sahaja Yogis " is an insult for > their dereliction of duty and unfathomable fear to bear witness and > uphold the Sanatana Dharma. But the Aykaa Mayee has incarnated with > all Her powers. There are numerous incidents in Sikh history where a > lone or a few determined and inspired Sikhs stood their ground > against heavy odds justifying Guru Gobind Singh's fiat " Savah lakh se > ek laron, tabe Gobind Singh naam kahaoon " - " If I, Guru Gobind > Singh, deserve my name, a single Sikh will confront 125,000. " > > The same goes for the Adi Shakti! If we have prevailed in our past > lives fighting for Her Cause and the Sanatana Dharma have no doubt > that we will prevail yet again. Do we have 125,000 SYs worldwide? > > Jai Shri Ganapathy, > > > jagbir > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 , " Violet " <violet.tubb wrote: > > > As i said before, to even mention " Sahaja Yogis " is an insult for > their dereliction of duty and unfathomable fear to bear witness and > uphold the Sanatana Dharma. But the Aykaa Mayee has incarnated with > all Her powers. There are numerous incidents in Sikh history where > a lone or a few determined and inspired Sikhs stood their ground > against heavy odds justifying Guru Gobind Singh's fiat " Savah lakh > se ek laron, tabe Gobind Singh naam kahaoon " - " If I, Guru Gobind > Singh, deserve my name, a single Sikh will confront 125,000. " > > The same goes for the Adi Shakti! If we have prevailed in our past > lives fighting for Her Cause and the Sanatana Dharma have no doubt > that we will prevail yet again. Do we have 125,000 SYs worldwide? > > Jai Shri Ganapathy, > > > jagbir > Dear devotees of the Adi Shakti, Namaskar: I bow to the Brahman that resides in you. It is not without good reason i am willing to challenge 125,000 SYs against www.adishakti.org, whenever they reach the mass worthy of battling. To those sitting on the fence i say you cannot serve two masters. Either stand unconditionally behind the Adi Shakti and Her Divine Message to humanity or WCASY and their Sahaja Yoga Subtle System Religion. You can either empower Shri Mataji's success or WCASY's. That choice is entirely yours. So weigh it carefully because your release from rebirth depends entirely on whom you serve. Please do not fool yourself by believing you can serve both. It is obvious that the WCASY, of whom Sahajhist is a watchdog, is dead against www.adishakti.org. Even before the formation of WCASY most of the leaders, starting from Yogi Mahajan, were against the revelations of the Adi Shakti. So it is not a recent development. Today Sahajhist has their tacit approval to do everything possible to prevent SYs/seekers from visiting www.adishakti.org. Appended below is the evidence of what i am saying. So to all SYs who follow WCASY and are against www.adishakti.org, i am more than willing to go against all of you to make sure that Shri Mataji's Divine Message reaches humanity. i am absolutely sure that the Truth will triumph, and destroy all obstacles on its path. i will see what's left of WCASY and their SYSSR a decade from today. And to those who want to serve the Adi Shakti unconditionally you will have to disassociate yourself completely from WCASY and the organization they have hijacked. If you truly know Her it will be a most welcome choice against those who claim to represent Her Will. And when i say " Her " i mean Brahman within! So do not squander your greatest chance of finally attaining moksa after toiling for countless rebirths. i seek no recognition, honor or praise in my duty towards Devi and the Sanatana Dharma .......... or against those who oppose it. Thus if i have to fight 125,000 i will most willingly. Jai Ganapathy, jagbir -------------- Shri Adi Shakti: The Kingdom Of God Why have links to this website been deleted repeatedly? Sfacets removed it again today, saying " rmv website - not on SY " . Clearly it concerns Sahaja Yoga, which is mentioned 38 times on the home page alone. Please explain in more detail how this website has no relevance to this article. -Will Beback · † · 21:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC) The group behind the website do not consider themselves Sahaja Yogis, although they practice techniques taught by SY. -Sfacets 07:22, 13 December 2006 (UTC) They also comment extensively about SY, therefore it's relevant. -Will Beback · † · 07:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC) Can you give examples? -Sfacets 11:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC) We can start with the 38 mentions on the home page, which I already mentioned. -Will Beback · † · 11:59, 13 December 2006 (UTC) If this site is to be included then it should be under a heading called something like 'alternative views' since although the link does mention Sahaja Yoga 38 times it also plainly tells the reader that the author no longer considers themselves to be part of Sahaja Yoga and in fact acknowledges that some of his views are unaccepted by the Sahaja Yoga community. As this wiki page is about Sahaja Yoga and the Sahaja Yoga International (Vishwa Nirmala Dharma) organization that has been created by Shri Mataji then it would be misleading to have the link under an ambiguous heading. -Willia 19:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC) I don't object to calling it an " alternative view " . -Will Beback · † · 19:33, 14 December 2006 (UTC) I think it belongs in the Criticism-Complaints section. If I read some of it correctly, they are experts on SY's declared practices, and complaining that SY is too timid and moderate to declare more divinity — a complaint from the hierarchist right. It would fit well with RMHP's documentation of complaints from the anti-hierarchist left — that there is already too much declaration of divinity. Assembled sequentially, these two opposing complaints make SY look like the moderate center of practice. As I understand it, taking the middle path is considered a virtue in much of India. -Milo 22:55, 14 December 2006 (UTC) I agree with Milo in saying that it belongs in the criticism- complaints section. I wouldnt agree that the author of the site is an expert but that is another matter altogether. If moved to the criticism-complaints section it would make it evident to a reader that this view exists but that it is not an accepted view of the majority of individuals who practice Sahaj Yoga. -Willia 11:21, 15 December 2006 (UTC) Perhaps I misunderstand, but the group behind www.adishakti.org appears to be a schism, branch, or rival of Sahaja Yoga. If so, schisms, branches and rivals typically know with ultimate expertise how they differ from each other, since otherwise they would have less reason to exist. -Milo 09:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC) That seems like a good assessment. -Will Beback · † · 09:40, 16 December 2006 (UTC) They do not describe themselves as such... -Sfacets 09:52, 16 December 2006 (UTC) That's not unusual among religious or philosophical rivals, due to the frequent 'we're the one true' and the 'who's a heretic' positions by which some converts are persuaded. I can't recall the last time I read that Catholics and Protestants were " rivals " (in religion), " schism " is term best known by the educated, and " branch " is almost exclusively an academic term (except for " Branch Davidians " ). Therefore, both the common knowledge and academic analysis is constructional: rivals are identified by having an in- common focus of devotion, but with more or less differing practices of devotion. Intense complaints, as in this case, make for an easy common knowledge rivalry assessment. For example, the person in the street commonly knows that Jesus Christ is the in-common focus of both Catholic and Protestant devotions, and that the intensely disputed devotional practice of naming a Pope is their most important differentiation. -Milo 18:08, 16 December 2006 (UTC) But can you really call this a schism or branch, when we are unaware of the number of believers in this philosophy? Surely these qualifiers may only be used when applied to a movement, rather than an isolated theory? The definition of 'schism' for instance, is given as " a split or division between strongly opposed sections or parties, caused by differences in opinion or belief. " (source Oxford dictionary) while here what is in question is both the number of adherents to the divergent philosophy as well as the degree of opposition. -Sfacets 18:25, 16 December 2006 (UTC) " can you really call this a schism or branch " I didn't; rather, I called them rivals. -Milo 21:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC) " Perhaps I misunderstand, but the group behind www.adishakti.org appears to be a schism, branch, or rival of Sahaja Yoga. " - also in what capacity would you say they are rivals? -Sfacets 22:24, 16 December 2006 (UTC) " in what capacity would you say they are rivals? " Please refer to my statement posted 18:08, 16 Dec above. -Milo 22:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC) We don't know how many people practice SY, so I don't see why we should be picky about how many followers this related group has. What is the most appropriate label for this group, or do we even need to label them? -Will Beback · † · 19:47, 16 December 2006 (UTC) I agree, Its all semantics really. Going back to the point that I made the other day; the author of the link in question makes it pretty obvious that he and his 3 children are no longer part of Sahaja Yoga or the Sahaja Yoga International (Vishwa Nirmala Dharma) organisation and since this organisation is what the wiki entry is telling people about then it makes sense to me that the link should be mentioned but under a 'criticism-complains' or 'alternate views' section. To me it really makes no difference if it is a schism, breakaway group, faction, rival or whatever. -Willia 13:58, 18 December 2006 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sahaja_Yoga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 , " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org wrote: > And to those who want to serve the Adi Shakti unconditionally you > will have to disassociate yourself completely from WCASY and the > organization they have hijacked. If you truly know Her it will be a > most welcome choice against those who claim to represent Her Will. > And when i say " Her " i mean Brahman within! So do not squander your > greatest chance of finally attaining moksa after toiling for > countless rebirths. i seek no recognition, honor or praise in my duty > towards Devi and the Sanatana Dharma .......... or against those who > oppose it. Thus if i have to fight 125,000 i will most willingly. > > Jai Ganapathy, > > > jagbir Dear All, Here again are the Words of Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi... " You have to dedicate yourself completely to me, not to Sahaja Yoga, but to me. Sahaja Yoga is only one of my aspects. Leaving everything you have to dedicate. Complete dedication – otherwise you cannot ascend any further. Without questioning, Without arguing, complete dedication is the only way you can achieve it. " (Shri Mataji - Cheltenham, U.K. – 31 July 1982) violet , " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org wrote: > > , " Violet " > <violet.tubb@> wrote: > > > > > > As i said before, to even mention " Sahaja Yogis " is an insult for > > their dereliction of duty and unfathomable fear to bear witness and > > uphold the Sanatana Dharma. But the Aykaa Mayee has incarnated with > > all Her powers. There are numerous incidents in Sikh history where > > a lone or a few determined and inspired Sikhs stood their ground > > against heavy odds justifying Guru Gobind Singh's fiat " Savah lakh > > se ek laron, tabe Gobind Singh naam kahaoon " - " If I, Guru Gobind > > Singh, deserve my name, a single Sikh will confront 125,000. " > > > > The same goes for the Adi Shakti! If we have prevailed in our past > > lives fighting for Her Cause and the Sanatana Dharma have no doubt > > that we will prevail yet again. Do we have 125,000 SYs worldwide? > > > > Jai Shri Ganapathy, > > > > > > jagbir > > > > Dear devotees of the Adi Shakti, > > Namaskar: I bow to the Brahman that resides in you. > > It is not without good reason i am willing to challenge 125,000 SYs > against www.adishakti.org, whenever they reach the mass worthy of > battling. To those sitting on the fence i say you cannot serve two > masters. Either stand unconditionally behind the Adi Shakti and Her > Divine Message to humanity or WCASY and their Sahaja Yoga Subtle > System Religion. You can either empower Shri Mataji's success or > WCASY's. That choice is entirely yours. So weigh it carefully because > your release from rebirth depends entirely on whom you serve. Please > do not fool yourself by believing you can serve both. > > It is obvious that the WCASY, of whom Sahajhist is a watchdog, is > dead against www.adishakti.org. Even before the formation of WCASY > most of the leaders, starting from Yogi Mahajan, were against the > revelations of the Adi Shakti. So it is not a recent development. > Today Sahajhist has their tacit approval to do everything possible to > prevent SYs/seekers from visiting www.adishakti.org. Appended below > is the evidence of what i am saying. > > So to all SYs who follow WCASY and are against www.adishakti.org, i > am more than willing to go against all of you to make sure that Shri > Mataji's Divine Message reaches humanity. i am absolutely sure that > the Truth will triumph, and destroy all obstacles on its path. i will > see what's left of WCASY and their SYSSR a decade from today. > > And to those who want to serve the Adi Shakti unconditionally you > will have to disassociate yourself completely from WCASY and the > organization they have hijacked. If you truly know Her it will be a > most welcome choice against those who claim to represent Her Will. > And when i say " Her " i mean Brahman within! So do not squander your > greatest chance of finally attaining moksa after toiling for > countless rebirths. i seek no recognition, honor or praise in my duty > towards Devi and the Sanatana Dharma .......... or against those who > oppose it. Thus if i have to fight 125,000 i will most willingly. > > Jai Ganapathy, > > > jagbir > > -------------- > > > Shri Adi Shakti: The Kingdom Of God > Why have links to this website been deleted repeatedly? Sfacets > removed it again today, saying " rmv website - not on SY " . Clearly it > concerns Sahaja Yoga, which is mentioned 38 times on the home page > alone. > Please explain in more detail how this website has no relevance to > this article. > -Will Beback · † · 21:07, 12 December 2006 (UTC) > > The group behind the website do not consider themselves Sahaja Yogis, > although they practice techniques taught by SY. > -Sfacets 07:22, 13 December 2006 (UTC) > > They also comment extensively about SY, therefore it's relevant. > -Will Beback · † · 07:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC) > > Can you give examples? > -Sfacets 11:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC) > > We can start with the 38 mentions on the home page, which I already > mentioned. > -Will Beback · † · 11:59, 13 December 2006 (UTC) > > If this site is to be included then it should be under a heading > called something like 'alternative views' since although the link > does mention Sahaja Yoga 38 times it also plainly tells the reader > that the author no longer considers themselves to be part of Sahaja > Yoga and in fact acknowledges that some of his views are unaccepted > by the Sahaja Yoga community. As this wiki page is about Sahaja Yoga > and the Sahaja Yoga International (Vishwa Nirmala Dharma) > organization that has been created by Shri Mataji then it would be > misleading to have the link under an ambiguous heading. > -Willia 19:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC) > > I don't object to calling it an " alternative view " . > -Will Beback · † · 19:33, 14 December 2006 (UTC) > > I think it belongs in the Criticism-Complaints section. If I read > some of it correctly, they are experts on SY's declared practices, > and complaining that SY is too timid and moderate to declare more > divinity — a complaint from the hierarchist right. It would fit well > with RMHP's documentation of complaints from the anti-hierarchist > left — that there is already too much declaration of divinity. > Assembled sequentially, these two opposing complaints make SY look > like the moderate center of practice. As I understand it, taking the > middle path is considered a virtue in much of India. > -Milo 22:55, 14 December 2006 (UTC) > > I agree with Milo in saying that it belongs in the criticism- > complaints section. I wouldnt agree that the author of the site is an > expert but that is another matter altogether. If moved to the > criticism-complaints section it would make it evident to a reader > that this view exists but that it is not an accepted view of the > majority of individuals who practice Sahaj Yoga. > -Willia 11:21, 15 December 2006 (UTC) > > Perhaps I misunderstand, but the group behind www.adishakti.org > appears to be a schism, branch, or rival of Sahaja Yoga. If so, > schisms, branches and rivals typically know with ultimate expertise > how they differ from each other, since otherwise they would have less > reason to exist. > -Milo 09:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC) > > That seems like a good assessment. > -Will Beback · † · 09:40, 16 December 2006 (UTC) > > They do not describe themselves as such... > -Sfacets 09:52, 16 December 2006 (UTC) > > That's not unusual among religious or philosophical rivals, due to > the frequent 'we're the one true' and the 'who's a heretic' positions > by which some converts are persuaded. I can't recall the last time I > read that Catholics and Protestants were " rivals " (in > religion), " schism " is term best known by the educated, and " branch " > is almost exclusively an academic term (except for " Branch > Davidians " ). Therefore, both the common knowledge and academic > analysis is constructional: rivals are identified by having an in- > common focus of devotion, but with more or less differing practices > of devotion. Intense complaints, as in this case, make for an easy > common knowledge rivalry assessment. > > For example, the person in the street commonly knows that Jesus > Christ is the in-common focus of both Catholic and Protestant > devotions, and that the intensely disputed devotional practice of > naming a Pope is their most important differentiation. > -Milo 18:08, 16 December 2006 (UTC) > > But can you really call this a schism or branch, when we are unaware > of the number of believers in this philosophy? Surely these > qualifiers may only be used when applied to a movement, rather than > an isolated theory? The definition of 'schism' for instance, is given > as " a split or division between strongly opposed sections or parties, > caused by differences in opinion or belief. " (source Oxford > dictionary) while here what is in question is both the number of > adherents to the divergent philosophy as well as the degree of > opposition. > -Sfacets 18:25, 16 December 2006 (UTC) > > " can you really call this a schism or branch " I didn't; rather, I > called them rivals. > -Milo 21:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC) > > " Perhaps I misunderstand, but the group behind www.adishakti.org > appears to be a schism, branch, or rival of Sahaja Yoga. " - also in > what capacity would you say they are rivals? > -Sfacets 22:24, 16 December 2006 (UTC) > > " in what capacity would you say they are rivals? " Please refer to my > statement posted 18:08, 16 Dec above. > -Milo 22:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC) > > We don't know how many people practice SY, so I don't see why we > should be picky about how many followers this related group has. What > is the most appropriate label for this group, or do we even need to > label them? > -Will Beback · † · 19:47, 16 December 2006 (UTC) > > I agree, Its all semantics really. Going back to the point that I > made the other day; the author of the link in question makes it > pretty obvious that he and his 3 children are no longer part of > Sahaja Yoga or the Sahaja Yoga International (Vishwa Nirmala Dharma) > organisation and since this organisation is what the wiki entry is > telling people about then it makes sense to me that the link should > be mentioned but under a 'criticism-complains' or 'alternate views' > section. To me it really makes no difference if it is a schism, > breakaway group, faction, rival or whatever. > -Willia 13:58, 18 December 2006 (UTC) > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sahaja_Yoga > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 , " jagbir singh " <adishakti_org wrote: > > And to those who want to serve the Adi Shakti unconditionally you > will have to disassociate yourself completely from WCASY and the > organization they have hijacked. If you truly know Her it will be a > most welcome choice against those who claim to represent Her Will. > And when i say " Her " i mean Brahman within! So do not squander your > greatest chance of finally attaining moksa after toiling for > countless rebirths. i seek no recognition, honor or praise in my > duty towards Devi and the Sanatana Dharma .......... or against > those who oppose it. Thus if i have to fight 125,000 i will most > willingly. > > Jai Ganapathy, > > > jagbir > SADA BHAVAH SANAATANAH, SANATANAM KAROTI ITI SANATAN YATI, SANATAN YATITI SANATANAH| SANATANASHCHASOU DHARMA ITI SANATAN DHARMAH Sanatan Dharma is eternal not because it owes its inception to the eternal God. It is eternal not because it is timeless and indestructible. Sanatan is eternal because it is capable of making all those who have faith in it eternal by providing them the 'ultimate knowledge'. What does the Adi Shakti at http://adishakti.org reveal other than the 'ultimate knowledge' to make you eternal? It is imperative that Her Divine Message to humanity be protected and preserved at all cost! Since management SYs are now actively subverting Her Advent and Mission, from now onwards it will either be your allegiance to the Devi or WCASY, not both. You will empower WCASY at your own peril. Jai Shri Ganapathy, jagbir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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