Sahaja Yoga and Free Will

[Guest guest]

Important addendeum:

 

This doesn't give a person license to do anything he wants. For then,

he will cause and experience very negative results. The illusions of

free will and responsibility for actions are still important

[Guest guest]

, " Dave " <dspear wrote:

>

> Sahaja Yoga and Free Will

>

> I have always been puzzled by the question of free will. It seemed

> that my choices have been entirely based on a complex of reasons

> based on the totality of what I am at the instant of the choice. It

> was inevitable that I would make that choice since it was totally

> based on reasons. Free will implies a choice made based on true

> randomness rather than totally on reasons. But if it had

> randomness, it wasn't my free will anyway.

>

 

This is a really complex subject that is quite difficult to reason

correctly at times Dave. i believe free will is your desire to do as

you please. The free will/desire of the murderer to strangle his

victim is the same as my free will to reject all violence. We have

our own good reasons to pursue contradictory acts. We are free to act

our will. i do not think that people act with randomness. That would

make a very reckless, chaotic society.

 

>

> Again, conventional reincarnation theory states that the spirit has

> the free will to choose what body it is reincarnated in. But why

> would millions of spirits choose a body that is aborted before it

> even gets a start?

>

 

Only a liberated spirit has the freedom to reincarnate in any form,

eternally assured of returning back to its liberated form. The spirit

of a murderer has to pay the penalty of its karmic acts. Perhaps

being born a cripple would be a small price to pay for strangling

humans in the last life........... so it continues into the next and

next till full due is paid. The Conscious Universe/Divine is pretty

effective i would say in maintaining the perfect equilibrium - no

act, whether good or bad, will go unrewarded.

 

>

> For me, the usual rebuttal to the no-free-will theory is: if we

> don't have free will and everything is fore-ordained, then what is

> the purpose of life? I have just realized an answer to this

> rebuttal:

>

 

Most humans have free will. i believe liberated beings are pre-

ordained to act their parts. Shri Mataji, as the incarnation of the

Adi Shakti, played Her incarnated part. She was preordained to do

what She has done. The same goes for all the incarnations and

prophets. For the countless souls Earth should be regarded as a

ghetto and sincere efforts made to leave it as soon as possible.

Those who wish to stay have the absolute free will to do so. Perhaps

after a few more rebirths you may decide enough is enough ......

perhaps after a million if not awakened from the spiritual slumber by

the Divine.

 

>

> The purpose of life is to experience it.

>

 

Definitely ...................... and learn from living it.

 

>

> When we listen to a recording of a symphony, each note is fore-

> ordained. But the experiencing of the symphony is the important

> thing. Indeed, we seem built to often want to experience the same

> known symphony many times. So when we make a " choice " which is

> really not a choice but based on our reasons at the instant, we

> have the illusion (maya) of choice, but the important thing is the

> experiencing of the result of this " choice " . Similarly, the spirit

> of the aborted fetus has experienced that short life.

>

 

The aborted fetus who just heard the first few opening notes of the

symphony orchestra will attempt to next time hear the entire musical

program. It will understand/appreciate music much better then. So

those of us who have successfully sat through the middle or three-

quarters into this great music of life should thank our past lives.

And by the great music of life i do not mean a " heavy metal " concert.

......... but you have the free will to listen to either at any point.

 

>

> How does this fit in with Sahaja Yoga? Exceedingly well. When we go

> into thoughtless awareness, we are really giving up the illusion of

> free will (thoughtless), and going into the direct experience of

> life (awareness).

>

 

Very true. The ant is trying to understand the universe.

 

>

> Important addendeum:

>

> This doesn't give a person license to do anything he wants. For

> then, he will cause and experience very negative results. The

> illusions of free will and responsibility for actions are still

> important

>

 

You will _always_ reap the harvest of the karmic seeds you sow. The

chances of a good harvest are absolutely assured through endless

rebirths. A few will make great sacrifices to ultimately find, or are

shown by the Divine the secret path leading to the liberating seeds

........... within themselves. The vast majority will be fruitlessly

looking for them in temples, churches, mosques, synagogues and

gurdwaras .............. as they have many times before.

 

regards,

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

Dear Jagbir,

With regards to what you have written in the post below;

''Only a liberated spirit has the freedom to reincarnate in any form,

eternally assured of returning back to its liberated form. The spirit

of a murderer has to pay the penalty of its karmic acts. Perhaps

being born a cripple would be a small price to pay for strangling

humans in the last life........... so it continues into the next and

next till full due is paid. The Conscious Universe/Divine is pretty

effective i would say in maintaining the perfect equilibrium - no

act, whether good or bad, will go unrewarded.''

 

I have some trouble with the concept of karma, and I find it

difficult to accept that suffering and misfortunes are the simply

result of retribution. This would mean that people deserve to

suffer, and is a concept devoid of compassion.

My thoughts are that suffering is something universal, a part of the

human condition, and that what makes the difference is how we cope

with and get through these periods of suffering.

Love, Semira

 

 

 

, " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org wrote:

>

> , " Dave " <dspear@>

wrote:

> >

> > Sahaja Yoga and Free Will

> >

> > I have always been puzzled by the question of free will. It

seemed

> > that my choices have been entirely based on a complex of reasons

> > based on the totality of what I am at the instant of the choice.

It

> > was inevitable that I would make that choice since it was totally

> > based on reasons. Free will implies a choice made based on true

> > randomness rather than totally on reasons. But if it had

> > randomness, it wasn't my free will anyway.

> >

>

> This is a really complex subject that is quite difficult to reason

> correctly at times Dave. i believe free will is your desire to do

as

> you please. The free will/desire of the murderer to strangle his

> victim is the same as my free will to reject all violence. We have

> our own good reasons to pursue contradictory acts. We are free to

act

> our will. i do not think that people act with randomness. That

would

> make a very reckless, chaotic society.

>

> >

> > Again, conventional reincarnation theory states that the spirit

has

> > the free will to choose what body it is reincarnated in. But why

> > would millions of spirits choose a body that is aborted before it

> > even gets a start?

> >

>

> Only a liberated spirit has the freedom to reincarnate in any form,

> eternally assured of returning back to its liberated form. The

spirit

> of a murderer has to pay the penalty of its karmic acts. Perhaps

> being born a cripple would be a small price to pay for strangling

> humans in the last life........... so it continues into the next

and

> next till full due is paid. The Conscious Universe/Divine is pretty

> effective i would say in maintaining the perfect equilibrium - no

> act, whether good or bad, will go unrewarded.

>

> >

> > For me, the usual rebuttal to the no-free-will theory is: if we

> > don't have free will and everything is fore-ordained, then what

is

> > the purpose of life? I have just realized an answer to this

> > rebuttal:

> >

>

> Most humans have free will. i believe liberated beings are pre-

> ordained to act their parts. Shri Mataji, as the incarnation of the

> Adi Shakti, played Her incarnated part. She was preordained to do

> what She has done. The same goes for all the incarnations and

> prophets. For the countless souls Earth should be regarded as a

> ghetto and sincere efforts made to leave it as soon as possible.

> Those who wish to stay have the absolute free will to do so.

Perhaps

> after a few more rebirths you may decide enough is enough ......

> perhaps after a million if not awakened from the spiritual slumber

by

> the Divine.

>

> >

> > The purpose of life is to experience it.

> >

>

> Definitely ...................... and learn from living it.

>

> >

> > When we listen to a recording of a symphony, each note is fore-

> > ordained. But the experiencing of the symphony is the important

> > thing. Indeed, we seem built to often want to experience the same

> > known symphony many times. So when we make a " choice " which is

> > really not a choice but based on our reasons at the instant, we

> > have the illusion (maya) of choice, but the important thing is

the

> > experiencing of the result of this " choice " . Similarly, the

spirit

> > of the aborted fetus has experienced that short life.

> >

>

> The aborted fetus who just heard the first few opening notes of the

> symphony orchestra will attempt to next time hear the entire

musical

> program. It will understand/appreciate music much better then. So

> those of us who have successfully sat through the middle or three-

> quarters into this great music of life should thank our past lives.

> And by the great music of life i do not mean a " heavy metal "

concert.

> ........ but you have the free will to listen to either at any

point.

>

> >

> > How does this fit in with Sahaja Yoga? Exceedingly well. When we

go

> > into thoughtless awareness, we are really giving up the illusion

of

> > free will (thoughtless), and going into the direct experience of

> > life (awareness).

> >

>

> Very true. The ant is trying to understand the universe.

>

> >

> > Important addendeum:

> >

> > This doesn't give a person license to do anything he wants. For

> > then, he will cause and experience very negative results. The

> > illusions of free will and responsibility for actions are still

> > important

> >

>

> You will _always_ reap the harvest of the karmic seeds you sow. The

> chances of a good harvest are absolutely assured through endless

> rebirths. A few will make great sacrifices to ultimately find, or

are

> shown by the Divine the secret path leading to the liberating seeds

> .......... within themselves. The vast majority will be fruitlessly

> looking for them in temples, churches, mosques, synagogues and

> gurdwaras .............. as they have many times before.

>

> regards,

>

> jagbir

>