WCASY project 'Centre of Evolutionary Learning'

[Guest guest]

Hi Violet, I'd have to go out and re-read the CEL website again to give specifics. I will do that at some point but wanted to get back to you now. I am not online very often these days. In general, as a business person myself, looking at the site as a business person I would not give it a second look due to the misspelled English words and grammatical errors. If I were a business person alone and not a Sahaja Yogi as well, I wouldn't get past the first page. I'll get back to you with specifics later. Good to read you again. SuzyViolet <violet.tubb wrote: Dear Suzy,Hi! It is really nice to hear from you again (smile).There are a few things that are unclear, so i will copy & paste and reply: , Suzy Creamcheese <suzyogi wrote:>> All,> > A couple of things in your comments have been missing. First, if your target is the business/professional community then the CEL site needs first to correct the misspelled and misused English. [Are you talking to the CEL Teachers? What word is misspelled and misused in English?]Second, the "scientific evidence" cited isn't at all scientific. [Why is it not scientific?

Shri Mataji has united the spiritual and the scientific, hasn't She?]There is no way this website, as it stands, will appeal to a business professional. [Why would it not appeal to a business professional? Especially if they are not interested in religion, as such, but are interested in something that looks 'more secular'?]> > That is all in addition to what seems to be the blasphemy of taking the Avatar, Our Mother, out of the equation.[i think the fact that this is coming from Sahaja Yoga and Shri Mataji should be known. That is why Her Advent needs to be "officially announced" i believe. In the CEL, it looks like the approach is to let business men approach Sahaja Yoga (Union with the Divine) and Shri Mataji through spiritual life principles. It may work, Suzy, to open a little bit of their heart. However, they may wonder why later, when they discover it was from Sahaja Yoga and Shri Mataji, why

this fact was so "strictly hidden" from sight. They may feel there was a bit of deception, therefore. It may make them feel a bit funny, therefore. That is why i believe it needs to be known, 'a priori' as an established fact in the public attention, that we have a Sahaja Yoga and we have a Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, as explained in detail below!!!]Your comments are greatly appreciated, Suzy, and if you could just clarify that would be greatly appreciated!regards and love to you,violet> Regards and love to all,> Suzy , Suzy Creamcheese <suzyogi wrote:>> All,> > A couple of things in your comments have been missing. First, if your target is the business/professional community then the CEL site needs first to correct the misspelled and misused English.

Second, the "scientific evidence" cited isn't at all scientific. There is no way this website, as it stands, will appeal to a business professional. > > That is all in addition to what seems to be the blasphemy of taking the Avatar, Our Mother, out of the equation.> > Regards and love to all,> Suzy> > > Violet <violet.tubb wrote:> Here are the anonymous person's excerpted preliminiary remarks, in relation to the 'Conversations with the Divine' - June 2007:> > Dear Violet,> > A few things to note:> > a) I see nothing here about Shri Mataji saying not to speak about Her. (unless I've missed it somewhere.)> > b)There are also points Shri Mataji has made re the growth of America> > c) There's even a wee conversation of Shri Mataji with Andrei, Canada, Kurta and Sari Distribution, etc.> > I'm a bit perplexed as to the purported statement by Shri Mataji to not talk about Her, especially as this isn't present in the attachment I've got here. ( A WCASY add-on ?... )> > Perhaps the "Don't talk about Me" was simply not recorded, even if Shri Mataji actually said it - why that might be the case, however, I don't know.> > There is no indication of who the author is of the enclosed "Conversations", not that I can see, anyway. Andrei, Canada is the only name mentioned re the 'Canada' conversation:"> >

Conversations with the DIVINE> > June 2007, Cabella Ligure, Italy> > During the last 10 days of June 2007, it was an extraordinary blessing to be in the presence of SHRI MATAJI in HER castle in Cabella Ligure, Italy, and to have experienced truly blissful moments in HER DIVINE company. These moments which were marked by extraordinary conversations occurred on different days over varying lengths of time. However, there was a predominant theme running through all of these meetings. This theme was HER concern regarding a clear absence of growth of SAHAJA YOGA amongst individuals born and raised in the United States. One ought to interpret this to mean 'mainstream' American society.> > The conversations took place in the form of questions and answers, a gestalt of which I shall endeavor to

summarize hereafter. Basically, SHRI MATAJI was and remains clear in HER opinion that unless SAHAJA spreads in the US (hereafter to be interpreted as `mainstream' US), there is a clear and present danger that this country would end up destroying itself. Given its prominence on the world stage, the consequences of such an eventuality for the rest of the world would be equally worrisome.> > There was a lot of discussion as to why, after individuals, after getting their realization, attend a few follow-up programs but thereafter tend to drop off. One tried to put forward some 'reasons' as to why growth remains limited in the US, none of which are stated in this report. SHRI MATAJI completely or partly accepted these 'reasons' with the love and patience that only SHE can convey. However, SHE superbly summarized the situation and offered some solutions which are reported herein.> > SHRI MATAJI's

expressions> > 1. The US was the first place SHE visited outside of India due to HER concern and love for the seekers in this country.> > 2. If SAHAJA yogis number approx. 1200 in the US with a population of 300 million which is almost the exact amount of yogis in a place like Italy whose population is approx. 30 million, in ratio terms, we should have at least ten times our present number to be even at par with a country like Italy.> > 3. Although spiritual heritage is missing in the US, it is not exactly in abundance in places like Western Europe and Russia where the growth of SAHAJA YOGA is far more satisfactory. Most importantly, SHE has been accepted by mainstream populations of all these nations relative to the US where for most part, growth is non-organic and clearly excludes mainstream Americans. Growth through immigration does not truly count for exactly the same reason i.e. it

excludes American natives.> > 4. In the 70's, and 80's, the US was visited by approx. 12 false gurus from India who deceived the population and led them astray in terms of spiritual guidance. This has worked to the tremendous detriment to all things 'Indian' particularly in the sphere of spiritualism and therefore in all likelihood has made Americans wary of SAHAJA YOGA. The fact that in the process, these false gurus built personal fortunes worth hundreds of millions by taking full advantage of their naivete, further reinforces a deeply established mistrust of all aspects spiritual, emanating from India.> > 5. Although Americans may look at most things in life from a materialistic lens, they have to realize that most things in life which are essential for survival are in fact free! For e.g. the air we breathe!> > 6. Americans do not seem to get as much love and understanding from

their families as compared to other cultures, e.g. India. It would be essential for the growth of SAHAJA in the US that they feel and experience this love and compassion which they may have so far missed in their personal lives.> > 7. Americans by nature are not seekers of a higher truth, perhaps due to an abundance of material prosperity. However, this is in contrast to a place like India where even well-off individuals seek a higher truth.> > 8. American yogis (not immigrants) have to examine and elucidate the reasons why they were attracted to and have continued to remain in SAHAJA YOGA. They should ask themselves a key question: "What is it about Shri Mataji and SAHAJA YOGA that makes it so unique and important for me in my life?" They should then try and reach out to mainstream Americans with the same messages.> > 9. Ordinary Americans have to see and identify with their 'own

kind' in order to recognize the benefits of SAHAJA YOGA. This will not easily happen if all they see are Indians propagating SAHAJA YOGA.> > 10. American yogis have thus to take center stage and lead this endeavor. All other ethnicities, including Indians, can play a truly supportive role in helping out with this grand venture.> > 11. Opening SAHAJA schools in various American cities in order to get in more children would be an ideal way to propagate SAHAJA. Children attending SAHAJA schools are completely happy within that environment and if that can be replicated to attract children from non-yogi families that would be a wonderful way of getting SAHAJA into American families. If parents notice that their children are very happy and content with a SAHAJA school (and its attendant culture), the probability of success of their acceptance of Sahaja automatically becomes very high.> >

Finally SHRI MATAJI said that SHE will come to America. SHE said that SHE will not give up yet. However, SHE repeatedly asked this question, "You tell Me what it is that I should tell the American public that will make them accept SAHAJA YOGA?"> > That in essence is the challenge for all of us. SHRI MATAJI wants to come to America, not necessarily for us but for all those who have yet to see HER light.> > Conversations with the Divine Part 2> > July, August 2007> > The days following Guru Puja saw a gradual shift in the attention of Shri Mataji to the land of Shri Krishna and the issues of America and I as well as others were extremely fortunate to be able to have the tremendous blessing of being in HER presence in Cabella during this time.> > During these days leading up to Shri Krishna Puja, Shri Mataji spoke on topics ranging from how to reach the seekers of

America, to the corporate outreach of CEL, to HER experiences during the time of Indian independence, and at every moment SHE was full of encouragement and enthusiasm for the tasks ahead of us. Recorded below is a humble attempt to summarize the main points of these conversations, some of which I was not present for but received a detailed summary of, that are included below. These moments are precious and HER guidance to us as well as the stories of HER past are of inestimable value now and for the generations to come.> > America:> > Because the seekers of America are very independent and self-reliant, Shri Mataji had specific advice on topics to convey to them in a manner that will appeal to this aspect of their nature:> > . Tell the seekers that true freedom and independence comes from self knowledge, and that they should know that they have this instrument within themselves and it

is their own. We should tell them to "Know Thyself".> > . Once they have felt the existence of the instrument within, they should be told that they can diagnose their own problems through some knowledge of the centers and that they can correct them without anyone telling them.> > . This ability to clear their own problems at the level of the centers will allow them to become independent of the doctors and psychiatrists and the medications they prescribe and will save the money that is wasted on these dependencies.> > [Note: At other times, Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi has said to visit the doctors, if you need them. So let this not be taken as a 'blanket statement'.> > Also, on the adishakti website and forum, we very much use the approach of "Know Thyself", which Plato or was it Socrates, also taught. We are always talking about "going within", that the Higher Self, is

Brahman, and being "One with the Divine". This is the same approach that Shri Mataji is advocating to Americans! It works! We have not had any complaints about it, and it ties in well with all the religious teachings, also! But we do it against the background of the Declaration of Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi as an Incarnation of the Adi Shakti, Christian Comforter, and so on!> > However, for WCASY to take this a step further, and actually forbid yuva shakti and others from even mentioning about 'Sahaja Yoga' and 'Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi' is going too far! That is institutionalising what does not need to be institutionalised. It is exactly such an 'over-organising' and 'institutionalising' that takes away the joy of the spontaneity of Sahaja Yoga Itself!> > Also, i would say to WCASY: "WCASY, please do not use this as another excuse, to dig your heels in further, in "not declaring" Her Advent as

the leadership head of Sahaja Yoga Organisation. That needs to be there, against the background of which "Know Thyself" can be taught, just as we also do it on the adishakti website and forum. This is the one major sore point (or shall we say 'flaw') that we have all become aware of, about you. If you want to improve your 'bad press', you must declare which Incarnation, which Guru, which Shakti, you are promoting, and go from there. This is also what Shri Mataji asked you to do, and which you have not yet done. We are still waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting for you to do the 'right thing by us, and by Shri Mataji'......... Will we have to wait forever? Will it actually never come from "you"? But i am reminded that Shri Mataji told that if "you" don't give Her Message, it will be given "from outside of the organisation". So all bases> are covered here. We are all part and parcel of each other,

'ex-communicated' and 'hopefully-not-to-be-excommunicated-ones', until who will be left in the actual organisation at the end?!> > Moreover, who will want to come to an organisation that 'ex-communicates' its most enlightened 'drops of the Ocean of the Divine'? This is not Christianity, or any other religion; this is Sahaja Yoga! Sahaja Yoga does not 'ex-communicate' its 'drops of the Ocean', so what "are you" who do this wrongful thing, which is resulting in the karma of 'bad press' for you, and not for Sahaja Yoga! Sahaja Yoga will live on, because it is your 'Union with the Divine', but "you" who do not step up to the High Mark of Leadership, entrusted to your "own free will", Shri Mataji will not enforce you, but it will be there on your own soul, registered there, for all Time to come; i don't wish that on you, and therefore am warning you. Because one day you will hang your head and cry

in shame for what you have done, unless you reform your ways and again embrace 'in Spirit' those you have 'ex-communicated', rectifying the whole to the way Shri Mataji taught it! It is in your own best interests> to do so, but you may fail to see that fact. Shri Mataji will never force you, you must know this. She has to respect your "free will" to do whatever you want to do, even when others have to suffer because of it. (End Note)]> > [Resuming the topic]....> > 'America':> > . Shri Mataji suggested that seekers begin immediately to work on themselves and others, and in that way will feel that they have something. Even if they cannot feel it and the person they are working on does, this will encourage them.> > Shri

Mataji went on to address general topics about America that came up and these are summarized below.> > . Shri Mataji said that She was very happy with the spread of Sahaja Yoga in Russia and that maybe communism is a good thing. She said democracy in America is hopeless if the result is what is happening today with the seekers and their materialistic focus. She said She has been very kind and patient with them, but that She is going to tell them, and hopefully this will work. Shri Mataji said that SHE wants to come to America.> > . 12 false gurus came to America from India and looted the seekers of all their wealth and built big ashrams and now who is going to stay in them? Shri Mataji said that the Americans were stupid to listen to them and that you have to be intelligent to understand Sahaja Yoga. These gurus are finished but their effects linger on.> > . Shri Mataji explained that

Americans teach their children a love for money by paying them to do things for the parents that they should do out of love such as washing the car and chores in the house. She expressed hope that their children will put them right. She said that you have to love your children and that if you don't Sahaja will not love you. Not only your children, but all children. You must love and respect them, as they do not care if you are a saint. They just care for your love. She said that if this happens this world will change.> > Shri Mataji was informed about the existence of the Kubera fund in America and was asked about the propriety to be given to the disbursement of the funds i.e. towards the establishment of centers or more direct forms of outreach to the seekers. Shri Mataji first asked how many centers could really be obtained with these funds and when it was explained that the fund is making down payments on

mortgages that are then paid by the centers, She said to prioritize the centers but balance some outreach also.> > . Shri Mataji was presented with a beginners' book on Sahaja Yoga designed to take seekers remote from centers through the whole process of Sahaja Yoga and asked for Her advice for a title. She said that it should be called "Know Thyself" but should not be given at the beginning, but rather at a secondary stage.> > CEL (Center for Evolutionary Learning)> > Shri Mataji was presented an update on the efforts of CEL, which has been reaching out to the corporate world to give training on enlightened management principles and the manifestation of a positive and balanced working environment through the practice of meditation. A branch of this international organization has just been established in America and when Shri Mataji was informed of their progress in Europe, She

offered the comments below:> > . Now I have hope that My Incarnation is not wasted! God has put you in your positions and you are responsible. That's why God put you on this earth. I am only a housewife. The world is looking for your leadership.> > . There is no light in organizations. They have buildings and offices but they don't have light.> > . The Islamic world failed because of bad management, particularly on the woman's side. Now you bring vibrations to management.> > . Don't be afraid. This time nobody can kill you. The laws are supporting truth. Nowadays everything is recorded – you can look things up what was said, nobody can change it. In the past it was easy for religions to be turned around, but not today. You can say what you want as long as it is the truth.> > . Italians are very good people but they are ignorant. Iraqis are not bad people but they

have been stupid.> > . Two mayors (Albera and Cabella) recognized Me as the Mother of Christ, so they were wise. Even if I am that, so what? What matters is what you have to get from Me. Now I am the Mother of Sahaja Yogis. First they were thinking to send a man, but you needed a Mother. Christ could not have done this.> > . You don't need to be afraid. Go ahead. You should get good positions. God has put you in these positions.> > . This is a day of celebration. What nice vibrations, nice kundalinis.> > . If trees can feel love, even managers can feel it. Managers, I will take care of that. Are you satisfied now?> > . Speak the truth and give love. You have no idea of the power behind you.> > . If you hate, really hate, then actually you love because you are putting so much attention on a person. That's today's way of loving. Selfishness leads to

love. Love cannot be defined because it is a feeling.> > . Looking at you My heart is filled with hope. I thought My incarnation would be wasted. You are responsible now! Have faith in yourself. When asked by the CEL representatives if they had HER blessings, Shri Mataji replied, "Yes, go full ahead! What other job do you have to do? What other job would you like to do? The Big Johnnies in business and politics have to accept it because it's the truth. Look at Me, I am just a housewife (of the universe Gregoire said), but I am not afraid of anyone. No one can do this job other than you. You are fully responsible! Be courageous. The time has come! You all know the truth, but now the Big Johnnies have to find it...> > . Money cannot buy joy, but you can use money for loving. Direct it towards love. The whole world is changing. Go ahead. Expand, expand! Do anything you need. That is why God put

you on this earth.> > KURTA and SARI Distribution...> Indian Independence...> > Cabella and Prathistan...> > Saturday Evening> > At the culmination of the Saturday entertainment evening after seeing the Yuva Shakti and Yogis of America perform and thoroughly enjoying the program, Shri Mataji stated that Her disappointment about America had gone and She felt confident that it would work out! Let us take this as an implicit promise and become Her instruments for the emancipation of the seekers of America and the complete manifestation of the powers of the Vishuddhi upon this earth!> > Conversations with the Divine (about Canada) – July 31> > From Andrei, Canada:> Jai Shri Mataji!> Dear Brothers and Sisters,> Please receive in your hearts the following conversation that took place yesterday between Shri Mataji and one of

our Canadian sisters:> > Shri Mataji: Where are you from? > Yogini: From Canada, Shri Mataji.> Shri Mataji: How is Canada going? > Yogini (tentatively): A bit slow but steady,> > Shri Mataji...> Little pause, then> > Shri Mataji: Canada is good, isn't it? > Yogini: Yes, Shri Mataji...!> Shri Mataji: Canada is in North America but is quite different than > America (meaning US).> > Little pause, then> Shri Mataji: Canada is good...> > May this be great nourishment to the body of our love! Love and > breeze,> > Yuvas @ Cabella and Shri Mataji's questions/advice:> > Our Mother was holding a special attention throughout the seminar. Several yuva Shaktis went to present the plan for the Seminar and the next day they told us about their conversation and what Mother has said. At the beginning of the

seminar most of our concern was for those brothers and sisters who dropped out of sahaja Yoga and those who can't resist temptations that negativities provide. Our Mother said that everything will work out and one day they'll all come back.> > Shri Mataji asked Yuva Shaktis to bring us this message:> > "Tell them, that they have to know themselves." - this was the message She gave to Americans through leaders, however it was also a special message for Yuva Shaktis. Only be being truthful and honest with ourselves we can grow and resist the temptations, we should meditate and introspect in order to know ourselves better.> > Conversations with the Divine (In Dubai about Australia) August 2007> > Shri mataji had a spontaneous talk to the Australian doctors and nurses tonight and here it is in bullet point form:> > In Australia:> > . Drinking is the main

problem> > . Sahaja Yogis don't drink but all others around them do and yogis catch off them> > . The Yogis in Dubai are very good and do not catch> > . Mother said, "I work on Australia every night."> > . Dubai is a Muslim country and they do not drink here.> > . Australians are more abrasive than the Yogis in Dubai who are very good and sweet> > . Some devil must have come to Australia with the alcohol and given > them drinking> > . Did Australians look after the children well, or not, because of the drinking> > . She said, "I have to work hard when I come to Australia."> > . "But the Yogis are good."> > . She said She would like to come in September; "Let's see."> > . The doctors and nurses around Shri Mataji said, "We promise to meditate more and work hard to clear."> > Mother

asked if collective programs of meditation were held in Australia. If the Sahaja Yogis came together to meditate, it would help.> > . She asked for all alcohol companies' names to be given to Her by tomorrow.> > [so folks, that is it. Shri Mataji is working on so many fronts, as you can see. It is good that She is inspiring new hope, to have the yuva shakti and everyone else, given some direction, which was somewhat lacking before. i am really pleased that there is 'some direction' now, that may establish Sahaja Yoga as an 'earthly entitiy'. All the Truth and Love has to come out. It cannot fail. We each just have to continue to do our part, the 'supposedly ex-communicated' and the ones 'hopefully-not-to-be-ex-communicated'. > > i think the whole situation is very much clarified now, and we find no evidence for the 'blanket claim' not to talk about Sahaja Yoga or about Shri Mataji! i think it is just the 'wishful thinking' of certain elements of WCASY, perhaps, for reasons not understood by us! Perhaps they just see, what they want to see, and come to the conclusion of what they see "in their heads" and not the reality that Shri Mataji asked us to openly declare who She is with gusto. So anyone wanting to do that, they are definitely not going against Shri Mataji. They may be going against WCASY, but in the eternal scheme of things, does it really matter? Who is the Master? Your Self. What is the most important thing that Shri Mataji said we must teach. It is "To Know Yourself"!!!> > regards to all,> > violet> > , "my2 pai" <my2pai@> > wrote:>

>> > Dear All,> > > > WCASY's policy of not mentioning Sahaja Yoga or Shri Mataji in CEL's> > activities betrays WCASY's ambivalent and luke-warm attitude > towards Shri> > Mataji as if the very mention of Shri Mataji would cause them undue> > embarassment. According to Shri Mataji these are the people who are > neither> >; hot nor cold, neither here nor there; people who would compromise > with> > truth:> > "...There should be no half growth, as Christ, as He read it out to > you,> > that luke-warm people he spits them out of the mouth. If you're > hot, if> > you're devils, he'll fight you; if you're cold, you're my children. > But> > luke-warm people are cunning, because all kinds of forces are > pulling,> > there's no progress of any kind. You come, you come,

negative, > positive,> > they're pulled this way, that way. There cannot be compromise with > truth."> > (Sat Chit Ananda, Houston, Texas, October 7, 1981)> > > > The smartypants of WCASY who think they are being very clever with > all the> > new techniques and ideas of doing Mother's work should come right > down to> > earth and know that Shri Mataji has also foreseen this tomfoolery, > as Shri> > Mataji put it, more than twenty years ago:> > "...But those who think of the new things all the time, they want > to have> > something new all the time then they are very much mistaken that > when they> > do like this, what we call is a tomfoolery. With the new things > they can> > land themselves into terrible messes and that's what exactly has > happened to> > most of the western

countries; that everything new they try. (...) > So you> > all people should also understand that don't try new things in > Sahaja Yoga;> > Sahaja Yoga is a traditionally built thing. Don't try anything new > in Sahaja> > Yoga. Whatever we have is more than sufficient, you don't try > anything new.> > People who tried new things have jumped into problems. So do not try> > something new. Like somebody says that, nowadays I heard in London > we had> > some people who started giving lectures and giving new methods of > Sahaja> > Yoga suddenly; and they all went mad. Their vibrations were crazy, > I didn't> > know what to do with them. I was quite surprised."> > (Devi Puja, San Diego, May 31 1985)> > > > Perhaps we should all get down to doing more introspection, as we > Sahaja> >

Yogis are so wont to do.> > > > Chandra> > > > > > > > Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.>

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