Guest guest Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Dear Nicole and all, Your message brings comfort at a time when there are many confusing, destructive forces between WCASY, Sir C.P. and Sahaja Yogis - who like sheep have listened to them instead of to Shri Mataji. Some of these yogis would have been with me at Sydney Airport in 1994, and heard Shri Mataji tell that evidence to confirm Her Incarnation would be forthcoming from Montreal, Canada. It's just that they have forgotten about it, that's all! It also so happens that someone who knows Mr. Michael Fogarty and has had a nice relationship with the family, has emailed this past leader who was also at Sydney Airport on that day - in fact was involved in helping to shift the puja from the USA to Montreal, Canada, from what i remember. With such a direct involvement, he surely could not have forgotten what happened. After emails were going to and fro a few times, there was no conclusive, definitive answer gleaned, except nice and newsy communication. i suggested that the person (whose name i cannot disclose) ask Mr. Fogarty: " Do you confirm or deny that Shri Mataji said that children from Montreal, Canada, would give evidence to confirm Her Incarnation? " . This should have brought a " yes " or a " no " answer. Mr. Fogarty emailed back, saying he could " neither confirm nor deny it " , which is to " literally sit on the fence " . You see, i know that Mr. Fogarty was there and i know that him being a moral person and all, that he could not deny something he knows to be true because it would hurt his Spirit. In a way though, i wish that he had denied it, because that would have been more satisfactory in a way. Then i could have felt that he did not remember and therefore was more or less absolved of the responsibility as regards WCASY and SYS treatment of Jagbir's children - just because they did give evidence to confirm Shri Mataji's Incarnation. But since he can " neither confirm or deny " , it makes it much worse in a way. Because it means that if he remembers it, then he is not doing anything about it. And that is like a 'sin of omission'. To me, to say one " neither confirms or denies " the truth, whichever way i look at it, it doesn't look honest and truthful to me. On a brighter note, the fact he could not deny it, means its true. i really don't care about the fact he " could not deny it " . i feel that is his own problem of conscience if he cannot deny it but does nothing about it. i find that a truly sad thing. But of course, i understand his position. If he confirms it, he is in trouble with WCASY. If he denies it, he is in trouble with his own soul. That's why the safest thing all around for Mr. Fogarty, was to say that he could " neither confirm or deny it " . With regards to Sahaja Yoga, it seems we have to choose between truth, or politics - and politics seems to be winning as far as the organisation is concerned. As an aside, Mr. Fogarty helped Sir C.P. launch a book Shri Mataji wanted, called: " Lal Bahadur Shastri - A Life of Truth in Politics " which i highly recommend. i now also know why Shri Mataji highly recommended this book to Sahaja Yogis also. We need more " truth in politics " in Sahaja Yoga: http://books.rediff.com/bookshop/bkproductdisplay.jsp?Lal-Bahdur-Shastri-:-A-Lif\ e-Of-Truth-In-Politics- & prrfnbr=60022086 & pvrfnbr=81287041 & multiple=true & frompg= On a lighter note, i enjoyed the thickening list of 1001. Realisation to a bicycle! So where exactly are the chakras located on the bicycle? How much time do they spend clearing the negativity from the bicycle? Does the bicycle then also give realisation to other bicycles? Just wondering. love from violet , " nicole_bougantouche " <nicole_bougantouche wrote: > > Dear all, > > > i joined the forum about one year ago, because after having spent 10 > years in the collective, i took the decision to quit. At the time i > got my realization, the collective meditations were a real > opportunity to go deep into Shri Mataji's teachings, to share a real, > spontaneous Love, and i must say that after some reunion, i have been > blessed with some tremendous mystic experiences, a genuine feeling of > oneness with the Divine. > > Unfortunately, as time went on, the meditations turned into some sort > of endless lectures from a " sui-generis elite " and to sum it up, at > the end of each meeting we were begged for money, money and more > money. Then i started to feel my heart shutting like an oyster and > started to feel guilty, because, of course according to them, i had a > problem with the collective. > > This period led to a haemorragy of yogis. Most of them had left the > movement, disappointed, cheated, humiliated, and a few of them became > really tough " anti-Shri Matajis " . > > This opened on a period in which i have been witnessig all kinds of > nonsensical, stupid, and devilish happenings. i started to ask Shri > Mataji to show me the way of Truth. > > When i found the present forum i knew immediately that i was at the > right place, with the right people. > > Yes, there is not even a single coma, hyphen of character that i > could disapprove in the present forum. And for having posted a very > tiny amount of material, i can measure the immense dedication, energy > and Love Jagbir and Violet offer to the advancement of the Truth and > I will spare no effort to try to match their quality and calibre. > > Because TRUTH is ABOVE religion, even the organised Sahaja Yoga > religion. > > If PHds are not required to become a Realized soul, humility, > intelligence and innocence are sine qua non conditions. > > So if you are bothered by the length of the material posted, feel > free to get lost elsewhere, and join the " divine kindergarten " which > Jagbir enumerated, with an unprecedent sobriety, a few of the 1008 > nonsense which built over decades it's reputation. And let me add a > few " star-products " such as, how to give realization to your bicycle, > how to bother your peers, asking what should be the appropriate > colour of your wall-paper, according to your vibrations, how to > lecture on the heating effect of some food on the liver while > drinking gallons of coca cola, how to manage to womanize but still > chanting " Jay Ganesha " �. This only to make short as i have a half > tonn of examples in store. > > So please do not hesitate to add me on your list of parias and be > sure that the time will come when i will testify of all horrible > things i have been witnessing over the past 18 years. > > May Truth prevail > > nicole > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 Dear All, i have to clarify a misunderstanding on my part. Apparently Mr. Fogarty had chosen to not reply at all to the question of: " Do you deny or affirm that Shri Mataji said that children from Montreal, Canada would give evidence of Her Incarnation? " The fact is that he did not deny or affirm the question, but outrightly has refused, to date, to openly and honestly answer this question with a " yes " or a " no " answer. That still says it all to me, anyway, as i know he was there, and instrumental in moving the puja from USA to Canada. Thanks, xxxxxxxx for clarifying the same. What i am saying is that instead of giving such ambiguous detail which he did, which is not satisfactory to the heart, mind, and soul - why did he not have the courage to honestly answer the question with a " yes " or a " no " answer. What is there to hide? It is obviously a great mystery folks - a great secret in Sahaja Yoga, a hot potato too hot for political Sahaj ambitionists to handle. It doesn't matter anymore if the leaders evade a question, which requires an honest " yes " or " no " answer that would incriminate them against their colleagues or against their own conscience. What Shri Mataji said at Sydney Airport stands and is obvious now, for all the world to see: http://www.adishakti.org/ We have heard no further from Mr. Fogarty. Here then is the communication to me, to clarify that Mr. Fogarty did not reply at all to the direct question. Like i say, " WHY " did he choose to avoid the question completely? Why can't we pin these leaders down to give us straight answers to honest questions? After all, a true SY is someone who is not afraid of the truth. True SYS do not avoid the truth that is facing them - or do true SYS avoid the truth that is facing them. Maybe,they do. And it is a 'glitch' in the whole system. regards to all, violet Tue, Jul 29 2008 12:16 AM Hi Violet, Just a brief clarification re your input on the forum today re Michael and his reply to this email of April 1, 2008 enclosed below: " Should this recording of the " Special Personalities, children from Montreal " remain unaccounted for, perhaps then the simplest response to the question of this long-sought " Special Personalities " tape/talk would be your clear answer, as former Australian leader, to the question: " Do you deny or affirm that Shri Mataji said that children from Montreal, Canada would give evidence of Her Incarnation? " Michael has NEVER replied to this email at all. (Perhaps it should be resent ???, although I rather doubt anything further would come of it.] The following is his reply to a prior email in which he responds indirectly with " inferred, must have passed... " Michael, in your reply to me re the search of the March, 1994 recording at the Sydney airport of Shri Mataji speaking about " Special Personalities who would give evidence of Her Incarnation " , you indicated on " Sun, 27 Jan 2008, that " It would have to be inferred that the talk given at the airport in March of 1994 was when She arrived in Australia, and She must have passed through the airport without speaking to the yogis. Had She spoken, it would have been recorded; but there is no recording. " , " Violet " <violetubb wrote: > > Dear Nicole and all, > > Your message brings comfort at a time when there are many confusing, destructive forces between WCASY, Sir C.P. and Sahaja Yogis - who like sheep have listened to them instead of to Shri Mataji. Some of these yogis would have been with me at Sydney Airport in 1994, and heard Shri Mataji tell that evidence to confirm Her Incarnation would be forthcoming from Montreal, Canada. It's just that they have forgotten about it, that's all! It also so happens that someone who knows Mr. Michael Fogarty and has had a nice relationship with the family, has emailed this past leader who was also at Sydney Airport on that day - in fact was involved in helping to shift the puja from the USA to Montreal, Canada, from what i remember. With such a direct involvement, he surely could not have forgotten what happened. > > After emails were going to and fro a few times, there was no conclusive, definitive answer gleaned, except nice and newsy communication. i suggested that the person (whose name i cannot disclose) ask Mr. Fogarty: " Do you confirm or deny that Shri Mataji said that children from Montreal, Canada, would give evidence to confirm Her Incarnation? " . This should have brought a " yes " or a " no " answer. Mr. Fogarty emailed back, saying he could " neither confirm nor deny it " , which is to " literally sit on the fence " . You see, i know that Mr. Fogarty was there and i know that him being a moral person and all, that he could not deny something he knows to be true because it would hurt his Spirit. > > In a way though, i wish that he had denied it, because that would have been more satisfactory in a way. Then i could have felt that he did not remember and therefore was more or less absolved of the responsibility as regards WCASY and SYS treatment of Jagbir's children - just because they did give evidence to confirm Shri Mataji's Incarnation. But since he can " neither confirm or deny " , it makes it much worse in a way. Because it means that if he remembers it, then he is not doing anything about it. And that is like a 'sin of omission'. To me, to say one " neither confirms or denies " the truth, whichever way i look at it, it doesn't look honest and truthful to me. > > On a brighter note, the fact he could not deny it, means its true. i really don't care about the fact he " could not deny it " . i feel that is his own problem of conscience if he cannot deny it but does nothing about it. i find that a truly sad thing. But of course, i understand his position. If he confirms it, he is in trouble with WCASY. If he denies it, he is in trouble with his own soul. That's why the safest thing all around for Mr. Fogarty, was to say that he could " neither confirm or deny it " . With regards to Sahaja Yoga, it seems we have to choose between truth, or politics - and politics seems to be winning as far as the organisation is concerned. As an aside, Mr. Fogarty helped Sir C.P. launch a book Shri Mataji wanted, called: " Lal Bahadur Shastri - A Life of Truth in Politics " which i highly recommend. i now also know why Shri Mataji highly recommended this book to Sahaja Yogis also. We need more " truth in politics " in Sahaja Yoga: > > http://books.rediff.com/bookshop/bkproductdisplay.jsp?Lal-Bahdur-Shastri-:-A-Lif\ e-Of-Truth-In-Politics- & prrfnbr=60022086 & pvrfnbr=81287041 & multiple=true & frompg= > > On a lighter note, i enjoyed the thickening list of 1001. Realisation to a bicycle! So where exactly are the chakras located on the bicycle? How much time do they spend clearing the negativity from the bicycle? Does the bicycle then also give realisation to other bicycles? Just wondering. > > love from violet > > > > , " nicole_bougantouche " > <nicole_bougantouche@> wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > i joined the forum about one year ago, because after having spent 10 > > years in the collective, i took the decision to quit. At the time i > > got my realization, the collective meditations were a real > > opportunity to go deep into Shri Mataji's teachings, to share a real, > > spontaneous Love, and i must say that after some reunion, i have been > > blessed with some tremendous mystic experiences, a genuine feeling of > > oneness with the Divine. > > > > Unfortunately, as time went on, the meditations turned into some sort > > of endless lectures from a " sui-generis elite " and to sum it up, at > > the end of each meeting we were begged for money, money and more > > money. Then i started to feel my heart shutting like an oyster and > > started to feel guilty, because, of course according to them, i had a > > problem with the collective. > > > > This period led to a haemorragy of yogis. Most of them had left the > > movement, disappointed, cheated, humiliated, and a few of them became > > really tough " anti-Shri Matajis " . > > > > This opened on a period in which i have been witnessig all kinds of > > nonsensical, stupid, and devilish happenings. i started to ask Shri > > Mataji to show me the way of Truth. > > > > When i found the present forum i knew immediately that i was at the > > right place, with the right people. > > > > Yes, there is not even a single coma, hyphen of character that i > > could disapprove in the present forum. And for having posted a very > > tiny amount of material, i can measure the immense dedication, energy > > and Love Jagbir and Violet offer to the advancement of the Truth and > > I will spare no effort to try to match their quality and calibre. > > > > Because TRUTH is ABOVE religion, even the organised Sahaja Yoga > > religion. > > > > If PHds are not required to become a Realized soul, humility, > > intelligence and innocence are sine qua non conditions. > > > > So if you are bothered by the length of the material posted, feel > > free to get lost elsewhere, and join the " divine kindergarten " which > > Jagbir enumerated, with an unprecedent sobriety, a few of the 1008 > > nonsense which built over decades it's reputation. And let me add a > > few " star-products " such as, how to give realization to your bicycle, > > how to bother your peers, asking what should be the appropriate > > colour of your wall-paper, according to your vibrations, how to > > lecture on the heating effect of some food on the liver while > > drinking gallons of coca cola, how to manage to womanize but still > > chanting " Jay Ganesha " �. This only to make short as i have a half > > tonn of examples in store. > > > > So please do not hesitate to add me on your list of parias and be > > sure that the time will come when i will testify of all horrible > > things i have been witnessing over the past 18 years. > > > > May Truth prevail > > > > nicole > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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