Guest guest Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 Dear Jagbir, Violet and all.A friend of mine was present at the Guru puja and reported some of her impressions : The atmosphere was extremely grave, serious. The audience was completely stunned by what they heard.At the end of Shri Mataji's speech, nobody dared to sing or dance like they usually do. At some point, after all the presents were given, the curtain was drawn on the stage, the microphone was turned off but the cameras were still rollingand the audience of yogis could see that all the "leaders" present had some kind of talk which turned out as an argument with Shri Mataji.My friend, who was right in front of the stage, managed to grab some bits of the discussion between the "Pharisees", as she calls them and Shri Mataji :they seemed to be upset that She didn't mention once the World Council as Her successor; several times, my friend heard Her saying "No, no, no !"If you have a look at these photos, you can see that She looks quite upset towards the end.168 photos du GURU PUJA: http://www.shrimataji.net/photos/thumbnails.php?album=283Apparently, a lot of yogis were upset that the "leaderskidnapped" Shri Mataji in such a way.So if you read the following exchanges of messages between Arneau (the Swiss leader) and Rajiv Kular (Indian), Arneau is obviously lying.He considers himself "designated" by Shri Mataji and he wants to constitute yet a new committee with members of the WCASY !! You can read that Rajiv tries to"calm him down" a little and that Duilio (an Italian) rejects Arneau's decision and reminds him that the WCASY has "gone astray..."So let's hope the yogis are finally going to wake up and get rid of these demons who have infected them.Since She has started to "speak again", Shri Mataji has emphasized Her messages of Resurrection and Emancipation.May She be heard at long last ! Much LoveIsabelle > Friday, July 25, 2008, 5:40 PM> Re: [CountryLeaders] Message after the Guru pooja> 2008 Friday, July> 25, 2008 11:17 AM> "Duilio Cartocci"> To: "'WORLD COUNCIL'" > Cc: "'Country Leaders'">> Dear Arneau,>> dear Members of the World Council and dear Country Leaders,>>> following your letter, I would like to bring some> considerations to your> attention.>>>> With this I don't intend to hurt anyone and I apologize> if for any reason it> can appear offending; it is the result of a general> impression I recollect> from our and others collectivities. I don't have any> position to defend, nor> of course I wish any "position": actually what I> would like most is to loose> any identification. I don't assert any truth, but, as I> said, I would like> to bring some observations to your attention:>>>> 1) Shri Mataji said "we need to constitute a> central committee to take> decision". Are you sure She intended that you have to> vote ten members> within the World Council? That means: are you the ones that> have the right> to vote, or just :"WE need to constitute…"?> Are you sure that the member of> this committee are to be chosen within the members of the> World Council?>> 2) Personally I feel that you don't have to vote> the committee, nor> the members of this are to be chosen among the members of> the World Council.>> 3) I remember that when She said that a committee was> needed, one of> the members remembered Her that the World Council was> there; than She> repeated that a committee was needed, and again you> remembered the existence> of the World Council; all this for three or four times.> What does this mean?>> 4) Before acting in any direction, it would be perhaps> better to wait> and absorb more and more Her revolutionary talk. For> example, She said that> any yogi is free to go and spread sahaja yoga, that there> is no hierarchy,> and if really there is one, this is based on the number of> realizations we> are giving. She again stressed the importance of feeling> the vibrations in> both the hands; how many times the World Council has taken> its decisions> following the vibrations?>> 5) It seems to us that what is most needed is a return> back to> simplicity, to the base of Sahaja Yoga, where the most> important thing is to> give the realization and to really love each others.>> 6) You said that this steering group would also have> the mandate of> communication to the sangha. What kind of communication?> Sometime it can> appear that you discuss a lot about communication, but then> very few of you,> or sometime no one, come really to the collectivity, eating> the food that> every yogi is eating in the camp in Albera, or spending> some time just> talking to the yogi while working in the kitchen, or> walking around in the> camp. At the eyes of the "normal" yogis seems> that if you have to talk, you> just talk among yourselves, without listening what are the> real needs or> feelings of the yogis.>> 7) Just as an example, how many of you have eaten the> food of the camp?> How many of you have slept in the tent in Albera? How much> time have you> spent during the last pujas in Cabella just listening to> the yogi of other> nations in an informal way?>> 8) It seems that sometime there is a division between> the World Council> and the real life of spontaneity of the base of Sahaja> Yoga. Instead of> breaking this division, it seems you are expanding it. The> distance that is> felt between the World Council and the base of the sahaja> yogis, is like the> same we are feeling between our politics in Italy and the> population: they> think they represent us, but no one feels he is> represented.>> 9) The impression that the "normal" yogi> gets sometime is that you all> sit for hours discussing of great systems, but you are> missing of the> simplicity and spontaneity of the new sahaja yogis.>> 10) I suggest that there should be a rotation of the> members in the future> committee and in the World Council, if this has still to> exist. The real> risk of sticking in a position is that human being get> often an> identification with that, thinking, of course in a very> subtle way, that> somehow he is especial, that he is an intermediate between> divinity and the> mass of the yogi: we saw it too many times happening in the> history of> mankind.>> 11) I take the liberty to remember you the letter that> Shri Mataji has sent> to the World Council the last year: perhaps not so many> things are changed> since then.>>>> I again apologize if I have hurt anyone sensibility, but I> hope that all> this can help in a serene and constructive way. I feel that> till now we have> used in our behaviors and decisions the normal human> paradigms, the same old> paradigms that human being have used in all his history;> perhaps, what Shri> Mataji wants from us is that we change them. May be it will> not be easy, but> we have to try.>> Her last talk is so much revolutionary that we can't> respond in a normal,> classical way. She expects so much from us, not old, used> and broken> paradigms.>>>> Much, much love>> duilio>> italy>> -> ** Council Sahaja Yoga> Swiss<http://de.mc510.mail./mc/compose?to=council> *To:* 'WORLD> COUNCIL'<http://de.mc510.mail./mc/compose?to=theworldcouncil> *Cc:* 'Country> Leaders'<http://de.mc510.mail./mc/compose?to=countryleaders> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2008 10:42 PM> *Subject:* [sPAM] [CountryLeaders] Message after the Guru> pooja 2008>>>> Dear Members of the World Council for the Advancement of> Sahaja Yoga,>> Dear Country leaders,>>>> At the end of an extraordinary talk at Guru pooja 2008,> which may conclude,> in certain aspects, an unprecedented period of Her Divine> activity, Shri> Mataji provided guidance to a small group around her> throne, when the> curtain was down.>>>> She said and I quote Her *"**we need to constitute a> central committee to> take decisions".*>>>> In response to questions, She confirmed that this steering> group would also> have a mandate of communication to the sangha.>> In the light of the present structure, we may propose to> constitute an> executive committee within the WCASY no larger than 10> members. I seek, from> each of you, your views on who you think should become a> member of such an> inspired, effective and efficient central committee, in> order for me to take> action on your behalf, given the fact that I would transmit> this auspicious> proposal to Shri Mataji for Her Divine Approval. Indeed,> She invited us to> take up responsibilities with strength and confidence. It> is therefore my> belief that this initiative reflects the desire of Shri> Mataji expressed> during the Guru pooja 2008.>>>> I would be grateful to have your response before the> Krishna pooja 2008,> each one of you selecting 10 members out of the list of the> present members> of the WCASY. All the lists forwarded by each member of the> WCASY would be> sent to Alan Pereira and myself. I take the opportunity of> this message to> seek Her Divine Blessings and Her Everlasting Protection.>>>> *I copy this message to all national leaders for> **information*.>>>> With love and respect>> Arneau>>>> [CountryLeaders] Re: [The World Council of Sahaja Yoga]> Message after the> Guru pooja 2008 Friday, July 25, 2008 4:46 PM> "rajiv kumar"> council, "WORLD COUNCIL"> Cc: "Country Leaders">> My dear Arneau and All Members of the Council,> Jai Shri Mataji. I write to express my great joy and a> sense of being so> much blessed for having been able to attend the Guru Puja.> For me this has> been really special because as I had written to all of you> it did not at one> stage (until four days before I actually left for Milan)> that it will be> possible for me go. So the fact that I made it at all and> then was witness> to this most memorable and historical event has been a> great blessing. I bow> my head in complete gratitude to Her and thank Her for> making this possible.>>> And thank you Phillip for urging me to come to Cabella> when we met at your> lovely home even for a few hours in Berlin earlier in July.>> I think we in the Council would do well to listen to Her> speech over and> over again and draw the necessary inspiration and> conclusions from it> individually and then hopefully collectively. And until we> can meet together> again, we should simply follow Her advice to introspect,> see where our> catches are, get rid of them to take on the> responsibilities of a Guru as> She has asked us to do and give realizations because> without that as She> said we will not be worthy of being a Guru in any case. I> think the numbers> mentioned were between 300 to 3000!!>> And so my dear brother Aruneau, my own view is that there> is just no hurry> to start 'electing' the 11 members. Did She ask us> to send Her the> nominations? If She wanted a committee She would have> included that in Her> talk too. So let us instead work to make WACSY a collective> body, a living> and working organism before we start making committees. She> will appoint the> 11 when and if She so desires.>> And towards that end I suggest that we meet in September or> OCtober either> in England or in Mumbai. Hopefully a larger number of us> will be able to> join this time and spend time together. And yes can we> cannot collect some> funds from amongst ourselves to try and subsidise those of> us who find it> difficult to pay for the air fares? Just a thought. I think> Rajesh's offer> to host the get together stands and I can work with him as> we did talk about> that. So let us have everybody's views on this> With love and respects to all> Rajiv>> > Council Sahaja Yoga Swiss> <council> WORLD COUNCIL> Cc: Country Leaders > Wednesday, 23 July, 2008 2:12:24 AM> [The World Council of Sahaja Yoga] Message after> the Guru pooja> 2008>> Dear Members of the World Council for the Advancement of> Sahaja Yoga,>> Dear Country leaders,>>>> At the end of an extraordinary talk at Guru pooja 2008,> which may conclude,> in certain aspects, an unprecedented period of Her Divine> activity, Shri> Mataji provided guidance to a small group around her> throne, when the> curtain was down.>>>> She said and I quote Her *"**we need to constitute a> central committee to> take decisions".*>>>> In response to questions, She confirmed that this steering> group would also> have a mandate of communication to the sangha.>> In the light of the present structure, we may propose to> constitute an> executive committee within the WCASY no larger than 10> members. I seek, from> each of you, your views on who you think should become a> member of such an> inspired, effective and efficient central committee, in> order for me to take> action on your behalf, given the fact that I would transmit> this auspicious> proposal to Shri Mataji for Her Divine Approval. Indeed,> She invited us to> take up responsibilities with strength and confidence. It> is therefore my> belief that this initiative reflects the desire of Shri> Mataji expressed> during the Guru pooja 2008.>>>> I would be grateful to have your response before the> Krishna pooja 2008,> each one of you selecting 10 members out of the list of the> present members> of the WCASY. All the lists forwarded by each member of the> WCASY would be> sent to Alan Pereira and myself. I take the opportunity of> this message to> seek Her Divine Blessings and Her Everlasting Protection.>>>> *I copy this message to all national leaders for> **information*.>>>> With love and respect>> Arneau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Isabelle, The "Pharasees" kidnapped Shri Mataji years ago. Well in their minds they have. They've been trying. It's about time the rank and file realized that. It's way beyond time that the "Pharasees" realized that they can not contain Shri Mataji. They may be in her physical presence but I wonder how many of them are in her spiritual presence - really. You don't explain why the atmosphere was "grave". Did you mean because the "leaders" were so omnipresent on the stage? Or was it what Shri Mataji had to say during her puja speach? All the best, Suzy --- On Tue, 7/29/08, Isabelle Morgan <isabelle.morgan wrote: Isabelle Morgan <isabelle.morgan After the Guru Puja... Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 5:34 PM Dear Jagbir, Violet and all. A friend of mine was present at the Guru puja and reported some of her impressions : The atmosphere was extremely grave, serious. The audience was completely stunned by what they heard. At the end of Shri Mataji's speech, nobody dared to sing or dance like they usually do. At some point, after all the presents were given, the curtain was drawn on the stage, the microphone was turned off but the cameras were still rolling and the audience of yogis could see that all the "leaders" present had some kind of talk which turned out as an argument with Shri Mataji. My friend, who was right in front of the stage, managed to grab some bits of the discussion between the "Pharisees", as she calls them and Shri Mataji : they seemed to be upset that She didn't mention once the World Council as Her successor; several times, my friend heard Her saying "No, no, no !" If you have a look at these photos, you can see that She looks quite upset towards the end. 168 photos du GURU PUJA: http://www.shrimata ji.net/photos/ thumbnails. php?album= 283 Apparently, a lot of yogis were upset that the "leaderskidnapped" Shri Mataji in such a way. So if you read the following exchanges of messages between Arneau (the Swiss leader) and Rajiv Kular (Indian), Arneau is obviously lying. He considers himself "designated" by Shri Mataji and he wants to constitute yet a new committee with members of the WCASY !! You can read that Rajiv tries to "calm him down" a little and that Duilio (an Italian) rejects Arneau's decision and reminds him that the WCASY has "gone astray..." So let's hope the yogis are finally going to wake up and get rid of these demons who have infected them. Since She has started to "speak again", Shri Mataji has emphasized Her messages of Resurrection and Emancipation. May She be heard at long last ! Much Love Isabelle > Friday, July 25, 2008, 5:40 PM > Re: [CountryLeaders] Message after the Guru pooja > 2008 Friday, July > 25, 2008 11:17 AM > "Duilio Cartocci" > "'WORLD COUNCIL'" > Cc: "'Country Leaders'" > > Dear Arneau, > > dear Members of the World Council and dear Country Leaders, > > > following your letter, I would like to bring some > considerations to your > attention. > > > > With this I don't intend to hurt anyone and I apologize > if for any reason it > can appear offending; it is the result of a general > impression I recollect > from our and others collectivities. I don't have any > position to defend, nor > of course I wish any "position": actually what I > would like most is to loose > any identification. I don't assert any truth, but, as I > said, I would like > to bring some observations to your attention: > > > > 1) Shri Mataji said "we need to constitute a > central committee to take > decision". Are you sure She intended that you have to > vote ten members > within the World Council? That means: are you the ones that > have the right > to vote, or just :"WE need to constitute…"? > Are you sure that the member of > this committee are to be chosen within the members of the > World Council? > > 2) Personally I feel that you don't have to vote > the committee, nor > the members of this are to be chosen among the members of > the World Council. > > 3) I remember that when She said that a committee was > needed, one of > the members remembered Her that the World Council was > there; than She > repeated that a committee was needed, and again you > remembered the existence > of the World Council; all this for three or four times. > What does this mean? > > 4) Before acting in any direction, it would be perhaps > better to wait > and absorb more and more Her revolutionary talk. For > example, She said that > any yogi is free to go and spread sahaja yoga, that there > is no hierarchy, > and if really there is one, this is based on the number of > realizations we > are giving. She again stressed the importance of feeling > the vibrations in > both the hands; how many times the World Council has taken > its decisions > following the vibrations? > > 5) It seems to us that what is most needed is a return > back to > simplicity, to the base of Sahaja Yoga, where the most > important thing is to > give the realization and to really love each others. > > 6) You said that this steering group would also have > the mandate of > communication to the sangha. What kind of communication? > Sometime it can > appear that you discuss a lot about communication, but then > very few of you, > or sometime no one, come really to the collectivity, eating > the food that > every yogi is eating in the camp in Albera, or spending > some time just > talking to the yogi while working in the kitchen, or > walking around in the > camp. At the eyes of the "normal" yogis seems > that if you have to talk, you > just talk among yourselves, without listening what are the > real needs or > feelings of the yogis. > > 7) Just as an example, how many of you have eaten the > food of the camp? > How many of you have slept in the tent in Albera? How much > time have you > spent during the last pujas in Cabella just listening to > the yogi of other > nations in an informal way? > > 8) It seems that sometime there is a division between > the World Council > and the real life of spontaneity of the base of Sahaja > Yoga. Instead of > breaking this division, it seems you are expanding it. The > distance that is > felt between the World Council and the base of the sahaja > yogis, is like the > same we are feeling between our politics in Italy and the > population: they > think they represent us, but no one feels he is > represented. > > 9) The impression that the "normal" yogi > gets sometime is that you all > sit for hours discussing of great systems, but you are > missing of the > simplicity and spontaneity of the new sahaja yogis. > > 10) I suggest that there should be a rotation of the > members in the future > committee and in the World Council, if this has still to > exist. The real > risk of sticking in a position is that human being get > often an > identification with that, thinking, of course in a very > subtle way, that > somehow he is especial, that he is an intermediate between > divinity and the > mass of the yogi: we saw it too many times happening in the > history of > mankind. > > 11) I take the liberty to remember you the letter that > Shri Mataji has sent > to the World Council the last year: perhaps not so many > things are changed > since then. > > > > I again apologize if I have hurt anyone sensibility, but I > hope that all > this can help in a serene and constructive way. I feel that > till now we have > used in our behaviors and decisions the normal human > paradigms, the same old > paradigms that human being have used in all his history; > perhaps, what Shri > Mataji wants from us is that we change them. May be it will > not be easy, but > we have to try. > > Her last talk is so much revolutionary that we can't > respond in a normal, > classical way. She expects so much from us, not old, used > and broken > paradigms. > > > > Much, much love > > duilio > > italy > > - > ** Council Sahaja Yoga > Swiss<http://de.mc510. mail.. com/mc/compose? to=council@ sahajayoga. ch> > *To:* 'WORLD > COUNCIL'<http://de.mc510. mail.. com/mc/compose? to=theworldcounc il (AT) sahajayoga (DOT) org> > *Cc:* 'Country > Leaders'<http://de.mc510. mail.. com/mc/compose? to=countryleader s (AT) sahajayoga (DOT) org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2008 10:42 PM > *Subject:* [sPAM] [CountryLeaders] Message after the Guru > pooja 2008 > > > > Dear Members of the World Council for the Advancement of > Sahaja Yoga, > > Dear Country leaders, > > > > At the end of an extraordinary talk at Guru pooja 2008, > which may conclude, > in certain aspects, an unprecedented period of Her Divine > activity, Shri > Mataji provided guidance to a small group around her > throne, when the > curtain was down. > > > > She said and I quote Her *"**we need to constitute a > central committee to > take decisions".* > > > > In response to questions, She confirmed that this steering > group would also > have a mandate of communication to the sangha. > > In the light of the present structure, we may propose to > constitute an > executive committee within the WCASY no larger than 10 > members. I seek, from > each of you, your views on who you think should become a > member of such an > inspired, effective and efficient central committee, in > order for me to take > action on your behalf, given the fact that I would transmit > this auspicious > proposal to Shri Mataji for Her Divine Approval. Indeed, > She invited us to > take up responsibilities with strength and confidence. It > is therefore my > belief that this initiative reflects the desire of Shri > Mataji expressed > during the Guru pooja 2008. > > > > I would be grateful to have your response before the > Krishna pooja 2008, > each one of you selecting 10 members out of the list of the > present members > of the WCASY. All the lists forwarded by each member of the > WCASY would be > sent to Alan Pereira and myself. I take the opportunity of > this message to > seek Her Divine Blessings and Her Everlasting Protection. > > > > *I copy this message to all national leaders for > **information* . > > > > With love and respect > > Arneau > > > > [CountryLeaders] Re: [The World Council of Sahaja Yoga] > Message after the > Guru pooja 2008 Friday, July 25, 2008 4:46 PM > "rajiv kumar" > council (AT) sahajayoga (DOT) ch, "WORLD COUNCIL" > Cc: "Country Leaders" > > My dear Arneau and All Members of the Council, > Jai Shri Mataji. I write to express my great joy and a > sense of being so > much blessed for having been able to attend the Guru Puja. > For me this has > been really special because as I had written to all of you > it did not at one > stage (until four days before I actually left for Milan) > that it will be > possible for me go. So the fact that I made it at all and > then was witness > to this most memorable and historical event has been a > great blessing. I bow > my head in complete gratitude to Her and thank Her for > making this possible. > > > And thank you Phillip for urging me to come to Cabella > when we met at your > lovely home even for a few hours in Berlin earlier in July. > > I think we in the Council would do well to listen to Her > speech over and > over again and draw the necessary inspiration and > conclusions from it > individually and then hopefully collectively. And until we > can meet together > again, we should simply follow Her advice to introspect, > see where our > catches are, get rid of them to take on the > responsibilities of a Guru as > She has asked us to do and give realizations because > without that as She > said we will not be worthy of being a Guru in any case. I > think the numbers > mentioned were between 300 to 3000!! > > And so my dear brother Aruneau, my own view is that there > is just no hurry > to start 'electing' the 11 members. Did She ask us > to send Her the > nominations? If She wanted a committee She would have > included that in Her > talk too. So let us instead work to make WACSY a collective > body, a living > and working organism before we start making committees. She > will appoint the > 11 when and if She so desires. > > And towards that end I suggest that we meet in September or > OCtober either > in England or in Mumbai. Hopefully a larger number of us > will be able to > join this time and spend time together. And yes can we > cannot collect some > funds from amongst ourselves to try and subsidise those of > us who find it > difficult to pay for the air fares? Just a thought. I think > Rajesh's offer > to host the get together stands and I can work with him as > we did talk about > that. So let us have everybody's views on this > With love and respects to all > Rajiv > > > Council Sahaja Yoga Swiss > <council (AT) sahajayoga (DOT) ch> > WORLD COUNCIL > Cc: Country Leaders > Wednesday, 23 July, 2008 2:12:24 AM > [The World Council of Sahaja Yoga] Message after > the Guru pooja > 2008 > > Dear Members of the World Council for the Advancement of > Sahaja Yoga, > > Dear Country leaders, > > > > At the end of an extraordinary talk at Guru pooja 2008, > which may conclude, > in certain aspects, an unprecedented period of Her Divine > activity, Shri > Mataji provided guidance to a small group around her > throne, when the > curtain was down. > > > > She said and I quote Her *"**we need to constitute a > central committee to > take decisions".* > > > > In response to questions, She confirmed that this steering > group would also > have a mandate of communication to the sangha. > > In the light of the present structure, we may propose to > constitute an > executive committee within the WCASY no larger than 10 > members. I seek, from > each of you, your views on who you think should become a > member of such an > inspired, effective and efficient central committee, in > order for me to take > action on your behalf, given the fact that I would transmit > this auspicious > proposal to Shri Mataji for Her Divine Approval. Indeed, > She invited us to > take up responsibilities with strength and confidence. It > is therefore my > belief that this initiative reflects the desire of Shri > Mataji expressed > during the Guru pooja 2008. > > > > I would be grateful to have your response before the > Krishna pooja 2008, > each one of you selecting 10 members out of the list of the > present members > of the WCASY. All the lists forwarded by each member of the > WCASY would be > sent to Alan Pereira and myself. I take the opportunity of > this message to > seek Her Divine Blessings and Her Everlasting Protection. > > > > *I copy this message to all national leaders for > **information* . > > > > With love and respect > > Arneau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Dear Isabelle and all, Sahaja Yogis are finally having to face the issues that are confronting them. It's a welcome relief all around. Thank you so much for your correspondence, Isabelle. It is greatly appreciated. Much Love violet , Isabelle Morgan <isabelle.morgan wrote: > > > Dear Jagbir, Violet and all. > > A friend of mine was present at the Guru puja and reported some of > her impressions : > > The atmosphere was extremely grave, serious. The audience was > completely stunned by what they heard. > At the end of Shri Mataji's speech, nobody dared to sing or dance > like they usually do. > At some point, after all the presents were given, the curtain was > drawn on the stage, the microphone was turned off but the cameras > were still rolling > and the audience of yogis could see that all the " leaders " present > had some kind of talk which turned out as an argument with Shri Mataji. > My friend, who was right in front of the stage, managed to grab some > bits of the discussion between the " Pharisees " , as she calls them and > Shri Mataji : > they seemed to be upset that She didn't mention once the World > Council as Her successor; several times, my friend heard Her saying > " No, no, no ! " > If you have a look at these photos, you can see that She looks quite > upset towards the end. > > 168 photos du GURU PUJA: > http://www.shrimataji.net/photos/thumbnails.php?album=283 > > Apparently, a lot of yogis were upset that the " leaders " " kidnapped " > Shri Mataji in such a way. > So if you read the following exchanges of messages between Arneau > (the Swiss leader) and Rajiv Kular (Indian), Arneau is obviously lying. > He considers himself " designated " by Shri Mataji and he wants to > constitute yet a new committee with members of the WCASY !! You can > read that Rajiv tries to > " calm him down " a little and that Duilio (an Italian) rejects > Arneau's decision and reminds him that the WCASY has " gone astray... " > > So let's hope the yogis are finally going to wake up and get rid of > these demons who have infected them. > > Since She has started to " speak again " , Shri Mataji has emphasized > Her messages of Resurrection and Emancipation. > May She be heard at long last ! > > Much Love > > Isabelle > > > > Friday, July 25, 2008, 5:40 PM > > Re: [CountryLeaders] Message after the Guru pooja > > 2008 Friday, July > > 25, 2008 11:17 AM > > " Duilio Cartocci " > > " 'WORLD COUNCIL' " > > Cc: " 'Country Leaders' " > > > > Dear Arneau, > > > > dear Members of the World Council and dear Country Leaders, > > > > > > following your letter, I would like to bring some > > considerations to your > > attention. > > > > > > > > With this I don't intend to hurt anyone and I apologize > > if for any reason it > > can appear offending; it is the result of a general > > impression I recollect > > from our and others collectivities. I don't have any > > position to defend, nor > > of course I wish any " position " : actually what I > > would like most is to loose > > any identification. I don't assert any truth, but, as I > > said, I would like > > to bring some observations to your attention: > > > > > > > > 1) Shri Mataji said " we need to constitute a > > central committee to take > > decision " . Are you sure She intended that you have to > > vote ten members > > within the World Council? That means: are you the ones that > > have the right > > to vote, or just : " WE need to constitute… " ? > > Are you sure that the member of > > this committee are to be chosen within the members of the > > World Council? > > > > 2) Personally I feel that you don't have to vote > > the committee, nor > > the members of this are to be chosen among the members of > > the World Council. > > > > 3) I remember that when She said that a committee was > > needed, one of > > the members remembered Her that the World Council was > > there; than She > > repeated that a committee was needed, and again you > > remembered the existence > > of the World Council; all this for three or four times. > > What does this mean? > > > > 4) Before acting in any direction, it would be perhaps > > better to wait > > and absorb more and more Her revolutionary talk. For > > example, She said that > > any yogi is free to go and spread sahaja yoga, that there > > is no hierarchy, > > and if really there is one, this is based on the number of > > realizations we > > are giving. She again stressed the importance of feeling > > the vibrations in > > both the hands; how many times the World Council has taken > > its decisions > > following the vibrations? > > > > 5) It seems to us that what is most needed is a return > > back to > > simplicity, to the base of Sahaja Yoga, where the most > > important thing is to > > give the realization and to really love each others. > > > > 6) You said that this steering group would also have > > the mandate of > > communication to the sangha. What kind of communication? > > Sometime it can > > appear that you discuss a lot about communication, but then > > very few of you, > > or sometime no one, come really to the collectivity, eating > > the food that > > every yogi is eating in the camp in Albera, or spending > > some time just > > talking to the yogi while working in the kitchen, or > > walking around in the > > camp. At the eyes of the " normal " yogis seems > > that if you have to talk, you > > just talk among yourselves, without listening what are the > > real needs or > > feelings of the yogis. > > > > 7) Just as an example, how many of you have eaten the > > food of the camp? > > How many of you have slept in the tent in Albera? How much > > time have you > > spent during the last pujas in Cabella just listening to > > the yogi of other > > nations in an informal way? > > > > 8) It seems that sometime there is a division between > > the World Council > > and the real life of spontaneity of the base of Sahaja > > Yoga. Instead of > > breaking this division, it seems you are expanding it. The > > distance that is > > felt between the World Council and the base of the sahaja > > yogis, is like the > > same we are feeling between our politics in Italy and the > > population: they > > think they represent us, but no one feels he is > > represented. > > > > 9) The impression that the " normal " yogi > > gets sometime is that you all > > sit for hours discussing of great systems, but you are > > missing of the > > simplicity and spontaneity of the new sahaja yogis. > > > > 10) I suggest that there should be a rotation of the > > members in the future > > committee and in the World Council, if this has still to > > exist. The real > > risk of sticking in a position is that human being get > > often an > > identification with that, thinking, of course in a very > > subtle way, that > > somehow he is especial, that he is an intermediate between > > divinity and the > > mass of the yogi: we saw it too many times happening in the > > history of > > mankind. > > > > 11) I take the liberty to remember you the letter that > > Shri Mataji has sent > > to the World Council the last year: perhaps not so many > > things are changed > > since then. > > > > > > > > I again apologize if I have hurt anyone sensibility, but I > > hope that all > > this can help in a serene and constructive way. I feel that > > till now we have > > used in our behaviors and decisions the normal human > > paradigms, the same old > > paradigms that human being have used in all his history; > > perhaps, what Shri > > Mataji wants from us is that we change them. May be it will > > not be easy, but > > we have to try. > > > > Her last talk is so much revolutionary that we can't > > respond in a normal, > > classical way. She expects so much from us, not old, used > > and broken > > paradigms. > > > > > > > > Much, much love > > > > duilio > > > > italy > > > > - > > ** Council Sahaja Yoga > > Swiss<http://de.mc510.mail./mc/compose? > to=council > > *To:* 'WORLD > > COUNCIL'<http://de.mc510.mail./mc/compose? > to=theworldcouncil > > *Cc:* 'Country > > Leaders'<http://de.mc510.mail./mc/compose? > to=countryleaders > > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 22, 2008 10:42 PM > > *Subject:* [sPAM] [CountryLeaders] Message after the Guru > > pooja 2008 > > > > > > > > Dear Members of the World Council for the Advancement of > > Sahaja Yoga, > > > > Dear Country leaders, > > > > > > > > At the end of an extraordinary talk at Guru pooja 2008, > > which may conclude, > > in certain aspects, an unprecedented period of Her Divine > > activity, Shri > > Mataji provided guidance to a small group around her > > throne, when the > > curtain was down. > > > > > > > > She said and I quote Her * " **we need to constitute a > > central committee to > > take decisions " .* > > > > > > > > In response to questions, She confirmed that this steering > > group would also > > have a mandate of communication to the sangha. > > > > In the light of the present structure, we may propose to > > constitute an > > executive committee within the WCASY no larger than 10 > > members. I seek, from > > each of you, your views on who you think should become a > > member of such an > > inspired, effective and efficient central committee, in > > order for me to take > > action on your behalf, given the fact that I would transmit > > this auspicious > > proposal to Shri Mataji for Her Divine Approval. Indeed, > > She invited us to > > take up responsibilities with strength and confidence. It > > is therefore my > > belief that this initiative reflects the desire of Shri > > Mataji expressed > > during the Guru pooja 2008. > > > > > > > > I would be grateful to have your response before the > > Krishna pooja 2008, > > each one of you selecting 10 members out of the list of the > > present members > > of the WCASY. All the lists forwarded by each member of the > > WCASY would be > > sent to Alan Pereira and myself. I take the opportunity of > > this message to > > seek Her Divine Blessings and Her Everlasting Protection. > > > > > > > > *I copy this message to all national leaders for > > **information*. > > > > > > > > With love and respect > > > > Arneau > > > > > > > > [CountryLeaders] Re: [The World Council of Sahaja Yoga] > > Message after the > > Guru pooja 2008 Friday, July 25, 2008 4:46 PM > > " rajiv kumar " > > council, " WORLD COUNCIL " > > Cc: " Country Leaders " > > > > My dear Arneau and All Members of the Council, > > Jai Shri Mataji. I write to express my great joy and a > > sense of being so > > much blessed for having been able to attend the Guru Puja. > > For me this has > > been really special because as I had written to all of you > > it did not at one > > stage (until four days before I actually left for Milan) > > that it will be > > possible for me go. So the fact that I made it at all and > > then was witness > > to this most memorable and historical event has been a > > great blessing. I bow > > my head in complete gratitude to Her and thank Her for > > making this possible. > > > > > > And thank you Phillip for urging me to come to Cabella > > when we met at your > > lovely home even for a few hours in Berlin earlier in July. > > > > I think we in the Council would do well to listen to Her > > speech over and > > over again and draw the necessary inspiration and > > conclusions from it > > individually and then hopefully collectively. And until we > > can meet together > > again, we should simply follow Her advice to introspect, > > see where our > > catches are, get rid of them to take on the > > responsibilities of a Guru as > > She has asked us to do and give realizations because > > without that as She > > said we will not be worthy of being a Guru in any case. I > > think the numbers > > mentioned were between 300 to 3000!! > > > > And so my dear brother Aruneau, my own view is that there > > is just no hurry > > to start 'electing' the 11 members. Did She ask us > > to send Her the > > nominations? If She wanted a committee She would have > > included that in Her > > talk too. So let us instead work to make WACSY a collective > > body, a living > > and working organism before we start making committees. She > > will appoint the > > 11 when and if She so desires. > > > > And towards that end I suggest that we meet in September or > > OCtober either > > in England or in Mumbai. Hopefully a larger number of us > > will be able to > > join this time and spend time together. And yes can we > > cannot collect some > > funds from amongst ourselves to try and subsidise those of > > us who find it > > difficult to pay for the air fares? Just a thought. I think > > Rajesh's offer > > to host the get together stands and I can work with him as > > we did talk about > > that. So let us have everybody's views on this > > With love and respects to all > > Rajiv > > > > > > Council Sahaja Yoga Swiss > > <council > > WORLD COUNCIL > > Cc: Country Leaders > > Wednesday, 23 July, 2008 2:12:24 AM > > [The World Council of Sahaja Yoga] Message after > > the Guru pooja > > 2008 > > > > Dear Members of the World Council for the Advancement of > > Sahaja Yoga, > > > > Dear Country leaders, > > > > > > > > At the end of an extraordinary talk at Guru pooja 2008, > > which may conclude, > > in certain aspects, an unprecedented period of Her Divine > > activity, Shri > > Mataji provided guidance to a small group around her > > throne, when the > > curtain was down. > > > > > > > > She said and I quote Her * " **we need to constitute a > > central committee to > > take decisions " .* > > > > > > > > In response to questions, She confirmed that this steering > > group would also > > have a mandate of communication to the sangha. > > > > In the light of the present structure, we may propose to > > constitute an > > executive committee within the WCASY no larger than 10 > > members. I seek, from > > each of you, your views on who you think should become a > > member of such an > > inspired, effective and efficient central committee, in > > order for me to take > > action on your behalf, given the fact that I would transmit > > this auspicious > > proposal to Shri Mataji for Her Divine Approval. Indeed, > > She invited us to > > take up responsibilities with strength and confidence. It > > is therefore my > > belief that this initiative reflects the desire of Shri > > Mataji expressed > > during the Guru pooja 2008. > > > > > > > > I would be grateful to have your response before the > > Krishna pooja 2008, > > each one of you selecting 10 members out of the list of the > > present members > > of the WCASY. All the lists forwarded by each member of the > > WCASY would be > > sent to Alan Pereira and myself. I take the opportunity of > > this message to > > seek Her Divine Blessings and Her Everlasting Protection. > > > > > > > > *I copy this message to all national leaders for > > **information*. > > > > > > > > With love and respect > > > > Arneau > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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