Shri Mataji: You can use my photograph, but the realization should not be f

[Guest guest]

, " michalis_9 "

<michalis_9 wrote:

>

> Dear Jagbir,

>

> I'm in no position to declare anyone (let alone myself) as

> Self-Realized or not. All i'm interested in is constructive dialogue

> on spiritual matters, not to judge anyone or criticize out of the

> blue, as was asked by our Mother in Her latest speech. Therefore i

> find your comments on my (or anyone's for that matter) maturity and

> Self-Realization inappropriate as well as anti-Sahaj.

 

Dear Michalis,

 

You say that " I'm in no position to declare anyone (let alone myself) as

Self-Realised. If you are suggesting that Jagbir has said the wrong thing - then

you are in the wrong, yourself. Aside from that, a person that is Self-Realised

knows it without a doubt, because of their absolute knowledge/gnosis within.

They have the oneness instead of the duality - which is why they can be so

confident as to the truth of a matter. In regards to your statement that: " All

i'm interested in is constructive dialogue on spiritual matters " ------- i know

you're going to consider me unloving, unSahaj and anti-Sahaj for telling you

this, but until you reduce your ego a wee teensy bit, you won't be able to have

truly constructive dialogue on spiritual matters - not even with your own Spirit

within.

 

You say you are not interested in judging and criticising anyone, yet you judge

and criticize Jagbir. You also expect him to accept your opinion when he knew it

was not a correct opinion based on the absolute knowledge within. He humbly

explained that in the light of his Spirit. True humility is to be strong, not a

pansy, not a washover, but to be able to stand up and say the truth - regardless

of others opinions surrounding the truth, which [opinions] are not the same as

the truth itself. When Shri Mataji is talking about not criticizing someone, She

is talking about destructive criticism that tears a person down. She is not

talking about constructive criticism. Shri Mataji gave constructive criticism

all the time and that' show we learned so much from Her. What Jagbir told you

was constructive criticism, for your spiritual benevolence, but maybe you don't

realise that.

 

 

> Given the fact that you mostly base your statements on Shri Mataji's

> own quotes, it is natural that you are mostly correct. Nevertheless

> your way of expressing your views and the lack of sweetness and

> humility in your words indicate a person knowledgable, yet naive in

> understanding.

 

" Given the fact that you [Jagbir] mostly base your statements on Shri Mataji's

own quotes " ------------- is not the reason why " you are mostly correct " . The

reason why Jagbir is " mostly correct " is because of his inner spiritual

knowledge, also called the absolute truth, also called gnosis; oneness. It is

" oneness " and not duality that makes Jagbir " mostly correct " . For example, you

also quoted Shri Mataji's own quotes, yet misunderstood those quotes. So it is

not a given that just because " you mostly base your statements on Shri Mataji's

own quotes " that a person is going to be " mostly correct " . But it does help. But

that is exactly where the inner spiritual knowledge is so very, very essential.

Otherwise things are misunderstood and misinterpreted and what you get

eventually is like the SYSSR that in the end results in actually going against

the truth that Shri Mataji gave.

 

In the first paragraph, Michalis you say that you want to have a constructive

dialogue. i can assure you that this statement is definitely not " constructive

dialogue " :

 

" Nevertheless your way of expressing your views and the lack of sweetness and

humility in your words indicate a person knowledgable, yet naive in

understanding. "

 

Here, against your own wishes, you destructively criticize for the following:

 

1. " your way of expressing your views "

 

2. " the lack of sweetness and humility "

 

3. " knowledgeable, yet naive in understanding "

 

Michalis, please take up a mirror, and see yourself, because that is definitely

not Jagbir. Besides what is wrong with [1] " your way of expressing your views " ?

i certainly don't understand that one! But i have to say - your way of

expressing your views in this; your email to Jagbir, leaves a lot to be desired.

 

 

> However, it was interesting to see that in order to casually pass

> judgemenet on someone else you mentioned a discussion we had some

> time back. Let me quote you from the link you yourself provided:

>

> " Michalis, you asked me whether i " go along with Shri Mataji's

> teachings or you differentiate when you think it is proper. " i go

> along with Shri Mataji's teachings and enlighten when i think it is

> proper. "

 

Michalis, you passed judgment on Jagbir's spiritual integrity, which is apparent

here:

 

> " Michalis, you asked me whether i " go along with Shri Mataji's

> teachings or you differentiate when you think it is proper. " i go

> along with Shri Mataji's teachings and enlighten when i think it is

> proper. "

 

Jagbir gave you a good and proper answer that " I go along with Shri Mataji's

teachings and enlighten when i think it is proper " . See, Jagbir is not as you

described, Point 3: " knowledgeable, yet naive in understanding " . He is very

'understanding' of your judgment of him, which is why he brought up 'your issue'

(not his issue) ------ because that issue is still not resolved within you. It

is still there. And it is a destructive criticism. And you must stop that now,

because it is not achieving anything. Especially, it is hurting your Spirit and

not good for your spiritual ascent.

 

 

> You also said it would take me weeks or even months to understand

> this statement. Well it's been years, and i still haven't. If there

> is any meening other than the fact that you just choose to

> " enlighten " Shri Mataji's instructions, the ones that you don't

> understand, i admitt i'm blind to it. Please take some time to

> realise that you'll light up the Sun way before you'll enlighten

> Shri Mataji's words. Not just you of course, any of us!

 

[Michalis, others including myself do understand Jagbir's statement. i wish you

could understand it too. It is very simple really - based on the knowledge

within. There are only two things that keep people away from the knowledge

within - ego and conditionings. But that can be taken care of. Your saying that

" i'm blind to it " confirms that the ego is standing in the way. It is the ego

that does the 'blinding'. Once that subsides, you will understand the inner

spiritual meaning, the inner spiritual understanding. But that also takes

humility. Saying that: " Please take some time to realise that you'll light up

the Sun way before you'll enlighten Shri Mataji's words " is not exactly the

'kind of humility' i am suggesting for your spiritual health.

 

 

> regarding the use for Her photograph, i totally agree with you and

> this is what happens in Sahaja Yoga. Shri Mataji's photograph is

> just there. As simple as that.

 

It is nice to have Her photograph there, which gives focus and strength. But the

realisation has to come from ourselves. It's just as well that Shri Mataji

clarified this, otherwise you would continue to argue this as you did with

Jagbir ------- because you still did not understand, even when Shri Mataji said

it in black and white, that: " realisation has to come from ourselves " . So i

think you should be grateful to Jagbir for clarifying this with you. Don't you

agree too?

 

 

> It would be nice if someone with your knowledge was helping with the

> spreading of Shri Mataji's message. It is common that extremely

> knowledgable people go to extremes and miss the essence, the core of

> the Divine Teachings. Adishakti.org is a source of knowledge, not

> the path. Too much vidya turns into a-vidya if you don't decorate it

> with your humility. It is important that you do that. Not just

> trying to show off your knowledge and your so called exposures on

> the WCASY and mainstream Sahaja Yogis. The only way, the path, is

> simple meeditation and participation in the collective, at least

> according to Her " unenlightened " instructions.

>

> Lots of love,

> michalis

>

> JSM

 

 

Michalis, you have a way of bunching everything into a " state of no meaning " .

Firstly, Jagbir " is " using his knowledge (gnosis) to spread the Divine Message

of Shri Mataji - and not the SYSSR of WCASY. If Jagbir had all the knowledge in

the world, but not the gnosis, all that knowledge would avail him and others,

nothing. This knowledge (gnosis) is not an " extreme knowledge " as you describe

it. It is an inner, balanced, integrated spiritual knowledge. The path can only

ever be within a person themselves. Adishakti.org is the knowledge that

enables/encourages/instructs people to that path within.

 

Michalis, you say that:

 

" Too much vidya turns into a-vidya if you don't decorate it with your humility.

It is important that you do that. "

 

Michalis, you are probably one of the most incredible people i have read on this

forum - who either talks about himself in big ways, or alternatively talks

against Jagbir. i don't exactly see any humility in that. Maybe, you should

preach this sermon to yourself first, before giving it to others - don't you

think? Besides, Jagbir is not as you say " showing off his knowledge " - but you

are definitely showing off your ignorance.

 

 

" The only way, the path, is simple meeditation and participation in the

collective, at least according to Her " unenlightened " instructions " .

 

It takes more than simple meditation, Michalis. It takes facing yourself, in

introspection. With regard to collectivity, Shri Mataji described that to be

" where there is no other " (ananya), which is a state of collectivity, rather

than a location of collectivity. The fact that Shri Mataji said that one person

can be in one country and another in another country and still be collective,

shows that Shri Mataji is not just talking about a local, physically present

collective. Shri Mataji is now asking SYs to split up into groups of 4-5 or

whatever. With your externally focussed way of looking at things, you could be

thinking that Shri Mataji is splitting up the collective, when She is not.

 

Maybe you still have a bit more maturing to do, i think.

 

regards,

 

violet

 

 

>

> , " jagbir singh "

> <adishakti_org@> wrote:

> >

> > , " michalis_9 "

> <michalis_9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hello Jagbir and group members,

> > >

> > > I haven't posted for a long long time but i was visiting from time

> > > to time and i hope you will accept my humble opinion on using Shri

> > > Mataji's photograph:

> > >

> >

> > You are welcome Michalis. The last time we exchanged emails you were

> > quite agitated that i referred to Shri Mataji as a mere incarnation:

> >

> > " I agree with you that it is the Spirit within that matters but you

> > exaggerate about Mother. She is nothing close to " mere " . Can I ask

> > you when She said She is not doing anything? I know She's said

> > that She works even during Her sleep. That She absorbs all our

> > negativity, and Her attention is on us when we do puja. As far as

> > I'm concerned we are lucky to have Her with us and claiming She is

> > a mere incarnation does Her disservice. Moreover I've read talks

> > where she wants us to use Her photo, even wear badges... What are

> > you talking about.

> >

> > Please state whether you go along with Shri Mataji's teachings or

> > you differentiate when you think it is proper.

> >

> > Regards, Michalis "

> >

> > /message/8502

> >

> > >

> > > Clearly She has said in Her latest talk that the realization should

> > > come from us and not from the photograph. This means that we are

> > > supposed to use it, not to cling on it.

> > >

> >

> > You have again misunderstood Her. Let me refresh you with Her 2008

> > Guru Puja talk:

> >

> > & #65533;And so many of you can be, but you have to attain first,

`Are you

> > capable of being a guru or not?' With humbleness you will

> > understand. Those who think they can be guru should become gurus,

> > because now I can't travel from places to places. And you have to do

> > my job, is to give realization to people. But you have to be able

> > to give en-mass realization, then only you could be a guru. If you

> > can give en-mass realization, then you could be a guru.

> >

> > You can use my photograph, but the realization should not be from

> > the photograph, but from you. Then only you can be a guru. & #65533;

(end)

> >

> > So Michalis, Self-realization should come from you and not the

> > photograph. It is absurd to think that the photograph, not the Adi

> > Shakti/Holy Spirit/Mother Kundalini within, confers Self-realization.

> > Most SYs think just like you because of the SYSSR.

> >

> > So how can the realization come from you, not the photograph? Before

> > continuing let me tell you that realizing the Self is a long, long,

> > long process. It took me a decade to accomplish it .... and help me

> > attain 2% enlightenment. Except for kundalini awakening and

> > establishing the Cool Breeze the SYSSR has little to do with Self-

> > realization.

> >

> > So how can the realization of Self come from you, not the photograph?

> >

> > Related Articles:

> > Jesus: " God is spirit, and those who worship him ... "

> > Self as Spirit: & #65533;Jesus answered them ... "

> > Who am I - Deepak Chopra

> > Silence Is God's First Language

> > Theosis is a state akin to 'enlightenment'

> > Look deep within

> > God (Brahman) exists in every living being

> > Aim of being reborn known to almost every religion

> > All Holy Scriptures uphold the Self as Spirit, for Self is God

> > Allâh is " closer to him (the human) than [his] jugular vein. "

> > Yoga and Meditation (Dhyana) by Georg Feuerstein

> > Has Yoga strayed from its core?

> > Yoga is an art of living and not a religious practice

> > A Christian practicing sahaja yoga meditation

> > Shri Mataji: " Achieve your Self, become your Self. "

> > Shri Mataji: " But this Judgment is so beautiful. "

> > Shri Mataji: " What Christ said ... is nothing but Advaita. "

> > On being liberated from the dualities of pleasure and pain

> > Yoga Methods in Christian Mysticism

> > Shri Mataji: " The ultimate act against the Spirit ... "

> > Shri Mataji: " Self-Realization will lead to creation of a new race "

> > Each religion springs from a profound experience of the Spirit

> > This new mode of being and consciousness is the ...

> > For if you walk on this road, it is impossible to go astray

> > Mystic & #65533;s discovery of higher Self is only a step on a

greater journey

> > For the mystics, Jesus was a living embodiment of union with God

> > Gnosis essentially is act of distinguishing soul from deepest self

> > People who have never even glimpsed the realm of the sacred

> > Eckhart Tolle's Teachings and Self-realization are in perfect harmony

> > Eckhart Tolle's Stillness Speaks and T. A. are in perfect harmony

> > What and where is Self/Brahman/God/Being ...?

> >

> >

>

http://www.adishakti.org/forum/jesus_god_is_spirit_and_those_who_worship_him_mus\

t_worship_in_spirit_and_truth_10-22-2007.htm

> >

> >

> > >

> > > But She also said that we should have Her photograph whenever we

> > > have meetings, and also use it for puja till we are gurus and make

> > > enough Sahaja Yogis. I think Her words were " You don't cancel Me " .

> > >

> >

> > But Michalis, having Her photo for meetings and puja is not the same

> > as & #65533;the realization should not be from the photograph, but from

> > you & #65533;. i have never said that we should not use Her

photograph for

> > meetings and puja because that is required. Shri Mataji is telling us

> > that we use the photograph for public meetings BUT the Self-

> > realization must still come from you and your powers. Yet again She

> > emphasizes this important distinction between Her photograph and

> > realizing of the Self, which the photo cannot enlighten

& #65533; & #65533;. all the

> > more since the seekers know so little! (How much did you know in the

> > beginning Michalis, the irony being that you still have not realized

> > your Self despite years practising the SYSSR?)

> >

> > & #65533;To begin with you can use my photograph, but latter on,

you can

> > only put the photograph there but use your own powers and give

> > realization. You can do it, and that is how we can spread Sahaja

> > Yoga all over the world. I have done my level best now, but I don't

> > think now I can travel anymore. So I am telling you that you have to

> > take over, and work it out. That doesn't mean you cancel Me & #65533;

> > no, not at all! I am there with you. And every place you work you put

> > my photograph. But realization you have to give and try to give mass

> > realization. If that doesn't work out then you should know that you

> > are not a guru. If you can give mass realization, then only you are a

> > guru. Otherwise you are not. & #65533; (end)

> >

> > But it is indeed impossible to explain anything without Shri Mataji,

> > and by that i mean Her all-encompassing advent and message of the

> > Blossom Time. More than three decades of enlightenment are

> > indispensable in triggering the General Resurrection. Without Her

> > quotes it is impossible to do anything. And seekers have to see how

> > the incarnation of the Adi Shakti, how the Comforter looks like? So

> > how can anyone of us ever cancel Her?

> >

> > >

> > > Of course She is inside, but as She says what is inside is also

> > > outside. The embodiment of such a Divine Force is not to be

> > > disregarded.

> > >

> >

> > She is 1% outside and 99% inside. After Shri Mataji & #65533;s

Mahasamadhi She

> > will be 100% inside. Where are SYs going to look for Her then? .....

> > in Her photograph? Why do i keep insisting that time is on Her side,

> > and ours too?

> >

> > >

> > > She also said that we can tell the seekers about Her if necessary.

> > > Not to go out and start yelling " The Comforter has come!! " . She

> > > gives us complete freedom as to how to approach the seekers, we can

> > > either tell them about Her nature immediately, or wait and see (as

> > > She Herself used to do).

> > >

> >

> > SYs have been waiting forever to announce the Comforter & #65533;s

advent and

> > message to humanity. Unlike them, Shri Mataji has always been honest

> > and upfront to the public about the Last Judgment. That is why

> > despite three decades 99.99% of humanity neither knows nor will be

> > interested in the SYSSR. And with Shri Mataji retiring the sun will,

> > without question, set on the SYSSR.

> >

> > But She has given us complete freedom to form our own organizations

> > and spread Her advent and message to humanity. Only fools will go out

> > and start yelling & #65533;The Comforter has come!! & #65533;

Intelligent people will

> > only need to give seekers links to http://www.adishakti.org ........

> > before or after triggering their spiritual birth by the Spirit

> > (kundalini awakening). Then these seekers can spend months/years

> > realizing their Self as they take part in the Resurrection. That is

> > how en masse realization will work out Michalis!

> >

> > >

> > > These are just my thoughts, a bit more matured compared to the last

> > > time i posted here, not necessarily due to footsoaking or WCASY

> > > approved treatments but due to collectivity and spreading of Sahaja

> > > Yoga...

> > >

> > > love, michalis

> > >

> > > JSM

> > >

> >

> > You have matured Michalis but still have a long way to realize your

> > Self, and the knowledge required for just that. All the footsoaks or

> > WCASY approved treatments will never bring you any closer. On the

> > contrary, you will only drift away and stagnate. Period!

> >

> > regards,

> >

> >

> > jagbir

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Violet,

 

Please re-read my initial post. In there i did not criticize or judged

anyone. Jagbir on the other hand, instead of trying to start a

constructive dialogue, he started a not so constructive criticism.

Sahaja Yoga is against -ism's.

Of course i replied back, because i simply could not act differently.

This is one of my main flaws, and instead of interpreting Shri

Mataji's words according to my comfort, i prefer to say it clearly.

 

Anything you said could be true. Evry single word. But they are not.

The reason is because Jagbir is not the person he commercializes

himself to be. I am sorry, but coming back two years after my last

participation in your discussions, i see no difference in his (and

yours as it turns out) bad manners against anyone who has a different

opinion.

 

I took up Sahaja Yoga because of the Love that Shri Mataji was

emmitting and also insiring, and i will, permanently this time, leave

your discussion list for the arogance, ignorance, and bad manners you

and Jagbir emmitt and also the aggressivenes that your abusive posts

inspire.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read my post, even superficially, and

replying to me. I can only wish that true seekers will see the

hypocricy and the self-centerdness that encircles your posts.

 

Love, mike

 

JSM

 

, " Violet " <violetubb

wrote:

>

> , " michalis_9 "

> <michalis_9@> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Jagbir,

> >

> > I'm in no position to declare anyone (let alone myself) as

> > Self-Realized or not. All i'm interested in is constructive dialogue

> > on spiritual matters, not to judge anyone or criticize out of the

> > blue, as was asked by our Mother in Her latest speech. Therefore i

> > find your comments on my (or anyone's for that matter) maturity and

> > Self-Realization inappropriate as well as anti-Sahaj.

>

> Dear Michalis,

>

> You say that " I'm in no position to declare anyone (let alone

myself) as Self-Realised. If you are suggesting that Jagbir has said

the wrong thing - then you are in the wrong, yourself. Aside from

that, a person that is Self-Realised knows it without a doubt, because

of their absolute knowledge/gnosis within. They have the oneness

instead of the duality - which is why they can be so confident as to

the truth of a matter. In regards to your statement that: " All i'm

interested in is constructive dialogue on spiritual matters " ------- i

know you're going to consider me unloving, unSahaj and anti-Sahaj for

telling you this, but until you reduce your ego a wee teensy bit, you

won't be able to have truly constructive dialogue on spiritual matters

- not even with your own Spirit within.

>

> You say you are not interested in judging and criticising anyone,

yet you judge and criticize Jagbir. You also expect him to accept your

opinion when he knew it was not a correct opinion based on the

absolute knowledge within. He humbly explained that in the light of

his Spirit. True humility is to be strong, not a pansy, not a

washover, but to be able to stand up and say the truth - regardless of

others opinions surrounding the truth, which [opinions] are not the

same as the truth itself. When Shri Mataji is talking about not

criticizing someone, She is talking about destructive criticism that

tears a person down. She is not talking about constructive criticism.

Shri Mataji gave constructive criticism all the time and that' show we

learned so much from Her. What Jagbir told you was constructive

criticism, for your spiritual benevolence, but maybe you don't realise

that.

>

>

> > Given the fact that you mostly base your statements on Shri Mataji's

> > own quotes, it is natural that you are mostly correct. Nevertheless

> > your way of expressing your views and the lack of sweetness and

> > humility in your words indicate a person knowledgable, yet naive in

> > understanding.

>

> " Given the fact that you [Jagbir] mostly base your statements on

Shri Mataji's own quotes " ------------- is not the reason why " you are

mostly correct " . The reason why Jagbir is " mostly correct " is because

of his inner spiritual knowledge, also called the absolute truth, also

called gnosis; oneness. It is " oneness " and not duality that makes

Jagbir " mostly correct " . For example, you also quoted Shri Mataji's

own quotes, yet misunderstood those quotes. So it is not a given that

just because " you mostly base your statements on Shri Mataji's own

quotes " that a person is going to be " mostly correct " . But it does

help. But that is exactly where the inner spiritual knowledge is so

very, very essential. Otherwise things are misunderstood and

misinterpreted and what you get eventually is like the SYSSR that in

the end results in actually going against the truth that Shri Mataji gave.

>

> In the first paragraph, Michalis you say that you want to have a

constructive dialogue. i can assure you that this statement is

definitely not " constructive dialogue " :

>

> " Nevertheless your way of expressing your views and the lack of

sweetness and humility in your words indicate a person knowledgable,

yet naive in understanding. "

>

> Here, against your own wishes, you destructively criticize for the

following:

>

> 1. " your way of expressing your views "

>

> 2. " the lack of sweetness and humility "

>

> 3. " knowledgeable, yet naive in understanding "

>

> Michalis, please take up a mirror, and see yourself, because that is

definitely not Jagbir. Besides what is wrong with [1] " your way of

expressing your views " ? i certainly don't understand that one! But i

have to say - your way of expressing your views in this; your email to

Jagbir, leaves a lot to be desired.

>

>

> > However, it was interesting to see that in order to casually pass

> > judgemenet on someone else you mentioned a discussion we had some

> > time back. Let me quote you from the link you yourself provided:

> >

> > " Michalis, you asked me whether i " go along with Shri Mataji's

> > teachings or you differentiate when you think it is proper. " i go

> > along with Shri Mataji's teachings and enlighten when i think it is

> > proper. "

>

> Michalis, you passed judgment on Jagbir's spiritual integrity, which

is apparent here:

>

> > " Michalis, you asked me whether i " go along with Shri Mataji's

> > teachings or you differentiate when you think it is proper. " i go

> > along with Shri Mataji's teachings and enlighten when i think it is

> > proper. "

>

> Jagbir gave you a good and proper answer that " I go along with Shri

Mataji's teachings and enlighten when i think it is proper " . See,

Jagbir is not as you described, Point 3: " knowledgeable, yet naive in

understanding " . He is very 'understanding' of your judgment of him,

which is why he brought up 'your issue' (not his issue) ------ because

that issue is still not resolved within you. It is still there. And it

is a destructive criticism. And you must stop that now, because it is

not achieving anything. Especially, it is hurting your Spirit and not

good for your spiritual ascent.

>

>

> > You also said it would take me weeks or even months to understand

> > this statement. Well it's been years, and i still haven't. If there

> > is any meening other than the fact that you just choose to

> > " enlighten " Shri Mataji's instructions, the ones that you don't

> > understand, i admitt i'm blind to it. Please take some time to

> > realise that you'll light up the Sun way before you'll enlighten

> > Shri Mataji's words. Not just you of course, any of us!

>

> [Michalis, others including myself do understand Jagbir's statement.

i wish you could understand it too. It is very simple really - based

on the knowledge within. There are only two things that keep people

away from the knowledge within - ego and conditionings. But that can

be taken care of. Your saying that " i'm blind to it " confirms that the

ego is standing in the way. It is the ego that does the 'blinding'.

Once that subsides, you will understand the inner spiritual meaning,

the inner spiritual understanding. But that also takes humility.

Saying that: " Please take some time to realise that you'll light up

the Sun way before you'll enlighten Shri Mataji's words " is not

exactly the 'kind of humility' i am suggesting for your spiritual health.

>

>

> > regarding the use for Her photograph, i totally agree with you and

> > this is what happens in Sahaja Yoga. Shri Mataji's photograph is

> > just there. As simple as that.

>

> It is nice to have Her photograph there, which gives focus and

strength. But the realisation has to come from ourselves. It's just as

well that Shri Mataji clarified this, otherwise you would continue to

argue this as you did with Jagbir ------- because you still did not

understand, even when Shri Mataji said it in black and white, that:

" realisation has to come from ourselves " . So i think you should be

grateful to Jagbir for clarifying this with you. Don't you agree too?

>

>

> > It would be nice if someone with your knowledge was helping with the

> > spreading of Shri Mataji's message. It is common that extremely

> > knowledgable people go to extremes and miss the essence, the core of

> > the Divine Teachings. Adishakti.org is a source of knowledge, not

> > the path. Too much vidya turns into a-vidya if you don't decorate it

> > with your humility. It is important that you do that. Not just

> > trying to show off your knowledge and your so called exposures on

> > the WCASY and mainstream Sahaja Yogis. The only way, the path, is

> > simple meeditation and participation in the collective, at least

> > according to Her " unenlightened " instructions.

> >

> > Lots of love,

> > michalis

> >

> > JSM

>

>

> Michalis, you have a way of bunching everything into a " state of no

meaning " . Firstly, Jagbir " is " using his knowledge (gnosis) to spread

the Divine Message of Shri Mataji - and not the SYSSR of WCASY. If

Jagbir had all the knowledge in the world, but not the gnosis, all

that knowledge would avail him and others, nothing. This knowledge

(gnosis) is not an " extreme knowledge " as you describe it. It is an

inner, balanced, integrated spiritual knowledge. The path can only

ever be within a person themselves. Adishakti.org is the knowledge

that enables/encourages/instructs people to that path within.

>

> Michalis, you say that:

>

> " Too much vidya turns into a-vidya if you don't decorate it with

your humility. It is important that you do that. "

>

> Michalis, you are probably one of the most incredible people i have

read on this forum - who either talks about himself in big ways, or

alternatively talks against Jagbir. i don't exactly see any humility

in that. Maybe, you should preach this sermon to yourself first,

before giving it to others - don't you think? Besides, Jagbir is not

as you say " showing off his knowledge " - but you are definitely

showing off your ignorance.

>

>

> " The only way, the path, is simple meeditation and participation in

the collective, at least according to Her " unenlightened " instructions " .

>

> It takes more than simple meditation, Michalis. It takes facing

yourself, in introspection. With regard to collectivity, Shri Mataji

described that to be " where there is no other " (ananya), which is a

state of collectivity, rather than a location of collectivity. The

fact that Shri Mataji said that one person can be in one country and

another in another country and still be collective, shows that Shri

Mataji is not just talking about a local, physically present

collective. Shri Mataji is now asking SYs to split up into groups of

4-5 or whatever. With your externally focussed way of looking at

things, you could be thinking that Shri Mataji is splitting up the

collective, when She is not.

>

> Maybe you still have a bit more maturing to do, i think.

>

> regards,

>

> violet

>

>

> >

> > , " jagbir singh "

> > <adishakti_org@> wrote:

> > >

> > > , " michalis_9 "

> > <michalis_9@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Hello Jagbir and group members,

> > > >

> > > > I haven't posted for a long long time but i was visiting from time

> > > > to time and i hope you will accept my humble opinion on using Shri

> > > > Mataji's photograph:

> > > >

> > >

> > > You are welcome Michalis. The last time we exchanged emails you were

> > > quite agitated that i referred to Shri Mataji as a mere incarnation:

> > >

> > > " I agree with you that it is the Spirit within that matters but you

> > > exaggerate about Mother. She is nothing close to " mere " . Can I ask

> > > you when She said She is not doing anything? I know She's said

> > > that She works even during Her sleep. That She absorbs all our

> > > negativity, and Her attention is on us when we do puja. As far as

> > > I'm concerned we are lucky to have Her with us and claiming She is

> > > a mere incarnation does Her disservice. Moreover I've read talks

> > > where she wants us to use Her photo, even wear badges... What are

> > > you talking about.

> > >

> > > Please state whether you go along with Shri Mataji's teachings or

> > > you differentiate when you think it is proper.

> > >

> > > Regards, Michalis "

> > >

> > > /message/8502

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Clearly She has said in Her latest talk that the realization

should

> > > > come from us and not from the photograph. This means that we are

> > > > supposed to use it, not to cling on it.

> > > >

> > >

> > > You have again misunderstood Her. Let me refresh you with Her 2008

> > > Guru Puja talk:

> > >

> > > & #65533;And so many of you can be, but you have to attain first,

> `Are you

> > > capable of being a guru or not?' With humbleness you will

> > > understand. Those who think they can be guru should become gurus,

> > > because now I can't travel from places to places. And you have to do

> > > my job, is to give realization to people. But you have to be able

> > > to give en-mass realization, then only you could be a guru. If you

> > > can give en-mass realization, then you could be a guru.

> > >

> > > You can use my photograph, but the realization should not be from

> > > the photograph, but from you. Then only you can be a guru. & #65533;

> (end)

> > >

> > > So Michalis, Self-realization should come from you and not the

> > > photograph. It is absurd to think that the photograph, not the Adi

> > > Shakti/Holy Spirit/Mother Kundalini within, confers

Self-realization.

> > > Most SYs think just like you because of the SYSSR.

> > >

> > > So how can the realization come from you, not the photograph? Before

> > > continuing let me tell you that realizing the Self is a long, long,

> > > long process. It took me a decade to accomplish it .... and help me

> > > attain 2% enlightenment. Except for kundalini awakening and

> > > establishing the Cool Breeze the SYSSR has little to do with Self-

> > > realization.

> > >

> > > So how can the realization of Self come from you, not the

photograph?

> > >

> > > Related Articles:

> > > Jesus: " God is spirit, and those who worship him ... "

> > > Self as Spirit: & #65533;Jesus answered them ... "

> > > Who am I - Deepak Chopra

> > > Silence Is God's First Language

> > > Theosis is a state akin to 'enlightenment'

> > > Look deep within

> > > God (Brahman) exists in every living being

> > > Aim of being reborn known to almost every religion

> > > All Holy Scriptures uphold the Self as Spirit, for Self is God

> > > Allâh is " closer to him (the human) than [his] jugular vein. "

> > > Yoga and Meditation (Dhyana) by Georg Feuerstein

> > > Has Yoga strayed from its core?

> > > Yoga is an art of living and not a religious practice

> > > A Christian practicing sahaja yoga meditation

> > > Shri Mataji: " Achieve your Self, become your Self. "

> > > Shri Mataji: " But this Judgment is so beautiful. "

> > > Shri Mataji: " What Christ said ... is nothing but Advaita. "

> > > On being liberated from the dualities of pleasure and pain

> > > Yoga Methods in Christian Mysticism

> > > Shri Mataji: " The ultimate act against the Spirit ... "

> > > Shri Mataji: " Self-Realization will lead to creation of a new race "

> > > Each religion springs from a profound experience of the Spirit

> > > This new mode of being and consciousness is the ...

> > > For if you walk on this road, it is impossible to go astray

> > > Mystic & #65533;s discovery of higher Self is only a step on a

> greater journey

> > > For the mystics, Jesus was a living embodiment of union with God

> > > Gnosis essentially is act of distinguishing soul from deepest self

> > > People who have never even glimpsed the realm of the sacred

> > > Eckhart Tolle's Teachings and Self-realization are in perfect

harmony

> > > Eckhart Tolle's Stillness Speaks and T. A. are in perfect harmony

> > > What and where is Self/Brahman/God/Being ...?

> > >

> > >

> >

>

http://www.adishakti.org/forum/jesus_god_is_spirit_and_those_who_worship_him_mus\

t_worship_in_spirit_and_truth_10-22-2007.htm

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > But She also said that we should have Her photograph whenever we

> > > > have meetings, and also use it for puja till we are gurus and make

> > > > enough Sahaja Yogis. I think Her words were " You don't cancel Me " .

> > > >

> > >

> > > But Michalis, having Her photo for meetings and puja is not the same

> > > as & #65533;the realization should not be from the photograph,

but from

> > > you & #65533;. i have never said that we should not use Her

> photograph for

> > > meetings and puja because that is required. Shri Mataji is

telling us

> > > that we use the photograph for public meetings BUT the Self-

> > > realization must still come from you and your powers. Yet again She

> > > emphasizes this important distinction between Her photograph and

> > > realizing of the Self, which the photo cannot enlighten

> & #65533; & #65533;. all the

> > > more since the seekers know so little! (How much did you know in the

> > > beginning Michalis, the irony being that you still have not realized

> > > your Self despite years practising the SYSSR?)

> > >

> > > & #65533;To begin with you can use my photograph, but latter on,

> you can

> > > only put the photograph there but use your own powers and give

> > > realization. You can do it, and that is how we can spread Sahaja

> > > Yoga all over the world. I have done my level best now, but I don't

> > > think now I can travel anymore. So I am telling you that you have to

> > > take over, and work it out. That doesn't mean you cancel Me & #65533;

> > > no, not at all! I am there with you. And every place you work

you put

> > > my photograph. But realization you have to give and try to give mass

> > > realization. If that doesn't work out then you should know that you

> > > are not a guru. If you can give mass realization, then only you

are a

> > > guru. Otherwise you are not. & #65533; (end)

> > >

> > > But it is indeed impossible to explain anything without Shri Mataji,

> > > and by that i mean Her all-encompassing advent and message of the

> > > Blossom Time. More than three decades of enlightenment are

> > > indispensable in triggering the General Resurrection. Without Her

> > > quotes it is impossible to do anything. And seekers have to see how

> > > the incarnation of the Adi Shakti, how the Comforter looks like? So

> > > how can anyone of us ever cancel Her?

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Of course She is inside, but as She says what is inside is also

> > > > outside. The embodiment of such a Divine Force is not to be

> > > > disregarded.

> > > >

> > >

> > > She is 1% outside and 99% inside. After Shri Mataji & #65533;s

> Mahasamadhi She

> > > will be 100% inside. Where are SYs going to look for Her then? .....

> > > in Her photograph? Why do i keep insisting that time is on Her side,

> > > and ours too?

> > >

> > > >

> > > > She also said that we can tell the seekers about Her if necessary.

> > > > Not to go out and start yelling " The Comforter has come!! " . She

> > > > gives us complete freedom as to how to approach the seekers,

we can

> > > > either tell them about Her nature immediately, or wait and see (as

> > > > She Herself used to do).

> > > >

> > >

> > > SYs have been waiting forever to announce the Comforter & #65533;s

> advent and

> > > message to humanity. Unlike them, Shri Mataji has always been honest

> > > and upfront to the public about the Last Judgment. That is why

> > > despite three decades 99.99% of humanity neither knows nor will be

> > > interested in the SYSSR. And with Shri Mataji retiring the sun will,

> > > without question, set on the SYSSR.

> > >

> > > But She has given us complete freedom to form our own organizations

> > > and spread Her advent and message to humanity. Only fools will

go out

> > > and start yelling & #65533;The Comforter has come!! & #65533;

> Intelligent people will

> > > only need to give seekers links to http://www.adishakti.org ........

> > > before or after triggering their spiritual birth by the Spirit

> > > (kundalini awakening). Then these seekers can spend months/years

> > > realizing their Self as they take part in the Resurrection. That is

> > > how en masse realization will work out Michalis!

> > >

> > > >

> > > > These are just my thoughts, a bit more matured compared to the

last

> > > > time i posted here, not necessarily due to footsoaking or WCASY

> > > > approved treatments but due to collectivity and spreading of

Sahaja

> > > > Yoga...

> > > >

> > > > love, michalis

> > > >

> > > > JSM

> > > >

> > >

> > > You have matured Michalis but still have a long way to realize your

> > > Self, and the knowledge required for just that. All the footsoaks or

> > > WCASY approved treatments will never bring you any closer. On the

> > > contrary, you will only drift away and stagnate. Period!

> > >

> > > regards,

> > >

> > >

> > > jagbir

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Michalis,

 

> Hello Violet,

>

> Please re-read my initial post. In there i did not criticize or

> judged anyone. Jagbir on the other hand, instead of trying to start

> a constructive dialogue, he started a not so constructive criticism.

> Sahaja Yoga is against -ism's. Of course i replied back, because i

> simply could not act differently. This is one of my main flaws, and

> instead of interpreting Shri Mataji's words according to my comfort,

> i prefer to say it clearly.

 

Michalis, i did not even have to read your initial post. i could tell from

Jagbir's response that he had gone to the heart of the matter. Jagbir does not

constructively criticize without good reason. That i know. Sahaja Yoga is not

against constructive criticism - even if it ends in an " ism " . To reply to a post

is not a flaw. i don't understand what you mean, when you say: " Instead of

interpreting Shri Mataji's words according to my comfort, i prefer to say it

clearly " . That just does not make sense. In oneness, there is both comfort and

clarity and they go together like a horse and carriage, not separated.

 

 

> Anything you said could be true. Evry single word. But they are not.

> The reason is because Jagbir is not the person he commercializes

> himself to be. I am sorry, but coming back two years after my last

> participation in your discussions, i see no difference in his (and

> yours as it turns out) bad manners against anyone who has a

> different opinion.

 

If you are suggesting that what i have said is not true, it is only courteous

and honest to say which part, so that i can respond to that. As far as i know, i

have said what is true. You can't just accuse blindly, without substantiating

it, Michalis. Jagbir does not commercialize himself to be what he is. He just is

what he is. Again, you destructively criticize Jagbir, Michalis. What you call

'bad manners' is just saying the truth. It is 'bad manners' of you to ask Jagbir

to accept your opinion - because Sahaja Yoga is never about accepting someone's

opinion.

 

 

> I took up Sahaja Yoga because of the Love that Shri Mataji was

> emmitting and also insiring, and i will, permanently this time,

> leave your discussion list for the arogance, ignorance, and bad

> manners you and Jagbir emmitt and also the aggressivenes that your

> abusive posts inspire.

 

You are the only person that has ever accused me of being arrogant, ignorant,

and with bad manners. i can assure you that all my family and friends would be

shocked of anyone saying that of myself. Again, Michalis, please tell me: " How

have i been so-called abusive to you? " Please give evidence of your accusation

before you hang, draw, and quarter me.

 

 

> Thank you for taking the time to read my post, even superficially,

> and replying to me. I can only wish that true seekers will see the

> hypocricy and the self-centerdness that encircles your posts.

>

> Love, mike

>

> JSM

 

i did not read your post superficially, but in depth, and responded to it,

truthfully. True seekers love this site and have many times thanked Jagbir,

others and myself for the work that is being done.

 

regards,

 

violet

 

 

 

> , " Violet " <violetubb@>

> wrote:

> >

> > , " michalis_9 "

> > <michalis_9@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear Jagbir,

> > >

> > > I'm in no position to declare anyone (let alone myself) as

> > > Self-Realized or not. All i'm interested in is constructive dialogue

> > > on spiritual matters, not to judge anyone or criticize out of the

> > > blue, as was asked by our Mother in Her latest speech. Therefore i

> > > find your comments on my (or anyone's for that matter) maturity and

> > > Self-Realization inappropriate as well as anti-Sahaj.

> >

> > Dear Michalis,

> >

> > You say that " I'm in no position to declare anyone (let alone

> myself) as Self-Realised. If you are suggesting that Jagbir has said

> the wrong thing - then you are in the wrong, yourself. Aside from

> that, a person that is Self-Realised knows it without a doubt, because

> of their absolute knowledge/gnosis within. They have the oneness

> instead of the duality - which is why they can be so confident as to

> the truth of a matter. In regards to your statement that: " All i'm

> interested in is constructive dialogue on spiritual matters " ------- i

> know you're going to consider me unloving, unSahaj and anti-Sahaj for

> telling you this, but until you reduce your ego a wee teensy bit, you

> won't be able to have truly constructive dialogue on spiritual matters

> - not even with your own Spirit within.

> >

> > You say you are not interested in judging and criticising anyone,

> yet you judge and criticize Jagbir. You also expect him to accept your

> opinion when he knew it was not a correct opinion based on the

> absolute knowledge within. He humbly explained that in the light of

> his Spirit. True humility is to be strong, not a pansy, not a

> washover, but to be able to stand up and say the truth - regardless of

> others opinions surrounding the truth, which [opinions] are not the

> same as the truth itself. When Shri Mataji is talking about not

> criticizing someone, She is talking about destructive criticism that

> tears a person down. She is not talking about constructive criticism.

> Shri Mataji gave constructive criticism all the time and that' show we

> learned so much from Her. What Jagbir told you was constructive

> criticism, for your spiritual benevolence, but maybe you don't realise

> that.

> >

> >

> > > Given the fact that you mostly base your statements on Shri Mataji's

> > > own quotes, it is natural that you are mostly correct. Nevertheless

> > > your way of expressing your views and the lack of sweetness and

> > > humility in your words indicate a person knowledgable, yet naive in

> > > understanding.

> >

> > " Given the fact that you [Jagbir] mostly base your statements on

> Shri Mataji's own quotes " ------------- is not the reason why " you are

> mostly correct " . The reason why Jagbir is " mostly correct " is because

> of his inner spiritual knowledge, also called the absolute truth, also

> called gnosis; oneness. It is " oneness " and not duality that makes

> Jagbir " mostly correct " . For example, you also quoted Shri Mataji's

> own quotes, yet misunderstood those quotes. So it is not a given that

> just because " you mostly base your statements on Shri Mataji's own

> quotes " that a person is going to be " mostly correct " . But it does

> help. But that is exactly where the inner spiritual knowledge is so

> very, very essential. Otherwise things are misunderstood and

> misinterpreted and what you get eventually is like the SYSSR that in

> the end results in actually going against the truth that Shri Mataji

gave.

> >

> > In the first paragraph, Michalis you say that you want to have a

> constructive dialogue. i can assure you that this statement is

> definitely not " constructive dialogue " :

> >

> > " Nevertheless your way of expressing your views and the lack of

> sweetness and humility in your words indicate a person knowledgable,

> yet naive in understanding. "

> >

> > Here, against your own wishes, you destructively criticize for the

> following:

> >

> > 1. " your way of expressing your views "

> >

> > 2. " the lack of sweetness and humility "

> >

> > 3. " knowledgeable, yet naive in understanding "

> >

> > Michalis, please take up a mirror, and see yourself, because that is

> definitely not Jagbir. Besides what is wrong with [1] " your way of

> expressing your views " ? i certainly don't understand that one! But i

> have to say - your way of expressing your views in this; your email to

> Jagbir, leaves a lot to be desired.

> >

> >

> > > However, it was interesting to see that in order to casually pass

> > > judgemenet on someone else you mentioned a discussion we had some

> > > time back. Let me quote you from the link you yourself provided:

> > >

> > > " Michalis, you asked me whether i " go along with Shri Mataji's

> > > teachings or you differentiate when you think it is proper. " i go

> > > along with Shri Mataji's teachings and enlighten when i think it is

> > > proper. "

> >

> > Michalis, you passed judgment on Jagbir's spiritual integrity, which

> is apparent here:

> >

> > > " Michalis, you asked me whether i " go along with Shri Mataji's

> > > teachings or you differentiate when you think it is proper. " i go

> > > along with Shri Mataji's teachings and enlighten when i think it is

> > > proper. "

> >

> > Jagbir gave you a good and proper answer that " I go along with Shri

> Mataji's teachings and enlighten when i think it is proper " . See,

> Jagbir is not as you described, Point 3: " knowledgeable, yet naive in

> understanding " . He is very 'understanding' of your judgment of him,

> which is why he brought up 'your issue' (not his issue) ------ because

> that issue is still not resolved within you. It is still there. And it

> is a destructive criticism. And you must stop that now, because it is

> not achieving anything. Especially, it is hurting your Spirit and not

> good for your spiritual ascent.

> >

> >

> > > You also said it would take me weeks or even months to understand

> > > this statement. Well it's been years, and i still haven't. If there

> > > is any meening other than the fact that you just choose to

> > > " enlighten " Shri Mataji's instructions, the ones that you don't

> > > understand, i admitt i'm blind to it. Please take some time to

> > > realise that you'll light up the Sun way before you'll enlighten

> > > Shri Mataji's words. Not just you of course, any of us!

> >

> > [Michalis, others including myself do understand Jagbir's statement.

> i wish you could understand it too. It is very simple really - based

> on the knowledge within. There are only two things that keep people

> away from the knowledge within - ego and conditionings. But that can

> be taken care of. Your saying that " i'm blind to it " confirms that the

> ego is standing in the way. It is the ego that does the 'blinding'.

> Once that subsides, you will understand the inner spiritual meaning,

> the inner spiritual understanding. But that also takes humility.

> Saying that: " Please take some time to realise that you'll light up

> the Sun way before you'll enlighten Shri Mataji's words " is not

> exactly the 'kind of humility' i am suggesting for your spiritual

health.

> >

> >

> > > regarding the use for Her photograph, i totally agree with you and

> > > this is what happens in Sahaja Yoga. Shri Mataji's photograph is

> > > just there. As simple as that.

> >

> > It is nice to have Her photograph there, which gives focus and

> strength. But the realisation has to come from ourselves. It's just as

> well that Shri Mataji clarified this, otherwise you would continue to

> argue this as you did with Jagbir ------- because you still did not

> understand, even when Shri Mataji said it in black and white, that:

> " realisation has to come from ourselves " . So i think you should be

> grateful to Jagbir for clarifying this with you. Don't you agree too?

> >

> >

> > > It would be nice if someone with your knowledge was helping with the

> > > spreading of Shri Mataji's message. It is common that extremely

> > > knowledgable people go to extremes and miss the essence, the core of

> > > the Divine Teachings. Adishakti.org is a source of knowledge, not

> > > the path. Too much vidya turns into a-vidya if you don't decorate it

> > > with your humility. It is important that you do that. Not just

> > > trying to show off your knowledge and your so called exposures on

> > > the WCASY and mainstream Sahaja Yogis. The only way, the path, is

> > > simple meeditation and participation in the collective, at least

> > > according to Her " unenlightened " instructions.

> > >

> > > Lots of love,

> > > michalis

> > >

> > > JSM

> >

> >

> > Michalis, you have a way of bunching everything into a " state of no

> meaning " . Firstly, Jagbir " is " using his knowledge (gnosis) to spread

> the Divine Message of Shri Mataji - and not the SYSSR of WCASY. If

> Jagbir had all the knowledge in the world, but not the gnosis, all

> that knowledge would avail him and others, nothing. This knowledge

> (gnosis) is not an " extreme knowledge " as you describe it. It is an

> inner, balanced, integrated spiritual knowledge. The path can only

> ever be within a person themselves. Adishakti.org is the knowledge

> that enables/encourages/instructs people to that path within.

> >

> > Michalis, you say that:

> >

> > " Too much vidya turns into a-vidya if you don't decorate it with

> your humility. It is important that you do that. "

> >

> > Michalis, you are probably one of the most incredible people i have

> read on this forum - who either talks about himself in big ways, or

> alternatively talks against Jagbir. i don't exactly see any humility

> in that. Maybe, you should preach this sermon to yourself first,

> before giving it to others - don't you think? Besides, Jagbir is not

> as you say " showing off his knowledge " - but you are definitely

> showing off your ignorance.

> >

> >

> > " The only way, the path, is simple meeditation and participation in

> the collective, at least according to Her " unenlightened " instructions " .

> >

> > It takes more than simple meditation, Michalis. It takes facing

> yourself, in introspection. With regard to collectivity, Shri Mataji

> described that to be " where there is no other " (ananya), which is a

> state of collectivity, rather than a location of collectivity. The

> fact that Shri Mataji said that one person can be in one country and

> another in another country and still be collective, shows that Shri

> Mataji is not just talking about a local, physically present

> collective. Shri Mataji is now asking SYs to split up into groups of

> 4-5 or whatever. With your externally focussed way of looking at

> things, you could be thinking that Shri Mataji is splitting up the

> collective, when She is not.

> >

> > Maybe you still have a bit more maturing to do, i think.

> >

> > regards,

> >

> > violet

> >

> >

> > >

> > > , " jagbir singh "

> > > <adishakti_org@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > , " michalis_9 "

> > > <michalis_9@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Hello Jagbir and group members,

> > > > >

> > > > > I haven't posted for a long long time but i was visiting

from time

> > > > > to time and i hope you will accept my humble opinion on

using Shri

> > > > > Mataji's photograph:

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You are welcome Michalis. The last time we exchanged emails

you were

> > > > quite agitated that i referred to Shri Mataji as a mere

incarnation:

> > > >

> > > > " I agree with you that it is the Spirit within that matters

but you

> > > > exaggerate about Mother. She is nothing close to " mere " . Can I ask

> > > > you when She said She is not doing anything? I know She's said

> > > > that She works even during Her sleep. That She absorbs all our

> > > > negativity, and Her attention is on us when we do puja. As far as

> > > > I'm concerned we are lucky to have Her with us and claiming She is

> > > > a mere incarnation does Her disservice. Moreover I've read talks

> > > > where she wants us to use Her photo, even wear badges... What are

> > > > you talking about.

> > > >

> > > > Please state whether you go along with Shri Mataji's teachings or

> > > > you differentiate when you think it is proper.

> > > >

> > > > Regards, Michalis "

> > > >

> > > > /message/8502

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Clearly She has said in Her latest talk that the realization

> should

> > > > > come from us and not from the photograph. This means that we are

> > > > > supposed to use it, not to cling on it.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You have again misunderstood Her. Let me refresh you with Her 2008

> > > > Guru Puja talk:

> > > >

> > > > & #65533;And so many of you can be, but you have to attain first,

> > `Are you

> > > > capable of being a guru or not?' With humbleness you will

> > > > understand. Those who think they can be guru should become gurus,

> > > > because now I can't travel from places to places. And you have

to do

> > > > my job, is to give realization to people. But you have to be able

> > > > to give en-mass realization, then only you could be a guru. If you

> > > > can give en-mass realization, then you could be a guru.

> > > >

> > > > You can use my photograph, but the realization should not be from

> > > > the photograph, but from you. Then only you can be a guru. & #65533;

> > (end)

> > > >

> > > > So Michalis, Self-realization should come from you and not the

> > > > photograph. It is absurd to think that the photograph, not the Adi

> > > > Shakti/Holy Spirit/Mother Kundalini within, confers

> Self-realization.

> > > > Most SYs think just like you because of the SYSSR.

> > > >

> > > > So how can the realization come from you, not the photograph?

Before

> > > > continuing let me tell you that realizing the Self is a long,

long,

> > > > long process. It took me a decade to accomplish it .... and

help me

> > > > attain 2% enlightenment. Except for kundalini awakening and

> > > > establishing the Cool Breeze the SYSSR has little to do with Self-

> > > > realization.

> > > >

> > > > So how can the realization of Self come from you, not the

> photograph?

> > > >

> > > > Related Articles:

> > > > Jesus: " God is spirit, and those who worship him ... "

> > > > Self as Spirit: & #65533;Jesus answered them ... "

> > > > Who am I - Deepak Chopra

> > > > Silence Is God's First Language

> > > > Theosis is a state akin to 'enlightenment'

> > > > Look deep within

> > > > God (Brahman) exists in every living being

> > > > Aim of being reborn known to almost every religion

> > > > All Holy Scriptures uphold the Self as Spirit, for Self is God

> > > > Allâh is " closer to him (the human) than [his] jugular vein. "

> > > > Yoga and Meditation (Dhyana) by Georg Feuerstein

> > > > Has Yoga strayed from its core?

> > > > Yoga is an art of living and not a religious practice

> > > > A Christian practicing sahaja yoga meditation

> > > > Shri Mataji: " Achieve your Self, become your Self. "

> > > > Shri Mataji: " But this Judgment is so beautiful. "

> > > > Shri Mataji: " What Christ said ... is nothing but Advaita. "

> > > > On being liberated from the dualities of pleasure and pain

> > > > Yoga Methods in Christian Mysticism

> > > > Shri Mataji: " The ultimate act against the Spirit ... "

> > > > Shri Mataji: " Self-Realization will lead to creation of a new

race "

> > > > Each religion springs from a profound experience of the Spirit

> > > > This new mode of being and consciousness is the ...

> > > > For if you walk on this road, it is impossible to go astray

> > > > Mystic & #65533;s discovery of higher Self is only a step on a

> > greater journey

> > > > For the mystics, Jesus was a living embodiment of union with God

> > > > Gnosis essentially is act of distinguishing soul from deepest self

> > > > People who have never even glimpsed the realm of the sacred

> > > > Eckhart Tolle's Teachings and Self-realization are in perfect

> harmony

> > > > Eckhart Tolle's Stillness Speaks and T. A. are in perfect harmony

> > > > What and where is Self/Brahman/God/Being ...?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

http://www.adishakti.org/forum/jesus_god_is_spirit_and_those_who_worship_him_mus\

t_worship_in_spirit_and_truth_10-22-2007.htm

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > But She also said that we should have Her photograph whenever we

> > > > > have meetings, and also use it for puja till we are gurus

and make

> > > > > enough Sahaja Yogis. I think Her words were " You don't

cancel Me " .

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > But Michalis, having Her photo for meetings and puja is not

the same

> > > > as & #65533;the realization should not be from the photograph,

> but from

> > > > you & #65533;. i have never said that we should not use Her

> > photograph for

> > > > meetings and puja because that is required. Shri Mataji is

> telling us

> > > > that we use the photograph for public meetings BUT the Self-

> > > > realization must still come from you and your powers. Yet

again She

> > > > emphasizes this important distinction between Her photograph and

> > > > realizing of the Self, which the photo cannot enlighten

> > & #65533; & #65533;. all the

> > > > more since the seekers know so little! (How much did you know

in the

> > > > beginning Michalis, the irony being that you still have not

realized

> > > > your Self despite years practising the SYSSR?)

> > > >

> > > > & #65533;To begin with you can use my photograph, but latter on,

> > you can

> > > > only put the photograph there but use your own powers and give

> > > > realization. You can do it, and that is how we can spread Sahaja

> > > > Yoga all over the world. I have done my level best now, but I

don't

> > > > think now I can travel anymore. So I am telling you that you

have to

> > > > take over, and work it out. That doesn't mean you cancel Me

& #65533;

> > > > no, not at all! I am there with you. And every place you work

> you put

> > > > my photograph. But realization you have to give and try to

give mass

> > > > realization. If that doesn't work out then you should know

that you

> > > > are not a guru. If you can give mass realization, then only you

> are a

> > > > guru. Otherwise you are not. & #65533; (end)

> > > >

> > > > But it is indeed impossible to explain anything without Shri

Mataji,

> > > > and by that i mean Her all-encompassing advent and message of the

> > > > Blossom Time. More than three decades of enlightenment are

> > > > indispensable in triggering the General Resurrection. Without Her

> > > > quotes it is impossible to do anything. And seekers have to

see how

> > > > the incarnation of the Adi Shakti, how the Comforter looks

like? So

> > > > how can anyone of us ever cancel Her?

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Of course She is inside, but as She says what is inside is also

> > > > > outside. The embodiment of such a Divine Force is not to be

> > > > > disregarded.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > She is 1% outside and 99% inside. After Shri Mataji & #65533;s

> > Mahasamadhi She

> > > > will be 100% inside. Where are SYs going to look for Her then?

......

> > > > in Her photograph? Why do i keep insisting that time is on Her

side,

> > > > and ours too?

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > She also said that we can tell the seekers about Her if

necessary.

> > > > > Not to go out and start yelling " The Comforter has come!! " . She

> > > > > gives us complete freedom as to how to approach the seekers,

> we can

> > > > > either tell them about Her nature immediately, or wait and

see (as

> > > > > She Herself used to do).

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > SYs have been waiting forever to announce the Comforter & #65533;s

> > advent and

> > > > message to humanity. Unlike them, Shri Mataji has always been

honest

> > > > and upfront to the public about the Last Judgment. That is why

> > > > despite three decades 99.99% of humanity neither knows nor will be

> > > > interested in the SYSSR. And with Shri Mataji retiring the sun

will,

> > > > without question, set on the SYSSR.

> > > >

> > > > But She has given us complete freedom to form our own

organizations

> > > > and spread Her advent and message to humanity. Only fools will

> go out

> > > > and start yelling & #65533;The Comforter has come!! & #65533;

> > Intelligent people will

> > > > only need to give seekers links to http://www.adishakti.org

.........

> > > > before or after triggering their spiritual birth by the Spirit

> > > > (kundalini awakening). Then these seekers can spend months/years

> > > > realizing their Self as they take part in the Resurrection.

That is

> > > > how en masse realization will work out Michalis!

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > These are just my thoughts, a bit more matured compared to the

> last

> > > > > time i posted here, not necessarily due to footsoaking or WCASY

> > > > > approved treatments but due to collectivity and spreading of

> Sahaja

> > > > > Yoga...

> > > > >

> > > > > love, michalis

> > > > >

> > > > > JSM

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You have matured Michalis but still have a long way to realize

your

> > > > Self, and the knowledge required for just that. All the

footsoaks or

> > > > WCASY approved treatments will never bring you any closer. On the

> > > > contrary, you will only drift away and stagnate. Period!

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > jagbir

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello, again, Violet,

 

Please accept my flaw for responding even when common sense tells

otherwise. This is what i am doing right now, contradicting my

previous post, only by delaying the actualization of my statement by

one single post.

 

I saw ignorance when a new and experiencedless Sahaja Yogi (me) asked

for instruction on very simple Sahaja Yoga teachniques, taught by Shri

Mataji, was called rituallistic and treated with bad manners indeed.

I see ignorance when after so many years you cannot realize that

whatever Shri Mataji has said is for the benevolence of all of us, the

" mundane " technuiqes and footsoak. It is simply an act of ego to think

that those baser things are not for you but lesser Sahaja Yogis with

no real depth. I have seen many such examples, expressed in

sophisticated rituals and pujas, not meant for simple Sahaja Yogis,

and extreme seeking of ancient knowledge which automatically gives a

noble title to the one that teaches it.

 

I saw arrogance when i heard Jagbir saying that he only, and those who

follow his lead, are and can be good Sahaja Yogis in the real sense.

It is egoistical, and could be used as an example in a Sahaj-dictionary.

I see arrogance when Jagbir (and not only) tries to make Shri Mataji's

latest speech all about himself and his methods, and in his desperate

attempts to accuse the WCASY or the Sahaja Yoga system only because

they don't share his opinion.

 

I saw and see bad manners not in the content so much, but in the way

you and Jagbir express yourselves. If constructive criticism is OK

with you, accept my hummble comment that right Vishuddhi is not all

right in those cases, and some basic Sahaja Yoga techniques could be

applied, as so wisely adviced by Shri Mataji.

 

Regarding the part of my post that i have not expressed myself

effectively, thus you didnt understand me: i could choose a quote of

Shri Mataji and try to present it to you in such a way that my

criticism would make sense. But i didnt and for that you, Jagbir and

some others are to be thanked because your examples hold me from doing it.

 

As for my statement that what you said is untrue, i will not

elaborate. If you find it so shocking that your accusations and praise

of Jagbir found someone in the entire universe that thinks they are

false, then you had better forget i ever said that.

 

Finally, everyone of your posts is abusing, simply because you, fully

conciously, choose not to " understand " what i'm trying to say and

stick on judging my growth and praising Jagbir. When i try to discuss

and what i find is solid fanatical wall, i feel slightly abused.

 

I hope this is my last post in this forum, and i beg you not to ask

for any more, as you can see it is difficult for me to resist.

 

Love, mike

 

JSM

 

, " Violet " <violetubb

wrote:

>

> Michalis,

>

> > Hello Violet,

> >

> > Please re-read my initial post. In there i did not criticize or

> > judged anyone. Jagbir on the other hand, instead of trying to start

> > a constructive dialogue, he started a not so constructive criticism.

> > Sahaja Yoga is against -ism's. Of course i replied back, because i

> > simply could not act differently. This is one of my main flaws, and

> > instead of interpreting Shri Mataji's words according to my comfort,

> > i prefer to say it clearly.

>

> Michalis, i did not even have to read your initial post. i could

tell from Jagbir's response that he had gone to the heart of the

matter. Jagbir does not constructively criticize without good reason.

That i know. Sahaja Yoga is not against constructive criticism - even

if it ends in an " ism " . To reply to a post is not a flaw. i don't

understand what you mean, when you say: " Instead of interpreting Shri

Mataji's words according to my comfort, i prefer to say it clearly " .

That just does not make sense. In oneness, there is both comfort and

clarity and they go together like a horse and carriage, not separated.

>

>

> > Anything you said could be true. Evry single word. But they are not.

> > The reason is because Jagbir is not the person he commercializes

> > himself to be. I am sorry, but coming back two years after my last

> > participation in your discussions, i see no difference in his (and

> > yours as it turns out) bad manners against anyone who has a

> > different opinion.

>

> If you are suggesting that what i have said is not true, it is only

courteous and honest to say which part, so that i can respond to that.

As far as i know, i have said what is true. You can't just accuse

blindly, without substantiating it, Michalis. Jagbir does not

commercialize himself to be what he is. He just is what he is. Again,

you destructively criticize Jagbir, Michalis. What you call 'bad

manners' is just saying the truth. It is 'bad manners' of you to ask

Jagbir to accept your opinion - because Sahaja Yoga is never about

accepting someone's opinion.

>

>

> > I took up Sahaja Yoga because of the Love that Shri Mataji was

> > emmitting and also insiring, and i will, permanently this time,

> > leave your discussion list for the arogance, ignorance, and bad

> > manners you and Jagbir emmitt and also the aggressivenes that your

> > abusive posts inspire.

>

> You are the only person that has ever accused me of being arrogant,

ignorant, and with bad manners. i can assure you that all my family

and friends would be shocked of anyone saying that of myself. Again,

Michalis, please tell me: " How have i been so-called abusive to you? "

Please give evidence of your accusation before you hang, draw, and

quarter me.

>

>

> > Thank you for taking the time to read my post, even superficially,

> > and replying to me. I can only wish that true seekers will see the

> > hypocricy and the self-centerdness that encircles your posts.

> >

> > Love, mike

> >

> > JSM

>

> i did not read your post superficially, but in depth, and responded

to it, truthfully. True seekers love this site and have many times

thanked Jagbir, others and myself for the work that is being done.

>

> regards,

>

> violet

>

>

>

> > , " Violet " <violetubb@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > , " michalis_9 "

> > > <michalis_9@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Dear Jagbir,

> > > >

> > > > I'm in no position to declare anyone (let alone myself) as

> > > > Self-Realized or not. All i'm interested in is constructive

dialogue

> > > > on spiritual matters, not to judge anyone or criticize out of the

> > > > blue, as was asked by our Mother in Her latest speech. Therefore i

> > > > find your comments on my (or anyone's for that matter)

maturity and

> > > > Self-Realization inappropriate as well as anti-Sahaj.

> > >

> > > Dear Michalis,

> > >

> > > You say that " I'm in no position to declare anyone (let alone

> > myself) as Self-Realised. If you are suggesting that Jagbir has said

> > the wrong thing - then you are in the wrong, yourself. Aside from

> > that, a person that is Self-Realised knows it without a doubt, because

> > of their absolute knowledge/gnosis within. They have the oneness

> > instead of the duality - which is why they can be so confident as to

> > the truth of a matter. In regards to your statement that: " All i'm

> > interested in is constructive dialogue on spiritual matters " ------- i

> > know you're going to consider me unloving, unSahaj and anti-Sahaj for

> > telling you this, but until you reduce your ego a wee teensy bit, you

> > won't be able to have truly constructive dialogue on spiritual matters

> > - not even with your own Spirit within.

> > >

> > > You say you are not interested in judging and criticising anyone,

> > yet you judge and criticize Jagbir. You also expect him to accept your

> > opinion when he knew it was not a correct opinion based on the

> > absolute knowledge within. He humbly explained that in the light of

> > his Spirit. True humility is to be strong, not a pansy, not a

> > washover, but to be able to stand up and say the truth - regardless of

> > others opinions surrounding the truth, which [opinions] are not the

> > same as the truth itself. When Shri Mataji is talking about not

> > criticizing someone, She is talking about destructive criticism that

> > tears a person down. She is not talking about constructive criticism.

> > Shri Mataji gave constructive criticism all the time and that' show we

> > learned so much from Her. What Jagbir told you was constructive

> > criticism, for your spiritual benevolence, but maybe you don't realise

> > that.

> > >

> > >

> > > > Given the fact that you mostly base your statements on Shri

Mataji's

> > > > own quotes, it is natural that you are mostly correct.

Nevertheless

> > > > your way of expressing your views and the lack of sweetness and

> > > > humility in your words indicate a person knowledgable, yet

naive in

> > > > understanding.

> > >

> > > " Given the fact that you [Jagbir] mostly base your statements on

> > Shri Mataji's own quotes " ------------- is not the reason why " you are

> > mostly correct " . The reason why Jagbir is " mostly correct " is because

> > of his inner spiritual knowledge, also called the absolute truth, also

> > called gnosis; oneness. It is " oneness " and not duality that makes

> > Jagbir " mostly correct " . For example, you also quoted Shri Mataji's

> > own quotes, yet misunderstood those quotes. So it is not a given that

> > just because " you mostly base your statements on Shri Mataji's own

> > quotes " that a person is going to be " mostly correct " . But it does

> > help. But that is exactly where the inner spiritual knowledge is so

> > very, very essential. Otherwise things are misunderstood and

> > misinterpreted and what you get eventually is like the SYSSR that in

> > the end results in actually going against the truth that Shri Mataji

> gave.

> > >

> > > In the first paragraph, Michalis you say that you want to have a

> > constructive dialogue. i can assure you that this statement is

> > definitely not " constructive dialogue " :

> > >

> > > " Nevertheless your way of expressing your views and the lack of

> > sweetness and humility in your words indicate a person knowledgable,

> > yet naive in understanding. "

> > >

> > > Here, against your own wishes, you destructively criticize for the

> > following:

> > >

> > > 1. " your way of expressing your views "

> > >

> > > 2. " the lack of sweetness and humility "

> > >

> > > 3. " knowledgeable, yet naive in understanding "

> > >

> > > Michalis, please take up a mirror, and see yourself, because that is

> > definitely not Jagbir. Besides what is wrong with [1] " your way of

> > expressing your views " ? i certainly don't understand that one! But i

> > have to say - your way of expressing your views in this; your email to

> > Jagbir, leaves a lot to be desired.

> > >

> > >

> > > > However, it was interesting to see that in order to casually pass

> > > > judgemenet on someone else you mentioned a discussion we had some

> > > > time back. Let me quote you from the link you yourself provided:

> > > >

> > > > " Michalis, you asked me whether i " go along with Shri Mataji's

> > > > teachings or you differentiate when you think it is proper. " i go

> > > > along with Shri Mataji's teachings and enlighten when i think

it is

> > > > proper. "

> > >

> > > Michalis, you passed judgment on Jagbir's spiritual integrity, which

> > is apparent here:

> > >

> > > > " Michalis, you asked me whether i " go along with Shri Mataji's

> > > > teachings or you differentiate when you think it is proper. " i go

> > > > along with Shri Mataji's teachings and enlighten when i think

it is

> > > > proper. "

> > >

> > > Jagbir gave you a good and proper answer that " I go along with Shri

> > Mataji's teachings and enlighten when i think it is proper " . See,

> > Jagbir is not as you described, Point 3: " knowledgeable, yet naive in

> > understanding " . He is very 'understanding' of your judgment of him,

> > which is why he brought up 'your issue' (not his issue) ------ because

> > that issue is still not resolved within you. It is still there. And it

> > is a destructive criticism. And you must stop that now, because it is

> > not achieving anything. Especially, it is hurting your Spirit and not

> > good for your spiritual ascent.

> > >

> > >

> > > > You also said it would take me weeks or even months to understand

> > > > this statement. Well it's been years, and i still haven't. If

there

> > > > is any meening other than the fact that you just choose to

> > > > " enlighten " Shri Mataji's instructions, the ones that you don't

> > > > understand, i admitt i'm blind to it. Please take some time to

> > > > realise that you'll light up the Sun way before you'll enlighten

> > > > Shri Mataji's words. Not just you of course, any of us!

> > >

> > > [Michalis, others including myself do understand Jagbir's statement.

> > i wish you could understand it too. It is very simple really - based

> > on the knowledge within. There are only two things that keep people

> > away from the knowledge within - ego and conditionings. But that can

> > be taken care of. Your saying that " i'm blind to it " confirms that the

> > ego is standing in the way. It is the ego that does the 'blinding'.

> > Once that subsides, you will understand the inner spiritual meaning,

> > the inner spiritual understanding. But that also takes humility.

> > Saying that: " Please take some time to realise that you'll light up

> > the Sun way before you'll enlighten Shri Mataji's words " is not

> > exactly the 'kind of humility' i am suggesting for your spiritual

> health.

> > >

> > >

> > > > regarding the use for Her photograph, i totally agree with you and

> > > > this is what happens in Sahaja Yoga. Shri Mataji's photograph is

> > > > just there. As simple as that.

> > >

> > > It is nice to have Her photograph there, which gives focus and

> > strength. But the realisation has to come from ourselves. It's just as

> > well that Shri Mataji clarified this, otherwise you would continue to

> > argue this as you did with Jagbir ------- because you still did not

> > understand, even when Shri Mataji said it in black and white, that:

> > " realisation has to come from ourselves " . So i think you should be

> > grateful to Jagbir for clarifying this with you. Don't you agree too?

> > >

> > >

> > > > It would be nice if someone with your knowledge was helping

with the

> > > > spreading of Shri Mataji's message. It is common that extremely

> > > > knowledgable people go to extremes and miss the essence, the

core of

> > > > the Divine Teachings. Adishakti.org is a source of knowledge, not

> > > > the path. Too much vidya turns into a-vidya if you don't

decorate it

> > > > with your humility. It is important that you do that. Not just

> > > > trying to show off your knowledge and your so called exposures on

> > > > the WCASY and mainstream Sahaja Yogis. The only way, the path, is

> > > > simple meeditation and participation in the collective, at least

> > > > according to Her " unenlightened " instructions.

> > > >

> > > > Lots of love,

> > > > michalis

> > > >

> > > > JSM

> > >

> > >

> > > Michalis, you have a way of bunching everything into a " state of no

> > meaning " . Firstly, Jagbir " is " using his knowledge (gnosis) to spread

> > the Divine Message of Shri Mataji - and not the SYSSR of WCASY. If

> > Jagbir had all the knowledge in the world, but not the gnosis, all

> > that knowledge would avail him and others, nothing. This knowledge

> > (gnosis) is not an " extreme knowledge " as you describe it. It is an

> > inner, balanced, integrated spiritual knowledge. The path can only

> > ever be within a person themselves. Adishakti.org is the knowledge

> > that enables/encourages/instructs people to that path within.

> > >

> > > Michalis, you say that:

> > >

> > > " Too much vidya turns into a-vidya if you don't decorate it with

> > your humility. It is important that you do that. "

> > >

> > > Michalis, you are probably one of the most incredible people i have

> > read on this forum - who either talks about himself in big ways, or

> > alternatively talks against Jagbir. i don't exactly see any humility

> > in that. Maybe, you should preach this sermon to yourself first,

> > before giving it to others - don't you think? Besides, Jagbir is not

> > as you say " showing off his knowledge " - but you are definitely

> > showing off your ignorance.

> > >

> > >

> > > " The only way, the path, is simple meeditation and participation in

> > the collective, at least according to Her " unenlightened "

instructions " .

> > >

> > > It takes more than simple meditation, Michalis. It takes facing

> > yourself, in introspection. With regard to collectivity, Shri Mataji

> > described that to be " where there is no other " (ananya), which is a

> > state of collectivity, rather than a location of collectivity. The

> > fact that Shri Mataji said that one person can be in one country and

> > another in another country and still be collective, shows that Shri

> > Mataji is not just talking about a local, physically present

> > collective. Shri Mataji is now asking SYs to split up into groups of

> > 4-5 or whatever. With your externally focussed way of looking at

> > things, you could be thinking that Shri Mataji is splitting up the

> > collective, when She is not.

> > >

> > > Maybe you still have a bit more maturing to do, i think.

> > >

> > > regards,

> > >

> > > violet

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > , " jagbir singh "

> > > > <adishakti_org@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > , " michalis_9 "

> > > > <michalis_9@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hello Jagbir and group members,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I haven't posted for a long long time but i was visiting

> from time

> > > > > > to time and i hope you will accept my humble opinion on

> using Shri

> > > > > > Mataji's photograph:

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You are welcome Michalis. The last time we exchanged emails

> you were

> > > > > quite agitated that i referred to Shri Mataji as a mere

> incarnation:

> > > > >

> > > > > " I agree with you that it is the Spirit within that matters

> but you

> > > > > exaggerate about Mother. She is nothing close to " mere " . Can

I ask

> > > > > you when She said She is not doing anything? I know She's said

> > > > > that She works even during Her sleep. That She absorbs all our

> > > > > negativity, and Her attention is on us when we do puja. As

far as

> > > > > I'm concerned we are lucky to have Her with us and claiming

She is

> > > > > a mere incarnation does Her disservice. Moreover I've read talks

> > > > > where she wants us to use Her photo, even wear badges...

What are

> > > > > you talking about.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please state whether you go along with Shri Mataji's

teachings or

> > > > > you differentiate when you think it is proper.

> > > > >

> > > > > Regards, Michalis "

> > > > >

> > > > > /message/8502

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Clearly She has said in Her latest talk that the realization

> > should

> > > > > > come from us and not from the photograph. This means that

we are

> > > > > > supposed to use it, not to cling on it.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You have again misunderstood Her. Let me refresh you with

Her 2008

> > > > > Guru Puja talk:

> > > > >

> > > > > & #65533;And so many of you can be, but you have to attain first,

> > > `Are you

> > > > > capable of being a guru or not?' With humbleness you will

> > > > > understand. Those who think they can be guru should become

gurus,

> > > > > because now I can't travel from places to places. And you have

> to do

> > > > > my job, is to give realization to people. But you have to be

able

> > > > > to give en-mass realization, then only you could be a guru.

If you

> > > > > can give en-mass realization, then you could be a guru.

> > > > >

> > > > > You can use my photograph, but the realization should not be

from

> > > > > the photograph, but from you. Then only you can be a

guru. & #65533;

> > > (end)

> > > > >

> > > > > So Michalis, Self-realization should come from you and not the

> > > > > photograph. It is absurd to think that the photograph, not

the Adi

> > > > > Shakti/Holy Spirit/Mother Kundalini within, confers

> > Self-realization.

> > > > > Most SYs think just like you because of the SYSSR.

> > > > >

> > > > > So how can the realization come from you, not the photograph?

> Before

> > > > > continuing let me tell you that realizing the Self is a long,

> long,

> > > > > long process. It took me a decade to accomplish it .... and

> help me

> > > > > attain 2% enlightenment. Except for kundalini awakening and

> > > > > establishing the Cool Breeze the SYSSR has little to do with

Self-

> > > > > realization.

> > > > >

> > > > > So how can the realization of Self come from you, not the

> > photograph?

> > > > >

> > > > > Related Articles:

> > > > > Jesus: " God is spirit, and those who worship him ... "

> > > > > Self as Spirit: & #65533;Jesus answered them ... "

> > > > > Who am I - Deepak Chopra

> > > > > Silence Is God's First Language

> > > > > Theosis is a state akin to 'enlightenment'

> > > > > Look deep within

> > > > > God (Brahman) exists in every living being

> > > > > Aim of being reborn known to almost every religion

> > > > > All Holy Scriptures uphold the Self as Spirit, for Self is God

> > > > > Allâh is " closer to him (the human) than [his] jugular vein. "

> > > > > Yoga and Meditation (Dhyana) by Georg Feuerstein

> > > > > Has Yoga strayed from its core?

> > > > > Yoga is an art of living and not a religious practice

> > > > > A Christian practicing sahaja yoga meditation

> > > > > Shri Mataji: " Achieve your Self, become your Self. "

> > > > > Shri Mataji: " But this Judgment is so beautiful. "

> > > > > Shri Mataji: " What Christ said ... is nothing but Advaita. "

> > > > > On being liberated from the dualities of pleasure and pain

> > > > > Yoga Methods in Christian Mysticism

> > > > > Shri Mataji: " The ultimate act against the Spirit ... "

> > > > > Shri Mataji: " Self-Realization will lead to creation of a new

> race "

> > > > > Each religion springs from a profound experience of the Spirit

> > > > > This new mode of being and consciousness is the ...

> > > > > For if you walk on this road, it is impossible to go astray

> > > > > Mystic & #65533;s discovery of higher Self is only a step on a

> > > greater journey

> > > > > For the mystics, Jesus was a living embodiment of union with God

> > > > > Gnosis essentially is act of distinguishing soul from

deepest self

> > > > > People who have never even glimpsed the realm of the sacred

> > > > > Eckhart Tolle's Teachings and Self-realization are in perfect

> > harmony

> > > > > Eckhart Tolle's Stillness Speaks and T. A. are in perfect

harmony

> > > > > What and where is Self/Brahman/God/Being ...?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

http://www.adishakti.org/forum/jesus_god_is_spirit_and_those_who_worship_him_mus\

t_worship_in_spirit_and_truth_10-22-2007.htm

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But She also said that we should have Her photograph

whenever we

> > > > > > have meetings, and also use it for puja till we are gurus

> and make

> > > > > > enough Sahaja Yogis. I think Her words were " You don't

> cancel Me " .

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > But Michalis, having Her photo for meetings and puja is not

> the same

> > > > > as & #65533;the realization should not be from the photograph,

> > but from

> > > > > you & #65533;. i have never said that we should not use Her

> > > photograph for

> > > > > meetings and puja because that is required. Shri Mataji is

> > telling us

> > > > > that we use the photograph for public meetings BUT the Self-

> > > > > realization must still come from you and your powers. Yet

> again She

> > > > > emphasizes this important distinction between Her photograph and

> > > > > realizing of the Self, which the photo cannot enlighten

> > > & #65533; & #65533;. all the

> > > > > more since the seekers know so little! (How much did you know

> in the

> > > > > beginning Michalis, the irony being that you still have not

> realized

> > > > > your Self despite years practising the SYSSR?)

> > > > >

> > > > > & #65533;To begin with you can use my photograph, but latter on,

> > > you can

> > > > > only put the photograph there but use your own powers and give

> > > > > realization. You can do it, and that is how we can spread Sahaja

> > > > > Yoga all over the world. I have done my level best now, but I

> don't

> > > > > think now I can travel anymore. So I am telling you that you

> have to

> > > > > take over, and work it out. That doesn't mean you cancel Me

> & #65533;

> > > > > no, not at all! I am there with you. And every place you work

> > you put

> > > > > my photograph. But realization you have to give and try to

> give mass

> > > > > realization. If that doesn't work out then you should know

> that you

> > > > > are not a guru. If you can give mass realization, then only you

> > are a

> > > > > guru. Otherwise you are not. & #65533; (end)

> > > > >

> > > > > But it is indeed impossible to explain anything without Shri

> Mataji,

> > > > > and by that i mean Her all-encompassing advent and message

of the

> > > > > Blossom Time. More than three decades of enlightenment are

> > > > > indispensable in triggering the General Resurrection.

Without Her

> > > > > quotes it is impossible to do anything. And seekers have to

> see how

> > > > > the incarnation of the Adi Shakti, how the Comforter looks

> like? So

> > > > > how can anyone of us ever cancel Her?

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Of course She is inside, but as She says what is inside is

also

> > > > > > outside. The embodiment of such a Divine Force is not to be

> > > > > > disregarded.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > She is 1% outside and 99% inside. After Shri Mataji & #65533;s

> > > Mahasamadhi She

> > > > > will be 100% inside. Where are SYs going to look for Her then?

> .....

> > > > > in Her photograph? Why do i keep insisting that time is on Her

> side,

> > > > > and ours too?

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > She also said that we can tell the seekers about Her if

> necessary.

> > > > > > Not to go out and start yelling " The Comforter has

come!! " . She

> > > > > > gives us complete freedom as to how to approach the seekers,

> > we can

> > > > > > either tell them about Her nature immediately, or wait and

> see (as

> > > > > > She Herself used to do).

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > SYs have been waiting forever to announce the Comforter & #65533;s

> > > advent and

> > > > > message to humanity. Unlike them, Shri Mataji has always been

> honest

> > > > > and upfront to the public about the Last Judgment. That is why

> > > > > despite three decades 99.99% of humanity neither knows nor

will be

> > > > > interested in the SYSSR. And with Shri Mataji retiring the sun

> will,

> > > > > without question, set on the SYSSR.

> > > > >

> > > > > But She has given us complete freedom to form our own

> organizations

> > > > > and spread Her advent and message to humanity. Only fools will

> > go out

> > > > > and start yelling & #65533;The Comforter has come!! & #65533;

> > > Intelligent people will

> > > > > only need to give seekers links to http://www.adishakti.org

> ........

> > > > > before or after triggering their spiritual birth by the Spirit

> > > > > (kundalini awakening). Then these seekers can spend months/years

> > > > > realizing their Self as they take part in the Resurrection.

> That is

> > > > > how en masse realization will work out Michalis!

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > These are just my thoughts, a bit more matured compared to the

> > last

> > > > > > time i posted here, not necessarily due to footsoaking or

WCASY

> > > > > > approved treatments but due to collectivity and spreading of

> > Sahaja

> > > > > > Yoga...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > love, michalis

> > > > > >

> > > > > > JSM

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You have matured Michalis but still have a long way to realize

> your

> > > > > Self, and the knowledge required for just that. All the

> footsoaks or

> > > > > WCASY approved treatments will never bring you any closer.

On the

> > > > > contrary, you will only drift away and stagnate. Period!

> > > > >

> > > > > regards,

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > jagbir

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Michalis,

 

Simply, please do as you want to do, and go away. People should not be subjected

to your spiritual ignorance, which will only send them backwards. It is not nice

to put words into people's mouths which they never said - and then sign off in

love. As for me, i will not be approving anymore of your abusive posts. i think

you have abused this forum enough.

 

violet

 

 

, " michalis_9 "

<michalis_9 wrote:

>

> Hello, again, Violet,

>

> Please accept my flaw for responding even when common sense tells

> otherwise. This is what i am doing right now, contradicting my

> previous post, only by delaying the actualization of my statement by

> one single post.

>

> I saw ignorance when a new and experiencedless Sahaja Yogi (me) asked

> for instruction on very simple Sahaja Yoga teachniques, taught by Shri

> Mataji, was called rituallistic and treated with bad manners indeed.

> I see ignorance when after so many years you cannot realize that

> whatever Shri Mataji has said is for the benevolence of all of us, the

> " mundane " technuiqes and footsoak. It is simply an act of ego to think

> that those baser things are not for you but lesser Sahaja Yogis with

> no real depth. I have seen many such examples, expressed in

> sophisticated rituals and pujas, not meant for simple Sahaja Yogis,

> and extreme seeking of ancient knowledge which automatically gives a

> noble title to the one that teaches it.

>

> I saw arrogance when i heard Jagbir saying that he only, and those who

> follow his lead, are and can be good Sahaja Yogis in the real sense.

> It is egoistical, and could be used as an example in a Sahaj-dictionary.

> I see arrogance when Jagbir (and not only) tries to make Shri Mataji's

> latest speech all about himself and his methods, and in his desperate

> attempts to accuse the WCASY or the Sahaja Yoga system only because

> they don't share his opinion.

>

> I saw and see bad manners not in the content so much, but in the way

> you and Jagbir express yourselves. If constructive criticism is OK

> with you, accept my hummble comment that right Vishuddhi is not all

> right in those cases, and some basic Sahaja Yoga techniques could be

> applied, as so wisely adviced by Shri Mataji.

>

> Regarding the part of my post that i have not expressed myself

> effectively, thus you didnt understand me: i could choose a quote of

> Shri Mataji and try to present it to you in such a way that my

> criticism would make sense. But i didnt and for that you, Jagbir and

> some others are to be thanked because your examples hold me from

doing it.

>

> As for my statement that what you said is untrue, i will not

> elaborate. If you find it so shocking that your accusations and praise

> of Jagbir found someone in the entire universe that thinks they are

> false, then you had better forget i ever said that.

>

> Finally, everyone of your posts is abusing, simply because you, fully

> conciously, choose not to " understand " what i'm trying to say and

> stick on judging my growth and praising Jagbir. When i try to discuss

> and what i find is solid fanatical wall, i feel slightly abused.

>

> I hope this is my last post in this forum, and i beg you not to ask

> for any more, as you can see it is difficult for me to resist.

>

> Love, mike

>

> JSM

>

> , " Violet " <violetubb@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Michalis,

> >

> > > Hello Violet,

> > >

> > > Please re-read my initial post. In there i did not criticize or

> > > judged anyone. Jagbir on the other hand, instead of trying to start

> > > a constructive dialogue, he started a not so constructive criticism.

> > > Sahaja Yoga is against -ism's. Of course i replied back, because i

> > > simply could not act differently. This is one of my main flaws, and

> > > instead of interpreting Shri Mataji's words according to my comfort,

> > > i prefer to say it clearly.

> >

> > Michalis, i did not even have to read your initial post. i could

> tell from Jagbir's response that he had gone to the heart of the

> matter. Jagbir does not constructively criticize without good reason.

> That i know. Sahaja Yoga is not against constructive criticism - even

> if it ends in an " ism " . To reply to a post is not a flaw. i don't

> understand what you mean, when you say: " Instead of interpreting Shri

> Mataji's words according to my comfort, i prefer to say it clearly " .

> That just does not make sense. In oneness, there is both comfort and

> clarity and they go together like a horse and carriage, not separated.

> >

> >

> > > Anything you said could be true. Evry single word. But they are not.

> > > The reason is because Jagbir is not the person he commercializes

> > > himself to be. I am sorry, but coming back two years after my last

> > > participation in your discussions, i see no difference in his (and

> > > yours as it turns out) bad manners against anyone who has a

> > > different opinion.

> >

> > If you are suggesting that what i have said is not true, it is only

> courteous and honest to say which part, so that i can respond to that.

> As far as i know, i have said what is true. You can't just accuse

> blindly, without substantiating it, Michalis. Jagbir does not

> commercialize himself to be what he is. He just is what he is. Again,

> you destructively criticize Jagbir, Michalis. What you call 'bad

> manners' is just saying the truth. It is 'bad manners' of you to ask

> Jagbir to accept your opinion - because Sahaja Yoga is never about

> accepting someone's opinion.

> >

> >

> > > I took up Sahaja Yoga because of the Love that Shri Mataji was

> > > emmitting and also insiring, and i will, permanently this time,

> > > leave your discussion list for the arogance, ignorance, and bad

> > > manners you and Jagbir emmitt and also the aggressivenes that your

> > > abusive posts inspire.

> >

> > You are the only person that has ever accused me of being arrogant,

> ignorant, and with bad manners. i can assure you that all my family

> and friends would be shocked of anyone saying that of myself. Again,

> Michalis, please tell me: " How have i been so-called abusive to you? "

> Please give evidence of your accusation before you hang, draw, and

> quarter me.

> >

> >

> > > Thank you for taking the time to read my post, even superficially,

> > > and replying to me. I can only wish that true seekers will see the

> > > hypocricy and the self-centerdness that encircles your posts.

> > >

> > > Love, mike

> > >

> > > JSM

> >

> > i did not read your post superficially, but in depth, and responded

> to it, truthfully. True seekers love this site and have many times

> thanked Jagbir, others and myself for the work that is being done.

> >

> > regards,

> >

> > violet

> >

> >

> >

> > > , " Violet " <violetubb@>

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > , " michalis_9 "

> > > > <michalis_9@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Jagbir,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm in no position to declare anyone (let alone myself) as

> > > > > Self-Realized or not. All i'm interested in is constructive

> dialogue

> > > > > on spiritual matters, not to judge anyone or criticize out

of the

> > > > > blue, as was asked by our Mother in Her latest speech.

Therefore i

> > > > > find your comments on my (or anyone's for that matter)

> maturity and

> > > > > Self-Realization inappropriate as well as anti-Sahaj.

> > > >

> > > > Dear Michalis,

> > > >

> > > > You say that " I'm in no position to declare anyone (let alone

> > > myself) as Self-Realised. If you are suggesting that Jagbir has said

> > > the wrong thing - then you are in the wrong, yourself. Aside from

> > > that, a person that is Self-Realised knows it without a doubt,

because

> > > of their absolute knowledge/gnosis within. They have the oneness

> > > instead of the duality - which is why they can be so confident as to

> > > the truth of a matter. In regards to your statement that: " All i'm

> > > interested in is constructive dialogue on spiritual matters "

------- i

> > > know you're going to consider me unloving, unSahaj and

anti-Sahaj for

> > > telling you this, but until you reduce your ego a wee teensy

bit, you

> > > won't be able to have truly constructive dialogue on spiritual

matters

> > > - not even with your own Spirit within.

> > > >

> > > > You say you are not interested in judging and criticising anyone,

> > > yet you judge and criticize Jagbir. You also expect him to

accept your

> > > opinion when he knew it was not a correct opinion based on the

> > > absolute knowledge within. He humbly explained that in the light of

> > > his Spirit. True humility is to be strong, not a pansy, not a

> > > washover, but to be able to stand up and say the truth -

regardless of

> > > others opinions surrounding the truth, which [opinions] are not the

> > > same as the truth itself. When Shri Mataji is talking about not

> > > criticizing someone, She is talking about destructive criticism that

> > > tears a person down. She is not talking about constructive

criticism.

> > > Shri Mataji gave constructive criticism all the time and that'

show we

> > > learned so much from Her. What Jagbir told you was constructive

> > > criticism, for your spiritual benevolence, but maybe you don't

realise

> > > that.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Given the fact that you mostly base your statements on Shri

> Mataji's

> > > > > own quotes, it is natural that you are mostly correct.

> Nevertheless

> > > > > your way of expressing your views and the lack of sweetness and

> > > > > humility in your words indicate a person knowledgable, yet

> naive in

> > > > > understanding.

> > > >

> > > > " Given the fact that you [Jagbir] mostly base your statements on

> > > Shri Mataji's own quotes " ------------- is not the reason why

" you are

> > > mostly correct " . The reason why Jagbir is " mostly correct " is

because

> > > of his inner spiritual knowledge, also called the absolute

truth, also

> > > called gnosis; oneness. It is " oneness " and not duality that makes

> > > Jagbir " mostly correct " . For example, you also quoted Shri Mataji's

> > > own quotes, yet misunderstood those quotes. So it is not a given

that

> > > just because " you mostly base your statements on Shri Mataji's own

> > > quotes " that a person is going to be " mostly correct " . But it does

> > > help. But that is exactly where the inner spiritual knowledge is so

> > > very, very essential. Otherwise things are misunderstood and

> > > misinterpreted and what you get eventually is like the SYSSR that in

> > > the end results in actually going against the truth that Shri Mataji

> > gave.

> > > >

> > > > In the first paragraph, Michalis you say that you want to have a

> > > constructive dialogue. i can assure you that this statement is

> > > definitely not " constructive dialogue " :

> > > >

> > > > " Nevertheless your way of expressing your views and the lack of

> > > sweetness and humility in your words indicate a person knowledgable,

> > > yet naive in understanding. "

> > > >

> > > > Here, against your own wishes, you destructively criticize for the

> > > following:

> > > >

> > > > 1. " your way of expressing your views "

> > > >

> > > > 2. " the lack of sweetness and humility "

> > > >

> > > > 3. " knowledgeable, yet naive in understanding "

> > > >

> > > > Michalis, please take up a mirror, and see yourself, because

that is

> > > definitely not Jagbir. Besides what is wrong with [1] " your way of

> > > expressing your views " ? i certainly don't understand that one! But i

> > > have to say - your way of expressing your views in this; your

email to

> > > Jagbir, leaves a lot to be desired.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > However, it was interesting to see that in order to casually

pass

> > > > > judgemenet on someone else you mentioned a discussion we had

some

> > > > > time back. Let me quote you from the link you yourself provided:

> > > > >

> > > > > " Michalis, you asked me whether i " go along with Shri Mataji's

> > > > > teachings or you differentiate when you think it is proper. "

i go

> > > > > along with Shri Mataji's teachings and enlighten when i think

> it is

> > > > > proper. "

> > > >

> > > > Michalis, you passed judgment on Jagbir's spiritual integrity,

which

> > > is apparent here:

> > > >

> > > > > " Michalis, you asked me whether i " go along with Shri Mataji's

> > > > > teachings or you differentiate when you think it is proper. "

i go

> > > > > along with Shri Mataji's teachings and enlighten when i think

> it is

> > > > > proper. "

> > > >

> > > > Jagbir gave you a good and proper answer that " I go along with

Shri

> > > Mataji's teachings and enlighten when i think it is proper " . See,

> > > Jagbir is not as you described, Point 3: " knowledgeable, yet

naive in

> > > understanding " . He is very 'understanding' of your judgment of him,

> > > which is why he brought up 'your issue' (not his issue) ------

because

> > > that issue is still not resolved within you. It is still there.

And it

> > > is a destructive criticism. And you must stop that now, because

it is

> > > not achieving anything. Especially, it is hurting your Spirit

and not

> > > good for your spiritual ascent.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > You also said it would take me weeks or even months to

understand

> > > > > this statement. Well it's been years, and i still haven't. If

> there

> > > > > is any meening other than the fact that you just choose to

> > > > > " enlighten " Shri Mataji's instructions, the ones that you don't

> > > > > understand, i admitt i'm blind to it. Please take some time to

> > > > > realise that you'll light up the Sun way before you'll enlighten

> > > > > Shri Mataji's words. Not just you of course, any of us!

> > > >

> > > > [Michalis, others including myself do understand Jagbir's

statement.

> > > i wish you could understand it too. It is very simple really - based

> > > on the knowledge within. There are only two things that keep people

> > > away from the knowledge within - ego and conditionings. But that can

> > > be taken care of. Your saying that " i'm blind to it " confirms

that the

> > > ego is standing in the way. It is the ego that does the 'blinding'.

> > > Once that subsides, you will understand the inner spiritual meaning,

> > > the inner spiritual understanding. But that also takes humility.

> > > Saying that: " Please take some time to realise that you'll light up

> > > the Sun way before you'll enlighten Shri Mataji's words " is not

> > > exactly the 'kind of humility' i am suggesting for your spiritual

> > health.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > regarding the use for Her photograph, i totally agree with

you and

> > > > > this is what happens in Sahaja Yoga. Shri Mataji's photograph is

> > > > > just there. As simple as that.

> > > >

> > > > It is nice to have Her photograph there, which gives focus and

> > > strength. But the realisation has to come from ourselves. It's

just as

> > > well that Shri Mataji clarified this, otherwise you would

continue to

> > > argue this as you did with Jagbir ------- because you still did not

> > > understand, even when Shri Mataji said it in black and white, that:

> > > " realisation has to come from ourselves " . So i think you should be

> > > grateful to Jagbir for clarifying this with you. Don't you agree

too?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > It would be nice if someone with your knowledge was helping

> with the

> > > > > spreading of Shri Mataji's message. It is common that extremely

> > > > > knowledgable people go to extremes and miss the essence, the

> core of

> > > > > the Divine Teachings. Adishakti.org is a source of

knowledge, not

> > > > > the path. Too much vidya turns into a-vidya if you don't

> decorate it

> > > > > with your humility. It is important that you do that. Not just

> > > > > trying to show off your knowledge and your so called

exposures on

> > > > > the WCASY and mainstream Sahaja Yogis. The only way, the

path, is

> > > > > simple meeditation and participation in the collective, at least

> > > > > according to Her " unenlightened " instructions.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lots of love,

> > > > > michalis

> > > > >

> > > > > JSM

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Michalis, you have a way of bunching everything into a " state

of no

> > > meaning " . Firstly, Jagbir " is " using his knowledge (gnosis) to

spread

> > > the Divine Message of Shri Mataji - and not the SYSSR of WCASY. If

> > > Jagbir had all the knowledge in the world, but not the gnosis, all

> > > that knowledge would avail him and others, nothing. This knowledge

> > > (gnosis) is not an " extreme knowledge " as you describe it. It is an

> > > inner, balanced, integrated spiritual knowledge. The path can only

> > > ever be within a person themselves. Adishakti.org is the knowledge

> > > that enables/encourages/instructs people to that path within.

> > > >

> > > > Michalis, you say that:

> > > >

> > > > " Too much vidya turns into a-vidya if you don't decorate it with

> > > your humility. It is important that you do that. "

> > > >

> > > > Michalis, you are probably one of the most incredible people i

have

> > > read on this forum - who either talks about himself in big ways, or

> > > alternatively talks against Jagbir. i don't exactly see any humility

> > > in that. Maybe, you should preach this sermon to yourself first,

> > > before giving it to others - don't you think? Besides, Jagbir is not

> > > as you say " showing off his knowledge " - but you are definitely

> > > showing off your ignorance.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > " The only way, the path, is simple meeditation and

participation in

> > > the collective, at least according to Her " unenlightened "

> instructions " .

> > > >

> > > > It takes more than simple meditation, Michalis. It takes facing

> > > yourself, in introspection. With regard to collectivity, Shri Mataji

> > > described that to be " where there is no other " (ananya), which is a

> > > state of collectivity, rather than a location of collectivity. The

> > > fact that Shri Mataji said that one person can be in one country and

> > > another in another country and still be collective, shows that Shri

> > > Mataji is not just talking about a local, physically present

> > > collective. Shri Mataji is now asking SYs to split up into groups of

> > > 4-5 or whatever. With your externally focussed way of looking at

> > > things, you could be thinking that Shri Mataji is splitting up the

> > > collective, when She is not.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe you still have a bit more maturing to do, i think.

> > > >

> > > > regards,

> > > >

> > > > violet

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , " jagbir singh "

> > > > > <adishakti_org@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > , " michalis_9 "

> > > > > <michalis_9@> wrote:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hello Jagbir and group members,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I haven't posted for a long long time but i was visiting

> > from time

> > > > > > > to time and i hope you will accept my humble opinion on

> > using Shri

> > > > > > > Mataji's photograph:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You are welcome Michalis. The last time we exchanged emails

> > you were

> > > > > > quite agitated that i referred to Shri Mataji as a mere

> > incarnation:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > " I agree with you that it is the Spirit within that matters

> > but you

> > > > > > exaggerate about Mother. She is nothing close to " mere " . Can

> I ask

> > > > > > you when She said She is not doing anything? I know She's said

> > > > > > that She works even during Her sleep. That She absorbs all our

> > > > > > negativity, and Her attention is on us when we do puja. As

> far as

> > > > > > I'm concerned we are lucky to have Her with us and claiming

> She is

> > > > > > a mere incarnation does Her disservice. Moreover I've read

talks

> > > > > > where she wants us to use Her photo, even wear badges...

> What are

> > > > > > you talking about.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please state whether you go along with Shri Mataji's

> teachings or

> > > > > > you differentiate when you think it is proper.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Regards, Michalis "

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

/message/8502

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Clearly She has said in Her latest talk that the realization

> > > should

> > > > > > > come from us and not from the photograph. This means that

> we are

> > > > > > > supposed to use it, not to cling on it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have again misunderstood Her. Let me refresh you with

> Her 2008

> > > > > > Guru Puja talk:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > & #65533;And so many of you can be, but you have to attain

first,

> > > > `Are you

> > > > > > capable of being a guru or not?' With humbleness you will

> > > > > > understand. Those who think they can be guru should become

> gurus,

> > > > > > because now I can't travel from places to places. And you have

> > to do

> > > > > > my job, is to give realization to people. But you have to be

> able

> > > > > > to give en-mass realization, then only you could be a guru.

> If you

> > > > > > can give en-mass realization, then you could be a guru.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You can use my photograph, but the realization should not be

> from

> > > > > > the photograph, but from you. Then only you can be a

> guru. & #65533;

> > > > (end)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So Michalis, Self-realization should come from you and not the

> > > > > > photograph. It is absurd to think that the photograph, not

> the Adi

> > > > > > Shakti/Holy Spirit/Mother Kundalini within, confers

> > > Self-realization.

> > > > > > Most SYs think just like you because of the SYSSR.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So how can the realization come from you, not the photograph?

> > Before

> > > > > > continuing let me tell you that realizing the Self is a long,

> > long,

> > > > > > long process. It took me a decade to accomplish it .... and

> > help me

> > > > > > attain 2% enlightenment. Except for kundalini awakening and

> > > > > > establishing the Cool Breeze the SYSSR has little to do with

> Self-

> > > > > > realization.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So how can the realization of Self come from you, not the

> > > photograph?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Related Articles:

> > > > > > Jesus: " God is spirit, and those who worship him ... "

> > > > > > Self as Spirit: & #65533;Jesus answered them ... "

> > > > > > Who am I - Deepak Chopra

> > > > > > Silence Is God's First Language

> > > > > > Theosis is a state akin to 'enlightenment'

> > > > > > Look deep within

> > > > > > God (Brahman) exists in every living being

> > > > > > Aim of being reborn known to almost every religion

> > > > > > All Holy Scriptures uphold the Self as Spirit, for Self is God

> > > > > > Allâh is " closer to him (the human) than [his] jugular vein. "

> > > > > > Yoga and Meditation (Dhyana) by Georg Feuerstein

> > > > > > Has Yoga strayed from its core?

> > > > > > Yoga is an art of living and not a religious practice

> > > > > > A Christian practicing sahaja yoga meditation

> > > > > > Shri Mataji: " Achieve your Self, become your Self. "

> > > > > > Shri Mataji: " But this Judgment is so beautiful. "

> > > > > > Shri Mataji: " What Christ said ... is nothing but Advaita. "

> > > > > > On being liberated from the dualities of pleasure and pain

> > > > > > Yoga Methods in Christian Mysticism

> > > > > > Shri Mataji: " The ultimate act against the Spirit ... "

> > > > > > Shri Mataji: " Self-Realization will lead to creation of a new

> > race "

> > > > > > Each religion springs from a profound experience of the Spirit

> > > > > > This new mode of being and consciousness is the ...

> > > > > > For if you walk on this road, it is impossible to go astray

> > > > > > Mystic & #65533;s discovery of higher Self is only a step on a

> > > > greater journey

> > > > > > For the mystics, Jesus was a living embodiment of union

with God

> > > > > > Gnosis essentially is act of distinguishing soul from

> deepest self

> > > > > > People who have never even glimpsed the realm of the sacred

> > > > > > Eckhart Tolle's Teachings and Self-realization are in perfect

> > > harmony

> > > > > > Eckhart Tolle's Stillness Speaks and T. A. are in perfect

> harmony

> > > > > > What and where is Self/Brahman/God/Being ...?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

http://www.adishakti.org/forum/jesus_god_is_spirit_and_those_who_worship_him_mus\

t_worship_in_spirit_and_truth_10-22-2007.htm

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > But She also said that we should have Her photograph

> whenever we

> > > > > > > have meetings, and also use it for puja till we are gurus

> > and make

> > > > > > > enough Sahaja Yogis. I think Her words were " You don't

> > cancel Me " .

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But Michalis, having Her photo for meetings and puja is not

> > the same

> > > > > > as & #65533;the realization should not be from the photograph,

> > > but from

> > > > > > you & #65533;. i have never said that we should not use Her

> > > > photograph for

> > > > > > meetings and puja because that is required. Shri Mataji is

> > > telling us

> > > > > > that we use the photograph for public meetings BUT the Self-

> > > > > > realization must still come from you and your powers. Yet

> > again She

> > > > > > emphasizes this important distinction between Her

photograph and

> > > > > > realizing of the Self, which the photo cannot enlighten

> > > > & #65533; & #65533;. all the

> > > > > > more since the seekers know so little! (How much did you know

> > in the

> > > > > > beginning Michalis, the irony being that you still have not

> > realized

> > > > > > your Self despite years practising the SYSSR?)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > & #65533;To begin with you can use my photograph, but

latter on,

> > > > you can

> > > > > > only put the photograph there but use your own powers and give

> > > > > > realization. You can do it, and that is how we can spread

Sahaja

> > > > > > Yoga all over the world. I have done my level best now, but I

> > don't

> > > > > > think now I can travel anymore. So I am telling you that you

> > have to

> > > > > > take over, and work it out. That doesn't mean you cancel Me

> > & #65533;

> > > > > > no, not at all! I am there with you. And every place you work

> > > you put

> > > > > > my photograph. But realization you have to give and try to

> > give mass

> > > > > > realization. If that doesn't work out then you should know

> > that you

> > > > > > are not a guru. If you can give mass realization, then

only you

> > > are a

> > > > > > guru. Otherwise you are not. & #65533; (end)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But it is indeed impossible to explain anything without Shri

> > Mataji,

> > > > > > and by that i mean Her all-encompassing advent and message

> of the

> > > > > > Blossom Time. More than three decades of enlightenment are

> > > > > > indispensable in triggering the General Resurrection.

> Without Her

> > > > > > quotes it is impossible to do anything. And seekers have to

> > see how

> > > > > > the incarnation of the Adi Shakti, how the Comforter looks

> > like? So

> > > > > > how can anyone of us ever cancel Her?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Of course She is inside, but as She says what is inside is

> also

> > > > > > > outside. The embodiment of such a Divine Force is not to be

> > > > > > > disregarded.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > She is 1% outside and 99% inside. After Shri Mataji & #65533;s

> > > > Mahasamadhi She

> > > > > > will be 100% inside. Where are SYs going to look for Her then?

> > .....

> > > > > > in Her photograph? Why do i keep insisting that time is on Her

> > side,

> > > > > > and ours too?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > She also said that we can tell the seekers about Her if

> > necessary.

> > > > > > > Not to go out and start yelling " The Comforter has

> come!! " . She

> > > > > > > gives us complete freedom as to how to approach the seekers,

> > > we can

> > > > > > > either tell them about Her nature immediately, or wait and

> > see (as

> > > > > > > She Herself used to do).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > SYs have been waiting forever to announce the

Comforter & #65533;s

> > > > advent and

> > > > > > message to humanity. Unlike them, Shri Mataji has always been

> > honest

> > > > > > and upfront to the public about the Last Judgment. That is why

> > > > > > despite three decades 99.99% of humanity neither knows nor

> will be

> > > > > > interested in the SYSSR. And with Shri Mataji retiring the sun

> > will,

> > > > > > without question, set on the SYSSR.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But She has given us complete freedom to form our own

> > organizations

> > > > > > and spread Her advent and message to humanity. Only fools will

> > > go out

> > > > > > and start yelling & #65533;The Comforter has come!! & #65533;

> > > > Intelligent people will

> > > > > > only need to give seekers links to http://www.adishakti.org

> > ........

> > > > > > before or after triggering their spiritual birth by the Spirit

> > > > > > (kundalini awakening). Then these seekers can spend

months/years

> > > > > > realizing their Self as they take part in the Resurrection.

> > That is

> > > > > > how en masse realization will work out Michalis!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > These are just my thoughts, a bit more matured compared

to the

> > > last

> > > > > > > time i posted here, not necessarily due to footsoaking or

> WCASY

> > > > > > > approved treatments but due to collectivity and spreading of

> > > Sahaja

> > > > > > > Yoga...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > love, michalis

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > JSM

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have matured Michalis but still have a long way to realize

> > your

> > > > > > Self, and the knowledge required for just that. All the

> > footsoaks or

> > > > > > WCASY approved treatments will never bring you any closer.

> On the

> > > > > > contrary, you will only drift away and stagnate. Period!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > regards,

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > jagbir

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>