When Jesus and Shri Mataji talk about God Almighty you ... (begin to suspect a rival impostor)

[Guest guest]

>

> Shri Mataji: " He (Jesus) was the Holiest of the Holy. You accept

> that position. "

>

, " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org wrote:

>

> Note: When Jesus and Shri Mataji talk about God Almighty you have

> to give up all your mental concepts and conditionings about the

> Creator.

>

> One should realize that Jesus spoke about the Creator with far more

> authority, power and depth than Abraham, Moses and Prophet Muhammad.

> Even more significant is the fact that Jesus already existed eons

> before Abraham, Moses and Prophet Muhammad, and declared that

> without any fear: " Before Abraham was, I Am " . John 8:58-59 says

> explicitly that Jews took up stones to cast on Jesus when the

> latter said that " before Abraham was, I am " , despite never claiming

> to be God Almighty. The Comforter gives evidence to support Jesus'

> extraordinary claim, and counsels us that He was in fact speaking

> the truth:

>

 

Main Entry: im·pos·tor

-one that assumes false identity or title for the purpose of deception

 

Merriam Webster Online Dictionary

 

 

" The Christian creed begins with the words 'I believe in one God,

Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.' Some scholars suggest

that this credal statement was originally formulated to exclude

followers of the heretic Marcion (c.140) from orthodox churches. A

Christian from Asia Minor, Marcion was struck by what he saw as the

contrast between the creator-God of the Old Testament, who

demands justice and punishes every violation of his law, and the

Father whom Jesus proclaims - the New Testament God of forgiveness

and love. Why, he asked, would a God who is 'almighty' - all-

powerful - create a world that includes suffering, pain, disease -

even mosquitoes and scorpions? Marcion concluded that these must be

two different Gods. The majority of Christians early condemned

this view as dualistic, and identified themselves as orthodox by

confessing one God, who is both 'Father Almighty' and 'Maker of

heaven and earth'.

 

When advocates of orthodoxy confronted another challenge - the

gnostics - they often attacked them as 'Marcionites' and 'dualists'.

Irenaeus states as his major complaint against the gnostics that

they, like the Marcionites, say that 'there is another God besides

the creator'. (P.56) Some of the recently discovered texts confirm

his account. According to the 'Hypostasis of the Archons', the

creator's vain claim [1] to hold an exclusive monopoly on divine

power shows that he is blind ... [because of his] power and his

ignorance [and his] arrogance he said ..., 'It is I who am God; there

is none [other apart from me].' When he said this, he sinned against

[the Entirety]. And a voice came forth from above the realm of

absolute power, saying, 'You are mistaken, Samael,' which means, 'god

of the blind'.[2]

 

Another text discovered in the same codex at Nag Hammadi, 'On the

Origin of the World', tells a variant of the same story:

 

.... he boasted continually, saying to (the angels) ... 'I am God, and

no other one exists except me.' But when he said these things, he

sinned against all of the immortal ones ... when Faith saw the

impiety of the chief ruler, she was angry ... she said, 'You err,

Samael (i.e., 'blind god'). An enlightened, immortal humanity

['anthropos'] exists before you!'[3]

 

A third text bound into the same volume, the 'Secret Book of John',

relates how in his madness ... he said, 'I am God, and there is no

other God beside me,' for he is ignorant of ... the place from which

he had come ... And when he saw the creation which surrounds him and

the multitudes of angels around him which had come forth from him, he

said to them, 'I am a jealous God, and there is no other God beside

me.' But by announcing this he indicated to the angels that another

God does exist; for if there were no other one, of whom would he be

jealous?[4]

 

When these same sources tell the story of the Garden of Eden, they

characterize this God as the jealous master, whose tyranny the

serpent (often, in ancient times, a symbol of divine wisdom) taught

Adam and Eve to resist:

 

.... God gave [a command] to Adam, 'From every [tree] you may eat,

[but] from the tree which is in the midst of Paradise do not eat, for

on the day that you eat from it you will surely die.' But the serpent

was wiser than all the animals that were in Paradise, and he

persuaded Eve, saying, 'On the day when you eat from the tree which

is in the midst of Paradise, the eyes of your mind will be opened.'

And Eve obeyed ... she ate; she also gave to her husband.[5]

 

Observing that the serpent's promise came true - their eyes were

opened - but that God's threat of immediate death did not, the

gnostic author goes on to quote God's words from Genesis 3:22, adding

editorial comment:

 

.... 'Behold, Adam has become like one of us, knowing evil and good.'

Then he said, 'Let us cast him out of Paradise, lest he take from the

tree of life, and live forever.' But of what sort is this God? First

[he] envied Adam that he should eat from the tree of knowledge....

Surely he has shown himself to be a malicious envier.[6]

 

As the American scholar Birger Pearson points out, the author uses an

Aramaic pun to equate the serpent with the Instructor ('serpent',

hewya; 'to instruct', hawa).[7] Other gnostic accounts add a four-way

pun that includes Eve (Hawah): instead of tempting Adam, she gives

life to him and instructs him:

 

After the day of rest, Sophia [literally, 'wisdom'] sent Zoe

[literally, 'life'], her daughter, who is called Eve, as an

instructor to raise up Adam... When Eve saw Adam cast down, she

pitied him, and she said, 'Adam, live! Rise up upon the earth!'

Immediately her word became a deed. For when Adam rose up,

immediately he opened his eyes. When he saw her, he said, 'You will

be called " the mother of the living " , because you are the one who

gave me life.'[8]

 

The 'Hypostasis of the Archons' describes Eve as the spiritual

principle in humanity who raises Adam from his merely material

condition:

 

And the spirit-endowed Woman came to [Adam] and spoke with him,

saying, 'Arise, Adam.' And when he saw her, he said, 'It is you who

have given me life; you shall be called " Mother of the living " - for

it is she who is my mother. It is she who is the Physician, and the

Woman, and She Who Has Given Birth.' ... Then the Female Spiritual

Principle came in the Snake, the Instructor, and it taught them,

saying,' ... you shall not die; for it was out of jealousy that he

said this to you. Rather, your eyes shall open, and you shall become

like gods, recognizing evil and good.' ... And the arrogant Ruler

cursed the Woman ... [and] ... the Snake.[9] "

 

The Gnostic Gospels, Pg. 55-56

Elaine Pagels

 

References:

 

[1]Cf. N.A. Dahl, 'The Gnostic Response: The Ignorant Creator',

documentation prepared for the Nag Hammadi Section of the Society of

Biblical Literature Annual Meeting, 1976.

 

[2]Hypostasis of the Archons 86.27-94.26,in NHL 153-8. Note that the

citation is conflated from two separate variants of the story in

86.27-87.4 and 94.19-26; a third occurs in the same text at 94.34-

95.13.Cf.B.Layton, 'The Hypostasis of the Archons', in Harvard

Theological Review 67 (1974),351 ff.

 

[3]On the Origin of the World 103.9-20, in NHL 165. For analysis of

the texts, see F.L. Fallon, The Sabaoth Accounts in 'The Nature of

the Archons' (CG11,4) and 'On the Origin of the World' (CG 11,5): An

Analysis (Cambridge, 1974).

 

[4]Apocryphon of John 11.18-13.13, in NHL 105-6.

 

[5]Testimony of Truth 45.24-46.11, in NHL 411.

 

[6]ibid., 47.7-30, in NHL 412.

 

[7]See Excellent discussion by B.A. Pearson, 'Jewish Haggadic

Traditions in the Testimony of Truth from Nag Hammadi, CG IX, 3', in

Ex Orbe Religionum: Studia Geo Widengren oblata (Leiden, 1972), 458-70

 

[8]On the Origin of the World 115.31-116.8, in NHL 172.

 

[9]Hypostasis of the Archons 89.11-91.1, in NHL 154-5.

 

 

When Jesus and Shri Mataji talk about God Almighty you .... (begin to

suspect a rival impostor) ... and that the same " Mother of the living "

(the Woman and the Snake whom the arrogant Ruler cursed) has returned

to open our eyes and make us like gods recognizing evil and good:

 

" And the spirit-endowed Woman came to [Adam] and spoke with him,

saying, 'Arise, Adam.' And when he saw her, he said, 'It is you who

have given me life; you shall be called " Mother of the living " - for

it is she who is my mother. It is she who is the Physician, and the

Woman, and She Who Has Given Birth.' ... Then the Female Spiritual

Principle came in the Snake, the Instructor, and it taught them,

saying,' ... you shall not die; for it was out of jealousy that he

said this to you. Rather, your eyes shall open, and you shall become

like gods, recognizing evil and good.' ... And the arrogant Ruler

cursed the Woman ... [and] ... the Snake.[ "

[Guest guest]

" We get a sense of the difficulty of the struggle in a famous

confrontation between Jesus and a group of priests who set out to

interrogate him. The incident starts out inspirationally:

 

Once again Jesus addressed the people: " I am the Light of the world.

No follower of mine shall wander in the dark; he shall have the light

of life. " (John 8:12)

 

Jesus had entered Jerusalem for the last time. Within hours he would

be arrested by the Romans, on trial for his life. For the moment,

however, his accusers are priests, who question him like lawyers.

 

The Pharisees said to him, " You are witness in your own cause. Your

testimony is not valid. " Jesus replied, " My testimony is valid, even

though I do bear witness about myself; because I know where I come

from and where I am going. You do not know either where I come from

or where I am going. You judge by worldly standards. "

 

Here, with his teachings at its most mature, Jesus knows how

enigmatic he seems to ordinary people, even the learned. For he goes

on to say that the learned are the least able to understand either

him or God:

 

" I am the one who bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent

me bears witness about me. " They said to him therefore, " Where is

your Father? " Jesus answered, " You know neither me nor my Father. If

you knew me, you would know my Father also. " "

 

Deepak Chopra, The Third Jesus: The Christ We Cannot Ignore,

pgs. 22-23

Harmony Books, February 2008

ISBN:9780307338310

 

 

>

> Shri Mataji: " He (Jesus) was the Holiest of the Holy. You accept

> that position. "

>

, " jagbir singh "

<adishakti_org wrote:

>

> Note: When Jesus and Shri Mataji talk about God Almighty you have

> to give up all your mental concepts and conditionings about the

> Creator.

>

> One should realize that Jesus spoke about the Creator with far more

> authority, power and depth than Abraham, Moses and Prophet Muhammad.

> Even more significant is the fact that Jesus already existed eons

> before Abraham, Moses and Prophet Muhammad, and declared that

> without any fear: " Before Abraham was, I Am " . John 8:58-59 says

> explicitly that Jews took up stones to cast on Jesus when the

> latter said that " before Abraham was, I am " , despite never claiming

> to be God Almighty. The Comforter gives evidence to support Jesus'

> extraordinary claim, and counsels us that He was in fact speaking

> the truth:

>

 

Main Entry: im·pos·tor

-one that assumes false identity or title for the purpose of deception

 

Merriam Webster Online Dictionary

 

 

" The Christian creed begins with the words 'I believe in one God,

Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.' Some scholars suggest

that this credal statement was originally formulated to exclude

followers of the heretic Marcion (c.140) from orthodox churches. A

Christian from Asia Minor, Marcion was struck by what he saw as the

contrast between the creator-God of the Old Testament, who

demands justice and punishes every violation of his law, and the

Father whom Jesus proclaims - the New Testament God of forgiveness

and love. Why, he asked, would a God who is 'almighty' - all-

powerful - create a world that includes suffering, pain, disease -

even mosquitoes and scorpions? Marcion concluded that these must be

two different Gods. The majority of Christians early condemned

this view as dualistic, and identified themselves as orthodox by

confessing one God, who is both 'Father Almighty' and 'Maker of

heaven and earth'.

 

When advocates of orthodoxy confronted another challenge - the

gnostics - they often attacked them as 'Marcionites' and 'dualists'.

Irenaeus states as his major complaint against the gnostics that

they, like the Marcionites, say that 'there is another God besides

the creator'. (P.56) Some of the recently discovered texts confirm

his account. According to the 'Hypostasis of the Archons', the

creator's vain claim [1] to hold an exclusive monopoly on divine

power shows that he is blind ... [because of his] power and his

ignorance [and his] arrogance he said ..., 'It is I who am God; there

is none [other apart from me].' When he said this, he sinned against

[the Entirety]. And a voice came forth from above the realm of

absolute power, saying, 'You are mistaken, Samael,' which means, 'god

of the blind'.[2]

 

Another text discovered in the same codex at Nag Hammadi, 'On the

Origin of the World', tells a variant of the same story:

 

.... he boasted continually, saying to (the angels) ... 'I am God, and

no other one exists except me.' But when he said these things, he

sinned against all of the immortal ones ... when Faith saw the

impiety of the chief ruler, she was angry ... she said, 'You err,

Samael (i.e., 'blind god'). An enlightened, immortal humanity

['anthropos'] exists before you!'[3]

 

A third text bound into the same volume, the 'Secret Book of John',

relates how in his madness ... he said, 'I am God, and there is no

other God beside me,' for he is ignorant of ... the place from which

he had come ... And when he saw the creation which surrounds him and

the multitudes of angels around him which had come forth from him, he

said to them, 'I am a jealous God, and there is no other God beside

me.' But by announcing this he indicated to the angels that another

God does exist; for if there were no other one, of whom would he be

jealous?[4]

 

When these same sources tell the story of the Garden of Eden, they

characterize this God as the jealous master, whose tyranny the

serpent (often, in ancient times, a symbol of divine wisdom) taught

Adam and Eve to resist:

 

.... God gave [a command] to Adam, 'From every [tree] you may eat,

[but] from the tree which is in the midst of Paradise do not eat, for

on the day that you eat from it you will surely die.' But the serpent

was wiser than all the animals that were in Paradise, and he

persuaded Eve, saying, 'On the day when you eat from the tree which

is in the midst of Paradise, the eyes of your mind will be opened.'

And Eve obeyed ... she ate; she also gave to her husband.[5]

 

Observing that the serpent's promise came true - their eyes were

opened - but that God's threat of immediate death did not, the

gnostic author goes on to quote God's words from Genesis 3:22, adding

editorial comment:

 

.... 'Behold, Adam has become like one of us, knowing evil and good.'

Then he said, 'Let us cast him out of Paradise, lest he take from the

tree of life, and live forever.' But of what sort is this God? First

[he] envied Adam that he should eat from the tree of knowledge....

Surely he has shown himself to be a malicious envier.[6]

 

As the American scholar Birger Pearson points out, the author uses an

Aramaic pun to equate the serpent with the Instructor ('serpent',

hewya; 'to instruct', hawa).[7] Other gnostic accounts add a four-way

pun that includes Eve (Hawah): instead of tempting Adam, she gives

life to him and instructs him:

 

After the day of rest, Sophia [literally, 'wisdom'] sent Zoe

[literally, 'life'], her daughter, who is called Eve, as an

instructor to raise up Adam... When Eve saw Adam cast down, she

pitied him, and she said, 'Adam, live! Rise up upon the earth!'

Immediately her word became a deed. For when Adam rose up,

immediately he opened his eyes. When he saw her, he said, 'You will

be called " the mother of the living " , because you are the one who

gave me life.'[8]

 

The 'Hypostasis of the Archons' describes Eve as the spiritual

principle in humanity who raises Adam from his merely material

condition:

 

And the spirit-endowed Woman came to [Adam] and spoke with him,

saying, 'Arise, Adam.' And when he saw her, he said, 'It is you who

have given me life; you shall be called " Mother of the living " - for

it is she who is my mother. It is she who is the Physician, and the

Woman, and She Who Has Given Birth.' ... Then the Female Spiritual

Principle came in the Snake, the Instructor, and it taught them,

saying,' ... you shall not die; for it was out of jealousy that he

said this to you. Rather, your eyes shall open, and you shall become

like gods, recognizing evil and good.' ... And the arrogant Ruler

cursed the Woman ... [and] ... the Snake.[9] "

 

The Gnostic Gospels, Pg. 55-56

Elaine Pagels

 

References:

 

[1]Cf. N.A. Dahl, 'The Gnostic Response: The Ignorant Creator',

documentation prepared for the Nag Hammadi Section of the Society of

Biblical Literature Annual Meeting, 1976.

 

[2]Hypostasis of the Archons 86.27-94.26,in NHL 153-8. Note that the

citation is conflated from two separate variants of the story in

86.27-87.4 and 94.19-26; a third occurs in the same text at 94.34-

95.13.Cf.B.Layton, 'The Hypostasis of the Archons', in Harvard

Theological Review 67 (1974),351 ff.

 

[3]On the Origin of the World 103.9-20, in NHL 165. For analysis of

the texts, see F.L. Fallon, The Sabaoth Accounts in 'The Nature of

the Archons' (CG11,4) and 'On the Origin of the World' (CG 11,5): An

Analysis (Cambridge, 1974).

 

[4]Apocryphon of John 11.18-13.13, in NHL 105-6.

 

[5]Testimony of Truth 45.24-46.11, in NHL 411.

 

[6]ibid., 47.7-30, in NHL 412.

 

[7]See Excellent discussion by B.A. Pearson, 'Jewish Haggadic

Traditions in the Testimony of Truth from Nag Hammadi, CG IX, 3', in

Ex Orbe Religionum: Studia Geo Widengren oblata (Leiden, 1972), 458-70

 

[8]On the Origin of the World 115.31-116.8, in NHL 172.

 

[9]Hypostasis of the Archons 89.11-91.1, in NHL 154-5.

 

 

When Jesus and Shri Mataji talk about God Almighty you .... (begin to

suspect a rival impostor) ... and that the same " Mother of the living "

(the Woman and the Snake whom the arrogant Ruler cursed) has returned

to open our eyes and make us like gods recognizing evil and good:

 

" And the spirit-endowed Woman came to [Adam] and spoke with him,

saying, 'Arise, Adam.' And when he saw her, he said, 'It is you who

have given me life; you shall be called " Mother of the living " - for

it is she who is my mother. It is she who is the Physician, and the

Woman, and She Who Has Given Birth.' ... Then the Female Spiritual

Principle came in the Snake, the Instructor, and it taught them,

saying,' ... you shall not die; for it was out of jealousy that he

said this to you. Rather, your eyes shall open, and you shall become

like gods, recognizing evil and good.' ... And the arrogant Ruler

cursed the Woman ... [and] ... the Snake. "