The Experience of God in the Old and New Testaments - Part 6

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

We concluded Part 5 with:

 

(P. 219) Jesus comes to reveal God's presence in himself. He reveals this first

of all in terms of the Kingdom or rule of God which he declares is present in

himself, but he also reveals God's presence in terms of sonship. He expresses

his relationship to God in this way, " No one knows the Son except the Father,

and no one knows the Father except the Son... " This is a unique 'gnosis', a

unique knowledge. Only the Son knows the Father and only the Father knows the

Son. So it is quite clear that he experienced God in a unique way. It is

important that we put Jesus into the context of history. Just as we tried to see

the Hindu revelation in the context of its history, so we try to see Jesus in

the context of his history, and he comes as a man who experiences God as his

Father in this absolutely unique way, and sees himself as the Son. But it must

not be forgotten that, as we saw before, in the Son he also includes his

brethren, all humankind, so that in him and through him this new relationship to

God is opened up to all. So he says, " No one knows the Son except the Father,

and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to

reveal him. " [26] Jesus makes known this relationship of intimacy, of

relationship to God, so that we also can share in that relationship and can know

ourselves as children of God.

 

A New Vision of Reality (Western Science, Eastern Mysticism and Christian Faith)

Chapter 10, Pg.219

 

Here now, is Part 6.

 

Enjoy,

 

violet

 

 

 

The Experience of God in the Old and New Testaments - Part 6

 

(P.219) In St John's Gospel this relationship of the Father and the Son is

expressed in the terms, " I am in the Father and the Father in me. " That is a

relationship of total interiority. But Jesus goes on to pray for his disciples,

" that they all may be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that

they also may be in us... " [27] So here we have this revelation of total

intimacy such that he is 'in' the Father and the Father 'in' him, and that he

wants to share that relationship with his disciples so that they also are in the

Father as he is. This is the centre of the Christian revelation. The God of

Israel, the transcendent holy One manifesting himself in Jesus, reveals this

relationship of Father to Son, of Son to Father, and communicates that

relationship to his disciples in the Spirit. That is the central Christian

revelation and the central Christian experience. It must always be remembered

that what is revelation from one point of view is experience from the other.

There is no revelation coming down from above without any relation to human

experience. It always has to be experienced in order to be revealed. It is only

through our experience that we know God.

 

Jesus can say then, " I and the Father are one. " [28] He knows himself as one

with the Father, and yet, as we saw, in distinction from the Father. He does not

say, " I am the Father " but " I and the Father are one " . This is unity in

distinction. This mutual interpenetration combining unity and distinction

developed, as we shall see in the next chapter, in the whole course of Christian

mysticism, as one of its fundamental elements. This is what distinguishes the

Christian experience of God from that of the Hindu. The Hindu in his deepest

experience of 'advaita' knows God in an identity of being. " I am Brahman, " " Thou

art that. " The Christian experiences God in a communion of being, a relationship

of love, in which there is none the less perfect unity of being.

 

When Jesus reveals himself as one with his disciples he uses the striking image

of the vine. " I am the vine. You are the branches. Abide in me, and I in you. "

[29] We cannot hope for a more intimate relation than this, the vine and the

branches. He is the vine and we are the branches of the vine. We share in his

life, not separate from him but as truly part of him as branches of the vine. So

Jesus comes to reveal that life in God and to communicate that life to us so

that we also, in and through him, become sons of God and experience the Spirit

as he does. And so later on St John in his letter can say, " Our 'koinonia', our

common life, is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ " . [30] (P.221) We

as a community share in the knowledge and love of the Father and the Son. We

share in their life.

 

Jesus communicates to his disciples the mystical experience he has of his

relation to the Father and they form a community, a 'koinonia', with him.

'Koinos' means " common " and 'koinonia' is " common life " , " community " . The

Christian mystical experience is always in terms of community. The Hindu

experience is essentially individual and has no positive relationship to the

community whereas the Christian experience, although certainly personal and

individual, is always also implicitly or explicitly a community experience. This

is very important. It comes out clearly in the Acts of the Apostles when, after

Pentecost, the Spirit descends on the disciples. Jesus had promised them that

when he departed he would send the Spirit and that the Spirit would abide with

them. So the Spirit descends and then it is said that the disciples were all " of

one heart and soul " . The experience unites the people together in one. Then

another dimension of the experience is revealed. " They sold their possessions

and goods and distributed them to all, as any had need. " [31] So the descent of

the Spirit forms the community and the community is such that in it everything

is shared, even at the economic level. This is a particularly Christian

understanding. It is the descent of God into the whole context of human life.

That is the primary importance of the historic dimension, that God is always

seen in relation to the human world, to human history and to human

relationships. As St John brings out very strongly in his letter, anyone who

does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not

seen. [32] So this love of God is totally expressed in the love of our

neighbour. Love of God and love of neighbour can never be separated. Comparing

this with 'bhakti' in Hinduism, 'bhakti' is always a personal relationship to

God, a self-transcendence, going beyond and being one with God, but, although

the relation to the neighbour is certainly there, it is not normally expressed.

(P.222) It is an experience of identity, not of relationship. The relationship

to the neighbour is implicit but not explicit, whereas in the Christian context

the relation to the neighbour is always explicit and fundamental. And so it is

an experience of God in the Spirit which brings this experience of being of one

heart and one soul with others, and this then spreads out into daily life in the

sharing of the goods of the world. These three aspects characterise the

Christian mystical experience in the New Testament.

 

A New Vision of Reality (Western Science, Eastern Mysticism and

Christian Faith)

Chapter 10, Pg.219-222

Bede Griffiths

Templegate Publishers - Springfield, Illinois

ISBN 0-87243-180-0

 

 

Notes:

 

[26] Matthew 11:27; cf. Luke 10:12

 

[27] John 17:21

 

[28] John 10:20

 

[29] John 15:1-4

 

[30] 1 John 1:3

 

[31] Acts 2:45

 

[32] 1 John 4:20

[Guest guest]

http://adishakti.org/_/jesus_himself_never_speaks_of_himself_as_god.htm

 

, " Violet "

<violetubb wrote:

 

The Experience of God in the Old and New Testaments - Part 6

 

(P.219) In St John's Gospel this relationship of the Father and the

Son is expressed in the terms, " I am in the Father and the Father in

me. " That is a relationship of total interiority. But Jesus goes on

to pray for his disciples, " that they all may be one; even as thou,

Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us... "

[27] So here we have this revelation of total intimacy such that he

is 'in' the Father and the Father 'in' him, and that he wants to

share that relationship with his disciples so that they also are in

the Father as he is. This is the centre of the Christian revelation.

The God of Israel, the transcendent holy One manifesting himself in

Jesus, reveals this relationship of Father to Son, of Son to Father,

and communicates that relationship to his disciples in the Spirit.

That is the central Christian revelation and the central Christian

experience. It must always be remembered that what is revelation from

one point of view is experience from the other. There is no

revelation coming down from above without any relation to human

experience. It always has to be experienced in order to be revealed.

It is only through our experience that we know God.

 

Jesus can say then, " I and the Father are one. " [28] He knows himself

as one with the Father, and yet, as we saw, in distinction from the

Father. He does not say, " I am the Father " but " I and the Father are

one " . This is unity in distinction. This mutual interpenetration

combining unity and distinction developed, as we shall see in the

next chapter, in the whole course of Christian mysticism, as one of

its fundamental elements. This is what distinguishes the Christian

experience of God from that of the Hindu. The Hindu in his deepest

experience of 'advaita' knows God in an identity of being. " I am

Brahman, " " Thou art that. " The Christian experiences God in a

communion of being, a relationship of love, in which there is none

the less perfect unity of being.

 

http://adishakti.org/_/jesus_himself_never_speaks_of_himself_as_god.htm