Re:The superstition in sahaj needs to be eradicated quickly if we are t

[Guest guest]

Thanks Jagbir. Sorry but I am only a occasional reader/visiter to this forum and so I am probably asking questions which you have answered many times. Is there somewhere online where I could watch 1980-4-12 Easter Puja part 4/4?If not, your last message makes things clear anyway, for some reason I was led to believe many of these treatments are from Mataji herself. Perhaps another myth wrongly going around programs like chinese whispers.Well, I think that I have personally learnt the hard way and I now just do what I feel works and is best for me out of everything I have seen in these programs - and basically it is just the meditation and kundalini, there has to be question marks besides everything else; like shoe-beating. Sadly it takes a long while to brake out of the repetitive shared mindset that is in operation at these meetings. Like en-masse brainwashing where everyone knows what to say to a particular issue or problem - if a newcomer says this, ah well we direct him/her to this treatment- actually a bit like a fixed McDonalds menu where the staff have it all memorised. Like a inescapable cycle which is designed to steal your mind and keep you coming! Usually it is someone who unconsciously (I wouldn't be so nasty to suggest deliberately but who knows) realizes they are stronger than you (or can exert influence over you) who will attempt to control your mind in this regard. We have to all develop our own strength of character which can be very hard to do.

[Guest guest]

, lunduner1 wrote:

>

> Thanks Jagbir. Sorry but I am only a occasional reader/visiter to

> this forum and so I am probably asking questions which you have

> answered many times. Is there somewhere online where I could watch

> 1980-4-12 Easter Puja part 4/4?

 

i used to have it online but the Sahaja Yoga organization took legal

action because they believed that truth must be sold by themselves at

a profit rather than be given away free by me.

 

http://adishakti.org/pdf_files/sy_copyright_letter.pdf

 

>

> If not, your last message makes things clear anyway, for some reason

> I was led to believe many of these treatments are from Mataji

> herself. Perhaps another myth wrongly going around programs like

> chinese whispers.

>

 

>

> i seriously doubt Muslims (and Christians, Jews, Sikhs) will ever

> accept the rituals that are being promoted. This is the latest

> update and we can see how vital cleansing rituals have become.

>

> Thursday, March 16, 2006 2:48 AM

> Fwd: [aunews] Birthday Puja Update & Registrations

>

> " See details of Books and CD's coming from India for sale at our

> web site: http://www.sahajayoga.com.au/puja/news.html

>

> There will also be Clearing Sessions, Lemon and Chilli meditations,

> Onion Treatment, Camphor Treatment, String Burning, Oil Rubs and

> meditations "

>

> i wonder how will Muslims react to " Lemon and Chilli meditations " .

> Management SYs have alienated most of the religious faithful and

> ordinary seekers with their obsession and insistence on cleansing

> rituals. Muslims will never compromise their faith with such

> practices. The only way will be the assurance that external

> rituals are absolutely unnecessary to take part in the Last

> Judgment and Resurrection. There is no room for compromise here.

>

> jagbir

>

 

i was thinking out loud whether any future believer of Her Divine

Message will require any cleansing rituals for salvation. The more i

pondered the more i am convinced that absolutely no external rituals

are needed for salvation.

 

But the least needed and lowest denominator for salvation has become

the official sacred cow of Sahaja Yoga.

 

Yesterday i asked my wife Shindi, as she baked walnut-carrot muffins,

why SYs need cleansing rituals. She replied that these rites are

required to keep clearing themselves, just like taking repeated

baths daily in order to constantly clean oneself.

 

So when will they become cleansed enough? Never, because they are

forever getting dirtied by catches.

 

Then what is the purpose of all this ceaseless clearing? (i liked

her answer) - so that they can become real yogis.

 

As i shook my head in disbelief i have come to realize how much the

core teachings of Shri Mataji are being lost, discarded by

management SYs since they cannot declare these thunderous Truths.

They are now comfortable with the cleansing rules and clearing

routine that is officially endorsed as necessary for salvation .....

...... er, i mean to become a SY. (Shri Mataji never even once

endorsed this idea that has over time been increasingly worshipped

as the sacred salvation cow of Sahaja Yoga.)

 

That brings the question that will determine its very survival: Will

the faithful in future need the Sahaja Yoga organization, with all

its cleansing rituals so alien to their religious background, to

take part in the Last Judgment and Resurrection?

 

i will save you from the inconsistencies of speculation:

 

" Tolstoy argues, very persuasively, that the core teachings of Jesus

have been lost to the modern Christian. Man is too comfortable with

the way things are to really adopt Jesus approach to life.

 

Most of what passes for Christianity today is nothing of the sort. A

great deal of it is self-serving. Jesus said salvation is personal --

you don't need a " church " to be saved. As Tolstoy explains,

church's are largely the invention of men, who crave a hierarchy and

order.

 

This book " The Kingdom Of God Is Within You " is a revelation, and

can make Christians feel rebuked by Tolstoy's words. "

 

i also cannot resist quoting the Bhagavad-Gita:

 

Undiscerning men, theologians preoccupied with scriptural lore,

Who claim there is nothing else, utter words with ephemeral results.

Their words promise better births through cultic acts,

Dwell at length on various rites, and aim at pleasure and power.

These men are full of desire, zealous for heaven.

They cling to pleasures and power and are fooled by their own

discourses.

They have no knowledge consisting in commitment, fixed in

concentration.

The Scriptures speak to the world's weave of integrity, passion, and

sloth.

Transcend it, Arjuna, free from opposites, forever in integrity,

Detached from things, in command of yourself.

All the Scriptures mean as much — no more, no less — to the

discerning spiritual man, as a water tank in a universal flood.

 

Bhagavad Gita 2:42-46

 

My parting question: If all the Scriptures mean as much — no more,

no less — to the discerning spiritual man, as a water tank in a

universal flood, what will all the various daily rites listed in

the " Manual Of SY Cleansing Rituals and Clearing Techniques " mean?

 

jagbir

 

 

>

> Well, I think that I have personally learnt the hard way and I now

> just do what I feel works and is best for me out of everything I

have seen in these programs - and basically it is just the meditation

and kundalini, there has to be question marks besides everything

else; like shoe-beating. Sadly it takes a long while to break out of

the repetitive shared mindset that is in operation at these

meetings.

> Like en-masse brainwashing where everyone knows what to say to a

> particular issue or problem - if a newcomer says this, ah well we

> direct him/her to this treatment- actually a bit like a fixed

> McDonalds menu where the staff have it all memorised. Like a

> inescapable cycle which is designed to steal your mind and keep you

> coming! Usually it is someone who unconsciously (I wouldn't be so

> nasty to suggest deliberately but who knows) realizes they are

> stronger than you (or can exert influence over you) who will

attempt to control your mind in this regard. We have to all develop

our own strength of character which can be very hard to do.

>

 

Adam, i think it is better you read this website

 

http://www.sahajayoga-shrimataji.org/

 

set up to rudely awaken those diseased by the SYSSReligion.

 

regards,

 

jagbir

[Guest guest]

Dear Jagbir, sorry for the long delay. Someone gave me a copy of 1980-4-12 Easter Puja part 4/4   (75_-_Easter_Puja_IV_-_1980-04-12.mp3). There was nothing in it about external treatments entering into sahaja yoga so I'm not quite sure what you were trying to show me in relation to the below past posts? Nevertheless there is some good stuff in that talk. If you could recommend specific talks where Sri Mataji makes reference to these external treatments then I would be very interested to hear them.Anyway, maybe respond next year after your holiday...hope you have a good holiday so Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!AdamThe superstition in sahaj needs to be eradicated quickly if we are tPosted by: "jagbir singh" adishakti_org   adishakti_orgThu Nov 6, 2008 8:12 am (PST) , Adam Simpson <lunduner1 wrote:>> How does this work Jagbir? Are not going against Sri Mataji by > your views because Sri Mataji has been encouraging all these things > you say we don't need? Are you suggesting she has not been accurate > with everything perhaps? and some things we have to dissect for > ourselves?> Dear Adam,i have come a long way from that all-consuming catch culture ofour SY collectives. i have experienced for years that it is possibleto be catch-free and have vibrations flowing from both hands 24/7,provided you leave it entirely to the Mother Kundalini:"Kundalini will rise and She will cleanse you completely. Kundaliniwill rise and always cleanse the chakras."Shri Mataji Nirmala DeviSydney, Australia, March 31, 1991For the majority of SYs that is not possible and i must be making itup. As new SYs are made to believe: "You can never be catch-free", iguess i must be lying that the Mother Kundalini is capable ofridding all catches. And Shri Mataji must be too! Otherwise how didthe 1001 treatments of SYSSR come into being, and what was their need if the Mother Kundalini will rise and always cleanse the chakras?"All these (chakra cleansing) rituals have entered into Sahaja Yoga. I got somebody in France with the list of the (subtle system) treatments of Vashi hospital. But that was for sick peoples. This is the nature of human being to follow the rituals because he thinks that he can do it." Shri Mataji, 25 December 1997, Christmas Puja, Indiai have repeatedly explained that SYs have corrupted Her teachings and made the SYSSReligion out of them. Yet there is no end to foolish SYsgoing against Her because it "is the nature of human being to follow the rituals because he thinks that he can do it."Adam, i hope you did listen to 1980-4-12 Easter Puja part 4/4. After listening to it, you should be abe to give up all your foolish ideas about your seeking through the SYSSReligion, a seeking that has mislead you and is keeping many away from Resurrection:"It is just for money and power are some people, who are trying to mislead others, keeping them away from Resurrection. I must say they are committing the greatest sin against the Holy Ghost."Shri Mataji Nirmala DeviPublic Program, Brussels, Belgium, 1 July 1993"But now give up all nonsensical ideas about your seeking and useless ramblings Seeking means not knowing about anything but becoming something.For that, Christ crucified Himself. He resurrected Himself so that you all could be resurrected, so you have to, today, thank Him for giving you the lead of resurrection and in this lifetime only, you are going to be resurrected and you are going to see, with your own eyes, your resurrection as the disciples saw the resurrection of Christ. This is being all promised and this must happen to all of you.So we should rejoice and be happy that the time has come for the resurrection and such a great event we are facing. We are such a people-give up our small visions and our petty hankerings, our small little lives in which we live like frogs. Expand yourself and think that today you are facing the drama of mass resurrection, not only that, but you are maneuvering it. So rejoice and be happy that what Christ did 2,000 years back, today we are going to do it. That's why Easter is a special day for all of us. It really is a very special day because in our lives the death has died and we are resurrected."Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi------------------------Adam, before i reply please listen to 1980-4-12 Easter Puja part 4/4 How does this work Jagbir? Are not going against Sri Mataji by yourviews because Sri Mataji has been encouraging all these things yousay we don't need? Are you suggesting she has not been accurate witheverything perhaps? and some things we have to dissect for ourselves?But you are right though. Most people I have ever brought to theprograms do not really want to go to pujas or take part in theexternal rituals- first reactions from people are usually along thelines of 'is this really necessary?'. They kind of just go along withit after some sweet talking - and eventually without knowing itbecome brainwashed into it I suspect- I know this might sound harshto some people - just a viewpoint to consider. Even me, I felt I wasexpected to go with the rest of the sheep otherwise I would notreally be welcome at the meetings. I am not saying there is no selfgain by these rituals etc but I think they are just keeping sahajayoga a small sect - problem is, when you're in there living it,ofcourse you don't see it as a sect. I still believe sahaja yoga canbe extremely unhealthy for some peoples minds because of all thethings Jagbir has mentioned. My first few weeks were great until allthe other stuff got introduced to me gradually confusing me. Few moremonths down the line I started to feel disturbed. The superstition insahaj needs to be eradicated quickly if we are to attract more peopleand stop them from deteriorating psychologically. Some people atthese meetings carry on like they are qualified mental healthpractitioners or doctors haha.....and the scary part is they don'teven realize it half the time. They issue out all kinds of advice topeople with serious conditions they themselves have neverexperienced.. leading them on to believe their ridiculous treatmentswill make a major difference...even cure you. It is a struggle forthem to recommend a doctor or someone who doesn't have a cool breezeemitting from somewhere. Better to take advice from someone with somecool breeze and no qualifications than someone with no cool breezebut a lifetime of professional medical experience.Right, better foot-soak with some salt.

[Guest guest]

Dear Adam,

 

1980-4-12 Easter Puja part 4/4 is about Jesus and the Last Judgment.

Just wanted you to know how vital and important it is, far over and

above the SYSSReligion.

 

The quote:

 

" All these (chakra cleansing) rituals have entered into Sahaja Yoga.

I got somebody in France with the list of the (subtle system)

treatments of Vashi hospital. But that was for sick peoples. This is

the nature of human being to follow the rituals because he thinks

that he can do it. "

 

is from another talk. It is to remind all of us how corruption has

entered Sahaja Yoga .............. and it is Shri Mataji who is

saying so.

 

Except for footsoaking and shoe-beating, i have not heard of Shri

Mataji talking about any external treatments, though She may have

prescribed them in private for certain newcomers i.e., 'sick' people.

 

As i have said before all external rituals--lemons and chillies,

matka, footsoaking, candle treatment, string/paper-burning--are

placebos to focus the attention on the problem. That is why SYs keep

taking them day after day, week after week, month after month, year

after year, decade after decade. They want the (visible, external)

lemons to suck the negativity ............ instead of the (invisible,

internal) Kundalini. They are still trying despite decades of failure.

 

merry christmas and a happy new year too,

 

jagbir

 

 

Note: i thank everyone who have sent me greetings.

 

 

, lunduner1 wrote:

>

>

> Dear Jagbir, sorry for the long delay. Someone gave me a copy of

> 1980-4-12 Easter Puja part 4/4 (75_-_Easter_Puja_IV_-

> _1980-04-12.mp3). There was nothing in it about external

treatments

> entering into sahaja yoga so I'm not quite sure what you were

trying

> to show me in relation to the below past posts? Nevertheless there

is

> some good stuff in that talk. If you could recommend specific

talks

> where Sri Mataji makes reference to these external treatments then

I

> would be very interested to hear them.

>

> Anyway, maybe respond next year after your holiday...hope you have

a

> good holiday so Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

>

> Adam

>

>

>

>

>

>

The superstition in sahaj needs to be eradicated quickly if we are t

> Posted by: " jagbir singh " adishakti_org adishakti_org

> Thu Nov 6, 2008 8:12 am (PST)

>

> , Adam Simpson

> <lunduner1@> wrote:

> >

> > How does this work Jagbir? Are not going against Sri Mataji by

> > your views because Sri Mataji has been encouraging all these

things

> > you say we don't need? Are you suggesting she has not been

accurate

> > with everything perhaps? and some things we have to dissect for

> > ourselves?

> >

>

> Dear Adam,

>

> i have come a long way from that all-consuming catch culture of

> our SY collectives. i have experienced for years that it is possible

> to be catch-free and have vibrations flowing from both hands 24/7,

> provided you leave it entirely to the Mother Kundalini:

>

> " Kundalini will rise and She will cleanse you completely. Kundalini

> will rise and always cleanse the chakras. "

>

> Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

> Sydney, Australia, March 31, 1991

>

> For the majority of SYs that is not possible and i must be making it

> up. As new SYs are made to believe: " You can never be catch-free " , i

> guess i must be lying that the Mother Kundalini is capable of

> ridding all catches. And Shri Mataji must be too! Otherwise how did

> the 1001 treatments of SYSSR come into being, and what was their

> need if the Mother Kundalini will rise and always cleanse the

chakras?

>

> " All these (chakra cleansing) rituals have entered into Sahaja Yoga.

> I got somebody in France with the list of the (subtle system)

> treatments of Vashi hospital. But that was for sick peoples. This is

> the nature of human being to follow the rituals because he thinks

> that he can do it. "

>

> Shri Mataji, 25 December 1997, Christmas Puja, India

>

> i have repeatedly explained that SYs have corrupted Her teachings

and

> made the SYSSReligion out of them. Yet there is no end to foolish

SYs

> going against Her because it " is the nature of human being to follow

> the rituals because he thinks that he can do it. "

>

> Adam, i hope you did listen to 1980-4-12 Easter Puja part 4/4. After

> listening to it, you should be abe to give up all your foolish ideas

> about your seeking through the SYSSReligion, a seeking that has

> mislead you and is keeping many away from Resurrection:

>

> " It is just for money and power are some people, who are trying to

> mislead others, keeping them away from Resurrection. I must say they

> are committing the greatest sin against the Holy Ghost. "

>

> Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

> Public Program, Brussels, Belgium, 1 July 1993

>

> " But now give up all nonsensical ideas about your seeking and

useless

> ramblings Seeking means not knowing about anything but becoming

> something.

>

> For that, Christ crucified Himself. He resurrected Himself so that

> you all could be resurrected, so you have to, today, thank Him for

> giving you the lead of resurrection and in this lifetime only, you

> are going to be resurrected and you are going to see, with your own

> eyes, your resurrection as the disciples saw the resurrection of

> Christ. This is being all promised and this must happen to all of

you.

>

> So we should rejoice and be happy that the time has come for the

> resurrection and such a great event we are facing. We are such a

> people-give up our small visions and our petty hankerings, our small

> little lives in which we live like frogs. Expand yourself and think

> that today you are facing the drama of mass resurrection, not only

> that, but you are maneuvering it. So rejoice and be happy that what

> Christ did 2,000 years back, today we are going to do it. That's why

> Easter is a special day for all of us. It really is a very special

> day because in our lives the death has died and we are resurrected. "

>

> Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi

>

> ------------------------

>

> Adam, before i reply please listen to 1980-4-12 Easter Puja part 4/4

>

> How does this work Jagbir? Are not going against Sri Mataji by your

> views because Sri Mataji has been encouraging all these things you

> say we don't need? Are you suggesting she has not been accurate with

> everything perhaps? and some things we have to dissect for

ourselves?

>

> But you are right though. Most people I have ever brought to the

> programs do not really want to go to pujas or take part in the

> external rituals- first reactions from people are usually along the

> lines of 'is this really necessary?'. They kind of just go along

with

> it after some sweet talking - and eventually without knowing it

> become brainwashed into it I suspect- I know this might sound harsh

> to some people - just a viewpoint to consider. Even me, I felt I was

> expected to go with the rest of the sheep otherwise I would not

> really be welcome at the meetings. I am not saying there is no self

> gain by these rituals etc but I think they are just keeping sahaja

> yoga a small sect - problem is, when you're in there living it,

> ofcourse you don't see it as a sect. I still believe sahaja yoga can

> be extremely unhealthy for some peoples minds because of all the

> things Jagbir has mentioned. My first few weeks were great until all

> the other stuff got introduced to me gradually confusing me. Few

more

> months down the line I started to feel disturbed. The superstition

in

> sahaj needs to be eradicated quickly if we are to attract more

people

> and stop them from deteriorating psychologically. Some people at

> these meetings carry on like they are qualified mental health

> practitioners or doctors haha.....and the scary part is they don't

> even realize it half the time. They issue out all kinds of advice to

> people with serious conditions they themselves have never

> experienced.. leading them on to believe their ridiculous treatments

> will make a major difference...even cure you. It is a struggle for

> them to recommend a doctor or someone who doesn't have a cool breeze

> emitting from somewhere. Better to take advice from someone with

some

> cool breeze and no qualifications than someone with no cool breeze

> but a lifetime of professional medical experience.

>

> Right, better foot-soak with some salt.

>