God's Word or Human Words - Part 7

[Guest guest]

Dear All,

 

We concluded Part 6 with the following:

 

(p.90) Irenaeus himself tried to forge a middle ground. Unlike Gaius, he refused

to draw a sharp line between the apostolic age and the present. After all, he

himself had received revelation--for example, on the day of Polycarp's death.

(p.91) He had heard, too, that Polycarp, while hiding from the police, had

dreamed that his pillow caught fire and prophesied that " I am to be burnt

alive. " [42] Irenaeus also heard from the martyrs in his own town, as well as

from other Christians, that such things still happen:

 

We hear many brothers and sisters in the church who have prophetic gifts,

speaking through the spirit in all kinds of tongues, and bringing things hidden

from human beings into clarity, and revealing the mysteries of God. [43]

 

Beyond Belief (The Secret Gospel of Thomas), Chapter 3, p. 90-91

 

Notes:

 

[42] 'Martyrdom of St. Polycarp' 5.

 

[43] Irenaeus, AH 5.6.1.

 

Here now, is Part 7.

 

Enjoy,

 

violet

 

 

 

God's Word or Human Words - Part 7

 

(p.91) So Irenaeus challenged those who suggested that miracle stories in the

gospels were not to be taken literally, or that miracles no longer happen:

 

Those who are truly his disciples actually do drive out demons.... Others

foresee things that will happen; they see visions and speak prophecies...

others, still, heal the sick by laying their hands upon them, and they are

completely healthy....

 

Yes, and furthermore, as I have said, even the dead have been raised up, and

they have remained alive among us for many years. What more should I say? It is

not possible to tell how many gifts which the church throughout the world has

received in the name of Jesus Christ, and uses every day to benefit the nations,

neither deceiving anyone, nor taking any money. [44]

 

These miracles attracted crowds of newcomers to Christian groups, despite the

danger. Those who receive healing, Irenaeus added, " often believe and join the

church. " [45]

 

(p.91) Although Irenaeus stopped short of defending Maximilla, Montanus, and

Priscilla, or even mentioning the new prophets by name--if, indeed, he knew

their names--he criticized their opponents for wrongly " disregarding both the

gospel [of John] and the spirit of prophecy. " He reminded his contemporaries

that Paul, too, not only received visions and spoke prophecies but also

" recognized men and women prophesying in the churches. " [46]

 

But the immediate problem Irenaeus confronted in Lyons was not a lack of

spiritual revelation but an overwhelming surplus. Perhaps he refrained from

criticizing the new prophets because he thought the things they said when they

spoke " in the spirit " did not deviate that much from the tradition he accepted.

But 'other' would-be prophets said and did things he thought were completely

wrong, and Irenaeus judged them to be schismatics and frauds. The problem was

how to discriminate: " How, " he asked, " can we tell the difference between the

word of God and mere human words? " [47]

 

What especially troubled Irenaeus was that " even in our own district of the

Rhone valley, " a prophet named Marcus was causing a stir among believers; he had

attracted from Irenaeus's congregation

 

a great number of men and quite a few women... whom he [had] persuaded to join

him, as one who possesses the greatest understanding and maturity, and who has

received the highest power from the invisible and ineffable regions above. [48]

 

Although his account is hostile, and accuses Marcus of being an agent of Satan,

Irenaeus offers a detailed picture of what this prophet did. (p.93) Marcus not

only received visions and spoke in prophecy himself but also encouraged others

to do so. When someone asked Marcus to invoke the power of the spirit, Marcus

would place his hands upon the person's head and offer prayer that echoed Jesus'

words from the Gospel of Matthew ( " Do not despise the little ones, for, I tell

you, their angels continually see the face of my Father in heaven " ). [49] Marcus

prayed for each initiate that " you may receive grace, since the Father of all

sees your angel standing before him. " Then he placed his hands upon the person's

head and said, " Behold, grace has descended upon you; open your mouth, and

prophesy. " Then, Irenaeus says, the candidate would protest, having been

instructed to do so, that " I have not at any time prophesied, nor do I know how

to prophesy, " in order to acknowledge that prophecy has nothing to do with

natural human capacity but only with the gift of divine grace. Finally Marcus

again would encourage the initiate to speak prophecy--often, Irenaeus says, a

" foolish woman " --and at that point, he says indignantly,

 

she, then, puffed up with vanity and elated by these words, and enormously

excited in soul by expecting that she herself is about to prophesy, her heart

beating wildly, reaches the necessary pitch of audacity, and, foolishly as well

as brazenly, utters whatever nonsense happens to occur to her, such as one might

expect from someone heated up by an empty spirit. [50] [break Quote]

 

 

Folks, in regards to these quotes, [46] and [47]]....

 

(p.92) " He [irenaeus] reminded his contemporaries that Paul, too, not only

received visions and spoke prophecies but also " recognized men and women

prophesying in the churches. " [46]

 

But the immediate problem Irenaeus confronted in Lyons was not a lack of

spiritual revelation but an overwhelming surplus. Perhaps he refrained from

criticizing the new prophets because he thought the things they said when they

spoke " in the spirit " did not deviate that much from the tradition he accepted.

But 'other' would-be prophets said and did things he thought were completely

wrong, and Irenaeus judged them to be schismatics and frauds. The problem was

how to discriminate: " How, " he asked, " can we tell the difference between the

word of God and mere human words? " [47]

 

..... it is clear here, that Irenaeus and others accepted Paul as the example to

follow, with regard to 'received visions' and 'prophecies' - not to mention

Paul's encouragement that others prophecy also, just like him: " Now I wish that

you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is

one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues " .. (1 Corinthians 14:5a). It

was Paul's accepted example of 'received visions' and 'prophecies' and his

encouragement of the same in others, that likely resulted in there being " not a

lack of spiritual revelations, but an overwhelming surplus " - resulting in

Irenaeus questioning: " How can we tell the difference between the word of God

and mere human words? " [47] I am sure it would surprise Irenaeus, if he were

alive today, and if he read what Shri Mataji explains here - about it being a

mistake that Paul even got into the Bible!:

 

" In the Bible the mistake came when Saint Paul, who never knew Christ--he had

nothing to do with Christ--just entered into the Bible. I don't know, why he is

there. He was not a realised soul. He was just [a] supraconscious Roman soldier.

Roman, very bad soldier, who used to kill so many Christians. And suddenly they

entered this Mr. Saint Paul into it and he is accepted in the Bible all over the

world. But you read him and you will know he is not a realised soul at all. He

talks in a supraconscious way. He is an organising machine and he is good for

nothing. There he describes, in the Acts you see, which he has written--many

people may not be knowing that Acts has been written by Mr. Paul himself--and

this Mr. Paul tries to describe the disciples of Christ as supraconscious

bhoots, absolutely like supraconscious people and they behaved in such a funny

manner that everybody started feeling that they are mad. Can you imagine,

Christ's disciples behaving like that! But you have to gulp it down and devour

everything if you are a Christian. Because it is in the Bible. And you start

questioning if you are a born-realised person, that what is this non-sense, who

is this Mr. Paul? From where does he come in? Because he does not talk like

Christ. "

 

Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, Formal Talk 'Agnya Chakra', Delhi, India - 03/02/83.

 

 

[Resume Quote]:

 

We left off with:

 

" Finally Marcus again would encourage the initiate to speak prophecy--often,

Irenaeus says, a " foolish woman " --and at that point, he says indignantly,

 

she, then, puffed up with vanity and elated by these words, and enormously

excited in soul by expecting that she herself is about to prophesy, her heart

beating wildly, reaches the necessary pitch of audacity, and, foolishly as well

as brazenly, utters whatever nonsense happens to occur to her, such as one might

expect from someone heated up by an empty spirit. [50]

 

Continuing On:

 

(p.93) Having received the spirit through this initiation, each member of

Marcus's circle believed that he or she shared " the gift of prophecy. " (p.94)

When they would gather to celebrate the sacred meal, the eucharist, Irenaeus

says that " all of them [were] accustomed to cast lots. " Thus they followed an

ancient Israelite practice, which, as Luke says in Acts, Christians revived, of

throwing lots in order to invite the holy spirit to show, by the way the lots

fell, whom the spirit chose to offer that day's prophecy. [51]

 

As Irenaeus tells it--perhaps adding details for the sake of sensation--Marcus

claimed that divine truth had revealed itself to him naked, " in feminine form,

having descended upon him from invisible and ineffable space, for the world

could not have borne [the truth] coming in masculine form. " [52] According to

Irenaeus, Marcus said that she revealed herself through letters and numbers,

each part of her body adorned with one of the twenty-four letters of the Greek

alphabet; and she spoke the mystical name " Christ Jesus. " [53] The letters and

numbers in which Marcus received his vision reflected Jewish traditions known to

followers of his spiritual teacher, Valentinus, who claimed to be initiated into

Paul's secret wisdom teaching. Similar traditions would flower, more than a

thousand years later, among mystically inclined Jewish groups, who would call

them 'kabbalah'.

 

Beyond Belief (The Secret Gospel of Thomas), Chapter 3, p. 91-94

Elaine Pagels

Vintage Books, New York, U.S.A

ISBN: 0-375-70316-0

 

Notes:

 

[44] Ibid., 2.32.4.

 

[45] Ibid.

 

[46] Ibid., 3.11.9.

 

[47] Ibid., 2.13.8.

 

[48] Ibid., 1.13.1. This discussion paraphrases, to some extent, what is

described in Pagels, 'Gnostic Gospels', 59-61.

 

[49] Ibid. Marcus's prayer alludes to Matthew 18:10.

 

[50] Irenaeus, AH 1.13.3.

 

[51] Ibid., 1.13.4; see Acts 1:17-26.

 

[52] Irenaeus, AH 1.14.1.

 

[53] Ibid., 1.14.4.