Guest guest Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Namaste, I have to clear another doubt here, this is from the works of Acharya that i found in the Translation works of his work. As i am reading its a fact that it is not from the verses of Saundaryalahiri but from the book of the same of Saundaryalahiri.its title is Acarya for Both Paths is where one can find my below work. Saroja auny, it is about can a same person speak thus in two different ways? Which of the two is truth? Is the one the truth and the other untruth? Should Acharya have spoken in two different ways, in two different voices? Logically both cannot be the truth, however the attributes of truth are always not logically determined what ever is dear to you and also good for you must be treated as the truth. Acharya exhorts here such as those who are in a mature stage and who make effort to see the One entity hat is the root of all to reject the universe divided as it is multifariously. There are people who cannot all at once do away with worldly maters and are not mature enough to reach the state of jnana.The Acharya only shows the path of devotion and he does so regarding it as a way for them to become mature. The heading is Achary , " babitha70 " <babitha70 wrote: t> > is telling lie good or bad? > > When a child is sick and skiny and haveing diarrohes mother administrates a bitter medcine telling that it is sweet, is she speaking lie? No she is telling the trueth. ANother child suffering from diarrohea wants to eat sweets but his mother tells him that it is arappukatti and stops him from eating. Is she also now not telling alie. What is the trueth.The criterion in judging whether or not something is a truth is that it must be good for others . But what is benefical to some must not be harmful to the other, which means that what we consider truthful must not do harm to the anybody.people for whose well being a system is being expounded must accept it as something that they like they must also be able to follow it without difficulty. > > it is with this good intention that ones system is elevated and another lowered in relation to it. the purpose is not to show that the latter is in fact worthless. The real idea behind deviating a system over another is that the individual who receives instruction in it will appreciate that is the one tha is meant for him, when he finds that it is the one best suited to him he will follow it with intrest concentrating on it. > > pranam, > Babitha > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Dear Babitha,I cannot answer your question with out knowing what was the text you quoted from acharya and what do you mean by two books on soundarya lahiri etc.saroja Ramanujam . Dr. SarojaRamanujam , M.A., Ph.D, sanskritsiromanireply to sarojram18 and to get the previous posts--- On Sun, 8/23/09, babitha70 <babitha70 wrote:babitha70 <babitha70 Re: Teaching of Shankara- Is telling lie bad or good? Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 7:14 PM Namaste, I have to clear another doubt here, this is from the works of Acharya that i found in the Translation works of his work. As i am reading its a fact that it is not from the verses of Saundaryalahiri but from the book of the same of Saundaryalahiri. its title is Acarya for Both Paths is where one can find my below work. Saroja auny, it is about can a same person speak thus in two different ways? Which of the two is truth? Is the one the truth and the other untruth? Should Acharya have spoken in two different ways, in two different voices? Logically both cannot be the truth, however the attributes of truth are always not logically determined what ever is dear to you and also good for you must be treated as the truth. Acharya exhorts here such as those who are in a mature stage and who make effort to see the One entity hat is the root of all to reject the universe divided as it is multifariously. There are people who cannot all at once do away with worldly maters and are not mature enough to reach the state of jnana.The Acharya only shows the path of devotion and he does so regarding it as a way for them to become mature. The heading is Acharysrimookambika- devi@ .com, "babitha70" <babitha70@. ..> wrote: t> > is telling lie good or bad? > > When a child is sick and skiny and haveing diarrohes mother administrates a bitter medcine telling that it is sweet, is she speaking lie? No she is telling the trueth. ANother child suffering from diarrohea wants to eat sweets but his mother tells him that it is arappukatti and stops him from eating. Is she also now not telling alie. What is the trueth.The criterion in judging whether or not something is a truth is that it must be good for others . But what is benefical to some must not be harmful to the other, which means that what we consider truthful must not do harm to the anybody.people for whose well being a system is being expounded must accept it as something that they like they must also be able to follow it without difficulty. > > it is with this good intention that ones system is elevated and another lowered in relation to it. the purpose is not to show that the latter is in fact worthless. The real idea behind deviating a system over another is that the individual who receives instruction in it will appreciate that is the one tha is meant for him, when he finds that it is the one best suited to him he will follow it with intrest concentrating on it. > > pranam, > Babitha > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2009 Report Share Posted August 23, 2009 Namaste aunty Saroja, Firstly, thank you for accepting my invitation to join the grop. The book is called Voice of the Guru,by Pujyasri Candrasekharandra Sarasvati Swami. Chapter 23 Title Acarya for Both Paths.Page No 102. Yes like Pradeep brother please explain to enlighten us . Pranam, Babitha , " babitha70 " <babitha70 wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > I have to clear another doubt here, this is from the works of Acharya that i found in the Translation works of his work. As i am reading its a fact that it is not from the verses of Saundaryalahiri but from the book of the same of Saundaryalahiri.its title is Acarya for Both Paths is where one can find my below work. > > Saroja auny, it is about can a same person speak thus in two different ways? Which of the two is truth? Is the one the truth > and the other untruth? Should Acharya have spoken in two different ways, in two different voices? > > Logically both cannot be the truth, however the attributes of truth are always not logically determined what ever is dear to you and also good for you must be treated as the truth. > > Acharya exhorts here such as those who are in a mature stage and who make effort to see the One entity hat is the root of all to reject the universe divided as it is multifariously. > > There are people who cannot all at once do away with worldly maters and are not mature enough to reach the state of jnana.The Acharya only shows the path of devotion and he does so regarding it as a way for them to become mature. > The heading is Achary , " babitha70 " <babitha70@> wrote: > t> > > is telling lie good or bad? > > > > When a child is sick and skiny and haveing diarrohes mother administrates a bitter medcine telling that it is sweet, is she speaking lie? No she is telling the trueth. ANother child suffering from diarrohea wants to eat sweets but his mother tells him that it is arappukatti and stops him from eating. Is she also now not telling alie. What is the trueth.The criterion in judging whether or not something is a truth is that it must be good for others . But what is benefical to some must not be harmful to the other, which means that what we consider truthful must not do harm to the anybody.people for whose well being a system is being expounded must accept it as something that they like they must also be able to follow it without difficulty. > > > > it is with this good intention that ones system is elevated and another lowered in relation to it. the purpose is not to show that the latter is in fact worthless. The real idea behind deviating a system over another is that the individual who receives instruction in it will appreciate that is the one tha is meant for him, when he finds that it is the one best suited to him he will follow it with intrest concentrating on it. > > > > pranam, > > Babitha > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Dear Babitha and Pradeep, Thank you for your response. I do not have the book Babitha has mentioned and I cannot comment on that. Any way I will give my comments on the subject of telling a lie.I have read though the writings of Paramcharya and remember having read once that telling a child a lie for its welfare is right and not a sin. There is nothing wrong in that thougjh I dont see the connection between that and soundaryalahari because I do not know which sloka Babitha referred to. I have the text of Soundaryalahari and if I know the no. of the sloka I can refer and tell you. Anyway the upanishad says,sathyam brooyaath priyam brooyaath nabrooyath sathyam apriyampriyam cha na anrtham brooyaath esha DharmaH sanaathanaHThis is the principle to follow. One should speak truth and should speak pleasingly. One should not speak unpleasant truth. And also should not speak untruth which is pleasing. This is the ancient Dharma. A well wisher should speak only the truth which is beneficial. Sathyam brooyaath. He should speak lovingly. Priyam brooyaath. But he should not speak the truth if it is not pleasant, na brooyaath sathyam apriyam, that is., which is harmful. Apriyam here means that which is not pleasant by way of doing harm. But untruth should not be spoken just because it will please the listener, priyam cha na anrtham brooyaath. Mareecha advised Ravana against his abduction of Seetha and Vibheeshana told him to return Seetha. Both were well-wishers and spoke the truth that Ravana will be destroyed by not listening to their advice. They spoke to him with love and concern. This is the example of sathyam brooyaath priyam brooyaath. This also illustrates the first line of the above sloka That one should give the beneficial advice if he is the well-wisher even unasked. There is a story that shows the meaning of na brooyaath sathyam apriyam. A cow was fleeing from men, who were pursuing it wishing to kill, and it went round a hermitage where a sage was sitting outside meditating. The pursuers came and asked the sage whether he saw a cow coming that way. The sage replied that the eye do not speak and the tongue does not hear. Thinking that he was mad the pursuers went away. What the sage meant was that the eyes saw the cow but could not speak and the tongue could speak but had not seen the cow. Thus he did not speak the truth yet he neither spoke untruth. This is a case of na brooyaath sathyam apriyam as it was apriyam harmful to the cow. Seetha told the rakshasis, who asked her whether she knew Hanuman, that she did not know. She spoke untruth but it was in accordance with dharma that one should not cause harm to others even by telling the truth because ahimsa takes precedence over all else. Rama similarly told Sumanthra, when Dasaratha was asking him to stop on their way to the forest, to drive fast and tell the king later that he could not hear the command to stop. This again was to avoid giving pain to Dasaratha by prolonging the agony of separation. Surpanakha told Ravana the untruth that she was trying to bring Seetha to him and was punished by Lakshmana, which was pleasing to Ravana but it brought him destruction. This is the case of priyam cha na anrtham brooyaath, one should not speak an untruth just to please another.sarojaramanujam . Dr. SarojaRamanujam , M.A., Ph.D, sanskritsiromanireply to sarojram18 and to get the previous posts--- On Sun, 8/23/09, babitha70 <babitha70 wrote:babitha70 <babitha70 Re: Teaching of Shankara- Is telling lie bad or good? Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 10:42 PM Namaste aunty Saroja, Firstly, thank you for accepting my invitation to join the grop. The book is called Voice of the Guru,by Pujyasri Candrasekharandra Sarasvati Swami. Chapter 23 Title Acarya for Both Paths.Page No 102. Yes like Pradeep brother please explain to enlighten us . Pranam, Babitha srimookambika- devi@ .com, "babitha70" <babitha70@. ..> wrote: > > > > Namaste, > > I have to clear another doubt here, this is from the works of Acharya that i found in the Translation works of his work. As i am reading its a fact that it is not from the verses of Saundaryalahiri but from the book of the same of Saundaryalahiri. its title is Acarya for Both Paths is where one can find my below work. > > Saroja auny, it is about can a same person speak thus in two different ways? Which of the two is truth? Is the one the truth > and the other untruth? Should Acharya have spoken in two different ways, in two different voices? > > Logically both cannot be the truth, however the attributes of truth are always not logically determined what ever is dear to you and also good for you must be treated as the truth. > > Acharya exhorts here such as those who are in a mature stage and who make effort to see the One entity hat is the root of all to reject the universe divided as it is multifariously. > > There are people who cannot all at once do away with worldly maters and are not mature enough to reach the state of jnana.The Acharya only shows the path of devotion and he does so regarding it as a way for them to become mature. > > > > > > > > The heading is Acharysrimookambika- devi@ .com, "babitha70" <babitha70@> wrote: > t> > > is telling lie good or bad? > > > > When a child is sick and skiny and haveing diarrohes mother administrates a bitter medcine telling that it is sweet, is she speaking lie? No she is telling the trueth. ANother child suffering from diarrohea wants to eat sweets but his mother tells him that it is arappukatti and stops him from eating. Is she also now not telling alie. What is the trueth.The criterion in judging whether or not something is a truth is that it must be good for others . But what is benefical to some must not be harmful to the other, which means that what we consider truthful must not do harm to the anybody.people for whose well being a system is being expounded must accept it as something that they like they must also be able to follow it without difficulty. > > > > it is with this good intention that ones system is elevated and another lowered in relation to it. the purpose is not to show that the latter is in fact worthless. The real idea behind deviating a system over another is that the individual who receives instruction in it will appreciate that is the one tha is meant for him, when he finds that it is the one best suited to him he will follow it with intrest concentrating on it. > > > > pranam, > > Babitha > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Dear all forgive for the nonsence in me... Amma Soraja……..thank you for removing some ignorance in me. Remembering writing of Paramachary that telling lie to a child for its welfare is right and not a sin (A moral stand stating it is no sin and can be constituted as right. That is stating that in such event telling lie it is not a punishable offence). Offence it is and wrong there are ways that one can still communicate to the child to please without telling a lie that is hat one must inculcate and apply. This will make the child that is growing to find smart ways of telling lie that pleases the parents and the people of the community. As you further explained with examples it really put this tharka to rest and thank you again Amma. So no soundrya lahari and the shankara ( adi shankara teaching ) and so on and so fort interpretation just to feed the ego. God bless….with more learning opportunity and let us put effort & time to study instead of copy and paste and pass half knowledge. I do not have much knowledge nor I have read Upnishads a common sense was that made my bell ring inside me that there couldn’t be a justification to transform lie into truth by any swami or the belief of God that came into existence from fear some say it is from love. pradeep --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Saroja Ramanujam <sarojram18 wrote: Saroja Ramanujam <sarojram18Re: Re: Teaching of Shankara- Is telling lie bad or good? Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 6:26 AM Dear Babitha and Pradeep, Thank you for your response. I do not have the book Babitha has mentioned and I cannot comment on that. Any way I will give my comments on the subject of telling a lie.I have read though the writings of Paramcharya and remember having read once that telling a child a lie for its welfare is right and not a sin. There is nothing wrong in that thougjh I dont see the connection between that and soundaryalahari because I do not know which sloka Babitha referred to. I have the text of Soundaryalahari and if I know the no. of the sloka I can refer and tell you. Anyway the upanishad says,sathyam brooyaath priyam brooyaath nabrooyath sathyam apriyampriyam cha na anrtham brooyaath esha DharmaH sanaathanaHThis is the principle to follow. One should speak truth and should speak pleasingly. One should not speak unpleasant truth. And also should not speak untruth which is pleasing. This is the ancient Dharma. A well wisher should speak only the truth which is beneficial. Sathyam brooyaath. He should speak lovingly. Priyam brooyaath. But he should not speak the truth if it is not pleasant, na brooyaath sathyam apriyam, that is., which is harmful. Apriyam here means that which is not pleasant by way of doing harm. But untruth should not be spoken just because it will please the listener, priyam cha na anrtham brooyaath. Mareecha advised Ravana against his abduction of Seetha and Vibheeshana told him to return Seetha. Both were well-wishers and spoke the truth that Ravana will be destroyed by not listening to their advice. They spoke to him with love and concern. This is the example of sathyam brooyaath priyam brooyaath. This also illustrates the first line of the above sloka That one should give the beneficial advice if he is the well-wisher even unasked. There is a story that shows the meaning of na brooyaath sathyam apriyam. A cow was fleeing from men, who were pursuing it wishing to kill, and it went round a hermitage where a sage was sitting outside meditating. The pursuers came and asked the sage whether he saw a cow coming that way. The sage replied that the eye do not speak and the tongue does not hear. Thinking that he was mad the pursuers went away. What the sage meant was that the eyes saw the cow but could not speak and the tongue could speak but had not seen the cow. Thus he did not speak the truth yet he neither spoke untruth. This is a case of na brooyaath sathyam apriyam as it was apriyam harmful to the cow. Seetha told the rakshasis, who asked her whether she knew Hanuman, that she did not know. She spoke untruth but it was in accordance with dharma that one should not cause harm to others even by telling the truth because ahimsa takes precedence over all else. Rama similarly told Sumanthra, when Dasaratha was asking him to stop on their way to the forest, to drive fast and tell the king later that he could not hear the command to stop. This again was to avoid giving pain to Dasaratha by prolonging the agony of separation. Surpanakha told Ravana the untruth that she was trying to bring Seetha to him and was punished by Lakshmana, which was pleasing to Ravana but it brought him destruction. This is the case of priyam cha na anrtham brooyaath, one should not speak an untruth just to please another. sarojaramanujam . Dr. SarojaRamanujam , M.A., Ph.D, sanskritsiromani reply to sarojram18 (AT) gmail (DOT) com and to get the previous posts--- On Sun, 8/23/09, babitha70 <babitha70 > wrote: babitha70 <babitha70 >[srimookambika- devi] Re: Teaching of Shankara- Is telling lie bad or good?srimookambika- devi@ .comSunday, August 23, 2009, 10:42 PM Namaste aunty Saroja,Firstly, thank you for accepting my invitation to join the grop.The book is called Voice of the Guru,by Pujyasri Candrasekharandra Sarasvati Swami. Chapter 23 Title Acarya for Both Paths.Page No 102.Yes like Pradeep brother please explain to enlighten us .Pranam,Babithasrimookambika- devi@ .com, "babitha70" <babitha70@. ..> wrote:>> > > Namaste,> > I have to clear another doubt here, this is from the works of Acharya that i found in the Translation works of his work. As i am reading its a fact that it is not from the verses of Saundaryalahiri but from the book of the same of Saundaryalahiri. its title is Acarya for Both Paths is where one can find my below work.> > Saroja auny, it is about can a same person speak thus in two different ways? Which of the two is truth? Is the one the truth> and the other untruth? Should Acharya have spoken in two different ways, in two different voices?> > Logically both cannot be the truth, however the attributes of truth are always not logically determined what ever is dear to you and also good for you must be treated as the truth.> > Acharya exhorts here such as those who are in a mature stage and who make effort to see the One entity hat is the root of all to reject the universe divided as it is multifariously.> > There are people who cannot all at once do away with worldly maters and are not mature enough to reach the state of jnana.The Acharya only shows the path of devotion and he does so regarding it as a way for them to become mature.> > > > > > > > The heading is Acharysrimookambika- devi@ .com, "babitha70" <babitha70@> wrote:> t>> > is telling lie good or bad?> > > > When a child is sick and skiny and haveing diarrohes mother administrates a bitter medcine telling that it is sweet, is she speaking lie? No she is telling the trueth. ANother child suffering from diarrohea wants to eat sweets but his mother tells him that it is arappukatti and stops him from eating. Is she also now not telling alie. What is the trueth.The criterion in judging whether or not something is a truth is that it must be good for others . But what is benefical to some must not be harmful to the other, which means that what we consider truthful must not do harm to the anybody.people for whose well being a system is being expounded must accept it as something that they like they must also be able to follow it without difficulty.> > > > it is with this good intention that ones system is elevated and another lowered in relation to it. the purpose is not to show that the latter is in fact worthless. The real idea behind deviating a system over another is that the individual who receives instruction in it will appreciate that is the one tha is meant for him, when he finds that it is the one best suited to him he will follow it with intrest concentrating on it.> > > > pranam,> > Babitha> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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