Guest guest Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Dear Friends, My name is Palanivel and I am a student here in the US. Recently while discussing with my north Indian friends I came to know that they believe Lord Murugan to be the eldest than Lord Ganesa...... I tried convincing with lots of webpage links and the start lines of Skanda Guru Kavacham which states that " Kaliyuga Dheivame ....Kandanukku Moothonne ...."....but still they werent convinced..... So any of you could you please give me some authentic text or references which I cud use to prove that Lord Murugan is the youngest "chella pillai" of Umamaheshwari.... With lots of thanx palanivel Meet the all-new My – Try it today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Dear Palanivel, As one who grew up in a Northern Indian environment, I can confirm that the Northerners have got some perceptions of Murugan, which are very different from the South. For one, in North India belief, Murugan is Karthik - a bachelor. (In fact, in a particular town in NOrth India, women are not encouraged to enter the temple of Karthik Dev!! Why? Because He is a bachelor!!). Another example: In North India, Lord Ganesh is married with two wives - Sidhi & Budhi. However, down South, Lord Ganesh is portrayed as a single, still seated at the river bank, looking for the ideal bride who will have the admirable qualities of His Mother Uma Parvati. Re your query, I do not have any Sanskrit text (which will be more appropriate to cite to North Indians), but there is an important line in one particular Thirupugaz that confirms that Murugan is the younger son of Lord Shiva's two sons. The Thirupugaz is dedicated to Thiruthani Muguran and begins like this: " Ninaitha-thetthaniyir Thavaramal... The particular line in this Thiruppugaz goes like this: " Chenittha Puttarir - Siriyone Thirutthani Pathiyil Perumane " Translated: " Of the two sons of Lord Siva - Oh You Younger One The Lord (Perumane!) who has manifested in Thiruttani " We know that The Lord in Thiruttani is Lord Murugan. I hope this is helpful. Patricia --- palanivel <velu82 wrote: > Dear Friends, > > My name is Palanivel and I am a student here in the > US. Recently while discussing with my north Indian > friends I came to know that they believe Lord > Murugan to be the eldest than Lord Ganesa...... I > tried convincing with lots of webpage links and the > start lines of Skanda Guru Kavacham which states > that " Kaliyuga Dheivame ....Kandanukku Moothonne > .... " ....but still they werent convinced..... > > So any of you could you please give me some > authentic text or references which I cud use to > prove that Lord Murugan is the youngest " chella > pillai " of Umamaheshwari.... > > With lots of thanx > palanivel > > Meet the all-new My – Try it today! Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile./maildemo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 palanivel writes: > Dear Friends, > > My name is Palanivel and I am a student here in the US. Recently while discussing with my north Indian friends I came to know that they believe Lord Murugan to be the eldest than Lord Ganesa...... I tried convincing with lots of webpage links and the start lines of Skanda Guru Kavacham which states that " Kaliyuga Dheivame ....Kandanukku Moothonne .... " ....but still they werent convinced..... > > So any of you could you please give me some authentic text or references which I cud use to prove that Lord Murugan is the youngest " chella pillai " of Umamaheshwari.... _________________________ Mr. Palani Vel, One must realise that UmaAmbaal, does not have any partiality to any of her sons, be it Vinayaka or Subrahmanya. Both are equal, which is why the " MANGO " episode took place (Ambal was not able to decide whom to give the MANGO to because she loved both of them _equally_). Besides I read the REply posted by 'Jay'. There again it is a misconception that North-Indian Murugan is a Brahmachari and South Indian Murugan is Married. On careful examination of some puranic texts, notably by Bhagwan Veda-Vyasa it turns out that there is only ONE and ONE Murugan (Known by some poplular names like Karthikeya (Karthik is a derived word of Karthikeya in a)Hindi b)KadiBoli (which is Hindi's Predecessor) c)Hindustani (which is a kind of purer dialect of Hindi; i.e. virtually contains NO Urdu words as opposed to Hindi d) Bengali e) Other Reigonal Languages Forked from either Sanskrit, Prakrit or Hindi. It only happens that over centuries, it's a standard which has been set by the people. Otherwise how would this arise -> " Shree Valli Devasena Sametha Shree Subrahmanyam ... " (THis is 100% PURE Sanskrit). Another thing i noticed is this -> While Ganesh is brahmachari in south, he is married in north .... etc. This is another misconception. Just as we feel North Indians have just removed Valli and Devasena Ambal from Muruga, it is no doubt that we too MIGHT have done the same. For in some puranas there is the strong mention of " Riddhi " and " Siddhi " as opposed to Siddhi and " Buddhi " being Ganapathi's consorts. Ofcourse there is nothing wrong in seeing him as a brahmachari. Some purana even goes far to the extent of declaring that Ganesh has two sons! " Kshem " and " Laabh " ! The only wrong this is to say " My God is a South Indian, your God is a North Indian " . There is nothing like South Indian, North Indian. THere is only one thing and that is " The Supreme Divine " . In case you wanted some solid evidence, there are many Thiruppugazh' by Saint Arunagirinathar which describe Lord Muruga as the younger and dear brother of Lord Vighnaharta. Here are some examples Song : " Kaitthala Niraikani " Phrase : " Acchiru Muruganai Akkanam ... " Comment : Acchiru ... That small... Song : " Mandralam .. " Phrase " Pandithan Thambi Enum Vayalura " Comment : Obvious. THirupparankundram THiruppugazh || Thiruchitrambalam || Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Thank you for the detailed explanation. Its very informative. But while the writer from dhandapani has explained from the purist Puranic perspective, I was sharing my observations of folk belief and practice. Because Mr Palanivel mentioned that his NOrth Indian friends had a different perception on the point, I thought it relevant to share what I had observed about North Indian perspective. Getting back to dhandapani,yes, there will be some inaccuracies between pure knowledge(as in Puranic texts)and practices (how folk interpret and practice them). So when I share my observation of how some people perceive or practise these principles, its just an observation. I have not taken any judgmental stand about who's right or who's wrong. So its not a misconception. Finally, I'm totally unaware of even remotely implying anything like " Your god is North Indian, my god is South Indian " . All I thought was that I was spontaneously sharing my knowledge to clarify Mr Palanivel's query. Regards Patricia --- dhandapani wrote: > palanivel writes: > > > Dear Friends, > > > > My name is Palanivel and I am a student here in > the US. Recently while discussing with my north > Indian friends I came to know that they believe Lord > Murugan to be the eldest than Lord Ganesa...... I > tried convincing with lots of webpage links and the > start lines of Skanda Guru Kavacham which states > that " Kaliyuga Dheivame ....Kandanukku Moothonne > .... " ....but still they werent convinced..... > > > > So any of you could you please give me some > authentic text or references which I cud use to > prove that Lord Murugan is the youngest " chella > pillai " of Umamaheshwari.... > _________________________ > > > Mr. Palani Vel, > > One must realise that UmaAmbaal, does not have any > partiality to any of her > sons, be it Vinayaka or Subrahmanya. Both are equal, > which is why the > " MANGO " episode took place (Ambal was not able to > decide whom to give the > MANGO to because she loved both of them _equally_). > > Besides I read the REply posted by 'Jay'. There > again it is a misconception > that North-Indian Murugan is a Brahmachari and South > Indian Murugan is > Married. On careful examination of some puranic > texts, notably by Bhagwan > Veda-Vyasa it turns out that there is only ONE and > ONE Murugan (Known by > some poplular names like Karthikeya (Karthik is a > derived word of Karthikeya > in a)Hindi b)KadiBoli (which is Hindi's Predecessor) > c)Hindustani (which is > a kind of purer dialect of Hindi; i.e. virtually > contains NO Urdu words as > opposed to Hindi d) Bengali e) Other Reigonal > Languages Forked from either > Sanskrit, Prakrit or Hindi. It only happens that > over centuries, it's a > standard which has been set by the people. Otherwise > how would this arise -> > " Shree Valli Devasena Sametha Shree Subrahmanyam > ... " (THis is 100% PURE > Sanskrit). > > Another thing i noticed is this -> While Ganesh is > brahmachari in south, he > is married in north .... etc. This is another > misconception. Just as we feel > North Indians have just removed Valli and Devasena > Ambal from Muruga, it is > no doubt that we too MIGHT have done the same. For > in some puranas there is > the strong mention of " Riddhi " and " Siddhi " as > opposed to Siddhi and > " Buddhi " being Ganapathi's consorts. Ofcourse there > is nothing wrong in > seeing him as a brahmachari. Some purana even goes > far to the extent of > declaring that Ganesh has two sons! " Kshem " and > " Laabh " ! The only wrong this > is to say " My God is a South Indian, your God is a > North Indian " . There is > nothing like South Indian, North Indian. THere is > only one thing and that is > " The Supreme Divine " . > > In case you wanted some solid evidence, there are > many Thiruppugazh' by > Saint Arunagirinathar which describe Lord Muruga as > the younger and dear > brother of Lord Vighnaharta. Here are some examples > > Song : " Kaitthala Niraikani " > Phrase : " Acchiru Muruganai Akkanam ... " > Comment : Acchiru ... That small... > > Song : " Mandralam .. " > Phrase " Pandithan Thambi Enum Vayalura " > Comment : Obvious. THirupparankundram THiruppugazh > > > || Thiruchitrambalam || > > Take Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile./maildemo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 MURUGA SARANAM Dear Mr. Palanivel.. Pl also refer to the following link which is Message no. 434 posted by Mr. Patrick Harrigan, Editor of Murigan Bhakthi Website. dhandapani/message/434 This also throws some light on how the north and south differ in Murugan Bhakthi. Actually there needs to be no comparison as long as we refer to Murugan the Eternal Master. The other aspects are only to enhance us through Bhakthi Yoga in which the forms and Lilas of the Lord will spiritually enrich and elevate us. After Elevation all the forms wont matter. This is what I understood after I was perplexed with various deities and dogmatic religions (incl. other Hindu sects) that keep intimidating you if you dont follow this religion or sect you will be thrown ino hellfire. Lord Murugan Says that " Yaam Iruka Bayamen " and He undoubtedly he saves us from the hellfire. or rebirths or whatever it is. MURUGA SARANAM With BEst Regards Meyyappan S dhandapani , palanivel <velu82> wrote: > Dear Friends, > > My name is Palanivel and I am a student here in the US. Recently while discussing with my north Indian friends I came to know that they believe Lord Murugan to be the eldest than Lord Ganesa...... I tried convincing with lots of webpage links and the start lines of Skanda Guru Kavacham which states that " Kaliyuga Dheivame ....Kandanukku Moothonne .... " ....but still they werent convinced..... > > So any of you could you please give me some authentic text or references which I cud use to prove that Lord Murugan is the youngest " chella pillai " of Umamaheshwari.... > > With lots of thanx > palanivel > > Meet the all-new My – Try it today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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