Guest guest Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Dear group, I'm hoping that someone can explain the attached photos of the men with lemons (or limes?) sewn on their chests. My husband and I took them in Tiruvanamalai (Tamil Nadu) in either February or March '05, and now we don't know if they are to do with Murugan bhakti, or something associated with Shivratri. I'd really like to know the following, as I'm confused as to why it seems like Murugan bhakti, yet the men are not wearing the kavadi, and there were other people in the crown dressed as gods such as krishna, etc: - What is the name of the festival and what happens exactly (where is the crowd coming from and where do they head for?) - Are there any specific dates? (full moon? which one?) -What is the story behind the lemons? Why do they sew them onto their chests? -Some people were dancing in a kind of trance. What is the meaning? -Which God is honored? Thanks for taking time to give me some answers, if you can. Best wishes, Penny __ On 7 Caller tones: Replace your ring tone with your favourite sound clip! http://callertones.7.mnetcorporation.com/ctonesmailtag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Dear Penny You have asked the right people. This group has got many learned members and they will contribute very effectively. Here's my contribution towards clarifying your doubts. Usually, lemons are featured in the worship of the Mother Goddess or Shakti. Its very common for devotees to make garlands of lemons and offer it to Her. It is also a practice to make a ghee lamp out of lemons (you cut a lemon into 2 halves, scoop out the insides until its a hollow cup, then fill it with ghee and light it as a lamp). Its very very possible that they were worshipping the Goddess. But Hindus being a flexible lot where worship is concerned, it is not uncommon to use the similar style of worship even for other deities. For example, if a man is using lemons, but has pinned them on himself, he may even be doing the penance for Murugan's worship. We're used to seeing the kaavadi, so it can be very confusing if the kaavadi is not present. So its quite OK to ask them directly which deity they are doing all this for. Re decorations on the crown, there's no hard and fast rule. Logically, they should be using emblems that are directly related to the deity. But people also use decorations are easily available, or very nice to look at. Finally, the gods are different dimensions of the One True God. Just like you - Penny Fowlet-Smith - are a daughter, friend, wife, sister, colleague etc. Its the same Penny, but each with a different dimension. I look forward to other group members' inputs that will make this both interesting and educative. Patricia penny fowler-smith <penfs wrote: Dear group,I'm hoping that someone can explain the attachedphotos of the men with lemons (or limes?) sewn ontheir chests. My husband and I took them inTiruvanamalai (Tamil Nadu) in either February or March'05, and now we don't know if they are to do withMurugan bhakti, or something associated withShivratri. I'd really like to know the following, as I'm confusedas to why it seems like Murugan bhakti, yet the menare not wearing the kavadi, and there were otherpeople in the crown dressed as gods such as krishna,etc:- What is the name of the festival and what happensexactly (where is the crowd coming from and where dothey head for?)- Are there any specific dates? (full moon? whichone?)-What is the story behind the lemons? Why do they sewthem onto their chests?-Some people were dancing in a kind of trance. What isthe meaning?-Which God is honored? Thanks for taking time to give me some answers, if youcan. Best wishes,Penny__ On 7 Caller tones: Replace your ring tone with your favourite sound clip! http://callertones.7.mnetcorporation.com/ctonesmailtag All-new Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 Dear Patricia, Thank you for your reply. As a westerner my need to understand often gets the better of me when confronted by what seems inexplicable and often contradictory in Hindu practices, but I am so drawn to them (i'm sure I've had many previous lives in India! ) My memory is that we took these photos the day after Shivratri (in Tiruvannamalai), when the temple priests were taking the Murthi (is that the right word for the " portable " god that's taken around the town?) around. So I'm interpreting from your reply that although the festival was Shivratri, there could have been Murugan devotees doing their practice with the lemons sewn on their skin (but no kaavadi)? But if anyone else there has some specific knowledge about sewing the lemons to the skin, but without using the kaavadi I would really appreciate it. There was also one man we saw with lemons sewn to his chest who was dancing in trance. Best wishes, Penny --- Patricia Jay <patriciajay2000 wrote: > Dear Penny > You have asked the right people. This group has > got many learned members and they will contribute > very effectively. > > Here's my contribution towards clarifying your > doubts. > > Usually, lemons are featured in the worship of the > Mother Goddess or Shakti. Its very common for > devotees to make garlands of lemons and offer it to > Her. > > It is also a practice to make a ghee lamp out of > lemons (you cut a lemon into 2 halves, scoop out the > insides until its a hollow cup, then fill it with > ghee and light it as a lamp). > > Its very very possible that they were worshipping > the Goddess. > > But Hindus being a flexible lot where worship is > concerned, it is not uncommon to use the similar > style of worship even for other deities. For > example, if a man is using lemons, but has pinned > them on himself, he may even be doing the penance > for Murugan's worship. We're used to seeing the > kaavadi, so it can be very confusing if the kaavadi > is not present. So its quite OK to ask them > directly which deity they are doing all this for. > > Re decorations on the crown, there's no hard and > fast rule. Logically, they should be using emblems > that are directly related to the deity. But people > also use decorations are easily available, or very > nice to look at. > > Finally, the gods are different dimensions of the > One True God. Just like you - Penny Fowlet-Smith - > are a daughter, friend, wife, sister, colleague etc. > Its the same Penny, but each with a different > dimension. > > I look forward to other group members' inputs that > will make this both interesting and educative. > > Patricia > > > > > > penny fowler-smith <penfs wrote: > Dear group, > > I'm hoping that someone can explain the attached > photos of the men with lemons (or limes?) sewn on > their chests. My husband and I took them in > Tiruvanamalai (Tamil Nadu) in either February or > March > '05, and now we don't know if they are to do with > Murugan bhakti, or something associated with > Shivratri. > > I'd really like to know the following, as I'm > confused > as to why it seems like Murugan bhakti, yet the men > are not wearing the kavadi, and there were other > people in the crown dressed as gods such as krishna, > etc: > > - What is the name of the festival and what happens > exactly (where is the crowd coming from and where do > they head for?) > - Are there any specific dates? (full moon? which > one?) > -What is the story behind the lemons? Why do they > sew > them onto their chests? > -Some people were dancing in a kind of trance. What > is > the meaning? > -Which God is honored? > > Thanks for taking time to give me some answers, if > you > can. > > Best wishes, > > Penny > > > __ > > On 7 > Caller tones: Replace your ring tone with your > favourite sound clip! > http://callertones.7.mnetcorporation.com/ctonesmailtag > > > > > > > All-new Mail - Fire up a more powerful email > and get things done faster. __ Join the Girlfriend magazine VIP Club for insider info, freebies and more http://www.girlfriend.com.au/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 MURUGA SARANAM Dear Penny.. Many of the practices you may find in India may not be prescribed in the religion or may not be prescribed in that form. You will find it surprising that most Hindus (including me) will not be aware of the details and rules as well, though the rules and rituals are said to be thoroughly documented in Puranas and Smritis. But what we have seen is, HE accepts anything if done with Love and total belief. The severe penance practises are mostly practised in reverance of Lord Murugan or Godess Shakthi (in the form of Mariamman, Kali etc..). You will also see devotees walking on fire or piercing their cheeks with lance. They will able to do this only when they are into trance. You will also see people entring into trance while not doing penance and remaining as simple observers or while doing mass bhajans (prayers). Trance, they say it is due to their involvement. I have also seen simple observers unknowingly get into trance. I dont think trance is honoring God or any of the gods. Trance is the state one enters during devotion. As Patricia had said, Lemon is ususally associated with Shakthi Worship, but in this case I am not sure of the practise. In case of Murugan worship the Lemon is plcaed on the top of the lance by piercing the lance. The word Murthi means idol. Urchavar or Urchava Murthy (Utsav in sanskrit Urchavam in tamil means festival) is the one that is taken out in procession. The one main sanctum sanctorum is called Mulavar (Mulam means the root or main in sanskrit and tamil). In any case be it Lord Shiva or Lord Muruga all are One SUPREME only. reading the books published by Ramakrishna Mission about Hindu Religion, its practices, rituals, Shruthi, Smrithi, God, various gods, various worships, tribal practices can really help a lot in understanding it with the right perspective. You will get the correct account of the details. YOu should be able to get the details about the availability of books at http://www.ramakrishna.org/ It may be difficult to explain the practices of Hinduism in one mail. May be you will need to search and research further. On 10/11/06, penny fowler-smith <penfs wrote: Dear Patricia,Thank you for your reply. As a westerner my need tounderstand often gets the better of me when confrontedby what seems inexplicable and often contradictory inHindu practices, but I am so drawn to them (i'm sure I've had many previous lives in India! )My memory is that we took these photos the day afterShivratri (in Tiruvannamalai), when the temple priestswere taking the Murthi (is that the right word for the " portable " god that's taken around the town?) around. So I'm interpreting from your reply that although thefestival was Shivratri, there could have been Murugandevotees doing their practice with the lemons sewn on their skin (but no kaavadi)?But if anyone else there has some specific knowledgeabout sewing the lemons to the skin, but without usingthe kaavadi I would really appreciate it. There wasalso one man we saw with lemons sewn to his chest who was dancing in trance.Best wishes,Penny .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 Thanks so much for your responses, Patricia and Muruga. I have another question that I can't find an answer to, so far. In these practices why do they use lemons, instead of say apples or oranges? I assume it's because the lemon has antiseptic qualities, which are maybe traditionally seen as purifying? but I wonder if anyone else has any information. best wishes, penny --- S Meyyappan <smeyyappan wrote: > MURUGA SARANAM > > Dear Penny.. > > Many of the practices you may find in India may not > be prescribed in the > religion or may not be prescribed in that form. You > will find it surprising > that most Hindus (including me) will not be aware of > the details and rules > as well, though the rules and rituals are said to be > thoroughly documented > in Puranas and Smritis. But what we have seen is, HE > accepts anything if > done with Love and total belief. The severe penance > practises are mostly > practised in reverance of Lord Murugan or Godess > Shakthi (in the form of > Mariamman, Kali etc..). You will also see devotees > walking on fire or > piercing their cheeks with lance. They will able to > do this only when they > are into trance. You will also see people entring > into trance while not > doing penance and remaining as simple observers or > while doing mass bhajans > (prayers). Trance, they say it is due to their > involvement. I have also seen > simple observers unknowingly get into trance. I dont > think trance is > honoring God or any of the gods. Trance is the state > one enters during > devotion. > > As Patricia had said, Lemon is ususally associated > with Shakthi Worship, but > in this case I am not sure of the practise. In case > of Murugan worship the > Lemon is plcaed on the top of the lance by piercing > the lance. > > The word Murthi means idol. Urchavar or Urchava > Murthy (Utsav in sanskrit > Urchavam in tamil means festival) is the one that is > taken out in > procession. The one main sanctum sanctorum is called > Mulavar (Mulam means > the root or main in sanskrit and tamil). In any case > be it Lord Shiva or > Lord Muruga all are One SUPREME only. reading the > books published by > Ramakrishna Mission about Hindu Religion, its > practices, rituals, Shruthi, > Smrithi, God, various gods, various worships, tribal > practices can really > help a lot in understanding it with the right > perspective. You will get the > correct account of the details. YOu should be able > to get the details about > the availability of books at > http://www.ramakrishna.org/ > > It may be difficult to explain the practices of > Hinduism in one mail. May be > you will need to search and research further. > > > On 10/11/06, penny fowler-smith <penfs > wrote: > > > > Dear Patricia, > > > > Thank you for your reply. As a westerner my need > to > > understand often gets the better of me when > confronted > > by what seems inexplicable and often contradictory > in > > Hindu practices, but I am so drawn to them (i'm > sure > > I've had many previous lives in India! ) > > > > My memory is that we took these photos the day > after > > Shivratri (in Tiruvannamalai), when the temple > priests > > were taking the Murthi (is that the right word for > the > > " portable " god that's taken around the town?) > around. > > > > So I'm interpreting from your reply that although > the > > festival was Shivratri, there could have been > Murugan > > devotees doing their practice with the lemons sewn > on > > their skin (but no kaavadi)? > > > > But if anyone else there has some specific > knowledge > > about sewing the lemons to the skin, but without > using > > the kaavadi I would really appreciate it. There > was > > also one man we saw with lemons sewn to his chest > who > > was dancing in trance. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Penny > > . > > > > > > > __ On 7 Break a world record with Total Girl's World’s Largest Slumber Party http://www.totalgirl.com.au/slumberparty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 @penny, u have really made me think as a foreigner by asking a single statement as follows:" In these practices why do they use lemons, instead of say apples or oranges? "at first i bursted out into laughing seeing this question , but later while thinking i too like to know the answer for the same................ being in chennai we were not grown to think the way u r thinking really diverse thinking !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we just used to follow customs followed by our ancestors centuries long and no way of thinking here comes to mind, why lemon and why not apple or oranges??????????? but nowadays everything seems to change nowadays i am questioning myself in many religious matters...why that?why this? why this festival?what will happen to us if we donot celebrate this festival? etc.,etc.,etc,,,,........regkarthicpenny fowler-smith <penfs wrote: Thanks so much for your responses, Patricia and Muruga. I have another question that I can't find an answer to, so far. In these practices why do they use lemons, instead of say apples or oranges? I assume it's because the lemon has antiseptic qualities, which are maybe traditionally seen as purifying? but I wonder if anyone else has any information. best wishes, penny --- S Meyyappan <smeyyappan > wrote: > MURUGA SARANAM > > Dear Penny.. > > Many of the practices you may find in India may not > be prescribed in the > religion or may not be prescribed in that form. You > will find it surprising > that most Hindus (including me) will not be aware of > the details and rules > as well, though the rules and rituals are said to be > thoroughly documented > in Puranas and Smritis. But what we have seen is, HE > accepts anything if > done with Love and total belief. The severe penance > practises are mostly > practised in reverance of Lord Murugan or Godess > Shakthi (in the form of > Mariamman, Kali etc..). You will also see devotees > walking on fire or > piercing their cheeks with lance. They will able to > do this only when they > are into trance. You will also see people entring > into trance while not > doing penance and remaining as simple observers or > while doing mass bhajans > (prayers). Trance, they say it is due to their > involvement. I have also seen > simple observers unknowingly get into trance. I dont > think trance is > honoring God or any of the gods. Trance is the state > one enters during > devotion. > > As Patricia had said, Lemon is ususally associated > with Shakthi Worship, but > in this case I am not sure of the practise. In case > of Murugan worship the > Lemon is plcaed on the top of the lance by piercing > the lance. > > The word Murthi means idol. Urchavar or Urchava > Murthy (Utsav in sanskrit > Urchavam in tamil means festival) is the one that is > taken out in > procession. The one main sanctum sanctorum is called > Mulavar (Mulam means > the root or main in sanskrit and tamil). In any case > be it Lord Shiva or > Lord Muruga all are One SUPREME only. reading the > books published by > Ramakrishna Mission about Hindu Religion, its > practices, rituals, Shruthi, > Smrithi, God, various gods, various worships, tribal > practices can really > help a lot in understanding it with the right > perspective. You will get the > correct account of the details. YOu should be able > to get the details about > the availability of books at > http://www.ramakrishna.org/ > > It may be difficult to explain the practices of > Hinduism in one mail. May be > you will need to search and research further. > > > On 10/11/06, penny fowler-smith <penfs .au> > wrote: > > > > Dear Patricia, > > > > Thank you for your reply. As a westerner my need > to > > understand often gets the better of me when > confronted > > by what seems inexplicable and often contradictory > in > > Hindu practices, but I am so drawn to them (i'm > sure > > I've had many previous lives in India! ) > > > > My memory is that we took these photos the day > after > > Shivratri (in Tiruvannamalai), when the temple > priests > > were taking the Murthi (is that the right word for > the > > "portable" god that's taken around the town?) > around. > > > > So I'm interpreting from your reply that although > the > > festival was Shivratri, there could have been > Murugan > > devotees doing their practice with the lemons sewn > on > > their skin (but no kaavadi)? > > > > But if anyone else there has some specific > knowledge > > about sewing the lemons to the skin, but without > using > > the kaavadi I would really appreciate it. There > was > > also one man we saw with lemons sewn to his chest > who > > was dancing in trance. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Penny > > . > > > > > > > __ On 7 Break a world record with Total Girl's World’s Largest Slumber Party http://www.totalgirl.com.au/slumberparty Find out what India is talking about on - Answers India Send FREE SMS to your friend's mobile from Messenger Version 8. Get it NOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 Dear Penny Sorry for the delay in replying. It was partly because I felt I should not be hogging this entire dialogue; that other very very knowledgeable group members will contribute if I keep quiet. I wish there was a simple, straightforward reply to your question. (I notice that all my previous replies turned out to be similar to a lecture!!). Well, let me try to explain it as simply as possible. You're right, lemon has got antiseptic qualities. So its partly the reason for using this in Shakti worship. The essence here is citric acid, which lemon is very rich in. It is, in fact, pure citric acid. And this chemical has both curative as well as cleansing properties. (At a very mundane level, lemon rind is used as a scrub to remove very difficult stains!!). Lemon is also a powerful coolant. So powerful that many people cannot withstand it. (I'm one of those people who has got citrus intolerance. So I cannot consume lemon or lemon juice even by mistake). Finally, lemon is very very practical to sew into a garland of lemons, or pierce with a hook and pin onto the bare skin. It wont disintegrate like apples or other fruits. Association with Shakti There are many interpretations here. You must take the one that appeals to you best. (Later, you may even develop your own insight and develop a very new and very valid interpretation!!). As a medicinal item, it is associated with Shakti because both Shiva as well as Shakti have got a personality dimension of being a doctor (in His manifestaiton as Vaideeshwaran and His Consort as Thailaamaba) in a place called Vaideeshwaran Koil (very near the town of Kumbhakonam). As a cleanser, it is symbolic because the devotee hopes Shakti will cleanse him/her of her sins (bad karmas) As a coolant, you may perhaps have noticed that Shakti is a very fiery goddess, and often associated with fire. Because Shakti (in her form as Durga and Maari-amman) has been entrusted with the task of battling and vanquishing Evil, her images are usually either fierce or just plain serious. Yes, you do find some smiling images, but these are not the norm. In her image as Maari-amman, you may have noticed the fire element as a halo or in her locks. So, offering lemons is akin to offering her a cooling substance (mark of our appreciation) Apples? I'm told this is the white man's fruit, since it was never part of indigineous Indian/Indus vegetation. True or False? Oranges are indeed used in the worship of Shakti, Shiva and even the Monkey God Hanuman. I have seen garlands made of assorted fruits (apples, oranges, lemons and offered to these deities). But you wont find people pinning them on their bare skin (probably because its not practical). Well, this has been a pretty long answer. Hope it clears your doubts. Dear senior and learned group members, please correct me if I'm wrong. (I have learnt a lot from this message board). And please add anything more that can enrich this forum. Regards Patricia penny fowler-smith <penfs wrote: Thanks so much for your responses, Patricia andMuruga. I have another question that I can't find an answerto, so far. In these practices why do they use lemons,instead of say apples or oranges? I assume it'sbecause the lemon has antiseptic qualities, which aremaybe traditionally seen as purifying? but I wonder ifanyone else has any information. best wishes,penny--- S Meyyappan <smeyyappan > wrote:> MURUGA SARANAM> > Dear Penny..> > Many of the practices you may find in India may not> be prescribed in the> religion or may not be prescribed in that form. You> will find it surprising> that most Hindus (including me) will not be aware of> the details and rules> as well, though the rules and rituals are said to be> thoroughly documented> in Puranas and Smritis. But what we have seen is, HE> accepts anything if> done with Love and total belief. The severe penance> practises are mostly> practised in reverance of Lord Murugan or Godess> Shakthi (in the form of> Mariamman, Kali etc..). You will also see devotees> walking on fire or> piercing their cheeks with lance. They will able to> do this only when they> are into trance. You will also see people entring> into trance while not> doing penance and remaining as simple observers or> while doing mass bhajans> (prayers). Trance, they say it is due to their> involvement. I have also seen> simple observers unknowingly get into trance. I dont> think trance is> honoring God or any of the gods. Trance is the state> one enters during> devotion.> > As Patricia had said, Lemon is ususally associated> with Shakthi Worship, but> in this case I am not sure of the practise. In case> of Murugan worship the> Lemon is plcaed on the top of the lance by piercing> the lance.> > The word Murthi means idol. Urchavar or Urchava> Murthy (Utsav in sanskrit> Urchavam in tamil means festival) is the one that is> taken out in> procession. The one main sanctum sanctorum is called> Mulavar (Mulam means> the root or main in sanskrit and tamil). In any case> be it Lord Shiva or> Lord Muruga all are One SUPREME only. reading the> books published by> Ramakrishna Mission about Hindu Religion, its> practices, rituals, Shruthi,> Smrithi, God, various gods, various worships, tribal> practices can really> help a lot in understanding it with the right> perspective. You will get the> correct account of the details. YOu should be able> to get the details about> the availability of books at> http://www.ramakrishna.org/> > It may be difficult to explain the practices of> Hinduism in one mail. May be> you will need to search and research further.> > > On 10/11/06, penny fowler-smith <penfs .au>> wrote:> >> > Dear Patricia,> >> > Thank you for your reply. As a westerner my need> to> > understand often gets the better of me when> confronted> > by what seems inexplicable and often contradictory> in> > Hindu practices, but I am so drawn to them (i'm> sure> > I've had many previous lives in India! )> >> > My memory is that we took these photos the day> after> > Shivratri (in Tiruvannamalai), when the temple> priests> > were taking the Murthi (is that the right word for> the> > "portable" god that's taken around the town?)> around.> >> > So I'm interpreting from your reply that although> the> > festival was Shivratri, there could have been> Murugan> > devotees doing their practice with the lemons sewn> on> > their skin (but no kaavadi)?> >> > But if anyone else there has some specific> knowledge> > about sewing the lemons to the skin, but without> using> > the kaavadi I would really appreciate it. There> was> > also one man we saw with lemons sewn to his chest> who> > was dancing in trance.> >> > Best wishes,> >> > Penny> > .> >> > > >> __ On 7 Break a world record with Total Girl's World’s Largest Slumber Party http://www.totalgirl.com.au/slumberparty Get on board. You're invited to try the new Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > Apples? > I'm told this is the white man's fruit, since it was never part of > indigenous Indian/Indus vegetation. True or False? This is of course a matter of debate. Because some say Apples originated in Europe and was brought to India by the European settlers to India it is called a para-deshi fruit (fruit of a different country). However Apple is called by the name of " Kaashmeeraphalam " (Kashmir Fruit) in Sanskrit and this is in vogue from many generations. Besides the European Apples and Indian Apples have distinctive differences. I have my own doubts about its European origin. > Oranges are indeed used in the worship of Shakti, Shiva and even the > Monkey God Hanuman. I have seen garlands made of assorted fruits > (apples, oranges, lemons and offered to these deities). But you wont > find people pinning them on their bare skin (probably because its not > practical). Oranges and Mousambis (Sweet lime) normally tend to rot quickly than lemons (Lemons have greater shelf life than most other [citrus] fruits if I am not mistaken) . Besides Oranges are supposed to be pure and used as naivedyam (food offering) to gods although not popular nowadays. For information Oranges are called " Saantraphalam " in Sanskrit. As you said there is a practice of offering garlands of fruits to various deities, just as it is popular to offer garlands of various leaves (Bilva, Tulsi, grass etc.) and vegetables - especially (vegetables) to Goddess Sharada during the Navaratri. - -- || ????????????????? || -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFNJ11JbSgEeVGLScRAqD7AJ96fCbYuKXN+q4NuLpIqM3531cnEwCfUpQH PaE9YMijgwJ3aTDwjXEu2Ws= =DSmY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Send instant messages to your online friends http://in.messenger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.