Spiritual Stories: Post #17 “Each Reflects His Own Nature”

November 18, 2006

MURUGA SARANAM

19th Nov 2006

Spiritual Stories: Post #17 " Each Reflects His Own Nature "

Dear Members..

Yet another piece of the smallest of the stories of Bhagwan Ramana

Maharishi is awaiting you today in the series of Spiritual Stories. If

someone knows who The Nayanar mentioned in the story is, I would love

to know the full version of it. In a nutshell (in fact the story

itself is contained in a nutshell), Good people see others as Good.

Bad see others as bad. Cunning see others as Cunning. Compassionate

see everyone as the children of God. The realized see everyone as Him.

It is mentioned that Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa (I would call him the

holiest embodiment of the highest level of Compassion, I could see

Lord Murugan in him) sees The Universal Mother in every women, sees

MahaVishnu in every living being. When one person expressed

displeasure that a man was eating discarded food from the garbage bin

and was also feeding a dog sitting in his lap, Sri Ramakrishna

Paramahamsa said Vishnu is feeding Vishnu and Vishnu is expressing

displeasure to Vishnu? As normal people we may not be able to tolerate

such scenes. But it must be true that when one reaches higher levels

in God Realization they rise from identifying at the levels of

physical body, or even mind and intellect. For those who identify

themselves with the Self it should be only Love and Peace everywhere.

Please share your valuable views on the Spiritual Stories whenever you

find time.

May All Glories be to The Lord of Thanneermalai

Thanneermalayanukku Arohara !

MURUGA SARANAM

With Best Regards

Meyyappan S

Note: If members feel that the prelude to the stories take away the

interest in reading it or if it could not create the right mindset to

enjoy the stories, please do not hesitate to let me know. We could

choose an alternate style in bringing the stories to you.

****

The Story begins here

Each Reflects His Own Nature

A NAYANAR WENT to Kalahasti for the darsan of God. He saw all the

people there as Siva, and Sakti, because he Himself was so. Again

Dharmaputra considered that the whole world was composed of people

having some merit or other and that each of them was even better than

he himself for some reason or other. Whereas Duryodhana could not find

even a single good person in the world. Each reflects his own nature.

Ends

********

November 21, 2006

Dear Mr Meyappan,

Your spiritual stories are very valuable. I'm glad you're keeping it up. Re prelude, speaking for myself, I find it alright. I wouldnt want to change it anyway.

But I do wish to pose this question to everyone in the group.

Peace and compassion are easy to understand and follow. The real conflict happens when you are in a web of relationships. You're a child to one, a spouse to another, a parent to still another. Then you have additional roles as superior, subordinate, customer, vendor etc.

In everyday life, when we deal with a whole range of people, a peaceful and compassionate nature can be inviting punishment. For example, if you never say "No" (if you decide to be peaceful and helpful), it sends a wrong message to a whole lot of people. "Why can you help one, but not the other?" is one kind of situation. Then you begin to actually suffer because you helped someone!

Another situation is that someone can mistake your peacefulness for Fear, and even deal with you very rudely and aggressively. I have actually witnessed people wrongly conclude that I'm peaceful and calm because I have "no other option"!!

Finally, the politickers!! They are everywhere - in the workplace, the neighbourhood, and all sorts of situations. How to remain peaceful and calm if they (1) misinterpret your bonafide actions and (2) even attribute a totally wrong and false meaning to what you say or do?

I often find myself feeling very calm on the inside, but putting on a very fierce front just to deal with such deviant minds. The danger is that the external behavior may get internalised.

I'd love to hear how group members handle difficult behaviors, in the light of the spiritual leanings they possess.

Patricia

S Meyyappan <smeyyappandhandapani Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 2:42:27 AMSpiritual Stories: Post #17 “Each Reflects His Own Nature”

MURUGA SARANAM19th Nov 2006Spiritual Stories: Post #17 "Each Reflects His Own Nature"Dear Members..Yet another piece of the smallest of the stories of Bhagwan RamanaMaharishi is awaiting you today in the series of Spiritual Stories. Ifsomeone knows who The Nayanar mentioned in the story is, I would loveto know the full version of it. In a nutshell (in fact the storyitself is contained in a nutshell), Good people see others as Good.Bad see others as bad. Cunning see others as Cunning. Compassionatesee everyone as the children of God. The realized see everyone as Him.It is mentioned that Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa (I would call him theholiest embodiment of the highest level of Compassion, I could seeLord Murugan in him) sees The Universal Mother in every women, seesMahaVishnu in every living being. When one person expresseddispleasure that a man was eating discarded food from the garbage

binand was also feeding a dog sitting in his lap, Sri RamakrishnaParamahamsa said Vishnu is feeding Vishnu and Vishnu is expressingdispleasure to Vishnu? As normal people we may not be able to toleratesuch scenes. But it must be true that when one reaches higher levelsin God Realization they rise from identifying at the levels ofphysical body, or even mind and intellect. For those who identifythemselves with the Self it should be only Love and Peace everywhere.Please share your valuable views on the Spiritual Stories whenever youfind time.May All Glories be to The Lord of ThanneermalaiThanneermalayanukku Arohara !MURUGA SARANAMWith Best RegardsMeyyappan SNote: If members feel that the prelude to the stories take away theinterest in reading it or if it could not create the right mindset toenjoy the stories, please do not hesitate to let me know. We couldchoose an alternate style in

bringing the stories to you.****The Story begins hereEach Reflects His Own NatureA NAYANAR WENT to Kalahasti for the darsan of God. He saw all thepeople there as Siva, and Sakti, because he Himself was so. AgainDharmaputra considered that the whole world was composed of peoplehaving some merit or other and that each of them was even better thanhe himself for some reason or other. Whereas Duryodhana could not findeven a single good person in the world. Each reflects his own nature.Ends********

November 21, 2006

MURUGA SARANAM

Dear Paricia Madam..

Thanks for your views on the practical diffculties of being compassionate and calm. Its very true and some times we tend to lose our cool. But I have observed that in the long term it will still be rewarding. A friend of mine does a lot of service to the community and people keep complaining that he did not do something or the other properly. I use to tell him why he should take all the pains and get a bad name still. He use to say " That is the challenge in doing service. If you come above all of them only you can continue to serve people " . I was wonderstruck by his views. Even now he continues to do service happily. If someone who is totally wrong accuses him of something also he says " Thank you sir, I learnt something from you " . He used to say that from some we learn what we should do. And from some we learn what we should not do.

I think if we keep up that spirit and count on the those who understand us and do not take advantage of our compassion, we can continue to develop in such a way that it becomes a strength for us. Someone used to say that humility is not a weekness but a strength. We may not lack in conviction but by practising it continuously in spite of the brick bats we face will help us evolve more strongly with all that softness. People may not be happy all the time, but still continue to do what you believe in.

The irony is though I speak all this, I am not able to practise it all the time and get victimised. Still trying to continue to practise it regularly. I hope some day it will become a natural habit for me. Whenever (most of the times) I get succeeded in such practises as there are also people who recognise good acts I get encouraged more. My statements also tell the fact that whether on the positive or negative side, we are dependant on how others approve or disapprove our actions. I think once we evolve more in this we will not be affected by how others react to it, but only by how our act remains helpful for others.

So in my view, in the long term peaceful and compassionate nature are mentally and spiritually rewarding in spite of others taking advantage of it. Let us allow them to happily take advantage of it and continue our efforts steadfast in the long term interests of our self development.

MURUGA SARANAM

With Best Regards

Meyyappan S

On 11/21/06, Patricia Jay <patriciajay2000 wrote:

Dear Mr Meyappan,

Your spiritual stories are very valuable. I'm glad you're keeping it up. Re prelude, speaking for myself, I find it alright. I wouldnt want to change it anyway.

But I do wish to pose this question to everyone in the group.

Peace and compassion are easy to understand and follow. The real conflict happens when you are in a web of relationships. You're a child to one, a spouse to another, a parent to still another. Then you have additional roles as superior, subordinate, customer, vendor etc.

In everyday life, when we deal with a whole range of people, a peaceful and compassionate nature can be inviting punishment

.. For example, if you never say " No " (if you decide to be peaceful and helpful), it sends a wrong message to a whole lot of people. " Why can you help one, but not the other? " is one kind of situation. Then you begin to actually suffer because you helped someone!

Another situation is that someone can mistake your peacefulness for Fear, and even deal with you very rudely and aggressively. I have actually witnessed people wrongly conclude that I'm peaceful and calm because I have " no other option " !!

Finally, the politickers!! They are everywhere - in the workplace, the neighbourhood, and all sorts of situations. How to remain peaceful and calm if they (1) misinterpret your bonafide actions and (2) even attribute a totally wrong and false meaning to what you say or do?

I often find myself feeling very calm on the inside, but putting on a very fierce front just to deal with such deviant minds. The danger is that the external behavior may get internalised.

I'd love to hear how group members handle difficult behaviors, in the light of the spiritual leanings they possess.

Patricia

..

November 23, 2006

Hi Patricia/Meyyappan,

I can totally relate to the concern you are bringing.

It is very difficult to practise some of the principles of

spirituality in our daily lives. However I feel that the tougher the

challenge the more rewarding the experience spiritually.

Being at peace and calm does not mean that we become door mats.

Being bold and standing up for oneself are in fact essential

spiritual principles.

Let us take the story of our beloved Lord Muruga. Gods (Brahma,

Vishnu, Indra, et al.) were oppressed by the demon Sura Padma. They

prayed to Muruga. What was the first thing Muruga did to save the

Gods? He sent Veerabahu as his messenger of PEACE to Sura Padma.

Sura Padma did not heed to Veerabahu's peace proposal. So Muruga

resorted to go to war with the demon. Even during the war, Muruga

gave another opportunity to Sura Padma to let go of his evil ways.

Sura Padma could have saved his own life if he conceded to Muruga.

But he did not do that. So Muruga continued the war with the demon

and finaly killed him restoring peace on earth.

The message of Muruga's story in the context of our discussion is

that being some one who loves peace and calm does mean we allow

others to make use of or oppress us. We have to be bold and stand up

for ourselves. Then we will be like Muruga, our Role Model.

And certainly, yes, our relationships can intensify our challenges

(and the rewards too, indeed). Tony Robbins once said relationships

magnify the human experience. Nothing can be farther from truth.

It is the nature of the world to complain, whine, find faults,

misintepret etc. Just knowing this could be the first step towards

peace. An example that Ammachi gives is that if we know ahead of

time that there is going to be fireworks in the neighborhood we

won't startle when we hear the explosions. However if we are unware

of upcoming fireworks we would startle and panic when we hear the

explosions.

I do not want to give the impression that I am an expert at all the

principles I outlined above. I am still a student of these

principles.

One principle that helps me to keep grounded is that people do the

best they can with the resources they have. If someone finds my

fault all the time, isn't that their problem? I know that when we

blame (or get angry or become jealous) we lose our mental and

spiritual energy.

Let me end this already very long mail with a Budha story.

Budha was well known for his state of peace and serenity. A person

in a nearby village heard about this and wanted to test Budha. He

came to see Budha and asked him if he could stay with Budha for a

few days. Budha agreed. Everyday after that this man verbally abused

Budha and called him names. Budha was unperturbed. He stayed

peaceful and calm in spite of the continued verbal abuse. After a

few days the man asked Budha: " How could you remain peaceful despite

my incessant verbal abuse? "

Budha replied: " If you give a gift to someone but that person does

not accept the gift, who does that gift belong to? "

The man replied: " Me. "

Om Skandaya Namaha.

Santhosh

dhandapani , " S Meyyappan " <smeyyappan

wrote:

>

> MURUGA SARANAM

>

> Dear Paricia Madam..

>

> Thanks for your views on the practical diffculties of being

compassionate

> and calm. Its very true and some times we tend to lose our cool.

But I have

> observed that in the long term it will still be rewarding. A

friend of mine

> does a lot of service to the community and people keep complaining

that he

> did not do something or the other properly. I use to tell him why

he should

> take all the pains and get a bad name still. He use to say " That

is the

> challenge in doing service. If you come above all of them only you

can

> continue to serve people " . I was wonderstruck by his views. Even

now he

> continues to do service happily. If someone who is totally wrong

accuses him

> of something also he says " Thank you sir, I learnt something from

you " . He

> used to say that from some we learn what we should do. And from

some we

> learn what we should not do.

>

> I think if we keep up that spirit and count on the those who

understand us

> and do not take advantage of our compassion, we can continue to

develop in

> such a way that it becomes a strength for us. Someone used to say

that

> humility is not a weekness but a strength. We may not lack in

conviction but

> by practising it continuously in spite of the brick bats we face

will help

> us evolve more strongly with all that softness. People may not be

happy all

> the time, but still continue to do what you believe in.

>

> The irony is though I speak all this, I am not able to practise it

all the

> time and get victimised. Still trying to continue to practise it

regularly.

> I hope some day it will become a natural habit for me. Whenever

(most of the

> times) I get succeeded in such practises as there are also people

who

> recognise good acts I get encouraged more. My statements also tell

the fact

> that whether on the positive or negative side, we are dependant on

how

> others approve or disapprove our actions. I think once we evolve

more in

> this we will not be affected by how others react to it, but only

by how our

> act remains helpful for others.

>

> So in my view, in the long term peaceful and compassionate nature

are

> mentally and spiritually rewarding in spite of others taking

advantage of

> it. Let us allow them to happily take advantage of it and continue

our

> efforts steadfast in the long term interests of our self

development.

>

> MURUGA SARANAM

>

> With Best Regards

> Meyyappan S

>

> On 11/21/06, Patricia Jay <patriciajay2000 wrote:

> >

> > Dear Mr Meyappan,

> >

> > Your spiritual stories are very valuable. I'm glad you're

keeping it up.

> > Re prelude, speaking for myself, I find it alright. I wouldnt

want to

> > change it anyway.

> >

> > But I do wish to pose this question to everyone in the group.

> >

> > Peace and compassion are easy to understand and follow. The

real conflict

> > happens when you are in a web of relationships. You're a child

to one, a

> > spouse to another, a parent to still another. Then you have

additional

> > roles as superior, subordinate, customer, vendor etc.

> >

> > In everyday life, when we deal with a whole range of people, a

peaceful

> > and compassionate nature can be *inviting punishment*. For

example, if

> > you never say " No " (if you decide to be peaceful and helpful),

it sends a

> > wrong message to a whole lot of people. " Why can you help one,

but not the

> > other? " is one kind of situation. Then you begin to actually

suffer because

> > you helped someone!

> >

> > Another situation is that someone can mistake your peacefulness

for Fear,

> > and even deal with you very rudely and aggressively. I have

actually

> > witnessed people wrongly conclude that I'm peaceful and calm

because I have

> > " no other option " !!

> >

> > Finally, the politickers!! They are everywhere - in the

workplace, the

> > neighbourhood, and all sorts of situations. How to remain

peaceful and calm

> > if they (1) misinterpret your bonafide actions and (2) even

attribute a

> > totally wrong and false meaning to what you say or do?

> >

> > I often find myself feeling very calm on the inside, but putting

on a very

> > fierce front just to deal with such deviant minds. The danger

is that the

> > external behavior may get internalised.

> >

> > I'd love to hear how group members handle difficult behaviors,

in the

> > light of the spiritual leanings they possess.

> >

> > Patricia

> > .

> >

>

November 25, 2006

Thank you very much Santosh and Mr Meyappan, for your response. So, fundamentally, we should take a long term view of life, if we're to put our spiritual principles to use in our daily life. Yes, it makes sense.

I wonder if anyboy can address these additional queries, because often, I'm consulted by friends or colleagues to resolve personal issues.

First, how to sell this "long-term view of life" to youth who are constantly driven by the immediate wants (not needs), and who can create a lot of disturbance if their demands are not met?

Secondly, take senior individuals at the other end of the spectrum. These are people who are no longer requried to "look after" their offspring who are now adults with all the stresses and strains of adult life. Very often, these senior persons have become the responsibility of the younger persons. (You could even call them dependants).

The way I understand it, dependants have to follow certain rules. They can question, even advise, but they must cooperate with the ones who are (very responsibly) taking care of them. Also, their techniques of doing things are way different from how people today perform.

My common sense tells me that you should respect elders, and advise (or even educate) them patiently. Make them understand that things are different today, so you need to take a non-traditional approach to problem-solving.

Some seniors are very sincere, and then make an effort to understand. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they admit they cannot cope.

My focus is on those seniors who insist that, come what may, they are right. But it is the juniors who have to implement it, and also suffer the consequences. My client's (here "client" means anyone who comes with a problem that requires counselling) senior, a relative, even threatened her of curses if she disobeyed her elders and did things as she herself wishes!!

?????????

Since this is a forum on spirituality, what is the stand of spiritual thought on this? If A is right, but is a junior in terms of age and relationship, and B is wrong, even though B is senior and even a parental figure, what should be A's decision? If she goes ahead and does what she believes she is right, will she really invite the curses that B so vehemently talks about? (Dont forget, the senior B really believes she is right, and that A is up to no good!).

This entire things seems like commonplace junior-senior conflict in everyday life. But sometimes, juniors are very conscientious and want to do the right thing. I wonder what I should advise them.

Thank you

Patricia

santhosh_s_nair <santhosh_s_nairdhandapani Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 9:10:40 AMRe: Spiritual Stories: Post #17 “Each Reflects His Own Nature”

Hi Patricia/Meyyappan,I can totally relate to the concern you are bringing. It is very difficult to practise some of the principles of spirituality in our daily lives. However I feel that the tougher the challenge the more rewarding the experience spiritually.Being at peace and calm does not mean that we become door mats. Being bold and standing up for oneself are in fact essential spiritual principles.Let us take the story of our beloved Lord Muruga. Gods (Brahma, Vishnu, Indra, et al.) were oppressed by the demon Sura Padma. They prayed to Muruga. What was the first thing Muruga did to save the Gods? He sent Veerabahu as his messenger of PEACE to Sura Padma. Sura Padma did not heed to Veerabahu's peace proposal. So Muruga resorted to go to war with the demon. Even during the war, Muruga gave another opportunity to Sura Padma to let go of his evil ways. Sura Padma could have saved his own

life if he conceded to Muruga. But he did not do that. So Muruga continued the war with the demon and finaly killed him restoring peace on earth.The message of Muruga's story in the context of our discussion is that being some one who loves peace and calm does mean we allow others to make use of or oppress us. We have to be bold and stand up for ourselves. Then we will be like Muruga, our Role Model.And certainly, yes, our relationships can intensify our challenges (and the rewards too, indeed). Tony Robbins once said relationships magnify the human experience. Nothing can be farther from truth.It is the nature of the world to complain, whine, find faults, misintepret etc. Just knowing this could be the first step towards peace. An example that Ammachi gives is that if we know ahead of time that there is going to be fireworks in the neighborhood we won't startle when we hear the explosions. However if we

are unware of upcoming fireworks we would startle and panic when we hear the explosions.I do not want to give the impression that I am an expert at all the principles I outlined above. I am still a student of these principles.One principle that helps me to keep grounded is that people do the best they can with the resources they have. If someone finds my fault all the time, isn't that their problem? I know that when we blame (or get angry or become jealous) we lose our mental and spiritual energy. Let me end this already very long mail with a Budha story. Budha was well known for his state of peace and serenity. A person in a nearby village heard about this and wanted to test Budha. He came to see Budha and asked him if he could stay with Budha for a few days. Budha agreed. Everyday after that this man verbally abused Budha and called him names. Budha was unperturbed. He stayed peaceful and

calm in spite of the continued verbal abuse. After a few days the man asked Budha: "How could you remain peaceful despite my incessant verbal abuse?"Budha replied: "If you give a gift to someone but that person does not accept the gift, who does that gift belong to?"The man replied: "Me."Om Skandaya Namaha.Santhoshdhandapani@gro ups.com, "S Meyyappan" <smeyyappan@ ...> wrote:>> MURUGA SARANAM> > Dear Paricia Madam..> > Thanks for your views on the practical diffculties of being compassionate> and calm. Its very true and some times we tend to lose our cool. But I have> observed that in the long term it will still be rewarding. A friend of mine> does a lot of service to the community and people keep complaining that he> did not do something

or the other properly. I use to tell him why he should> take all the pains and get a bad name still. He use to say "That is the> challenge in doing service. If you come above all of them only you can> continue to serve people". I was wonderstruck by his views. Even now he> continues to do service happily. If someone who is totally wrong accuses him> of something also he says "Thank you sir, I learnt something from you". He> used to say that from some we learn what we should do. And from some we> learn what we should not do.> > I think if we keep up that spirit and count on the those who understand us> and do not take advantage of our compassion, we can continue to develop in> such a way that it becomes a strength for us. Someone used to say that> humility is not a weekness but a strength. We may not lack in conviction but> by practising it

continuously in spite of the brick bats we face will help> us evolve more strongly with all that softness. People may not be happy all> the time, but still continue to do what you believe in.> > The irony is though I speak all this, I am not able to practise it all the> time and get victimised. Still trying to continue to practise it regularly.> I hope some day it will become a natural habit for me. Whenever (most of the> times) I get succeeded in such practises as there are also people who> recognise good acts I get encouraged more. My statements also tell the fact> that whether on the positive or negative side, we are dependant on how> others approve or disapprove our actions. I think once we evolve more in> this we will not be affected by how others react to it, but only by how our> act remains helpful for others.> > So in my view, in

the long term peaceful and compassionate nature are> mentally and spiritually rewarding in spite of others taking advantage of> it. Let us allow them to happily take advantage of it and continue our> efforts steadfast in the long term interests of our self development.> > MURUGA SARANAM> > With Best Regards> Meyyappan S> > > > > > On 11/21/06, Patricia Jay <patriciajay2000@ ...> wrote:> >> > Dear Mr Meyappan,> >> > Your spiritual stories are very valuable. I'm glad you're keeping it up.> > Re prelude, speaking for myself, I find it alright. I wouldnt want to> > change it anyway.> >> > But I do wish to pose this question to everyone in the group.> >> > Peace and compassion are easy to understand and follow. The real conflict> > happens

when you are in a web of relationships. You're a child to one, a> > spouse to another, a parent to still another. Then you have additional> > roles as superior, subordinate, customer, vendor etc.> >> > In everyday life, when we deal with a whole range of people, a peaceful> > and compassionate nature can be *inviting punishment*. For example, if> > you never say "No" (if you decide to be peaceful and helpful), it sends a> > wrong message to a whole lot of people. "Why can you help one, but not the> > other?" is one kind of situation. Then you begin to actually suffer because> > you helped someone!> >> > Another situation is that someone can mistake your peacefulness for Fear,> > and even deal with you very rudely and aggressively. I have actually> > witnessed people wrongly conclude that I'm peaceful and calm

because I have> > "no other option"!!> >> > Finally, the politickers! ! They are everywhere - in the workplace, the> > neighbourhood, and all sorts of situations. How to remain peaceful and calm> > if they (1) misinterpret your bonafide actions and (2) even attribute a> > totally wrong and false meaning to what you say or do?> >> > I often find myself feeling very calm on the inside, but putting on a very> > fierce front just to deal with such deviant minds. The danger is that the> > external behavior may get internalised.> >> > I'd love to hear how group members handle difficult behaviors, in the> > light of the spiritual leanings they possess.> >> > Patricia> > .> >> > > >>

November 26, 2006

MURUGA SARANAM

Dear Patricia Madam..

You have brought up issues that almost everyone from every part of the world faces in this life. Though I have not been always successful in handling them efficiently, I still have certain views which are my understanding and I believe have helped me sometimes.

Between any two individuals, it always needs ONLY one person to understand and act to solve a disagreement (I think almost every issue can be categorized as a disagreement at the bottom level). Be it husband and wife, or parents and children or adults and their elders or friends and relatives. I feel whoever, among the two, is in a mentally sound position to understand and act is obliged to act and bring peace. Bringing peace alone should be the aim here and not in strengthening his/her position. In most of the situations especially relating to personal issues and disagreements, if you want to live a peaceful & spiritually quality life, it should not matter at the first level as to who is wrong and who is right. Though what we think may be right, we should be ready to change especially when we are dealing with adults. Ofcourse this may not hold good in every issue. But in most of them this will build a good realtionship and understanding. For a good relationship what is wrong and what is right should not be the priority. There are things much more than that that relate to good human relationship.

With regard to children, atleast some times we should make them fulfil their wants. Because they have scope to grow (and evolve) and they will realise it. But tightly shutting the door to them may cause them to become rebellious and things may not move the way we want. Most of the people whether young or old act correctly if they are made to understand things and percieve things from the right perspective. Most people (may be 99%) do not do wrong things while knowing well that they are wrong (except habits like smoking, drinking etc..). To create the understanding, trying to explain them maynot help at times.

Sometimes a particluar aproach may be highly effective. In the example of A (Jr Adult) and B (Elder), A may need to tell B that " Considering your experience in life and having better perceptions than me, you may be right. But still for my sake can you try it this way? " A should say this even if A believes he/she is perfectly right and B is wrong. IN fact B could also be right. Even if B is totally wrong, by saying " You could be right " the other person's ego starts dissolving and tries be little more open (in most cases).

In any case, it is my view that the junior adults must obey the senior adults in most cases irrespective of who is wrong and who is right, though everyone should try to explain their understanding. By not standing stiff against, we make way for a good understanding and enable the stiffer adult to soften. Whether Sr. or Jr. or husband or wife, the one who has the flexibility in personality should try his/her best to amicably solve the situation. Giving (or giving up in favour of the other as the other is not able to understand but not because of weakness) is greater trait and enhances the person spiritually. He (or she) stands higher than the one who received. So if we sincerely try to practise giving (in every aspect), we will be loved a lot by even those who disagree with us.

I have read somewhere that even a 5 year old person may be more evolved spiritually than a 50 year old who still cant give up anger, stubbornness etc.. So the actual age is by evolution. One may have evolved more in the previous birth but may be younger now, but other at 50 may still be younger in terms of mental and spiritual faculties.

Though I may not have addressed all your concerns with my views, I have tried wherever I had something to say. Again these are all my understandings and observations only and I could be wrong or others with a different perception may still be right from their point of view. As I said UNDERSTANDING & GIVING MATTERS MORE THAN WHO IS RIGHT AND WHO IS WRONG in most cases.

Note: This will also have a very interesting turn if one takes into consideration of " How a Person should act " in the view of Bhagwat Gita which greatly helps in almost every situation we face in day today life. Arjuna is not told that Compassion is bad. He is told that he is a King and he has certain duties towards his people. Based on that fulfiling of his duty he would have to kill those who are bent upon killing his people or depriving them of their rights or even existence. Those enemies should not be seen atthat time as relatives or teachers or friends. But as those who want to take your posessions and posessions of your people. In every situation we have the necessity to think upon what is our duty and obligation at that situation and we can decide upon what is the right course of action. And while doing that one is obliged to also consider his duties and attitude towards his elders, parents and children.

MURUGA SARANAM

With Best Regards

Meyyappan S

On 11/26/06, Patricia Jay <patriciajay2000 wrote:

Thank you very much Santosh and Mr Meyappan, for your response. So, fundamentally, we should take a long term view of life, if we're to put our spiritual principles to use in our daily life. Yes, it makes sense.

I wonder if anyboy can address these additional queries, because often, I'm consulted by friends or colleagues to resolve personal issues.

First, how to sell this " long-term view of life " to youth who are constantly driven by the immediate wants (not needs), and who can create a lot of disturbance if their demands are not met?

Secondly, take senior individuals at the other end of the spectrum. These are people who are no longer requried to " look after " their offspring who are now adults with all the stresses and strains of adult life. Very often, these senior persons have become the responsibility of the younger persons. (You could even call them dependants).

The way I understand it, dependants have to follow certain rules. They can question, even advise, but they must cooperate with the ones who are (very responsibly) taking care of them. Also, their techniques of doing things are way different from how people today perform.

My common sense tells me that you should respect elders, and advise (or even educate) them patiently. Make them understand that things are different today, so you need to take a non-traditional approach to problem-solving.

Some seniors are very sincere, and then make an effort to understand. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they admit they cannot cope.

My focus is on those seniors who insist that, come what may, they are right. But it is the juniors who have to implement it, and also suffer the consequences. My client's (here " client " means anyone who comes with a problem that requires counselling) senior, a relative, even threatened her of curses if she disobeyed her elders and did things as she herself wishes!!

?????????

Since this is a forum on spirituality, what is the stand of spiritual thought on this? If A is right, but is a junior in terms of age and relationship, and B is wrong, even though B is senior and even a parental figure, what should be A's decision? If she goes ahead and does what she believes she is right, will she really invite the curses that B so vehemently talks about? (Dont forget, the senior B really believes she is right, and that A is up to no good!).

This entire things seems like commonplace junior-senior conflict in everyday life. But sometimes, juniors are very conscientious and want to do the right thing. I wonder what I should advise them.

Thank you

Patricia

..

November 26, 2006

Once again, Mr Meyappan, thank you very much. I appreciate your timely responses.

I face these kind of conflicting situations very often because in my profession, the counselling component is high. Usually, we apply management principles to solve workplace problems.

Next, within the workplace, we need to use behaviorial principles to resolve interpersonal/departmental conflicts, because at the end of the day, people still have to work with one another. Departments still need to cooperate and work together as a team.

But invariably, after participants are very satisfied with what they have learnt in the sessions, they believe that I would be having a "formula" to solve their interpersonal problems, be they personal or professional!

I encountered this dilemma when I knew that my adult, but young, client was right; and her senior relative was wrong. Not just that , my client would have been in serious trouble if she decided to defer to the elder's decision. Because I'm often interested in the spiritual dimension of life, I encountered a conflict between my professional view and what the spiritual adherents would say.

FYI, for the moment, I have advised my client that even thought she may be right, her challenge is to sell her decision to her senior relative. Also, she should get the involvement of a neutral 3rd party who both sides respect, and hope that party can influence the senior person.

I hope other group members would also share real life situations and how they can apply spiritual principles in practice.

Patricia

S Meyyappan <smeyyappandhandapani Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 7:37:56 PMRe: Spiritual Stories: Post #17 “Each Reflects His Own Nature”

MURUGA SARANAM

Dear Patricia Madam..

You have brought up issues that almost everyone from every part of the world faces in this life. Though I have not been always successful in handling them efficiently, I still have certain views which are my understanding and I believe have helped me sometimes.

Between any two individuals, it always needs ONLY one person to understand and act to solve a disagreement (I think almost every issue can be categorized as a disagreement at the bottom level). Be it husband and wife, or parents and children or adults and their elders or friends and relatives. I feel whoever, among the two, is in a mentally sound position to understand and act is obliged to act and bring peace. Bringing peace alone should be the aim here and not in strengthening his/her position. In most of the situations especially relating to personal issues and disagreements, if you want to live a peaceful & spiritually quality life, it should not matter at the first level as to who is wrong and who is right. Though what we think may be right, we should be ready to change especially when we are dealing with adults. Ofcourse this may not hold good in every issue. But in most of them this will build a good realtionship and understanding. For a good

relationship what is wrong and what is right should not be the priority. There are things much more than that that relate to good human relationship.

With regard to children, atleast some times we should make them fulfil their wants. Because they have scope to grow (and evolve) and they will realise it. But tightly shutting the door to them may cause them to become rebellious and things may not move the way we want. Most of the people whether young or old act correctly if they are made to understand things and percieve things from the right perspective. Most people (may be 99%) do not do wrong things while knowing well that they are wrong (except habits like smoking, drinking etc..). To create the understanding, trying to explain them maynot help at times.

Sometimes a particluar aproach may be highly effective. In the example of A (Jr Adult) and B (Elder), A may need to tell B that "Considering your experience in life and having better perceptions than me, you may be right. But still for my sake can you try it this way?" A should say this even if A believes he/she is perfectly right and B is wrong. IN fact B could also be right. Even if B is totally wrong, by saying "You could be right" the other person's ego starts dissolving and tries be little more open (in most cases).

In any case, it is my view that the junior adults must obey the senior adults in most cases irrespective of who is wrong and who is right, though everyone should try to explain their understanding. By not standing stiff against, we make way for a good understanding and enable the stiffer adult to soften. Whether Sr. or Jr. or husband or wife, the one who has the flexibility in personality should try his/her best to amicably solve the situation. Giving (or giving up in favour of the other as the other is not able to understand but not because of weakness) is greater trait and enhances the person spiritually. He (or she) stands higher than the one who received. So if we sincerely try to practise giving (in every aspect), we will be loved a lot by even those who disagree with us.

I have read somewhere that even a 5 year old person may be more evolved spiritually than a 50 year old who still cant give up anger, stubbornness etc.. So the actual age is by evolution. One may have evolved more in the previous birth but may be younger now, but other at 50 may still be younger in terms of mental and spiritual faculties.

Though I may not have addressed all your concerns with my views, I have tried wherever I had something to say. Again these are all my understandings and observations only and I could be wrong or others with a different perception may still be right from their point of view. As I said UNDERSTANDING & GIVING MATTERS MORE THAN WHO IS RIGHT AND WHO IS WRONG in most cases.

Note: This will also have a very interesting turn if one takes into consideration of "How a Person should act" in the view of Bhagwat Gita which greatly helps in almost every situation we face in day today life. Arjuna is not told that Compassion is bad. He is told that he is a King and he has certain duties towards his people. Based on that fulfiling of his duty he would have to kill those who are bent upon killing his people or depriving them of their rights or even existence. Those enemies should not be seen atthat time as relatives or teachers or friends. But as those who want to take your posessions and posessions of your people. In every situation we have the necessity to think upon what is our duty and obligation at that situation and we can decide upon what is the right course of action. And while doing that one is obliged to also consider his duties and attitude towards his elders, parents and children.

MURUGA SARANAM

With Best Regards

Meyyappan S

On 11/26/06, Patricia Jay <patriciajay2000@ > wrote: