Application pointers for 21st century please!!

April 8, 2007

Dear Group Members This is definitely the most committed, sincere and dedicated group I have experienced! All contributors are very committed to learning, inputting and advancing the goal of God-realization thru Lord Murugan. While I find all the spiritual and scripture knowledge very self-illuminating, I wonder if group members could contribute more. Let me explain what I mean. Today's Hindu society faces some challenges that were unheard of, (and even unthinkable!!!), some time back. With more education, more exposure to knowledge,

and enormous changes in the economic styles today, the earlier way of thinking is not working to solve problems of contemporary Hindu individuals. So many more women than before are not just educated today, but even highly educated. Its also very common to see wives earning more than husbands in many households. Earlier, relations were based on economic equation in the family, and the economic equation was unchanged for centuries. Change naturally causes conflict. Its takes time for the change to get digested and people adapt to it. But until that happy state occurs, what inputs are there in spiritual knowledge, scriptures, that can help families cope with the pain caused by changing circumstances? Another example is joblessness. Economies grow, other economies collapse, familes are geographically seperated because economic survival demands it. (Very often, I'm called in to counsel troubled families, troubled individuals. I get constantly shocked at the kind of low standard behavior that my clients have to suffer within the family unit. In these situations, more than logic, spiritual and philosophical inputs have helped my clients in may ways. Still, I find myself short of more "spiritual ammuninition" to combat the advancing forces of destructive behavior caused by changes). A last

example. Sometimes, its the head of the family unit (could be male or female) who behaves (or utters words) irresponsibly. This has a devastating effect on family members who begin to question the existence of God and spirituality. This in turn, causes a lot of disturbing behaviors!! I look forward to some interesting replies. Patricia

Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Small Business.

April 9, 2007

What we have to offer is the way to the stillness that allows the

presence of God to be felt. We live in a hubbub visual, aural, and

verbal pollution. Trying to deal with that in its own terms just

will not work on a spiritual level. Breathe and meditate. These

have carried us through crises for millenia. Everyone deserves the

opportunity to find inner stillness and the presence of God. Make

possible for individual family members to experience this first, then

work with the family as a group. Meditation is a great equalizer.

No one can claim to the " boss " meditator. Take people to their inner

selves and they will find God.

Yogendra

dhandapani , Patricia Jay <patriciajay2000

wrote:

>

> Dear Group Members

>

> This is definitely the most committed, sincere and dedicated

group I have experienced! All contributors are very committed to

learning, inputting and advancing the goal of God-realization thru

Lord Murugan.

>

> While I find all the spiritual and scripture knowledge very self-

illuminating, I wonder if group members could contribute more.

>

> Let me explain what I mean. Today's Hindu society faces some

challenges that were unheard of, (and even unthinkable!!!), some time

back.

>

> With more education, more exposure to knowledge, and enormous

changes in the economic styles today, the earlier way of thinking is

not working to solve problems of contemporary Hindu individuals.

>

> So many more women than before are not just educated today, but

even highly educated. Its also very common to see wives earning more

than husbands in many households. Earlier, relations were based on

economic equation in the family, and the economic equation was

unchanged for centuries.

>

> Change naturally causes conflict. Its takes time for the change

to get digested and people adapt to it. But until that happy state

occurs, what inputs are there in spiritual knowledge, scriptures,

that can help families cope with the pain caused by changing

circumstances?

>

> Another example is joblessness. Economies grow, other economies

collapse, familes are geographically seperated because economic

survival demands it.

>

> (Very often, I'm called in to counsel troubled families, troubled

individuals. I get constantly shocked at the kind of low standard

behavior that my clients have to suffer within the family unit.

>

> In these situations, more than logic, spiritual and philosophical

inputs have helped my clients in may ways. Still, I find myself

short of more " spiritual ammuninition " to combat the advancing forces

of destructive behavior caused by changes).

>

> A last example. Sometimes, its the head of the family unit

(could be male or female) who behaves (or utters words)

irresponsibly. This has a devastating effect on family members who

begin to question the existence of God and spirituality. This in

turn, causes a lot of disturbing behaviors!!

>

> I look forward to some interesting replies.

>

> Patricia

>

> Get your own web address.

> Have a HUGE year through Small Business.

>

April 9, 2007

MURUGA SARANAM

DeaR Patricia Madam..

Nice to see your approach towards tackling the problems.

I see the basic problem in lack of humility in people. In fact humilty is a strength contrary to the common undretanding of it as a weekness. Lack of petience, haste etc.. add to the problem. When things dont go our way in spite of our paryers, people tend to suspect the Super Power without realizing that our understanding of the way it works is wrong. People think that simply pratcising some rituals, reciting slokas or mechanically praying as described should bring miracles. First of all why one should ask for miracles? Accepting things and willingness to face them needs courage. Prayers will not bring miracles in the same sense as most people think, but will do miracles in bringing the right change and understanding in us. Heart rending prayers (Ullam Urugi Prarthithal) change people.

In certain familes the partners would be good individuals, would be good towards everyone except each other. Sometimes it could be a sense of taking for granted and at times it could be contempt. That breaks into a problem. As in most cases even if people cant change, atleast problems couldbe avoided if only one of the two get angry at one time and other shows some understanding and maturity. Problems break only when both get angry at the same time.

Coping with the problems using spirituality? - I am reminded of the solution by a Malayalam Song - " Karmam Cheyyka nammude Lakshyam, Karmabalam tharum Ishwaran Allo! Ishwara chintha ithonney manjanu saswathame Ulagil " . Hope you would have got the meaning of it as it is close to Tamil. Hold on to the path of righteousness and dont get deterred by the results in the short term. You will be better off. This attitude will help in coping up with the pain. But unfortunately to adopt this spiritual formula one has to format himself (sorry for the computer language), or inclucate such attitude in himself, gain maturity and wisdom in doing things, see things from a higher perspective of life spectrum rather than seeing near the feet only. To gain that attitude also one may need self introspection or sincere spiritual practise (sadhna). It will yield results but in most cases people get frustrated and give up. It is a long process and one should be ready to go through it completely to get the end result and instead people want short cuts and ask for instant results like fast food. They are impatient and give up without introspection or some times with a question, why I should do this if I dont get an instant result.

Joblessness - yes, it is a major problem to tackle as it affects the self esteem of a person. Even Avvayar has said, kodithu kodithu varumai kodithu, athaninum kodithu Ilamaiyil Varumai. Which means " Poverty is cruelty and worse than that is poverty at an young age " . In most cases getting a job only can help them more than spirituality as their mind is not ready to peacefully practise spirituality without income or battered self esteem.

Reg the low behaviour of people they will rid themselves from it or atleast try their best to rid themselves from it when they experience the high quality of peace and contentedness when they practise compassion, act of giving, act of giving up, accepting that the other person could be right etc.. I need to mention that the act of forgiving cannot bring any peace. Because the term in itself says that you are right and the other person is utterly wrong and you are still forgiving. It could also be that you are wrong and you should seek for forgiveness. It forms the same difference between tolerance and acceptance.

I may not have been able to correctly address your points and I may have responded with very limited knowledge and possibly with a narrow approach. If more people come with their input it can help me improve my approach towards these day to day problems. One truth I would share is that uttering the name of Kaliyuga Varatha and asking for His help works out. But we should be ready to change and accept what He wants us to do. Some times we may not understand or interpret correctly. But we shoud try to change. Every one may have short comings and there is no wonder about it. But iIf we live the same way without any change through out, we would remain where we started and we certainly wouldnt want that. So we should be ready to change.

MURUGA SARANAM

With Best Regards

Meyyappan S

On 09 Apr 2007 02:50:02 -0700, Patricia Jay <patriciajay2000 wrote:

Dear Group Members

This is definitely the most committed, sincere and dedicated group I have experienced! All contributors are very committed to learning, inputting and advancing the goal of God-realization thru Lord Murugan.

While I find all the spiritual and scripture knowledge very self-illuminating, I wonder if group members could contribute more.

Let me explain what I mean. Today's Hindu society faces some challenges that were unheard of, (and even unthinkable!!!), some time back.

With more education, more exposure to knowledge, and enormous changes in the economic styles today, the earlier way of thinking is not working to solve problems of contemporary Hindu individuals.

So many more women than before are not just educated today, but even highly educated. Its also very common to see wives earning more than husbands in many households. Earlier, relations were based on economic equation in the family, and the economic equation was unchanged for centuries.

Change naturally causes conflict. Its takes time for the change to get digested and people adapt to it. But until that happy state occurs, what inputs are there in spiritual knowledge, scriptures, that can help families cope with the pain caused by changing circumstances?

Another example is joblessness. Economies grow, other economies collapse, familes are geographically seperated because economic survival demands it.

(Very often, I'm called in to counsel troubled families, troubled individuals. I get constantly shocked at the kind of low standard behavior that my clients have to suffer within the family unit.

In these situations, more than logic, spiritual and philosophical inputs have helped my clients in may ways. Still, I find myself short of more " spiritual ammuninition " to combat the advancing forces of destructive behavior caused by changes).

A last example. Sometimes, its the head of the family unit (could be male or female) who behaves (or utters words) irresponsibly. This has a devastating effect on family members who begin to question the existence of God and spirituality. This in turn, causes a lot of disturbing behaviors!!

I look forward to some interesting replies.

Patricia

..

April 10, 2007

Yesterday evening after writing my first response, I asked one of my

yoga students what appraoch she would take. She said that she would

advocate the methods of non-violent communication as taught by

Marshall Rosenberg. This is a method that we use in a group I work

with. It is definitely an antidote to the kind of behavior that

Patricia is talking about. BTW, the group I work with always starts

a business meeting with a short meditation. It brings calm and

allows for non-violent communication. For more about Rosenberg's

methods go to http://www.cnvc.org/

Yogendra

dhandapani , " stinger9oh " <stinger9oh

wrote:

>

> What we have to offer is the way to the stillness that allows the

> presence of God to be felt. We live in a hubbub visual, aural, and

> verbal pollution. Trying to deal with that in its own terms just

> will not work on a spiritual level. Breathe and meditate. These

> have carried us through crises for millenia. Everyone deserves the

> opportunity to find inner stillness and the presence of God. Make

> possible for individual family members to experience this first,

then

> work with the family as a group. Meditation is a great equalizer.

> No one can claim to the " boss " meditator. Take people to their

inner

> selves and they will find God.

>

> Yogendra

>

> dhandapani , Patricia Jay <patriciajay2000@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Dear Group Members

> >

> > This is definitely the most committed, sincere and dedicated

> group I have experienced! All contributors are very committed to

> learning, inputting and advancing the goal of God-realization thru

> Lord Murugan.

> >

> > While I find all the spiritual and scripture knowledge very

self-

> illuminating, I wonder if group members could contribute more.

> >

> > Let me explain what I mean. Today's Hindu society faces some

> challenges that were unheard of, (and even unthinkable!!!), some

time

> back.

> >

> > With more education, more exposure to knowledge, and enormous

> changes in the economic styles today, the earlier way of thinking

is

> not working to solve problems of contemporary Hindu individuals.

> >

> > So many more women than before are not just educated today, but

> even highly educated. Its also very common to see wives earning

more

> than husbands in many households. Earlier, relations were based on

> economic equation in the family, and the economic equation was

> unchanged for centuries.

> >

> > Change naturally causes conflict. Its takes time for the

change

> to get digested and people adapt to it. But until that happy state

> occurs, what inputs are there in spiritual knowledge, scriptures,

> that can help families cope with the pain caused by changing

> circumstances?

> >

> > Another example is joblessness. Economies grow, other

economies

> collapse, familes are geographically seperated because economic

> survival demands it.

> >

> > (Very often, I'm called in to counsel troubled families,

troubled

> individuals. I get constantly shocked at the kind of low standard

> behavior that my clients have to suffer within the family unit.

> >

> > In these situations, more than logic, spiritual and

philosophical

> inputs have helped my clients in may ways. Still, I find myself

> short of more " spiritual ammuninition " to combat the advancing

forces

> of destructive behavior caused by changes).

> >

> > A last example. Sometimes, its the head of the family unit

> (could be male or female) who behaves (or utters words)

> irresponsibly. This has a devastating effect on family members who

> begin to question the existence of God and spirituality. This in

> turn, causes a lot of disturbing behaviors!!

> >

> > I look forward to some interesting replies.

> >

> > Patricia

> >

> > Get your own web address.

> > Have a HUGE year through Small Business.

> >

>

April 12, 2007

Thank you very, very much for your kind help. Yes, I had been aware of NVC, but got a close encounter with it now - all thanks to you! Yes, the link is very useful to me in both my work as well as in my interpersonal transactions. To update on how I have successfully handled some of the problem cases, here's an input that you could probably find useful. I often get my clients to list out what they gained and lost in every endeavour they undertood. Then I guide them to realize that, too often, we lose sight of our gains from sacrifice. (We're sacrificing all the time in order to achieve something). Once they realize

that their sights are focussed only on the losses they have incurred, they usually snap back into shape. Still, its a wise practice to constantly "stock up" on our armoury of spiritual knowledge, so that we can successfully combat the negative forces that keep popping up regularly in life. Once again, thanks very much. I'm sure other readers in the group would also find them richer from this exchange. Patricia stinger9oh <stinger9oh wrote: Yesterday evening after writing my first response, I asked one of my yoga students what appraoch she would take. She said that she would advocate the methods of non-violent communication as taught by Marshall Rosenberg. This is a method that we use in a group I work with. It is definitely an antidote to the kind of behavior that Patricia is talking about. BTW, the group I work with always starts a business meeting with a short meditation. It brings calm and allows for non-violent communication. For more about Rosenberg's methods go to http://www.cnvc.org/ Yogendradhandapani , "stinger9oh" <stinger9oh wrote:>> What we have to offer is the way to the stillness that allows the > presence of God to be felt. We live in a hubbub visual, aural, and > verbal pollution. Trying to deal with that in its own terms just > will not work on a spiritual level. Breathe and meditate. These > have carried us through crises for millenia. Everyone deserves the > opportunity to find inner stillness and the presence of God. Make > possible for individual family members to experience this first, then > work with the family as a group. Meditation is a great equalizer. > No one can claim to the "boss" meditator. Take people to their inner > selves and they will find God.> > Yogendra> > dhandapani , Patricia Jay <patriciajay2000@> > wrote:> >> > Dear Group Members> > > > This is definitely the most committed, sincere and dedicated > group I have experienced! All contributors are very committed to > learning, inputting and advancing the goal of God-realization thru > Lord Murugan.> > > > While I find all the spiritual and scripture knowledge very self-> illuminating, I wonder if group members could contribute more. > > > > Let me explain what I mean. Today's Hindu society faces some > challenges that were unheard of, (and even unthinkable!!!), some time > back.> > > > With more education, more exposure to knowledge, and enormous > changes in the economic styles today, the earlier way of thinking is >

not working to solve problems of contemporary Hindu individuals. > > > > So many more women than before are not just educated today, but > even highly educated. Its also very common to see wives earning more > than husbands in many households. Earlier, relations were based on > economic equation in the family, and the economic equation was > unchanged for centuries.> > > > Change naturally causes conflict. Its takes time for the change > to get digested and people adapt to it. But until that happy state > occurs, what inputs are there in spiritual knowledge, scriptures, > that can help families cope with the pain caused by changing > circumstances?> > > > Another example is joblessness. Economies grow, other economies > collapse, familes are geographically seperated because economic > survival demands it. > > > >

(Very often, I'm called in to counsel troubled families, troubled > individuals. I get constantly shocked at the kind of low standard > behavior that my clients have to suffer within the family unit. > > > > In these situations, more than logic, spiritual and philosophical > inputs have helped my clients in may ways. Still, I find myself > short of more "spiritual ammuninition" to combat the advancing forces > of destructive behavior caused by changes).> > > > A last example. Sometimes, its the head of the family unit > (could be male or female) who behaves (or utters words) > irresponsibly. This has a devastating effect on family members who > begin to question the existence of God and spirituality. This in > turn, causes a lot of disturbing behaviors!!> > > > I look forward to some interesting replies.> > > >

Patricia> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get your own web address.> > Have a HUGE year through Small Business.> >>

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