Valli & Devasena

[Guest guest]

Dear Members

 

To my knowledge, Lord Murugan has got 2 consorts - Valli and Devasena. I'm also familiar with the stories of how they wed Him.

 

One thing that puzzles me is why there is greater reference to Valli as Murugan's beloved a great deal of the time. Mention of Devasena is a lot less. I wonder if any group member has got a good interpretation of this.

 

Thanks

Patricia

[Guest guest]

Muruga Saranam

 

I don't know if Vali has been mentioned more to give the impression of a belovedness and preference from Lord Muruga. May be that as human beings we have more connection through Valli to Him. I happened to hear Valli Thirumanam through Variyar's CD. IN that he mentions that Marriage of Lord Muruga with Valli is a symboil of union of Jiva (Valli) and Siva (Lord Muruga). The Sivam itself is so merciful that It comes and takes control and makes union of Jiva out of infinite Mercy. He mentions that if Lord Muruga's marriage with Valli was like a human one, she would have given birth to a child. But this is more than that.

 

It is said that Amuthavalli and Sundaravalli came from the eyes of Lord Vishnu who later took birth as Deivanai and Valli. They were so loving to each other as sisters that they wanted to marry the same man. Later Amuthavalli takes birth as a child and walks to Indira who was tormented by Surapadma and hiding in a cave. His elephant raises the child and hence she got the name Deiva Yanai (Celestial Elephant). On the other side when Lord Vishnu looks at the red deear (semmaan), it gets pregnant and gives birth to a child in the pit where Valli Kilangu is harvested. Hence the name Valli and the child was raised by Nambi Rajan.

 

It is a great experience and pleasure to hear the story and illustration from someone like Variyar. He talks in length about Valli's activities and the meanings of the folk songs she sings. All the story has lots of inetersting meanings that will be well understood if one listens to it well. Otherwise it will look like a normal simple human story. Lord Gives upadesam to Valli. Only to three people He has given Upadesam it seems (apart from Lord Siva), that is Agathiyar, Arunagirinathar and Valli.

 

I may not be accurate in my understanding. So please feel free to correct me.

 

Muruga Saranam

 

Vetrivel Muruganukku Arohara

With Best RegardsMeyyappan S

 

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Patricia Jay <patriciajay2000 wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Members

 

To my knowledge, Lord Murugan has got 2 consorts - Valli and Devasena.  I'm also familiar with the stories of how they wed Him.

 

One thing that puzzles me is why there is greater reference to Valli as Murugan's beloved a great deal of the time.  Mention of Devasena is a lot less.  I wonder if any group member has got a good interpretation of this.

 

Thanks

Patricia

[Guest guest]

Dear Members,The overwhelming popularity of one of Lord Murugan's consorts, Valli, over the other, Teyvayanai or Devasena, among Tamil devotees is by no means a modern phenomenon only, but harks back to the earliest strata of Tamil literature. The esteemed dravidologist Dr. Kamil V. Zvelebil once devoted an entire article to this topic of " Murugan and Valli " , in which he traces the origins in literature of Valli and Devasena. The entire article is available online at www.murugan.org/research/zvelebil.htm

Here are extracts that summarize Zvelebil's observations: " The story of Murugan’s courtship and his union with the daughter of the hunters, Valli, is the most important of all Tamil myths of the second marriage of a god. In the Sanskrit tradition, Skanda is either an eternal brahmacÄrin (bachelor) or the husband of a rather colourless deity, Devasena, the Army of the Gods. In Tamil, in contrast, the earliest reference to a bride of Murugan is to Valli and there can be no doubt whatsoever that Valli is the more popular and more important of Murugan's two brides. Hence, I do regard the lovely myth of Murugan and Valli as an indigenous-autochthonous myth, a Dravidian myth; it also contains some of the oldest indigenous fragments of myth to survive, and some of the most ancient conceptual and ideological apparatus of the Tamils. "

" One of the references (to Valli the person) belongs to the earliest strata of Tamil texts: Narrinai 82.4. The poem belongs to the kurinci sub-type of akam poetry and may be dated to the 2nd-3rd Cent. AD. It says: niye/ennul varutiyo nalnataik koticci murukupunarntu iyanra valli pola  " Oh you, girl of the mountain tribe whose gait is beautiful, will you come to me like Valli who had gladly agreed to join Muruku? "

" The erotic association is clear: the hero invites the girl to join him as Tamil term punar in murukupuaarntu valli means 'to reunite, particularly sexually, to cohabit'. It is therefore clear that in the 2nd or 3rd Cent. AD the story of Valli and Murugan -- i.e. the nucleus of the myth narrated above in the sense of Valli being the beloved and sexual partner of Murugan -- was sufficiently well-known to provide a divine model for human behaviour and a material for the poet to draw a simile from. "

Zvelebil notes that in the late Sangam period poem Tirumurukarruppatai: " The term karpu in line 6 of the poem (Skt. kalpaa?) by which Devasena is alluded to means 'fundamental duty, rule, chastity'. It refers to a form of marriage which is according to the rules of the Brahminic order; and indeed Devasena alias Tevayanai has become the symbol of the regular Hindu marriage performed according to Brahminic Hindu rites while Valli, as is clear mainly from the Paripatal, obviously was considered the symbol of kalavu, love-relationship based on katal 'love affection' and of marriage performed according to pre-Aryan, non-Brahminic rites. In fact -- and this is the important conclusion of this talk -- Murugan and Valli are mythic exemplars of the ancient and indigenous Tamil motif of kalavu -- the pre-marital union of lovers. "

Zvelebil has also observed elsewhere, that in pre-Brahminical Sangam times the classical literature describes young unmarried women of Madurai as offering flowers and lamps to Murugan together with their prayers that they might have the boon of a 'love marriage' rather than an arranged marriage. Plainly, in ancient times the type of marriage based on katal 'love affection' was considered preferable, even superior, to arranged marriage. This also coincides neatly with early Sangam poetry with its theme of the punar relationship of the hero-stranger and the love-sick Kurinji maiden (akin to Vettar hunting folk) who are not named in the poems (as the Sangam period poetic conventions dictated) but were understood to be the model, or reflection, of Murugan and Valli.

The consistently colourful depiction of Valli and Murugan contrasts with the relatively bland or colourless depiction of Teyvanai and her relationship to Murugan. Most depictions of Teyvanai that I have heard or read of, in fact, are actually scenarios contrasting her with Valli, usually unfavourably. Tamil people, like Lord Murugan Himself, appear to have favoured Valli over Devasena in ancient times as well in later eras, and Sangam poetry also attests that not only the rustic Kurinji womenfolk, but also sophisticated young women of Madurai shared a similar set of values concerning marriage and the 'scandalous' (by latter day standards, at least) love relationship of Valli and Lord Skanda-Murukan (as an etymological footnote, Sanskrit skanda 'the leaper' and Greek 'skandalon 'that which cannot be leapt out of', i.e. scandal, are cognates derived from the same Indo-European root skand).

So there are both important similarities between ancient and modern Tamil peoples, and important differences, mostly arising out of the gradual process of acculturation through contact first with northern Brahminical culture and later with western European culture. When studying and trying to understand these differences, it is tempting to rush to judgment, but better to refrain from judgment.

Yours in service,Patrick HarriganOn Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 6:09 AM, Patricia Jay <patriciajay2000 wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Members

 

To my knowledge, Lord Murugan has got 2 consorts - Valli and Devasena.  I'm also familiar with the stories of how they wed Him.

 

One thing that puzzles me is why there is greater reference to Valli as Murugan's beloved a great deal of the time.  Mention of Devasena is a lot less.  I wonder if any group member has got a good interpretation of this.

 

Thanks

Patricia

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

dhandapani , Patricia Jay <patriciajay2000

wrote:

>

> Dear Members

>  

> To my knowledge, Lord Murugan has got 2 consorts - Valli and

Devasena.  I'm also familiar with the stories of how they wed Him.

>  

> One thing that puzzles me is why there is greater reference to Valli

as Murugan's beloved a great deal of the time.  Mention of Devasena

is a lot less.  I wonder if any group member has got a good

interpretation of this.

>  

> Thanks

> Patricia

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Members,

 

The overwhelming popularity of one of Lord Murugan's consorts, Valli, over the

other, Teyvayanai or Devasena, among Tamil devotees is by no means a modern

phenomenon only, but harks back to the earliest strata of Tamil literature. The

esteemed dravidologist Dr. Kamil V. Zvelebil once devoted an entire article to

this topic of " Murugan and Valli " , in which he traces the origins in literature

of Valli and Devasena. The entire article is available online at

www.murugan.org/research/zvelebil.htm

 

Here are extracts that summarize Zvelebil's observations:

 

" The story of Murugan's courtship and his union with the daughter of the

hunters, Valli, is the most important of all Tamil myths of the second marriage

of a god. In the Sanskrit tradition, Skanda is either an eternal

brahmac & #257;rin (bachelor) or the husband of a rather colourless deity,

Devasena, the Army of the Gods. In Tamil, in contrast, the earliest reference to

a bride of Murugan is to Valli and there can be no doubt whatsoever that Valli

is the more popular and more important of Murugan's two brides. Hence, I do

regard the lovely myth of Murugan and Valli as an indigenous-autochthonous myth,

a Dravidian myth; it also contains some of the oldest indigenous fragments of

myth to survive, and some of the most ancient conceptual and ideological

apparatus of the Tamils. "

 

" One of the references (to Valli the person) belongs to the earliest strata of

Tamil texts: Narrinai 82.4. The poem belongs to the kurinci sub-type of akam

poetry and may be dated to the 2nd-3rd Cent. AD. It says: niye/ennul varutiyo

nalnataik koticci murukupunarntu iyanra valli pola " Oh you, girl of the mountain

tribe whose gait is beautiful, will you come to me like Valli who had gladly

agreed to join Muruku? "

 

" The erotic association is clear: the hero invites the girl to join him as Tamil

term punar in murukupuaarntu valli means 'to reunite, particularly sexually, to

cohabit'. It is therefore clear that in the 2nd or 3rd Cent. AD the story of

Valli and Murugan -- i.e. the nucleus of the myth narrated above in the sense of

Valli being the beloved and sexual partner of Murugan -- was sufficiently

well-known to provide a divine model for human behaviour and a material for the

poet to draw a simile from. "

 

Zvelebil notes that in the late Sangam period poem Tirumurukarruppatai:

 

" The term karpu in line 6 of the poem (Skt. kalpaa?) by which Devasena is

alluded to means 'fundamental duty, rule, chastity'. It refers to a form of

marriage which is according to the rules of the Brahminic order; and indeed

Devasena alias Tevayanai has become the symbol of the regular Hindu marriage

performed according to Brahminic Hindu rites while Valli, as is clear mainly

from the Paripatal, obviously was considered the symbol of kalavu,

love-relationship based on katal 'love affection' and of marriage performed

according to pre-Aryan, non-Brahminic rites. In fact -- and this is the

important conclusion of this talk -- Murugan and Valli are mythic exemplars of

the ancient and indigenous Tamil motif of kalavu -- the pre-marital union of

lovers. "

 

Zvelebil has also observed elsewhere, that in pre-Brahminical Sangam times the

classical literature describes young unmarried women of Madurai as offering

flowers and lamps to Murugan together with their prayers that they might have

the boon of a 'love marriage' rather than an arranged marriage. Plainly, in

ancient times the type of marriage based on katal 'love affection' was

considered preferable, even superior, to arranged marriage. This also coincides

neatly with early Sangam poetry with its theme of the punar relationship of the

hero-stranger and the love-sick Kurinji maiden (akin to Vettar hunting folk) who

are not named in the poems (as the Sangam period poetic conventions dictated)

but were understood to be the model, or reflection, of Murugan and Valli.

 

The consistently colourful depiction of Valli and Murugan contrasts with the

relatively bland or colourless depiction of Teyvanai and her relationship to

Murugan. Most depictions of Teyvanai that I have heard or read of, in fact, are

actually scenarios contrasting her with Valli, usually unfavourably. Tamil

people, like Lord Murugan Himself, appear to have favoured Valli over Devasena

in ancient times as well in later eras, and Sangam poetry also attests that not

only the rustic Kurinji womenfolk, but also sophisticated young women of Madurai

shared a similar set of values concerning marriage and the 'scandalous' (by

latter day standards, at least) love relationship of Valli and Lord

Skanda-Murukan (as an etymological footnote, Sanskrit skanda 'the leaper' and

Greek 'skandalon 'that which cannot be leapt out of', i.e. scandal, are cognates

derived from the same Indo-European root skand).

 

So there are both important similarities between ancient and modern Tamil

peoples, and important differences, mostly arising out of the gradual process of

acculturation through contact first with northern Brahminical culture and later

with western European culture. When studying and trying to understand these

differences, it is tempting to rush to judgment, but better to refrain from

judgment.

 

Yours in service,

Patrick Harrigan

editor

 

dhandapani , Patricia Jay <patriciajay2000 wrote:

>

> Dear Members

>  

> To my knowledge, Lord Murugan has got 2 consorts - Valli and Devasena.  I'm

also familiar with the stories of how they wed Him.

>  

> One thing that puzzles me is why there is greater reference to Valli as

Murugan's beloved a great deal of the time.  Mention of Devasena is a lot less. 

I wonder if any group member has got a good interpretation of this.

>  

> Thanks

> Patricia

>