Big Animal vs. Small Animal

[Guest guest]

This is a conversation between His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta

Swami Prabhupada and a

guest, Dr. Christian Hauser, a psychiatrist, that took place in

Stockholm in September 1973.

Srila Prabhupada: Certainly

the soul—the soul— can go from one species of body to

another, say from a monkey body to a human body, or vice versa. This

understanding is nice. Not that the monkey body can change into a human

body. That "understanding" is nonsense. Cheating.

Dr. Hauser:

But some of this cheating, as you call it, must still have been of great

use to mankind, because for all these centuries, not much has been known

at all. So these scientists have been working ac­cording to whatever

level of knowledge they have reached, and—

Srila Prabhupada:

Yes, that is explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam: In the jungle,

the small animals look up to a bigger animal as their leader. But he's

still an animal, is he not?

Dr. Hauser:

I don't really understand.

Srila Prabhupada:

In the jungle or in the forest . . .

Dr. Hauser:

Yes.

Srila Prabhupada:

.. . . a lion, for instance, is considered to be the king of the animals.

So the lion may be a big animal. But after all, he's still an animal.

Dr. Hausen:

So you mean the modern scientist is a big lion.

Srila Prabhupada:

Yes. A big rascal. That's it. A big rascal. A big rascal is lionized by

small rascals. That's all.

Dr. Hauser:

A big rascal seducing the small rascals.

Srila Prabhupada:

Yes, that is the situation. Today everything is going on like that. Not

only in science, but also in philosophy, religion, sociology, and

politics. The big rascal and the small rascals. That's all.

Dr. Hauser:

But you must evoke a lot of feelings when you say, for example, that

Einstein was a very big rascal.

Srila Prabhupada:

No. Einstein believed in God. Yes, he believed in God. So he was not a

rascal. He was a sane man. He believed in God. He tried to find out

about the brain of God, the unlimited intelligence of God. Many

scientists believe in God, but unfortunately, the rascals have captured

a prominent position.

The people who are defying

God— they're rascals, animals. Harav abhak-tasya kuta mahad gunah. Unless

one is God conscious, he's a rascal.

Maybe one's understanding

of God is not perfect. But if he thinks God exists, that is

intelligence. But the rascals, the two-legged animals, will never accept

God or their own soul. Just as in Russia . A set of rascals. They do

not believe in God.

Dr. Hauser:

But the religious interest in Russia is there, is greater than in any

other country in Europe . But not the leaders. The leaders are not—

Srila Prabhupada:

I speak of the leaders. Not only in Russia —everywhere. The leaders are

big animals, and they are happy only if they can make the ordinary

people into small animals. The leaders— the rascal leaders are spoiling

the whole world situation. In India , also. In India , by nature eighty

percent of the people are aloof from the four main sinful activities.

But at the present moment the government, the leaders, are inducing the

people to eat flesh, to take intoxicants, to gamble, and to have illicit

sex.

Oh, yes—because nowadays

government means rascal. Take this Nixon. Once in power, he proved

himself a rascal. And virtually all the government leaders—government

leader has come to mean rascal.

Dr. Hauser :

Although Nixon says, in every television speech, that he is a believer

of God.

Srila Prabhupada:

That is simply politics.

Dr. Hauser:

Yes.

Srila Prabhupada:

He may be a God believer, but he has little use for God in his practical

life. If a man doesn't use his practical life to awaken his dormant God

consciousness, or Krishna consciousness, then he has simply wasted time.

Dr. Hauser:

But in this country, for in­stance, if somebody's a Protestant, or, I

mean, a Christian who goes to church, this is also of value, is it not?

You don't try to convert them away from that?

Srila Prabhupada:

No, no. We have no such process.

Dr. Hauser:

Because your movement is extremely distinctive.

Srila Prabhupada:

Yes. But we don't try to convert anyone. For instance, a gentle­man was

asking, "Why are these young ladies dressing in Indian saris?” Now,

I never instructed them, "You do that." But they are doing it of their

own accord. I never canvassed people to become Hindus or some such

thing. No. Our request is, "Just become God conscious." Any outward form

of religion is all right. It doesn't matter—provided the follower

awakens his dormant God conscious­ness. Then that is first-class

religion.

But suppose somebody is

not awakened to the standard of God consciousness. Then he may follow

some form of religion, but it is a waste of time. That is our only

concern. We don't want official religiosity. In Sanskrit that is called dharma-dhvaji.

Dhvaja means "flag." So, usually a man simply wants to have a

flag: "I belong to this religion." That's all.

But if I ask him, "What do

you actually know about religion?" he cannot explain. "What is the

nature of God?" He cannot explain. "Who are you—beyond your body?" He

cannot explain.

Simply he has a flag: "I

am Hindu.I am Muslim.I am Christian." And he will fight those who

have some other kind of flag. He may be thinking, "1 am a big man, a

great soul." But in truth he is a small animal.