Todays Bhagavad- Gita Class As it is Ch 1 Text 26 Spoken By His Divine grace Srila Prabhupada in London 7-21-73

[Guest guest]

 

 

 

 

"Society Friendship and Love"

73/07/21 London, Bhagavad-gita 1.26listen

 

 

 

 

 

Pradyumna (leads chanting, etc.):

tatrapasyat sthitan parthahpitrn atha pitamahanacaryan matulan bhratrnputran pautran sakhims tathasvasuran suhrdas caivasenayor ubhayor api [bg. 1.26]

tan samiksya sa kaunteyahsarvan bandhun avasthitankrpaya parayavistovisidann idam abravit [bg. 1.27]

Translation: "There Arjuna could see, within the midst of the armies of both parties, his fathers, grandfathers, teachers, maternal uncles, brothers, sons, grandsons, friends, and also his father-in-law and well-wishers -- all present there. When the son of Kunti, Arjuna, saw all these different grades of friends and relatives, he became overwhelmed with compassion and spoke thus."

Prabhupada: This is the problem. Now Arjuna is facing the problem. What is this problem? Suppose you bring all my friends, my relatives, my sons, grandsons, my father-in-law, brother-in-law, friends, my animals... Because there were soldiers, senayor ubhayor api, there were animals also. Horses, elephants. They are also within the membership. According to Vedic conception, the animals, they are also members of your family. Because they are giving service. Not that one section of the members of my family I give protection, and the other section, I take everything from them and then cut throat. This is not civilization. You keep your sons, wife, daughters, cows, dogs, they are animals, asses, domestic animals, horses, elephants. If you are rich, you can keep elephants also. It does not mean... Either family-wise or state-wise, it does not mean that you give protection to some members and cut throat of the others. Oh, how horrible it is. So all of them were present now. And the problem is that he has to kill them, Arjuna. It is fight, it is a family fight.

So some of the family members on the other side, and some of the family members this side. So other side also, what are they? Tatrapasyat sthitan parthah pitrn atha pitamahan. Pitrn, teachers, and pitrn also. Pitrn means those who are on the status of father. And Bhismadeva was a grandfather, a real grandfather, pitamaha. He is on the other side. Dronacarya, he is on the other side, teacher. They had to be respected. Actually Arjuna did so. Before fighting with Dronacarya, he first of all throw one arrow on his lotus feet, obeisances. This is the etiquette. "My dear sir, you have taught me this fighting science, now it is being used against you, duty. So I offer my obeisances." And Dronacarya also, threw another arrow, touching his head: "My dear boy, become blessed." This is duty. How blessed? "By killing me. I know you will kill me, so I give you blessings that you kill me." This is duty. The disciple is fighting, touching the feet of Dronacarya: "My dear sir, it is duty. Now we are face to face to fight. So give me your blessing." This is one side. The other side, blessing, "Yes, you have my all blessings."

So this is the problem. This material world is problematic, especially when we have got these family relationships. "Society, friendship, and love, divinely bestowed upon man." They say. (laughs) It is not divinely bestowed. It is not. It is entanglement. It is entanglement. Dehapatya. There is verse in the Second Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Dehapatya. What is that verse? Dehapatya-kalatradi. Deha, first affection is with our body. "I am this Mr. Such and such. This is I am, this body." I have got attraction for this body. Then the offsprings, the by-products of this body. Apatya. Apatya means children. And how this by-product is made? Kalatra, through wife. Stri. Stri means which expands. Vistara, expands. I am alone. I accept wife, stri, and with her cooperation I expand. So one who helps me to expand, that is called stri. Every Sanskrit word has got meaning. Why woman is called stri? Because she helps, expanding myself. How expanding? Dehapatya-kalatradisu [sB 2.1.4]. I get my children. First of all I was affectionate to my body. Then, as soon as I get a wife, I become affectionate to her. Then, as soon as I get children, I become affectionate to children. In this way I expand my affection for this material world. This material world, attachment. It is not required. It is a foreign thing. This material body is foreign. I am spiritual. I am spiritual, aham brahmasmi. But because I wanted to lord it over the material nature, Krsna has given me this body. Daiva-netrena. He is giving you body. He is giving the body of Brahma, He is giving you the body of ant. As you desire. As you desire. If you want the body of a tiger, Krsna will give you. If you want the body of a hog, He will give you. If you want the body of Brahma, He will give you. If you want the body of a demigod, He will give you. If you want the body of American, He will give you. Englishman, He will give you. Indian, He will give you. That is Krsna. He is so kind. Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [bg. 4.11]. Krsna is very kind. Just like a son disobedient to the father, but he wants to enjoy something. Still, father giving him, "All right, you take money, and enjoy." Father is so kind. "You become free. Whatever you like, you can do. You take some money." This is our concession.

This material life is a concession to us, given by God, for gratifying our senses. This is material life. Krsna does not want that you become entangled in this material world. That He doesn't want. Why He should want? Krsna... Just like you produce your sons, children. Why? To remain in household life, enjoy in the company of wife, children, friends. This is... One can understand. Why I take so much responsibility of family? I was alone. Why I get married? Why I beget children? Why I make friends? Because I want to enjoy. So Krsna is also a person. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13). He has produced so many children, these living entities. Why? To enjoy along with them. Just try to understand the psychology. Yato va imani bhutani jayante, janmady asya yatah [sB 1.1.1]. Where this idea came from, that "I shall be happy within society, friendship and love, children?" Wherefrom this idea came? Where is the origin? The origin is there in Krsna. Janmady asya yatah [sB 1.1.1]. Janmady asya yatah. The origin of love. Just like Krsna is loving Radharani. So the loving idea came from Krsna. Anything that is within our experience, that is in Krsna. So Krsna cannot be impersonal. That is nonsense. Krsna is exactly a person like me, you. But the difference is that He's very, very, unlimitedly powerful. I am limited. This is the difference. So Krsna also wants that to live with His family. Our Krsna consciousness movement is just to train ourselves again to enter into the family of Krsna. This is our movement. With these families, the so-called families, we are suffering. We are suffering. But this family idea is there this. That is perfect in Krsna, with Krsna. The family idea, wherefrom family idea comes without it is being situated in Krsna? Because nothing can be visible without being in Krsna. He is the origin. Janmady asya yatah [sB 1.1.1]. Aham sarvasya prabhavah: [bg. 10.8] "I am the origin of everything."

So whatever we are seeing in this material world, the origin is in Krsna. But here it is perverted. That is the only difference. Just like a tree. The original tree is standing erect. But when you see the perverted reflection of the tree, everything is topsy-turvied. The upside has gone downside. You have seen the reflection of the tree. So the upside, downside. When the upside of the tree becomes downside, that is called perverted reflection. So this material world is perverted reflection of the spiritual world. It is false in this sense because it is reflection. Otherwise, exactly the same things are there in the spiritual world. Urdhva-mulam adhah-sakham asvattham prahur avyayam [bg. 15.1]. There is. In the Bhagavad-gita you will find in the Fifteenth Chapter. Urdhva-mulam. Here, this material world, the origin -- mulam means root -- is upside, upside. Because it is reflection. This tree is erect, and this is reflection. So the root has gone upside. So here is the problem. Because we are attached to our this so-called family, society, friendship and love... When Arjuna was faced, then he became krpaya parayavisto visidann idam abravit. "How it is possible, Krsna, that I have to kill the other side, my fathers, my father-in-law, my grandfather, my sons, my grandsons, my brother, my so many friends?" So it is natural. Krpaya paraya avistah. He becomes overwhelmed with compassion. Krpaya parayavisto visidan. Very morosely. "Oh, Krsna, I will have to fight with them. I will have to kill them." Why this consciousness came? The other side also, Duryodhana, why he did not think in that way? Why Arjuna is thinking? Because he is devotee. That is the difference. A devotee thinks like that. A devotee does not like to kill anyone, even an ant. Why he should be encouraged to kill his friends? A devotee is like that. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunais tatra samasate surah. This is the result of devotional life. Arjuna was insulted. Arjuna was taken away all his belongings. Arjuna was banished for thirteen years. His wife was insulted. So many atrocities was done to him. Still, when the question of killing came, he was not very happy: "No." This is Vaisnava. This is Vaisnava. He is ready to excuse even the greatest enemy. But Krsna does not want. If you insult His devotee, the devotee may excuse, but Krsna will not excuse. This is Krsna's position. Therefore be careful to insult a devotee. A devotee may excuse you. But Krsna will not excuse you. Krsna is so strict. He cannot tolerate any insult to His devotee. Therefore this arrangement of fighting. Arjuna wanted, "No, let them be excused." Krsna wanted, "No, you must fight. You must kill them." This is the position. So he is within the dilemma. Krsna is insisting that "You must fight and kill them," but he is thinking, "How shall I kill my kinsmen?" This is the problem. Therefore, tan samiksya sa kaunteyah sarvan bandhun avasthitan. All friends are there. Krpaya parayavisto visidann idam abravit. So this is one side, that if you want to please Krsna, then you have to be prepared for killing your so-called relatives. If you want Krsna. If you want to please Krsna.

So this whole Vedic civilization is made just to train how you can be detached from this so-called family affection. This is Vedic training. First of all brahmacari. Brahmacari means to lead the life of austerity. A brahmacari is supposed to live to serve the spiritual master at his home, and he has to work just like a menial. He may be a king's son or a very great brahmana's son, but as soon as he agrees to live with the spiritual master, he has to live just like a menial servant. Whatever the spiritual master will order, he has to do it. This is brahmacari. And they will gladly do, because they are children.

 

Brahmacari life begins from five years. So you ask any child do anything, he will do. They are learned. They are given education, "Go from door to door, house to house, and bring some alms." So brahmacari means the neighborhood, their sons. So when the brahmacari goes for begging, "Mother, give me something, alms," so immediately, some rice, some dahl, some atta, is given, or some vegetables, sometimes some money. So they bring everything to the spiritual master and it becomes the property of the spiritual master. Because he has begged, it is not his property. Sarvasvam guru-veditam(?). Everything is guru's property. So much so that after cooking everything, the spiritual master will call, "My dear boys, come on. Take prasadam." But if he forgets to call somebody, he will not touch. He will not touch. This is brahmacari. "Oh, spiritual master has not called me; so I will fast." (laughter) He begged the rice and vegetables and atta and dahl. It is cooked. But when it is cooked, that is also spiritual master's property. If the spiritual master does not ask him to take, he cannot take. He cannot touch. This is brahmacari life. So therefore the first training is given, to become austere, tolerate, how to tolerate, how to call other women as "mother." He is learning from the beginning, a small child. He is trained up to call any woman, even of his own age, not "sister," -- "mother." This is the training. Matrvat para-daresu. This is education. Matrvat para-daresu. Canakya Pandita, the great politician, has given the definition of a learned scholar. Who is learned scholar? He has given the definition. What is this? Matrvat para-daresu. To see every woman except his wife as mother. This is education. This is education, perfection of education, when you can see all women except your wife as mother. This is education. Matrvat para-daresu para-dravyesu lostravat. And others' property? Just like garbage in the street. Nobody is interested in the garbage. You throw. That is education. And atmavat sarva-bhutesu. And thinking all living entities as your own self. If you feel pains and pleasure by something, you could not afflict the pains to others. If your throat is cut, if your head is cut, you feel so much pain, how you can cut the head of another animal? This is education. Samah sarvesu-bhutesu. This is education, three things. This is the test of education.

matrvat para-daresupara-dravyesu lostravatatmavat sarva-bhutesuyah pasyati sa panditah

Where is? Where is that pandita? There is no such thing now.

So this problem, attachment for this material world, gradually we have to cut it. That is the Vedic civilization. If you want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then at the same time, if you remain attached to this material world, so-called society, friendship and love, then it is not possible. So long you will have a pinch of attraction with this material world, there is no possibility of being transferred to the spiritual world. This is the position. Therefore by training, by education, we have to become detached. Detached, this society, friendship and love. We have to understand the falsity of this so-called society, friendship and love. Because we are being carried away by the waves of maya. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has sung, mayar bose, jaccho bhese, Khaccho habudubu bhai. Just like we see sometimes in rainy season, so many plants and creepers and vegetables and so many other things are floating in the river, going. Similarly, we also, all floating in the waves of maya. Mayar bose, jaccho bhese, khaccho habudubu. Sometimes drowned, sometimes on the surface, sometimes on the other shore, sometimes on this shore. This is going on. So long we are in this material world, we are being tossed by different currents, and sometimes I am here as the master of some kingdom, and sometimes I am dog of somebody else. This is my position. The same thing. Very good example, that we are being carried away by the waves of maya. Sometimes we are gathering together. So many straws and vegetables, they gather together. And sometimes the same vegetables and straws are thrown asunder. One is there, one is here. So here also, we assemble here as society, friendship and love exactly like that. In the waves of maya. Then nobody is your father, nobody is your mother, nobody is your sister, nobody. It is simply mayic, illusory combination. Illusory combination, temporary combination. And we are so much attached to this combination that we are refusing to go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our position.

Therefore we have to meet them in the battlefield of Kuruksetra, and if required, we have to kill them and execute the order of Krsna. This is our position. If we are thinking that "In this material existence I shall be safe, assisted by my society, friendship, love, country, and politics and sociology,No, no, sir, it is not possible." It is not possible. You have to take care of yourself. Your so-called society, friendship, love, country, nation, and this, never will be able to help you. Because you are under the clutches of maya. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya [bg. 7.14].

prakrteh kriyamananigunaih karmani sarvasahahankara-vimudhatmakartaham iti manyate [bg. 3.27]

You are under the clutches of maya. you have no independence. Neither anyone has got any independence to save you. That is not possible. The same example as I gave sometimes, that you learn how to drive aeroplane. So you go high in the sky. But if you are in danger, no other aeroplane can help you. You are finished. Therefore you must be a very careful pilot to take care of yourself. Similarly, in this material world everyone individually has to take care of himself. How he can be saved from the clutches of maya. That is Krsna consciousness movement. A teacher can give you hints. The acarya can give you hints that "You can be saved in this way." But the execution of the duties, that is in your hand. If you perform the spiritual duties rightly, then you are saved. Otherwise, even acarya gives you instruction, if you don't follow, so how he can save you? He can save you by instruction, by his mercy, as much as possible. But you have to take it in your hands seriously.

So this problem is... Arjuna is facing now this problem. That is general problem. Dehapatya-kalatradisu. Dehapatya. Deha means this body. Apatya means children. Kalatra means wife. Dehapatya-kalatradisv atma-sainyesv asatsv api [sB 2.1.4]. We are thinking that "We shall be protected by my these soldiers. I have got my sons, grandsons, my grandfather, my father-in-law, my brother-in-law, my so many society, friendship and love." Everyone is thinking like that. "My nation, my community, my philosophy, my politics. No. Nothing can save you. Dehapatya-kalatradisu asatsu api. They are all temporary. They come and go. Asatsu api. Pramatto tasya nidhanam pasyann api na pasyati. One who is too much attached to this society, friendship and love, he is pramatta. Pramatta means crazy, madman. Pasyann api na, tasya nidhanam. He does not see. Although he is seeing that "My father has died. When I was a child, my father was giving me protection. Now my father has gone away. Who is giving me protection? Is my father alive to give me protection? Who is giving me protection? My mother was giving me protection. Now who is giving me protection? I was in family, my sons, my daughters, my wife, but I left them. Now who is giving me protection?" And actually Krsna gives you protection always. Not your society, friendship and love. They will be finished. As your father is finished, as your grandfather is finished, similarly, your sons, grandsons, will be finished. None of them will be able to give you protection. Only Krsna will be giving you protection. Therefore you surrender to Krsna. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksa... [bg. 18.66]. "I shall give you protection." Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati: [bg. 9.31] "My devotee is never vanquished." So the best thing is to take to Krsna consciousness, fully surrender unto Him, and you will be protected. Otherwise, there is no other way of being protected. We'll be carried away by the waves of maya. This is the position.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end)

 

 

Please Look at Wonders of Krsna's Home Page where you can get a

Origanal Bhagavad -Gita As it is, Unchanged ,Translated by Srila Prabhupada,Just for the cost of Printing,as a Donation,So I can Get more Gitas to distribute http://jayakesava108.tripod.com

Thank you for Reading or listening,Your Servant.-Jaya Kesava Dasa

 

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© 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International. Used with permission.

[Guest guest]

Dear Steve Verges,Please Accept MY humble obiesances!All Glories To Srila

Prabhupada!

I very much understand what you are talking about,though I think in

Explaining,you need not curse, So much ,to get the point across! To answer

Your Question, to begin with,Yes I Love Krsna,with all my heart and soul,and

thoughts from my soul!If this means, if I am A Man of Krsna,the Answer is

yes!I understand ,You calling, Some former,Very powerful People,

Fagots,Homosexuals,and Child Molesters,Rip offs,murderers ,and power Hungy

Members ,who were once Worshiped On the Level of God,Yes I aggree!

I myself,am a house holder,Married,we just had our 30th wedding date pass,55

years old,with Grown Children 25,and 27 years old!

I understand Completly,Because I lived at New Vrndavana,for 3 -4

years,1980-1984Under the Dictaorship of Kirtadanda,And We was Horified !We

would not let Our Children go to Gurukula,and Followed the Princables Of

Srila Prabhupada,16 rounds of Hare Krsna Mantra,and attended Morning

Services!We did not take inisiation from Kirtadanada,And was always Kept in

Fear,From Him,and His Henshmen,And we were Aloof From Many Of The Goings

on,But was Aware of them,and it broke my heart ,To Know of the Things That

Happened!

Krsna was Always Protecting us,By Giving us the Assiosiation ,and Wonderful

Friendship of A real Pure Devotee,Named Radhanath Dasa,Who was Also Under

The Attack of Kirtadanda,By Keeping Him Up at the Old Farm House,And Doing

All night Kirtans ,,at the Main temple,then Sending Him away ,During the

Day,So no one Could Get His Pure Assiosiation! He Gently Took us Under His

Protection,and we wouldnt have made it ,that Long Except For Radhanath

Dasa!Even though I was in Srila Prabhupada's Presance 5 Times,He had Passed

His Body before I could take Inisiation from Him,and I didnt want to be

Kirtadanda's Disciple.We had Gunshots Fired over out tent,With two Small

Children There,and thats When We Left!

After A long time ,When Radhanath Became a Swami,He gave us Initiation,A

Year After We asked Him,As I think He was Forced To initiate,

Devotees,Because there was no one Pure, to Help Devotees ,Who Were Lost ,Due

to Kirtadanda, Being Thrown out,and was in Jail,So by the Mercy of Radhanath

Swami,We became Linked To Srila Prabhupada, and the Disciplic Succession

Eternally!!Unfortunately,We havent been to an ISCKON Temple in Years Due to

my Wifes Very Serious health Condition,She needs a liver Transplant,From Two

Pints of Blood She was Given,When she Miscarried our First Child 30 Years

Ago,That Left Her with Hep C,and a Liver that now is Barely Working,She

cannot Even Walk Now,even with a walker! So I AM VERY BUSY,just taking carte

of her!

We Live Way Back in the Mountains Of West Virginia,and I dont have a Shaved

Head,Nor do we normally Dress in Saris and Dhoties,But We are still

Devotees,Though the Only Assisiation I have, is From the Internet,I am the

Moderator of 4 Krsna Clubs,and I make Krsna Conscious Web Sites,6 are online

Now!I Always use Srila Prabhupada's words,I never Change a Word,And I am

very Upset that the books Have been Changed,suppositly for Grammer,But I

know Srila Prabhupada said ,He didnt want a word Changed! I distrbute The

Unchanged Origanal Bhagavad Gita As it is,and the Krsna Pastimes

Books,unchanged,on my site for a donation to help with Printing Cost! Here

is the Address You can Get Them http://jayakesava108.tripod.com SO I believe

you must judge each devotee Independatly,and not merge ISKCON all

together!All I can do,is Show my Krsna Consciousness ,By my Behavior,and I

think You should judge the Same!I consider myself a Member of ISKCON,but I

Do, understand the way You feel,.But Know,Not all members condone ,What has

Happened,And That is Why,

I send Srila Prabhupada Lectures,So you can Hear Him,Yourself!

Hoping to Change alittle of Your Thinking,Your Servant,Jaya Kesava Dasa

 

-

" steve verges " <skuint

<krsnajoe

Friday, October 05, 2007 8:00 AM

RE: Todays Bhagavad- Gita Class As it is Ch 1

Text 26 Spoken By His Divine grace Srila Prabhupada in London 7-21-73

 

 

Even today, why are the remnants of Prahbupadas movement protecting people

who like to cover all kinds of criminal acts? I couldn & #39;t articulate

something foolish like saying ... prabhu ... the movement is run by a bunch

of homosexuals, why, because as a whole, homosexual society doesn & #39;t even

do half the petty crap the remaining governing body of Prabhupadas governing

body of the movement does. I have the carte blanch to say look man these

people arjuna wouldn & #39;t even question Krishna to kill, why, because these

people that dissected Prabhupadas movement are a bunch of fagets.

Could you imagine before the glorious battle that Krishna & Arjuna fought in

was interrupted by a legal treaty saying ... hey these two sides are purely

corporate therefore since we have so many lawsuits against us we will be

changing into dozens of corporate nutshell entities that semi signify we

were once the good guys possibly the bad guys. If you have a brain don & #39;t

blame the faggetry of your movement on Kali Yuga, it doesn & #39;t say

anything in the Vedic teachings that mutiny, piracy, I can & #39;t even

articulate all the slimey shit you people attempt to get away with by using

Prahbupadas name. I will say that if Krishna & Arjuna had a choice they

would say, no, you are devotees of your own sick mindsets, you have nothing

to do with us, sorry Prahbupada, since you left these people to attend to

what you started they have no real apparatus of being honest & as well as

they have lost lawsuit after lawsuit for everything from vicous murders,

drug

dealing, illegal arms possession, child molestation, brain washing etc, I

tell you Arjuna wouldn & #39;t even question killing everyone in this bogus

heap of shit movement. I & #39;m sure Prabhupada would give a kiritan while

Arjuna & Krishna did the job.

 

The funny thing is since there are all the name changes to try to hide from

lawsuits, what a sleaze bag that is as well as a huge slap in Prahbupadas

face, there is only what, three thousand devotees that are a part of the

& quot;every man for himself movement that is no longer ISKCON , so it would

be easy for Krishna & Arjuna to clean house. This whole debacle of what

Prahbupada hoped would never happen, happened. ISKCON is a corporate name

for a business pure & simple, now it & #39;s pretty much a Hindu

& quot;anything & quot; goes temple.

 

So how do I get you to stop sending me & quot;good things & quot; via this

bullshit bogus website? Prabhupada is the only thing worth mentioning but

with the fact people are lying a few inches away from his murti twenty

four/seven, I question even what people thought in front of the poor old man

when he was living.

 

That gentleman was in fact questioned by his devotee with the question being

& quot;Can I call you Prahbupada & quot;, that is very good for a devotee to

think that but all those fags since that & quot;one & quot; devotee thought of

his guru as & quot;Prabhupada & quot; while an entire shit house full of fags

acted with treason not even caring if they were tried & found guilty

Prahbupada would act as there hang man.

 

Prahbupada will not wait for any of these fags on a hellish planet to

forgive anyone, nor Krishna, they will say you belong there & you know what?

We aren & #39;t fucking with you, you discovered hell on your own through a

bunch of scoundrels.

 

If you could be so kind to have me removed from this fag site you would be

in service of a man, it shouldn & #39;t be so hard to serve man since you

spend so much time serving demons.

 

Do you know Muslim extremists admit what type of hellish deeds they commit?

How come ISKCON doesn & #39;t? I guess they are lower then extremist Muslims

when it comes to telling the truth for their wretched behavior.

 

Lessons learned from Gandhi says the only true Varna/color, is the color of

the picture you paint in life, it is not because of the robe you wear, the

color of the tilak you dip/dab on your forehead, an out of caste should not

be an outcast nor should an in caste be treated with precadent. Does it

surprise you that Gandhi was assasinated by a faget who hid under the guise

of some type of Vaisnava mafia? It & #39;s safe to say ISKCON has reverted

back to what Krishna & Arjuna fought against, The Buddha wept about,

Caitanya said was bogus, Gandhi said was racist, Prabhupada said was phoney,

& me pretty much just someone who reads these books agrees with all these

men that in an avant garde lexicon of word usage & articulation, this is a

ISKCON shit currently is being run by a bunch of fagets.

 

Are you a man of Krishna?

 

Respectfully, Mr. Verges

 

Jaya Kesava Dasa wrote:

>

> " Society

> Friendship and Love "

> 73/07/21 London, Bhagavad-gita

> 1.26 listen

> Pradyumna (leads chanting, etc.):

> tatrapasyat sthitan parthah pitrn atha

> pitamahan acaryan matulan bhratrn putran pautran sakhims

> tatha svasuran suhrdas caiva senayor ubhayor api [bg.

> 1.26]

> tan samiksya sa kaunteyah sarvan bandhun

> avasthitan krpaya parayavisto visidann idam abravit [bg.

> 1.27]

> Translation: " There Arjuna could see, within the midst of the

> armies of both parties, his fathers, grandfathers, teachers,

> maternal

> uncles, brothers, sons, grandsons, friends, and also his

> father-in-law and

> well-wishers -- all present there. When the son of Kunti, Arjuna,

> saw all

> these different grades of friends and relatives, he became

> overwhelmed

> with compassion and spoke thus. "

> Prabhupada: This is the problem. Now Arjuna is facing the

> problem. What is this problem? Suppose you bring all my friends, my

> relatives, my sons, grandsons, my father-in-law, brother-in-law,

> friends,

> my animals... Because there were soldiers, senayor ubhayor api,

> there were

> animals also. Horses, elephants. They are also within the

> membership.

> According to Vedic conception, the animals, they are also members of

> your

> family. Because they are giving service. Not that one section of the

> members of my family I give protection, and the other section, I

> take

> everything from them and then cut throat. This is not civilization.

> You

> keep your sons, wife, daughters, cows, dogs, they are animals,

> asses,

> domestic animals, horses, elephants. If you are rich, you can keep

> elephants also. It does not mean... Either family-wise or

> state-wise, it

> does not mean that you give protection to some members and cut

> throat of

> the others. Oh, how horrible it is. So all of them were present now.

> And

> the problem is that he has to kill them, Arjuna. It is fight, it is

> a

> family fight.

> So some of the family members on the other side, and some of the

> family members this side. So other side also, what are they?

> Tatrapasyat

> sthitan parthah pitrn atha pitamahan. Pitrn, teachers, and pitrn

> also.

> Pitrn means those who are on the status of father. And Bhismadeva

> was a

> grandfather, a real grandfather, pitamaha. He is on the other side.

> Dronacarya, he is on the other side, teacher. They had to be

> respected.

> Actually Arjuna did so. Before fighting with Dronacarya, he first of

> all

> throw one arrow on his lotus feet, obeisances. This is the

> etiquette. " My

> dear sir, you have taught me this fighting science, now it is being

> used

> against you, duty. So I offer my obeisances. " And Dronacarya also,

> threw

> another arrow, touching his head: " My dear boy, become blessed. "

> This is

> duty. How blessed? " By killing me. I know you will kill me, so I

> give you

> blessings that you kill me. " This is duty. The disciple is fighting,

> touching the feet of Dronacarya: " My dear sir, it is duty. Now we

> are face

> to face to fight. So give me your blessing. " This is one side. The

> other

> side, blessing, " Yes, you have my all blessings. "

> So this is the problem. This material world is problematic,

> especially when we have got these family relationships. " Society,

> friendship, and love, divinely bestowed upon man. " They say.

> (laughs) It

> is not divinely bestowed. It is not. It is entanglement. It is

> entanglement. Dehapatya. There is verse in the Second Canto of

> Srimad-Bhagavatam. Dehapatya. What is that verse?

> Dehapatya-kalatradi .

> Deha, first affection is with our body. " I am this Mr. Such and

> such. This

> is I am, this body. " I have got attraction for this body. Then the

> offsprings, the by-products of this body. Apatya. Apatya means

> children.

> And how this by-product is made? Kalatra, through wife. Stri. Stri

> means

> which expands. Vistara, expands. I am alone. I accept wife, stri,

> and with

> her cooperation I expand. So one who helps me to expand, that is

> called

> stri. Every Sanskrit word has got meaning. Why woman is called stri?

> Because she helps, expanding myself. How expanding?

> Dehapatya-kalatradi su

> [sB 2.1.4]. I get my children. First of all I was affectionate to my

> body.

> Then, as soon as I get a wife, I become affectionate to her. Then,

> as soon

> as I get children, I become affectionate to children. In this way I

> expand

> my affection for this material world. This material world,

> attachment. It

> is not required. It is a foreign thing. This material body is

> foreign. I

> am spiritual. I am spiritual, aham brahmasmi. But because I wanted

> to lord

> it over the material nature, Krsna has given me this body.

> Daiva-netrena.

> He is giving you body. He is giving the body of Brahma, He is giving

> you

> the body of ant. As you desire. As you desire. If you want the body

> of a

> tiger, Krsna will give you. If you want the body of a hog, He will

> give

> you. If you want the body of Brahma, He will give you. If you want

> the

> body of a demigod, He will give you. If you want the body of

> American, He

> will give you. Englishman, He will give you. Indian, He will give

> you.

> That is Krsna. He is so kind. Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva

> bhajamy aham [bg. 4.11]. Krsna is very kind. Just like a son

> disobedient

> to the father, but he wants to enjoy something. Still, father giving

> him,

> " All right, you take money, and enjoy. " Father is so kind. " You

> become

> free. Whatever you like, you can do. You take some money. " This is

> our

> concession.

> This material life is a concession to us, given by God, for

> gratifying our senses. This is material life. Krsna does not want

> that you

> become entangled in this material world. That He doesn't want. Why

> He

> should want? Krsna... Just like you produce your sons, children.

> Why? To

> remain in household life, enjoy in the company of wife, children,

> friends.

> This is... One can understand. Why I take so much responsibility of

> family? I was alone. Why I get married? Why I beget children? Why I

> make

> friends? Because I want to enjoy. So Krsna is also a person. Nityo

> nityanam cetanas cetananam (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13). He has produced

> so

> many children, these living entities. Why? To enjoy along with them.

> Just

> try to understand the psychology. Yato va imani bhutani jayante,

> janmady

> asya yatah [sB 1.1.1]. Where this idea came from, that " I shall be

> happy

> within society, friendship and love, children? " Wherefrom this idea

> came?

> Where is the origin? The origin is there in Krsna. Janmady asya

> yatah [sB

> 1.1.1]. Janmady asya yatah. The origin of love. Just like Krsna is

> loving

> Radharani. So the loving idea came from Krsna. Anything that is

> within our

> experience, that is in Krsna. So Krsna cannot be impersonal. That is

> nonsense. Krsna is exactly a person like me, you. But the difference

> is

> that He's very, very, unlimitedly powerful. I am limited. This is

> the

> difference. So Krsna also wants that to live with His family. Our

> Krsna

> consciousness movement is just to train ourselves again to enter

> into the

> family of Krsna. This is our movement. With these families, the

> so-called

> families, we are suffering. We are suffering. But this family idea

> is

> there this. That is perfect in Krsna, with Krsna. The family idea,

> wherefrom family idea comes without it is being situated in Krsna?

> Because

> nothing can be visible without being in Krsna. He is the origin.

> Janmady

> asya yatah [sB 1.1.1]. Aham sarvasya prabhavah: [bg. 10.8] " I am the

> origin of everything. "

> So whatever we are seeing in this material world, the origin is

> in Krsna. But here it is perverted. That is the only difference.

> Just like

> a tree. The original tree is standing erect. But when you see the

> perverted reflection of the tree, everything is topsy-turvied. The

> upside

> has gone downside. You have seen the reflection of the tree. So the

> upside, downside. When the upside of the tree becomes downside, that

> is

> called perverted reflection. So this material world is perverted

> reflection of the spiritual world. It is false in this sense because

> it is

> reflection. Otherwise, exactly the same things are there in the

> spiritual

> world. Urdhva-mulam adhah-sakham asvattham prahur avyayam [bg.

> 15.1].

> There is. In the Bhagavad-gita you will find in the Fifteenth

> Chapter.

> Urdhva-mulam. Here, this material world, the origin -- mulam means

> root --

> is upside, upside. Because it is reflection. This tree is erect, and

> this

> is reflection. So the root has gone upside. So here is the problem.

> Because we are attached to our this so-called family, society,

> friendship

> and love... When Arjuna was faced, then he became krpaya parayavisto

> visidann idam abravit. " How it is possible, Krsna, that I have to

> kill the

> other side, my fathers, my father-in-law, my grandfather, my sons,

> my

> grandsons, my brother, my so many friends? " So it is natural. Krpaya

> paraya avistah. He becomes overwhelmed with compassion. Krpaya

> parayavisto

> visidan. Very morosely. " Oh, Krsna, I will have to fight with them.

> I will

> have to kill them. " Why this consciousness came? The other side

> also,

> Duryodhana, why he did not think in that way? Why Arjuna is

> thinking?

> Because he is devotee. That is the difference. A devotee thinks like

> that.

> A devotee does not like to kill anyone, even an ant. Why he should

> be

> encouraged to kill his friends? A devotee is like that. Yasyasti

> bhaktir

> bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunais tatra samasate surah. This is the

> result

> of devotional life. Arjuna was insulted. Arjuna was taken away all

> his

> belongings. Arjuna was banished for thirteen years. His wife was

> insulted.

> So many atrocities was done to him. Still, when the question of

> killing

> came, he was not very happy: " No. " This is Vaisnava. This is

> Vaisnava. He

> is ready to excuse even the greatest enemy. But Krsna does not want.

> If

> you insult His devotee, the devotee may excuse, but Krsna will not

> excuse.

> This is Krsna's position. Therefore be careful to insult a devotee.

> A

> devotee may excuse you. But Krsna will not excuse you. Krsna is so

> strict.

> He cannot tolerate any insult to His devotee. Therefore this

> arrangement

> of fighting. Arjuna wanted, " No, let them be excused. " Krsna wanted,

> " No,

> you must fight. You must kill them. " This is the position. So he is

> within

> the dilemma. Krsna is insisting that " You must fight and kill them, "

> but

> he is thinking, " How shall I kill my kinsmen? " This is the problem.

> Therefore, tan samiksya sa kaunteyah sarvan bandhun avasthitan. All

> friends are there. Krpaya parayavisto visidann idam abravit. So this

> is

> one side, that if you want to please Krsna, then you have to be

> prepared

> for killing your so-called relatives. If you want Krsna. If you want

> to

> please Krsna.

> So this whole Vedic civilization is made just to train how you

> can be detached from this so-called family affection. This is Vedic

> training. First of all brahmacari. Brahmacari means to lead the life

> of

> austerity. A brahmacari is supposed to live to serve the spiritual

> master

> at his home, and he has to work just like a menial. He may be a

> king's son

> or a very great brahmana's son, but as soon as he agrees to live

> with the

> spiritual master, he has to live just like a menial servant.

> Whatever the

> spiritual master will order, he has to do it. This is brahmacari.

> And they

> will gladly do, because they are children.

> Brahmacari life begins from five years. So you ask any child do

> anything, he will do. They are learned. They are given education,

> " Go from

> door to door, house to house, and bring some alms. " So brahmacari

> means

> the neighborhood, their sons. So when the brahmacari goes for

> begging,

> " Mother, give me something, alms, " so immediately, some rice, some

> dahl,

> some atta, is given, or some vegetables, sometimes some money. So

> they

> bring everything to the spiritual master and it becomes the property

> of

> the spiritual master. Because he has begged, it is not his property.

> Sarvasvam guru-veditam( ?). Everything is guru's property. So much

> so that

> after cooking everything, the spiritual master will call, " My dear

> boys,

> come on. Take prasadam. " But if he forgets to call somebody, he will

> not

> touch. He will not touch. This is brahmacari. " Oh, spiritual master

> has

> not called me; so I will fast. " (laughter) He begged the rice and

> vegetables and atta and dahl. It is cooked. But when it is cooked,

> that is

> also spiritual master's property. If the spiritual master does not

> ask him

> to take, he cannot take. He cannot touch. This is brahmacari life.

> So

> therefore the first training is given, to become austere, tolerate,

> how to

> tolerate, how to call other women as " mother. " He is learning from

> the

> beginning, a small child. He is trained up to call any woman, even

> of his

> own age, not " sister, " -- " mother. " This is the training. Matrvat

> para-daresu. This is education. Matrvat para-daresu. Canakya

> Pandita, the

> great politician, has given the definition of a learned scholar. Who

> is

> learned scholar? He has given the definition. What is this? Matrvat

> para-daresu. To see every woman except his wife as mother. This is

> education. This is education, perfection of education, when you can

> see

> all women except your wife as mother. This is education. Matrvat

> para-daresu para-dravyesu lostravat. And others' property? Just like

> garbage in the street. Nobody is interested in the garbage. You

> throw.

> That is education. And atmavat sarva-bhutesu. And thinking all

> living

> entities as your own self. If you feel pains and pleasure by

> something,

> you could not afflict the pains to others. If your throat is cut, if

> your

> head is cut, you feel so much pain, how you can cut the head of

> another

> animal? This is education. Samah sarvesu-bhutesu. This is education,

> three

> things. This is the test of education.

> matrvat para-daresu para-dravyesu

> lostravat atmavat sarva-bhutesu yah pasyati sa panditah

> Where is? Where is that pandita? There is no such thing

> now.

> So this problem, attachment for this material world, gradually we

> have to cut it. That is the Vedic civilization. If you want to go

> back to

> home, back to Godhead, then at the same time, if you remain attached

> to

> this material world, so-called society, friendship and love, then it

> is

> not possible. So long you will have a pinch of attraction with this

> material world, there is no possibility of being transferred to the

> spiritual world. This is the position. Therefore by training, by

> education, we have to become detached. Detached, this society,

> friendship

> and love. We have to understand the falsity of this so-called

> society,

> friendship and love. Because we are being carried away by the waves

> of

> maya. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has sung, mayar bose, jaccho bhese,

> Khaccho

> habudubu bhai. Just like we see sometimes in rainy season, so many

> plants

> and creepers and vegetables and so many other things are floating in

> the

> river, going. Similarly, we also, all floating in the waves of maya.

> Mayar

> bose, jaccho bhese, khaccho habudubu. Sometimes drowned, sometimes

> on the

> surface, sometimes on the other shore, sometimes on this shore. This

> is

> going on. So long we are in this material world, we are being tossed

> by

> different currents, and sometimes I am here as the master of some

> kingdom,

> and sometimes I am dog of somebody else. This is my position. The

> same

> thing. Very good example, that we are being carried away by the

> waves of

> maya. Sometimes we are gathering together. So many straws and

> vegetables,

> they gather together. And sometimes the same vegetables and straws

> are

> thrown asunder. One is there, one is here. So here also, we assemble

> here

> as society, friendship and love exactly like that. In the waves of

> maya.

> Then nobody is your father, nobody is your mother, nobody is your

> sister,

> nobody. It is simply mayic, illusory combination. Illusory

> combination,

> temporary combination. And we are so much attached to this

> combination

> that we are refusing to go back to home, back to Godhead. This is

> our

> position.

> Therefore we have to meet them in the battlefield of Kuruksetra,

> and if required, we have to kill them and execute the order of

> Krsna. This

> is our position. If we are thinking that " In this material existence

> I

> shall be safe, assisted by my society, friendship, love, country,

> and

> politics and sociology, " " No, no, sir, it is not possible. " It is

> not

> possible. You have to take care of yourself. Your so-called society,

> friendship, love, country, nation, and this, never will be able to

> help

> you. Because you are under the clutches of maya. Daivi hy esa

> gunamayi

> mama maya duratyaya [bg. 7.14].

> prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani

> sarvasah ahankara-vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate [bg.

> 3.27]

> You are under the clutches of maya. you have no independence.

> Neither anyone has got any independence to save you. That is not

> possible.

> The same example as I gave sometimes, that you learn how to drive

> aeroplane. So you go high in the sky. But if you are in danger, no

> other

> aeroplane can help you. You are finished. Therefore you must be a

> very

> careful pilot to take care of yourself. Similarly, in this material

> world

> everyone individually has to take care of himself. How he can be

> saved

> from the clutches of maya. That is Krsna consciousness movement. A

> teacher

> can give you hints. The acarya can give you hints that " You can be

> saved

> in this way. " But the execution of the duties, that is in your hand.

> If

> you perform the spiritual duties rightly, then you are saved.

> Otherwise,

> even acarya gives you instruction, if you don't follow, so how he

> can save

> you? He can save you by instruction, by his mercy, as much as

> possible.

> But you have to take it in your hands seriously.

> So this problem is... Arjuna is facing now this problem. That is

> general problem. Dehapatya-kalatradi su. Dehapatya. Deha means this

> body.

> Apatya means children. Kalatra means wife. Dehapatya-kalatradi sv

> atma-sainyesv asatsv api [sB 2.1.4]. We are thinking that " We shall

> be

> protected by my these soldiers. I have got my sons, grandsons, my

> grandfather, my father-in-law, my brother-in-law, my so many

> society,

> friendship and love. " Everyone is thinking like that. " My nation, my

> community, my philosophy, my politics. No. Nothing can save you.

> Dehapatya-kalatradi su asatsu api. They are all temporary. They come

> and

> go. Asatsu api. Pramatto tasya nidhanam pasyann api na pasyati. One

> who is

> too much attached to this society, friendship and love, he is

> pramatta.

> Pramatta means crazy, madman. Pasyann api na, tasya nidhanam. He

> does not

> see. Although he is seeing that " My father has died. When I was a

> child,

> my father was giving me protection. Now my father has gone away. Who

> is

> giving me protection? Is my father alive to give me protection? Who

> is

> giving me protection? My mother was giving me protection. Now who is

> giving me protection? I was in family, my sons, my daughters, my

> wife, but

> I left them. Now who is giving me protection? " And actually Krsna

> gives

> you protection always. Not your society, friendship and love. They

> will be

> finished. As your father is finished, as your grandfather is

> finished,

> similarly, your sons, grandsons, will be finished. None of them will

> be

> able to give you protection. Only Krsna will be giving you

> protection.

> Therefore you surrender to Krsna. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam

> saranam vraja, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksa... [bg. 18.66]. " I

> shall

> give you protection. " Kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati:

> [bg.

> 9.31] " My devotee is never vanquished. " So the best thing is to take

> to

> Krsna consciousness, fully surrender unto Him, and you will be

> protected.

> Otherwise, there is no other way of being protected. We'll be

> carried away

> by the waves of maya. This is the position.

> Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. (end)

>

> Please Look at Wonders of Krsna's Home Page where you can get a

> Origanal Bhagavad -Gita As it is, Unchanged ,Translated by Srila

> Prabhupada,Just for the cost of Printing,as a Donation,So I can Get

> more

> Gitas to distribute http://jayakesava10 8.tripod. com

> Thank you for Reading

> or listening,Your Servant.-Jaya Kesava Dasa

> H OM E

> © 2001 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International. Used with

> permission.

>

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

I have carefully read this discussion, and without further delay I

would request the person who originated it, to end this discussion,

because it draws us away from practicing Krishna Consciousness.

Personally I felt that Mr Verges has attacked ISKCON from a typical

moral highground which is usual for christians to adopt because they

love to put Hindus and Muslims down, but when faced with ISKCON, they

are confused, because ISKCON is at a level above religions, so he found

the chink in the armor and began to attack furiously.Such people, who

always find faults, are going to remain entangled in those faults

themselves.

 

If you get the drift of what I mean, just remain attached to Krishna,

and ignore these people who want you to fall down to their level. Just

chant enough to rise above these petty squabbles, and keep yourself

free from criticism, fault finding etc. Wishing you happy times ahead.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sanjeev,Please Accept my Humble Obiesances!,Yes I aggree,But I had to Answer To save This Soul,and Bring Him to Understand,Not All Devotees are like he said,Meaning Myself!If You read His reply,You would Understand!I would Like To Use Your Painting Of the Battlefeild Of Kurusetra!I am Posting A Srila Prabhupada Lecture on the Gita,And I am Praying You Agree!I am Posting Now So i cannot wait for an answer,I have to Pray You aggree,Your Humble Servant

Jaya Kesava Dasa

 

-

sanjeev

Saturday, October 06, 2007 8:39 PM

Re: Todays Bhagavad- Gita Class As it is Ch 1 Text 26 Spoken By His Divine grace Srila Prabhupada in London 7-21-73

 

 

I have carefully read this discussion, and without further delay I would request the person who originated it, to end this discussion, because it draws us away from practicing Krishna Consciousness. Personally I felt that Mr Verges has attacked ISKCON from a typical moral highground which is usual for christians to adopt because they love to put Hindus and Muslims down, but when faced with ISKCON, they are confused, because ISKCON is at a level above religions, so he found the chink in the armor and began to attack furiously.Such people, who always find faults, are going to remain entangled in those faults themselves.If you get the drift of what I mean, just remain attached to Krishna, and ignore these people who want you to fall down to their level. Just chant enough to rise above these petty squabbles, and keep yourself free from criticism, fault finding etc. Wishing you happy times ahead.