Guest guest Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Dear Friends , Some modern Hindu-reformers believe that , the Abrahmaic religions are worshipping just another form of Lord Krishna called the " Brahma-Jyoti " . However , certain fundamental aspects of the Abrahamic dogma are ignored by these reformers . Brahma-Jyothi (Nirguna Brahman) is another form of Krishna attained by great Jnana-Yogis . But it is not for the taking of those killers of Brahmanas , Cows and innocent women and children . It is also inaccessible to those who exploit people in the name of religion . Bhavishya-purana predicts about Abrahamic Religions . Bhavisya purana states about the events that would happen in future . It says that , the great king Shalivahana will once meet a particular scholar in Himalayas . Replying to the king's question , the scholar will say " I have come from the land of `Mlechas' (meat eaters) to learn about Yogic practices . And I intend to preach about the greatness of God's name to the meat eaters " . Shalivahana will reply " You can preach that philosophy in the land of "Mlechas" ( area beyond Sind) . ( But keep away from the abode of Vedas, Bhaarata ) . Any form of Lord Krishna doesn't permit killing of Brahmanas and Cows We can see that , fundamentally the Abrahamic religions are totally opposite Lord Krishna's philosophy . They offer materialistic benefits to followers , both in this world and in heaven . They encourage lust . Even many of it's master-preachers are icons of lust violence . They reject every thing foreign to own religion . And ask for sustained war against the unbelievers (Vedic followers) . Also, it says cheating the Vedic follower is a noble service . They encourages slaughter of cows and beef eating among followers . They brand Brahmanas as evil and ask for their conversion and if it fails total destruction . Lord Krishna Alerts about Such dangers in His parting discourse In analyzing religious principles one must consider purity and impurity. Similarly, in one's ordinary dealings one must distinguish between good and bad, and to insure one's physical survival one must recognize that which is auspicious and inauspicious. I have revealed this way of life for those bearing the burden of mundane religious principles . Although all material bodies are composed of the same five elements and are thus equal, the Vedic literatures conceive of different names and forms in relation to such bodies so that the living entities may achieve their goal of life . In order to restrict materialistic activities, I have established that which is proper and improper among all material things, including time, space and all physical objects. 5. Among places, those bereft of the spotted antelope, those devoid of devotion to the Brahmanas, those possessing spotted antelopes but bereft of respectable men, provinces like Kikata and places where cleanliness and purificatory rites are neglected, where meat-eaters are prominent or where the earth is barren, are all considered to be contaminated lands . That time which impedes the performance of one's duty is considered impure. A mantra is purified when chanted with proper knowledge, and one's work is purified when offered to Me . Thus by purification of the place, time, substance, doer, mantras and work, one becomes religious, and by negligence of these six items one is considered irreligious. Sometimes piety becomes sin, and sometimes what is ordinarily sin becomes piety on the strength of Vedic injunctions . Such special rules in effect eradicate the clear distinction between piety and sin. By refraining from a particular sinful or materialistic activity, one becomes freed from its bondage. Such renunciation is the basis of religious and auspicious life for human beings and drives away all suffering, illusion and fear. One who accepts material sense objects as desirable certainly becomes attached to them. From such attachment lust arises, and this lust creates quarrel among men . Conclusion Although one can find different paths in Hinduism , none is contradictory to the Vedas . Slaughter of cows , Killing of unbelievers, beef eating , etc are not permitted anywhere . One has no right to harm any living or non-living being . Hinduism is based on the theory of reincarnation . According to it , a person is born as Mlecha due to his bad deeds in previous births . However, even a Mlecha can transcend his in-born attributes and become a Vedic follower by taking total shelter in Sri Krishna and living according to the Vedas . ( Haridasa Takur is a fine example for this) . Lord Caitanya was so perfect in His selection of disciples that not even a single one failed in contributing to Vedic growth . Those who oppose the Vedas are living in an illusionary world . They are deluded by Lord Krishna's `maya' ( illusionary potency ) . God is kind to every being including the Mlechas . He has mercifully provided them certain very easy religious practices like that of Abrahamic religions to save them from total deterioration . However, it is not for the spiritual practising of Krishna-devotees . Meat is nourishing to a dog , but it is a killer if eaten by a cow . Regards, Narayana , "sanjeev" <punjsanjeev wrote:>> If a Hindu becomes contaminated by association with a muslim then he > is a weak Hindu. Only those truly aware of Krishna in each and every > being will remain unaffected by such association. Weak people will > automatically be contaminated, even without associating with Mlechhas.> > Religiousity is the outwardly perceptible symptom of spirituality.> There is a nice example to show the distinction between religiosity > and spirituality--that is, real religion. > > It is the story about a great saintly person by the name of Haridas > Thakur. Born in a Mohammedan family, Haridas Thakur lived in the > fifteenth century in India. He was a follower of Lord Chaitanya > Mahaprabhu Who taught him the power of the Holy Names of God. He was > declared by Lord Chaitanya to be "Nama Acharya"--spiritual master of > the Holy Names. Wherever he went, he was chanting, "Gopala, Govinda, > Rama, Krishna, Haribol, Haribol." And he would be getting all kinds > of crowds singing and chanting with him. In this way, Haridas Thakur > influenced many, many people to hear and chant the Names of God. He > was not claiming he was Hindu; he was not claiming he was Muslim. And > yet, he was truly a spiritual person directly influencing people in > their spiritual life by giving them the Names of God. > > So this group has maintained its quality by opening its doors to > everyone. As you have noticed, we are not supressing anyone's > opinions but allowing a dialogue to continue, otherwise the group > simply gets boring and passive.> > I personally thank Narayana Dasa Prabhu to have come forward and > place his opinions boldly.However if the mention of those verses in > the forwarded message has offended anyone, please let me know > directly, we can delete that message and put an end to the arguments.> > > , "narayana_das77" > narayana_das77@ wrote:> >> > > > Dear Friends ,> > > > Any devotional Forum like this "-group" which> > discuss about Lord Krishna is like a Mandir . Recitation of> > "Mlecha-verses" is forbidden in a Mandir . Because of the> > desire to attract non-Hindus, if somebody resorts to the recitation > of> > "Mlecha-verses " in any form , it is an abuse against Hinduism (> > Eternal way of living according to the Vedas).> > > > Hidden Agenda of Mlechas> > > > Often the born Asuras ( demons) following the anti-Vedic> > `Mlecha-religions' , join the Hindu discussions uninvited, just> > for the purpose of forcing their hidden agenda ( rejection of > Deity> > worship and Vedic faith) in a step-by-step manner . At first , the> > disguised `Mlecha' pretends to praise the "liberal"> > nature of the " all-accepting " Hinduism . Next, they distort the> > Vedic scriptures and quote "opposing verses" from own> > Mlecha-books to confuse the Hindus . Finally, they declare that , > true> > God has forbidden Deity worship and therefore it is time for the> > unbelievers (Hindus) to convert to the " true religion " (> > Abrahamic religion) . The Mlecha-books permit it's followers to use> > any type of treachery against the unbelievers . According to it ,> > truthfulness is meant only for the dealings within own religion . > The> > unbelievers are to be converted at any cost ; and if it is not > possible> > confusion to be created among them to divide and conquer .> > > > Vedas , the Literary form of Lord Krishna> > > > The Vedas are the literary forms of Lord Krishna . Divinities > like> > Ramanujacharya and Lord Chaitanya were fully aware of the dangers > of > > the "Mlecha- agenda" . Therefore, they always adhered to the> > Vedas in their teachings and never quoted from "Mlecha books " .> > When certain pious men born in the "Mlecha religions sought the> > spiritual guidance of these Acharyas , they were duly converted into> > Vedic followers .> > > > Greed of some Modern Hindu Organizations> > > > In this age of Kali , many Hindus are systematically corrupted by> > Mlecha-association' . They misinterpret even Gita clauses like> > 18.66 to blaspheme that Lord Krishna asked to give up Vedas .> > > > None has the authority to change the Vedas . Bhagavad Gita is the> > epitome of Vedas. Lord Krishna has never ever spoken a single word> > against the Vedas . In fact , in His Gita advice , the Supreme Lord> > always quotes from the teachings of Rishis ( who were initially > created> > and entrusted by the Lord Himself to propagate Vedic dharma ) .> > > > Unlike the single book based Abrahamic religions , there is Zero > scope> > for "opportunism" in Vedic Sanatana Dharma . Any person having> > 100% faith in the Vedas is a Hindu whereas the one who rejects it > and> > blasphme is a `Mlecha '.> > > > Unfortunately , certain organizations that originated for the> > propagation of Vedic faith , gradually got carried away by > materialism .> > They selfishly amended the Vedic regulations to attain quick > success .> > They involuntarily mixed-up the Vedic scriptures with> > "Mlecha-books" and even employed unqualified Mlecha men and> > women as Sannyasins and Pujaris . To them destination justifies the> > path . Ultimately , such Organizations have fallen victim to the> > internal contradictions thereby distancing from the grace of Lord> > Krishna.> > > > Conclusion> > > > Lord Krishna says in Gita 16. 23-24 & 18.67 " He who discards the> > rules and regulations of Vedic scriptures and acts in an arbitrary > way> > according to his own will, attains neither perfection nor happiness > nor> > the supreme destination. Therefore, let the Vedic scripture be your> > authority in determining what should be done and what should not be> > done. You should perform your duty following the scriptural > injunction .> > This confidential knowledge (Gita) should never be spoken by you to > one> > who is devoid of austerity, who is without devotion, who does not > desire> > to listen, or is envious of Me " .> > > > Hinduism is absoultely self reliant to explain it's philosophy . > And it> > does not require external support from Abrahamic books to prove the> > relevance of Lord Krishna the God of Gods .> > > > May the merciful Lord Krishna bless you all to adhere to the Vedas > at> > all times without fail !!!> > > > Regards,> > > > Narayana> > > > > > --> > , "sanjeev" <punjsanjeev@>> > wrote:> > >> > > In my humble opinion, the only lesson we can learn from this > message> > > is that even the muslims indirectly worship Krishna, because > Krishna> > > is the ONE LORD of all Beings. The writer of this article Sri > Krishna> > > Hari Das> > > Dr Satish Gosain MBBS DNB i Med> > > Congregational Preacher, ISKCON, Delhi.> > > 098-913-86194, 2512-5595, 2512-8754> > >> > > can be contacted and asked what he means. What has fascinated me > is> > > that even the muslims do believe that Allah has a face, I don't > think> > > this is an attempt to convert, but to show the fact that there is> > > only one authority over all beings, Lord Krishna. It all depends > on> > how people will interpret it, because each would have a different> > opinion. I disagree that Hinduism has been abused here, not at all,> > Hinduism has not been mentioned, the author has simply tried to say > that> > Allah has a form,which the muslims also do not know because the > Prophet> > Mohammed was dazzled by the Brahmjyoti itself and could not bear to > see> > the form that was behind the light. We as devotees of Krishna > however> > know that this form is Lord Krishna Himself, because it is > described by> > Lord Krishna that> > >> > > na tad bhasayate suryo> > > na sasanko na pavakah> > > yad gatva na nivartante> > > tad dhama paramam mama> > >> > > That supreme abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, > nor by> > fire or electricity. Those who reach it never return to this > material> > world.> > >> > > PURPORT> > >> > > The spiritual world, the abode of the Supreme Personality of > Godhead,> > Krsna -- which is known as Krsnaloka, Goloka Vrndavana -- is > described> > here. In the spiritual sky there is no need of sunshine, moonshine, > fire> > or electricity, because all the planets are self-luminous. We have > only> > one planet in this universe, the sun, which is self-luminous, but > all> > the planets in the spiritual sky are self-luminous. The shining> > effulgence of all those planets (called Vaikunthas) constitutes the> > shining sky known as the brahmajyoti. Actually, the effulgence is> > emanating from the planet of Krsna, Goloka Vrndavana. - thus ends > the> > purport by AC Bhaktivedanta Srila Prabhupada.> > >> > > Thus what Prophet Mohammed saw was that effulgence of light > emanating> > from KrishnaLoka, perhaps. This is my interpretation, I humbly state> > that I am not trying to defend the writer, but to see things from > his> > viewpoint. For a devotee who sees Krishna in every being, thare can > be> > no other lesson to learn.> > >> > >> > >> > > , "narayana_das77"> > > narayana_das77@ wrote:> > > >> > > > DEAR FRIENDS,> > > >> > > > WHAT MORAL LESSON DO WE LEARN FROM THIS RUBBISH MESSAGE ? . > SHOULD> > > > WE BREAK THE TEMPLES AND SLAUGHTER INNOCENT MILLIONS LIKE THE> > > > FANATIC MUSLIM-TYRANTS OF YESTERYEARS . ONE CAN'T EAT POISON> > > > WITHOUT A TINGE OF SWEET . CAITANYA'S NAME IS MENITONED HERE TO> > > > BULLY THE READERS . AUTHOR'S REAL INTENTION IS TO ABUSE HINDUISM> > > AND> > > > PROMOTE CONVERSION .> > > >> > > > Rgds,> > > >> > > > NARAYANA> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 Dear Prabhuji, Brahmajoti is not separate from Krishna. It is attained only after great Tapasya. Our great saints have proved that. I agree with you. You have rightly said that the killers of brahmanas and killers of cows etc are not able to access Brahmajyoti. Accordingly, such people do come into that category because they have not given up cow killing. I have lived for eight years in an Islamic country. You may be surprised to hear this that today there are Hari Bhaktas in these countries.H H Sri Jayapataka Swami has done some excellent work in these countries.There is a Yatra in Dubai, another Yatra in Sharjah. Every year there is a congregational chanting of Sri Vishnu Sahasranaam, organised in a school. These congregations are gathering up those who have been living in these regions. It is the mercy of Krishna as ordained by the Lord himself in the form of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and the grace of Srila Prabhupada and his unflinching tireless disciples, that Krishna Consciousness has spread even to these regions which were once upon a time known as Pataalas.Now Sharjah is called Damodardesh by the devotees here. We have kirtans and Gita reading sessions. There is even a temple of SRINATHJI in Dubai. Those hapless creatures whom you call Mlechhas are existing by the grace of the Brahmajyoti, and some of them are advancing slowly. I have sen some vegetarian muslims too.People living here are in situations created by their own past Karma and their advancement is slow. Surrendering to krishna speeds up advancement to the fastest level. By grace of a devotee one can reach the Lotus Feet of Krishna and by Krishna's mecy one can be liberated from material conditioned life. Chant Harinaam always...give up seeking results and surrender to Krishna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2007 Report Share Posted October 10, 2007 , " narayana_das77 " <narayana_das77 wrote: Hare Krsna, This is all nonsense. Srila Prabhupada always has said it does not matter if one is Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jew, or Muslim. It is all about Love of God. Some of the teachings are purer than others because they are in different modes of nature. Lord Caitanya is so Merciful that He can show Himself in any teachings, and I mean any. It does not matter if it is mleccha or not, since most people are not so renunciated they do not have to wonder if the teachings they are learning from are so pure or not. Study all teachings and chant Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. Learn to see Krsna everywhere and not just in ISKCON teachings or just in India. Lord Krsna is everywhere, He is so accepting of where we all are. If we bother to just get to Know Him He will reveal so much! He does not care so much about where we are or what we are doing it is about if we truly do Love Him. Actually we all do but a lot of us are not aware of it. We are looking for Lord Krsna everywhere. I was raised a Christian and I later got into Magick and my interest in Magick got me into finding out about Lord Nrshimhadeva and Lord Krsna (same person). Since He is everywhere if we have the desire to see Him He will reveal Himself to us in whatever tradition is best for us and it is not always the same as everyone elses. That is fine. It is not supposed to be that way in this Kaliyuga Age anyway. Why does this matter so much anyway, is'nt all of this Puritanism the problem? Stop it! Haribol, Bhakta Aaron > Dear Friends , > > Some modern Hindu-reformers believe that , the Abrahmaic religions are > worshipping just another form of Lord Krishna called the " > Brahma-Jyoti " . However , certain fundamental aspects of the > Abrahamic dogma are ignored by these reformers . > > Brahma-Jyothi (Nirguna Brahman) is another form of Krishna attained by > great Jnana-Yogis . But it is not for the taking of those killers of > Brahmanas , Cows and innocent women and children . It is also > inaccessible to those who exploit people in the name of religion . > > Bhavishya-purana predicts about Abrahamic Religions . > > Bhavisya purana states about the events that would happen in future . > It says that , the great king Shalivahana will once meet a particular > scholar in Himalayas . Replying to the king's question , the scholar > will say " I have come from the land of `Mlechas' (meat > eaters) to learn about Yogic practices . And I intend to preach about > the greatness of God's name to the meat eaters " . > > Shalivahana will reply " You can preach that philosophy in the land > of " Mlechas " ( area beyond Sind) . ( But keep away from the > abode of Vedas, Bhaarata ) . > > Any form of Lord Krishna doesn't permit killing of Brahmanas and > Cows > > We can see that , fundamentally the Abrahamic religions are totally > opposite Lord Krishna's philosophy . > > * They offer materialistic benefits to followers , both in this > world and in heaven . > * They encourage lust . Even many of it's master-preachers are > icons of lust violence . > * They reject every thing foreign to own religion . And ask for > sustained war against the unbelievers (Vedic followers) . Also, it says > cheating the Vedic follower is a noble service . > * They encourages slaughter of cows and beef eating among followers > . > * They brand Brahmanas as evil and ask for their conversion and if > it fails total destruction . > > Lord Krishna Alerts about Such dangers in His parting discourse > > 1. In analyzing religious principles one must consider purity and > impurity. Similarly, in one's ordinary dealings one must distinguish > between good and bad, and to insure one's physical survival one must > recognize that which is auspicious and inauspicious. > 2. I have revealed this way of life for those bearing the burden of > mundane religious principles . > 3. Although all material bodies are composed of the same five > elements and are thus equal, the Vedic literatures conceive of different > names and forms in relation to such bodies so that the living entities > may achieve their goal of life . > 4. In order to restrict materialistic activities, I have established > that which is proper and improper among all material things, including > time, space and all physical objects. > > 5. Among places, those bereft of the spotted antelope, those devoid > of devotion to the Brahmanas, those possessing spotted antelopes but > bereft of respectable men, provinces like Kikata and places where > cleanliness and purificatory rites are neglected, where meat- eaters are > prominent or where the earth is barren, are all considered to be > contaminated lands . > > 1. That time which impedes the performance of one's duty is > considered impure. > 2. A mantra is purified when chanted with proper knowledge, and > one's work is purified when offered to Me . Thus by purification of > the place, time, substance, doer, mantras and work, one becomes > religious, and by negligence of these six items one is considered > irreligious. > 3. Sometimes piety becomes sin, and sometimes what is ordinarily sin > becomes piety on the strength of Vedic injunctions . Such special rules > in effect eradicate the clear distinction between piety and sin. > 4. By refraining from a particular sinful or materialistic activity, > one becomes freed from its bondage. Such renunciation is the basis of > religious and auspicious life for human beings and drives away all > suffering, illusion and fear. > 5. One who accepts material sense objects as desirable certainly > becomes attached to them. From such attachment lust arises, and this > lust creates quarrel among men . > > Conclusion > > 1. Although one can find different paths in Hinduism , none is > contradictory to the Vedas . Slaughter of cows , Killing of unbelievers, > beef eating , etc are not permitted anywhere . > 2. One has no right to harm any living or non-living being . > 3. Hinduism is based on the theory of reincarnation . According to it > , a person is born as Mlecha due to his bad deeds in previous births . > However, even a Mlecha can transcend his in-born attributes and become a > Vedic follower by taking total shelter in Sri Krishna and living > according to the Vedas . ( Haridasa Takur is a fine example for this) > . Lord Caitanya was so perfect in His selection of disciples that not > even a single one failed in contributing to Vedic growth . > 4. Those who oppose the Vedas are living in an illusionary world . > They are deluded by Lord Krishna's `maya' ( illusionary > potency ) . > 5. God is kind to every being including the Mlechas . He has > mercifully provided them certain very easy religious practices like > that of Abrahamic religions to save them from total deterioration . > However, it is not for the spiritual practising of Krishna- devotees . > Meat is nourishing to a dog , but it is a killer if eaten by a cow . > > Regards, > > Narayana > > > > , " sanjeev " <punjsanjeev@> > wrote: > > > > If a Hindu becomes contaminated by association with a muslim then he > > is a weak Hindu. Only those truly aware of Krishna in each and every > > being will remain unaffected by such association. Weak people will > > automatically be contaminated, even without associating with Mlechhas. > > > > Religiousity is the outwardly perceptible symptom of spirituality. > > There is a nice example to show the distinction between religiosity > > and spirituality--that is, real religion. > > > > It is the story about a great saintly person by the name of Haridas > > Thakur. Born in a Mohammedan family, Haridas Thakur lived in the > > fifteenth century in India. He was a follower of Lord Chaitanya > > Mahaprabhu Who taught him the power of the Holy Names of God. He was > > declared by Lord Chaitanya to be " Nama Acharya " --spiritual master of > > the Holy Names. Wherever he went, he was chanting, " Gopala, Govinda, > > Rama, Krishna, Haribol, Haribol. " And he would be getting all kinds > > of crowds singing and chanting with him. In this way, Haridas Thakur > > influenced many, many people to hear and chant the Names of God. He > > was not claiming he was Hindu; he was not claiming he was Muslim. And > > yet, he was truly a spiritual person directly influencing people in > > their spiritual life by giving them the Names of God. > > > > So this group has maintained its quality by opening its doors to > > everyone. As you have noticed, we are not supressing anyone's > > opinions but allowing a dialogue to continue, otherwise the group > > simply gets boring and passive. > > > > I personally thank Narayana Dasa Prabhu to have come forward and > > place his opinions boldly.However if the mention of those verses in > > the forwarded message has offended anyone, please let me know > > directly, we can delete that message and put an end to the arguments. > > > > > > , " narayana_das77 " > > narayana_das77@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends , > > > > > > Any devotional Forum like this " -group " which > > > discuss about Lord Krishna is like a Mandir . Recitation of > > > " Mlecha-verses " is forbidden in a Mandir . Because of the > > > desire to attract non-Hindus, if somebody resorts to the recitation > > of > > > " Mlecha-verses " in any form , it is an abuse against Hinduism ( > > > Eternal way of living according to the Vedas). > > > > > > Hidden Agenda of Mlechas > > > > > > Often the born Asuras ( demons) following the anti-Vedic > > > `Mlecha-religions' , join the Hindu discussions uninvited, just > > > for the purpose of forcing their hidden agenda ( rejection of > > Deity > > > worship and Vedic faith) in a step-by-step manner . At first , the > > > disguised `Mlecha' pretends to praise the " liberal " > > > nature of the " all-accepting " Hinduism . Next, they distort the > > > Vedic scriptures and quote " opposing verses " from own > > > Mlecha-books to confuse the Hindus . Finally, they declare that , > > true > > > God has forbidden Deity worship and therefore it is time for the > > > unbelievers (Hindus) to convert to the " true religion " ( > > > Abrahamic religion) . The Mlecha-books permit it's followers to use > > > any type of treachery against the unbelievers . According to it , > > > truthfulness is meant only for the dealings within own religion . > > The > > > unbelievers are to be converted at any cost ; and if it is not > > possible > > > confusion to be created among them to divide and conquer . > > > > > > Vedas , the Literary form of Lord Krishna > > > > > > The Vedas are the literary forms of Lord Krishna . Divinities > > like > > > Ramanujacharya and Lord Chaitanya were fully aware of the dangers > > of > > > the " Mlecha- agenda " . Therefore, they always adhered to the > > > Vedas in their teachings and never quoted from " Mlecha books " . > > > When certain pious men born in the " Mlecha religions sought the > > > spiritual guidance of these Acharyas , they were duly converted into > > > Vedic followers . > > > > > > Greed of some Modern Hindu Organizations > > > > > > In this age of Kali , many Hindus are systematically corrupted by > > > Mlecha-association' . They misinterpret even Gita clauses like > > > 18.66 to blaspheme that Lord Krishna asked to give up Vedas . > > > > > > None has the authority to change the Vedas . Bhagavad Gita is the > > > epitome of Vedas. Lord Krishna has never ever spoken a single word > > > against the Vedas . In fact , in His Gita advice , the Supreme Lord > > > always quotes from the teachings of Rishis ( who were initially > > created > > > and entrusted by the Lord Himself to propagate Vedic dharma ) . > > > > > > Unlike the single book based Abrahamic religions , there is Zero > > scope > > > for " opportunism " in Vedic Sanatana Dharma . Any person having > > > 100% faith in the Vedas is a Hindu whereas the one who rejects it > > and > > > blasphme is a `Mlecha '. > > > > > > Unfortunately , certain organizations that originated for the > > > propagation of Vedic faith , gradually got carried away by > > materialism . > > > They selfishly amended the Vedic regulations to attain quick > > success . > > > They involuntarily mixed-up the Vedic scriptures with > > > " Mlecha-books " and even employed unqualified Mlecha men and > > > women as Sannyasins and Pujaris . To them destination justifies the > > > path . Ultimately , such Organizations have fallen victim to the > > > internal contradictions thereby distancing from the grace of Lord > > > Krishna. > > > > > > Conclusion > > > > > > Lord Krishna says in Gita 16. 23-24 & 18.67 " He who discards the > > > rules and regulations of Vedic scriptures and acts in an arbitrary > > way > > > according to his own will, attains neither perfection nor happiness > > nor > > > the supreme destination. Therefore, let the Vedic scripture be your > > > authority in determining what should be done and what should not be > > > done. You should perform your duty following the scriptural > > injunction . > > > This confidential knowledge (Gita) should never be spoken by you to > > one > > > who is devoid of austerity, who is without devotion, who does not > > desire > > > to listen, or is envious of Me " . > > > > > > Hinduism is absoultely self reliant to explain it's philosophy . > > And it > > > does not require external support from Abrahamic books to prove the > > > relevance of Lord Krishna the God of Gods . > > > > > > May the merciful Lord Krishna bless you all to adhere to the Vedas > > at > > > all times without fail !!! > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Narayana > > > > > > > > > -- > > > , " sanjeev " <punjsanjeev@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > In my humble opinion, the only lesson we can learn from this > > message > > > > is that even the muslims indirectly worship Krishna, because > > Krishna > > > > is the ONE LORD of all Beings. The writer of this article Sri > > Krishna > > > > Hari Das > > > > Dr Satish Gosain MBBS DNB i Med > > > > Congregational Preacher, ISKCON, Delhi. > > > > 098-913-86194, 2512-5595, 2512-8754 > > > > > > > > can be contacted and asked what he means. What has fascinated me > > is > > > > that even the muslims do believe that Allah has a face, I don't > > think > > > > this is an attempt to convert, but to show the fact that there is > > > > only one authority over all beings, Lord Krishna. It all depends > > on > > > how people will interpret it, because each would have a different > > > opinion. I disagree that Hinduism has been abused here, not at all, > > > Hinduism has not been mentioned, the author has simply tried to say > > that > > > Allah has a form,which the muslims also do not know because the > > Prophet > > > Mohammed was dazzled by the Brahmjyoti itself and could not bear to > > see > > > the form that was behind the light. We as devotees of Krishna > > however > > > know that this form is Lord Krishna Himself, because it is > > described by > > > Lord Krishna that > > > > > > > > na tad bhasayate suryo > > > > na sasanko na pavakah > > > > yad gatva na nivartante > > > > tad dhama paramam mama > > > > > > > > That supreme abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, > > nor by > > > fire or electricity. Those who reach it never return to this > > material > > > world. > > > > > > > > PURPORT > > > > > > > > The spiritual world, the abode of the Supreme Personality of > > Godhead, > > > Krsna -- which is known as Krsnaloka, Goloka Vrndavana -- is > > described > > > here. In the spiritual sky there is no need of sunshine, moonshine, > > fire > > > or electricity, because all the planets are self-luminous. We have > > only > > > one planet in this universe, the sun, which is self-luminous, but > > all > > > the planets in the spiritual sky are self-luminous. The shining > > > effulgence of all those planets (called Vaikunthas) constitutes the > > > shining sky known as the brahmajyoti. Actually, the effulgence is > > > emanating from the planet of Krsna, Goloka Vrndavana. - thus ends > > the > > > purport by AC Bhaktivedanta Srila Prabhupada. > > > > > > > > Thus what Prophet Mohammed saw was that effulgence of light > > emanating > > > from KrishnaLoka, perhaps. This is my interpretation, I humbly state > > > that I am not trying to defend the writer, but to see things from > > his > > > viewpoint. For a devotee who sees Krishna in every being, thare can > > be > > > no other lesson to learn. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " narayana_das77 " > > > > narayana_das77@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > DEAR FRIENDS, > > > > > > > > > > WHAT MORAL LESSON DO WE LEARN FROM THIS RUBBISH MESSAGE ? . > > SHOULD > > > > > WE BREAK THE TEMPLES AND SLAUGHTER INNOCENT MILLIONS LIKE THE > > > > > FANATIC MUSLIM-TYRANTS OF YESTERYEARS . ONE CAN'T EAT POISON > > > > > WITHOUT A TINGE OF SWEET . CAITANYA'S NAME IS MENITONED HERE TO > > > > > BULLY THE READERS . AUTHOR'S REAL INTENTION IS TO ABUSE HINDUISM > > > > AND > > > > > PROMOTE CONVERSION . > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, > > > > > > > > > > NARAYANA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Dear Bhakta Aaron, I do agree totally with you when you say that " Learn to see Krishna everywhere " becaus if we fail to do so we are allowing some doubt to remain in our minds, and reserving some space for doubts to grow. If we see Krishna everywhere, it will not matter at all whether we associate with anyone from any section of society, and we will be free from sectarianism, from false notions that keep everyone confused in the name of religion. Thanks for adding your valuable comments. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. , " theeunnameable93 " <theeunnameable93 wrote: > Hare Krsna, > > This is all nonsense. > Srila Prabhupada always has said it does not matter if one is > Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jew, or Muslim. > It is all about Love of God. Some of the teachings are purer than > others because they are in different modes of nature. > Lord Caitanya is so Merciful that He can show Himself in any > teachings, and I mean any. > It does not matter if it is mleccha or not, since most people are > not so renunciated they do not have to wonder if the teachings they > are learning from are so pure or not. Study all teachings and chant > Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare > Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. > > Learn to see Krsna everywhere and not just in ISKCON teachings or > just in India. Lord Krsna is everywhere, He is so accepting of > where we all are. If we bother to just get to Know Him He will > reveal so much! He does not care so much about where we are or what > we are doing it is about if we truly do Love Him. > Actually we all do but a lot of us are not aware of it. > We are looking for Lord Krsna everywhere. I was raised a Christian > and I later got into Magick and my interest in Magick got me into > finding out about Lord Nrshimhadeva and Lord Krsna (same person). > Since He is everywhere if we have the desire to see Him He will > reveal Himself to us in whatever tradition is best for us and it is > not always the same as everyone elses. That is fine. It is not > supposed to be that way in this Kaliyuga Age anyway. > > Why does this matter so much anyway, is'nt all of this Puritanism > the problem? > > Stop it! > > Haribol, > Bhakta Aaron > Dear Friends , > > > > Some modern Hindu-reformers believe that , the Abrahmaic religions > are > > worshipping just another form of Lord Krishna called the " > > Brahma-Jyoti " . However , certain fundamental aspects of the > > Abrahamic dogma are ignored by these reformers . > > > > Brahma-Jyothi (Nirguna Brahman) is another form of Krishna > attained by > > great Jnana-Yogis . But it is not for the taking of those killers > of > > Brahmanas , Cows and innocent women and children . It is also > > inaccessible to those who exploit people in the name of religion . > > > > Bhavishya-purana predicts about Abrahamic Religions . > > > > Bhavisya purana states about the events that would happen in > future . > > It says that , the great king Shalivahana will once meet a > particular > > scholar in Himalayas . Replying to the king's question , the > scholar > > will say " I have come from the land of `Mlechas' (meat > > eaters) to learn about Yogic practices . And I intend to preach > about > > the greatness of God's name to the meat eaters " . > > > > Shalivahana will reply " You can preach that philosophy in the > land > > of " Mlechas " ( area beyond Sind) . ( But keep away from the > > abode of Vedas, Bhaarata ) . > > > > Any form of Lord Krishna doesn't permit killing of Brahmanas and > > Cows > > > > We can see that , fundamentally the Abrahamic religions are totally > > opposite Lord Krishna's philosophy . > > > > * They offer materialistic benefits to followers , both in > this > > world and in heaven . > > * They encourage lust . Even many of it's master-preachers > are > > icons of lust violence . > > * They reject every thing foreign to own religion . And ask for > > sustained war against the unbelievers (Vedic followers) . Also, > it says > > cheating the Vedic follower is a noble service . > > * They encourages slaughter of cows and beef eating among > followers > > . > > * They brand Brahmanas as evil and ask for their conversion > and if > > it fails total destruction . > > > > Lord Krishna Alerts about Such dangers in His parting discourse > > > > 1. In analyzing religious principles one must consider purity > and > > impurity. Similarly, in one's ordinary dealings one must > distinguish > > between good and bad, and to insure one's physical survival one > must > > recognize that which is auspicious and inauspicious. > > 2. I have revealed this way of life for those bearing the > burden of > > mundane religious principles . > > 3. Although all material bodies are composed of the same five > > elements and are thus equal, the Vedic literatures conceive of > different > > names and forms in relation to such bodies so that the living > entities > > may achieve their goal of life . > > 4. In order to restrict materialistic activities, I have > established > > that which is proper and improper among all material things, > including > > time, space and all physical objects. > > > > 5. Among places, those bereft of the spotted antelope, those > devoid > > of devotion to the Brahmanas, those possessing spotted antelopes > but > > bereft of respectable men, provinces like Kikata and places where > > cleanliness and purificatory rites are neglected, where meat- > eaters are > > prominent or where the earth is barren, are all considered to be > > contaminated lands . > > > > 1. That time which impedes the performance of one's duty is > > considered impure. > > 2. A mantra is purified when chanted with proper knowledge, and > > one's work is purified when offered to Me . Thus by purification of > > the place, time, substance, doer, mantras and work, one becomes > > religious, and by negligence of these six items one is considered > > irreligious. > > 3. Sometimes piety becomes sin, and sometimes what is > ordinarily sin > > becomes piety on the strength of Vedic injunctions . Such special > rules > > in effect eradicate the clear distinction between piety and sin. > > 4. By refraining from a particular sinful or materialistic > activity, > > one becomes freed from its bondage. Such renunciation is the basis > of > > religious and auspicious life for human beings and drives away all > > suffering, illusion and fear. > > 5. One who accepts material sense objects as desirable > certainly > > becomes attached to them. From such attachment lust arises, and > this > > lust creates quarrel among men . > > > > Conclusion > > > > 1. Although one can find different paths in Hinduism , none is > > contradictory to the Vedas . Slaughter of cows , Killing of > unbelievers, > > beef eating , etc are not permitted anywhere . > > 2. One has no right to harm any living or non-living being . > > 3. Hinduism is based on the theory of reincarnation . > According to it > > , a person is born as Mlecha due to his bad deeds in previous > births . > > However, even a Mlecha can transcend his in-born attributes and > become a > > Vedic follower by taking total shelter in Sri Krishna and living > > according to the Vedas . ( Haridasa Takur is a fine example for > this) > > . Lord Caitanya was so perfect in His selection of disciples that > not > > even a single one failed in contributing to Vedic growth . > > 4. Those who oppose the Vedas are living in an illusionary > world . > > They are deluded by Lord Krishna's `maya' ( illusionary > > potency ) . > > 5. God is kind to every being including the Mlechas . He has > > mercifully provided them certain very easy religious practices > like > > that of Abrahamic religions to save them from total > deterioration . > > However, it is not for the spiritual practising of Krishna- > devotees . > > Meat is nourishing to a dog , but it is a killer if eaten by a > cow . > > > > Regards, > > > > Narayana > > > > > > > > , " sanjeev " <punjsanjeev@> > > wrote: > > > > > > If a Hindu becomes contaminated by association with a muslim > then he > > > is a weak Hindu. Only those truly aware of Krishna in each and > every > > > being will remain unaffected by such association. Weak people > will > > > automatically be contaminated, even without associating with > Mlechhas. > > > > > > Religiousity is the outwardly perceptible symptom of > spirituality. > > > There is a nice example to show the distinction between > religiosity > > > and spirituality--that is, real religion. > > > > > > It is the story about a great saintly person by the name of > Haridas > > > Thakur. Born in a Mohammedan family, Haridas Thakur lived in the > > > fifteenth century in India. He was a follower of Lord Chaitanya > > > Mahaprabhu Who taught him the power of the Holy Names of God. He > was > > > declared by Lord Chaitanya to be " Nama Acharya " --spiritual > master of > > > the Holy Names. Wherever he went, he was chanting, " Gopala, > Govinda, > > > Rama, Krishna, Haribol, Haribol. " And he would be getting all > kinds > > > of crowds singing and chanting with him. In this way, Haridas > Thakur > > > influenced many, many people to hear and chant the Names of God. > He > > > was not claiming he was Hindu; he was not claiming he was > Muslim. And > > > yet, he was truly a spiritual person directly influencing people > in > > > their spiritual life by giving them the Names of God. > > > > > > So this group has maintained its quality by opening its doors to > > > everyone. As you have noticed, we are not supressing anyone's > > > opinions but allowing a dialogue to continue, otherwise the group > > > simply gets boring and passive. > > > > > > I personally thank Narayana Dasa Prabhu to have come forward and > > > place his opinions boldly.However if the mention of those verses > in > > > the forwarded message has offended anyone, please let me know > > > directly, we can delete that message and put an end to the > arguments. > > > > > > > > > , " narayana_das77 " > > > narayana_das77@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends , > > > > > > > > Any devotional Forum like this " -group " which > > > > discuss about Lord Krishna is like a Mandir . Recitation of > > > > " Mlecha-verses " is forbidden in a Mandir . Because of the > > > > desire to attract non-Hindus, if somebody resorts to the > recitation > > > of > > > > " Mlecha-verses " in any form , it is an abuse against Hinduism > ( > > > > Eternal way of living according to the Vedas). > > > > > > > > Hidden Agenda of Mlechas > > > > > > > > Often the born Asuras ( demons) following the anti-Vedic > > > > `Mlecha-religions' , join the Hindu discussions uninvited, just > > > > for the purpose of forcing their hidden agenda ( rejection of > > > Deity > > > > worship and Vedic faith) in a step-by-step manner . At first , > the > > > > disguised `Mlecha' pretends to praise the " liberal " > > > > nature of the " all-accepting " Hinduism . Next, they distort > the > > > > Vedic scriptures and quote " opposing verses " from own > > > > Mlecha-books to confuse the Hindus . Finally, they declare > that , > > > true > > > > God has forbidden Deity worship and therefore it is time for > the > > > > unbelievers (Hindus) to convert to the " true religion " ( > > > > Abrahamic religion) . The Mlecha-books permit it's followers > to use > > > > any type of treachery against the unbelievers . According to > it , > > > > truthfulness is meant only for the dealings within own > religion . > > > The > > > > unbelievers are to be converted at any cost ; and if it is not > > > possible > > > > confusion to be created among them to divide and conquer . > > > > > > > > Vedas , the Literary form of Lord Krishna > > > > > > > > The Vedas are the literary forms of Lord Krishna . Divinities > > > like > > > > Ramanujacharya and Lord Chaitanya were fully aware of the > dangers > > > of > > > > the " Mlecha- agenda " . Therefore, they always adhered to the > > > > Vedas in their teachings and never quoted from " Mlecha > books " . > > > > When certain pious men born in the " Mlecha religions sought the > > > > spiritual guidance of these Acharyas , they were duly > converted into > > > > Vedic followers . > > > > > > > > Greed of some Modern Hindu Organizations > > > > > > > > In this age of Kali , many Hindus are systematically corrupted > by > > > > Mlecha-association' . They misinterpret even Gita clauses like > > > > 18.66 to blaspheme that Lord Krishna asked to give up Vedas . > > > > > > > > None has the authority to change the Vedas . Bhagavad Gita is > the > > > > epitome of Vedas. Lord Krishna has never ever spoken a single > word > > > > against the Vedas . In fact , in His Gita advice , the Supreme > Lord > > > > always quotes from the teachings of Rishis ( who were initially > > > created > > > > and entrusted by the Lord Himself to propagate Vedic dharma ) . > > > > > > > > Unlike the single book based Abrahamic religions , there is > Zero > > > scope > > > > for " opportunism " in Vedic Sanatana Dharma . Any person having > > > > 100% faith in the Vedas is a Hindu whereas the one who rejects > it > > > and > > > > blasphme is a `Mlecha '. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately , certain organizations that originated for the > > > > propagation of Vedic faith , gradually got carried away by > > > materialism . > > > > They selfishly amended the Vedic regulations to attain quick > > > success . > > > > They involuntarily mixed-up the Vedic scriptures with > > > > " Mlecha-books " and even employed unqualified Mlecha men and > > > > women as Sannyasins and Pujaris . To them destination > justifies the > > > > path . Ultimately , such Organizations have fallen victim to > the > > > > internal contradictions thereby distancing from the grace of > Lord > > > > Krishna. > > > > > > > > Conclusion > > > > > > > > Lord Krishna says in Gita 16. 23-24 & 18.67 " He who discards > the > > > > rules and regulations of Vedic scriptures and acts in an > arbitrary > > > way > > > > according to his own will, attains neither perfection nor > happiness > > > nor > > > > the supreme destination. Therefore, let the Vedic scripture be > your > > > > authority in determining what should be done and what should > not be > > > > done. You should perform your duty following the scriptural > > > injunction . > > > > This confidential knowledge (Gita) should never be spoken by > you to > > > one > > > > who is devoid of austerity, who is without devotion, who does > not > > > desire > > > > to listen, or is envious of Me " . > > > > > > > > Hinduism is absoultely self reliant to explain it's > philosophy . > > > And it > > > > does not require external support from Abrahamic books to > prove the > > > > relevance of Lord Krishna the God of Gods . > > > > > > > > May the merciful Lord Krishna bless you all to adhere to the > Vedas > > > at > > > > all times without fail !!! > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Narayana > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > , " sanjeev " > <punjsanjeev@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In my humble opinion, the only lesson we can learn from this > > > message > > > > > is that even the muslims indirectly worship Krishna, because > > > Krishna > > > > > is the ONE LORD of all Beings. The writer of this article Sri > > > Krishna > > > > > Hari Das > > > > > Dr Satish Gosain MBBS DNB i Med > > > > > Congregational Preacher, ISKCON, Delhi. > > > > > 098-913-86194, 2512-5595, 2512-8754 > > > > > > > > > > can be contacted and asked what he means. What has > fascinated me > > > is > > > > > that even the muslims do believe that Allah has a face, I > don't > > > think > > > > > this is an attempt to convert, but to show the fact that > there is > > > > > only one authority over all beings, Lord Krishna. It all > depends > > > on > > > > how people will interpret it, because each would have a > different > > > > opinion. I disagree that Hinduism has been abused here, not at > all, > > > > Hinduism has not been mentioned, the author has simply tried > to say > > > that > > > > Allah has a form,which the muslims also do not know because the > > > Prophet > > > > Mohammed was dazzled by the Brahmjyoti itself and could not > bear to > > > see > > > > the form that was behind the light. We as devotees of Krishna > > > however > > > > know that this form is Lord Krishna Himself, because it is > > > described by > > > > Lord Krishna that > > > > > > > > > > na tad bhasayate suryo > > > > > na sasanko na pavakah > > > > > yad gatva na nivartante > > > > > tad dhama paramam mama > > > > > > > > > > That supreme abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or > moon, > > > nor by > > > > fire or electricity. Those who reach it never return to this > > > material > > > > world. > > > > > > > > > > PURPORT > > > > > > > > > > The spiritual world, the abode of the Supreme Personality of > > > Godhead, > > > > Krsna -- which is known as Krsnaloka, Goloka Vrndavana -- is > > > described > > > > here. In the spiritual sky there is no need of sunshine, > moonshine, > > > fire > > > > or electricity, because all the planets are self-luminous. We > have > > > only > > > > one planet in this universe, the sun, which is self-luminous, > but > > > all > > > > the planets in the spiritual sky are self-luminous. The shining > > > > effulgence of all those planets (called Vaikunthas) > constitutes the > > > > shining sky known as the brahmajyoti. Actually, the effulgence > is > > > > emanating from the planet of Krsna, Goloka Vrndavana. - thus > ends > > > the > > > > purport by AC Bhaktivedanta Srila Prabhupada. > > > > > > > > > > Thus what Prophet Mohammed saw was that effulgence of light > > > emanating > > > > from KrishnaLoka, perhaps. This is my interpretation, I humbly > state > > > > that I am not trying to defend the writer, but to see things > from > > > his > > > > viewpoint. For a devotee who sees Krishna in every being, > thare can > > > be > > > > no other lesson to learn. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > , " narayana_das77 " > > > > > narayana_das77@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > DEAR FRIENDS, > > > > > > > > > > > > WHAT MORAL LESSON DO WE LEARN FROM THIS RUBBISH MESSAGE ? . > > > SHOULD > > > > > > WE BREAK THE TEMPLES AND SLAUGHTER INNOCENT MILLIONS LIKE > THE > > > > > > FANATIC MUSLIM-TYRANTS OF YESTERYEARS . ONE CAN'T EAT > POISON > > > > > > WITHOUT A TINGE OF SWEET . CAITANYA'S NAME IS MENITONED > HERE TO > > > > > > BULLY THE READERS . AUTHOR'S REAL INTENTION IS TO ABUSE > HINDUISM > > > > > AND > > > > > > PROMOTE CONVERSION . > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, > > > > > > > > > > > > NARAYANA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2007 Report Share Posted October 11, 2007 Dear Friends, What I have written are based on the Vedic injunctions . I have not used the term "Hindu" to mean a particular religion . According to the common Vedic Sages of this age, "Hindu" is one who lives according to the Vedas . If a person who is born in any other religion like Budhism , Christianity , Islam or Judaism , accepts the Vedas completely and lives according to it , he is a "Hindu" . On the other hand , if a person born in the "Hindu religion " does not live according to the Vedic instructions , is a Mlecha. The Vedas are the literary forms of Lord Krishna and therefore what is mentioned therein is mandatory . Although, Cow dung and Shankha (Conch) are excretions of two living beings , they are considered as auspicious only because the Vedas have instructed so . On the contrary , the excretion of a learned Brahmana is inauspicious because the Vedas reject it . Therefore , the acceptance criteria is the Veda regulations . Bhagavad Gita is the essence of the Vedas . A Vaishnava is one who follows the Gita in letter and spirit . As such , Vaishnava is the purest "Hindu" . Unfortunately , in this age of deterioration (Kali-Yuga) , many people call themselves as "Hindu" or Vaishnava , but do not accept the Gita completely . They accept only those portions that are suitable for their living style. Such people are harming own `aura' ( Clarity of "Supersoul" dwelling in the heart) . They get deluded by the following : One can worship Krishna in any form using any religious book . Gita and the Abrahamic religious books are fundamentally the same , but in different forms . One has to chant just the prescribed number of a particular mantra every day ; and that is more than sufficient . Then he can live whichever way , he wants to . According to the Vedas , one's activity should be based on the priority order given below : Bhagavad Gita . Conduct of great Sages of the past . Virtuous of People of this age who lives according to Gita . Conscience . From the above , it is clear that , conscience comes the last in determining one's dharma ( righteous deed) . The sanskrit term "Pravrti" means , performing according to the vedic instruction . ( Not according to own whims and fancies) . The fundamental concept of the Vedas is that God dwells within everything . One's present birth is based on his deeds in previous births . Whatever good or bad one experiences in this life are due to his deeds in the previous and current births . One gets attracted to Lord Krishna either due to his meritorious deeds in previous birth or due to Krishna's recent decision to select him as a devotee . Lord Krishna does not allow for the killing of any living being to enable meat eating . If any religious book calls for the destruction of unbelievers or the killing innocent animals to facilitate meat eating , it has nothing to do with Lord Krishna . If a religious book emphasizes on Violence or money power for religious propaganda , it is totally unacceptable to Lord Krishna . If somebody out of greed for money and power preaches the contrary by falsifying the Gita, Lord Krishna will prove him wrong in due course . Lord Krishna incarnated as Lord Caitanya to recover the lost glory of the Vedic faith . He taught that chanting of Lord Krishna's names in total surrender purifies the Devotee of all dirt ; and the Devotee should remain focused so to enable Lord Krishna to use him as an instrument . In service of Lord Krishna, Naryanyana das , "sanjeev" <punjsanjeev wrote:>> Dear Bhakta Aaron, > > I do agree totally with you when you say that "Learn to see Krishna > everywhere" becaus if we fail to do so we are allowing some doubt to > remain in our minds, and reserving some space for doubts to grow. If > we see Krishna everywhere, it will not matter at all whether we > associate with anyone from any section of society, and we will be > free from sectarianism, from false notions that keep everyone > confused in the name of religion. Thanks for adding your valuable > comments.> All glories to Srila Prabhupada.> , "theeunnameable93" > theeunnameable93@ wrote:> > > Hare Krsna,> > > > This is all nonsense. > > Srila Prabhupada always has said it does not matter if one is > > Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, Jew, or Muslim.> > It is all about Love of God. Some of the teachings are purer than > > others because they are in different modes of nature.> > Lord Caitanya is so Merciful that He can show Himself in any > > teachings, and I mean any.> > It does not matter if it is mleccha or not, since most people are > > not so renunciated they do not have to wonder if the teachings they > > are learning from are so pure or not. Study all teachings and > chant > > Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare > > Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare.> > > > Learn to see Krsna everywhere and not just in ISKCON teachings or > > just in India. Lord Krsna is everywhere, He is so accepting of > > where we all are. If we bother to just get to Know Him He will > > reveal so much! He does not care so much about where we are or > what > > we are doing it is about if we truly do Love Him.> > Actually we all do but a lot of us are not aware of it.> > We are looking for Lord Krsna everywhere. I was raised a Christian > > and I later got into Magick and my interest in Magick got me into > > finding out about Lord Nrshimhadeva and Lord Krsna (same person).> > Since He is everywhere if we have the desire to see Him He will > > reveal Himself to us in whatever tradition is best for us and it is > > not always the same as everyone elses. That is fine. It is not > > supposed to be that way in this Kaliyuga Age anyway.> > > > Why does this matter so much anyway, is'nt all of this Puritanism > > the problem?> > > > Stop it!> > > > Haribol, > > Bhakta Aaron> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Friends ,> > > > > > Some modern Hindu-reformers believe that , the Abrahmaic > religions > > are> > > worshipping just another form of Lord Krishna called the "> > > Brahma-Jyoti " . However , certain fundamental aspects of the> > > Abrahamic dogma are ignored by these reformers .> > > > > > Brahma-Jyothi (Nirguna Brahman) is another form of Krishna > > attained by> > > great Jnana-Yogis . But it is not for the taking of those killers > > of> > > Brahmanas , Cows and innocent women and children . It is also> > > inaccessible to those who exploit people in the name of religion .> > > > > > Bhavishya-purana predicts about Abrahamic Religions .> > > > > > Bhavisya purana states about the events that would happen in > > future .> > > It says that , the great king Shalivahana will once meet a > > particular> > > scholar in Himalayas . Replying to the king's question , the > > scholar> > > will say " I have come from the land of `Mlechas' (meat> > > eaters) to learn about Yogic practices . And I intend to preach > > about> > > the greatness of God's name to the meat eaters " .> > > > > > Shalivahana will reply " You can preach that philosophy in the > > land> > > of "Mlechas" ( area beyond Sind) . ( But keep away from the> > > abode of Vedas, Bhaarata ) .> > > > > > Any form of Lord Krishna doesn't permit killing of Brahmanas and> > > Cows> > > > > > We can see that , fundamentally the Abrahamic religions are > totally> > > opposite Lord Krishna's philosophy .> > > > > > * They offer materialistic benefits to followers , both in > > this> > > world and in heaven .> > > * They encourage lust . Even many of it's master-preachers > > are> > > icons of lust violence .> > > * They reject every thing foreign to own religion . And ask > for> > > sustained war against the unbelievers (Vedic followers) . Also, > > it says> > > cheating the Vedic follower is a noble service .> > > * They encourages slaughter of cows and beef eating among > > followers > > > .> > > * They brand Brahmanas as evil and ask for their conversion > > and if> > > it fails total destruction .> > > > > > Lord Krishna Alerts about Such dangers in His parting discourse> > > > > > 1. In analyzing religious principles one must consider purity > > and> > > impurity. Similarly, in one's ordinary dealings one must > > distinguish> > > between good and bad, and to insure one's physical survival one > > must> > > recognize that which is auspicious and inauspicious.> > > 2. I have revealed this way of life for those bearing the > > burden of> > > mundane religious principles .> > > 3. Although all material bodies are composed of the same five> > > elements and are thus equal, the Vedic literatures conceive of > > different> > > names and forms in relation to such bodies so that the living > > entities> > > may achieve their goal of life .> > > 4. In order to restrict materialistic activities, I have > > established> > > that which is proper and improper among all material things, > > including> > > time, space and all physical objects.> > > > > > 5. Among places, those bereft of the spotted antelope, those > > devoid> > > of devotion to the Brahmanas, those possessing spotted antelopes > > but> > > bereft of respectable men, provinces like Kikata and places where> > > cleanliness and purificatory rites are neglected, where meat-> > eaters are> > > prominent or where the earth is barren, are all considered to be> > > contaminated lands .> > > > > > 1. That time which impedes the performance of one's duty is> > > considered impure.> > > 2. A mantra is purified when chanted with proper knowledge, > and> > > one's work is purified when offered to Me . Thus by purification > of> > > the place, time, substance, doer, mantras and work, one becomes> > > religious, and by negligence of these six items one is considered> > > irreligious.> > > 3. Sometimes piety becomes sin, and sometimes what is > > ordinarily sin> > > becomes piety on the strength of Vedic injunctions . Such special > > rules> > > in effect eradicate the clear distinction between piety and sin.> > > 4. By refraining from a particular sinful or materialistic > > activity,> > > one becomes freed from its bondage. Such renunciation is the > basis > > of> > > religious and auspicious life for human beings and drives away all> > > suffering, illusion and fear.> > > 5. One who accepts material sense objects as desirable > > certainly> > > becomes attached to them. From such attachment lust arises, and > > this> > > lust creates quarrel among men .> > > > > > Conclusion> > > > > > 1. Although one can find different paths in Hinduism , none is> > > contradictory to the Vedas . Slaughter of cows , Killing of > > unbelievers,> > > beef eating , etc are not permitted anywhere .> > > 2. One has no right to harm any living or non-living being .> > > 3. Hinduism is based on the theory of reincarnation . > > According to it> > > , a person is born as Mlecha due to his bad deeds in previous > > births .> > > However, even a Mlecha can transcend his in-born attributes and > > become a> > > Vedic follower by taking total shelter in Sri Krishna and living> > > according to the Vedas . ( Haridasa Takur is a fine example for > > this)> > > . Lord Caitanya was so perfect in His selection of disciples that > > not> > > even a single one failed in contributing to Vedic growth .> > > 4. Those who oppose the Vedas are living in an illusionary > > world .> > > They are deluded by Lord Krishna's `maya' ( illusionary> > > potency ) .> > > 5. God is kind to every being including the Mlechas . He has> > > mercifully provided them certain very easy religious practices > > like> > > that of Abrahamic religions to save them from total > > deterioration . > > > However, it is not for the spiritual practising of Krishna-> > devotees .> > > Meat is nourishing to a dog , but it is a killer if eaten by a > > cow .> > > > > > Regards,> > > > > > Narayana> > > > > > > > > > > > , "sanjeev" <punjsanjeev@>> > > wrote:> > > >> > > > If a Hindu becomes contaminated by association with a muslim > > then he> > > > is a weak Hindu. Only those truly aware of Krishna in each and > > every> > > > being will remain unaffected by such association. Weak people > > will> > > > automatically be contaminated, even without associating with > > Mlechhas.> > > >> > > > Religiousity is the outwardly perceptible symptom of > > spirituality.> > > > There is a nice example to show the distinction between > > religiosity> > > > and spirituality--that is, real religion.> > > >> > > > It is the story about a great saintly person by the name of > > Haridas> > > > Thakur. Born in a Mohammedan family, Haridas Thakur lived in the> > > > fifteenth century in India. He was a follower of Lord Chaitanya> > > > Mahaprabhu Who taught him the power of the Holy Names of God. > He > > was> > > > declared by Lord Chaitanya to be "Nama Acharya"--spiritual > > master of> > > > the Holy Names. Wherever he went, he was chanting, "Gopala, > > Govinda,> > > > Rama, Krishna, Haribol, Haribol." And he would be getting all > > kinds> > > > of crowds singing and chanting with him. In this way, Haridas > > Thakur> > > > influenced many, many people to hear and chant the Names of > God. > > He> > > > was not claiming he was Hindu; he was not claiming he was > > Muslim. And> > > > yet, he was truly a spiritual person directly influencing > people > > in> > > > their spiritual life by giving them the Names of God.> > > >> > > > So this group has maintained its quality by opening its doors to> > > > everyone. As you have noticed, we are not supressing anyone's> > > > opinions but allowing a dialogue to continue, otherwise the > group> > > > simply gets boring and passive.> > > >> > > > I personally thank Narayana Dasa Prabhu to have come forward and> > > > place his opinions boldly.However if the mention of those > verses > > in> > > > the forwarded message has offended anyone, please let me know> > > > directly, we can delete that message and put an end to the > > arguments.> > > >> > > >> > > > , "narayana_das77"> > > > narayana_das77@ wrote:> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Dear Friends ,> > > > >> > > > > Any devotional Forum like this "-group" which> > > > > discuss about Lord Krishna is like a Mandir . Recitation of> > > > > "Mlecha-verses" is forbidden in a Mandir . Because of the> > > > > desire to attract non-Hindus, if somebody resorts to the > > recitation> > > > of> > > > > "Mlecha-verses " in any form , it is an abuse against > Hinduism > > (> > > > > Eternal way of living according to the Vedas).> > > > >> > > > > Hidden Agenda of Mlechas> > > > >> > > > > Often the born Asuras ( demons) following the anti-Vedic> > > > > `Mlecha-religions' , join the Hindu discussions uninvited, > just> > > > > for the purpose of forcing their hidden agenda ( rejection of> > > > Deity> > > > > worship and Vedic faith) in a step-by-step manner . At > first , > > the> > > > > disguised `Mlecha' pretends to praise the "liberal"> > > > > nature of the " all-accepting " Hinduism . Next, they distort > > the> > > > > Vedic scriptures and quote "opposing verses" from own> > > > > Mlecha-books to confuse the Hindus . Finally, they declare > > that ,> > > > true> > > > > God has forbidden Deity worship and therefore it is time for > > the> > > > > unbelievers (Hindus) to convert to the " true religion " (> > > > > Abrahamic religion) . The Mlecha-books permit it's followers > > to use> > > > > any type of treachery against the unbelievers . According to > > it ,> > > > > truthfulness is meant only for the dealings within own > > religion .> > > > The> > > > > unbelievers are to be converted at any cost ; and if it is not> > > > possible> > > > > confusion to be created among them to divide and conquer .> > > > >> > > > > Vedas , the Literary form of Lord Krishna> > > > >> > > > > The Vedas are the literary forms of Lord Krishna . Divinities> > > > like> > > > > Ramanujacharya and Lord Chaitanya were fully aware of the > > dangers> > > > of> > > > > the "Mlecha- agenda" . Therefore, they always adhered to the> > > > > Vedas in their teachings and never quoted from "Mlecha > > books " .> > > > > When certain pious men born in the "Mlecha religions sought > the> > > > > spiritual guidance of these Acharyas , they were duly > > converted into> > > > > Vedic followers .> > > > >> > > > > Greed of some Modern Hindu Organizations> > > > >> > > > > In this age of Kali , many Hindus are systematically > corrupted > > by> > > > > Mlecha-association' . They misinterpret even Gita clauses like> > > > > 18.66 to blaspheme that Lord Krishna asked to give up Vedas .> > > > >> > > > > None has the authority to change the Vedas . Bhagavad Gita is > > the> > > > > epitome of Vedas. Lord Krishna has never ever spoken a single > > word> > > > > against the Vedas . In fact , in His Gita advice , the > Supreme > > Lord> > > > > always quotes from the teachings of Rishis ( who were > initially> > > > created> > > > > and entrusted by the Lord Himself to propagate Vedic > dharma ) .> > > > >> > > > > Unlike the single book based Abrahamic religions , there is > > Zero> > > > scope> > > > > for "opportunism" in Vedic Sanatana Dharma . Any person having> > > > > 100% faith in the Vedas is a Hindu whereas the one who > rejects > > it> > > > and> > > > > blasphme is a `Mlecha '.> > > > >> > > > > Unfortunately , certain organizations that originated for the> > > > > propagation of Vedic faith , gradually got carried away by> > > > materialism .> > > > > They selfishly amended the Vedic regulations to attain quick> > > > success .> > > > > They involuntarily mixed-up the Vedic scriptures with> > > > > "Mlecha-books" and even employed unqualified Mlecha men and> > > > > women as Sannyasins and Pujaris . To them destination > > justifies the> > > > > path . Ultimately , such Organizations have fallen victim to > > the> > > > > internal contradictions thereby distancing from the grace of > > Lord> > > > > Krishna.> > > > >> > > > > Conclusion> > > > >> > > > > Lord Krishna says in Gita 16. 23-24 & 18.67 " He who discards > > the> > > > > rules and regulations of Vedic scriptures and acts in an > > arbitrary> > > > way> > > > > according to his own will, attains neither perfection nor > > happiness> > > > nor> > > > > the supreme destination. Therefore, let the Vedic scripture > be > > your> > > > > authority in determining what should be done and what should > > not be> > > > > done. You should perform your duty following the scriptural> > > > injunction .> > > > > This confidential knowledge (Gita) should never be spoken by > > you to> > > > one> > > > > who is devoid of austerity, who is without devotion, who does > > not> > > > desire> > > > > to listen, or is envious of Me " .> > > > >> > > > > Hinduism is absoultely self reliant to explain it's > > philosophy .> > > > And it> > > > > does not require external support from Abrahamic books to > > prove the> > > > > relevance of Lord Krishna the God of Gods .> > > > >> > > > > May the merciful Lord Krishna bless you all to adhere to the > > Vedas> > > > at> > > > > all times without fail !!!> > > > >> > > > > Regards,> > > > >> > > > > Narayana> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > --> > > > > , "sanjeev" > > <punjsanjeev@>> > > > > wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > In my humble opinion, the only lesson we can learn from this> > > > message> > > > > > is that even the muslims indirectly worship Krishna, because> > > > Krishna> > > > > > is the ONE LORD of all Beings. The writer of this article > Sri> > > > Krishna> > > > > > Hari Das> > > > > > Dr Satish Gosain MBBS DNB i Med> > > > > > Congregational Preacher, ISKCON, Delhi.> > > > > > 098-913-86194, 2512-5595, 2512-8754> > > > > >> > > > > > can be contacted and asked what he means. What has > > fascinated me> > > > is> > > > > > that even the muslims do believe that Allah has a face, I > > don't> > > > think> > > > > > this is an attempt to convert, but to show the fact that > > there is> > > > > > only one authority over all beings, Lord Krishna. It all > > depends> > > > on> > > > > how people will interpret it, because each would have a > > different> > > > > opinion. I disagree that Hinduism has been abused here, not > at > > all,> > > > > Hinduism has not been mentioned, the author has simply tried > > to say> > > > that> > > > > Allah has a form,which the muslims also do not know because > the> > > > Prophet> > > > > Mohammed was dazzled by the Brahmjyoti itself and could not > > bear to> > > > see> > > > > the form that was behind the light. We as devotees of Krishna> > > > however> > > > > know that this form is Lord Krishna Himself, because it is> > > > described by> > > > > Lord Krishna that> > > > > >> > > > > > na tad bhasayate suryo> > > > > > na sasanko na pavakah> > > > > > yad gatva na nivartante> > > > > > tad dhama paramam mama> > > > > >> > > > > > That supreme abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or > > moon,> > > > nor by> > > > > fire or electricity. Those who reach it never return to this> > > > material> > > > > world.> > > > > >> > > > > > PURPORT> > > > > >> > > > > > The spiritual world, the abode of the Supreme Personality of> > > > Godhead,> > > > > Krsna -- which is known as Krsnaloka, Goloka Vrndavana -- is> > > > described> > > > > here. In the spiritual sky there is no need of sunshine, > > moonshine,> > > > fire> > > > > or electricity, because all the planets are self-luminous. We > > have> > > > only> > > > > one planet in this universe, the sun, which is self-luminous, > > but> > > > all> > > > > the planets in the spiritual sky are self-luminous. The > shining> > > > > effulgence of all those planets (called Vaikunthas) > > constitutes the> > > > > shining sky known as the brahmajyoti. Actually, the > effulgence > > is> > > > > emanating from the planet of Krsna, Goloka Vrndavana. - thus > > ends> > > > the> > > > > purport by AC Bhaktivedanta Srila Prabhupada.> > > > > >> > > > > > Thus what Prophet Mohammed saw was that effulgence of light> > > > emanating> > > > > from KrishnaLoka, perhaps. This is my interpretation, I > humbly > > state> > > > > that I am not trying to defend the writer, but to see things > > from> > > > his> > > > > viewpoint. For a devotee who sees Krishna in every being, > > thare can> > > > be> > > > > no other lesson to learn.> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > , "narayana_das77"> > > > > > narayana_das77@ wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > DEAR FRIENDS,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > WHAT MORAL LESSON DO WE LEARN FROM THIS RUBBISH > MESSAGE ? .> > > > SHOULD> > > > > > > WE BREAK THE TEMPLES AND SLAUGHTER INNOCENT MILLIONS LIKE > > THE> > > > > > > FANATIC MUSLIM-TYRANTS OF YESTERYEARS . ONE CAN'T EAT > > POISON> > > > > > > WITHOUT A TINGE OF SWEET . CAITANYA'S NAME IS MENITONED > > HERE TO> > > > > > > BULLY THE READERS . AUTHOR'S REAL INTENTION IS TO ABUSE > > HINDUISM> > > > > > AND> > > > > > > PROMOTE CONVERSION .> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Rgds,> > > > > > >> > > > > > > NARAYANA> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.