JESUS TAUGHT BHAKTI-YOGA - SOME MORE QUESTIONS

November 9, 2007

Dear Shri Madhavji, Namasthe ! Our Sanatana Dharma survives because we apply the SCIENCE of LOGIC AND BASED ON DEBATES / DISCUSSIONS to arrive at TRUTHS. I DO NOT KNOW WHY WE ARE WITHDRAWING FROM A CONSTRUCTIVE TOPIC SO THAT MISUNDERSTANDINGS ABOUT ANY ISSUE COULD BE REMOVED BY POSITIVELY ENGAGING IN DISCUSSIONS. It is not going

to be a war in this forum but a clean and clear discussion. I would have been very happy if you came out with your point of view instead of just SAYING “ENOUGH IS ENOUGH”, which is misleading about your own understandings. Are you scared of something ? With regards, VM WE ARE ALL SONS OF THE ONE AND ONLY DIVINE. HOWEVER, WHY THERE SHOULD BE A DIVISION OF HUMANITY LIKE THAT SEMITIC / ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS DID, AND CLAIM THAT THEIR RELIGIONS ARE THE ONLY TRUE ONES. WHILE MR. STEPHEN KNAAP ADMITS THAT JESUS IS SON OF GOD / KRISHNA (FOR THAT MATTER, WE ALL ARE SONS OF THE “ONE AND ONLY DIVINE”), THEN WHY HE DOES NOT TELL VATICAN AND ALL THOSE PRIEST CLASS TO TEACH THEIR FOLLOWERS TO LOOK FOR THE TRUE FATHER AND NOT THE SON (EVEN THOUGH SON HAS NOT SAID ANYWHERE THAT HE IS SON OF KRISHNA, NOR HAS HE TAUGHT THE ASHTANGA YOGA SHASTRA / VEDA TO ANY ONE OF HIS FOLLOWERS, INSTEAD HE HAS ASKED THEM TO CONVERT THE WHOLE WORLD TO HIS DIVISIVE PHILOSOPHIES !!!). THE MESSAGE POSTED IN THIS FORUM TRULY IS NOT VALID IN THIS FORUM, UNLESS OUR FRIEND POOJANEEYA SHRI

KARTHICK (OR CARTHIC_K – THE NAME ITSELF SOUNDS PHONY TO ME) Dear Shri Frank Morales Ji, Namasthe ! YOUR VIEWS ARE VERY CLEAR / UNAMBIGUOUS AND WORTH RELISHING AND ALSO TO THE POINT AND TRUE TO THE IDEALS OF SANATANA DHARMA. I ALWAYS LOOK UP TO YOUR EXPRESSIONS ON MANY ISSUES. WITH BEST REGARDS, VM Questions and Answers on Dharmadharmasena@gro ups.com, charlotte fritz<charlotteroberta@ ...> wrote:>> Namaste.> My question is about how to affect the situations in the world onvarious levels. I once had some people close to me who were inclinedto what I call "angry political activism" and found myself verydisturbed my their attitudes and actions. Since begining my Yogastudies and life practicing Sanatana Dharma I have completely takenmyself away from any kind of political involvement, I believe, to afault. Somehow I have convinced myself that by not paying attentionto the news, not talking directly about politics, and not voting aremy ways of silently protesting the current systems. If I am honestwith myself, maybe I'm being lazy. Maybe nothing has directlyeffected me and my loved ones or disturbed the comfort of ourlifestyle enough yet. It is however my strong belief that each of usdo a

great deal for the world as we seek to live a more sattvicexistence, practice Karma Yoga, and focus some of our prayer andmeditiation toward improving the state of this realm.> How and where do we responsibly direct our energy.> Om Shanti.> Sita>Sri Dharma Pravartaka Acharya Responds:Re: political involvement Dear Sita,Namaste. Thank you for this very though-inspiring message andquestion. Here are my thoughts on the topic of Dharma and politics.Dharma politics (for lack of a better term) is definitely verydifferent from what you've described as the anger based politics thatyou mentioned being turned off from. It's quite true that in generalthere tends to be a lot of anger, confrontation, compromise, and self-interest when it comes to many people who get too deeply

involved inmainstream political action. The entire history of the TwentiethCentury is a testament of how much destruction and suffering can bewrought upon humanity in the name of one ideology or another.Dharma, however, while encouraging all people to be actively involvedin the social-political realities around them, is never based uponanger, but upon a vision of positive and spiritually- based socialchange. Dharma is based upon the principles of humility, simplicity,devotion, and compassion, among other ethical guidelines.Being a firmly spiritually based philosophy, Dharma views the bestway to change society as being to first change the individualspiritually and ethically. We seek first to change people'sconsciousness, which in turn has a consequent effect on society.What we have seen repeatedly is that when a person radicallytransforms themselves inwardly, on the level of consciousness, theoutward

repercussions of such personal change are powerfullyeffective in improving our social environment. Any society, afterall, is composed of myriad individuals, all of whom in turn affecttheir society in terms of their own level of consciousness.If the majority of people in any society are given to materialistic,egoic, and conflictual consciousness, it will be impossible to have asociety in which spiritual, loving, and compassionate values reign.When, on the other hand, we raise ourselves to a higher, morecompassionate, and more constructive level of consciousness, otherswho come in contact with us are similarly influenced to surrender totheir higher, Atmic selves. The palpable chain reaction then has apositive impact on the social-political reality around us. A sattviclifestyle is infectious! And a society of people who are sattvicproduces a governance mandate that works in the interests of itspeople.On a

more practical level, who we vote for, what organizations wesupport, what political decisions we make, should certainly bealigned as much as possible with our understanding of Dharma. Dharmainforms all of reality. Being the Natural Law of all reality, thereis no aspect of the human experience that Dharma cannot be applied to…and this includes the political realm. Before we vote or engage inany form of political activity, we must always ask ourselvesfirst "what would Lord Krishna's advice be in the Bhagavad Gita onthis issue?"All truly positive and constructive social-political change, however,first begins with compassionately reaching out to others and helpingthem in to progress in their own personal journey toward higherconsciousness and spiritual enlightenment. The root of compassion isspiritual compassion.I hope this was helpful for you. Please take care.Om

Shanti,Sri Dharma Pravartaka Acharya(Dr. Frank Morales, Ph.D)http://www.dharmace ntral.comhttp://groups. / group/drmoralesl ist/Please help us educate the world about the beautiful path of Sanatana Dharma by forwarding this message. FROM WHOM ALL THE FOLLOWERS SUCH AS THE FOLLOWING SO-CALLED "SAINT" AND SAINTS GOT THE INSPIRATION FROM ???? of course, from jesus !!! WHY GO TO THE HISTORY OF CENTURIES BEFORE ? TAKE UP OUR CONTEMPORARY, THE "SO-CALLED MOTHER" TERESSA, WHO WAS PROMOTED BY THE WESTERN MEDIA TO SUCH HEIGHTS THAT SHE GOT THE FREEDOM TO ABUSE ANYONE. YOU WANT THE TRUE STORY OF THIS CURIOUS LADY, GO TO WWW.TRUTHWEBME. COM fromDR. AROUP CHATTERJEE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF SAINTS IN CHURCHIANITY, THOSE WHO CONVERTED MAXIMUM HARVESTING OF SOULS (CONVERSIONS OF NON-X'IANS) AND MAXIMUM FUND COLLECTION FOR

VATICAN (BANK), THEY BECAME TRUE SAINTS. With regards, VM Dear Sir, I do not know if you are aware of a book on Inquisition in Goa written by researcher Shri A.K. Priyolkar and published by Bombay University. This book is worth traslation in all Indian languages and then, they should be distributed free to all the Churches.Over 3000 temples werte destroyed and over 2000 people were burnt alive at Stakes to instill terror into the hearts of Hindus.Venkat <apexpreci2000@ .co. in> wrote: Francis Xavier is a Catholic Saint. He is considered an apostle of the East and is considered on of the greatest Roman Catholic missionary. He love for Hindus was â€˜boundlessâ€™ Naturally, since Christianity is THE religion oflove. This messenger great follower of Jesus Christ was full of â€˜praiseâ€™ for Hinduism. According to him, in Hinduism: â€œAll the invocations of the pagans are hateful to God because all their gods are

devils.â€œ[1] There is no end to his love talk, the very essence of Christianity. He comes to this conclusion about Hindus:â€œHindus are an â€œunholy raceâ€ that they are â€œThey are liars and cheats to the very backbone.â€. thatâ€the Indians being black themselves, consider their own color the bestâ€ and also that â€œthey believe that their gods are black. On this account the great majority of their idols are as black as black can be, and moreover are generally so rubbed over with oil as to smell detestably, and seem to be as dirty as they are ugly and horrible to look at.â€ Thus speaketh St Francis, one of the greatest Christian missionary. To show his enormous love and respect for Hinduism, our Love Christian saint â€œrequestedâ€that Inquisition be installed in Goa. It was a way of showing his love and gratitude to the Christian God Jesus. â€œThe Goan inquisition is regarded by all

contemporary portrayals as the most vicious and violent inquisition ever executed by the Portuguese Catholic Church.â€ Historian Alfredo DeMello describes the performers of Goan inquisition asâ€œnefarious, fiendish, lustful, corrupt religious orders which pounced on Goa for the purpose of destroying paganism (ie Hinduism) and introducing the true religion of Christâ€ Saint Francis Xavier, one of the Greatest Catholic saints is a glowing record of Christian charity and love and brotherhood. Source:1. Saint Francis Xavier, James Brodrick, S.J., (New York: Wicklow Press, 1952), p.135.http://www.traditio ninaction. org/HotTopics/ g08htHindusAtFat ima_Vennari. html Hindu Genocide in Goan Inquisitionhttp://www.geocitie s.com/hindoo_ humanist/ goa1.html Jesus Christ: An Artifice for Aggression "The historicity of Jesus Christ as described in the gospels has been for a long time one of the principal dogmas of all Christian denominations. In India where the history of the search for the Jesus of history remains unknown even to the so-called educated elite, the missionaries continue to hawk this dogma without fear of contradiction. " "The scene in the modern West, however, has undergone a great change. What we witness over there is that this "solid historical figure" has evaporated into thin air as a result of painstaking Biblical and Christological research undertaken over the last more than two hundred years, mostly by theologians belonging to the Protestant churches." Now the entire 114-page 1994 book Jesus Christ: An Artifice for Aggression by Voice of India spokesman Sita Ram Goel can be read online at www.hamsa.org or downloaded freely as Adobe Acrobat (.pdf) files that one may read at leisure and share with others by e-mail. Chapter Titles File size (kb) Preface & Table of Contents 22 kb 1. "Jesus of

by S.K. Balasubraamaniam which appeared in The Observer of Business and Politics, New Delhi , on 16 April 1994 shows in brief how revealed religions fatten on other faiths which they destroy eventually. Revealed religions deal with contrary theological beliefs either by expelling them as heresies or assimilating them into their

own doctrines. Revelations, to be valid, have to be original. Otherwise every growing child can claim its new experiences as divinely ordained inspiration. In revealed religions, like Christianity and Islam, there is no scope for dissent as the final word is contained in the revelation itself. But such claims have to be treated as spurious in the absence of originality. St Paul was a Jew named Saul who changed the ‘S’ in his name to ‘P’ on conversion. He had a greater aversion to Judaism than St Peter, another apostle, who wanted Christianity to develop as a reformation of Judaism. But Paul had greater ambitions and felt that circumcision and Sunday, August 29, 2004the Jewish injunction against pork would be inconvenient to the Romans and abolished both. Thus Christianity became a proselytising religion but in the process it had to absorb Roman paganism, finally emerging as a Roman religion in Hebrew clothing. Islam faced other difficulties. According to Max Mueller, Mohammed negotiated with the Jews for recognition as one of their prophets. By then the Jews were weary of prophets

and, realising the dangerous portents of a new prophet, rejected his claims. Mohammed started a new religion incorporating all the Jewish features including circumcision and the dietary inhibitions. According to the same author, he also developed a summary method of dealing with dissent. Under a hopeless siege by 3,000 Meccan soldiers in Medina , he reached an agreement with them and got them to disarm in good faith. Overnight he changed his mind under ‘divine command’ and ordered the massacre of all the unarmed opponents. Such behaviour by either Bill Clinton or Yitzhak Rabin would be condemend by today’s Muslims as perfidy but became the standard for dealing with heresies in Islam as exemplified by the Iranian fatwa against Rushdie. Given such peremptory and raw treatment, Zorastrianism withered away in Iran though some 3 million ‘pseudo-Zorastrians’ had recently surfaced in Tadjikistan professing

interest in reviving their ancestral faith in that Central Asian country. Islamic variants, like the Ahmedi and Ismaili faiths, considered heretic by the orthodoxy, could sprout and survive only under the tolerant conditions of a predominantly Hindu India. Christianity, on the other hand, developed schizoid features. The Jewish God, though totally demanding in obedience, was structurally ill-defined. A vague cloud or a moving pillar of fire could be inspiring but could not be a subject for rational

debate. The Greek ‘pagans’, like Plato and Aristotle, on the other hand, had developed visions of God(s) and the heavens which were detailed and intellectually stimulating. Christianity eagerly absorbed these concepts and the conflicts, inherent in the amalgamation of the much-derided paganism and the Jewish monotheism, gave rise to the heresies in Christianity which suffered from the typical symptoms of the ‘Mahesh Bhatt syndrome’. Faced with a self-effacing Muslim mother ready to submerge her identity for the sake of her children and husband, and an affectionate Brahmin father who conferred on him all the patronymic benefits, Bhatt lost his sense of identity in a welter of conflicting religious connotations and suffered an all-consuming rage within himself which led to a mental breakdown. Psychiatry and some gurus pulled him out of the morass but still left him cold and unreconciled to the conventions of the family and the society. Likewise, Christianity too became an

angry religion and turned to indiscriminate populism. R.K. Narayan portrays the curse-laden European missionaries in India with a delightful sense of humour. Gnosis, the first midway house between the Christian and Pagan religions, was also the first to be rejected as a heresy in later times. It considered Jewish exclusiveness as below the Greek dignity. The sensible world was considered as the creation of a minor Greek deity called Ialdabaoth who was identified as the Jewish Yahweh. The serpent was not wicked in this view for it warned Eve against the deceptions of Yahweh. Jesus was considered a man in whom the Son of God resided temporarily to exorcise

Yahweh. When Christianity acquired government patronage in the time of Constantine , it turned against the Gnostic teachings and declared them heretical. Origen was a neoplatonic philosopher who attempted to systematise and blend the theologies of paganism and Christianity. He believed in the pre-existence of Plato’s souls and considered Christ as human before he became a divine incarnation. Origen also maintained that the pure reasoning of the Greek philosophers could blend easily with Christian dogmas. Though he is accepted as one of the Christian Fathers, his doctrines were vehemently opposed by St Jerome and

later denounced as her- esy. Origen also demanded that the new religion should not take part in political governance of any state. This doctrine was re- jected at the time Constantine converted when Christianity got royal support and more importantly, the army’s approval. Arians considered Jesus, the Son, as a creation of God and hence inferior to the Father. The view accorded well with the opinion that Christian Trinity was an adaptation of the Augustan triumvirate. The concept of differential divinity for the Son and Father was rejected by the council at Nicoea in AD 325. The controversy divided Christianity into three factions: the Byzantian, the Egyptian and the Syrian.

During the rule of Emperor Theodosius the Catholic rejection of Arianism finally prevailed but weakened the affiliation of Egypt and Syria which quietly succumbed to Islamic invasion. The internal schism in Christianity was responsible for the Islamic dominance in the region. During the same period a synagogue was burnt at the alleged instigation of a local Bishop. St Ambrose intervened on behalf of the Bishop with the king and a pattern was set for Christian anti-semitism. The Saint recalled a divine precedent in his favour: “Have you not heard, Oh! Emperor! How, when Julian (the apostate King) commanded

that the Temple of Jerusalem should be restored, those who were clearing the rubbish were consumed by fire.” The Saint’s deduction was that the destruction of a synagogue was divinely ordained and hence not punishable by an earthly monarch. No wonder the Portuguese in India and the Spaniards in South America indulged in historical vandalism against the local peoples. St. Augustine

attempted to purge the Greek elements from Christian theology. God was envisioned as a creator of the world out of nothing, according to Christian theology, which was held impossible by the Greeks. Greek philosophy led to Pantheism which held that every- thing is part of God, a concept to which Christian mystic were greatly attracted. Throughout the Christian era the mystics were always on the verge of heresy essentially because Christianity denied any individual experience outside the scriptural prescriptions. Pelagius questioned the doctrine of Original Sin and believed in the role of Free Will in moral choice. This heresy was energetically denounced by St Augustine who held that “All who died unbaptised including infants, go to hell.” As we are otherwise totally depraved, we cannot complain. According to the Saint, “Damnation proves God’s justice; salvation his mercy.” Bertrand Russell comments: “Seeing that these were the preoccupations handed over to the converted barbarians it is no wonder that the succeeding age surpassed all other fully historical periods in cruelty and superstition.” “The year 1000 may be conveniently taken as marking the end of the lowest depth to which Western Europe sank.” It is sad to note that religious dogma had played a major role in this degradation. The Gospels are the First Nazi Manifesto Apart from the various other features in which Adolf Hitler reincarnated Jesus Christ, the Holocaust in which millions of Jews were slaughtered in various ways was directly inspired by the Jesus of the gospels. The Jews had been denounced by him as snakes, as a brood of vipers, as sons of the Devil, as killers of prophets, as an adulterous nation, and as permanent enemies of his church simply because they refused to acclaim him as the Messiah. The Christian theology that followed, stamped them with a permanent guilt — they were killers of Christ. The Jews had been reduced to non-citizens, and subjugated to repeated pogroms all over Christianised Europe and throughout the centuries. Muhammad had also done the same after he failed to persuade the Jews to accept his claim of prophethood. He had massacred the Jews of Medina and his Muslims had followed the precedent wherever Islam prevailed. No one, however, had worked out the message of the gospels

systematically, and blueprinted the final solution before Hitler arrived on the scene. Human emotions other than religious fanaticism had intervened frequently in favour of the Jews. In short, no one before Hitler had grasped completely the verdict passed on the Jews by the Jesus of the gospels. Small wonder that serious thinkers in the West came to look at the gospels as the First Nazi Manifesto. Christian historians are now making herculean efforts to salvage the Jesus of the gospels from the history he has created. They are blaming on "non-Christian elements and forces" all brutalities committed by Christian churches and missions in Europe and elsewhere, and presenting Jesus as an embodiment of humility, charity, compassion, and

peace. They are saying that the spread of Western imperialism and Christianity at the same time, was a mere coincidence, and that the purposes of the two should be perceived separately. But there are few serious historians who to this cult of "the disentangled Christ". For most of them, the inspiration for crimes committed by Western imperialism in league with Christian missions, came from the Jesus of the gospels. James Morris put it bluntly when he said that "every aspect of the Empire was an aspect of Christ". All in all, therefore, by the middle of the twentieth century the Jesus of the gospels had become a thoroughly discredited figure in the modern West, and could hardly he presented as the Christ of Faith. Christian

theology had to overcome yet another crisis, and save whatever could he saved of its tattered mantle. It was at this point that Rudolf Bultmann of the University of Marburg in Germany came forward with his "defiant manifesto on faith's independence of the historians' labours".14 As he is supposed to be the greatest theologian of the twentieth century, I shall present him at some length. 14. James P.

Mackey, op. cit., p. 11. See the complete article “The Hill of Thomas” on The Hindu website Swami Devananda (Ishwar Sharan) interview of August 26, 2001 (revised January 26, 2003 ) 1. Can you tell me a little about your background? How long have you been in India ? What prompted you to become a monk? I was brought up in the foothills of western Canada . My family was middle class and God-fearing and I was fed from birth on the strong meat

of the Old Testament prophets. But in my early teens it was discovered that I did not love Jesus and was not afraid of Jehovah. I was excommunicated from my father’s small Protestant church. It was a very liberating experience and I left home soon afterward. I began to read Buddhism and existential philosophy. Perhaps as a legacy of my early years, I retained an avid interest in Christian history. I read Gore Vidal’s book Julian about the last pagan emperor of Rome . Julian became my hero along with Alexander the Great. Julian was the great ascetic and Alexander the great king and

traveler. I followed in Alexander’s footsteps, visiting as nearly as possible every place that he had visited. I reached India in 1967 and immediately fell in love with Hindu civilization. It is the best civilization of the Great Mother Goddess. She is called Asherah in the Bible and the prophets are always cursing Her. As a small child I had seen Her once in a garden, and later I had read about Her in the Golden Bough. She has always cared for me, and like the great guru Shankara I believe that She is the liberator of man and the revealer of truth. I became a sannyasi because of Her. It is a sacrifice of love that I am still trying to perfect. 2. What was your objective in writing The Myth of Saint Thomas and the Mylapore Shiva Temple ? You are quite critical of the Christian establishment and their fellow travelers in the Indian media. Most historians will tell you that

St. Peter never went to Rome and did not establish a Christian church there. Yet the very authority of the papacy rests on this fiction and most educated people accept their claim. I was interested in the Indian parallel, in seeing what the historians had to say about the coming of St. Thomas to India and his establishing a church in Kerala. I soon discovered that the most reputed historians of Christianity including Eusebius, von Harnack, de Tillemont, Latourette, Winternitz and. Bishop Stephen Neill, all denied the coming of St. Thomas to India . Some denied his

very existence. In writing The Myth of Saint Thomas and the Mylapore Shiva Temple (which I did under the ‘secular’ pen name Ishwar Sharan), I also wanted to show that there was a carefully orchestrated cover-up in the Indian English-language media regarding the St. Thomas story. Indeed, even after two editions of the book, The Indian Express and The New Indian Express remain the main purveyors of the fable through editorials and their columnists A.J. Philip and Renuka Narayanan. Little leftist magazines like The Indian Review of Books, edited by the St. Thomas advocate S. Muthiah, also put in a good word for St.

Thomas when the opportunity arises. This is their unprofessional response to the exposure of a fraud that does not serve their financial interests. Yet in writing the book and giving the source material for the legend, the 3rd century Syrian religious romance called the Acts of Thomas, my sincere hope was that Indian scholars would take up the study of the legend seriously. But this has not happened. Indian historians with their Marxist bent of mind are not willing to touch it. They are afraid for their tenures and their politically correct professional

reputations. For the English-language newspaper editors, all of them brown sahibs with brown noses, the St. Thomas fable is a useful stick to bash Hindus with when the occasion arises, as the story is a vicious blood libel against the Hindu community. 3. You allege that there is, in effect, a conspiracy of silence to hide a lot of uncomfortable facts about Christianity in India. Why? The establishment of the Christian church in India was intrinsically part of the European colonial enterprise. Its history is shocking for its violence and duplicity. Read the letters of St. Francis Xavier or the diary of Ananda Ranga Pillai. The Indian church today is not so much different from the original 17th century church. It is very wealthy and corrupt and politically ambitious. But it has learned the propaganda value of social service and is making a

great effort to disassociate itself from its colonial origins. This involves a lot of deceit, of course, and a massive cover-up of past deeds. But as the late Archbishop Arulappa of Madras would say, the end justifies the means — even if that is not exactly what Jesus taught. The Christian church uses the St. Thomas legend to claim a 1st century origin for Christianity in India . It also claims St. Thomas to be a martyr at the hands of a wicked Hindu priest and

king. Better still, Christianity becomes the ‘original’ Indian religion, as it would be older than many of the sectarian Hindu cults practiced in the country today. The whole idea is a gross perversion of truth and a grave injustice to the Hindu community that has offered refuge to persecuted Christian refugees down through the ages. It is Hindus who have been martyred by these same Christian refugees starting in the 8th and 9th centuries when Syrian and Persian immigrants in Malabar destroyed temples to build their St. Thomas churches. It is Hindus who were martyred in Goa by Catholic inquisitors and in Madras by Jesuit, Franciscan, and Dominican priests who operated under the protection of the Portuguese. And it is Hindus who are martyred today by the Christian churches and the secular press who support them, including the BBC—all of whom have mounted a base campaign of vilification and calumny against Hindu religion and society. 4. You make the startling revelation that the fondly believed story of St. Thomas, an apostle of

Christ, coming to India and establishing an Indian church, is a convenient fiction. What was the original rationale for this story? Who propagated it? What has been the consequence? The original rationale for the St. Thomas story was to give the first 4th century Christian immigrants in Malabar a local patron saint. The story also gave them caste status that was important in integrating them into Hindu society. There is nothing unusual in a refugee community creating this kind of mythology of identity and it is part of the process of getting established in a new land.

The St. Thomas legend, which they brought with them from Syria , was easy enough to adapt to India . St. Thomas was already the patron saint of “ India ”, “ India ” being not the subcontinent that we know but a synonym for Asia and all those lands that lay east of the Roman Empire ’s borders. ‘ India ’ even included Egypt and Ethiopia in some geographies, and China and Japan in others. The Syrian Christian refugees had been led to India by a merchant who is known to history as Thomas of Cana, i.e. Canaan, but is also known as Thomas of Jerusalem . Over time it was natural enough for the Syrian Christian community to identify their 1st century patron saint Thomas the Apostle with their 4th century leader Thomas of Cana . As a result of this process it is now mistakenly accepted by most educated Indians that St. Thomas came to India in 52 CE and established a Christian church at Cranganore in Kerala. 5. The great Kapaleeswar Temple in Mylapore, Madras, was demolished, according to you, and that is where the San Thome Cathedral now stands. This is news to many people who believe temple demolition was largely a Muslim act. The evidence for the demolition of the original Kapaleeswar Temple is according to a variety of sources including government records and archaeological reports. There is the presence of temple rubble in the San Thome Cathedral walls and in the grounds of Bishop’s House (removed since my book’s publication) . The news of the demolition of the original temple was not news to anybody of a past generation and was discussed in the Madras newspapers during British times. The origins

of the present Kapaleeswar Temple are recorded and directly reflect and confirm the destruction of the original temple. It is true that Hindus do not associate temple breaking with Christians. That is due to the success of the historical cover-up of which the ASI and the state archaeological departments are partly responsible. But we in the West know better

about Christian history and have access to a vast stock of published material that is not usually available in India . We know that every great pagan temple in Europe and the Mediterranean basin was destroyed and replaced with a church after Christianity gained political ascendancy in the Roman Empire . We also know that it is not any different in India today where Christian missionaries hold sway in remote tribal areas) because we have seen the evidence. In Central India, Orissa, the Northeast, even Arunachal

Pradesh and Nepal where missionaries cannot officially operate, village temples are demolished and sacred images broken by new converts. The video films of these “good works” are then shown on TV in Europe where missionaries go to collect funds for their evangelizing effort. Temple breaking in India seems to have originated in the 8th or 9th century with Nestorian Christian immigrants from Persia . They built churches on the temple foundations and then attributed the temple breaking to St. Thomas himself by claiming he built the churches in the 1st century. Franciscan, Dominican, and Jesuit priests destroyed temples in Goa, Malabar, and Tamil Nadu in the 16th century. St. Francis Xavier left a fascinating written record of his temple-breaking work on the Coromandal Coast . The Portuguese entombed the Vel Ilang Kanni Amman Temple near Nagapattinam and turned it into the famous Velankanni church called Our

Lady of Health Basilica. The Jesuits destroyed the Vedapuri Iswaran Temple in Pondicherry and the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception now sits on the site. The list is very long. Christians were destroying temples long before the Muslims got into the act. 6. I have heard some Christians say that they believe that the Bhakti movement in Tamil lands was influenced by Christian ideas of a personal god. How do you respond? Christian missionaries and Marxist intellectuals have a mantra: There is nothing Hindu in Hindustan and nothing Indian in India . According to them everything of value in Indian civilization came from outside, from someplace beyond the pale of Sindh. They are aware of the Hindu’s low self-esteem and seek to undermine it further. Be that as it may. Devotion to a personal god is there in the Rig

Veda itself: “Oh, Agni, be easy of access to us, as a father to a son.” Dr. Pandharinath Prabhu tells us in his much-acclaimed book Hindu Social Organisation that the very term bhakti first appears in the Svetasvataropanisha d. Bhakti is there in the Puranas and finds its best expression in the Bhagavad Gita; a better expression, I must say, than is found anywhere in the Bible. Tamil bhakti has its roots in the Tirumantiram, ca. 200 BCE. So there is no influence from Christianity at all. But even if it was true that Christianity influenced Hindu concepts of a personal god, what do Christians gain by making such a claim? Hindu bhaktas direct their love and devotion to Shiva and Murugan, Vishnu,

Krishna and Rama, not to Jesus. Jesus has failed in India ! And failed and failed and failed again in India ! 7. There appears to be an effort on the part of certain Christian groups to ‘indianize’ the church: for instance, they have created a cult of the Infant Jesus to compete with the worship of the Baby Krishna , and a cult of the Madonna to compete with the worship of the Mother Goddess. Is this a genuine effort at cultural

synthesis? The Pope has made it absolutely clear in the Vatican document called Dominus Jesus that enculturation and indigenization are the means by which the Indian heathen is to be evangelized. Enculturation is not an effort at cultural synthesis but a means of conversion. Its object is to undermine the integrity of Hindu religion and culture and subsume it into Christianity. It is a tried and true method. It is by this method that Christian

missionaries starting with St. Paul undermined Greek and Roman religion and culture and. took it over for themselves. Christianity is a simple personality cult with an elitist ideology. It can be insinuated into any open society. It is parasitical in nature and feeds on the spiritual and cultural body of the society it invades. In the process it destroys the invaded culture and absorbs it into itself. This is what happened in Pagan Europe . Hindus do not understand this process because Hinduism is spiritually self-sufficient and does not require outside nourishment. At the same time Hindus are flattered by the attention given to their religion and culture by Christian operators and are vulnerable to their overtures. See my dialogue with Fr. Bede Giffiths in Sita Ram Goel’s book Catholic Ashrams concerning this important subject. 8. Some Christians have written to me quoting various Sanskrit texts to 'prove'

that they foreshadow the arrival of Jesus Christ. What do you think of this? Prophecy is the last refuge of the religious scoundrel and unfortunately the Indian missionary community is made up entirely of scoundrels. They can find and foreshadow whatever they like in scripture (be it Hindu, Muslim or Christian) because of scripture’s obscure language and context and the poet’s use of allegory and metaphor. For example, Bible scholars know that the Old Testament “prophesies” concerning Jesus’ birth are forced contrivances of interpretation and editing used to give Jesus divine legitimacy and. royal linage. They know that these prophecies are false but because they appeal to the believer’s imagination and reason and help

inculcate faith in Jesus, they continue to be quoted as divinely inspired and true. In India a favorite method of foreshadowing from Vedic texts is closely related to the enculturation process. Christian preachers simply appropriate the meaning of Sanskrit terms and claim them for Jesus. They argue in a round about way that terms like Isa, Ishwara and Parameswara only ever referred to Jesus in the first place! I have got letters from Baptist converts who claim that Prajapati is really Jehovah! If Christian missionaries want to find Jesus in the Veda and Christ in India they can do so with the help of clever and amoral scholars like Fr. Raimundo Panikker. He and they should carefully consider that these “inspired” claims, and, indeed, the inducement to convert by means of these claims is a sin against the Holy Spirit. According to their own doctrine, there is no forgiveness for a sin against the Holy Spirit. But the real problem is not that Christian religious entrepreneurs invent prophecies and manipulate the meaning of Sanskrit texts, the real problem is that Hindus accept their claims at face value and do not know how to reply. People who follow prophets invariably become idolaters of The Word. They believe that the prophet’s word is divine word, that a man’s word is God’s word. It is the worst kind of idolatry and leads to the religious fundamentalism and violence that we are witness to today throughout the world. 9. If you criticize Christians in any way, their immediate response is. “We are a tiny minority of two per cent of India ’s population, and see how much social work we are doing.” How do you respond to this? The question of numbers of population, which for Christians is something like three per cent, is very misleading. Not long ago India ’s millions were ruled by a cadre of 30,000 Christian foreigners. It is not a question of numbers but of institutional wealth and influence, of organization, political ambition and high ideological motivation, and, especially, of undue control of institutions like education and health care that counts.

And then there are the special constitutional privileges for minorities that make Hindus second-class citizens in their own land, and the uncritical sympathy for all things Christian in the English-language press. It is an absurd situation. No country in the world allows a minority community to dictate to the majority the way India does, or to allow a foreign-trained minority community to proselytize in a society that has never proselytized and cannot protect itself against the psychological and emotional assault and material inducements that go with proselytisation. No country in the world would allow virtually unchecked the foreign money and expertise that flows into the

Indian churches, much of it under the guise of social aid, when the bigoted leaders of these churches have declared over and over again that they intend the religious and spiritual annihilation of the Hindu community. 10. There is a shadowy group called Opus Dei that is supposed to be doing significant theoretical work to help spread Christianity around the world. I believe the well-known Indian-Spanish Jesuit priest Raimundo Panikker is associated with them. What do you know about them? Opus Dei is everywhere but nobody really knows anything about them except their Vatican banker and the Pope who is their special advocate and patron. They are an authoritarian secret society with members in such places as the CIA and MI5. I am inclined to doubt that they would employ a theologian like Fr. Raimundo Panikker because he is a married priest and they are advocates of strict church discipline. Their fronts in India (and other developing countries) are scholars associations, history conferences, Hindu-Christian dialogue seminars, certain NGOs and aid agencies (all missionary outfits use NGOs and aid agencies as cover for their proselytizing activities), some Western embassies and the

English-language media. Opus Dei is especially interested in creating favorable public opinion for the Catholic Church and has infiltrated every major English-language daily. Read the op-ed page and letters column in any big city newspaper and you will probably find the handwork of Opus Dei. They want to manipulate and control public opinion. They would never employ a venomous journalist like A.J. Philip but soft columnists like Renuka Narayanan are definitely on their list of honorary lady Jesuits. 11. Arun Shourie and other scholars have detailed the on-going assault on Hinduism by Christians from British times. Do you see this clash of civilizations abating any time soon? The clash of civilizations will continue, indeed, will become more pronounced, unless Christianity and Islam give up their religious bigotry and worid-conquering ambitions. This is very unlikely as bigotry and religious imperialism are inherent within their belief systems. These systems have to be reformed, but cannot be reformed because their adherents believe that they are the work of Gods of divine revelation.

As the systems cannot be changed, the adherents of the systems have to be weaned away from them. This has happened in Europe and, to a lesser extent in America where Christianity has been abandoned for a rational humanism and Vedantic spirituality. But it has riot happened in the Islamic and Marxist worlds of Asia and will not happen without a war. 12. In your book Koenraad Elst quotes the fact that the place where Jesus is alleged to have been crucified was “divined” by Emperor Constantine’s mother in a dream. What similar stories do you find in Christian mythology in India ? In the 4th century when Christianity gained political clout in the Roman court, the Emperor’s mother Helena “divined” various sites in Palestine which, she claimed, were associated with the life and death of Jesus. These sites already had old Roman temples sitting on them. Nevertheless, in

Bethlehem the Church of the Nativity was built on the ruins of a demolished Adonis temple and in Jerusalem the Church of the Holy Sepulcher was built over a Venus temple that had been destroyed on Constantine ’s personal order. See Joan Taylor’s book Christians and the Holy Places. The parallel in India is the identification of various temple sites in Kerala with St. Thomas and the

building of churches on them by Christian immigrants from Persia in the 9th century. Nestorian Christian missionaries were active on the West Coast and up into Kashmir and Ladakh in the 9th and 10th centuries, and it is they who left crosses carved on rocks and various Christian signs and symbols that later European writers of historical fiction have associated with a life of Jesus in Kashmir. In the 16th century the Portuguese “divined” various sites in Madras at Mylapore. Saidapet, and Big Mount (now known as St. Thomas Mount) that they claimed were associated with the martyrdom and burial of St. Thomas . The temples that occupied these sites, including the original Kapaleeswar Temple referred to in the hymns of Jnanasambandar and Arunagirinathar, were demolished and churches built on their ruins. 13. There is a certain school of thought that says Jesus Christ came to India and that a lot of what he taught is based on Hindu and Buddhist ideas. Comments? The idea that Jesus came to India as a boy and studied in a Buddhist monastery or, alternatively, came to India after the crucifixion and married a princess of Kashmir, tickles the romantic imagination of Western travelers and quite a few Indiana too. The story originates in a clever piece of fiction by the Russian forger Nicholas Notovich that was published in Paris in 1894. It cannot possibly be true, and if it is true it destroys completely the special claims made by Christian doctrine, of the sacrifice made on the cross and the resurrection, and the vicarious salvation of the Christian believer. The Buddhist monastery where Jesus is said to have studied did not exist until the 16th century, and the Srinagar tomb where he is allegedly buried is really the tomb of a Mogul ambassador to Egypt who converted to Christianity while on tour there. The key to unraveling the tale is to study the activities of the 10th century Nestorian Christian missionaries who passed through Kashmir on their way to China and left crosses on rocks and an abundance of children with biblical names in their wake. The Hindu and Buddhist ideas found in the New Testament books, including the Sermon on the Mount, were picked up by the gospel writers in Alexandria from Indian pundits and monks who were teaching there. But it should be remembered that the New Testament books contain ideas quite the opposite of Hindu ideas of pluralism and tolerance. For example, there is the virulent anti-Semitism and religious bigotry of the

gospels. Jesus was perhaps the first religious teacher in history to threaten his critics with eternal damnation. 14. There is another school of thought that says Jesus Christ did not actually exist and that the legends about him are a collection of stories about several other leaders and teachers of the time. Comments? It is quite true that the New Testament books as we know them today are composite works edited and rewritten a number of times after the 4th century Council of Nicea. Christian doctrine was formalized as this council and Jesus was raised from mortal prophet to immortal God by a vote of the collected bishops. (Two bishops from Libya voted against deification and were soon murdered by their colleagues.) Some years after the Council, Emperor Constantine sanctioned and financed a new edition of the Bible. As there were no original documents to work from (they had been destroyed by Emperor Diocletian), the bishops were free to edit, revise, and rewrite the Bible according to their own tenets. (The Old Testament books are also compiled from many sources and they are not a true history of the Jewish people.) The result of all this 4th century religious activity is that the Pauline salvation cult that we know today as Christianity came into being. It was modeled on earlier Greek salvation cults except that Jesus replaced Apollo as the saving god. The famous Sermon on the Mount that so appealed to Mahatma Gandhi, is a later literary interpolation from a Pagan source. It may even be of Indian origin. The Jesus of the Bible is a literary creation not a real historical person, though it is probable that his character was modeled on that of a real person, say, the Teacher of Righteousness of the Essenes of the Dead Sea. The evidence of the Dead Sea Scrolls, dated 100-200 BCE, bears out the fact that there is nothing new or true in Christianity. The Catholic Church has for decades tried to suppress the evidence of the Scrolls as they virtually prove that there was no

historical Jesus as depicted in the New Testament stories. I do not think that St. Paul believed in a historical Jesus either, which is why he preached a Christ of faith rather than a Jesus of history. The term 'christ' is a Greek title not a proper name. It can be used as an appellation for any person so deserving and there were many christs in the Roman world of the 1st century CE. St. Paul is the true founder of the Christian religion. He was a Gnostic and a very forceful character who has left his imprint on all aspects of Christianity. Does Jesus exist? Yes, indeed, he does. He exists in the romantic imagination of every Christian believer (and not a few Hindus too). He is a dark knight of the soul, an asuric being not a human being. 15. If Jesus did not really exist, how does that affect the organized church and its shibbohths? Christianity is not going to collapse just because it has been discovered that Jesus was not torn of a virgin mother (as a recent BBC programme declares), did not die on the cross for our sins, and did not bodily rise to heaven on the third day to sit at the right hand of God. People believe what they want to believe, and, more important, what they are taught to believe as children. The Pope or any dictator will tell

you in private that there are not many people in this world who are willing or able to think for themselves, and those few who do are to be eliminated (like the courageous Giordano Bruno who we burned at the stake for teaching that the universe was infinite). It is not a question of seeking truth, as the naive Hindu pilgrim seems to think, but of ideological indoctrination, of repeating the shibboleths over and over again until the believer is “saved”. But salvation theories aside (and Marxism is also a salvation theory), there is the more important business of Big

Business. The Christian churches are Big Business. They employ hundreds of thousands of people who are otherwise unemployable. They are important cultural and political institutions. The Vatican itself is Europe ’s most famous circus and the Pope her best-loved clown. More importantly, the churches, and especially

the Orthodox, Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, and Baptist varieties, are important international financial institutions. They hold all, the ready capital, not only in souls but also in dollars. They are not going to disappear just because their doctrines have been proved false and their god has been found to have feet of clay. 16. There have been recent admissions from the Vatican itself about nuns being raped and sometimes murdered by missionaries and priests. Similarly, there was a startling expose in the Kansas City

Star about the rate of AIDS among Catholic priests in the US being four times the national average. Does this imply that the system of celibate nuns and monks is not quite working? Incidentally, these reports died quiet deaths in the Indian Press whereas they regularly jump all over allegations of misconduct by Hindu sadhus and saints. Sodomy, incest, the abuse of nuns and the molestation of children have been endemic in the Christian church from its very origins. Read the fascinating book A Testament of

Christian Civilization by the famous Jesuit-ex-Jesuit historian Joseph McCabe. He was a linguist and had access to documents that are never published in Christian histories. He records the extraordinary sexual, license among ecclesiastics from the first centuries of Christianity up to the 1950s. At the various church councils where the Christian creed was formulated, the bishops would quarrel over doctrine during the day and dancing boys during the night. More shocking than the sex was the violence and cruelty that went with it, which found its high point in the

Inquisition. This institution was run by Dominican monks and was an orgy of sadism and unspeakable cruelty. It was introduced into India by St. Francis Xavier, whose tomb sits on the site of Old Goa ’s most important Shiva temple. In the medieval period in Europe , convents became high-class brothels and their bishops forbade priests to live with their mothers and sisters because of the moral dangers involved. The then pope introduced a rule of chastity for priests and nuns but it was never taken very seriously. Today there are thousands of priests involved in various kinds of sexual

relationships and thousands more who seek to be relieved of their vow so that they can marry. Abuse of children in church-run institutions has become rampant and recently in Canada a major Protestant church has gone bankrupt paying the lawsuits brought against it by hundreds of victims who were sexually molested in church boarding schools. All of this is not very surprising to those who have read history and know the moral rot that has always existed within the Christian church even at its highest echelons. After all, it was not very long ago that the Pope was collecting a tax from the lepers and prostitutes who operated in St. Peter’s Square. Of course, the great irony in this sad state of affairs is that in Christian doctrine sex is a sin, indeed, it is the original sin invented by woman to bring about the downfall of man. In fact it has brought about the downfall of the Christian churches. They have tried to deny this state of moral debasement but modern human rights and instant exposure in the Western media do not allow the deceit to continue except in India . In India the churches are protected from scandal by state authorities,

minority commissions and the English-language press. If the allegedly impartial editors of our national newspapers and news magazines spent as much time at the local convent or seminary or church-run boy’s school as they do at the ashrams of Premananda and Satya Sai Baba, they would get a story much more satisfying of their prurient interests. All of these editors are sewer inspectors at heart but they will not touch a Christian sewer with a barge pole. Such is the power of the Christian church in India and the overt bias of the national English-language press. The Christian church in India is still an 18th century colonial church financed from abroad. It has a sophisticated international support system in place (and this is especially true of the newer American evangelical churches). It is very arrogant and corrupt, a quasi-independent state that is coddled and pampered by the Indian government and media alike. It is answerable to nobody, which is reason enough for a responsible government to order a white paper investigation into its finances and activities. Calumny and more calumny is the Church’s current weapon of choice and all of the bad press India and Hindus get in Europe and America originates in bishop’s houses, church councils and the offices of Christian NGOs in India. Their “authoritative” and “secular” views are picked up by an accommodating English-language press and broadcast abroad with alacrity. The truth of this observation can be verified by listening to Indian editors and Christian fathers reporting from Delhi and Madras to their English masters in London on the BBC’s various religious programmes and South Asia news services in the morning. It does not enter the heads of these Indian media worthies that the BBC is a neo-colonialist radio network dedicated to the promotion of Christian culture and values and British government foreign policy, and that it does not have a kind word for Hindus or Hinduism or Hindu issues even though Hindus make up a large part of its world audience. (It may be noted that this interview was given to Rajeev Srinivasan with the understanding that it would

be published in his column on the rediff.com web site. However, the editors of this website have not published it allegedly because of my criticism of their col1eagues in the English-language media. They have unwittingly proved my point about the pusillanimity and bias of Indian editors and their inability to tolerate any kind of criticism.) 17. There seems to be a large element of land-grab in the actions of Christians in India . They buy land, get it ceded by the authorities, and then grab the hillsides by painting crosses on rocks and. claiming the area as Christian. The Christian churches are the largest landowners in India after the government. Much of this land is alienated temple land that was given to them by the British in the 19th century. They also own large amounts of prize commercial property in the cities. This fact has become a scandal among many of the Christian faithful who do not feel that their churches should be real estate agents and owners. However, this

reservation is not true of the newer, smaller American churches like Pentecostals and Evangelicals who have mounted a caste war against the Hindus and seek to provoke the Hindu community at every opportunity. They simply grab land in the towns and districts by painting crosses and Christian slogans on stones and hillsides and then claiming the property as their own. This activity is especially evident in Orissa, Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu. In Arunachal Pradesh where proselytizing and conversion are illegal, Christians claim whole villages and put up signboards that say “Non-Christians Not Allowed” at their entrances. These Arunachal converts originate from Mother Teresa’s institutions in Assam where they are indoctrinated and baptized and then sent back to their villages to convert the elders. In Tamil Nadu Christian slogans appear on Hindu pilgrim routes to Tirupati and on the route around Arunachala Hill at Tiruvannamalai that pilgrims circumambulate on full moon days. I am told that Christians plan to raise a cross on the hill’s summit when the opportunity arises. I am not at all surprised. The theoretical ground for this “good deed” has been laid years ago by Catholic theologians and missionaries like Fr. Raimundo Panikker and the Benedictine monk Abhishiktananda. They have already claimed

the holy hill and all of India for Christ in their writings. I myself hope that the cross-raising comes soon. Perhaps then Hindu leaders and district officials will wake up to the threat that an aggressive, proselytizing Christianity poses to Hinduism’s most ancient sacred sites. 18. There are detailed war-game scenarios on the Internet by various Christian fundamentalist groups who have identified India as a soft target for conversion. India is a soft target for the Christian missionary for a number of reasons. Firstly, Hindu society still suffers from many social ills that the missionary can exploit; secondly, Hindu society is by nature pluralistic and accommodating of all ideological views including those that would destroy it; and thirdly, Hindu society is divided against itself and its religious and political leaders have failed it totally. These

leaders with few exceptions are not willing or able to challenge the ideological forces that would destroy Hindu religion and society. The result is that Christianity and its younger sister Marxism have the ideological upper hand in India today. They have an unhealthy influence on government, education, publishing, the English-language media, and some vital social services. It is a shocking situation for which Hindus themselves are to blame (even if the overall situation is a legacy of British days). The very fact

that Hindu intellectuals and entrepreneurs are not able to publish a national daily newspaper and present their own point of view to the world is sad proof of Sri Aurobindo’s observation that Hindus have lost the power to think. 19. There is the decline of the church, particularly the Catholic Church, in Europe and the Americas . Hence the need to find new recruits to man the barricades in the growing clash of civilizations with Muslims. There is the need to create nuns and priests in Kerala as they provide a lot of menial labour in European convents and

monasteries. Is there a pattern? Is there an element of racial exploitation as well? As this is the last question, I would like to make a digression before replying to it. New converts to Christianity like to tell me, a white foreigner of European descent who has lived among the white Jews of Israel, that Jesus was an Asian and by extension he was therefore an Indian. I am very much amused by this rhetoric. It is so juvenile and simplistic. There is a whole world of difference between Semitic West Asia and Hindu South Asia . To begin with, one is white and the other is brown. But were Jesus born in Asia , Africa or Antarctica (we must assume here that he bad a human birth), he is verily the white man’s god and personifies the white man’s race and values. Look at any statue or painting of him. He has red or brown hair, blue eyes, a Roman nose, and lily-white skin. If you take a peek under his Roman toga you will find that he has been circumcised (a very un-Indian custom except among Muslims who follow a West Asian religious code). Now, it is true that Hindu sadhus had penetrated the Egyptian

desert as early as the 4th century BCE and that Brahmin pundits and Buddhist monks taught at the great university of Alexandria in the first centuries BCE-CE, but their contribution was to Jesus’ philosophy not to his ethnicity and culture. Where then is the Indian Jesus? And who is fooling whom by pretending that Israelite is synonymous with Indian? St. Thomas too had a Roman nose, blue eyes, red hair, and a lily-white skin. He too was circumcised. He was Jesus’ look-alike twin brother according to the Acts of Thomas. He wore a Roman toga and lay at table to eat and drink just

like a Roman aristocrat. All of these facts require some explaining by the local Indian priest if we are to accept him as our own Indian apostle. And I am talking here only about physique and culture, not about the vexatious doctrinal problem of there being TWO only sons of God, Jesus and Judas (for St. Thomas was known as Judas Didymus). Now to your question. Indian priests and nuns are the peasant workers of the Catholic Church. They are welcome in Europe and America to clean the toilets and scrub the floors of the empty convents and seminaries, nurse the sick and dying, present the news in funny English on Vatican Radio, write lengthy dissertations on indiginizing the church in India, and get trained

as native missionaries for work in the jungles and outback. This is the pattern and it has been followed for decades. Indian priests and nuns are numerous and expendable. They are everywhere there is dirty work to be done. They are the first victims of the white man’s most elitist institution. Casteism is rampant. They seldom if ever move up the ecclesiastical ladder if there is a European available to fill the post. There are in South India only two or three Dalit bishops and one of them is an Anglican (CSI). Everybody knows that if a black pope were ever elected (and Indians are black people according to Europeans) the Catholic Church would lose half of its membership. It cannot be otherwise in a European feudal institution whose bishops wrote the first theoretical justification for slavery in the 16th century. After all, the Bible says (1 Peter 2:18 -25); “Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the forward.” I have had more than one Dalit convert tell me that the racism and caste prejudice within the Christian churches is a crime against

humanity. I have to agree. I have to say after a lifetime of study, that the advent of Christianity and its forced establishment in the Roman Empire under the wicked Emperor Constantine is one of the great disasters in the history of mankind. Author's correspondence with the Vatican regarding St. Thomas in India To:The PrefectSacred Congregation of RitesVatican City, Italy 26 August 1996 Respected Sir, I am doing research on St. Thomas in India and have learned that your office issued a letter on November 13, 1952 which stated that the landing of St. Thomas at Cranganore in 53

A.D. is unverified. I would like to know if in fact the said letter was issued and, if that is not the case, whether you can confirm that St. Thomas was martyred and buried in Madras . I would be most grateful if you could direct me to any authentic evidence supporting the story of St. Thomas in India . Thanking you, Yours sincerely, Ishwar Sharan Reply from: This Congregation for the Causes of Saints has received your letter of 26th August last in which you have asked for information regarding Saint Thomas ’ presence in India . We have not found in our Archives the letter supposedly written by this Congregation on 13th November 1952 , of which you speak, because of a lack of more precise data (Diocese, destination, etc.). Nor do we have other data regarding Saint Thomas since

this Archive was begun in 1588. His life is the object of the research of historians which is not the particular competence of this Congregation. Rome , September 11, 1996 . Congregation for the Causes of Saints 10, Piazza Pio XII Rome - 00193 Italy Acknowledgement of correction to Encyclopaedia Britannica entry on " St. Thomas " The Christian legend of Saint Thomas carrying Christianity to India 's southwestern shores and dying there a martyr is being downsized and rewritten in the Encyclopaedia Britannica. Ishwar Sharan, author of The Myth of Saint Thomas and the Mylapore Shiva Temple, successfully demonstrated to the editors of the illustrious reference that the St. Thomas-in-India legend is highly suspect. Sharan pointed out that the legend was created by three Christian scholars with no historical evidence, relying solely on "Thomas romances." Sharan cited another Christian researcher-Bishop Stephen Neill-as a prime debunker of the apocryphal theory. Agreeing to a future revision, an EB representative stated in a letter to Sharan that the Britannica's entry on St. Thomas did indeed "place too much emphasis on the unlikely scenario of his traveling to, and being martyred in India ." - Hinduism Today September 1997 Editor-in-ChiefEncyclopaedia Britannica310 South Michigan AvenueChicago , Illinois 60604 USA Sept. 19, 1996 Dear Sir, This has reference to the article “ St. Thomas ” in the Encyclopaedia Britannica, Fifteenth Edition, 1984. I have been through the source

material for the St. Thomas legend and feel that the Encyclopaedia’ s article is a misleading concoction. It has been written to promote a particular theological view without any regard for the facts available. It names Bishop A.E. Medlycott and Dr. F.A. D’Cruz as references. Yet in his authoritative review of Christianity in India: The Beginnings to 1707 A.D. Bishop Stephen Neill writes, “A number of scholars, among whom are to be mentioned with respect Bishop A.E. Medleycott, J.N. Farquhar and the Jesuit J. Dahlman, have built on slender foundations what can only be called 'Thomas romances', as reflect the vividness of their imaginations rather than the prudence of rigid historical research. I have

located a large number of historians whose respected views agree with those of Bishop Neill. They are collected in my book, The Myth of Saint Thomas and the Mylapore Shiva Temple. I am sending you a copy by registered air mail book post. Kindly acknowledge receipt. With regards, Yours sincerely, Ishwar Sharan Editorial Offices 18 October 1996 Mr.

Ishwar Sharan Dear Mr. Sharan, Please accept our apology for the delay in responding to your letter. We have received your book, and we have subsequently reviewed our coverage of Saint Thomas . While the Saint Thomas article that appears in the

current printing of the Encyclopaedia Britannica differs slightly from the 1984 article to which you refer in your book, the current article does convey the same basic information. We have concluded that the portion of the article that refers to Thomas’ later life places too much emphasis on the unlikely scenario of his traveling to, and being martyred in India . We have referred this information to the appropriate editor so that the article can be revised in future printings of Britannica. We appreciate your bringing this matter to our attention. Sincerely, Anthony G. CraineEditorial Division ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA, INC.310 South Michigan AvenueChicago IL 60604Editorial Offices Stephen Silberman <srs8 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: What we should try to understand is that Sri Krsna and his confidential devotees are always trying to bring the fallen conditioned souls back to Godhead. Sri Krsna appeared as Lord Buddha. Lord Buddha was a nastiq. He denied the Vedas. Does that negate the transcendental mission of Lord Buddha? No, Desa Kala Parta. Time Place and Circumstance.

That is the principal of preaching. What of Sankaracarya? He is considered to be an incarnation of Lord Siva. Is He not worthy of our respect? He is responsible for bringing the residents of Bharata Varsa back to the Vedas after Lord Buddha. He did not preach Devotion to Krsna but he served his purpose. Is He not to be respected? Krsna told Arjuna that all of the soldiers are dead before the battle of Kuruksetra even took place. Arjuna could preform his duty and "get the credit". So Lord Caintanya's movement is progressing even without us. Try to see the overall principal. Lord Krsna's devotees are spreading Love of Godhead in many ways. Not all is direct. Not all is revealed. Since we have been given the highest Siddhanta, Bhakti Yoga, let us surrender to the Acarya's. If ancillary complementary activities are going on that may not be of the highest order, we should not criticize. We may point out the missing ingredients in such philosophies but we should avoid out right

denial of what good may come of it. A blind uncle is better than no uncle at all. Syamakunda Das drlalithavenkat2002 @Tue, 6 Nov 2007 22:31:14 -0800Re: JESUS TAUGHT BHAKTI-YOGA It is very good. There is no need of support from anyother faiths for Sanathana Dharma. It will stand ofit's own for several millioniums. Hari Om Lalithavenkataraman--- vavamenon <vavamenon > wrote:> HARE KRISHNA !> I FEEL, SOME ONE IS TRYING TO JUSTIFY PRAYING TO> JESUS !> SANATANA DHARMA IS A STAND ALONE PRINCIPLE WITHOUT> THE NEED FOR A CORRUPTION FROM ANY OTHER> PHILOSOPHIES, BECAUSE NONE OF THE OTHER FAITHS TEACH> "THE MOST SCIENTIFIC LAW OF KARMA". ANOTHER REASON> BEING, SEMITIC RELIGIONS HAVE DIVIDED HUMANITY INTO> "WE & THEY" AND TAUGHT TO HATE WHO DO NOT FOLLOW> THEM WITHOUT ASKING QUESTIONS.> IF ALL HIS LIFE MR. STEPHEN KNAAP PROMOTED> SANATANA DHARMA WAS TO FINALLY INSERT

JESUS INTO> BHARATHAM, LET THAT COME FIRST FROM VATICAN DOWN TO> ALL THE SECTS OF CHRISTIANITY TO OPENLY DECLARE THAT> ALL THE SPIRITUAL PATHS LEAD TO THE ONE & ONLY> DIVINE ! > READ BIBLE AND FIND OUT AS TO HOW MANY TIMES JESUS> DECLARED THAT "THROUGH ME ALONE, YOU CAN HAVE> SALVATION / GET INTO HEAVEN", WHICH MEANS THAT EVERY> OTHER WAY IS FALSE ! MAY BE STEPHEN KNAAP DOES NOT> WANT TO ADMIT THE SHORT FALLS IN X'IANITY IN PROVING> MUCH OF SCIENTIFICALLY ACCEPTABLE STATEMENTS. IF> JESUS KNEW MEDITATION, WHY HE DID NOT TEACH THAT TO> HIS DISCIPLES ? IF JESUS KNEW BHAKTI YOGA, WHY HE> DID NOT SPECIFICALLY TEACH THAT AS A SCIENCE TO HIS> DISCIPLES ? HOW MANY QUESTIONS DO YOU WANT

FROM ME> ?> IF ANY ONE NEEDS, THERE ARE MANY SOURCES FROM> CHRISTIAN THEOLOGIANS WHO DOUBT EVEN THE HISTORICITY> OF THE EXISTENCE OF JESUS. TO NAME ONE OR TWO,> PLEASE VISIT www.askwhy.co. uk or> www.jesusneverexist ed.com etc.OR READ THE BOOK "AGE> OF REASON" BY THOMAS PAINE WHO PROVED THAT upto> 1793-94 when the book was written, there were> already 300,000 amendments to the original "WORD OF> GOD" called Bible. How many are going on even now. > Take for instance the hard copy of Bible printed in> 1800 and that printed during the last decade, and go> line by line, and you can find out the AMENDMENT> MANUFACTURING.> It is better to keep discussing the science of> Krishna in this forum which does not need any moral> or ethical or scientific

support from any false> philosophies. I am putting this in without any> prejudice. I have read 5 Books of Bible and Quran> (2 times).> Withbest regards> VM> > > > > karthick k <carthic_k1988@ .co. in> wrote:> JESUS TAUGHT BHAKTI-YOGA> By Stephen Knapp> > Another aspect of understanding the Vedic> teachings in Christianity is to simply look at what> is written regarding the teachings of Jesus. By> studying the teachings that are ascribed to Jesus,> we can easily recognize that the essence of what> Jesus taught was an elementary level of the Vedic> process of bhakti-yoga and karma-yoga. Both of these> systems are much more deeply developed

and> elaborated in the Vedic texts, and more fully> explained by many of India’s acharyas spiritual> masters. > Jesus taught that everyone should love God with> their whole heart and mind, which is the> quintessence of bhakti-yoga. Bhakti means devotion> and surrender to God. As stated in Matthew> (22.36-40): “Master, which is the greatest> commandment in the law? He answered, Love the Lord> thy God with all your heart, with all your soul,> with all your mind. That is the greatest> commandment. It comes first. The second is like it:> Love your neighbor as yourself. Everything in the> Law and the prophets hangs on these two> commandments.” These two rules are the heart of the> processes of bhakti and karma-yoga.> In this way, Jesus taught people the most basic>

portions of God’s law and gave the most simple> commandments, such as, “Thou shalt not kill,” and> “Thou shall not steal,” and so on. These rules deal> only with moral standards. They do not deal with the> higher principles of spiritual discipline or> transcendental realization. This is a sign of the> kind of people Jesus was dealing with. They were> very primitive and had to be taught the most basic> of spiritual knowledge. Obviously, one cannot> comprehend advanced spiritual topics if he or she> does not have any understanding of simple moral> values. Therefore, Jesus was very limited in what he> could teach the people of that era. As Jesus said,> (St. John 16.12-13, 25):> > I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye> cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of> truth, is come,

he will guide you into the truth:> for he shall not speak of himself: but whatsoever he> shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew> you things to come. . . These things have I spoken> unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I> shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I> shall show you plainly of the Father.> Thus, Jesus could not reveal the whole truth to> the people of that era, but promised that there> would be a time when the whole truth would be open> to everyone. But whether the people accept it or not> is another thing. > Jesus also taught that one is judged by his works> and the way they behave. This is also the same> process as found in bhakti and karma-yoga. Without> good works and sincere devotion, one cannot enter> into the kingdom of God. Yet, we find in modern> Christianity an emphasis on faith, not on works. But> this is not upheld in the Bible, as we can see in> this verse: “But wilt thou know, O vain man, that> faith without works is dead.” (James 2.20) Jesus> never said that faith alone was all it took to enter> the promised land. The way one works is a sign of> his faith. And those that do claim allegiance to the> faith and preach in the name of Christ yet do> various duplicitous activities in private are still> bereft of attaining the favor of Christ, as stated> in Matthew (7.21-23): > Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall> enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth> the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will> say to me that day, Lord, Lord, have we not> prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast> out

devils? And in thy name done many wonderful> works? And then will I profess unto them, I never> knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.> This, therefore, is the essence of Jesus’> teachings that, as we can see, include the same> basic principles of bhakti-yoga and karma-yoga> (loving God, upholding God’s law in all our actions,> and doing good for others), which is fully explained> in the Vedic literature. Jesus never presented> anything new or invented, but taught what God had> taught and gave all credit to God, as verified as> follows:> The son can do nothing of himself, but what he> seeth the Father do. (John 5.19). . . When ye have> lifted up the son of man, then shall ye know that I> am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my> Father hath taught me, I speak these things. (John> 8.28). . . I go unto the Father, for my Father is>

greater than I. (John 14.28)> In these verses we have the words of Jesus from> the Bible that explain that he taught only what God> had spoken and was not himself God, but was the son> of God the Father. Furthermore, in Bhagavad-gita> (9.17), Krishna specifically explains that He is the> Father of all living entities, and (Bg.7.6, 10.8) is> the origin of all that is material and spiritual.> Therefore, no contradiction exists in the> understanding that Jesus was a son of God, and> Krishna is the supreme Father and Creator of all. In> this way, we can see that the essence of> Christianity is the basic teachings of the Vedic> philosophy which was developed much earlier and more> deeply than that which is presently found within the> philosophy of Christianity. >

> > Sarvam Krishnarpanam > Aum Tat Sath > ------------ --------- --------- --- Dear Mr. Stephen, Greetings ! I understand your point and also your concern. Devotees of Krishna need not

be introduced to Jesus. In fact, it should be the other way around. Followers of Jesus can follow him as long as they want, but let them not try to convince Bharatheeyans that JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY, as Jesus does NOT FIGURE OR CONTRIBUTE TO THE SCIENCE OF SANATANA DHARMA. And Jesus has not said anything new that has not been said in THE SANATANA DHARMA SCRIPTURES. AND THAT IS ONE MAIN REASON THAT BHARATHEEYANS DO NOT MIND WHATEVER THE FOLLOWERS OF JESUS WANT TO FOLLOW AND THE PERCENTAGE OF X'IANS AND MUSLIMS GET STUCK IN THE MARGINS. BHARATHEEYANS HAVE A POLICY OF "LIVE AND LET LIVE" unlike any other EXCLUSIVE FAITH FOLLOWERS (WHOLESALE AGENCY HOLDERS OF GOD). ONCE THE VATICAN AND ALL OTHER SECTS IN CHURCHIANITY / X'IANITY AND ALSO ISLAM ADMIT THAT ALL PATHS ARE LEADING TO THE DIVINE, WE HAVE NO GRUDGE (WHICH CREATES A "NON-CONVERSION" SITUATION AND ALSO LEADS TO A NON-VIOLENT LIVES.) In the year 2000, Pope declared in Delhi during Diwali that "FIRST MILLENNIUM SAW X'ANITY CAPTURING EUROPE, SECOND MILLENNIUM SAW AMERICA UNDER THE FOOT OF CHURCHIANITY / X'IANITY. LET THE THIRD

MILLENNIUM SEE THAT ASIA AND THE REST OF THE WORLD UNDER POPE." IF THIS IS NOT A CALL FOR AGGRESSION AND AN ASSAULT ON MY FREEDOM OF THOUGHT / WORD AND ACTION, WHAT IS IT ? (AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED, "TO HELL WITH THE POPE AND HIS CALLS. HE IS AS IGNORANT AS ANY OTHER ILLITERATE WHO HAS NOT USED HIS BRAINS AND HE DOES NOT OBSERVE / ANALYSE TRULY FROM WHAT HE SEES. You should be talking to Vatican and not this

FORUM MEMBERS, RESPECTED MR. STEPHEN. With best regards and prayers for PEACE FOR ALL ! vm Stephen Silberman <srs8 (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: What we should try to understand is that Sri Krsna and his confidential devotees are always trying to bring the fallen conditioned souls back to Godhead. Sri Krsna appeared as Lord Buddha. Lord Buddha was a nastiq. He denied the Vedas. Does that negate the transcendental mission of Lord Buddha? No, Desa Kala Parta. Time Place and Circumstance. That is the principal of preaching. What of Sankaracarya? He is considered to be an incarnation of Lord Siva. Is He not worthy of our respect? He is responsible for bringing the residents of Bharata Varsa back to the Vedas after Lord Buddha. He did not preach Devotion to Krsna but he served his purpose. Is He not to be respected? Krsna told Arjuna that all of the soldiers are dead before the battle of Kuruksetra even took place. Arjuna could preform his duty and "get the credit". So Lord Caintanya's movement is progressing

even without us. Try to see the overall principal. Lord Krsna's devotees are spreading Love of Godhead in many ways. Not all is direct. Not all is revealed. Since we have been given the highest Siddhanta, Bhakti Yoga, let us surrender to the Acarya's. If ancillary complementary activities are going on that may not be of the highest order, we should not criticize. We may point out the missing ingredients in such philosophies but we should avoid out right denial of what good may come of it. A blind uncle is better than no uncle at all. Syamakunda Das drlalithavenkat2002 @Tue, 6 Nov 2007 22:31:14 -0800Re: JESUS TAUGHT BHAKTI-YOGA It is very good. There is no need of support from anyother faiths for Sanathana Dharma. It will stand ofit's own for several millioniums. Hari Om Lalithavenkataraman--- vavamenon <vavamenon > wrote:> HARE KRISHNA !> I FEEL, SOME ONE IS TRYING TO JUSTIFY PRAYING TO> JESUS !> SANATANA DHARMA IS A STAND ALONE PRINCIPLE

WITHOUT> THE NEED FOR A CORRUPTION FROM ANY OTHER> PHILOSOPHIES, BECAUSE NONE OF THE OTHER FAITHS TEACH> "THE MOST SCIENTIFIC LAW OF KARMA". ANOTHER REASON> BEING, SEMITIC RELIGIONS HAVE DIVIDED HUMANITY INTO> "WE & THEY" AND TAUGHT TO HATE WHO DO NOT FOLLOW> THEM WITHOUT ASKING QUESTIONS.> IF ALL HIS LIFE MR. STEPHEN KNAAP PROMOTED> SANATANA DHARMA WAS TO FINALLY INSERT JESUS INTO> BHARATHAM, LET THAT COME FIRST FROM VATICAN DOWN TO> ALL THE SECTS OF CHRISTIANITY TO OPENLY DECLARE THAT> ALL THE SPIRITUAL PATHS LEAD TO THE ONE & ONLY> DIVINE ! > READ BIBLE AND FIND OUT AS TO HOW MANY TIMES JESUS> DECLARED THAT "THROUGH ME ALONE, YOU CAN HAVE> SALVATION / GET INTO HEAVEN", WHICH MEANS THAT EVERY> OTHER WAY IS FALSE ! MAY BE STEPHEN KNAAP DOES NOT> WANT TO ADMIT THE

SHORT FALLS IN X'IANITY IN PROVING> MUCH OF SCIENTIFICALLY ACCEPTABLE STATEMENTS. IF> JESUS KNEW MEDITATION, WHY HE DID NOT TEACH THAT TO> HIS DISCIPLES ? IF JESUS KNEW BHAKTI YOGA, WHY HE> DID NOT SPECIFICALLY TEACH THAT AS A SCIENCE TO HIS> DISCIPLES ? HOW MANY QUESTIONS DO YOU WANT FROM ME> ?> IF ANY ONE NEEDS, THERE ARE MANY SOURCES FROM> CHRISTIAN THEOLOGIANS WHO DOUBT EVEN THE HISTORICITY> OF THE EXISTENCE OF JESUS. TO NAME ONE OR TWO,> PLEASE VISIT www.askwhy.co. uk or> www.jesusneverexist ed.com etc.OR READ THE BOOK "AGE> OF REASON" BY THOMAS PAINE WHO PROVED THAT upto> 1793-94 when the book was written, there were> already 300,000 amendments to the original "WORD OF> GOD" called Bible. How many are going on even now. > Take for instance the hard copy of Bible printed in> 1800 and that printed during the last decade, and go> line by line, and you can find out the AMENDMENT> MANUFACTURING.> It is better to keep discussing the science of> Krishna in this forum which does not need any moral> or ethical or scientific support from any false> philosophies. I am putting this in without

any> prejudice. I have read 5 Books of Bible and Quran> (2 times).> Withbest regards> VM> > > WE ARE ALL SONS OF THE ONE AND ONLY DIVINE. HOWEVER, WHY THERE SHOULD BE A DIVISION OF HUMANITY LIKE THAT SEMITIC / ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS DID, AND CLAIM THAT THEIR RELIGIONS ARE THE ONLY TRUE ONES. WHILE MR. STEPHEN KNAAP ADMITS THAT JESUS IS SON OF GOD / KRISHNA (FOR THAT MATTER, WE ALL ARE SONS OF THE “ONE AND ONLY DIVINE”), THEN WHY HE DOES NOT TELL VATICAN AND ALL THOSE PRIEST CLASS TO TEACH THEIR FOLLOWERS TO LOOK FOR THE TRUE FATHER AND NOT THE SON (EVEN THOUGH SON HAS NOT SAID ANYWHERE THAT HE IS SON OF KRISHNA, NOR HAS HE TAUGHT THE ASHTANGA YOGA SHASTRA / VEDA TO ANY ONE OF HIS FOLLOWERS, INSTEAD HE HAS ASKED THEM TO CONVERT THE WHOLE WORLD TO HIS DIVISIVE

PHILOSOPHIES !!!). THE MESSAGE POSTED IN THIS FORUM TRULY IS NOT VALID IN THIS FORUM, UNLESS OUR FRIEND POOJANEEYA SHRI KARTHICK (OR CARTHIC_K – THE NAME ITSELF SOUNDS PHONY TO ME) > karthick k <carthic_k1988@ .co. in> wrote:> JESUS TAUGHT BHAKTI-YOGA> By

Stephen Knapp> > Another aspect of understanding the Vedic> teachings in Christianity is to simply look at what> is written regarding the teachings of Jesus. By> studying the teachings that are ascribed to Jesus,> we can easily recognize that the essence of what> Jesus taught was an elementary level of the Vedic> process of bhakti-yoga and karma-yoga. Both of these> systems are much more deeply developed and> elaborated in the Vedic texts, and more fully> explained by many of India’s acharyas spiritual> masters. > Jesus taught that everyone should love God with> their whole

heart and mind, which is the> quintessence of bhakti-yoga. Bhakti means devotion> and surrender to God. As stated in Matthew> (22.36-40): “Master, which is the greatest> commandment in the law? He answered, Love the Lord> thy God with all your heart, with all your soul,> with all your mind. That is the greatest> commandment. It comes first. The second is like it:> Love your neighbor as yourself. Everything in the> Law and the prophets hangs on these two> commandments.” These two rules are the heart of the> processes of bhakti and karma-yoga.> In this way, Jesus taught people the most basic> portions of God’s law and gave the most simple> commandments, such as, “Thou shalt not kill,” and> “Thou shall not steal,” and so on. These rules deal> only with moral standards. They do not deal with the> higher principles of spiritual discipline or>

transcendental realization. This is a sign of the> kind of people Jesus was dealing with. They were> very primitive and had to be taught the most basic> of spiritual knowledge. Obviously, one cannot> comprehend advanced spiritual topics if he or she> does not have any understanding of simple moral> values. Therefore, Jesus was very limited in what he> could teach the people of that era. As Jesus said,> (St. John 16.12-13, 25):> > I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye> cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of> truth, is come, he will guide you into the truth:> for he shall not speak of himself: but whatsoever he> shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew> you things to come. . . These things have I spoken> unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I> shall no

more speak unto you in proverbs, but I> shall show you plainly of the Father.> Thus, Jesus could not reveal the whole truth to> the people of that era, but promised that there> would be a time when the whole truth would be open> to everyone. But whether the people accept it or not> is another thing. > Jesus also taught that one is judged by his works> and the way they behave. This is also the same> process as found in bhakti and karma-yoga. Without> good works and sincere devotion, one cannot enter> into the kingdom of God. Yet, we find in modern> Christianity an emphasis on faith, not on works. But> this is not upheld in the Bible, as we can see in> this verse: “But wilt thou know, O vain man, that> faith without works is dead.” (James 2.20) Jesus>

never said that faith alone was all it took to enter> the promised land. The way one works is a sign of> his faith. And those that do claim allegiance to the> faith and preach in the name of Christ yet do> various duplicitous activities in private are still> bereft of attaining the favor of Christ, as stated> in Matthew (7.21-23): > Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall> enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth> the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will> say to me that day, Lord, Lord, have we not> prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast> out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful> works? And then will I profess unto them, I never> knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.> This, therefore, is the essence of Jesus’> teachings that, as we can see, include the same> basic principles of bhakti-yoga and

karma-yoga> (loving God, upholding God’s law in all our actions,> and doing good for others), which is fully explained> in the Vedic literature. Jesus never presented> anything new or invented, but taught what God had> taught and gave all credit to God, as verified as> follows:> The son can do nothing of himself, but what he> seeth the Father do. (John 5.19). . . When ye have> lifted up the son of man, then shall ye know that I> am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my> Father hath taught me, I speak these things. (John> 8.28). . . I go unto the Father, for my Father is> greater than I. (John 14.28)> In these verses we have the words of Jesus from> the Bible that explain that he taught only what God> had spoken and was not himself God, but was the son> of God the Father. Furthermore, in Bhagavad-gita>

(9.17), Krishna specifically explains that He is the> Father of all living entities, and (Bg.7.6, 10.8) is> the origin of all that is material and spiritual.> Therefore, no contradiction exists in the> understanding that Jesus was a son of God, and> Krishna is the supreme Father and Creator of all. In> this way, we can see that the essence of> Christianity is the basic teachings of the Vedic> philosophy which was developed much earlier and more> deeply than that which is presently found within the> philosophy of Christianity. > DEAR MR.RAHUL SINHA & ZEE NEWS

TEAM, PRANAM ! THIS IS ONE GOOD NEWS THAT DESERVES TRUE APPRECIATION FROM ALL OF US BHARATHEEYANS. WE DO NOT DOUBT OUR GREAT MAHARISHIS FOR HAVING GIVEN US VEDAS, UPANISHATS, RAMAYANA AND MAHABHARATHA, AND ALL THOSE VAST VOLUMES OF SCRIPTURES, BUT IN THIS SO-CALLED SCIENTIFIC AGE, PROOFS ARE BECOMING A SUPPORT, TO ARREST THE ONSLAUGHT OF ASURIC FAITHS, ORIGINATED FROM HIRANYAKASHIPU AND NOW COPIED BY FEW RELIGIONS. THIS IS ESPECIALLY SIGNIFICANT SINCE THESE ASURIC RELIGIONS ARE FRANTICALLY SEARCHING FOR SOME

ARCHAEOLOGICAL PROOFS TO SUPPORT THE STORIES IN THEIR “SO-CALLED WORDS OF GOD AND UNCHANGEABLE BOOKS CAME DOWN FROM GOD/HEAVEN THROUGH PROPHETS AND ANGELS”. IN FACT ALMOST ALL THE STORIES, FORMAT OF THE BOOKS, ETC. ARE ALL HAVING THE ORIGINS FROM SANATANA DHARMA SCRIPTURES AND THAT IS THE REASON THAT THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO PROVE THE HISTORICITY OF THE STORIES HANDED DOWN TO THEM FOR THE LAST AROUND 2000 YEARS. IT IS HIGH TIME THAT THESE BLIND FAITH FOLLOWERS OPENED UP THEIR “THINKING FACULTIES INSIDE THEM” TO ASK REAL QUESTIONS AND SEEK GOD. WITH BEST REGARDS AND PRAYERS, VM "J. Madhav" <jay_madhav wrote:

Hari Om! I think if you read his message properly, this is exactly what he is trying to prove. However, he dwelled on other Bible details too much and lost his original intent. There should not be too much of discussion on this topic, as you have said it right. SANATANA DHARMA IS A STAND ALONE - Jagdish

- lalitha venkat Tuesday, November 06, 2007 10:31 PM Re: JESUS TAUGHT BHAKTI-YOGA It is very good. There is no need of support from anyother faiths for Sanathana Dharma. It will stand ofit's own for several millioniums. Hari Om Lalithavenkataraman--- vavamenon <vavamenon > wrote:> HARE KRISHNA !> I FEEL, SOME ONE IS TRYING TO JUSTIFY PRAYING TO> JESUS !> SANATANA DHARMA IS A STAND ALONE PRINCIPLE WITHOUT> THE NEED FOR A CORRUPTION FROM ANY OTHER> PHILOSOPHIES, BECAUSE NONE OF THE OTHER FAITHS TEACH> "THE MOST SCIENTIFIC LAW OF KARMA". ANOTHER REASON> BEING, SEMITIC RELIGIONS HAVE DIVIDED HUMANITY INTO> "WE & THEY" AND TAUGHT TO HATE WHO DO NOT FOLLOW> THEM WITHOUT ASKING QUESTIONS.> IF ALL HIS LIFE MR. STEPHEN KNAAP PROMOTED> SANATANA DHARMA WAS TO FINALLY INSERT JESUS INTO> BHARATHAM, LET THAT COME FIRST FROM VATICAN DOWN TO> ALL THE SECTS OF CHRISTIANITY TO OPENLY DECLARE THAT> ALL THE SPIRITUAL PATHS LEAD TO THE ONE & ONLY> DIVINE ! > READ BIBLE AND FIND OUT AS TO HOW MANY TIMES JESUS> DECLARED THAT "THROUGH ME ALONE, YOU CAN

HAVE> SALVATION / GET INTO HEAVEN", WHICH MEANS THAT EVERY> OTHER WAY IS FALSE ! MAY BE STEPHEN KNAAP DOES NOT> WANT TO ADMIT THE SHORT FALLS IN X'IANITY IN PROVING> MUCH OF SCIENTIFICALLY ACCEPTABLE STATEMENTS. IF> JESUS KNEW MEDITATION, WHY HE DID NOT TEACH THAT TO> HIS DISCIPLES ? IF JESUS KNEW BHAKTI YOGA, WHY HE> DID NOT SPECIFICALLY TEACH THAT AS A SCIENCE TO HIS> DISCIPLES ? HOW MANY QUESTIONS DO YOU WANT FROM ME> ?> IF ANY ONE NEEDS, THERE ARE MANY SOURCES FROM> CHRISTIAN THEOLOGIANS WHO DOUBT EVEN THE HISTORICITY> OF THE EXISTENCE OF JESUS. TO NAME ONE OR TWO,> PLEASE VISIT www.askwhy.co.uk or> www.jesusneverexisted.com etc.OR READ THE BOOK "AGE> OF REASON" BY THOMAS PAINE WHO PROVED THAT upto> 1793-94 when the book was written, there were> already 300,000 amendments to the original "WORD OF> GOD" called Bible. How many are going

on even now. > Take for instance the hard copy of Bible printed in> 1800 and that printed during the last decade, and go> line by line, and you can find out the AMENDMENT> MANUFACTURING.> It is better to keep discussing the science of> Krishna in this forum which does not need any moral> or ethical or scientific support from any false> philosophies. I am putting this in without any> prejudice. I have read 5 Books of Bible and Quran> (2 times).> Withbest regards> VM> > > > > karthick k <carthic_k1988 (AT) (DOT) co.in> wrote:> JESUS TAUGHT BHAKTI-YOGA> By Stephen Knapp> > Another aspect of understanding the Vedic> teachings in Christianity is to simply look at what> is written regarding the teachings of Jesus. By> studying the teachings that are

ascribed to Jesus,> we can easily recognize that the essence of what> Jesus taught was an elementary level of the Vedic> process of bhakti-yoga and karma-yoga. Both of these> systems are much more deeply developed and> elaborated in the Vedic texts, and more fully> explained by many of India’s acharyas spiritual> masters. > Jesus taught that everyone should love God with> their whole heart and mind, which is the> quintessence of bhakti-yoga. Bhakti means devotion> and surrender to God. As stated in Matthew> (22.36-40): “Master, which is the greatest> commandment in the law? He answered, Love the Lord> thy God with all your heart, with all your soul,> with all your mind. That is the greatest> commandment. It comes first. The second is like it:> Love your neighbor as yourself. Everything in the> Law and the prophets hangs on these two>

commandments.” These two rules are the heart of the> processes of bhakti and karma-yoga.> In this way, Jesus taught people the most basic> portions of God’s law and gave the most simple> commandments, such as, “Thou shalt not kill,” and> “Thou shall not steal,” and so on. These rules deal> only with moral standards. They do not deal with the> higher principles of spiritual discipline or> transcendental realization. This is a sign of the> kind of people Jesus was dealing with. They were> very primitive and had to be taught the most basic> of spiritual knowledge. Obviously, one cannot> comprehend advanced spiritual topics if he or she> does not have any understanding of simple moral> values. Therefore, Jesus was very limited in what he> could teach the people of that era. As Jesus said,> (St. John 16.12-13, 25):> > I have yet many things to say unto

you, but ye> cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of> truth, is come, he will guide you into the truth:> for he shall not speak of himself: but whatsoever he> shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew> you things to come. . . These things have I spoken> unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I> shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I> shall show you plainly of the Father.> Thus, Jesus could not reveal the whole truth to> the people of that era, but promised that there> would be a time when the whole truth would be open> to everyone. But whether the people accept it or not> is another thing. > Jesus also taught that one is judged by his works> and the way they behave. This is also the same> process as found in bhakti and karma-yoga. Without> good works and sincere devotion, one cannot enter> into the kingdom of

God. Yet, we find in modern> Christianity an emphasis on faith, not on works. But> this is not upheld in the Bible, as we can see in> this verse: “But wilt thou know, O vain man, that> faith without works is dead.” (James 2.20) Jesus> never said that faith alone was all it took to enter> the promised land. The way one works is a sign of> his faith. And those that do claim allegiance to the> faith and preach in the name of Christ yet do> various duplicitous activities in private are still> bereft of attaining the favor of Christ, as stated> in Matthew (7.21-23): > Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall> enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth> the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will> say to me that day, Lord, Lord, have we not> prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast> out devils? And in thy name done many

wonderful> works? And then will I profess unto them, I never> knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.> This, therefore, is the essence of Jesus’> teachings that, as we can see, include the same> basic principles of bhakti-yoga and karma-yoga> (loving God, upholding God’s law in all our actions,> and doing good for others), which is fully explained> in the Vedic literature. Jesus never presented> anything new or invented, but taught what God had> taught and gave all credit to God, as verified as> follows:> The son can do nothing of himself, but what he> seeth the Father do. (John 5.19). . . When ye have> lifted up the son of man, then shall ye know that I> am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my> Father hath taught me, I speak these things. (John> 8.28). . . I go unto the Father, for my Father is> greater than I. (John

14.28)> In these verses we have the words of Jesus from> the Bible that explain that he taught only what God> had spoken and was not himself God, but was the son> of God the Father. Furthermore, in Bhagavad-gita> (9.17), Krishna specifically explains that He is the> Father of all living entities, and (Bg.7.6, 10.8) is> the origin of all that is material and spiritual.> Therefore, no contradiction exists in the> understanding that Jesus was a son of God, and> Krishna is the supreme Father and Creator of all. In> this way, we can see that the essence of> Christianity is the basic teachings of the Vedic> philosophy which was developed much earlier and more> deeply than that which is presently found within the> philosophy of Christianity. > > > Sarvam Krishnarpanam > Aum Tat Sath > >

Forgot the famous last words? Access your message> archive online. > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam> protection around >