Proper Process of Approaching Spiritual Master

[Guest guest]

Dear Devotees and Friends: Please accept our humble dandavats. Hare Krsna. We have uploaded 'Satsanga MP3' Satanga: April 13, 2008. Satsanga focus is

about ‘Proper Process of Approaching Spiritual Master’ A brief transcription is presented below: namo om visnupadaya krishna prestaya bhutale srimate bhaktivedanta svamin iti namine namaste sarasvati deve goura vani pracarine nirvisesa sunyavadi pascatya desa tarine om ajnana timirandasya jnananjana-salakaya caksur unmilitam yena tasmai sri-gurave namah sri caitanya mano-bhistam sthapitam yena bhu-tale svayam rupah kada mahyam dadati sva

padantikam vancha-kalpatarubhyas ca krpa sindhubhya eva ca patitanam pavanebhyo vaisnavesbhyo namo namah sri krishna caitanya prabhu nityananda sri advaita gadadhara srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrnda hare krishna hare krishna krishna krishna hare hare hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare Jay Srila Prabhupada Ki Jay… Sripad Maharaj Ki Jay… Gaura Bhakta Vrinda Ki Jay... Devotee: Puri Maharaj Ki Jay... HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: Hare Krishna Devotee: Maharaj, Subendhu Prabhu, he was telling in past that, he was having a doubt about spelling, k r s n a and K r i s h n a. But now his doubt is cleared. HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: yes. Actually k r s n a is because of the ASCII text form, we can't put the diacritics on those letters. And there is a certain standard for using the letters. With the diacritic mark for r, by itself like that would stand for an r with a dot under it. And the s, by itself would be with a dot under s. And the n also has a dot under it. So, what they mean by r with a dot under it is ri. And the s with the dot under it means means sh, and the n with the

dot under is the special way of pronouncing n as in Krishna. Devotee: Maharaj, it’s in English? HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: That’s transliteration of the Sanskrit. So really speaking, when we are doing ASCII we should write Krishna. Anyhow, just because we write that so many times, I write krsna just to make it shorter in writing. But the meaning is that they correspond to a certain protocol in the academic world, which would see that Sanskrit letters are transliterated. The Ri in Sanskrit letter is represent by R with a dot under it. And the Sh sound in Sanskrit has a special letter connected to that and that is represented in the English letter with s with a dot under it. And there are a couple of n's in Sanskrit. And so we distinguish that one, particularly under krsna's name with a dot under the n. Krishna… Devotee: Maharaj, in the 8th chapter of Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna is telling that there are different kinds of persons who are learned in vedas and they follow the practices recommended in vedic scriptures. For example, some chant the Omkar and then, there are also persons who are in renounced order of life. They are practicing celibacy etc. Krishna

is telling in this sloka: yad aksaram veda-vido vadanti visanti yad yatayo vita-ragah yad icchanto brahnacaryam caranti

tat te padam sangrahena pravaksye After telling about knowledge, Krishna also telling: ananya-cetah satatam yo mam smarati nitsayah tasyaham sulabhah partha nitya yuktasya yoginah That’s means: “for one who always remembers Me without deviation, I’m easy to obtain, O Son of Prtha, because of his constant engagement in devotional service.” So, the question is Maharaja, that means for those persons, even having Vedic knowledge but without devotion, Krishna is not available. So, I would like to have some more light on this Maharaj. What is this knowledge and what is devotion, what’s the

connection between them and what is the difference between them? HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: What verse is that in 8th chapter of Gita you are talking about, what number? Devotee: Bhagavad gita, 8.11 and 8.14. HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: So, why is the devotional necessary for knowledge, is that your question? Devotee: People are trying to have knowledge because they want to achieve some success in life, for example, they want to have salvation, or they want to achieve some different goals. But even then, Krishna is telling in the end we require devotion and then when devotion is there and to get Krishna is very

easy. Otherwise even if there is so much knowledge, without devotion Krishna is not available. HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: Knowledge means that you know. You know something. To know God, to know Krishna, that is one thing. But we can understand that is different from serving Krishna and loving Krishna. Knowing something, knowing someone. You may know some particular person, some famous person, doesn’t necessarily mean you have any affection for that person. There is no deep commitment to that person. Simply to know them is not enough to establish any kind of lasting connection with them. So Krishna doesn’t advice that we simply try to know Him. We may know Him, and think. “Well I know so many things.” And we remain puffed up with our egotistic knowledge. Acquisition of knowledge is still maintained. Knowing God does not mean that your ego has been eliminated yet. You may think oh I’m so smart; I’m so intelligent. The “I” is still there and centering on itself, "my knowledge" identifying with oneself. Then it is not pure. It is not pure transcendental. Realization is not evolved yet. Still there is some sense of the self, self-importance. Self-grounding. And when finite self-grounding is there, that is not the spiritual realm. So it is necessary to overcome that identification with the self of the finite plane that is still mundane. Just like in our Hegel religion list. There are some people who are thinking that, 'the absolute is determined by me.' ‘I can make some determination about what the absolute is from my thinking. And I am the absolute.' 'Because by my thinking, the absolute is coming, therefore I am the original source of the absolute.’ This still remains located within the 'I'. And so many philosophers believed that. It includes Kant, Fichte and Schelling who were within the so-called German idealistic camp, Idealistic world view at the end of the 1700's. These three were there. They came and were pronouncing this, enunciating this finite conception of the absolute. Maintaining their

own ground within themselves and determining the absolute from that position. Even Fichte, went so far as to say that 'God is projection of whatever we are. We can only understand the absolute only based upon what we know ourselves. We are persons, so we project that the absolute is a person. We have so many qualities, so we project those qualities on God. Like that he was thinking. And he was rightly called an atheist. Because that is atheism. And there are some participants in that list who are enunciating the same kind of thinking. And they consider themselves Christian, but actually can be considered as atheist. Because they don't consider the supremacy of God. Supremacy of the absolute. And we are grounded there. And we have no independent existence apart from that. So that is only available, that consciousness is available only to the devotee. And this is the significant mark, that distinguishes. The devotee from the materialist, non-devotee. That he gives up, the grounding within himself, and he puts his whole foundation of his being in Krishna. So this is the difference. So the devotee who is rendering devotional service that is not something that comes from the grounding within our self. It has its origin there in that world, higher world, superior world, and it descends to us. They capture us and bestow us within itself with its own service. That is Bhagavan. Bhagavan means who is attracting our service. tad vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet samit panih srotriyam brahma-nistham tad vijnanartham, to know what is tat, what is truth, what is what in the true sense. We must approach sa gurum, Sri Guru. Eva abigachet means, you must do that, there is no other choice, it’s not just a suggestion. This is the process. We must do that. Because guru is not an ordinary person. He has some had made some progress in that direction and we want to benefit from that. That would be to our maximum advantage to do that in our life. That will be the maximum benefit we can do for ourselves. We must do that therefore. If we do not do that, what happens? We would remain

in this world for millions of lifetimes. We don't know. Because we have failed to take up the activity that we must do as human beings, that Veda has instructed us, as human beings what we are to do. We are not here because we have vast intelligence. But whatever, we have some intelligence. We are not here to waste it like animals. Animals are eating, sleeping, mating and defending. And if human beings act like animals, then they are wasting the gift that they have as human life endowed with this reason. That is with rationality, to understand that there is something more to this life. And to utilize, that reason, to get freedom from the lower phase of existence. So eva abigachet means you must do that. And the samit pani means with the firewood, sacrificial wood. We must go to serve the srotiyam brahma nistham. Brahma nistham is, one who is devoted to the Brahman, the spiritual, absolute world. Nistham is completely absorbed in that. Fixed and devoted, attracted. Srothiyam means who had heard what has been revealed. Because revealed knowledge comes in Parampara, from guru parampara, from guru. So like the wood. Why is the wood there, to take to Guru. What is the sacrifice that

must be performed? Actually the disciple himself is the sacrificial wood and guru is the fire. When the wood is dry, then put it in the fire. And the heat of devotional life and the light of transcendental wisdom will come out, will be kindled. But if the wood is wet, if he still has material desire (in the disciple), then the fire won’t come so easily, it will take a long time. So both must be qualified. Qualification of guru is srothiyam brahma nistham, he has heard from the proper source, the guru parampara, and also he has his fixation. His absorption stands there, in the higher realm. That kind of person we want to, we can take benefit from, how to approach that world. Another qualification is we have to give up our material attachments. Jay Srila Prabhupada Ki Jay… Sripad Maharaj Ki Jay… Gaura Bhakta Vrinda Ki Jay... Devotee: Puri Maharaj Ki Jay... You can

hear this Transcendental Nectar of Satsanga at To see all our past posting you may visit http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/ . Timing of weekly Satsanga: 6:00 PM India time, Every Sunday. You may visit http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/about/ to know the details about joining process for the online ‘Weekly Satsangas’. All Glories all Sadhus, Guru and Vaisnavas. Thanking you. Your humble servants

Purushottama Jagannatha Das & Sushen Das

Check out the all-new face of India.

[Guest guest]

, " Sushen Das \(P. Suresh

Kumar\) " <suresh_bbsr2000 wrote:

>

> Dear Devotees and Friends:

>

>

> Please accept our humble dandavats.

>

>

> Hare Krsna.

>

>

> We have uploaded 'Satsanga MP3' Satanga: April 13, 2008.

>

>

> Satsanga focus is about `Proper Process of Approaching Spiritual

Master'

>

>

>

> A brief transcription is presented below:

>

>

>

> namo om visnupadaya krishna prestaya bhutale

> srimate bhaktivedanta svamin iti namine

> namaste sarasvati deve goura vani pracarine

> nirvisesa sunyavadi pascatya desa tarine

>

>

> om ajnana timirandasya jnananjana-salakaya

> caksur unmilitam yena tasmai sri-gurave namah

>

>

> sri caitanya mano-bhistam sthapitam yena bhu-tale

> svayam rupah kada mahyam dadati sva padantikam

>

>

> vancha-kalpatarubhyas ca krpa sindhubhya eva ca

> patitanam pavanebhyo vaisnavesbhyo namo namah

>

>

> sri krishna caitanya prabhu nityananda

> sri advaita gadadhara srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrnda

>

>

> hare krishna hare krishna krishna krishna hare hare

> hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare

>

>

> Jay Srila Prabhupada Ki Jay…

> Sripad Maharaj Ki Jay…

> Gaura Bhakta Vrinda Ki Jay...

>

>

> Devotee: Puri Maharaj Ki Jay...

>

>

> HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: Hare Krishna

>

>

> Devotee: Maharaj, Subendhu Prabhu, he was telling in past that,

he was having a doubt about spelling, k r s n a and K r i s h n a.

But now his doubt is cleared.

>

>

> HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: yes. Actually k r s n a is because

of the ASCII text form, we can't put the diacritics on those

letters. And there is a certain standard for using the letters. With

the diacritic mark for r, by itself like that would stand for an r

with a dot under it. And the s, by itself would be with a dot under

s. And the n also has a dot under it. So, what they mean by r with a

dot under it is ri. And the s with the dot under it means means sh,

and the n with the dot under is the special way of pronouncing n as

in Krishna.

>

>

> Devotee: Maharaj, it's in English?

>

>

> HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: That's transliteration of the

Sanskrit. So really speaking, when we are doing ASCII we should

write Krishna. Anyhow, just because we write that so many times, I

write krsna just to make it shorter in writing. But the meaning is

that they correspond to a certain protocol in the academic world,

which would see that Sanskrit letters are transliterated. The Ri in

Sanskrit letter is represent by R with a dot under it. And the Sh

sound in Sanskrit has a special letter connected to that and that is

represented in the English letter with s with a dot under it. And

there are a couple of n's in Sanskrit. And so we distinguish that

one, particularly under krsna's name with a dot under the n. Krishna…

>

>

> Devotee: Maharaj, in the 8th chapter of Bhagavad-Gita, Krishna

is telling that there are different kinds of persons who are learned

in vedas and they follow the practices recommended in vedic

scriptures. For example, some chant the Omkar and then, there are

also persons who are in renounced order of life. They are practicing

celibacy etc. Krishna is telling in this sloka:

>

 

>

> yad aksaram veda-

vido vadanti

> visanti yad

yatayo vita-ragah

> yad icchanto

brahnacaryam caranti

> tat te padam

sangrahena pravaksye

>

>

> After telling about knowledge, Krishna also telling:

>

>

> ananya-

cetah satatam

> yo mam

smarati nitsayah

> tasyaham

sulabhah partha

> nitya

yuktasya yoginah

>

>

> That's means: " for one who always remembers Me without

deviation, I'm easy to obtain, O Son of Prtha, because of his

constant engagement in devotional service. "

>

>

> So, the question is Maharaja, that means for those persons, even

having Vedic knowledge but without devotion, Krishna is not

available. So, I would like to have some more light on this Maharaj.

What is this knowledge and what is devotion, what's the connection

between them and what is the difference between them?

>

>

> HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: What verse is that in 8th chapter

of Gita you are talking about, what number?

>

>

> Devotee: Bhagavad gita, 8.11 and 8.14.

>

>

> HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: So, why is the devotional

necessary for knowledge, is that your question?

>

>

> Devotee: People are trying to have knowledge because they want

to achieve some success in life, for example, they want to have

salvation, or they want to achieve some different goals. But even

then, Krishna is telling in the end we require devotion and then

when devotion is there and to get Krishna is very easy. Otherwise

even if there is so much knowledge, without devotion Krishna is not

available.

>

>

> HH Bhakti Madhava Puri Swami: Knowledge means that you know. You

know something. To know God, to know Krishna, that is one thing. But

we can understand that is different from serving Krishna and loving

Krishna. Knowing something, knowing someone. You may know some

particular person, some famous person, doesn't necessarily mean you

have any affection for that person. There is no deep commitment to

that person. Simply to know them is not enough to establish any kind

of lasting connection with them. So Krishna doesn't advice that we

simply try to know Him. We may know Him, and think. " Well I know so

many things. " And we remain puffed up with our egotistic knowledge.

Acquisition of knowledge is still maintained.

>

>

> Knowing God does not mean that your ego has been eliminated yet.

You may think oh I'm so smart; I'm so intelligent. The " I " is still

there and centering on itself, " my knowledge " identifying with

oneself. Then it is not pure. It is not pure transcendental.

Realization is not evolved yet. Still there is some sense of the

self, self-importance. Self-grounding. And when finite self-

grounding is there, that is not the spiritual realm. So it is

necessary to overcome that identification with the self of the

finite plane that is still mundane.

>

>

> Just like in our Hegel religion list. There are some people who

are thinking that, 'the absolute is determined by me.' `I can make

some determination about what the absolute is from my thinking. And

I am the absolute.' 'Because by my thinking, the absolute is coming,

therefore I am the original source of the absolute.' This still

remains located within the 'I'. And so many philosophers believed

that. It includes Kant, Fichte and Schelling who were within the so-

called German idealistic camp, Idealistic world view at the end of

the 1700's. These three were there. They came and were pronouncing

this, enunciating this finite conception of the absolute.

Maintaining their own ground within themselves and determining the

absolute from that position.

>

>

> Even Fichte, went so far as to say that 'God is projection of

whatever we are. We can only understand the absolute only based upon

what we know ourselves. We are persons, so we project that the

absolute is a person. We have so many qualities, so we project those

qualities on God. Like that he was thinking. And he was rightly

called an atheist. Because that is atheism. And there are some

participants in that list who are enunciating the same kind of

thinking. And they consider themselves Christian, but actually can

be considered as atheist. Because they don't consider the supremacy

of God. Supremacy of the absolute. And we are grounded there. And

we have no independent existence apart from that. So that is only

available, that consciousness is available only to the devotee. And

this is the significant mark, that distinguishes. The devotee from

the materialist, non-devotee. That he gives up, the grounding within

himself, and he puts his whole foundation of his being in

> Krishna.

>

>

> So this is the difference. So the devotee who is rendering

devotional service that is not something that comes from the

grounding within our self. It has its origin there in that world,

higher world, superior world, and it descends to us. They capture us

and bestow us within itself with its own service. That is Bhagavan.

Bhagavan means who is attracting our service.

>

>

> tad vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet samit panih srotriyam

brahma-nistham

>

>

> tad vijnanartham, to know what is tat, what is truth, what is

what in the true sense. We must approach sa gurum, Sri Guru. Eva

abigachet means, you must do that, there is no other choice, it's

not just a suggestion. This is the process. We must do that. Because

guru is not an ordinary person. He has some had made some progress

in that direction and we want to benefit from that. That would be to

our maximum advantage to do that in our life. That will be the

maximum benefit we can do for ourselves. We must do that therefore.

>

>

> If we do not do that, what happens? We would remain in this

world for millions of lifetimes. We don't know. Because we have

failed to take up the activity that we must do as human beings, that

Veda has instructed us, as human beings what we are to do. We are

not here because we have vast intelligence. But whatever, we have

some intelligence. We are not here to waste it like animals. Animals

are eating, sleeping, mating and defending. And if human beings act

like animals, then they are wasting the gift that they have as human

life endowed with this reason. That is with rationality, to

understand that there is something more to this life. And to

utilize, that reason, to get freedom from the lower phase of

existence.

>

>

> So eva abigachet means you must do that. And the samit pani

means with the firewood, sacrificial wood. We must go to serve the

srotiyam brahma nistham. Brahma nistham is, one who is devoted to

the Brahman, the spiritual, absolute world. Nistham is completely

absorbed in that. Fixed and devoted, attracted. Srothiyam means who

had heard what has been revealed. Because revealed knowledge comes

in Parampara, from guru parampara, from guru. So like the wood. Why

is the wood there, to take to Guru. What is the sacrifice that must

be performed? Actually the disciple himself is the sacrificial wood

and guru is the fire. When the wood is dry, then put it in the fire.

And the heat of devotional life and the light of transcendental

wisdom will come out, will be kindled. But if the wood is wet, if he

still has material desire (in the disciple), then the fire won't

come so easily, it will take a long time. So both must be qualified.

Qualification of guru is srothiyam brahma nistham,

> he has heard from the proper source, the guru parampara, and also

he has his fixation. His absorption stands there, in the higher

realm. That kind of person we want to, we can take benefit from, how

to approach that world. Another qualification is we have to give up

our material attachments.

>

>

>

> Jay Srila Prabhupada Ki Jay…

> Sripad Maharaj Ki Jay…

> Gaura Bhakta Vrinda Ki Jay...

>

>

> Devotee: Puri Maharaj Ki Jay...

>

>

>

> You can hear this Transcendental Nectar of Satsanga at

>

>

>

> To see all our past posting you may visit

http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/ .

>

>

>

> Timing of weekly Satsanga: 6:00 PM India time, Every Sunday.

>

>

> You may visit http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/about/ to know the

details about joining process for the online `Weekly Satsangas'.

>

>

>

>

>

> All Glories all Sadhus, Guru and Vaisnavas.

>

>

> Thanking you.

>

>

> Your humble servants

> Purushottama Jagannatha Das &

> Sushen Das

>

>

>

>

>

> Check out the all-new face of India.

>