Dialogue between a Bhakta and Atheist....( Part - 4 )

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Pranams to Bhagavan Sri Krishna and Bhaktas ,

Jawahar ( Atheist ) : O Ram ! If Bhagavan is All-merciful, if He is an ocean of mercy, why should there be pain and disease in this world ?

Ram ( Bhakta) : Pain is in a way , a good thing in this world. It is an eye-opener. It is a blessing in disguise. It infuses mercy in your heart and turns your mind towards Bhagavan. It develops your will-power or power of endurance. It forces you to find out the way of escape from the clutches of *Maya* ( illusion) or the thralldom of matter.

Jawahar : Why should there be Evil in this world? Can Bhagavan not create a world with pure bliss only ? Why should there be mixture of pleasure and pain ? Does it not go against His Omnipotent nature ?

Ram : This universe is a mixture of good and evil. This is a relative plane. You cannot expect pure, unalloyed happiness here. You can find pure bliss in your innermost Self or the Brahman form of Bhagavan only . Evil is not a distinct entity. Good and Evil are the obverse and reverse sides of the same coin. Evil exists to glorify good . What is evil for one is good for another. A Rogue is a Saint of the future. If you keep him in the company of a Saint, he will become a veritable Mahatma. Have you not studied the life of the dreaded dacoit Ratnakar . He became Rishi Valmiki when he came in contact with great Maharishis. The body of a man is the result of good and evil actions. Therefore, he should reap the fruits of his good and evil actions, viz. , pleasure and pain.

Jawahar : O Ram! Thank you very much, indeed. My mind is slightly turned towards your side by your impressive instructions. Please give some strong proofs for the existence of Bhagavan. I am led to believe now that the Supreme Intelligence of Power governs this universe.

Ram : Bhagavan is *Svatah-Siddha* ( self-proved). The Self is the basis of the action of providing. Therefore, it is evident before the action of proving itself. It is therefore impossible to deny it. In denying existence of Bhagavan, you deny your own existence, which is absurd. Bhagavan is the basis of all pre-suppositions, demonstrations and all notions.

Jawahar : I have understood this point well. Doubtless the Self cannot be demonstrated. But it is possible to infer His existence from certain empirical facts. Please furnish me with those facts. Then I will have perfect conviction.

Ram : The existence of Bhagavan is known on the ground of Him being the self of everyone, because everyone is conscious of the existence of his Self. There is an inherent feeling in everybody. `I exist-Atham Asmi '. Man never thinks `I am not `. This self of whose existence all are conscious is Bhagavan .

Jawahar : Well said, indeed! I can understand this point very well. It appears to me nicely. Please teach me further in this direction.

Ram : Close your eyes and imagine for a moment that you are dead.

Jawahar : Yes. I have closed my eyes now. I now imagine that I am dead.

Ram : What do you find now ?

Jawahar : I imagine that my dead body is lying down on the ground as a corpse and I am witnessing the dead body.

Ram : You can never imagine of your annihilation. You can never think that you do not exist after the physical body is thrown away. This itself clearly proves that you are always the witnessing subject ( Sakshi , Drashta).

Jawahar : This also convinces me to some extent . Please give me some more practical illustrations.

Ram : O Jawhar ! Here is a very practical illustration. You dream sometimes that you are dead and that your relatives are weeping . Even in that supposed death-state you see and hear them weeping. This clearly indicates that even after seeming death, life really persists. This also proves that immortality is an inherent attribute of the soul. You exist even after the physical sheath is thrown out. That existence is Bhagavan's Brahman form or Atma .

Jawahar : Ram, this is really a wonderful illustration. My doubts about the existence of Bhagavan is dwindling. Please give me some instructions from the experiences of daily life .

Ram : A certain lady had a fall from the third storey of her house. Underneath there was a bed of sharp angular stories. She would have received serious injuries, but she was miraculously saved. She herself expressed, "I actually felt the warm embrace of some individual hands. Some mysterious power saved me". Instances like this are not uncommon in daily life.

Jawahar : This also convinces me to some extent . Please give me some more practical illustrations.

Ram : O Jawhar ! Here is a very practical illustration. You dream sometimes that you are dead and that your relatives are weeping. Even in that supposed death-state, you see and hear them weeping. This clearly indicates that even after seeming death, life really persists. This also proves that immortality is an inherent attribute of the soul. You exist even after the physical sheath is thrown out. That existence is Bhagavan's Brahman form or Atma .

Jawahar : May I hear another illustration ?

Ram : You find that even the world's best doctors fail to cure a dying being. You might have also heard of many instances where patients ailing from the worst type of diseases are cured miraculously, where even the ablest doctors have declared the case to be hopeless. This itself is a clear proof that there is the Divine Hand behind all cure.

Jawahar : Can you illustrate this though the theory of Karma ?

Ram : Some people die when they are eighty years old; some die when they are in the womb; some die at twenty; some at forty . What is the cause for this variation ? Who has fixed the span of life for all ? This clearly proves that there is the theory of Karma, that there is one Omniscient Bhagavan who is the Dispenser of the fruits of actions of the Jivas. And it is He who fixed the span of the life of the Jivas in accordance with the their nature of Karma or action. He knows the exact relation between Karmas and their fruits. As Karma is `Jada' of insentient, it certainly cannot dispense with the fruits of their actions.

Bhagavan Krishna says in Bhagavad-Gita ( Sloka 7.12- 14) ;

" Everything resulting from the three qualities Sattva [goodness], Rajas [passion] and Tamas [ignorance], are manifested from My *Yoga-Maya* . I am not controlled by these qualities or *Yoga-Maya* , but they are under My control .Deluded by my *Yoga-Maya*, the whole world does not know Me who is standing separate and shining brightly .My illusionary-energy *Yoga-maya*, is difficult to overcome. But, Bhaktas who have surrendered unto Me can easily overcome the illusion of *Yoga-Maya*. "

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya

SriKrishnaDasa Rajeev